KMN says

Bailey, I am a little confused.  I thought you said YOU were paying for your daugters medical school education.  But now, according to your wife...she has loans to be paid back after she graduates.  Could those loans possibly be the reduced interest loans from your tax dollars that griedy doctors use to buy their big expensive houses?????

You make many generalizations about ALL doctors.  Again, consolidation DOES NOT always lower you insterest rate.  It extends the period of repayment.  Most doctors will not have the opportunity for forgiveness of a PORTION of their loans as all areas are not deamed areas of NEED, as are not all specialities in medicine are eligible.

Your daughter will most likely not start out at the national average you hae provided and if she ends up in Sandusky, OH will not end up at the national average as Insurance companies payments to doctors also vary based on the cost of living.

I would love to chat 10 years from now when your daughter is in the BEGINNING of her career and she if she is really living the high life.  I also wish her a lot of luck as it appears she will have a lot of pressure to deal with .

Informed says

Bailey, again you are making assumptions.  I am far from wealthy and have my fair share of hard times.  What is it with you and the Sandusky Yacht Club?  You seem fixated on that.  I'm sorry that I don't think doctors make too much money.  Why is anyone who disagrees with you about that wrong?  You want to talk about health care costs?  What about insurance company executives?  They make more than doctors make.  I don't really understand what you want.  You ramble on and on, get mad at doctors going overseas to help, then when it's pointed out to you part of the reason they do so, you try to blame me for bringing it up when you were the one who originally did so.  I have never felt overcharged by a physician.  By a lab? Yes. By a hospital? Yes. By the doctor who treated me? No.  And those patients that you say were denied by NOMS--they are free to go anywhere else to see a different doctor.     

Bailey says

You are twisting the topic in an effort to misalign the facts. The topic is DOCTORS not a comparative study between doctors and athletes salaries. Doctors are necessary while sports is not. Keep to the subject and don’t try to sway the issue with stupid statements that compare Africa to America. We are talking about AMERICA’s medical care with is over priced and abused by its users, the insurance companies AND THE DOCTORS.  Yes, you answered a question but REFUSED to answer the main portion of it, WHERE IS THE CONTROL to the amount the public can be gouged to allow your desire to make doctors wealthy? How much is enough, my house, my neighbor’s home, how about letting the doctors own the entire city of Sandusky, is that enough for you? You’re so out of touch with reality you can’t relate to those IN AMERICA and have to go across the world to justify why the common citizen is overcharged for medical care. As I stated, it’s obvious the closest you’ve been to real poverty is driving to the Sandusky Yacht Club on Meigs street!

AFORDABLE medical care is a necessity, I do NOT agree with ANY of Obama’s or the liberals positions or solutions to this subject. However, I do believe and any normal person would say the MEDICAL profession ITSELF has brought this problem upon itself and the public by their greed. Once again, how much is enough? The charts I provided by organizations that are approved by the government and medical profession slammed the idea that doctors don’t make excellent money, so let’s hear your answer to this question since you claim you answer everything.

You said you want the doctor to make LOTS of money because they save lives. Ok, how much? WHO determines how much a surgery is, a prescription, the doctor? Everyone slams the health insurance companies but if it wasn’t for them it would be people like you that would justify a $500 office call!  The REALALITY is you don’t even see the problem!

Oh, I briefly spoke with my wife tonight, she says the loans are not to be paid until our daughter is out of school and its based upon 15% of their income after expenses. So a doctor making $200K would have to pay $30,000/12= 2,500 a month, leaving $170,000 a year to live on and YOU STILL THINK THIS ISN”T ENOUGH. And Obama is lowering this to 10%, which he should. Also, FASFA allows students to consolidate their loans to a lower rate, which is now currently about 2.2% Go to a bank and it would be 12-13% So who ever said they don’t receive discounted loans is wrong.

NPR which covered medical educational expenses stated that roughly nine in ten doctors graduate with an average debt burden over $150,000.

This is NOT a lot of money for someone who is going to make over $125,000 a year and up towards a million. Even $300k in loans is not a lot of money for people making well over six figures a year starting out. LOOK at the info I provided once again, the lowest reported taxable income in Ohio for a GP was about $125 k. I notice you claim I distort stuff but its YOU who hasn’t provided ANY financials but have provided a lot of opinions, like how nothing should be done because they have it worse in Africa.

I suppose we will have to continue to disagree about all these issues, you in your golden palace justifying the financial rape of citizens, which is strange how you’re so aggressive against rape towards women but have no restrictions on how the medical field does it financially to everyone without restrictions.

