Senator: Deal reached to avoid default and open government

Senate leaders announced last-minute agreement Wednesday to avert a threatened Treasury default and reopen the government after a partial, 16-day shutdown. Congress raced to pass the measure by day's end.
Associated Press
Oct 16, 2013

 

The Dow Jones industrial average soared on the news that the threat of default was fading, flirting with a 200-point gain in morning trading.

"This is a time for reconciliation," said Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid of the agreement he had forged with the GOP leader, Sen. Mitch McConnell of Kentucky.

McConnell said that with the agreement, Republicans had sealed a deal to have spending in one area of the budget decline for two years in a row, adding, "we're not going back."

One prominent tea party lawmaker, Sen. Ted Cruz of Texas, said he would oppose the plan, but not seek to delay its passage.

That was a key concession that signaled a strong possibility that both houses could act by day's end. That, in turn, would allow President Barack Obama could sign the bill into law ahead of the Thursday deadline that Treasury Secretary Jacob Lew had set for action to raise the $16.7 trillion debt limit.

Officials said the proposal called for the Treasury to have authority to continue borrowing through Feb. 7, and the government would reopen through Jan. 15.

There was no official comment from the White House, although congressional officials said administration aides had been kept fully informed of the negotiations.

While the emerging deal could well meet resistance from conservatives in the Republican-controlled House, the Democratic Leader, Rep. Nancy Pelosi of California, has signaled she will support the plan and her rank and file is expected to vote for it in overwhelming numbers.

That raised the possibility that more Democrats than Republicans would back it, potentially causing additional problems for House Speaker John Boehner as he struggles to manage his tea party-heavy majority.

Boehner and the House Republican leadership met in a different part of the Capitol to plan their next move. A spokesman, Michael Steel, said afterward that no decision had been made "about how or when a potential Senate agreement could be voted on in the House."

The developments came one day before the deadline Lew had set for Congress to raise the current $16.7 trillion debt limit. Without action by lawmakers, he said, Treasury could not be certain it had the ability to pay bills as they come due.

In addition to raising the debt limit, the proposal would give lawmakers a vote to disapprove the increase. Obama would have the right to veto their opposition, ensuring he would prevail.

House and Senate negotiators would be appointed to seek a deficit-reduction deal. At the last minute, Reid and McConnell jettisoned a plan to give federal agencies increased flexibility in coping with the effects of across-the-board cuts. Officials said that would be a topic for the negotiations expected to begin shortly.

Despite initial Republican demands for the defunding of the health care law known as Obamacare, the pending agreement makes only one modest change in the program. It requires individuals and families seeking subsidies to purchase coverage to verify their incomes before qualifying.

There were some dire warnings from the financial world a day after the Fitch credit rating agency said it was reviewing its AAA rating on U.S. government debt for possible downgrade.

John Chambers, chairman of Standard & Poor's Sovereign Debt Committee, told "CBS This Morning" on Wednesday that a U.S. government default on its debts would be "much worse than Lehman Brothers," the investment firm whose 2008 collapse led to the global financial crisis.

Billionaire investor Warren Buffett told CNBC he doesn't think the federal government will fail to pay its bills, but "if it does happen, it's a pure act of idiocy."

Rep. Steve King, R-Iowa, a tea party favorite, said he was not worried about the prospect of a U.S. default.

"We are going to service our debt," he told CNN. "But I am concerned about all the rhetoric around this ....I'm concerned that it will scare the markets."

Aides to Reid and McConnell said the two men had resumed talks, including a Tuesday night conversation, and were hopeful about striking an agreement that could pass both houses.

It was expected to mirror a deal the leaders had neared Monday. That agreement was described as extending the debt limit through Feb. 7, immediately reopening the government fully and keeping agencies running until Jan. 15 — leaving lawmakers clashing over the same disputes in the near future.

It also set a mid-December deadline for bipartisan budget negotiators to report on efforts to reach compromise on longer-term issues like spending cuts. And it likely would require the Obama administration to certify that it can verify the income of people who qualify for federal subsidies for medical insurance under the 2010 health care law.

But that emerging Senate pact was put on hold Tuesday, an extraordinary day that highlighted how unruly rank-and-file House Republicans can be, even when the stakes are high. Facing solid Democratic opposition, Boehner tried in vain to write legislation that would satisfy GOP lawmakers, especially conservatives.

Boehner crafted two versions of the bill, but neither made it to a House vote because both faced certain defeat. Working against him was word during the day from the influential group Heritage Action for America that his legislation was not conservative enough — a worrisome threat for many GOP lawmakers whose biggest electoral fears are of primary challenges from the right.

The last of Boehner's two bills had the same dates as the emerging Senate plan on the debt limit andshutdown.

But it also blocked federal payments for the president, members of Congress and other officials to help pay for their health care coverage. And it prevented the Obama administration from shifting funds among different accounts — as past Treasury secretaries have done — to let the government keep paying bills briefly after the federal debt limit has been reached.

Boehner's inability to produce a bill that could pass his own chamber likely means he will have to let the House vote on a Senate compromise, even if that means it would pass with strong Democratic and weak GOP support. House Republican leaders have tried to avoid that scenario for fear that it would threaten their leadership, and some Republicans worried openly about that.

"Of all the damage to be done politically here, one of the greatest concerns I have is that somehow John Boehner gets compromised," said Sen. Lindsey Graham, R-S.C., a former House member and a Boehner supporter.

With the default clock ticking ever louder, it was possible the House might vote first on a plan produced by Senate leaders. For procedural reasons, that could speed the measure's trip through Congress by removing some parliamentary barriers Senate opponents might erect.

The strains of the confrontation were showing among GOP lawmakers.

"It's time to reopen the government and ensure we don't default on our debt," Rep. Jaime Herrera Beutler, R-Wash., said in a written statement. "I will not vote for poison pills that have no chance of passing the Senate or being signed into law."

