It's not just taxes: Benefit cuts divide Dems

It's not just about taxes. There's another big obstacle to overcome as Congress and President Barack Obama work to skirt the fiscal cliff: deep divisions among Senate Democrats over whether to consider cuts to popular benefit programs like Medicare and Medicaid.
Associated Press
Nov 28, 2012

 

Much of the focus during negotiations seeking an alternative to $671 billion in automatic tax increases and spending cuts beginning in January has centered on whether Republicans would agree to raising taxes on the wealthy. Obama insists that tax increases on the wealthy must be part of any deal, even as White House officials concede that government benefit programs will have to be in the package too.

But even if GOP lawmakers agree to raise taxes, there is no guarantee Democrats can come up with enough votes in the Senate to cut benefit programs — as Republicans are demanding.

"We cannot come up with the solution for Medicare in the next two or three weeks," said Sen. Dick Durbin of Illinois, the No. 2 Democrat in the Senate. "It's too important, it's too serious, when it comes to this fiscal cliff debate."

Durbin has long said Democrats must be willing to discuss cuts to benefit programs in exchange for tax increases on the wealthy. But, he said Wednesday, the issue is too complicated to address in a short postelection session of Congress.

Republicans complain that Democrats are taking issues off the table, even as more GOP lawmakers are reluctantly considering tax increases.

"Democrats like to pretend as though they're the great protectors of Social Security, Medicare and Medicaid," said Senate Republican Leader Mitch McConnell of Kentucky. "They make solemn pledges all the time about how they won't even entertain a discussion about reform. What they don't say is that ignoring these programs is the surest way to guarantee their collapse."

There's a growing consensus among Senate Democrats and the White House that Social Security should be exempt from any deficit-reduction package. But some centrist Democrats in the Senate argue that fellow Democrats must be willing to consider cuts to Medicare and Medicaid in order to get concessions from Republicans on taxes.

"It has to be both — a significant revenue increase as well as spending cuts," said Sen. Max Baucus, D-Mont., chairman of the Senate Finance Committee.

Sen. Kent Conrad, D-N.D., who is retiring as chairman of the Senate Budget Committee, said rising health care costs in Medicare and Medicaid are helping to drive future spending, making them an essential part of a long-term deficit-reduction package.

"I've been part of every bipartisan group here. We've always put everything on the table," Conrad said. "If you're going to solve this problem, you're going to have to deal with where the spending is and the revenue can be raised."

But senators like Baucus and Conrad increasingly are being drowned out by other Democrats emboldened by the recent election results to fight against benefit cuts.

"I think the election spoke very strongly about the fact that the vast majority of American people don't want to cut these programs," said Sen. Tom Harkin, D-Iowa.

Further complicating the issue, some Democrats say they are willing to look for savings in programs like Medicare and Medicaid, as long as cuts don't lead to higher costs for beneficiaries. Obama's new health care law, for example, assumes more than $700 billion in Medicare savings over the next decade.

"I'm willing to look at ways of making the programs work better," Harkin said.

Congress and the White House are devoting the next three weeks to finding at least a bridge over the fiscal cliff by reducing the sudden jolt of higher taxes and spending cuts in January while laying a framework for addressing the nation's long-term financial problems next year.

Obama wants to let tax rates rise for wealthy families while sparing middle- and low-income taxpayers. Some Republican leaders, including House Speaker John Boehner of Ohio, have said they were willing to consider making the wealthy pay more by reducing their tax breaks. But most Republicans in Congress adamantly oppose raising anyone's tax rates.

Negotiations are going slowly as each side waits for the other to make concessions.

Democrats already have tried to take Social Security off the table. White House press secretary Jay Carney said this week that changes to the massive retirement and disability program should be done separately from any plan to reduce the deficit. That's the same position taken by 28 Democratic senators and independent Sen. Bernie Sanders of Vermont in a letter to fellow senators in September.