As to your mentioning the Hippocratic Oath DON”T PUT WORDS IN MY MOUTH, Once again YOU DISTORT THE DISCUSSION. Not a SINGLE PERSON HERE HAS EVEN SUGGESTED THAT DOCTORS SHOULD WORK FOR FREE.  Shame on you for trying once again to distort the facts.

And concerning the Hippocratic Oath , its obvious YOU havent read it!

“”””I will remember that I do not treat a fever chart, a cancerous growth, but a sick human being, WHOSE ILLNESS MAY AFFECT THE PERSON'S FAMILY AND ECONOMIC STABILITY. My responsibility includes these related problems, if I am to care adequately for the sick.

It seems you argued everything to support gouging but refused to cover the part how a doctor should consider how it AFFECTS THE PERSONS FAMILY AND ECONMIC STABILITY. I suppose NOM'S Signs refusing people to see a doctor unless they pay UP FRONT violates this oath? Nah, you will have a slippery answer towards that as well, its evident you have a personal agenda towards the justification to rip off the public. Once again, the purpose of your mask is evident.  Say what you want, change will be here soon and the general public will no longer put up with the medical proffession controling the costs of care, they will be controlled because of their history of greed. The government has controlled all necesseties, energy, education and now medical. HOWEVER, we are entering into an era that will most likely destoy our very foundation with Obama's socialist agenda. 

brutus smith says

 I agree with informed on this one.

Informed says

Bailey, you twist and misinterpret everything.  You need some professional help with that.  Since when is it a contradiction to believe that we need healthcare reform, but also that doctors need to be paid well?  I did comment on your statement about how much doctors make.  I said I do not begrudge them the money they make.  I don't recall anything in the Hippocratic Oath about working for free.  I would rather a doctor make that than a CEO who does nothing but lose the company money and lay off workers and ship jobs overseas, or a pro football player who makes millions of dollars in guaranteed money before even stepping on the field.  Now, in regard to your latest example, I have no idea what the standard practice of care is for an 80-year-old with a DNR order, so I cannot answer your question about ordering a cervical test.  If it shouldn't have been done, then the doctor was wrong and it was fraudulent and malpractice in my opinion.  But I don't know that and neither do you.  Maybe it was to help with her comfort or to prevent suffering, who knows. That doesn't mean that all doctors are wrong and that they are all thieves or liars or whatever you want to make them out to be. You have some serious issues.  And speaking of not answering questions, you did not answer mine.  Would you trade being an American anyplace in the USA with being an African in the Sudan?  I am sure we all know the answer to that one.   

KMN says

Bailey, you do not comletely undertand things again.  When a student consolitates loans, that ONLY allows them to spread them out over a longer period of time.  Not to reduce the amout paid.  If a student owes even $200,000...that would be over $2500/month load payments if paid in the 10 years that most loans allow.  When you consolidate (which you are correct, can only be done once) it allows you to spread those loan payments over a 30 year period...while interest is still accumulating.  And the interest rate was quite low at one time, yet students before and after have highter rates.  Many are paying much higher rates.  I am surprised your daughters would go into medicine with the anger you have.

Bailey says

To be continued since I have to get to work.

BTW, your statement that the loans are not discounted is wrong, the loans are as low as 2% and the student can consolidate them one time.

And, I know all about those in Africa, Dr. Peter Hammond is in the front lines and I support his Mission. I planned to go there and help but he stated that it would serve better to take the $5000 and put it towards the work in progress than have to have his help step over good caring people that aren't staying.

One question though, why didn't anyone comment on the factual data of what the doctors make? Strange how you seem to ignore the facts.

I like the contradiction where Informed says we need health care reform and THEN says this :

"""Sorry, but you are never going to convince me that doctors do not deserve to make a lot of money.  They are not overpaid  They save lives""""     THEY ARE PART OF THE PROBLEM, 80 year olds seen by 26 doctors who was labled DNR and they even billed medicare for a cervical test, theives.

