Zimmerman cleared in shooting of Trayvon Martin

Neighborhood watch volunteer could have been convicted of second-degree murder or manslaughter
Associated Press
Jul 14, 2013

 

Neighborhood watch volunteer George Zimmerman was cleared of all charges Saturday in the shooting of Trayvon Martin, the unarmed black teenager whose killing unleashed furious debate across the U.S. over racial profiling, self-defense and equal justice.

Zimmerman, 29, blinked and barely smiled when the verdict was announced. He could have been convicted of second-degree murder or manslaughter. But the jury of six women, all but one of them white, reached a verdict of not guilty after deliberating well into the night. Their names have not been made public, and they declined to speak to the media.

Martin's mother and father were not in the courtroom when the verdict was read; supporters of his family who had gathered outside yelled "No! No!" upon learning of the not guilty verdict.

The teen's father, Tracy, reacted on Twitter: "Even though I am broken hearted my faith is unshattered I WILL ALWAYS LOVE MY BABY TRAY."

His mother also said on Twitter that she appreciated the prayers from supporters.

"Lord during my darkest hour I lean on you. You are all that I have," she wrote.

The jurors considered nearly three weeks of often wildly conflicting testimony over who was the aggressor on the rainy night the 17-year-old was shot while walking through the gated townhouse community where he was staying.

Defense attorneys said the case was classic self-defense, claiming Martin knocked Zimmerman down and was slamming the older man's head against the concrete sidewalk when Zimmerman fired his gun.

"We're ecstatic with the results," defense attorney Mark O'Mara after the verdict. "George Zimmerman was never guilty of anything except protecting himself in self-defense."

Another member of his defense team, Don West, said he was pleased the jury "kept this tragedy from becoming a travesty."

Prosecutors called Zimmerman a liar and portrayed him was a "wannabe cop" vigilante who had grown frustrated by break-ins in his neighborhood committed primarily by young black men. Zimmerman assumed Martin was up to no good and took the law into his own hands, prosecutors said.

State Attorney Angela Corey said after the verdict that she believed second-degree murder was the appropriate charge because Zimmerman's mindset "fit the bill of second-degree murder."

"We charged what we believed we could prove," Corey said.

As the verdict drew near, police and city leaders in the Orlando suburb of Sanford and other parts of Florida said they were taking precautions against the possibility of mass protests or unrest in the event of an acquittal.

"There is no party in this case who wants to see any violence," Seminole County Sheriff Don Eslinger said immediately after jurors began deliberating. "We have an expectation upon this announcement that our community will continue to act peacefully."

O'Mara, Zimmerman's attorney, said his client is aware he has to be cautious and protective of his safety.

"There still is a fringe element that wants revenge," O'Mara said. "They won't listen to a verdict of not guilty."

The verdict came a year and a half after civil rights protesters angrily demanded Zimmerman be prosecuted. That anger appeared to return Saturday night outside the courthouse, at least for some who had been following the case.

Rosie Barron, 50, and Andrew Perkins, 55, both black residents of Sanford, stood in the parking lot of the courthouse and wept.

"I at least thought he was going to get something, something," Barron said.

Added her brother: "How the hell did they find him not guilty?"

Perkins was so upset he was shaking. "He killed somebody and got away with murder," Perkins shouted, looking in the direction of the courthouse. "He ain't getting no probation or nothing."

Several Zimmerman supporters also were outside the courthouse, including a brother and sister quietly rejoicing that Zimmerman was acquitted. Both thought the jury made the right decision in finding Zimmerman not guilty — they felt that Zimmerman killed Martin in self-defense.

Cindy Lenzen, 50, of Casslebury, and her brother, 52-year-old Chris Bay, stood watching the protesters chant slogans such as, "the whole system's guilty."

Lenzen and Bay — who are white — called the entire case "a tragedy," especially for Zimmerman.

"It's a tragedy that he's going to suffer for the rest of his life," Bay said. "No one wins either way. This is going to be a recurring nightmare in his mind every night."

Meanwhile, authorities in Martin's hometown of Miami said the streets were quiet, with no indication of problems. The neighborhood where Martin's father lives in Miami Gardens was equally quiet.

Zimmerman wasn't arrested for 44 days after the Feb. 26, 2012, shooting as police in Sanford insisted that Florida's Stand Your Ground law on self-defense prohibited them from bringing charges. Florida gives people wide latitude to use deadly force if they fear death or bodily harm.

Martin's parents, along with civil rights leaders such as the Revs. Jesse Jackson and Al Sharpton, argued that Zimmerman — whose father is white and whose mother is Hispanic — had racially profiled their son. And they accused investigators of dragging their feet because Martin was a black teenager.

Before a special prosecutor assigned to the case ordered Zimmerman's arrest, thousands of protesters gathered in Sanford, Miami, New York and elsewhere, many wearing hoodies like the one Martin had on the night he died. They also carried Skittles and a can of iced tea, items Martin had in his pocket. President Barack Obama weighed in, saying that if he had a son, "he'd look like Trayvon."

Despite the racially charged nature of the case, race was barely mentioned at the trial. Even after the verdict, prosecutors said the case was not about race.

"This case has never been about race or the right to bear arms," Corey said. "We believe this case all along was about boundaries, and George Zimmerman exceeded those boundaries."

One of the few mentions of race came from witness Rachel Jeantel, the Miami teen who was talking to Martin by phone moments before he was shot. She testified that he described being followed by a "creepy-ass cracker" as he walked through the neighborhood.