Comments

There you go again

This is no time to celebrate. Nothing was really accomplished except the proverbial "kick the can down the road." I mean, it adds a requirement to verify income before receiving Obamacare. Who's lamebrain idea was it to LEAVE IT OUT in the first place! Pathetic...

yeswee's picture
yeswee

Start working at home with Google! Its by-far the best job Ive had. Last Wednesday I got a brand new BMW since getting a check for $6474. I began this 8-months ago and immediately was bringing home at least $77 per hour. Useful Reference http://ow.ly/pAu07
WORK LESS EARN MORE

meowmix

Well Cruz, hope you enjoyed your 15 minutes--now, back you go to obscurity and since you're headed that way, take Palin with you.

Contango

Re: "Well Cruz,"

Don’t believe that you’ve heard the last of him.

Enjoy your brief celebration.

If you ran your household finances like the govt. operates it's fiscal house, you would have declared bankruptcy long ago.

About the only thing that it can do that you can't is print money.

abigbear

Contango
re:"well Cruz"
they dont run a household they use the working peoples money and empty wal-marts shelves

deertracker

Cya Cruz, wouldn't wanna be ya

Contango

Re: "Cruz,"

Don't worry your little Obamabot head.

He's in office until Jan. 2019.

rezzy

Meowmix? Really? Enough said

Darwin's choice

Cruz/Palin 2016

meowmix

I'm with you! A pure Democrat dream team! lolololol

Donegan

Now they can get back to paying the non-essential personel that do nothing other than pad the unemployment rolls and waste more money we do not have!

Kramer

This country is a joke. So people that stand up and say enough is enough with running up debt and spending us into bankruptcy are labeled arsonists and terrorists and are blamed for the government shutting down. I think I get it.

donutshopguy

Hope my kids and grandkids are ready for the future. Lets just pass on this enormous debt to the next generation. How's that for taking responsibility ?

mikesee

Kramer you are right! The democraps are leading this country down the highway to he11. They do not care whether or not our country can repay it's debts.

I encourage every working american to quit their jobs today and enroll in the gov'ts freebie handout programs! Why work hard for something when you can sit at home on your lazy a$$ and get free money from the gov't for food, healthcare, monies for utilities and housing? You can then use whatever cash you have or make from selling your foodstamp food for smokes, beer, iphones, hair extensions, nail jobs and drugs.

This country is becoming so f'd up.

The Bizness

I do not think that democrats want to give out freebies to people that don't need them, they want to have programs in place for people that are having a hard time.

That being said, I voted for Obama in the previous two elections, but am more of a moderate (except on environmental issues, there I am very liberal) and I think that we should run a balanced budget, and reform social programs, and tax codes.

I think if we didn't need the stimulous package - and the resulting anger from the tea party because of it - that we would have a functioning government that could meet half way and have a balanced budget by now. The tea party has gotten in the way of meeting in the middle for the last 4 years, and that is the reason we are in the mess we are in. If we could cut spending, and raise taxes we would be better off. Instead we cut spending, but did nothing on revenue. Our deficit, is currently shrinking, and spending has dropped since President Bush left office.

More work is left to do but to say the democrats are alone in the blame for this is insane.

meowmix

Bizness, my comment below was not directed towards you. It was a matter of who hit "enter" first. I agree with you!

Contango

Re: "Our deficit, is currently shrinking,"

Govt. figures lie, and govt. liars figure.

A more accurate barometer is the debt-to-GDP ratio.

"The percentage of debt is higher than any point since around World War II, and twice the percentage it was at the end of 2007,"

http://www.marketwatch.com/story...

Contango

Re: "If we could cut spending, and raise taxes we would be better off."

Entitlement non-discretionary spending would have to be cut exponentially and taxes would have to be raised astronomically on EVERYONE in order to balance our country's fiscal mess.

The last balanced federal budget was during the Eisenhower Admin.

http://taxvox.taxpolicycenter.or...

The Bizness

A 17-18% flat tax rate would balance the budget

Contango

Re: "A 17-18% flat tax rate,"

Dream on. The Dems like progressive income tax rates. Ain't gonna happen.

Dr. Information

A flat tax would be awesome but it wont happen because the Dems will cry its not fair for the middle of the class and lower to have to pay taxes. Heck, most of them get refunds and don't pay taxes at all. What kind of government do we have were we give out refunds when someone doesn't pay a single dime in taxes? The answer. A crooked one.

I agree, its both parties fault, but the Democratic leadership want to take non of the blame, hence constantly blaming Bush and everyone else even though they are the ones in charge.

A balanced budget you say, well dream on kiddo. It won't happen for one reason. It would require major changes in the way we run this country and the left wont allow that.

mikesee

Nice try Bizness but you are so wrong about "Our deficit, is currently shrinking, and spending has dropped since President Bush left office"!!

Consider the following regarding our debt under the Obama administration (info from factcheck.org):

1. As of Oct. 4, the amount the Treasury owed to the public was just under $11.94 trillion, an increase of 89.3 percent since the day Obama first became president.

2. Critics of federal debt levels often cite another, larger figure for total federal debt, which includes money the federal government owes to itself through such devices as the Social Security and Medicare trust funds. That total debt figure stood at just under $16.75 trillion on Oct. 4. That’s an increase of 57.6 percent since Obama was first sworn in.

3. However, the Obama administration recently projected an annual deficit of $750 billion in the fiscal year that began Oct. 1, and $626 billion the year after. At that rate, the debt owed to the public will more than double during the Obama presidency.

Did you notice the word "increase" in the first 2 and double in the 3rd?

Not one of the 3 examples bode well for Obama, democrats or taxpayers. Not only is our gov't spending more this year it is coming off of projections for record breaking dollar amounts of taxes being paid/collected.

The problem (dem + gop) is that for 55 of the last 60 years our gov't has spent more than it has collected! There is NO person or business that could survive with that statistic.

The Bizness

http://mobile.businessweek.com/a...

