Ernie@Home says

11.9% lower in a RTW state.. go their and work for free they would love you....all the way to the bank...LOL

Ernie@Home says

First, we control for differences in cost of living throughout the United States, thereby making comparable wages in various parts of the country. Secondly, we examine how metropolitan areas located in both right-to-work and non-right-to-work states affect wages.

We find that the mean effect of working in a right-to-work state results in a 6% to 8% reduction in wages for workers in these states, with an average wage penalty of 6.5%. Controlling for regional costs of living reduces this amount to approximately 4%. We find that previous research reporting real wage gains associated with right-to-work states is almost purely the result of border cities that benefit from their proximity to a non-RTW state.

Data and Analysis
To determine the effect of right-to-work laws on wages we estimate log wage equations using the Bureau of Labor Statistic’s current population survey-outgoing rotation group (CPS-ORG) data for 2000. The sample consists of 152,576 prime age workers, ages 18-64, who earn wages or salaries. Average hourly wages for the sample were $15.54, and median hourly wages were $12.25. Median wages for workers living in right-to-work states were $11.45, while wages for those living in non-RTW states were $13.00, indicating that wages were 11.9% lower in RTW states.

Lower wages, lower standard of living!! It isn't rocket science

Ernie@Home says

before steel was outsource, Cleveland and Pittsburg use to make all the steel for cars and trucks,

But when the NAFT bill was signed and all moved to china, for slave labor...

Ernie@Home says

300 hundred jobs at min wage, and can't afford to pay rent and buy groceries out of the same check,  with no health insurance, so I do hope you don't get sick, or your kids need medical care... but than again their is always walfare for that isn't there... Why work if you can get free hand outs and eat government cheese.. While the company's  CEO are having steak...

The last I check their wasn't any border control at the state line... move on down... that is while people have all ways traveled to the north to work are better paying jobs,, but isn't funny not a lot of northern travel to the south for their pennies on the dollar wages...

Ernie@Home says

@ goofus

 comparing Ohio to one of the poorest states in the national, is horrible...Alabama school ratings are one of the lowest in the country thier standard of living is low.. If you want to live in huts go live in Alabama...Been in Alabama no thank you..

That state still believe that blacks shouldn't even vote..

Comparing Ohio to Alamba is a insult... for the most part they don't even pay livable wages down there,, that is one of the poorest states in the nation.. Free labor.. you will work for free... wow you must not own anything... how can you exist with free labor... your time isn't worth anything???..you would show on time to a job and do the best you can for free... while they have the luxuries of your work.. well by god, I do believe that is slave labor, with a fancy name... feel free. but I like working for money and buying things and enjoying the luxuries of life.. I worked for everything I owe, and nothing is for free....

Ernie@Home says

@ Origen

Those pension were earned..Percentage of their wages was put into those pension...just like Social Security.. \\(Social Security another program that supports alot of dead beats that never work for it.. They claim they have some kind of  illness and can't work and given money for free that come out of my wages!!!!

You really think the government would have money, if the Middle class isn't working to support the no- income people and the rich!!!!

These men and women worked 30 + years putting their money aside for retirement  so they could have this money to work with their social securtiy.

so what your saying is if I put money in a 401 or a pension for when I retire, I not entitled to it when I do retire.. than that is  robbery..

While the american people are paying $4. gal for mild $2.25 for bread and $2 to $3 dollars for eggs, $3.50 for gas a gallon. The big three can make money from your work, and while the Ford family is docking their yaht in Huron, Ohio and you working two and three jobs to buy grocery that is ok????

In cleveland they replace steel mills with shopping malls, jobs that paid $30,000 a year to.For jobs that pay $12,000 a year... but that is fine..They send this work out of the country so the corp american can get bonus and put fuel in their yahts while you work 3 hours to be able to afford milk, eggs and bread.. Minium wage..

and don't forget these items go up in price when min wage goes up!