"We will oppose including Social Security cuts for future or current beneficiaries in any deficit-reduction package," said the letter, which was signed by many top Democrats, including Majority Leader Harry Reid of Nevada. In the House, Democratic leader Nancy Pelosi has taken the same position, not only on Social Security, but also on Medicare and Medicaid.

"There hasn't been the slightest suggestion about what they're going to do about the real problems, and that's entitlements," said Sen. Orrin Hatch of Utah, the top Republican on the Senate Finance Committee. "There's a certain cockiness that I've seen that is really astounding to me since we're basically in the same position we were before" the election.

 

Comments

OMG.LOL.WT_

End welfare for the wealthy
http://www.cnn.com/2011/12/01/op...

JACKEL

Good point,we can't end it for anyone because we won't get reelected.They represent a large percent of the voters.Bozo is going to have a tough four years, based on the administration of the last four years.

SamAdams

Oh, for gods sake. Is there some reason so many people try to make this so much harder than it really is? Medicare and Medicaid (Social Security, too) need REFORMED, not necessarily cut (reform would result in savings all by itself). It's the useless or unnecessary nonsense that REALLY needs to be cut. Mohair subsidy, anybody? Studies on the sex lives of bees? (Maybe something useful does come of the latter, but why should the feds pay for it?) Bridges to nowhere. Kobe beef in the White House. See? Savings large and small.

Washington doesn't have an income problem. It has a SPENDING problem. And like any other shopaholic, the only way to get it under control is to just freaking STOP IT.

The Big Dog's back

Washington HAS an income problem.

Randy_Marsh

http://www.usdebtclock.org/ Not only is your argument invalid it is dumb.

wiredmama222

no, it has a spending problem...stop the congress from raising their own salaries would be a great start...they don't earn what they make now.

the office cat

WAshington has an income problem because it has to pay for wars and Medicare Advantage (someday) and all those Republican earmarks you mentioned. PLUS the trickle down from the Bush Taxcuts got caught in a waste dump somewhere.

mikel

cat, somewhere along the line you forgot to mention all of the money the prez is paying to those that are on the dole. and now, the idiot, wants to extend the social security tax break for another year!!! then shut up, democraps, about that being underfunded!

JACKEL

How about why does pigshxt smell.?Tax the rich as long as it gets the idiots in Washington!

wiredmama222

I agree, Sam. What idiot in Washington thinks it needs a study on the sex life of an earthworm and will give you an $600,000 grant to study it? How about $250,000 to study the corona of the sun for a winter in Alaska? Now there is something useful...seeing as how it is DARK there in the winter. Oh, the list goes on. Just go to the library and get the grant books. You will be amazed at what the government will give you for a well written grant. Its really stupid.

Cut that stuff out and you have half the battle won right there. You could fund a small country on what you would save.

And while I am on that, why are we giving money to small countries when WE need it? If we are in such bad shape, why are we sending money to places like Pakistan, Somalia and other countries? We borrow it to give it away? What nonsense is that? Cut the funding. We should not be giving aide to any of those countries.

There are so many goof ups its dumb. If we can't pay our bills, then we need to cut costs. We should start with the dumb stuff first.

goofus

The latest from Obozo is more stimulus to make up for the slowing down of the economy from raising taxes. People really voted for the buffoon!! Now we have 135 pages of new rules for the IRS, thanks O

OMG.LOL.WT_

“A congressman has two ends, a thinking end and a sitting end. Since his entire career depends on his seat, why bother, friend?”

donutshopguy

Let's all watch our elected officials "kick the can down the road" until it's over the cliff. Can someone in Washington, Columbus or Erie County "grow a pair" and make decisions that will allow my kids and grandkids to have a country to live in.

the office cat

donutshopguy... we can only hope it goes over the cliff. Unlike a year ago, we'll have a more controllable Congress that can salvage it before any cuts occur - except the upper 2% - and then Congress can look at reform (or maybe paying back all the money borrowed to balance Reagan budgets...

donutshopguy

With the absents of real leaders the voting public will elect a dictator to solve their problems. Now it's scary.

Randy_Marsh

Those who forget the past are condemned to repeat it. Just look at Dog.