Debt and deficit are different. If you read my comments you will see I want a balanced budget, but to act like the democrats are solely to blame is crazy. We need reforms.

mikesee

If you noticed I threw a bone to both the dems & gop.

If you really look at the definition of debt and deficit you will notice that there is not really much difference. But one first must have a deficit (deficiency) to have a debt (something owed). Either way you look at it the gov't is screwing the crap out of the taxpayers with the out of control spending which has been ramped up during Obama's tenure.

The Hero Zone's picture
The Hero Zone

The Bizness, I may not agree with some aspects of your posts all the time but I will tell you that I wish there were more people who posted like you coming from a moderate/liberal standpoint. Your posts challenge me to think and understand things instead of feeling like an inferior, generally-conservative (maybe not on traditional social issues) know-nothing. I respect that, and you, even on the points where we may differ. Thank you. If I could give you a "Like" I would.

meowmix

There is something wrong with you. With the exception of 2 1/2 years when I stayed home to care for my newborn (while my husband worked I might add) I have worked my entire life from the time I was age 19. The foolish people who think the democratic party consists of soley people who receive public assistance are just that--foolish. Why don't you throw out your broken record and say something intelligent for a change.

mikesee

Here you go meowmix. How do we fix a $16.7 trillion dollar deficit with more people than ever not working and our gov't giving out more dollars than ever in entitlements? There is your intelligent question for the day hopefully you can give me an intelligent answer.

Kramer

That's all well and good but aside from the "let's all help each other good vibes", the fact remains that we're on the brink of financial collapse. There is no money left. When 10% of the population "needed" assistance we could still float. When 50% of the population "needs" assistance we're sunk. The laws of economics and physics do not care about your well intentioned programs.

deertracker

It is a well known fact that red states receive the most gov't assistance!

http://www.policymic.com/article...

abigbear

becoming has passed it is already

meowmix

How about you looking up to see just exactly WHERE the money is being spent???? Defense budget is astronomical. The actual percentage of the budget that goes towards the poor is nothing in comparison!

Kramer

How bout this, I'll agree to cut defense by 20% if you agree to cut entitlement spending by 20%. If that were to happen we'd dang near have a balanced budget.

The Bizness

I would love to agree with that if you could show me a way to keep assistance away from people that abuse it yet still have easy access for people that need it.

Contango

Re: "keep assistance away from people that abuse it yet still have easy access for people that need it."

Proper management and oversight of the programs instead of "pay and chase."

'Course that would take a legion more of highly compensated bureaucrats in order to police it.

Why do you think that SSDI is soon set to go bankrupt? Flagrant waste, fraud and abuse.

http://articles.washingtonpost.c...

Here's JUST one for ya:

"Social Security judge accused of disability scheme"

http://www.caribbeanbusinesspr.c...

mikesee

Like that cut thing Kramer.

The Bizness

Social Security, and Medicare/Medicaid, are slightly more than Defense, but congress is too scare to tackle those.

The Hero Zone's picture
The Hero Zone

And it is disappointing that what you said is absolutely true. These are programs that require more attention than congress can give because it is so burdened with everything else it does.

mikesee

Bizness. I agree that the lawmakers are to scared to tackle this. I read an article months ago regarding disability in England and the fraud that went with it. Apparently, the gov't over there required all who were receiving disability to be re-evaluated. If I remember right about 38% of the people on disability no longer qualified. Just imagine if our gov't would do this!

Dr. Information

Now this is some good conversation without the constant 3-4 getting on here throwing random opinions out as facts and name calling.

Kramer

Ultimately the problem comes down to this, if you eliminate the frauds and wastes then you'll lose those people as voters. No good self-serving politician will do that except an evil tea bagger. Democrats don't really care if there is fraud and waste because those are just automatic Dem votes.

Dr. Information

Kramer, HOMERUN. When will both sides wake up and realize that the leaders only care about getting reelected. Thats it. They talk out their butt and make promises they can't keep.

The only reason the tea party was created was because there are more and more hard working people sick of the abuse, lies and down right laziness taking over this country. Why did they appeal to the conservatives? Because they are the party slightly similar to their beliefs.

Contango

Re: "if you eliminate the frauds and wastes then you'll lose those people as voters."

Currently a little over 50% of Americans receive some kind of money from DC be it SS, or welfare.

Once the Progressives get universal health care, no one will vote against his or her own self-interest and they will remain in power until bankruptcy (or which ever comes first).

H*ll, 60% of Medicaid spending is on nursing home care. Wait until the 78 million baby boomers land in 'em! They'll bankrupt this country.

Nursing home care costs currently are around $80K per yr.

https://www.metlife.com/mmi/rese...

Kramer

Exactly. It's Atlas Shrugged played out before our eyes. Either that or we end up split in to two countries.

Contango

Re: "split in to two countries."

When my family business is done here, I'm heading for TX.

Wanna be on the "right" side this time. :)

Let the Yankees tax, borrow, print and spend themselves to death.

The New World Czar

Same applies here, my cousin's willing to sell off the front 5 of his ranch. First Shiner Bock is on me.

Contango

Re: "First Shiner Bock is on me,"

Thanks.

I use it in my shrimp boil.

meowmix

Geez Contango-- you're really going to move to Texas??? Well then by golly I'm even more for that state being allowed to secede!

Contango

Re: "secede!"

Ain't gonna happen. But the jobs keep flowing there:

http://gmauthority.com/blog/2013...

GM's moving production from OH and MI to make it happen.

deertracker

Those minimum wage jobs keep flowing there! You left out that little detail!

Contango

In case any of you missed it:

"Federal Housing Administration to Take $1.7 Billion Subsidy"

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/20...

Did you know that the govt. hands out zero down payment home loans?

They take the manditory 3% down payment and roll it into the mortgage payment - voila! Zero down payment loans.

Yea, that scheme worked out well during the housing crisis didn't it?

Dr. Information

Man its scary that they didn't learn the first time.

thinkagain's picture
thinkagain

So what are Progressives progressing towards? Total dependency on an overwhelmingly bloated government.