Fords 2011 earnings,

• Second quarter net income was $2.4 billion, or 59 cents per share, a $201 million decrease from second quarter 2010. Pre-tax operating profit was $2.9 billion, or 65 cents per share, a decrease of $64 million from second quarter 2010.
• Automotive pre-tax operating profit was $2.3 billion for the second quarter, an increase of $209 million from second quarter 2010.

goofus says

Oh oh, looks like our neighbor is going right to Work!

http://www.npr.org/2012/01/11/145033950/indiana-democrats-losing-right-to-work-fight

mikel says

bmw will also be expanding operations at their south carolina plant by adding 300+ jobs with a multi million dollar addition to their factory.  another win for a rtw state.

Pete says

FRANKFURT (Dow Jones)--Daimler AG (DAI.XE) said Thursday it will create 1,100 jobs and add a second shift to ramp up production at its Freightliner truck plant in Cleveland, N.C.,

The company will create a further 100 jobs at a nearby components facility in Gastonia.

http://online.wsj.com/article/BT-CO-20120112-709457.html

1,200 jobs in an RTW State.

But hey, look on the bright  side. A/M is bringing back 150 to its steel plant in Cleveland OHIO

1,200 vs 150. Hmmmm

goofus says

Mandungo, Perhaps those hillibillies in Orangeburg S.C. aren't doing so bad after all. Word to the disabled, the Appalcachian Mountains aren't in SC, it's pretty flat around there. Take it from a frequent flier on I-26.

goofus says

Today's RTW snippet you will never see in the Lamestream State Run Media from NPR ?

Although readily available from sources such as the National Institute for Labor Relations Research, the following facts strike me as unlikely to be reported on NPR:

– private sector employees compensation growth in real dollars during the period 2000-2010 grew by more than 11% annually in right-to-work states, and by less than 1% in “forced unionism” states;

– during the same period, growth in manufacturing GDP (in 2005 dollars) grew by 18.6% in right-to-work states against 8.3% in forced unionism states; and

– private sector employees’ cost-of-living adjusted compensation was actually greater in right-to-work states than in forced unionism states in 2010.

origen says

@Ernie

Of course they didnt lower the price of cars while lowering the workers wages, They have to pay off the retiree's (The promises they made to the union caused them to almost go bankrupt and they had to restructure to keep the money flowing to liabilitys) So in essence the Unions got unsustainable promises that cause each one of these companys to have a hard time in a economic downturn.

goofus says

Ernie@Home says

How easy to blame Unions!! People don't realize a corporation only worry about the bottom line...If it wasn't for your unions, Non-union workers wouldn't have lunch breaks, water breaks...Safety rules, they wounldn't even be allow to use bathrooms...RTW state bring in a lot of illegals to do these jobs so they can pocket more of their money..RTW states have jobs with no insursance benefits...They just send their illegals to the welfare programs...My Grandfather worked in this country before unions, and those things were not allowed in a non-union plant...(He worked at Ford, before they were union)...You have thugs in Unions and Non-unions...If you think these corporation worry about your rights, Than move to these right to work states and find out just how great they really are...

In the 80's I worked in Texas, they would bus in illegals to works their jobs until they were busted by immigration, They would work as many illegals on one time card and pay them one wage, and make them splint their pay...Than charge them for giving them a job...Treated them like slaves.. ripped them off and tthey couldn't do a thing about it... They were fine by immigration,but it was only a slap on the hands... and the next day they would go get another bus of illegals... working without a Union is like showing up to court with out a attorney hoping you know enough to win your case... You must be careful what you wish for...Unions have gotten greedy, but no more greedier than the Corp American...

I didn't see Ford, GM or Chrysler, lowing tthe amounts for the vechicles after they lower their wages and broke up a lot of the union...They are making billions in China on slave labor.... do your homework...It not be a liberal.. It is being paid a good pay for a good days work...

goofus says

Hope your buddy makes retirement,you know bad mouthing the company that provides the means to retire and all.