Darwin's choice

" Ineptocracy ", A form of government where the least capable of leading are elected by the least capable of producing, and where the members of the population least likely to sustain themselves or succeed, are rewarded with goods and services paid for by the confiscated(taxed) wealth of a diminishing number of producers.

I think we've made it here.........

donutshopguy

Darwin's choice,

The word of the decade. "Ineptocracy"........ We are there!

mikel

let's go overrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr..ahhhhhhhhhhh.....boom!!!!

please oh annointed one just what cuts you are going to make. all that spews out of your mouth is that you want to raise taxes and have a plan for that. you then say that cuts also need to be made. sooooo, what are they?

the office cat

Mikel... I'm driving the bus!!! All you TEAlemmings and Firelands Patriots jump on! Nothing major will happen except the automatic end of Bush Tax Cuts. Military can be restored and Middle Class tax cuts after January 3 when the new Congress is sworn in. Giddyup go!!!!

Contango

We will either practice austerity or austerity will be thrust upon us and at a time not of our choosing.

"The crisis is not an outgrowth of the abandonment of the expansionist policy.

It is the inextricable and unavoidable aftermath of this policy. The question is only whether one should continue expansionism until the final collapse of the whole monetary and credit system or whether one should stop at an earlier date.

The sooner one stops, the less grievous are the damages inflicted and the losses suffered."

- Ludwig von Mises, "The Trade Cycle and Credit Expansion: The Economic Consequences of Cheap Money." (1946)

the office cat

Contango... and what WAS the 1946 answer to continued expansionism... wasn't that the era of "The Greatest Generation", Ike's huge infrastructure program to build National HIghways, the suburban housing boom, the Man in the Gray Flannel suit,,,? Your point? Of course, it WAS against the law to own gold.

Contango

@ the office cat:

Yea, Truman went to war in Korea - boosts GDP.

Also, the county wasn't up to it's eyeballs in debt in the 1950s as it is now and the world's manufacturing wasn't in shambles.

No comparison.

The Big Dog's back

The working middle class working person has been paying their fair share for the last 30 years. It's time for the wealthy to step up to the plate. Time to tax unearned income the same as working income.

Pete

First loophole I would close is the union dues deduction as a "professional association". Being a socialist should not be a deduction.
Next tax all union holdings and income like regular businesses. Not for profit is a joke.

the office cat

Pete. First, though, apply your hatchet to churches...politics has no place in the sanctuary.

Pete

At least churches have morals. Unions, not so much. Very little if any in their ranks.

The Big Dog's back

People in glass houses shouldn't throw stones.

KURTje

Start cutting ALL elected servants pay & bennies starting at the top.

jon491

Stop giving 2 BILLION a year to Pakistan,for nothing.

the office cat

Kurt... "elected servant" is an oxymoron...no?

Randy_Marsh

You guys want to elect a god that all.

Kimo

What kURTje said....

coasterfan

Exit polls showed that 60% of voters believe that the 1% should pay a higher tax rate, which is another way of saying that 60% of people disagree with the Republican economic plan. Austerity is not the answer, as most leading economic experts have stated that this mindset would only force another recession. Regardless of whether or not you like Economic Stimulus, it does work, and was absolutely the right thing to do in 2008-09 (Paul Ryan thought so, anyway, since he requested federal stimulus funds for Wisconsin, saying that "it would help his state recover").

Am surprised that some conservatives are STILL acting as if they have "all the answers", when it's clear they do not. Also, can someone give them a wake-up call? Their party lost the election, which means 2 things: #1, their viewpoint is a minority viewpoint and #2, they have little leverage to force their agenda.

Am glad to see that some Republican leaders are finally waking up from their slumber, and are opposing Grover Norquist. I want MY congressman to represent me, not to pledge his/her vote (and soul) away to some special interest group like Norquist's for all eternity.

