mardanlake says

Well, now amusedNdanbury will need a copy of the guidelines from the Ohio Ethics Commission if they are suggesting the trustees are engaged in unethical behavior. But first, can you explain to us how the trustees and zoning inspector "abused" this elderly man?

amusedNdanbury says

Straight from email from Rozak:

"The ORC gives trustees the power to appoint members to the zoning commission and the board of zoning appeals.  It does not require any policy for appointment."

This is how trustees in Danbury dismiss questions.  "The ORC does not say we have to", or "the ORC" does not say we can't."  Pull the ORC card with a vague reference to Title V TOWNSHIPS, and everyone is to bow and stop talking.

Just because the ORC does not specifically indicate township elected officials must implement a procedure or follow a particular action, elected officials must make government transparent and avoid the appearance of impropriety. 

When history has dictated that trustees select candidates to serve on a zoning commission or zoning board by appointing people the zoning inspector has hand-picked, or they summarily dismiss one member who served more than fifteen years in order to seat a trustee voted out of office, when the zoning commission and zoning board are made suddenlly part-time employees to be certain those seated on the boards do earn reward in the state retirement program, when the zoning inspector abruptly resigns after causing much more than three months of unremitting abuses too close together in time to ignore or defend, it is time for people to say:  No more.

Just because the ORC does not specifically state that trustees must follow certain laws, are they empowered to arbitrarily and inconsistenly employ practices and procedures pulled out of ... their collective hat?  If you live in a township, is your township spending your tax dollars making board members part-time employees with certain benefits?  How many townships in Ohio are doing this?  From my research, there is only one out of 1362 Ohio townships.  (Of course, in those random calls I make, maybe the other township officials do not want to admit to this practice.)

The State of Ohio has a zero-tolerance policy for violence in the workplace, but trustees ignored that with the dismissal of every incident of violence that residents reported over many years.  Just because one official is having a bad day or dislikes someone does not justify violence or the trustees' failure to serve the people. 

Township employees serve at the pleasure of the trustees.  The trustees serve at the pleasure of the people.  The abuse of the elderlly man and all the other business owners, realtors, contractors, investors by this township's zoning office has been endorsed, defended, and/or ignored by trustees for too long.  With the resignation of the zoning inspector comes the removal of some mirrors and the clearing of some smokescreen utitlized by trustees far too long.

Since early this morning, many people are at the elderly man's home--working to achieve a goal, visiting with the gentleman, delivering food or snacks for the workers.  Sometimes people who see a need get up and help.  Sometimes people do get from behind their apathy or ambivalence to step up to assist others.  It is happening.  When something is just wrong, sometimes people work to fix it.

Go ahead; pull out your broad and unspecific ORC reference to shut down residents.  A simple sense of right and wrong has been lacking in trustees for too long.  November is coming, and "the times they are a-changin'.

mardanlake says

and a copy of the Ohio Administrative Code.

mardanlake says

Poor little kupkaks. Had the chance to inform and educate but made the choice to slam the township administration instead. Maybe Ms. Rozak quotes from the Ohio Revised Code because it is the law. Kupkaks would do well to get herself a copy.

Julie R. says

Isn't Mulligan another one of the big tough Erie/Ottawa he-men that was involved in the case against Elsebeth Baumgartner?

Centauri says

call mulligan for backup. lol

Mulligan?

As in Mulligan stew?

This lawyer who knows little about the law?

Why do the voters in Ottawa keep voting this clown in?

kupkaks says

@ mardanlake  (marblehead, danbury, lakeside )   I believe you will find it in the  "Rozak Rules of Redundancy"  I'm sure somewhere she will find the proper code to quote to you from the OHIO REVISED CODE.......( her favorite ) so you can hunt and hunt or call mulligan for backup.  lol 

mardanlake says

Hey kupkaks can you please tell us which part of the Ohio Administrative Code requires all correspondence to be read at township meetings?