Ned Mandingo says

Good for you goofball you found a companies website and read their company statement. I wouldn't expect their website to state anything else. I only know what a on site manager that transfered there told me. He went there to finish his last few years out before retiring. He also told me its only a step above moving the plant to mexio. I never said i only buy Ohio made products, obviously that would be imposible. I perfer to buy american made when avaible, what real american doesn't. What part of that is too hard for you to understand.

goofus says

Lennox, a company heavily invested in new home and business construction can afford to pay higher wages in the middle of a home construction depression. What color is the sky in your world. I know the downturn is new to you because if you buy only ohio made union products, you have no tv or radio. How's the libraries computers today?

goofus says

Address: 355 Millenium Dr
Orangeburg, SC,
29115-9805

http://www.armstrongair.com/about-us.html

State of the art facility with every product has 100% check when it is finished, and Mandumpo says it has problems

Ned Mandingo says

I have allways only purchased cooper tires for my vehicles because they were union made in ohio. I'm glad i won't need tires anytime soon or i would have to look for another tire company. I hope this is resolved so i can buy cooper tires next time i need a set.  I know losing  one customer won't hurt the company, but i'm not going to help them either.

RTW-for less, a few people have posted statistcs that RTW states have lower unemployment than non-RTW states and this could be true. Many of the non- RTW states are the traditional manfacturing states. These states have higher unemployment due to sending manfacturing jobs overseas or down south where people will work for half the money. A example of this is the armstrong furnace factory that was once in Bellevue. That factory had about 400 employees who made a average of $18 to$20 a hour for union workers. Not a unreasonable wage for the jobs they did.  The facility was old and in need of repairs so instead of investing in it they built a new plant in south carolina. Now they can pay those hillbillies half the wages and make them pay whatever they want for insurance. I have heard from a manager that transfered down there that the workers they have down there are useless and the quality of product has suffered greatly. He said the numbers show the company would have made more money staying where they were and paying higher wages for better workers.

wetsu says

This is from the Courier today around 2:30.

A Cooper Tire employee and his friend were cited for menacing a temporary worker of the plant, an hour and a half before the victim was reportedly beaten by another person.Christopher C. Jones, 45, of Bucyrus, and Amy J. Hoffer, 49, of Findlay, were cited for following Bobby Sellers’ vehicle closely the night of Dec. 10 on Interstate 75, said Lt. John Dunbar of the Findlay Police Department.

goofus says

Brutus, please furnish the link of any follow up story. If the union was not involved, the lamestream state run media would be proclaiming it in headlines.  Nice deflection though, it's what liberals do best.

The Big Dog's back says

 So goof, your version of America is guilty until proven innocent? Sieg Heil!

Browndog271 says

I guess other people are willing to work,  unemployement is over 9%,  they should be happy that they have a job with benefits

goofus says

Brutus, the so called facts of your assertion is printed or shown where? Funny, no article absolving the union has been written.

patriot5 says

The Big Dog's back says

 Maybe you should give the police information on that since they said it was not a "union thug" who did it. I'll refer them to you.

origen says

@Big Dog

Aww so if union people beat up others in a hotel parking lot its ok? Gimmie a break thug get with the rest of society, You are out dated!

Actually stick around you are good fun and prove the stupidity of the left.

The Big Dog's back says

 patriot, you mean kinda like when workers want a union to come in and the company fires, harasses and intimidates people?

kURTje says

Patriot        you worked - or were you management @ Cleveland?         Was that ALCOA?

