Gun group offers training for Utah teachers

Jessica Fiveash sees nothing wrong with arming teachers. She's one herself, and learned Thursday how to safely use her 9 mm Ruger with a laser sight.
Associated Press
Dec 30, 2012

"If we have the ability to stop something, we should do it," said the elementary school teacher, who along with nearly 200 other teachers in Utah took six hours of free gun training offered by the state's leading gun lobby.

It is among the latest efforts to arm or train teachers to confront assailants after a gunman killed his mother and then went on a rampage through Sandy Hook Elementary School in Newtown, Conn., killing 20 children and six adults before killing himself.

In Ohio, a firearms group said it was launching a test program in tactical firearms training for 24 teachers. In Arizona, the attorney general is proposing a change to state law that would allow an educator in each school to carry a gun.

The moves to train teachers come after the National Rifle Association proposed placing an armed officer at each of the nation's schools, though some schools already have police officers. Parents and educators have questioned how safe the proposal would keep kids and whether it would be economically feasible.

Some educators say it is dangerous to allow guns on campus. Among the potential dangers they point to are teachers being overpowered for their weapons or students getting them and accidentally or purposely shooting classmates.

"It's a terrible idea," said Carol Lear, a chief lawyer for the Utah Office of Education. "It's a horrible, terrible, no-good, rotten idea."

Kristen Rand, the legislative director for the Violence Policy Center, a gun control advocacy organization, said to believe that a "teacher would be successful in stopping someone who has made the decision to engage in a shootout is just not rationale."

"No teacher is ever going to be as effective as a trained law enforcement officer," Rand said. Even trained police officers don't always hit their targets, and arming teachers could put innocent students at risk of crossfire, she said.

Gun-rights advocates say teachers can act more quickly than law enforcement in the critical first few minutes to protect children from the kind of deadly shooting that took place in Connecticut. They emphasized the importance of reacting appropriately under pressure.

"We're not suggesting that teachers roam the halls" looking for an armed intruder, said Clark Aposhian, chairman of the Utah Shooting Sports Council, the state's biggest gun lobby. "They should lock down the classroom. But a gun is one more option if the shooter" breaks into a classroom.

The group waived its $50 fee for the training. Instruction featured plastic guns and emphasized that people facing deadly threats should announce or show their gun and take cover before trying to shoot. They cautioned teachers about the liability that comes with packing a gun in public.

"It's going to be a hassle. It's another responsibility. You can't just leave your gun lying around," Aposhian said. "Not for a minute."

The teachers at the basic gun training applied for a concealed-weapons permit, submitting fingerprints and a mug shot for a criminal background check. The class kicked off as an instructor in the "psychology of mass violence" offered various tactics to disrupt an assailant.

The first, the instructor said, was to start with the command: "Stop right there!"

"I wouldn't hesitate to shoot if the danger was immediate," said Fiveash, adding that her laser sight would make shooting in tight quarters safer.

English teacher Kevin Leatherbarrow said he often felt threatened while working at an inner-city school in Buffalo, N.Y., where he got a license to carry a pistol. He moved less than a year ago to Utah, where he feels safer. But he said gun violence can break out anywhere.

Leatherbarrow said he was highly trained in handling guns — and was taking criticism from parents who don't appreciate his views on school safety.

"I'm in agreement not everybody should be carrying firearms in school. They're not trained. But for some parents to think we're cowboys, that frustrates me," he said. "I wish parents would understand."

In the U.S., the number of homicides at schools of children, ages 5-18, have been lower year-by-year in the 2000s than they were in the mid- to late-1990s, according to the Bureau of Justice Statistics report on school crime released in 2012. At 32 deaths, the 2006-2007 school year was the only one that reached the levels from the 1990s. The manner of death was not listed.

Utah is among a few states that let people carry licensed concealed weapons into public schools without exception, the National Conference of State Legislatures says in a 2012 compendium of state gun laws.

Utah educators say they would ban guns if they could, but legislators left them with no choice. State law forbids schools, districts or college campuses from imposing their own gun restrictions.

Educators say they have no way of knowing how many teachers are armed. Gun-rights advocates estimate 1 percent of Utah teachers, or 240, are licensed to carry concealed weapons. It's not known how many do so at school.

"I never felt threatened in 14 years of teaching, but I don't think you can be too prepared," said Tiffany Parry, a dance teacher in the Salt Lake City suburb of Sandy who applied for Thursday for a license to carry a concealed gun. "I think it could come in handy."

 

Comments

Centauri

http://www.mrctv.org/videos/fein...
"During a "60 Minutes" interview on February 5, 1995 when discussing the federal assault weapons ban, Sen. Feinstein commented she'd get an out right ban if she could.

"If I could have gotten 51 votes in the Senate of the United States for an out right ban, picking up every one of them....Mr. and Mrs. America, turn them all in. I would have done it. I could not do that. The votes weren't here," Feinstein said.