"if we can but prevent the government from wasting the labours of the people, under the pretense of taking care of them, they must become happy.” Thomas Jefferson

Contango

Re: "Total dependency on an overwhelmingly bloated government."

And it'll be like the joke in the defunct Soviet Union where everyone was an employee of the govt. :

They pretend to pay us and we pretend to work.

The evidence of our govt.'s bankrupt and corrupt fiscal situation will be laid bare during the next economic downturn and even the blind may see.

It may not be next yr., but many are predicting that 2015 will be the yr. when the SHTF.

deertracker

Please make sure you are in front of the fan in 2015!

be for real

Have everybody pay 15% including the rich.budget would balance

Dr. Information

The rich (top 10%) pay in yearly roughly 90% of the IRS's sent out bills. Which means the rest of this country needs to start pitching in 15% with no refunds. Amazing how people think the rich pay nothing. Amazing.

The Big Dog's back

The way you right wingnuts are talking, you're ready to raise your taxes to cover all the bills your generation ran up so your kids and grandkids won't have to pay for it. Congratulations, it's about time for you take responsibility for YOUR bills.

Contango

Re: "it's about time for you take responsibility for YOUR bills."

The "responsible" thing would be to allow your health care benefits to be taxed and don't allow your employer to deduct 'em.

Also eliminate state and local income and property tax deductions.

High tax states should pay their "fair share."

The Big Dog's back

I'll pay more taxes as soon as they tax stock transactions, and put the Capital Gains tax as income tax.

Dr. Information

Most people's capital gains tax is retirement money. I know you think everyone who invests is just filthy rich but that is not even close to being true.

mikesee

Doggie I already take responsiblity for my bills. Maybe the able bodied people drawing entitlements can pay a portion of theirs???????

deertracker

CAPITULATION......GOP style!

Contango

Re: "CAPITULATION......GOP style!"

Yep! Congratulations, your SSDI, Medicaid and SNAP benefits are safe until next yr.

deertracker

Yours too!

Contango

Re: "Yours too!"

Good to see that you've FINALLY admitted it.

You DO know that SSDI is scheduled to go bankrupt in 2016 don't you?

deertracker

You do know one has to be disabled to receive SSDI? You might qualify with that drinking problem of yours!

Contango

Re: "disabled to receive SSDI"

In your case fraud works too.

deertracker

Shhhhh! It's a secret!

Gardenman

I think some people can dream all they want about Cruz/Palin 2016 but it is no more than a dream. The country is "sick" of Cruz and his buddies and the vast majority of voters have had it with these ultra conservatives. Palin has been a joke since she first come to national attention when McCain chose her for VP. I mean honestly would you ever want Sarah Palin having the nuclear launch codes to start a nuclear war that could destroy the entire world.......that is shear panic for all of us.

These ultra conservatives are probably dedicated Americans but they have gone at this in such a terrible way.....they have done more damage to themselves and their cause than what they ever wanted to inflict on the other side.

This may well be be the beginning of the end for the ultra conservative movement. They will have to battle in the next election not just against Democrats in their district but against moderate Republicans.

Cruz and company have hurt real people and cost them jobs and the loss of pay and unfair hardships. America can no longer stand for this kind of actions in its legislators and these people have got to be tossed out at the next election.

Kramer

I'm not sick of Cruz at all. In fact, he's the closest thing we have left in DC to a founding father. By the way, if you leftists/statists were around in 1776 you would be talking the exact same trash about those "terrorist, arsonists" George Washington and Thomas Jefferson. You worship at the government altar much like colonials that sympathized with the King.

Gardenman

I think you seriously have to ask if this is the way you want to run government. Do you want to be in a situation where you have been hurt by this and in January we could go thru this again. This is no way to run a company, a business or guess what a government.

I fail to understand how you think this is all fine and not a problem when your neighbors are put thru this kind of pain only because they chose to work for the federal government. It you are fine with that then please tell upfront the men and women being deployed for foreign soil wearing the uniform of a United State military employee I am in favor of you not being paid, feed, supplied with equipment, etc. if I do not get my way in Congress. Please be upfront with them before you put them in harms way.

In all the differences in the Vietnam war or more recently the Iraq War under GWB did any congressman or group of congressman shut down the government and threaten not to pay, supply, support, equip, etc our troops on those battle grounds unless they got their way. Yet this is just what Tom Cruz and company are doing with the lives of American soldiers today. This can not be permitted to continue and these congressman have got to be voted out of office at the next election. And I think many will be.

Kramer

Your premise is that Cruz caused the shutdown. I could just as easily say to you that the Dems caused this be refusing to agree to some more budget cuts and/or delaying the Obamacare mandate.

You mean to tell me that Democrats love their obamacare so much that they would shut down the government and default rather than cut their spending a little and delay the mandate??

I guess it's all how you look at it isn't it Garden??

Kramer

and Garden, do you really want to make the case that the Dems are operating the government like a business? Besides the Repubs sent legislation to the senate that would pay the military and the Dems refused to vote on it. I guess that means they want to cheat the troops, right?

Gardenman

Cruz is one who has orchestrated this in the Senate and has tried his best to control it in the House as well. There is no reason to delay the Affordable Care Act in this way. This is a law. It went thru all the procedures of a bill was voted in the affirmative in the House and the Senate, signed by the President and challeged in the highest court in the country and was ruled as constitutional. So after all happening a few who legislators who do not like the bill say well we will not fund it.....ub fact we will shut down the entire US Government to get our way. That is not the way it is done unless you subscribe to the ultra conservative philosophy.

There are those who probably do not like Social Security, or Medicare or thousands of other programs but is this the way to change it? Absolutely not. You know that I know that and Cruz and all the other ultra conservative now that....yet they are willing to shut down the government and go to the extent of not paying or suppling our miiitary troops in a war halfway around the world. To save the ire of even those in thier own party they want to send piece meal funding to the the President. No that is not the way we run a government either.