I Judge you says

oh my reperations make thems tires spin good . yo unionnis is fo si=uckas casue you nned to works for money. ya george bush did good times. ya reperations make c

patriot5 says

sanduskysteve says

newpaperpost - you are right - when i was in a union, that was pretty much an accurate average of union dues - could be higher for higher paid employees though as it was (used to be at least) a percentage of what you made.  Maybe if that wasn't the case, unions wouldn't try to get more than employers can afford to pay out.  I mis-read your beliefs - I believe we are on the same page and I would also sign a petition to make Ohio a RTW state.

newpaperpost says

Actually the highest dues that I have ever heard of was 90 dollars a month, lets even say that was higher at 100 dollars a month you are talking 1200 dollars a year.  Subtract that from the numbers provided and still better off.  Take into consideration as well that there are still unions in right to work states and places without unions in non right to work states.  Also anything with a union is voted on by the membership.  Having worked in both union and non union I have seen good and bad in each.  I have seen some non union shops employees that don't do a thing until the boss is looking.  I've seen union shops with the same  as well.  Saying that no union workers do anything of value is just plain ignorant.  That would be the same as saying anyone not in a union is on welfare.  The one constant that I have found at every place is that the ones doing the complaining saying others are not doing something are generally the ones not doing their jobs well.  Again, change the law so that unions are not forced to represent those that are not members and I'll be the first to sign a petition to make Ohio a right to work state. 

The Big Dog's back says

 stevie, why are you in such a hurry to race to the bottom?

The Big Dog's back says

 If the majority votes the union out, they're out.

goofus says

Hey Brutus, I'm in a RTW state also and soon to be represented by two senators of the republican inclination. Go Connie Mack iv.

sanduskysteve says

@newpaperpost - although your figures show what you attempt to prove, they are not complete - you really need to remove the union dues from those non-RTW incomes and you'll find the gap closes much closer to be equal.  So, you have a choice as to whether to negotiate your own wages based on your ability to perform your work and make a living without being on strike all the time - or you can choose to join a union who may (no guarantee) get you a little higher wages - but then the union takes the increase in the form of dues and you end up in the same position - but have to deal with someone else deciding what's best for you and take a chance on loosing your job due to someone else making decisions for you.

Once again, unions cannot force employers to do anything and that includes pay you more - with unemployment where it is today - there is no reason for an employer to bend to union demands - there are plenty of others who want to work and it is being proven everyday.

Get the unions out of the workplace and then make the workers actually do something of value and you will see non-union wages increase as well.  I wouldn't pay someone to do half the work just because they might "quit" (which is basically the same a striking).

sanduskysteve says

Big Dog - if union representation is voted for (which I agree it is), then it should be able to be voted out as well, but I have never heard of that happening - in fact, you cannot opt out of a union once your in it - even if you want to unless everyone else wants out.  Talk about a dictatorship.  Union representation in a factory is worse than Obama for president.  The union has all of the control and you just have to follow like sheep no matter what you would rather do.

KnuckleDragger says

@BigDog, what makes you think that I don't already live in a RTW state. lol.

newpaperpost says

Actually I did give you the numbers adjusted for cost of living, 46,360 in a Right to work state and 50,151 in non right to work states.  Better off in the non right to work states.  Ohio is worse than both numbers but if comparing one to another you have to take the whole pie into account not just one piece.  Unemployment is 7.37% in Right to work and 7.80% in non right to work states  8.5% in Ohio again worse than both numbers. So in reality Ohio is doing just plain bad compared to both sides.   I'll be honest with you I've worked in both Union and non union shops.  And there are positives and negatives to both.  Do I think there is always a need at every place of employment for a Union absolutely not.  Do I think at a larger company where the people determining who makes what, but has never met you let alone see what type of job you do, in some cases absolutely.  Right now as the law reads if somone is working in a Union shop and is not a member of the union (right to work states), then by law the union still has to represent them.  Change the law so they do not have to and I'll be one of the first ones to sign the petition.  Looking at the articles you provided yes they have slightly lower unemployment at this time, it also goes on to state that history has shown little difference. 

We have politicians, news stations, PACs and everyone else trying to make everything sound like its simple cut and dry.  Hey things not going that way you want, blame this guy or that guy. They latch onto one piece of information and run with it without looking at the big picture.  Just looking at job numbers even, one piece of the puzzle is tax savings for businesses.  Which is an area that Strickland (if I spelled that right) was horrible at.  Kasich on the other hand is doing well with and providing incentives for business to come back to the state.  If they are employing people your tax base is now off of the individuals and not the business which still leaves everyone better off.  Then the money that they made is either reinvested into the company or provided as dividends (taxable).