Centauri says

(If interested, you might like to see the segment WKYC aired yesterday. Google it yourselves.)

http://www.wkyc.com/news/story.aspx?storyid=204574

http://www.wkyc.com/video/1137860936001/0/Disabled-87-year-old-gets-help-to-get-wheelchair-ramp

kupkaks says

So Much More is not told in this article.......but then to let it all out would take a NOVEL length article. First, Kobaks did send the 1st contractor to get a permit, and was told immediately a variance would be needed. Without a visit from the zoning inspector. 2nd, a letter of complaint to the Danbury Twp. Trustees, that should have been read as correspondence at the regular Meeting, was NOT read, but submitted to the zoning inspector to be read or shared during her department report. It was not.  But a long briefing of the situation from HER side was reported on.  The complaint letter had some durrogatory comments about the trustees and inspector, and would have been to embarrasing to read in a public meeting. The neighborhood around the Kobaks were upset by the complaint, because now fear of the inspector poking around and finding all of the building additions, and changes made to homes in the area would be in full view.  3rd Mr. Kobak does not live alone, his daughter has moved in with him, after his failed attempt of staying in a local nursing home, that left him unbathed for weeks, and failed in basic caregiving. 4th.. Basic rights for the handicapped were violated in denying the man the right of ingress & egress. 5th.  Compassion and common sense should have ruled the decisions, not temper tantrums.  A permit should have been granted and waivers applied to fees.  Attempts to find a solution on Ms. Kobaks part should not have been met with being hung up on, three times by the inspector. But working on a solution to find comfort for a man with limits should have prevailed.     Through all of this, although it has taken well over a month, the goodness and kindness of others has shown through. Walter will get a ramp because of hard work and moral belief of those who stepped forward to help, in any possible way.  We just need to remember, it's not about being Rich or Poor, Good or Bad, Healthy or Handicapped......it is about being happy in the comfort of what brings you peace. God Bless you Walter, in the coming days.....and may your heart be healed and warmed by the goodness of those who are currently helping with your NEED.

p.s. one statement repeated by the one trustee and zoning inspector is ...... "the law is the law"... that being so.....then why wasn't the original letter of complaint at the Township meeting read aloud during the correspondence segment of the meeting......as the LAW requires?   The law is the law correct ?

amusedNdanbury says

All the hyper-critical people here who are quick to judge should all have in their lives a disabled or handicapped loved one.  Let each of you come back when your loved one needs a wheelchair ramp in very lean economic times and living on a very tight, fixed income.  Tell us how quickly you get your parent, your sibling, your child into assisted-living.  Share how you installed your family member in the facility of your choice and washed your hands of them. It is certain that getting your loved one into someone else's care will cost you nothing--financially or emotionally.  To be so ignorant must be blissful for you -- it must be what enables you to glibly dismiss this old gentleman and his daughter.

How many of you who commented have actually met the father?  his daughter?  You already know details or the financial circumstances because you gave them a phone call?   Did you call or email the newspaper reporter for more information?   After you've checked your parents investments and bank accounts, their insurance and medicare, their safe deposit boxes and wallets, then go look up the word altruistic.  It is something you are not.

There are some people who actually step up to learn about a situation.  When they understand a problem, some people offer what help they can.  Whether it is smashing concrete or taking over a meal, visiting with an elderly gentlemen or helping with some research--some people get to know facts before judging and offering opinions that are grossly insensitive and inaccurate.  Some people want to help others and their community.  They are not aloof, bleeding heart liberals; they are people with a sense of decency and respect for others.  No handouts are requested or given sometimes.  Kind words, support, time, or a hammer might be all that is needed or hoped for by individuals who need help. 

Not everyone has access to a computer.  Some still use the phone book to contact government offices during their lunchtime or breaks--or miss a day of work to attempt to resolve a problem to help someone they love. 

So, township trustees and their zoning inspector who boldly lie about details to newspaper and tv reporters may find themselves in a courtroom facing the Ohio Civil Rights Commission?  I say: Amen to that.  (If interested, you might like to see the segment WKYC aired yesterday.  Google it yourselves.)