Why do you people elect these rich and powerful elite millionaires to represent you? They decide how you, the average American, will live and by their rules and decisions.

http://usgovinfo.about.com/od/us...
"U.S. Sen. Dianne Feinstein, a Democrat from California, reported a net worth of between $46 million and $108.1 million in 2010, according to financial disclosures.

U.S. Sen. Dianne Feinstein is one of 261 millionaire members of Congress, according to an analysis of personal wealth conduct by the Center for Responsive Politics."

Centauri

"They were also a bunch of drunks. No one knows if they were drunk when they picked up the quill....."

How about the judges in a court of law when they decide cases or public officials when they passed laws? Were they drunk? There have been some very stupid decisions by judges and law makers.

eriemom

In a free market economy it is necessary for the gun and ammunitions industry to have customers enough to keep production up. Our military uses these products most when we are at war. Consumers are the pawns that keep this industry profitable even when we are not at war. The alternative is to make the industry government run. Since American is a paranoid society that will never happen. The result is the most paranoid among us use our paranoia to be able to buy guns and ammunition developed for military use against us.

With this in mind, why would anyone think that the answer is to add more guns to the problem. We feed the problem when we make the argument that the bad guys already have these guns, so we should arm good guys with the same. Where does it stop? Will we have a tank in every garage?

Take the guns away from the bad guys. If we can't find a way to stop the flow of military style weapons, then stop the flow of ammunition.

goofus

"Among the many misdeeds of the British rule in India, history will look upon the Act depriving a whole nation of arms as the blackest." - Mahtma Gandhi, Indian Political Leader

OMG.LOL.WT_

EXACTLY!

2cents

From free public.com:

(Posted on Monday, December 31, 2012 6:07:18 PM

“I know the sense of helplessness that people feel. I know the urge to arm yourself because that’s what I did. I was trained in firearms. I walked to the hospital when my husband was sick. I carried a concealed weapon and I made the determination if somebody was going to try and take me out, I was going to take them with me,” said Feinstein.

Hypocrisy Feinstein?

Despite calling in the same year for an outright ban on all firearms, Senator Dianne Feinstein, who is set to introduce legislation that would gut the second amendment, said in 1995 that she carried a concealed gun in order to protect herself against terrorists. Yes Dianne more terrorists and crime should mean continued rights and freedoms to protect ourselves.

Michael Moore immediately went public to exploit the Newtown shooting in calling for draconian gun control legislation, yet his own bodyguard was arrested for carrying an unlicensed weapon at in New York’s JFK airport back in 2005.)

The Big Dog's back

Getting desperate quoting from free rethuglic?

goofus

Sort of like quoting crooks and liars huh??????

2cents

I know the sense of helplessness that people feel. I know the urge to arm yourself because that's what I did. I was trained in firearms. I'd walk to the hospital when my husband was sick. I carried a concealed weapon. I made the determination that if somebody was going to try to take me out, I was going to take them with me." -- 27 April 1995 [28][29]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pol...

2cents

(Thursday how to safely use her 9 mm Ruger with a laser sight.)

That picture is sad, she owns that firearm and yet looks like she is afraid of it, she probably did not have one min of firearms training. Like I said n a previous post, a 12 hour course, a license you carry to own or purchase a firearm. Just like a drivers license, you better know what you have in your hand and how to use it lady!!!!!

sanduskysteve

Looks to me like she has her eyes closed - that would work out just great in a room full of school kids.

Mr Bean

I look for an intelligent discussion, I find THIS? Rather than offer some solution, you prattle! Sad, Right ON!----------Concealed carry works!-----pick up a book by John R. Lott, titled: More Guns, Less Crime---the results over the last 30 years have been phenominal.---

vicariouslyAlive

the picture only shows a rudimentary mistake most unseasoned shooters make, and that's cocked the head back because of the action of the slide... nothing more... even people completely interested in shooting start of by making that mistake... it's an instinctive posture... learning how to confidently lean your head forward to aim instead of away is learned just like hitting a ball with a bat. it's all in the amount of practice...

it's either that our she's simply lining up the sights without the intent of pulling the trigger just yet... pulling the gun away from your face give you a huge frame of reference on the outer parts of the gun... to make a precise shot you're not worried about that stuff but rather the 3 dots that make up the iron sights... again... rookie move... but at least this woman is taking the necessary steps to be better aquatinted with her gun of choice thus making it safer for not only the people around her, but herself when she handles the gun. better a short course on safety and aiming than no course at all.

2cents

Same guy better picture.

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-k8uCF3...

Centauri

My opinion is that teachers having guns in the school is a good idea. Think about it as insurance and hope to never use it. I would expect more training for teachers than is needed for the average CCW license holders. Not only should the course include basic handling of a firearm but more advanced knowledge should be taught about ammunition and bullet ballistics. The courses should be more intense like those for the police and practice at the range should be included in the future. Police practice at the range to keep their skills and so should the teachers or other school employees.

http://www.projectcensored.org/t...