The Big Dog's back says

 Knucklehead, go move to a RTW state if you like them so much.

digger nick says

Wow talk about stupid who strikes when there is a line out the door to replace your lazy bitchin arse?

DIMOCRAT

KnuckleDragger says

The point I was trying to make was that Big Dog likes to spout off about how right to work state means poverty wages.  This is not necessarily true.  While you are at it why don't you take into account that if you are looking at cost of living, nearly all the southern RTW states would be better off than Ohio.  The numbers are also out there that show that RTW states faired better during the recession than non RTW. Check out politifacts findings on it. http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/2011/feb/28/bill-oreilly/bill-oreilly-says-unemployment-lower-right-work-st/

Or how about this.  http://www.politifact.com/georgia/statements/2011/jun/21/newt-gingrich/numbers-back-gingrich-job-growth-claim/

The fact is, you are pissing away your money if you are paying union dues.

newpaperpost says

You would be correct in that several right to work states have higher household incomes than Ohio.

Virginia, Utah, Wyoming, Texas, Nevada, Kansas, Georgia, Iowa, North Dakota, Arizona (if you take cost of living into account Arizona is removed from this list)

That would leave 12 out of 22 right to work states that work for less 13 if you follow standard cost of living adjustments.

The average annual household income in Right to Work states is 44,208.  In states that are not right to work the average household income is 55,174.  Adjusting for cost of living it would be 46,360 in right to work states and 50,151 in non right to work states.

And the time taken would be 20 minutes to look up and type the data.

http://factfinder.census.gov/servlet/GRTTable?_bm=y&-geo_id=01000US&-_box_head_nbr=R1901&-ds_name=ACS_2009_1YR_G00_&-redoLog=false&-format=US-30&-mt_name=ACS_2007_1YR_G00_R1901_US30&-CONTEXT=grt

Erie County Resident says

They were offered their jobs by extending the contract so negotiations could also continue.

Union said no way we are staying out on strike.... Real brilliant.

How do I say this delicately .... C'ya losers!!!

Offered their job back and they thumb their nose at the company tells me how their thought process works.. It doesn't... Sounds like brutus.

nobodycares says

dont worry folks it will soon be called............................el cooper de mexico ...........

KnuckleDragger says

Yeah Big Dog.

Annual Household Income

Ohio  $45,467

Texas $48,286

Utah $55,183

Arizona $48,711

This is only a few of the RTW states where the income exceeds Ohio. I could list more but I work for a living and really don't have time to deal with your BS.  Fact is there aren't many union jobs around here that pay more $14/hr, put that in your pipe and smoke it.

mikel says

big d - your point is what?  the way i read this is that union picked a bad time for this to happen.  funny, it doesn't mention that cooper offered to extend the current contract for a year to get something hammered and was REFUSED by the union.  again, with a real percentage of unemployment around 18%, the union picked a reallyyyyyyy bad time for this!

katelih says

 I've never worked at a union company, so I would have no problem  being a scab. It may NOT be my first choice of options but I would cross a strike line before I would stand in the WELFARE line. Simple, as that.

big_d says

After Union Bails Out Cooper Tire, Company Locks Workers Out
Mischa Gaus
| December 16, 2011



Steelworkers locked out at a Cooper Tire plant in Ohio are raising the alarm as scabs move in to start building tires.

The conflict at Cooper’s Findlay plant, where 1,050 Steelworkers build replacement tires for pickups, stems from new machinery the company recently introduced. Tires are mostly hand-built, but the equipment cut a step out of the process.

The company asked the union to accept a new rate system and figure out the details over the coming year. USW's Pat Gallagher said the union could not tell members what they would be earning, because the company would not define the new production standards.