Jeantel gave some of the trial's most riveting testimony. She said she overheard Martin demand, "What are you following me for?" and then yell, "Get off! Get off!" before his cellphone went dead.

The jurors had to sort out clashing testimony from 56 witnesses in all, including police, neighbors, friends and family members.

For example, witnesses who got fleeting glimpses of the fight in the darkness gave differing accounts of who was on top. And Martin's parents and Zimmerman's parents both claimed that the person heard screaming for help in the background of a neighbor's 911 call was their son. Numerous other relatives and friends weighed in, too, as the recording was played over and over in court. Zimmerman had cuts and scrapes on his face and the back of his head, but prosecutors suggested the injuries were not serious.

To secure a second-degree murder conviction, prosecutors had to convince the jury that Zimmerman acted with a "depraved" state of mind — that is, with ill will, hatred or spite. Prosecutors said he demonstrated that when he muttered, "F------ punks. These a-------. They always get away" during a call to police as he watched Martin walk through his neighborhood.

To win a manslaughter conviction, prosecutors had to convince the jury only that Zimmerman killed without lawful justification.

 

Comments

BULLISDEEP's picture
BULLISDEEP

GOOD

The Big Dog's back

This is coming from a state (Florida) who found Casey Anthony not guilty. Mothers, don't take your kids to Florida.

JudgeMeNot

Zimmer is free to go.

VTX Rider

Yes. He is.

Mum-of-One

Runyan v. State (1877) 57 Ind. 80, 20 Am.Rep. 52, is one of the earliest cases to strongly support and establish in U.S. law an individual's right to initiate self-defense actions up to and including the justifiable use of lethal force against an aggressor.
In Runyan, the court stated "When a person, being without fault, is in a place where he has a right to be, is violently assaulted, he may, without retreating, repel by force, and if, in the reasonable exercise of his right of self defense, his assailant is killed, he is justiciable."

The Big Dog's back

Hope your "one" doesn't walk thru a Florida neighborhood with skittles and tea.

whazup

Don't forget the part where she punches the other person and beats his head.

JudgeMeNot

Get over it deerwacker and lil dog, the jury has spoken. Zimmer is free to go.

VTX Rider

Yes. He is.

herbie_hancock

walk thru a Florida neighborhood with skittles and tea...and use racial slurs, and smoke/sell weed, and get kicked out of school, and pose like a gangster with your guns on facebook, and pound someones face in to the concrete. It was a panel of his peers, all mothers, that found him not guilty, not the state of Florida. If someone is pounding my face into the concrete, 17 years old or not, I'd do the same thing. Granite Im not going to follow someone around my neighborhood, but its not against the law to do so.

JudgeMeNot

Ha ha. Zimmer is free to go.

VTX Rider

Yes. He is.

brahrider's picture
brahrider

Ya'll are funny!

A judge denied a new trial Thursday for a Jacksonville woman who has gained national support for her assertion that she stood her ground firing a warning shot against an abusive husband and now can expect a 20-year sentence.

Defense attorney Kevin Cobbin spent about 40 minutes arguing on behalf of 31-year-old Marissa Alexander. He based much of it on what he called limitations the court placed on testimony that could support Alexander's claim of her husband's reputation of abusing women.

Authorities said Alexander shot in the direction of 36-year-old Rico Gray during an August 2010 dispute at their home with his two children in the house.

It took a jury just 12 minutes to find Alexander guilty in March of three counts of aggravated assault with a deadly weapon.

Alexander, who rejected an earlier plea deal, said she was in fear of her life and fired the single shot to get Gray out of the house. She said she had tried to leave through the garage before getting her gun, but the door wouldn't work.

Circuit Judge James Daniel denied all of Cobbins' pleas for a new trial, repeatedly referring to the accounts of two witnesses who did testify about Gray's violent reputation.

Cobbin argued that the court also erred in denying Alexander immunity in a Stand Your Ground hearing in July 2011. The law has become a firestorm for debate following the February killing of 17-year-old Trayvon Martin by a neighborhood watch volunteer in Sanford.

It helped elevate Alexander's cause as the NAACP's Jacksonville chapter issued a letter to the judge, supporters have rallied outside the courthouse and national media have zoned in on her story.

Cobbin added that new evidence pertaining to the details of the incident was not known at the time of the hearing.

That new evidence included the testimony of one of the victims, Gray's son, who at first told authorities he was in fear of his life during the shooting. But at Alexander's trial, he said he was not.

The judge said it would be improper, however, to reverse Circuit Judge Elizabeth Senterfitt's previous findings in the immunity hearing, which would ultimately translate into an acquittal.

"Maybe I would be agreeing to a new Stand Your Ground motion, which highlights some of the difficulties we are struggling with procedurally implementing this new law," Daniel said. "But ultimately the motion is denied."

Daniel said that despite any new evidence, Senterfitt's ruling was based on Alexander's decision to go back into the home armed with a gun.

"This is inconsistent with a person in genuine fear of his or her life," Senterfitt wrote in her ruling.

"She had every right to walk back in that house and had no intention of using that gun until he engaged her," Cobbin said.

Daniel said he will consider acquitting her of one of the charges based on Gray's son's testimony at trial, which he said he took as the truth, though Alexander will still face the 20-year sentence on the other two counts.

State Attorney Angela Corey said it was Alexander's choice to take the case to trial despite a plea offer that would have given her a three-year sentence. The offer was good until the Friday before her trial.