So, commentors here--pound on your keyboards all your empty thoughts and share your hollow voices and idiotic platitudes.  Personally, I hope you and your family find yourselves in a situation similar to this father and daughter.  I hope a situation similar to this Danbury family comes to you soon, and I hope you receive exactly what you have given to this father and daughter.

Peninsula Pundit says

I've always said you oftentimes get more news in the comments below than you do from the article itself.

Gopherit & whendoesitend seem to have interesting insights.

danburydad's still grinding his axe.

Wally's got some good suggesions.

Peninsula Pundit says

I've always said you oftentimes get more news in the comments below than you do from the article itself.

Gopherit & whendoesitend seem to have interesting insights.

danburydad's still grinding his axe.

Wally's got some good suggesions.

whendoesitend says

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OMG when will it ever end?  This father and daughter team would wear out the Eveready Battery Bunny with their manipulations and deceitful ploys!!  A person who has the money that he has and then tries to make people feel sorry for him should not be able to sleep at night but they’ve done it for so long, it’s just a way of life.  As for the part of the article where the daughter got him the scooter … why would you purchase a power chair for someone who lives in such a small house?  Maybe she enjoys watching him go round and round in circles like a hamster in a plastic ball?  Surgery…. Well let’s just say all were not warranted. 

There are so many deserving people out there who truly need help but this person is not one of them.  Danbury Trustees, I’m not saying that I agree with everything you do but in this case…I’m 100% behind you.  Change the rule and you are setting up precedence for everyone else.

wallyofthelake says

The ramp could be exactly like the one in the photo (if there is enough space because this is the front landing, maybe a 6' ramp length and then the switchback landing - from the areal photo there does not appear to be enough room to do this). This would take the ramp to near the front property line which would require a variance - but one would probably be granted. But until the family requests something like this, nothing can be done.

The ramp can't go north over the driveway because as the photo shows there is currently not even space to park a car totally on the property except in the garage; not acceptable to eliminate the only parking that exists.

As to why is the property appraised at what it is - the answer is location - on the Peninusla and near the water. This is typical of the market in the area.

gopherit says

Centauri says

The cost of the permit is only $25 unless a variance is required. Then the cost to apply for the variance rises to $200 because of the need to hold a Zoning Hearing.

@ wallyofthelake,    thank you for the information

That lot is only 38' W by 76' D. How can such a small lot be appraised at almost $31,000? The house is small, like a cottage and just under 800 feet square.

There sure are a lot of boats in storage in the area.

Build a small deck over the steps and the ramp could head north along the cottage and over the driveway. Or the ramp could go 9 feet in one direction onto another deck then 9 feet in the opposite direction. It's his home. Call it a "temporary ramp" until it is no longer needed. 

Also like you mentioned, a lift could also be part of the small deck. But those exterior platform lifts are very expensive.

danbury dad says

Once again our tyranical zoning inspector saving our township from a hardend criminal intent on destroying our community. Why is this such an issue? When has common sense been lost in our elected government officials?This is why zoning laws are met with such opposition. To even have a say in what this man wants to do with his own property so he can enjoy it is preposterous. Here is a man who wants to take care of himself and we brand him a zoning violator. We need more common sense and less Botti-Sowers in our township. Or maybe I will get slugged for suggesting this.

wallyofthelake says

The cost of the permit is only $25 unless a variance is required. Then the cost to apply for the variance rises to $200 because of the need to hold a Zoning Hearing.

If you look at the areal photo of the propterty on the auditor's web site:http://www.ottawacountyauditor.org/Map.aspx?Load=String&Todo=Find&SearchString=0141208216115000, it easy to see what the problems are (although without measurements it is hard to definitely judge).

An 18" height would require a ramp 18 feet long and there many not be space on the property to build such a ramp. Perhaps an electric lift would instead be the only solution. But until the daughter comes forward with a proposal of what she wants to have built, it is very difficult to tell what the issues are.

Peninsula Pundit says

A big tip of the hat to the Danbury cops who risked their own health toting Mr. Kobak in and out of his house.

Paying particular attention to the needs of senior citizens in the township has always been a strong suit of the Danbury Police for many years and this episode only reinforces the reputation.