As said by folks of both parties you can not and must not hold a country hostage just because you don't agree with the legislation that have been voted into law. There is a process for that and we all know that and by gosh Cruz and company knows it too!!! AND when it finally comes down to the wire of the country not paying it's bills and puts us into default what does Cruz and company do they finally go out without a wimper. They have enough sense to know if they take this country over the brink they are done for sure.

I think the ultra conservatives have actually given themselves a deadly blow if not a fatal one. There are so many people in both parties that are fed up and have had it with these ultra conservatives. They may well have set the wheels in motion teir demise. I think you will see many of these ultra conservaties lose office in 2014 in the House and Senate elections.

America has never in all it's existence been held hostage by a small group of ciizens with a different idealogy. It did not this time and I am confident it will not in the future.

mikesee

Gardenman, do you think this is any way to run a gov't? Not being accountable to the taxpayers? Spending with reckless abandon with no possible way to ever pay the bill? You are right when you say this is no way to run a company or business because they WOULD HAVE BEEN CLOSED DUE TO BANKRUPTCY!!!

Dr. Information

Gardenman must of missed the last 30 years when this country (especially Obama) has ran up debt to the point where we aren't collecting enough to cover what we are spending year after year. I suppose you think that is a great business model huh?

Contango

Re: "America can no longer stand for this kind of actions in its legislators,"

So you're happy to get back to taxing, borrowing, printing and spend, spend, spending our way to bankruptcy huh?

The Big Dog's back

pooh, how much did the shutdown cost?

deertracker

crickets, crickets, crickets!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Contango

Re: "crickets, crickets, crickets!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!"

Better make an appt. with your Medicaid physician if you're hearing crickets from this blog.

deertracker

I did! He told me to take a big gulp of Kessler's and I'll be just like pooh! I fired that guy!

KURTje

Like the flat tax for all, no exceptions no loopholes.

The Hero Zone's picture
The Hero Zone

^^THIS^^

Dr. Information

Dems wont fly for it and neither will the suckers in this country. When you hand feed millions of people and take the hand away........well you get the point.

The New World Czar

No spending cuts, kick the can for a few more months. Nothing accomplished.

Darwin's choice

Coasterfan,
I wanted to let you know that earlier today I received my "Obamacare enrollment packet” from the White House.It contained:· An aspirin and a band-aid.· An 'Obama Hope & Change' bumper sticker· A 'Bush's Fault' yard sign· A 'Blame Republicans first, then anybody and everybody' poster· A 'Tax the Rich' banner· An application for unemployment and a free cellphone· An application for food stamps· A prayer rug· A letter assigning my debt to my grandchildren· And lastly, a coupon for a machine that blows smoke up my ass.

Gardenman

Study that enrollment packet very carefully, think very hard about it and then go back and look at it again and think some more about it..........after you have done that think about Mitt Romney and Paul Ryan at this time last year. They were the hope, the future, the way and the life for the Republicans. Well one year later Mitt is pretty much forgotten, Paul Ryan and his fellow Republicans in the House just shut down the government for the past 2 1/2 weeks. Now there is a leader for you a guy that wanted to be Vice President just voted to shut down the government he wanted to lead a year ago. Then there is Barack Obama,,,,,well he is still the President and he calls the White House home and he just stood firm and would not negotiate ACA with the Republicans or kneel to other Republicans demands. AND yes, the Affordable Health Care Act is still law the President did not negotiate it away for Americans because the Republicans did not like it.

You keep criticizing the President as that is your right, you keep makes jokes of Presient Obama, you keep being a Republican and having these crazy ideas like truomg to have the US default on its bills and you think that is somehow a good thing. You are making a mockery of the statement "true faith and credit of the United States" a joke to every county in the world. While all that is gong on President Obama wil continue to lead the United States for which he was elected to do last November and I might add winning rather handily over your Republican challengers.

By the way if you Republicans ever have a desire to lead this country I sure would try to clean up on the job performance over the past few weeks for you folks have done a terrible job of running the House of Representatives and oh my gosh you want to run the country from the White House. It took the Senate lead by the Democrats to save the country from going over the cliff and in default. Senate now has the government back open from the Republicans shutting it down, I guess because they did not get thier way and they said well we will shut it down then. But you go ahead make fun of President Obama and the Democrats and the rest of us will keep leading the country for you Republicans sure can't do the job....we see that in your performance clearly every day. The polls are all quite brutal to the Republicans over this latest mess.........you all have a good November 2014.....you are going to need it.......If I was Republican I sure would be dreading next November it won't be pretty.

The Hero Zone's picture
The Hero Zone

Dear Gardenman,

Don't get me wrong, I am very bitter at many Republicans but to imply that Democrats are the solution to all problems (and clean as the wind-driven snow) is absurd. Their arrogance and self-perceived superiority is just as frustrating as the floundering mealy-mouths on the right.

Do you ever question your party? If not, you should try it. Questions lead to answers and understanding. Here are some, perhaps rhetorical, I have:

The Senate saved us eh? It only took, what?, about one trillion more dollars to have us limp along until January? Oh yeah, there's some hard core leadership, the stuff of legends. The shutdown? How mature of the President and others in his party to call Americans arsonists, hostage-takers, and the like while demanding a CR (not a budget) that doesn't even bother to look at where the money is going. That just oozes sensitivity, outreach, and wanting to bring people into an understanding like the enlightened teacher he is supposed to be. The default? How odd it is that the President never actually explained to his party let alone the 310+ million people he is supposed to lead that the only way that would happen is if he let it happen on purpose. The ACA? Why doesn't our President have #000-000-001 on his account number? Where was his public signing of himself and his family on day one in this service? What about Congress for that matter?