"We still considered all of her mitigation and offered to take 17 years off of the 20-year minimum mandatory, which the '10-20-Life' [law] is excellent at giving prosecutors the discretion to do," Corey said.

Corey said that offer came even after Alexander was arrested four months after the shooting on a charge of domestic abuse, again against Gray. She pleaded no contest to that charge in March following her trial and was sentenced to time served.

Gray has been arrested twice on domestic battery charges, one against Alexander resulting in a conviction and a sentence of probation. Alexander had an injunction filed against him following the attack.

"There's no set standard as to what you do when you're in fear," said Helen Jenkins, Alexander's mother. "Actually, he's still alive. That speaks well of her."

Jenkins said she was disappointed by the judge's ruling, but she and her supporters will "keep on going" to an appeal.

But not before Alexander is sentenced May 11.

Read more at Jacksonville.com: http://jacksonville.com/news/cri...

whazup

Just another example where the courts do not allow abused women to stand up to their abusers. That's another conversation in itself!

herbie_hancock

http://weknowmemes.com/wp-conten... Tag:big dog, deertracker

middleclassworker

I understand a number of people in this country will be upset by the out come of this trial. BUT, SIX WOMAN found him innocent!! It was the press all around the country who was selling guilty...for this they should be ashamed....just to sell a paper or advertising for their news show. The fact I see interesting is that when Martin was 'scared of someone following him" he called his girlfriend to show off with racial slang and descriptive words.....not the police to help him. He choose to show this (racial descriptive term) white person following him a lesson......ask yourself why he didn't want the police involved? He didn't call them....bad people never want to involve the police! Martin did not call the police! He choose to teach Zimmermann a lesson and started a beating so bad that then and only then he choose to defend himself. It is a sad story, I don't like any part of it. And now many others will riot in his name because the media couldn't control the new's story....now they have to just report it.

The Big Dog's back

Bullspit.

middleclassworker

Thank's

deertracker

Your info is incorrect. He did not call his girlfriend he called a friend which is the thing to do if you feel you may be in danger. Calling the police would have been pointless because no crime had been committed. I don't think he was "showing off". Your assumption of "rioting" is not only insulting it shows your lack of knowledge about black people.

middleclassworker

Didn't his friend who was a girl (female or lady) testify on what Martin was saying while being chased?....And you don't need to call the police after a situation turn into a crime....their vehicles typically have a marking on the car that states "to serve & protect" !!! If he felt threatened in any way "life or death , injury vs safety" then he should have called the police. I never mentioned rioting blacks....that was your words.....not mine.

deertracker

You do need to call the police after the fact if a crime has been committed. No disrespect to the police but they cannot protect you if they are not there. You have to protect yourself. I challenge you to call the police and say someone is following you. What do you think they are going to do? What can they do? Who did you think was going to riot? Latinos? Whites? Asians? Who?

middleclassworker

The police will never be there....if you don't call....he didn't call. I have called the police about suspicious persons in my neighborhood....they responded very quickly!! (Thanks Perkins police dept.!!)And thanks to the state of OHIO and the ERIE county sheriff dept. and my success in schooling and training, and being upstanding citizen who had no problems with the back ground check thru the BCI (Bureau of Criminal Investigation...In case you not aware of them) I have the ability to lawfully protect myself and my family.

Who do I think will riot? AL Qaeda...lol....How about those who disagree with the outcome of the trail ....no matter what their race, church, height, weight, political party is. I don't appreciate you or the media for making this about race!! That their lie's the whole problem!!

Would you feel better if Zimmerman had died from head trauma while Martin ran and hid and bragged to his friends? If so you are a hypocrite!!

The Big Dog's back

HE WAS 17!

middleclassworker

So....I group of teenagers in Sandusky beat a man within an inch of his life....dragged his almost lifeless body down the street to do who knows what to him....probably finish the last of his life away. So if he was 17 then why did they use his 12 yr old picture for the media?

herbie_hancock

How old was T. J. Lane? So your age excuses you from smashing someones face in the concrete? Your age excuse is null and void.

middleclassworker

thank you

The Big Dog's back

What kind of wannabe cop can't handle a 17 year old?

middleclassworker

Martin was 6' 2" and 175 lbs. 17 years old.....not 12 like his picture! Zimmerman was 5' 9" and 160 lbs....he gained 40 + lbs by the time he went to court.

rezzy

I had no idea that by simply being a wannabe cop would mean that I can physically dominate others. From now on, I am going to beat everyone up because I now want to be a cop. Thanks Big pup

Godhelpus44857

MiddleClass: I agree with you when you said the teenager should have called the police for assistance. If someone was following me and I felt fearful, I would call the police and not a friend. This was a tragic case of a teenager (regardless of color) going to stand his ground and "buck-up" to an adult. Teenagers defy and disrespect authority more and more now these days. I think Zimmerman should have behaved better as well. I understand he was trying to "protect" his neighborhood, but if he thought this kid was up to no good, he also should have called the police and asked them to check the kid out. This is a sad and tragic story. The thing that will make this worse, is all of the violent protests that will take place because of this verdict. I do not really believe Mr. Zimmerman targeted this youth because he was black, I think it was more he just thought he looked suspicious. I really hate to see anti-social behavior of any kind by any person, but it really makes me sick when folks use incidences like this to 1) act like idiots and 2) turn it into something racist. It really stains and stifles the message being sent when things get twisted into violent, racial socially inappropriate behaviors. When humans operate under the "pack mentality" then we all lose. My thoughts and prayers are with both families affected by this senseless violence.

arnmcrmn

Way to much evidence pointing toward self defense. When the forensics point that way.....case closed.