The Steelworkers offered an extension to the agreement, but Cooper locked them out November 28. CEO Roy V. Armes is also a board member of the Manitowoc Co. in Wisconsin, where workers are on strike over Scott Walker-like union-busting demands.
MILLIONS IN GIVEBACKS

The Steelworkers are incensed by the lockout because the union gave back $31.2 million in concessions in the last contract and because the union had helped manufacturers like Cooper by lobbying successfully for a tariff on Chinese tires.

The tariff curtailed imports, boosted Cooper’s profitability, and allowed it to buy the new equipment, the union says. Cooper, which produces tires in China, did not join the call for the tariff—but now says its expiration next year mandates another round of concessions.

The company wants a five-tier wage scheme, no defined-benefit pensions for new hires, and no health care coverage for future retirees. Cooper made $302.4 million in profit between 2009 and September 2011.

Cooper workers make most of their money from an incentive system, said James Gutierrez, a steward and member of the civil rights committee.

“It’s a very physical job, with lots of twisting and turning,” he said. Part of Cooper’s new rate system would pay workers based on how far they walk during the job, instead of by how much time it takes to build the tire. That would mean time spent waiting for parts would be unpaid, Gutierrez said.

The Findlay plant’s starting hourly wage is $13. The Steelworkers haven’t had a raise in three years.

“We’re tired of losing ground,” Gutierrez said.
LONG ROAD AHEAD

Before the lockout, Findlay’s tire-builders had a rotating schedule that mandated work every other weekend—without any premium. The plant hummed 24 hours a day.

Cooper stockpiled inventories, and a tire trade magazine reports that suppliers aren’t worried about the short term, because December is a slow month.

The company has eight factories in the U.S., Mexico, England, and China, and workers are fatalistic about the sharp whipsaws of global corporations.

“Realistically, if they wanted to close us down, they could,” said Teresa Brown, a 12-year veteran and member of the contract action team. “But at some point, you have to stand up. What are we going to make next contract, $8.50 an hour?”

Gallagher said the union is not coordinating bargaining or action with a sister USW local in Arkansas, where the contract for 1,300 members expires January 17.

The company has shipped molds there from Ohio to continue production.

Instead, the union will focus on a corporate campaign, targeting shareholders, customers, and suppliers. By sending in untrained scabs to restart production, “Cooper took a chance that could ruin its credibility,” Gutierrez said.
SHORT ON ARROWS

The tariff on Chinese tires that the Steelworkers won in September 2009 has led to a significant decline in imports. Two years later, tire imports from China are down 57 percent, according to the Department of Commerce.

The Steelworkers (and a few manufacturers) made their case for the tariff by pointing to a 215 percent rise in Chinese tire imports between 2004 and 2008, mostly at the lower end of the market. The surge led to 5,200 U.S. job losses, the union said.

The Chinese rubber trade association countered that the tariff would cost 100,000 jobs there.

The Steelworkers have also campaigned for and won dozens of tariffs against other specific imports, from steel pipe to wire to plates, and are calling for trade regulators to scrutinize China’s subsidies to its renewable energy sector—asserting that too much government help to business breaks World Trade Organization rules.

Linda Andros, legislative counsel for the Steelworkers in Washington, defended the union against charges that U.S. tariffs harm workers in other countries, noting that the USW regularly aids unions overseas and fights for stronger labor rights there through trade deals.

“We don’t have a lot of arrows in our quiver,” Andros said. “But if you stand by and do nothing, you’re going to lose capacity and jobs.”

Andros said the union can’t reshape the global trade regime by fighting one product at a time—much less attack what it sees as a multitude of sins that China commits against fair trade. Those include artificially undervaluing its currency (which lowers the cost of exports) and offering investors below-cost loans, free land, cheap electricity, tax adjustments, and a bevy of other subsidies—greater than the substantial help that U.S. states routinely offer companies.

Andros said that if it wanted to, the U.S. government could launch sanctions against China’s currency manipulation now, without waiting for a lengthy trade case to be heard. The blowback from China and the WTO would be fierce. 

Thought I'd just drop this here.