Randy_Marsh

Coaster
When you promise cash and prizes the sheep will flock to you, When the money runs out and austerity hits we will know who to blame.

coasterfan

Oh, baloney, Randy... If the money runs out, I'll blame Republicans, who refused to increase revenue, when it was so painfully obvious that more revenue was needed. Fifty years ago, the richest paid a 90% tax rate; today, they pay less than 20%. Same obligations, but we're bringing in less money, and we can thank Ronald Reagan for that.

Can't believe you swallowed the silly Romney line about Obama's "gifts of cash and prizes". As if helping out the middle class (who had been trampled on by the Bush administration) is a bad thing. Mitt, of course, could have offered the same benefits to the middle class, but he chose to appeal to the 1% instead. Only problem was that Mitt's favored 1% only made up 1% of the vote. He promised them huge tax breaks, deregulation and huge exemptions on capital gains. By your reasoning, we could call it "cash and prizes" Romney offered to millionaires.

Has there EVER been a bigger sore loser than Mitt Romney?

Darwin's choice

Coasterfan....I can't believe that your savior hasn't tapped you to be the economic advisor for the U.S. You're always correct with your hindsight! By the way, what is the national debt now?

Randy_Marsh

So tax the rich, How much does that raise? 6oo billion over 10 years, we hand that out to special interest in a year so who to tax then? Cutting your cash and prizes for campaign donors (Anyone say soylendra?) needs to be done but look at the actual debt and how much we spend (I would say budget but the obstructionist senate will not pass one)

the office cat

Ok Marsh.... what about the billions from the Kocks, the Vegas guy and others? Think about how much that could have paid down the National Deficit? And for what? Their wealth has been redistributed. Pres. Obama has four more years. Democrats have more controll in Congress - Democrats got more votes for Congress but the Gerrymander protected the Reps.

Randy_Marsh

Office cat
You obviously do not know economics. The government spends 20 billion per day. The koch brothers are worth a estimated 50 billion together. So you have run the government for 2 days? What next? Tax more billionairs and run the rich completly out of the country for what? The debt is at 16 trillion, Thats more than the whole country is worth.
http://realdealpolitics.com/blog...
worth/http://www.celebritynetworth.com...

the office cat

Coaster... who besides me realized the Norquist pledge was signed by many in 1996 when GOoPs controlled Congress?

mikel

odumbo: "we must raise taxes because our country suffers without more income. i also like to spend money very stupidly on things like:

WASHINGTON – The Obama administration provided struggling battery maker A123 Systems Inc with nearly $1 million on the day it filed for bankruptcy, the company told lawmakers investigating its government grant

Read more: http://www.foxbusiness.com/news/..."

really? are you dems that silly to think this guy knows what he is doing?

Darwin's choice
the office cat

Mikel... ya know, Mikelly MOuse, it's tiime you stopped calling the president names. It only proves you have nothing of worth to add to the conversation.. And you dare to post a fox news link - the people who predicted,.. wait a minute, I gotta stop laffing.... whew!... the people who predicted a Romney landslide?

mikel

reallyyyyyyy!!! i post that prezo has given $millions$ to a company on the day it filed for bankruptcy. people on here want to know who, how, when, where, why. so, i give them that info. maybe the SR reporters could do their jobs and provide that info!!

OMG.LOL.WT_

One of the most blatant examples of corporate welfare is the bloated system of agricultural price supports. From 1995 to 2004 the federal government provided agricultural subsidies of over $143 billion.

Another classic example of how the well-to-do fleece the taxpayers is the multiplicity of “joint ventures” between the government and big business. Projects such as sports stadiums, railroads, or even amusement parks are deemed “too big for the private sector.”

Another source of systematic welfare is the “cost-plus” method of payment. Here, the government doesn’t settle on an actual price for goods or services delivered, but rather agrees to meet the contractor’s expenses plus some markup.

The Small Business Administration (SBA) is another agency with an apparently noble mission that nonetheless acts in reverse-Robin Hood fashion. In 2005 the SBA announced that $79.6 billion in federal contracts were awarded to “small businesses.” However, according to the New York Times, some of this money went to mom-and-pop organizations such as Northrop Grumman, Boeing, Bechtel, and General Dynamics. Indeed, the Christian Science Monitor reports that almost $5 billion of the contracts classified as “small business” were for the 13 largest government contractors.

shucks

Obama is far better than Romney.