Informed says

Bailey, you have no idea who I am or what kinds of hardships I have endured.  Quit assuming things you don't know.  You slept on a floor.  So did I.  But not in a grass hut or a cave.  And are you seriously trying to compare anyplace in America with places in Africa where women get tortured and raped everyday while trying to find firewood in order to cook for their children, with no law enforcement or social services to help them?  Please tell me where such a place exists.  I know there are high crime areas in America which are extremely dangerous.  I lived right by one.  Those places are nothing like that which I referenced.  Do a little research.  Sorry, but you are never going to convince me that doctors do not deserve to make a lot of money.  They are not overpaid  They save lives.  Very few people in their right minds would go through what it takes to be a physician if there wasn't some financial benefit.  You want to get angry at those who are overpaid--look at pro athletes and those in show business.  I never said that Americans do not face terrible hardships.  I see the faces of the homeless, the abused children, etc.  I have worked side-by-side with them.  However, we do not live in a third world country.  We have resources, options, choices.  Even the poorest of our poor can go to an ER and can treatment.  Third world countries have no ER to go to.  Even the poorest in our country can walk into a McDonald's and use a bathroom.  Third world countries don't have running water, let alone bathrooms.  Get my point?  Yes, I do believe there needs to be some sort of healthcare reform as I believe that all Americans, rich or poor, have a right to it.  However, I would never begrudge a doctor for wanting to help others in foreign countries who have no options.  And I would never begrudge them the money they make.  We are lucky to live in a country where we have options.  That doesn't mean that some don't have terrible hardships.  But if things are not worse in other parts of the world, tell me would you trade being an American anywhere in the USA for being an African in a village in the Sudan?   

KMN says

Baiely, you seem to know bits and pieces but never the facts:

1.  They are not dicounted loans.  There is interest which is accumulating.  The average medical student today comes out with $250,0000 in debt

2.  There are programs to have some loans forgiven...IF you travel to UNDERSERVED areas...where many don't want to go, and they are certainly not ample.

3.  The load is deductable...not the full about.  I believe it is approx $2500 for a single person and phases out to nothing if you make over $75,000....which many teachers make a year

4.  Not quite sure what you mean by TAKING TAX DOLLARS..since THE MAJORITY are paid back and not used to BUILD things???????

5.  Oh, and they CAN"T say what they should get paid as when a doctor signs a contract with an insurance co, they agree to accept what is "fair and reasonable"....again a doctor keeps an average of $35 of every $100 COLLECTED. 
 

Oh, and 6:  I feel very sorry for your daughters having the attitudes you do  You seem to always think you are right but can not see when you do not have an understanding of how things ACTUALLY work instead of how you view them.

Bailey says

http://www.studentdoc.com/radiology-salary.html

Forgot to paste the link where you can look up by state any medical proffession and see what the lowest and highest recorded pay for Doctors is. Facinating how they claim they can hardly make it and things are just so terrible!!  Remember, they have discounted loans, many are paid off if they serve in certain area's for 5 years, and of course the loans are TAX DEDUCTABLE,  It would be funny if it wasn't so sad on how they think how they can justify taking tax dollars to build the places where they went to school, where they practice, to pay for their education, and then ARGUE that they deserve to be paid, but NEVER say HOW MUCH they should be paid; there is never a limit to that part of their argument!

http://www.studentdoc.com/neurosurgery-salary.html

Bailey says

KMN

don't you have ANY SHAME? Your analogy is nothing less than a fat overweight person eating a steak in front of a starving family and COMPLAINING THAT IT ISN"T COOKED CORRECTLY!  Your post is INSULTING to the common person, and Informed Says is even worse!!! Its DISGUSTING what Informed actually said after you view this link, and there are many more if you want them! 

http://www.cejkasearch.com/compensation/amga_physician_compensation_survey.htm

Heres an interesting link, it shows by state the LOWEST and HIGHEST reported salary of doctors by proffession. The lowest salary reported in Ohio for a physician who has a Family Practice in Ohio is $128,ooo and the highest is $299,ooo. WOW, that insurance is REALLY killing the doctors isn't it!!!

Oh, and BTW, I HAVE slept on floors and didn't eat anything for weeks besides bad bread. DID YOU DO THAT INFORMED SAYS? If so then you have the RIGHT to ask me those questions. I don't remember seeing you at the rescue mission I served at In New Orleans or New York, what floor did you work on helping with the sick, carrying buckets of vomit to the toilet?  The staff ate what the guests ate, which sometimes was days of NOTHING, So don't sit there lecturing ON YOUR COMPUTER using the internet to me how Americans who are loosing their homes just don't have it bad enough! YOU DISGUST ME . Informed said  " Do you risk getting raped everyday venturing out to get firewood to cook for you and your children?"  You don't have a clue, do you! What gated community do you live in to say such a stupid thing? The closest thing you probably have ever seen concerning hardship is when you drve to the Sandusky Yacht Club!

Once again, don't others who aren't making their bills how bad your steak is and how hard it was to buy with such overhead!

I could answer each one of your points but why waist my time, your in denial that doctors overcharge, are overpaid, and THEY ALONG WiTH OVERPAID PRESIDENTS AND ADMINISTRATIONS OF HOPSITALS are as much the problem as govenment.