2cents's picture
2cents

Thank god it is over, no winners either way, a regional story all ginned up by the media to be a racial thing, and fueled from a comment by our president!

There are a few things I do not understand. Why do we call our president (black) when he has a white mother? Why do we call George Zimmerman a white / Hispanic when he has a white mother and a Peruvian father? Should we call our president a Caucasian / African? It always appears that people like to choose the persons particular parent when it is to their advantage, for example I know people that wanted free stuff so they think “how far back can I go, do I have a minority in my family” Or they choose the other parent if they feel threatened, “your just picking on me because I’m black”

The media also always used the phrase, Travon Martin, a 17 year old child, but never used the phrase George Zimmerman, a 29 year old man, why keep throwing in the age thing?

Another note, there is a sign on the front of my bank; it is the symbol “no guns allowed inside”. Just above that sign is another sign that says “remove hoodies and sunglasses before entering”. So the bank is profiling too? Where does it end, personally when I see somebody walking with their head covered with a hoodie and there is no blizzard or downpour I think suspiciously, I guess that comes with the idea, why is this person hiding their identity?

It happened, there was a trial and it’s over, no winner. If people choose to riot and cause trouble, they are not seeking justice, they just want to cause unrest because they like to.

PTBarnumWouldBeProud

2cents, in a way, I do certainly agree with you about the "ginning" up of this case by the media. But we cannot discount the role that the President and Attorney General in exacerbating this situation. Heck, they even helped to fund "Anti-Zimmerman" rallies in Florida during the period prior to the trial.

The Big Dog's back

pt, who funded zim's $30,000 a month living expenses? Who paid for the lawyers? Who paid for the "experts" to testify? Once again, bigoted views.

deertracker

I agree. PT you are way off the mark. The President and the AG did NOTHING inappropriate. Amazes me how some of you and Florida LE have very little regard for a black kid's life!

Richard Bebb

Enough of the black-white things, its nauseating. One person, one, made this a race issue and that was Martin when he profiled Zimmerman as a creepy a^^ cracker. Martin had 4 min window to walk away and go home and instead he chose to confront Zimmerman and attack him and it cost him his life. Those were the facts of the case that was confirmed by a jury. Anyone can come on her and make guesses as to what they think happened but the facts of this case and the jury agreed that Zimmerman was right in his actions.

stayfit

In 2008, 2,947 children died gun-related deaths. A black child is 10-times more likely to suffer a gun-related death than a white child (Children's Defense Fund).

It amazes me that people try to make one death a Civil Rights issue when there are innocent children gunned down in their own neighborhoods every year.

My opinion: There was no Civil Rights issue and had Trayvon been white, they would have never charged Zimmerman. Had Zimmerman been black, he would have never been charged.

Mark O'Mara (Zimmerman's defense attorney) said that had Zimmerman been black he would have never been charged.

There is plenty of violence that is not reported extensively in mass media. It sold papers to put angelic picture of Trayvon at age 12 and he was likely charged to appease a divided country that made their mind up about the trial before facts were released.

Quoted by Zimmerman's other attorney: "A tragedy could have become a travesty."

Had Zimmerman been convicted of second degree murder for valuing his own life, that would have been a travesty.

PTBarnumWouldBeProud

http://nationalreport.net/obama-...

Still think he's got nothing to do with pushing this agenda?

There were NO winners in this case.

Why does the President not seem to give a tinker's damn about the 2000+ homicides that have taken place in his own home town since he took office?

I really find Larry Elder's tweet from earlier today rather thought provoking. "With OJ, the state had mountain of evidence. Zealots called him innocent. In Zimmerman, the state had nothing. Zealots called him guilty." @larryelder

I respecfully disagree with the thought that I am "way off mark."

By the way, President Obama has spent his entire political career (both state and national) pushing for continuing unfettered access to abortion, up to and including late term "partial birth" abortions. It is estimated that since 1973, over 13 million abortions to African American mothers have occurred. http://www.blackgenocide.org/bla... I'm not attempting to compare apples to oranges, but it is also a huge issue.

Trayvon Martin's death was tragic, and I wouldn't wish this situation upon anyone, but with the way that Florida's "Stand your Ground" legislation was written, the prosecution's case was not one that was going to lead to Zimmerman's conviction.

The Big Dog's back

Yep, President Obama is the 1st President to weigh in on things like this. Oh, wait a minute, didn't George W. Bush insert himself in the Terri Schiavo case? Made a special trip back to DC to reconvene the Senate? Oh, but he was a WHITE President weighing in on a WHITE matter.

PTBarnumWouldBeProud

You're right.....I remember that speech where he stated that if he had a sister, she'd be just like Terri Schiavo.

Sorry, Big Dog...you're now comparing apples and anvils. I'm not buying it at all.

The Big Dog's back

Nope, he didn't say that. He and the Repub Congress wasted time and money on LEGISLATION. Maybe the President should get a law against zim.

PTBarnumWouldBeProud

Well, Big Dog, I did notice that you did a great job deflecting the points I made in an earlier post.

I think we can both agree that the death of Trayvon Martin is tragic, but do you really think that if Zimmerman was African American, and Martin white, or even African American that we'd even hear about this situation here in Ohio? I'd say not.