The above link should be a concern to everybody. Beware of the powers that be that want to disarm the citizens.

"If I could have gotten 51 votes in the Senate of the United States for an out right ban, picking up every one of them....Mr. and Mrs. America, turn them all in. I would have done it. I could not do that. The votes weren't here,"

Dianne Feinstein (February 5, 1995)

Centauri

http://www.mediafreedominternati...

"Within a relatively short period of time the United States has become an increasingly monitored and militarized society. The Patriot Act was the first major erosion of our civil liberties. Over the past decade this erosion has greatly deepened including surprising developments this last year – including passage of the National Defense Authorization Act and the signing of the National Defense Resources Preparedness executive order signed by President Obama. Among a variety of surprising authorizations, the NDAA now allows the military to indefinitely detain without trial any U.S. citizen that the government labels a terrorist or an accessory to terrorism… seemingly expanding the definition of terrorism to include citizen activists. The above executive order authorizes widespread federal and military control of the national economy and resources during “emergency and non-emergency conditions” as well as the right to install “government owned equipment” in private industrial facilities."

Dr. Information

I see someone can't win so they get all my non attacking non anything posts removed. Typical liberal.

Rabbi

All it takes is for the wrong kid on the wrong day to pi$$ off a hot head teacher, and students are getting shot. PLace resource officers in every school. The economic feasability shouldn't even be a part of the conversation.

beepx22

just like wild west shootouts, and killing each other over parking spaces, all the blood in the streets stuff that has never happened right. If a teacher wanted to kill a kid, no one's gonna stop them now. By the way, I believe over 600 teachers and staff in ohio have signed up for our version of this, though i have to verify that yet.

BW1's picture
BW1

Rabbi, you've made it clear that agents of the state, such as teachers, should supersede parental authority. Why would you vest so much power in a group in which you have so little faith?

arnmcrmn

Dems in Illinois going after all modern handguns and rifles.......

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/...

Wont pass, but you can see how the liberals think. If by chance it would, all gun companies have already said they will pack up and move. Bad deal for a state that is hurting unemployment wise.

Centauri

http://www.naturalnews.com/03835...
"(NaturalNews) Adam Lanza's armed massacre of young students in Newton, Conn. is being celebrated by the mainstream media. It's also being celebrated by Obama administration officials who publicly shed a tear but behind the scenes are no doubt high-fiving each other over the opportunity to push their agenda of citizen disarmament."

"This is precisely why Eric Holder and the Obama administration staged Operation Fast & Furious as a way to put guns directly into the hands of Mexican drug gangs, with the hope that those guns would multiply the number of violent shootings in states like Arizona, New Mexico, Texas and California."

"The pharmaceutical industry is at least partially responsible for many of these shootings, as it is their own drugs which cause young males to become violent and detached. The vast majority of shooters over the last two decades have all been taking prescription medications such as antidepressant drugs (which are known to cause violent, suicidal behavior).

But the real benefit to Big Pharma from the school shootings is that such events traumatize other children who can then be "diagnosed" with fictitious psychiatric disorders which are invented solely for the purpose of selling more prescription medications to children who don't need them."

sanduskysteve

That is the biggest bunch of crap I have ever heard of. Now we are going to blame pharmaceuticals and we are still making Obama to be the creator of "Fast and Furious"? He had nothing to do with the creation of this - it was your hero, Bush. I'm not too sure the purpose was to give them guns either - if it was, the Bush is to blame. It's about time to stop watching FNC, like about 25% of the rest of the followers have done. Unfair and Unbalanced talk tv.

beepx22

sorry, Fast and Furious was Obama's kid, Bush's tracking operation was shut down when it was discovered it wasn't effective, that the Gangs in Mexico where removing the tracking tags. you hurt you're own cause by being some awfully misinformed, constantly.

arnmcrmn

@steve. I have been blogging longer than you and I just have to call you to the carpet. Nearly everything you post is false. You said early in the form that Fox News ratings are dropping like flies, which I easily proved wrong......See link in early post. Then you say Bush created Fast and Furious.

Operation "gunwalking" or otherwise known as Operation Wide Receiver was created and ran from 2006-2008 (under the Bush administration) and was shut down because it was ineffective, poorly managed, and ran amuck and the legal council involved said that evidence was so poorly managed that they could not legally build a case. So it ended.

Operation Fast and Furious started in October of 2009, well into the Obama administration and had absolutely nothing to do with Bush. We all know the outcome of F&F, so I won't bore you all with the details.

If you are going to try and make a point sanduskysteve, at least have the right information. Geez. Google who created fast and furious and you will easily find all the information you need.

Take the political blinders off man, if you can't bring facts, then don't start the argument or get involved.

Centauri

Operation Fast and Furious (Obama)

Operation Wide Receiver (Bush)

http://www.theblaze.com/stories/...

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