Randy_Marsh

You live in a alternitive universe that he is the president? How do you know? Gimmie winning lotto tickets.

shucks

strange

the office cat

4... see. just mention Obama and 'four more years' at the same time and they become discombulated and reduced to babble.

Randy_Marsh

He said Obama is better than Romney, How does he know if Romney never was president? Its not babble to english speaking people with common sense.

shucks

@ marsh

I paid attention to what Romney said, and what he did; also I paid attention to Fox News.
It was very obvious he/Fox wasn't for America but for himself and his rich, power hungry buddies.
All the fear buzz words/propaganda the GOP used to try to scare people into voting Republican such as: communism, socalism,dictatorship, were just smoke to cover the word: Plutonomy.

Randy_Marsh

@4shizzle
We live in a duopoly already, So how is Obama better? Do you know what Romney would have did? (I'll give you a hint, Romney is a progressive and would have done just as much damage as Obama is going to do)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v...

shucks

@marsh
1.Not duopoly but plutonomy. There is a difference, right?

2."Romney is a progressive" means what? He's a RINO ?

3.And if Romney was going to do as much "damage" as Obama, shouldn't you be a Romney hater too?

Randy_Marsh

4shizzle
There is a difference, But the difference is economic. A duopoly is that you are only given 2 choices for election. A Plutonomy is where there would be more than two but they all lead to the rich, This is not the case. Yes you can say romney is a RINO, Obamacare is based off of Romney works as governor. 3. I didnt vote for Romney either, But of the two (Obama and romney) Sticking with the same guy who has done nothing but blame others for the last 4 years is ther definition of insanity according to Einstien. The guy i voted for was not invited to the debates because he made too much sense and didnt promise everything under the sun as a gimmick.

shucks

@Cat
It was fun to watch Karl Rove get all spastic.

The New World Czar

Why the AP gives Durbin as much airtime as they do is beyond me. He comes from the basket-case fiscal state of Illinois. What do they, California, and New York have in common besides Democrat governors and legislatures? Unsustainable debt, high unemployment, and skyrocketing public employee pension liability.

mikel

i was thinking the same thing! how can anyone of those individuals possibly right the country if they can't help their states?

the office cat

Mikel... you was thinkin'? How'd you let that happen? Just look at Texas. And Arizona. And Ohio...

mikel

none of the states you have mentioned cat are in more dire straights than illinois and california. both of those states are in the same boat as the fed gov't and that is they will neverrrrrrrrrrr be solvent again. not even close. they all have one thing in common = they have been led down the road to total financial doom by democraps.

is this ok moderators? not to long? tried to be original. i hope this doesn't conflict with your theory.

goofus

Yes, let's look at texas with it's 15th largest economy in the world!!!

Contango

"Residents Are Fleeing High Taxes In These 5 States":

http://www.businessinsider.com/r...

As they say in Texas: The best thing that's happened to TX is CA.

deertracker

Obama haters = LOSERSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSS!

Contango

Basel III has ruled that gold is money effective 1/1/13.

"...in the banking world, what they say goes."

http://seekingalpha.com/article/...

Take the hint.

Watch Japan, it's the weakest world currency and may be the first to collapse - "canary in the coal mine."

--------------------

@ coasterfan:

In your personal finances: See if you can maximize borrowing and spending to make yourself wealthy.

Keynesianism as the Progs have misunderstood it is on the verge of collapse.

All ya need is one serious world crisis or black swan event to bring the whole world-wide hundreds of trillions of debt financed house of cards tumbling down.

the office cat

oooooooooooooooooooo doomsayer. And then what good will your gold be with no one to buy it?

Contango

@ the office cat:

"No one to buy it"? That makes no sense if gold is money.

So why will banks be allowed to hold gold as a Tier 1 asset?

Go ahead; put all your trust in a suicide fiat currency that has become increasingly worthless.