We all know who Lacy Peterson was. We all know who Natalie Holloway was. Why do we know who they were? It is because the media decided that their faces were ones that they could splash on their programming, and milk the story for days, weeks, months.

The exact same thing happened in the Martin case. The media decided that this case was worthy of that same sort of attention.

Unfortunately, when they "glorify" one case, we tend to become desensitized to the fact that during the time in which this case played out, thousands of individuals were murdered. Got a list of those names.....because I sure know that I don't.

The Big Dog's back

Actually if the police would have acted properly in the 1st place we wouldn't have heard about this case either.

PTBarnumWouldBeProud

Do you mean the same police department that, based upon the laws that were on the books in the state of Florida, found no grounds to arrest George Zimmerman?

http://www.nationalreview.com/co...

Are they just supposed to "make something up" to appease the folks that didn't care whether or not there were any laws actually broken? That is called an ex post facto law, and would be unconstitutional.

deertracker

You have to investigate to find those reasons!

PTBarnumWouldBeProud

Double post....my bad

herbie_hancock

"Regard for a black kids life" That's ironic considering he was SMASHING SOMEONES ELSE'S FACE IN. What are you trying to get at? Is his life worth any less than a white kids? YOUR the ones bringing race into it NO ONE ELSE. What does Florida or the police have to do with anything? He WAS charged with murder and manslaughter. It was his peers, all women and mothers that acquitted him based on the EVIDENCE. Racism won't die because folks like YOU won't let it die. The "race card" loses its value if you use it all the time. If you can blame anyone for Zimmerman "getting off" its a combination of the evidence and Trevon. The caliber of his character was determined by the way he was acting at the time of his death, not as the sweet 11 year old boy with skittles and tea in the picture that the media kept flashing around.

The Big Dog's back

The race card?

happyfeet64

Look Zimmerman wasn't getting his face smashed in -he barely had any injuries to the back of his head, please I've had my head smashed into the sidewalk(once by a LAPD officer) and received alot worse injuries than what Zimmerman had. As for why didn't Trayvon call the cops ? Same reason why when I lived in LA, I wouldn't think of calling them- to protect and serve is a major joke in some communities in this country. And if I recall didn't Zimmerman call the cops and was told by Dispatch to NOT follow Trayvon? Yet he did and now a family buried their child and he walks with no consequences. As for all the other issues, race, abortion, the slaughter of children in our communities around our country-all are tactics designed to distract from only one thing I'm seeing. If a person is in my back yard, I can shoot and kill them with no repercussions by saying I feared for my life and who can dispute that if they're laying dead at my feet. It's straight BS.

herbie_hancock

So he should of let him slam his head into the sidewalk a couple more times before he shot him, because in YOUR experience concrete doesn't hurt that much, apparently you have seen all the evidence in the case and are qualified to judge whether or not he felt threatened...makes sense, why aren't we just listening to you and your vast treasure trove of knowledge. Zimmerman is free. Innocent. The Law hasn't changed. And the majority of people would do the exact same thing instead of laying there as a limp noodle because "maybe it didn't hurt or maybe he'll stop". Meanwhile kids both black and white are killed/raped by the thousands while literately doing nothing but riding their bikes or playing (not beating someone), yet here you are (and the NAACP) protesting this case, yet claim "race" has nothing to do about it. You know why people visit the SR.com? its not because of the "news" its because we enjoy reading all the stuff posted the nitwits that think people in nature are good and everyone deserves the benefit of a doubt until they smash your face in...or in your case until smashing your face in hurts enough to react.

S w Rand 2016

re: happyfeet: "And if I recall didn't Zimmerman call the cops and was told by Dispatch to NOT follow Trayvon?"

Are you sure? I thought the police officer merely said "We don't need you to do that," as they are not legally allowed to order you to stop following someone in a public place.
I was looking at "The Talk" for a second and one of the hosts, a Black mother, had pointed this out.

Excerpt from the Wiki: "the show currently features Julie Chen as the moderator, Sheryl Underwood, Aisha Tyler, and Sharon Osbourne discussing the day's latest headlines while usually tying in the show's theme of motherhood or at least parenthood, such as by giving their opinions "through the eyes of mothers"."

goofus

Private, NOT government donations troll!!!!!!!!

tk

@2cents. Just another example of how people can get their facts wrong. Zimmerman has a white father and a Preuvian mother.

2cents's picture
2cents

Sorry, I reversed them, if he had a more spanish "Mesa" for a last name would this have been racially ginned up?

arnmcrmn

I bet MSNBC and CNN are having a hay day with this.......

Contango

Re: "MSNBC and CNN"

Oughta help their ratings for AT LEAST a day or two. :)

Did you see Chuck Todd's frustration?

http://www.realclearpolitics.com...

Contango

Wonder if TM's parents will bring civil charges against Zimmerman?

Burden of proof levels are lower.

sandtown born a...

they have probably already started the process.

KnuckleDragger

From what I've read they can't. Florida law doesn't allow lawsuits against the victim in cases of self defense. I hate using the DailyKos, but they already did the research into it.

http://www.dailykos.com/story/20...

The Big Dog's back

If I was a right wingnut I would hate using the Daily Kos too.

JudgeMeNot

Zimmer is free to go.

VTX Rider

Yes. He is.

Contango

@ KD:

Thanks.