So, with all due respect, don't go extolling the virtues of Democrats as if they are somehow superior to the mush-pit of Republicans in Washington D.C. It's that kind of snide presumption that turns away reasonable, independent people from entertaining Democrat ideas. And I will say again that the Republicans are vomit-inducing too. Funny though, I can't say in my time here actively reading stories and posting that I have seen any elephant-flag-waving Republicans that so fervently sling sideways remarks at those who dare question the agenda/leadership.

I will say this much, at least the Democrats pander to their base, the Republicans seem to actually alienate it. So I guess they have that going where nobody actually asks their leadership questions or challenges them. That's a perk. I'd rather be a GOB in the Democratic Party any day with obedience like that!

Democrats are NOT immune from November 2014 either and blinding yourself with comments like this will not help you from helping them see that there is a better way to rule us little people. The masses. The proles. You know, we who must be dumb by not registering as a Democrat. At least the Republicans have a group/faction that is attempting to pull their establishments' heads out of their hind quarters. They have a group that is willing to try and actually explain things to people.

Where is the Democrat counterpart? Who is their Great Explainer? Their educator? Funny, all I have heard are second-grade name callings and wild, dire threats. That's from those in elected office, not the posters here though some days what's the difference? Are your comments even supposed to convince people to join the party to which you subscribe?

In summary as I have been told on many occasions I write too much:

Great, we get a Republican dad who is an impotent, bipolar drunk and an absolute selfish, browbeating shrew of a mom who spends all the family money on herself claiming she actually is saving money because she bought something on sale when she didn't need it in the first place.

Oh yeah, November 2014, I'm just salivating to vote for those choices. I can't wait to vote Democrat! I mean Republican! I mean...wait, what's the difference?

November 2014: The year we can finally get term limits in Congress? I'll vote for that in a heartbeat!

Until then please keep your divisive, partisan nya-nyas to yourself as for as much as you want to brag about the party to which you must belong and/or donate money to you are actually disenfranchising possible supporters who don't subscribe wholly to your donkey-deity but may be willing to listen if you'd stop thumping your pulpit and telling me I'm going someplace warm for being who I am - which in your opinion is wholly inferior to you. I don't see throngs of people lining up to join the Westboro Baptist Church, so that tactic shouldn't be used.

Sincerely,

An independent sick and tired of hearing how the parties think it is all about them and not about us, the citizens.

meowmix

Mr. Zone: Your above post only lets us know you hate both parties. Pray tell, what is your solution? Ralph Nader? Dennis Kucinich? Capt. Kangaroo? You are very adept at criticizing both Dem's and Rep's and have musings for a perfect utopian society but, who do you think will lead us to the land of milk and honey?

grumpy

"Pray tell, what is your solution? Ralph Nader? "

Deciding he won't back people who kick the can... yet again, time after time, telling others he won't and is actively looking for someone, probably who isn't part of the dumb and dumber party... Is a plan. It is more than following the sheepole and sticking his head in the sand, like those in the dumb and dumber party. Getting those who kick the can down the road out of office, either by term limits or voting for those not in either dumb and dumber party is another. Our gov't shouldn't be about office holders, it should be about policies, who gives a crap about personalities or likability if their policies suck?

Contango

Re: "who do you think will lead us to the land of milk and honey?"

Millions of private individuals making free market decisions.

Looking for a "white knight" is asking for authoritarian rule and tyranny ala F.A. Hayek's "The Road to Serfdom."

The Hero Zone's picture
The Hero Zone

There is no such thing as a utopia and any candidate who tells you they will deliver it to you is a liar. They may as well tell you that they will extend recess by 5 minutes and bring back $1/pizza slice at the cafeteria on Thursdays.

We can't look for others to do the job we ourselves must. The campaign taglines of "Yes we can" and "We're the ones we're waiting for" are very much true. Those who have been in Washington for almost their entire lives won't actually change things up because it threatens their comfy chairs, guaranteed pay, and inside knowledge of law that lets them walk away with millions from a job that only pays a bit over 100k.

So, the solution is to approach our state legislature (not even the governor) and have them begin crafting constitutional amendments to spread to the other states to ratify. This way we circumvent Congress and the President who don't want anything to change and WE tell THEM what WE want. Some suggestions below being:

1. Term limits for Congress.
2. Term limits for the Supreme Court.
3. Budget amendment that includes Tax Day being the Monday before Tuesday elections in November.
4. Repealing the 17th Amendment and restoring Senators being appointed by state legislators to represent the state in Federal government.

The ideas above I can go into much more detail if you'd like, but those are the gist. What are other ways we can wash out the parties?

1. Stop giving money and volunteer hours directly to the party.
2. Give the above instead to specific candidates whom you have researched and with whom you agree.
3. Actually research who is running for what office, especially in a primary. Just blindly voting for anyone with a certain letter after their name is lazy and leads us to the position we are in.
4. Until term limits are made, vote out the GOBs as both parties have them aplenty. So you don't think I am just picking on Democrats here I will hope our neighbors to the south give Senator McConnell another job when he is up for reelection.

Just wanting to (using stereotypes) "help people" as a Democrat or "repeal Obamacare" as a Republican isn't enough. You have to ask them how? Why? You must have them actually explain their reasons and motivations and not get caught up in the glamour and shimmer of catch phrases. We are at a point where "millions of Americans" will ALWAYS be affected by anything anyone does. 1% of our population is already three million.

You can't let candidates and officials get away with providing anecdotal evidence as the reason for doing something. There will always be a grandma in need, a young boy who needs a procedure, etc. but while their circumstances may be uniquely unfortunate you can't just change the rules for everyone else.

Most of all, meowmix, you have to have an open mind. You have to actually be willing to talk to others who may not agree with you and learn why they don't. During the last Presidential campaign I visited the President's reelection office twice despite the fact I tend to be more conservative. Why? Because the people there obviously were parting with their time and money enough to believe in someone that I didn't (not that Romney was much better, in fact I never visited his office). I had to know what people saw or expected of him. I was treated civilly there and while it didn't change my vote, I felt better for having confronted the source of many frustrations.