Remember: You will be able to trade your gold for currency, but you won't always be able to trade your worthless currency for gold.

Yea, countries NEVER go broke. LMAO!!!!

SamAdams

Again, not that hard: FLAT TAX. Lower the rates, and make ZERO exceptions. Income gets taxed the same as capital gains gets taxed the same as dividends gets taxed the same as winnings, etc. and so on. Income would go up; income TAXES would go down. There, now how fair is THAT? So why, pray tell, are those weeping about "fairness" not interested in truly simple, comprehensive, and FAIR tax reform? It's because they're not interested in "fair." They're interested in redistribution. The end.

mikel

well said!

the office cat

Oh Samantha. That's just what the Kocks and Sheldon and the Donald are thinkin' after the redistribution of their wealth.
FLAT TAX. Only works if Contango has to report all his gold and all those offshore monies also are reported. Ya see, that's always been the problem. If all that offshore money was taxed - even at the current Bush rates - there wouldn't be an income/revenue problem. The only way 99% of Americans can put their money offshore is to toss it in the ocean or Lake Erie.

Contango

@ the office cat:

By law, my investment firms annually report the value of all my investments to the govt. and they've done so for yrs.

Keep spewing the personal financial ignorance of the Progs.

Contango

@ SA:

Ain't gonna happen. The Progs like progressive tax rates and using the tax code for social engineering.

The Dims won't quit spending and the Repukes don't have the political will to stop 'em. It can only end one way.

There are still idiots in Russia who celebrate and long for Stalin every May Day.

They "won," ya know? The kids wanted more ice cream and candy for dinner.

IMO, protect yourself financially as best you can. For one: Little to no debt.

SamAdams

Sadly, you're right on every single point...

I'm not sure what will protect ANY of us financially, at least not for long. Little to no debt is never a bad idea, of course, no matter the economy. But even if you owe nothing, that's not going to pay all of those higher (in some cases, MUCH higher) bills that are going to be coming due! Between the fed printing money like it's paper (and soon to be valued just about the same) and exorbitant spending (like "Obamacare"), almost all of us are about to be thoroughly scr3wed. And that includes those currently living off the labor of the rest of us! What happens to their checks when even fewer of us can afford to pay taxes, hmmmmm?

Four more years...hah. We'll be lucky if we have ONE.

Randy_Marsh

http://cnsnews.com/news/article/... Now they want to get rid of the debt limit. If there is no debt limit why pay taxes, They can just print more?

Contango

The next potential sub-prime crisis? Student loan debt. No credit check needed - free money!!!!

Mr. Obama had the govt. take over lending in 2010. Now at $1T USD outstanding.

"Payments on 11% of student-loan balances were 90 or more days behind at the end of September, up from 8.9% at the end of June, a rate that now exceeds that for credit cards."

http://redalertpolitics.com/2012...

Got your financial Maalox ready?

Randy_Marsh

Thats Obamacare for you, Creating Ulcers for students and economic advisors everywhere.

the office cat

youse guys is so funny!!! Many of you cited voting for Obamney and said it wouldn't be any different no matter who won.
Idea for ya! Serve Christmas dinner in a homeless shelter. Better yet, leave all your credit cards and cash and stuff in someone's custody and go spend a week sleeping on and walking the streets. Try hopelessness on for size... it'll be good practice for the 'great fall' you predict arrives. Karma cometh. Got those pockets installed in your casket yet?

Randy_Marsh

Office cat
Why dont YOU redistribute YOUR wealth? Put your money where your mouth is.