Oh, BTW, I had to put my house up to get my daughter out of Hondorus, she and four others were kidnapped/taken but released during the attempted take over last summer by militants. When I picked her up in Detroit one of the first things she said is she's moving there and helping the people in the jungle. I guess I will see how difficult its going to be, but you wont hear me complain about how she deserves to be paid, her payment will be knowing that she took an oath to HELP people, not require total payment up front of go somewhere else.

Now, go put your mask's back on before you hand someone their overpriced  and DOCTORED bill. AND, why not tell the drug reps who come once a week and bring lunch's from Red Lobster to your office in a effort to get your doctors signature that is worth upwards of $500 towards their bonuses beyond the $65,ooo salary?  Maybe I should write a book or run for office and disclose what I know, then maybe there will be REAL accountability and fewer BS on how the poor doctors have such terrible overhead.

Informed says

Bailey, our poorest citizens are wealthy compared to people in some of these other countries.  These people don't even have the opportunity to see a doctor or dentist.  Some of them don't even have clean water to drink.  They have no resources.   When doctors have to pay $100,000 per year for malpractice insurance, you think they shouldn't expect payment for their services?  I get tired of hearing Americans whine about how hard they have it when compared to people in third world countries.  Are you sleeping on a dirt floor in a hut or cave?  Do you have to eat dirt to fill your belly because it's not your day to eat, it's your sibling's turn?  Do you have to parent your younger siblings at age 8 because both your parents are dead?  Are you dying from easily curable disease because you don't have access to a simple pill or vaccine?  Do you have to drink dirty untreated water from a polluted river?  Do you risk getting raped everyday venturing out to get firewood to cook for you and your children?  You sit there on your computer and internet, or that of a library or friend, and expect people to feel sorry for you?  I am not saying that there aren't Americans who are suffering or in poverty.  I know that is the case.  I empathize with them and give when I can.  However, more often than not, people in America have options, choices, and resources. If your daughter is in fact in medical school, then you know the amount of money that it costs, not to mention time and hard work.  And then once she is practicing, it will continue to cost an enormous amount in overhead, including malpractice insurance.  Should she not be paid for her services?  If you have a problem with the system, don't blame doctors.  They have every right to be paid.  Blame the system in our country and blame those that abuse it. 

DGMutley says

from Bailey,

...

NO WONDER DOCTORS WEAR MASKS, MANY ARE THEIVES and to cover their guilt they go outside their own home to provide for others, like a discusting father whose kids are starving but they go to their girlfriends home and takes her kids presents.  >>>

lol

Great posts Bailey!  Right on the money!!

dorothy gale says

Right on, Bailey.  I agree 100% with your opinions on this issue.  And what about those people who don't have dental or health insurance, because their employer does not offer it and it's too expensive to purchase coverage on their own, and who DON'T qualify for Medicaid?  What THEN?  No payment, no service.  PERIOD.  No dental care.  I agree that there are people in need in this country and when everyone here has a beautiful smile, THEN we can fly around the globe and help those who don't and never will help US.

KMN says

Bailey, the majority of meical students do not qualify for grants...and as far as loans, they accumulate interest, many while they are still in school, and need to be paid back.  If you go into default, you can not be a provider for any federal insurance programs..ie: Medicare, etc.

A doctors overhead averages 65% so for that $100 he got paid, he keeps about $35.  Let's see how your daughters attitude changes when she is working and providing free care.

Bailey says

4merpirate

Not true, I do NOT want something to complain about, these are FACTS.

My own daugther is a medical student and went to Honduras to help those people. I asked her why don't they help people here in America? She got the answer from the college that they go overseas because if the student makes a mistake they WON'T BE SUED, this allows them to practice also without a license.

I am going to transfer my post to the article under Dr. Amy Reese, Dentists aren't that big of a problem in the medical field, its the regular MD's and DO's that are greedy.      

FACT, Ohio State Medical doctors recieve so many grants. My daughters friend after residency is moving 27 miles outside Columbus and if she works 3 days a week for 5 years  WHILE RECIEVING GREAT PAY, the feds willl pay off her loan 100%

NOW, 4merpirate, what do you have to say about THAT! Tell me how many doctors YOU know that would say, Nah, I'll pay the entire $400,000 myself,   I and my daughter will NOT have the payoff that these other tax riding doctors recieve in private practice or with an institution. But even so, the topic is they WON'T see people unless they are paid UP FRONT, what about their oath? 