It's easier to call people names and dehumanize them. That way you don't have to feel guilty about what you say or a rampant bout of legislating/spending. After all, you oppose terrorists or animals - not compassionate human beings. So above all else, look at those who may disagree with you personally or your party of choice and challenge yourself to remember that they are human beings just like you with their own frustrations, concerns, fears, and motivations.

Stop It

+1!

Stop It

Very well stated, HZ. I reckon I'll print that for posterity if nothin' else. I tend to keep my statements blunt and short. But that certainly did not come across as blather or punditry.

Gardenman

Dear Hero Zone.

You maybe surprised but what you have to say I do not take as fluff or negative. What you desire and want is really waht most Americans want too. Unfortunately, what you want and hope to get is a dream. You desire what neither party is going to deliver to your door. The entire political system is ladden with all kinds of interest grups and self centered legislators. It is what it is.

You are not going to remove all the negative legislators who make their job a careerm although I to support term limits, or will you create a successful third party who meets our needs, or a host of other things you or many of us want. So what do we do?

We work with what we have and their are so many ways to do that. We just saw how one group of ultra conservatives took the path to close down the US Government and actually let the US default on it's bills. That shutdown caused pain and hardship to the very people they say they wanted to help. The idea to let the US defalt is utterly absurd and force this nation into a bleak economic futurs.

These ultra conservatives are the same principle as the manager of Kroger's saying I don't like some things we have to offer for sale in the store so I am locking the doors of the store. Yes, I am denying residents a place to buy food and hardship of getting to another store but until I get my way and these items removed I will keep the store closed. It might be said well that will put people out of work at Krogers and loss of tax dollars to city, county, state.....yes but until I get my way the store is closed.

The two parties are none too clean as you say but given the past few months in this issue the Republican party was way off the charts in solutions. Luckily, the Democrats and reasonable Republicans in Congress have prevailed and yes they kicked the can down the road a bit more. But let me ask would you have been happier had the can remained in place and you woke up this morning to all the consequences of a nation that has defalted on it'e debt?

Stop It

Give some of who care that "can" all of you say is getting kicked down the road. We will smash it and recycle it.

I'm tired of hearing about this *ghost can*. That thing must be made of titanium if it can take such abuse.

The two party system is either running out of leash or it will corral us all. It only has two sides. Them or us.

The Hero Zone's picture
The Hero Zone

Thank you for a reasonable reply as I really wasn't trying to be snarky or overly sarcastic. That accomplishes nothing constructive. But last night I just hit a breaker after reading so many comments about how one party is supposedly superior to the other that things like increasing our debt by a trillion dollars is seen as responsible leadership.

I agree there are special interests and such and that the current crop of Republicans and Democrats are unwilling to change things. They are alcoholics who haven't admitted they have a problem yet. Relying on them to change the very system they are a part of would be absurd. That is why we as constituents must do it for them. My reply to meowmix has ways to accomplish that if you, too, are upset at leadership (especially within the Democrat party).

I will counter your default statement again by saying that it takes a willing act of the President to default us. He has to choose to not pay the principle and interest on our debt to do that. We take in ten times more per day than we owe on those two items so his threats to do so either show his ignorance of his own power and oath to uphold the constitution or he actually was going to, despite the resources of not having to, default willingly. Please keep that in mind and wonder why very few if any leaders actually explained that to us. Please wonder why we are constantly kept in "crisis mode" and see just what is slipped into legislation that kicks the can a bit more.

While the solutions that Republicans have put out may seem off the charts have yet to hear a single solution from a Democrat. What is their plan? How are they tackling our massive debt? Our overextended Congress? I have heard nothing from them except more of the same, encouraging the status quo, and the like. Why can't the Democrats actually address issues or have an "ultra" faction of their own who actually want to get things done instead of continually passing pork-laden CRs?

What would have made me happy? Actually having our elected leaders sit down and figure out a budget. To have them explain where our money is going and why. Everything is seemingly kept in a big rush so that everything can get squeezed through without question or with the plausible excuse of "we had to do something, it may not be perfect or something got slid in but we'll fix it for next time - promise!".

Look at the $2.2 billion the Republican senator got for his state with this CR. Look at the nearly $200k going to the widow of a Democrat multimillionaire Senator. "Oops, how'd those get in there? Ah well, we promise to form a budget committee to work out stuff later."

Is that any way to govern? Why do I feel like we are subjects of them instead of them being public servants to/for us? Why are very few people in Congress or the President actually explaining things and instead rushing everything in closed meetings, etc.? We must be too dumb to understand things, according to their behavior. It must be a waste of time to actually explain what is going on factually.

Do you see my frustration? Do you see WHY I'm upset with both parties? One is offering absolutely no solutions and/or more of the same behavior that got us to this brink in the first place and the other is closing the store as you say. So which Kroger manager's position is better? Continue to let people steal heavily from the store or shut it down entirely to look at where the problem is?

Ok...I'm done. I'm hitting another wall of frustration and I know when to fold 'em.

Again, thank you for the reply.

Stop It

This cliche has GOT TO GO.

" It is what it is. "

Stop It

ROTFFLMFAO!!!

coasterfan

Darwin: Sorry to hear about your new machine which causes smoke to blow up your arse. This must have caused you quite a headache.

The real ACA, of course, offers a lot more than an aspirin and a bandaid, so your joke, while funny, is not based on fact/truth at all. Hey, where can I get one of the "It's Bush's Fault" yard signs? Most people know that already, but it would be a helpful reminder to conservatives who are still in denial about it.

Please forward all unemployment applications to Mr. Bush, since it was his recession that completely killed the jobs market. Please also send some to the Republican House, who have refused to sign any of Obama's jobs creation bills. Free cellphones should also go to Mr. Bush, since it was he who instituted the program, not Obama. Food stamps? Bush, again, since the recession and job losses caused more people to need them (you do understand how 'cause and effect' works, right?)