"DK" - even a broken clock is right twice a day.

grumpy

Stand your ground would have handled the civil cases, if Zimmermans lawyers had used "stand you ground' as their defense. However they didn't, they used self defense. I don't know Florida law enough to know if they can use it, if or when, the civil suits come. If I had to guess, I would "guess" that they can use it if Zimmerman is sued. We will see what happens.

whazup

One of the issues that was discussed at the CCW training I took was self defense will stand up in a criminal court (when you don't have the ability to retreat) but expect to be taken to civil court.

herbie_hancock

Civil suit is already in the works, but Zimmerman is going to get way more in his suit on MSNBC for doctoring the 911 call then Travon's parents will from George.

Blowfish

Likely a wrongful death suit will be leveled against him.

The Big Dog's back

"Stand Your Ground", unless you are a unarmed Black teen.

KnuckleDragger

Don't forget to add and unarmed teen who intiated the attack. It is not illegal to follow someone. It is however illegal to physically assault someone. I know Trayvon was a good little boy, so good that prosecution had get the judge to disallow the admittance of Trayvon's police record in court.

deertracker

Zimmerman's rap sheet was not allowed in either so what is your point?

JudgeMeNot

Zimmer is free to go.

VTX Rider

Yes. He is.

whazup

It wasn't a case of "stand your ground". When you are knocked to the ground and being punched in the head it falls under self-defense. Zimmerman was within the law to follow Martin. Martin was within the law to verbally confront Zimmerman but once he knocked him to the ground, it was a new game. It sounds like the young Martin wasn't expecting Zimmerman to be carrying.

The Big Dog's back

In a way I glad you 2 agree about using deadly force in a fistfight. Don't complain then if someones does the same to you.

whazup

First, it wasn't a fist fight but if you call a person on top of you repeatedly banging your head on the ground a fist fight and as your head is being banged the assailant threatens to shoot you with your own gun, then I say deadly force falls under self defense. Here's a thought Dumb Dog, don't throw the first punch.

The Big Dog's back

Yeah, wait for the person with the gun to shoot you 1st then stand your ground. Yep, makes sense to me.

whazup

I don't believe the younger man was aware that there was a gun until he had the man on the ground beating him. It was during that time that he saw it and threatened to use it on the owner.

deertracker

He saw it as he was laying on top of it on the ground? Makes no sense.

whazup

Have you ever seen a CCW holster? If one person is above the other it wouldn't be hard to see once the jacket moved. It you are carrying, you don't place it somewhere that is difficult to access. The prosecution was not able to show that Martin was not on top of Zimmerman when the gun was fired.

2cents's picture
2cents

So you are suggesting that Zim did not flash the firearm until he felt that his life was in danger and Martin not knowing he had a firearm did not run away. What I see is maybe Zim having the firearm gave him an edge in his mind that allowed him to follow and ask Martin why he was there and Martin not knowing there was a firearm felt with his youth and street smarts would have no problem with Zim.

OOPS! there was a firearm and what happened happened, sad but it did and the jury surely had to make a decision based on that.

Politics try's to make it a racial issue these two were both probably hyped up, Zim from the rash of trouble in the neighborhood, Martin from being shipped away from home, expelled from school for weed and probably rolling with a teenager bad boy attitude.

whazup

I agree with you. No doubt Zimmerman felt secure in following Martin and Martin thought he could whip the old man's butt. I don't believe either person expected the situation to end the way it did. I don't know if Zim flashed the gun or not. I am just stating what is being released from the testimony. The information states that when Martin saw the gun, he commented that he would shoot Zimmerman with it. He certainly could have grabbed it from Zimmerman. The testimony also stated that Martin was above Zimmerman when the gun was fired. Apparently the jury thought the evidence supported the testimony. If I thought someone was carrying a gun, I wouldn't have taken him on, especially unarmed.

deertracker

You guys watch too much tv.

2cents's picture
2cents

I never owned a handgun until I was a victim of crime! I also watch very little TV, most shows are those cop CSI things, not my style, the sitcoms are well I guess I am to old, so TMC is my best shot : )

deertracker

Let's hope none of your kids ever get gunned down for walking in the rain!

whazup

He didn't get shot for walking in the rain. He got shot because instead of walking away from Zimmerman, he turned and began a physical altercation. Should Zimmerman been following him? Maybe he shouldn't have but following a person is not against the law. When I was 17, I would have been scared if someone was following me (still would be today) and the last thing I would have done was turned around and approached him let alone start a physical fight. Martin had an out and could have gone home, but didn't. It is just sad all around.

deertracker

Ahh yes, he was suppose to cower and be passive even though he had done no wrong. I just don't believe GZ's version. It's not logical. He said that he was scared. He should have went back to his vehicle and let the cops handle it.

2cents's picture
2cents

"He should have went back to his vehicle and let the cops handle it."

Gee! We agree on something.

Richard Bebb

It doesn't matter what you believe, the jury found him innocent case closed.

whazup

Exactly.

JudgeMeNot

Zimmer is free to go.

VTX Rider

Yes. He is.

goofus
whazup

I wonder if Big Dog forgot about the man in Sandusky being attacked by a large group of teens (some are serving time). Those kids are lucky that the man didn't have a gun or the man's girlfriend didn't shoot them. They would have been within theirs rights under self-defense.