Contango

@ the office cat:

So there'll NEVER be another severe economic depression? Keep the faith; believe in the magic of Mr. Obama. LMAO!!!

anthras

OCat I did spend my Thanksgiving serving dinners to the needy and I did send my kids a letter advising that I do not need anything for Christmas and I do feel blessed that my kids all have worked hard and have no needs also. For that reason I did send the letter to my kids a letter advising that this year they will receive a really nice Christmas card and my love but no gifts as I will be giving what I normally spend on gifts to charity and in they personally knew of a family that was in need I would send them an anonymous gift or pre paid debit card and requested in lieu of any gifts for me that they do the same.

the office cat

Let's get this buggy over the cliff!!!!
Then put 12 behind us and move into lucky 13 with a more sensible Congress and the realization we can restore necessary military cuts, reinstate SS Medicare Medicaid before any checks even have to be written and before the paperwork can be done to reduce the benefits.
We can set about on serious reform of taxes, programs and the military.
We can move forward with sensible cuts on middle class taxes.
And Obamacare is the law of the land and seniors continue benefittin as they have already - as well as growing realization of the greatness of the act.
Most importantly, 18 states will repay the federal government all they owe for infrastructure, disaster relief, etc. and then secede to become Mississippi with Romney as president.
Ah yes. GIDDYUP!!!

Contango

@ the office cat:

So who's buying all the trillions of dollars more of Treasury debt of this Brave New World you've designed; the Federal Reserve?

Love the magical Obamanomics. LMAO!!!

mikel

putty tat says - "reinstate SS Medicare Medicaid" your messiah has again asked congress to extend the cuts to social security payroll tax. ??? in case he is not smart enough to realize that this is already underfunded and this will be the third year that he wants to suspend payroll taxes to that fund. this guy does not have any idea how to run a financial entity. already broke so you want to stop making payments?

Contango

Mr. Obama is not dealing in good faith. He wants $1.6T in tax increases, $50B in new spending and the power to raise the debt ceiling without Congressional approval.

Spending cuts will come partially by way of paying Medicare providers like doctors and hospitals less.

Reads like Mr. Obama wants to see a fiscal crisis in order to help collapse the economy.

Got gold?

http://www.cnbc.com/id/50016612

The Big Dog's back

Fascists just can stand it when Progressives improve the economy. Backwards, Fascists.

goofus

Agree with Randy, how can the senate vote to raise taxes when they have failed miserably to produce a budget!! When I was working and had a cash flow problem, I didn't demand my boss pay me more, I cut back on my spending!!!

OMG.LOL.WT_

It seems NO ONE wants to discuss the welfare for the rich.
Just cut Medicare and SS and we will all be fine.

shucks

Yes,
The rich NEED more money to send to Swiss banks and the Caymen Islands.

goofus

Hey liberal bots, you're on the wrong website, your savior wants you on twitter and you tube.
http://www.reagancoalition.com/a...

The Big Dog's back

Psssst, goof. The election is over, no need for right wing propaganda.

Randy_Marsh

Psst, Dog. The election IS over and Its Obama's fault now.

The Big Dog's back

What's Obama's fault? Oh, that the economy is improving? People feel more confident? Yeah, I agree with you, Obama's "fault".

Randy_Marsh

Dog
Guess you do not read, listen or watch anything worth watching. People more confident? Confident their future looks less brighter than before yeah i would agree with that. Remember its Obama's ball, My advice is do not broadcast your political opinions too loud next year when the SHTF.

anthras

ya know I think the persons that feel the most confident are those that are receiving government wealfare yea four more years. I do not feel confident with my business as I feel he wants to take away from me to give to them.

OMG.LOL.WT_

It seems the very mention of welfare for the rich brings them out crying. Boo Hoo, we pay too much now. We won't create any jobs. We'll take our money and move to China...

KURTje

"Only the little people pay taxes." Leona Helmsly.

anthras

Did not have a chance to read all the posts however I was wondering what about Obamacare? The CBO is projecting a cost of 1.9 trillion and will leave 30 million still uninsured. The number of uninsured may be low as there are many companies now announcing placing many employees at 28 or less hours per week. Maybe some of you may have noticed that AkzoNobel had an ad in this paper telling they would have a job fair as they were "seeking long term part time employees to work 16-28 hours per week"
In addition to the additional cost advised by the CBO let us not forget about the 650 billion in new taxes connected with Obamacare.

Ergo the 1.7 trillion in new taxes he wants from the rich will not even take care of Obamacare.