Thanks for service above and beyond.

Centauri says

$200 fee?   Other places only charge $20 or $25 for permits.

I see a lot of ramps attached to homes that are not used after the resident went into a nursing home or passed away.

Perhaps this man could get one of the unused ramps for free?

There are requirements and specifications to building a safe ramp.

sanduskysfallinapart says

maybe you could go through easter seals? my grandmother needed a ramp & we was told about them, we couldn't fully afford the cost of the ramp so we would donate a certain amount of money each month to easter seals in return we got a metal ramp. when she passed they just came an picked it up, they also handled everything, measurings, bringing it putting it together.. two of my neighbors recently received ramps from easter seals. none of us needed building permits either, unless they too handled all of that. to this day our family still donates monthly... I hope the family can contact them and receive the help they need.

gilamonster says

Norma J-C says

at whatever aka revetahw;

The simple solution and the safest one might be to put him in assisted living or have the senior agencies help him. At that age, he doesn't need to be alone and should not be driving if he can't get himself out of the house, in my opinion. Oh and since the paper so conveniently gave out the info that he lives alone, now he is a target for criminals.

bayshore says

This article could have been written about any township, city, village or town in the area that has zoning laws in effect.  The entire article smacks of sensationalist reporting and puts the Register and it's staff right up there with any grocery store tabloid.  Could you have printed a more pathetic picture of the gentleman to promote his cause?  Oh, wait how about him sitting on his scooter chair at the edge of the steps?

Signs at the township border announce to all that enter that zoning is in place and permits are required.  The zoning office is open daily and they have telephone and internet capabilities.

There are many organizations that assist with building the ramps, some help with funding but the recipient and homeowner have to take the first steps to initiate the process.  The "Oh, woe is me" pity party approach is disgusting. 

What is the real vendetta behind this story?  There has to be an issue that is not being made known.   Mr. Kobak and his family can't be that uninformed that they don't know how to get information to move to the next step in the process to get the needed ramp.  If Ms. Kobak could afford to purchase one of the Scooter chairs, there should be some money available to obtain the permits to construct the ramp.

This board, unlike some other local zoning boards, is willing to work with property owners in getting variances where needed and working with people when a variance is not possible to resolve issues instead of just telling you there are no exceptions and variances will not be considered.

Maybe Ms. Kobak should consider submitting her resume' and application for the position of zoning inspector since, effective today August 31, 2011, it is available.

wallyofthelake says

The folks have not made an application for the ramp, they have not presented plans, they have done nothing but complain.

The process is simple. Make an application for what they want to build. If the design complies with zoning requirements, a permit will be issued. If it does not comply, then first review what other options could be considered. If necessary then apply for a variance. If the fee for the Board of Zoning Appeals is a hardship, ask the trustees to waive the fee (but the fee is small compared to what a proper and legal ramp will cost). The variance will probably be granted given the conditions described.

The problem sounds like it is long term so why is this suddenly such a huge issue? Has the family been neglectful of the needs of this person.

Or are the folks involved looking for noteriety? They have done everything but take the logical first step. The have complained to the news media - both press and TV. But they have not taken the first step. Yes they must first obtain a zoning permit so they can then take the next step which is a building permit.

JERRY from SANDUSKY says

Revetahw says

 Just put in a ramp and the he(( with these officials.  Won't matter in few years anyway so just do it and make it a non perminent ramp and then they can't say a damn thing to ya.  This is the sort of stuff that makes people so frustrated with these loons that say oh we must do it by the law...   What ever happened to talking to your neighbor and saying do you mind if I put this in so I can get around and if they say Ok then there should not be a problem.  How about everyone just mind there own damn business and leave these people alone!

LCP88 says

 I feel that this should not wait!  It is Walter's right under ADA to have acess to his home!  Call all the goverment agencies that provide grant money to Danbury and tell them his fight for the right to be able to enter and exit his home under his own power! 

Thanks I care for posting the legal definition.  Ask a local boy scout troop to build it for Walter, as part of a Eagle badge.  Or another group like 4-H  who cares about community.