The Big Dog's back

What's that have to do with what happened in Florida?

whazup

It means that it doesn't matter what your age is. When you are attacking a person in a manner that can cause extreme harm, and the person cannot get away, the one being threatened is within his rights to use deadly force. Mr. Zimmman was one the ground being attacked by a teen and the man in Sandusky was on the ground being attacked by teens. Do you think that the Sandusky man would have been justified if he had a gun and shot any of those kids?

The Big Dog's back

The more you post the less sense you make.

whazup

No, I make sense. You just can't respond intelligently. Yes or no. Does a person who is on the ground being attacked in the head have a right to use whatever force is available to stop the threat? Zimmerman had a gun and used it. Would the Sandusky man been within his rights to use a gun when he was being attacked?

The Big Dog's back

So when a store owner suspects someone of robbing him, gets him down on the ground outside and the person on the ground feels his life is threatened, he can shoot the store owner?

whazup

Depends. If the store owner has called the police and is holding him at gun point telling him to not move until the police arrive, then I would say no. If however the store owner is beating the "suspect" then by all means my answer is YES!

But you still haven't answered my question. Would the Sandusky man been within the definition of self defense when he was being attacked and was trapped on the ground? I have asked this question to you more than once.

deertracker

I'll take that one. The answer is yes but you are comparing apples to oranges!

whazup

Not really. If you are having your head beat in and no way to escape then deadly force is justified.

Does following someone justify getting hit and knocked to the ground and beaten in the head? The law says it isn't. TWO people should have made different choices that night.

stayfit

Whazup: You are making great points. You seem very intelligent.

The Big Dog's back

Another sock puppet?

JudgeMeNot

Zimmer is free to go.

VTX Rider

Yes. He is.

herbie_hancock

^Thats ironic big dog.

SamAdams

Thank god. The evidence was pretty clear, but I couldn't help but worry that any juror would also unavoidably consider the reaction to the verdict and might be swayed accordingly.

The truly appalling thing, though, is that this isn't over. There have already been appeals made to the DOJ (CNN has a story) to push for punishment (this, for a man found not guilty), and there will doubtless be a civil suit or six. This is shameful on virtually every level. My heart goes out to the Zimmermans for whom, as the lawyers have said, life will never be the same and who will probably always be in a certain amount of danger.

The Big Dog's back

Welcome to the "new" old South. What's next in Florida, Sunday afternoon lynchings again?

KnuckleDragger

You should know better than us. Don't you live in Florida in one of those lily white retirement communities?

The Hero Zone's picture
The Hero Zone

EDIT: Looks like it responded to KD instead of BD for some reason, my remarks here are for BD.

Mmmm, yup. Nothing I love more than being stereotyped by an unprogressive bigot from a thankfully bygone age.

Move on. We can't go forward with thinking like that. Please stop having such an unfounded prejudice against entire populations of people who can't help where they were born.

Please, before you get into a huff-and-post about this, think of the vast majority of people you offend with your remarks. If you care. If you don't, then please continue to be a stereotype yourself and make holding America's progress back your daily cause.

In short, as a natural-born Floridian, I am deeply insulted by your remarks and ask that you retract them.

The Big Dog's back

Oh spare me the phony outrage.

The Hero Zone's picture
The Hero Zone

You have just accused nearly 20 MILLION people (of many different backgrounds) of being, effectively, KKK members. Phony? Your prejudice is astounding as is your apparent misinformation about the state. You realize this is 2013, right? Not 1953? What kind of a world do you live in that you can just flatly accuse millions of people to be INTRINSICALLY racist to the point where they not only can't help it but will use mob justice to act? Are you a bitter misenthrope? I sure hope not, what a way to live your life.

As you don't seem to be aware of what the world is like sixty years in the future, I will assure you that at least for the young people they don't hold nearly the same kind nor amount of hate in their hearts for people who are regionally, ethnically, or any other "-ally" different than them.

There will always be ignorance in our world, nothing can stop that, but you both date and stereotype yourself by not being able to comprehend it on an individual, case-by-case basis. Will you next say that ALL bulldogs are vicious? That ALL bankers are crooked villains?

Please modernize yourself and your views. I think that this is why I was having trouble understanding you earlier. I seem to believe in people, encourage them, and promote them to be better for themselves and others (not just here but 1,000% more "in real life"). These are not qualities I have yet witnessed you espouse.

Maybe something happened to you that mentally or emotionally scarred you. If that was the case then I am sorry for that and hope that some kind of justice was served to help right it. But the world isn't as hard-lined black-and-white as you make it out to be.

Many don't seem to see it is actually the beautiful, diverse place they have always wanted it to be. It may not be on their terms, but it is there. Here and now. Currently as we breathe and type back and forth.

grumpy

Good observation, valid in your points. Hope it helps the intended recipient. (but don't hold your breathe)

The Big Dog's back

Could have fooled me. I thought it was the 60's. Take your pick 1860's or 1960's.

The Big Dog's back

All bulldogs are vicious and all bankers are crooks.

JudgeMeNot

Zimmer is free to go.

VTX Rider

Yes. He is.

The Big Dog's back

hero, time for you to wake up and smell the coffee.

goofus

Only untill Seminole and Gator football starts up

The Big Dog's back

zim changed his own life sam.

deertracker

Well Sam, at least Zimmerman has a LIFE! Your heart goes out to a killer. That Sam is shameful. Yes, I am sure the jury was really concerned about how white people would react if they found Zimmerman guilty.