Although I am a conservative I do feel we need additional taxes however we also need spending cuts that will began at the same time as the new taxes we do not have a tax increase starting 1/1/13 and then say that the spending cuts will kick in in 2017 or some later date as it does not seem to happen that way.

Also when the government advises of a tax cut it is usually not a real cut just spending less than they had wanted.If we spend 10 billion for a budget item this year and they want 14 billion for that item next year but then cut it to 12 billion then they consider that a budget cut. That is if we have a budget which we haven't had since Obama became president

goofus

Never fear, Obozocare includes over twenty NEW taxes!!!

Free Man

want to save tax money ? close nasa plumbrook.

Centauri

http://dollarcollapse.com/dollar...

"And—here’s the crucial point—every single fiat currency that has existed prior to the current batch was eventually destroyed by its government."

"Add it all up, and U.S. debt now comes to about $60 trillion, or $800,000 per family of four, a clearly unsustainable burden. When our trading partners figure out that we’re no longer solvent, they’ll stop lending us money (that is, they’ll use their dollars to buy euros or yen or gold rather than U.S. bonds), and the value of the dollar will plunge. The process has already begun, with decreasing demand for dollars sending the value of the dollar down by more than a third in this decade. But this is just the beginning."

wiredmama222

Excuse me....I am in charge....the rich will now pay their fair share of taxes. Anyone making over $250,000 in income will pay for it with an increase in their personal taxes. Don't like it...move to Russia. The middle class will not have their taxes raised nor will businesses. We will no longer be funding places like Pakistan, India or Somolia. They can now fend for themselves. I am tired of their junk.

As for Isreal and the rest...they can just fight it out and we will be friends with the winners. Too bad, so sad. I am tired of hearing it. Isreal stop whining, I don't want to hear it any more. Do your own dirty work. I am not doing it for you any more.

As for Iran, stop yelling and stop threatening or I will kick your living arse. Got it. I HAVE the bomb so get off your high horse or I will blow your little country off the map. Be nice.

Bring the troops home. I am reopening all the coastline bases on our own shores and re stocking them with our own troops.

Every time the congress doesn't move something along or give me grief, I am going on TV and telling the entire country in PLAIN ENGLISH exactly why and what and who held it up and why you did it. Then I am going to encourage them to call the people who screwed up. So learn to cooperate with one another or you are going to spend a lot of time on the phone.

No more stupid grants. That stops not and NO MORE EARMARK MONEY. Oh, tell the lobbyists to go home. You take lobby money and I will send out a newletter to your state capital telling who you took it from and why. Then you can donate it to the fund to pay back China.

Listen, North Korea. I want to be friends, but if you try and shoot ONE missle to our shores from yours, make it a good one, it will be your last shot, Got it? Good. I don't take prisoners.

As for China. Figure out what we owe you and we will start paying it back.

To any company with overseas businesses. You better start figuring what a new tariff will cost you, VS what bringing the business back here will cost you because in 6 months I am starting a tariff that will increase ever six months that your business is overseas and that you could have brought it home. I want to see America work, not the Chinese.

We are going to start buying oil from Canada and Russia and digging our own. We are also going to start using corn oil so start builing factories to utilize it. Brazil does it and it works. So start building the factories for it.

We are going to redo roads immediately and bridges. We start in the south and work north as the weather allows. Get busy.
That's it. Get to work.

Meeing adjourned

Contango

@ wiredmama222:

So your planned political-economic model is a totalitarian-authoritarian regime like Cuba, N. Korea, Nazi Germany, et al?

Any figures on the casualties during the third civil war?

goofus

Ah the wonderfulness of an anti-semite, so refreshing!!!!

Meeing adjourned

OMG.LOL.WT_

What's an anti-semite? Jews and Arabs hate each other and guess what. They are both semitic.
Sem·ite (smt)
n.
1. A member of a group of Semitic-speaking peoples of the Near East and northern Africa, including the Arabs, Arameans, Babylonians, Carthaginians, Ethiopians, Hebrews, and Phoenicians.