Finally, 'tax the rich' would be nice. Fifty years ago, they paid more than double the tax rate they currently pay. America enjoyed a time of great prosperity back then. That all changed when Reagan took office. Now we have a 1% who makes 430x as much as the rest of us, and they contribute little to society - they don't create jobs, they just hoard their wealth and silently chuckle while stupid middle-class conservatives cheer them on.

Over the past few weeks, Republicans have pretty much proven that they are not fit to lead anything. To steal one of the more silly GOP taglines, "How's that Palin-Romney-Cruz-Ryan thing workin' out for ya?"

Darwin's choice

Typical Obamabot troll reply! I knew anything said joking about your leader would bring you, and gardenman, out pounding the keyboard! It won't matter though, Obama has failed.

Contango

Re: "Fifty years ago, they paid more than double the tax rate they currently pay."

Not with deductions. A fallacy.

Contango

Re: "The real ACA, of course, offers a lot more than an aspirin and a bandaid,"

As a member of a protected health care class with health & welfare benefits GUARANTEED by OH taxpayers, you have little to no standing on the issue.

When you sign up for Obama☭are perhaps your screeds will become more credible.

coasterfan

Actually, I don't have my healthcare provided for by Ohio taxpayers. I cashed in my teacher's retirement to pay divorce lawyer fees some years ago. I am part of the private workforce and pay for my own health care through my current employer.

So, I DO have 100% credibility on this issue, and once again, dear Contango, you're wrong. Please do us all a favor and take your dying teaparty ideas and sour grapes elsewhere. Your opinion is a minority opinion, and your team lost yet another battle because of that.

By the way, if you're going to bring up an issue, tell the WHOLE story. Teachers DO pay a goodly sum out of pocket for their healthcare. My wife is a teacher, and roughly 15% of her takehome income each year goes to pay for her single payer plan - after her employer pays their portion.
They also get paid a lot less than those in other fields who have 1-2 college degrees. AND they have to put up with idiots like you, who devalue them at any opportunity. Teachers and public employees aren't the problem, dude.

If you want to talk about a REAL problem, here's one: we all are paying roughly $2000 per year in higher premiums to cover the cost of treating the uninsured. I know, I know. You'd rather pay that, instead of waiting to see if Obamacare will work. Republicans, of course, are only able to learn after peeing on the electric fence.

Contango

Re: "My wife is a teacher,"

Then you're eligible for dependent health and survivor welfare benefits through her.

Still sucking on the OH taxpayer's teat.

--------------

Re: "we all are paying roughly $2000 per year in higher premiums to cover the cost of treating the uninsured."

And ACA AIN'T the solution is it?

deertracker

They don't just pee on the electric fence, they sit down to pee on the electric fence!

Stop It

I gotta say, I'm not on either side of this POS 2 party system. They are the same creature with cause to disturb and rake in the cash. I do love some of the jabs made, though. Creativity and a keyboard can and will cause laughter.
There are a few that just use ad hominems to "try" and make a point and anyone who reads the comment sections well know who they are.

Just gotta laugh at times. Beats crying. :)

Whoopball

Kudos to Kaptur for voting to maintain the full faith and credit of our country. Shame on Jordan and Latta for voting against the bill to meet our obligations. Irresponsible legislators like these don't deserve reelection.

Contango

Re: "maintain the full faith and credit of our country,"

And at the current rate of borrowing, taxing, printing and spending, how long do you figure that it will be "maintained"?

meowmix

truly....Whoopball!

Whoopball

double post

meowmix

Gardenman-- they have blinders on because when all you do is listen to conservative talk radio you somehow delude yourself into thinking there is a vast silent majority of people out there who think the same way. In reality, it is quite the other way around. There are a number of apolitical people out there who may not express themselves on a forum like this but in no way, shape or form do they support those that align with the tea party. They realize change is needed to keep this country up and running, they realize this is the 21st century--not the 1950's. Quite frankly, I think the tea party appeals to those who feel they have somehow been cheated out of their American dream and wants to blame everyone but themself. They scream about the US doling out tons of money for foreign aid and scream about aid to the poorest of our citizens--but hasn't a care that this shut down has cost $24 BILLION dollars thanks to Cruz and his ilk. Pathetic.

The New World Czar

Where are you getting $24 billion and explain how it is the fault of Ted Cruz- without relying on a political website or TV network.

meowmix

$24 billion.
That’s according to an estimate from Standard & Poor’s. The financial services company said the shutdown, which ended with a deal late Wednesday night after 16 days, took $24 billion out of the U.S. economy, and reduced projected fourth-quarter GDP growth from 3 percent to 2.4 percent.

Contango

Re: "took $24 billion out of the U.S. economy,"

Govt. can ONLY spend dollars which it takes from somewhere else.

It would be like you giving $5.00 to your kid and saying that your household grew by $5.00.

The formula for GDP is:

GDP = C + I + G + (Ex - Im)

* C = total spending by consumers
* I = total investment (spending on goods and services) by businesses
* G = total spending by government (federal, state, and local)
* Ex - Im) = net exports (exports - imports)

Stop It

That's not a formula, it's an equation. It falls flat when the crap hits the fan.

deertracker

Any more questions New World....?

The New World Czar

Sure. Again, how is this the fault of Ted Cruz?

Oh, that's right...Obamacare is going to save us $100 billion and create millions of jobs, lollipops, puppy dogs, and unicorns.

Contango

Re: "They realize change is needed to keep this country up and running,"

It's "Hope & Change."

So what kind of "change" are you looking for?

More of the same, printing, borrowing, taxing and spending until we reach true socialism or economic collapse (whichever comes first)?

deertracker

The man said..."win an election if you want change". What change are you looking for?

Darwin's choice

Coasterfan, big dog,deertracker, gardenman,meowwhatever, and all you other "true believers", please watch this...republicans too...

http://poorrichardsnews.com/post...

It makes the math simple, you should be able to comprehend.

Dr. Information

They dont like simple math. They like to blame everyone else but their failing party.