Any you say I'm on MY HIGH HORSE and I should do something? You know NOTHING about me. I am paying for my daughters medical school, and yes there are funds, but she IS going to provide work at free clinics etc. Its obvious you have some connection with this doctor, or are one. Once again, this isn't about this dentist, its about how they TAKE peoples home,NOM's wont even see people without PAYMENT UP FRONT, and then fly all over the world giving help, why?TO SOOTH THEIR CONSCIENCE from destroying other peoples lives by over priced medicine that WE THE TAXPAYERS PAID FOR? It seems your a doctor or related to one, what did YOU or THEY do here in AMERICA, the people that put the food on your table!?       

NO WONDER DOCTORS WEAR MASKS, MANY ARE THEIVES and to cover their guilt they go outside their own home to provide for others, like a discusting father whose kids are starving but they go to their girlfriends home and takes her kids presents.                                                                        

4merpirate says

 Bailey,

You just want something to complain about.  The fact of the matter is there are plenty of opportunities for people to receive free dental care, especially for children.  Much of the American public is lazy, ungrateful, and has a sense of entitlement. It just takes a little bit of effort and caring to get free or very affordable dental visits.

How exactly do you know that these doctors did not fund their own educations and aren't still paying for them?  It is their perogative where they use their skills and whom they help.  

Get off your high horse and do something yourself before you criticize what others are doing to help.

2kids says

I agree that they should be helping Americans, BUT I also see their side of this too. 

I do medical billing and Americans don't appreciate anything.  I see more and more people on Medicaid that won't provide the correct information to bill their claim out.  Certain information is needed to be paid by the state and I have had times when I have called to get that information from the patient and was told they didn't know it.  Now mind you this is their birthday that they gave wrong, their SS# or even the fact that they have primary coverage, it's not the code for genetics.  I have actually had people tell me  "it doesn't matter if I give it to you or not you can't bill me anyway." 

The sad thing is they are correct, the state won't even hold them responsible to provide their Medicaid card.  Now if you go in with commercial insurance and don't provide your insurance card the bill goes directly to you.  If they are going to get FREE care they they have to at least be able to provide the correct information for the doctor to get paid.

iamrevolutionary says

 "CLAP.CLAP.......CLAP.......CLAP........CLAPPPPPPPPPPPPPPP!!!!!  

100%  AGREE!!  Have heard the same myself..(pay or go)......Also, been told I can NOT have my med. records, UNLESS I pay a couple hundred$$$$  .......Which, I believe, is ILLEGAL!  

They are in it for the $$ don't LET them tell you ANYTHING else!!  Our children have MAJOR student loans to pay back, but do NOT charge$$$ for every piece of advice they give out!! 

Help our OWN people FIRST!! THEN others..OR>>>At LEAST make sure WE are taken care of before sending them off to other countries!!  How is it OK for OTHER countries' people to get FREE health/dental care, but if it is in THIS country, USA, it is living on "the dole"!!  EXPLAIN the difference PLEASE!!!

katelih says

 Bailey is on a roll tonight !

Bailey says

Ok, I'll be the FIRST to say what I believe.

FIRST, these doctors have the right to go anywhere they want and practice on anyone they want and give free services to anyone they want.

Second, if they do this for the locals then this doesn't apply to them, and I'm proud of them

BUT>>..................

All these doctors lately have to go overseas to help someone? 

We the taxpayers gave these Doctors the GRANTS and LOANS via our tax's and they in turn wont see us unless we PAY IN FULL with Cash, Credit card or check the full amount. Nom's actually has signs saying this! Then these doctors who GLADDLY take our tax dollars OVERCHARGE and buy homes in Angle Path or other places and what do they do? They fly 1000's of miles and spend $1,000 of dollars to provide 'Humanitarian' care for those who didn't give ONE THING, not even ONE PENNY towards their education! Personally, I think these people need a reality check!  They will get a lawyer and take your home away if you don't pay them, and places like NOM'S wont even see you until you PAY UP FRONT, but then they thumb their noses at OUR poor and tell them the government will take care of them. LET THE OTHER COUNTRIES GOVENMENT TAKE CARE OF THEIR OWN, WE TOOK CARE OF YOU DOCTORS!!

Personally, I think their hypocrites, the colleges go over seas to do 'humanitarian' work because of our DUMB laws that PROTECT sutdent doctors from lawsuits if they make mistakes, but why do these doctors go there? These doctors can drive just a mile from their office and find all the hunanitarian work to last a life time!!!!

Think about it DOCTORS. Why didn't the register go take a picture at any NOM's doctors office that says they want payment up front? I actually HEARD a patient who was at a NOM's doctor  being told that he could NOT see the doctor until he paid up front and they sent him away and told him to come back with cash or credit card and they will RESCHEDUAL the appointment then.  

Oh, this post will be taken off because NOM's advertises on this site, and money talks. Heaven forbid if this paper would print truth over profit.