This is just appalling and Danbury Twp. should be ashamed !   Maybe the trustee's should build it for Walter, and bypass the zoning laws!  

DanburyResident says

Why isn't the zoning inspector being proactive?  If one design doesn't work, why not visit the residence and work something out with the contractor?  I know they are out checking other projects.  $200 for a ramp permit is a bit much.

Marcus M says

Kottage Kat what does this article have to do with your constant :Duncan For Mayor" crusade.  Do you have difficulty breathing with your nose so high up Duncan's posterior?

Factitious says

The cops come on demand and carry the gentleman to his car, and we're complaining about the government? Seriously?

Danbury Twp. went without zoning for waaaaay too long and some really absurd things happened.

We just need some common sense here. His caregivers may just be asking the wrong questions. The building officials can't just say, "Oh, do whatever you want. Ignore the rules." There's another side to this story.

It's unlikely that any kind of permit is really necessary for a "temporary" ramp. Just build it, and don't run it across the sidewalk or your neighbor's driveway.

There's probably plenty of advice and help available with this, BTW. a good place to start might be Ottawa County Senior Resources. 877-898-6459
_______________

icare201138 says

I would suggest that this gentleman and his daughter review the regulations and directives provideed thorugh the DOJ and HUD.  You may access preliminary information at: http://www.hud.gov/offices/fheo/disabilities/reasonable_modifications_mar08.pdf

Additionally, as a general rule, this is the formal Federal position, on issues of this nature:

U.S. DEPARTMENT OF JUSTICE

CIVIL RIGHTS DIVISION

SamAdams says

Nooooooo, zoning laws aren't out of hand at ALL...!

Apparently the township thinks its residents are safer if the police have to deal with simple problems that the homeowner himself could manage if he were allowed to do so. I'm not criticiing the police, here. I think what they're doing is both kind and generous. But seriously, what if he CAN'T get out of his home? What if the police are late to a true emergency because the elderly gentleman has a routine doctor's appointment and they're carrying him down his steps when the call comes in?

Yes, laws exist for a reason. But sometimes those reasons — and the laws that follow them — cross well over the line into "ridiculous" territory!

IT'S ME says

Sounds like the city employees are doing their job, he's just trying to pull the disabled card and go around the laws. I hate people like this who think laws don't apply to them for some reason, weather your poor, rich, black, or white, we ALL must follow the laws!

Darkhorse says

Wouldn't if be easier to work with the gentleman rather then have the Civil Rights group breathing down your neck and end up with a lawsuit? Danbury needs to revist their codes.  First of all, the permit fee of $200 is way too steep for a disabled person to meet. There should be wiggle room for discretion when it comes to a disabled person either reducing or waiving the permit fee and working with the resident to make it all happen for the resident.  Thumbs down to Danbury for not working things out to a happy ending and now it has become a legal matter.  

The Answer Person says

@Kottage Kat.  Not everything is the fault of the "officials".  If you read the article, they know little if anything about this issue!

Sounds more like they sit home waiting for it all to happen.

I agree, move in with the daughter.  Not everything in this American Plan is FREE nor should it be!

Kottage Kat says

Why should this man be forced out of his home?  If he and his family are trying to do the right thing to keep some small measure of independance, then perhaps some degree of meeting them 1/2 way on this issue could pave the road to resolution, and Mr. Koback could stay in his home and keep his independance for as long as possible.  Your remarls were cold at best.

The Answer Person says

Why not have it come out the BACK DOOR?  Then the whole street issue is GONE GONE GONE!

JERRY from SANDUSKY says

will you wave fee and rules for everybody.....................

take your dad to your home or asisted living or vet's home

Kottage Kat says

This so sad, this elderly gentleman is having his chance at becoming somewhat more independant taken away from him. SHAME ON the officials who are making this difficult, if he were a drug dealer, or killed a defenseless dog,perhaps circumventing the law would be far easier. God Bless you sir, and you are in my prayers for a favorable outcome to this fiasco.