KnuckleDragger

Apparently they didn't care how blacks would react either,as they shouldn't. Justice shouldn't be administered based on how a group of people might react. Besides, Zimmerman identifies himself as Hispanic, not white.

deertracker

They should not have been and weren't concerned. There also is no violent reaction in Florida. I always thought he was Hispanic because he is!

whazup

He is Hispanic but much of the media would like you to think it is white on black crime. That is my biggest beef with this story.

BULLISDEEP's picture
BULLISDEEP

The appalling thing is all the jerks that think it's ok to destroy other peoples property because of the outcome .

The Big Dog's back

Where's the riots? Where's the property damage bigot?

Tsu Dho Nimh

They started in Oakland, CA last night.

deertracker

Started what? This happened in Florida, remember!

KnuckleDragger

Read the Cleveland Plain Dealer. They are reporting protests in Oakland that include street fires and breaking out windows. Another smalltown moron who believes that just because it wasn't printed in the local hillbilly rag that it isn't happening.

whazup

Watch the news and read the papers.

KnuckleDragger

Try Oakland California where the protests are just beginning.

The Big Dog's back

Shortest "riot" in history. No arrests, streets were empty by 2 am.

deertracker

LOL! They want sooooooooo bad for there to be riots over this. Get a life people.

whazup

Just stating what the three major networks were reporting this morning. I think it's fair to say that the media has twisted this story from the beginning to make it a hate/race issue. Martin wasn't just a nice kid who walked in the rain to buy some candy and Zimmerman is not the racist that the media wants you believe. Should the situation escalated to a shooting? No. Was Martin an innocent party in this tragedy? No. Should Zimmerman followed Martin? It can be argued that he shouldn't. It's a matter of opinion but don't forget, Zimmerman was part of the block watch. Was it against the law? No. Should Martin went home instead of confronting Zimmerman. Probably. Was he breaking the law when he didn't. No. Should he have thrown the first punch and knocked Zimmerman to the ground? No, because that is where the law was first broken (along with Zimmerman's nose). I don't remember the media talking about that, do you?

The Big Dog's back

Then why didn't he identify himself as a volunteer? My name is George, I'm head of the neighborhood watch group.

whazup

How do you know that he didn't?

deertracker

Actually I do remember. It's funny how the media is so awful for hyping up the case but not so awful for hyping up this so called unrest and rioting. You can't have it both ways. Martin was not a bad kid. Lots of kids get into some type of trouble. His infractions were minor kid stuff. Can't say the same for GZ. He assaulted a police officer at one point. HELLO! He should have let the cops handle it. End of story!

whazup

The media mentioned it a little at first then started to say that they couldn't obtain pictures of Zimmerman with a broken nose. Do you remember that? My understanding that there were pictures and were submitted as evidence.

deertracker

What I really remember is the terrible job the police did. Three days in the morgue? Giving GZ back his gun that night? This case is about equal justice. I love Keisha just as much as you love Becky!

whazup

WTH?????? Keisha and Becky? Have no clue what you're talking about.

The Big Dog's back

Baloney.

JudgeMeNot

Zimmer is free to go.

VTX Rider

Yes. He is.

KnuckleDragger

Really? I have three teenage boys and none of them have a rap sheet. They certainly aren't being arrested multiple times for assault, drugs, and posting messages on FB that they are looking to score a gun. You won't find them on social media flashing gang signs and posting pics of them smoking dope either.

KnuckleDragger

Ahh yes, fast forward one day. Reports out of LA and Oakland now say that violence has erupted with reports of protesters randomly beating passersby and breaking shop windows, widespread vandalism and looting. Several arrests have already been made and riot police have been deployed. What a difference a day makes. Please tell me you are not so stupid as to believe that this would not happen. This is how blacks react to everything that doesn't for their way. Why is is happening in Cali instead of Florida? I'll tell you why. They are less likely to encounter armed civilian resistence to this nonsense in California. The inmates run the asylum out there.

BULLISDEEP's picture
BULLISDEEP

Try looking at the news. Big pup you wouldn't feel so good if someone damaged your car.
.
.
Several hundred demonstrators marched peacefully amid a heavy police presence in downtown San Francisco soon after the verdict was announced. Many carried signs with slogans such as "The people say guilty" and "The whole system is racist".

In New York City, crowds carrying homemade signs and blowing whistles marched and gathered in the iconic Times Square.

In the California city of Oakland, protests were more violent, with angry demonstrators spray-painting cars and smashing windows, according to the US media reports.

In Chicago, to the cry of "No justice, no peace! No racist police!" a crowd of activists held a noisy downtown rally, the Chicago Tribune reported.

Los Angeles police declared a "citywide tactical alert" when about 200 demonstrators gathered at a park in a historical black neighbourhood to demonstrate, but police later told local media that it was as a precaution, and that there had been no acts of violence.

Dozens of mostly African-American youths marched chanting slogans in Washington DC, the US capital. They were followed closely by patrol vehicles.

A crowd of several hundred gathered all day on Saturday outside the courthouse in Sanford - and many were outraged when the verdict was read.

The Big Dog's back

So the 1st Amendment doesn't apply to Black people? Really.

whazup

Freedom of Speech applies to everyone. The freedom to cause destruction to the property of others applies to no one.

The Big Dog's back

Where were there destruction in what bull posted?

whazup

Look at Bull's post again.

"In the California city of Oakland, protests were more violent, with angry demonstrators spray-painting cars and smashing windows, according to the US media reports."

Again, can you not read or do you just bark at parked cars, Dumb Dog?

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