Jack518 says

I cannot wait until the government bans alcohol! Then, lets see how all the self righteous citizens scream. I thought this was a free country. Maybe they will require all workers be married, and only to the opposite sex. Better yet, let them reqiure only virgins work there. Wait a minute, lets outlaw gambling! Boy, the list gets longer!

sanduskysteve says

Origen - this one I agree with you on.

origen says

Heaven forbid they test welfare recipients for drugs but good lord test the heck out of people willing to work for a perfectly legal substance, I see how people think they are trying to force people on the gov dole. Freakin stupidity in action.

Ned Mandingo says

taxpayer, How can some like you who claims to have all these employees and a great business not understand  a simple article?

You asked "What I want to know is how will anyone know if you smoke at home or on your own time?  How are they going to monitor that? " Read the article, it states random nicotine testing  will be conducted after hired. I would expect that someone who claims to have company vehicles with employees driving them could understand that.

sanduskysteve says

Doesn't dip contain nicotine?  wouldn't that show up in a test for nicotine?  Isn't that a tobacco use?  Not sure that would fly either.  The real solution is to apply to the other two casinos who aren't acting like jerks.

And for those who aren't reading this article properly, the smoking ban doesn't apply to your time at work - it applies to your free time at home as well and they are going to do random nicotine tests, which means they are also discriminating against those who may be trying to stop by wearing nicotine patches.

origen says

Just start dipping, No smoking there is a alternitive Just keep the spitoons out or youll need Galashes to walk through the spit filled break areas.

sanduskysteve says

BD - I want a piece of that action.  I could clean house on a bet like that.

The Big Dog's back says

 I bet if it were Solyndra or General Motors the right wingers would be all over it.

Kottage Kat says

Electronic cigarettes??? 

Taxpayer says

You nasty smokers just can't catch a break.  This almost sounds like discrimination.  Don't like it?  File a UNION grievance.  Ha! Ha!  I guess all those "smoke breaks" are down the drain.  What I want to know is how will anyone know if you smoke at home or on your own time?  How are they going to monitor that?  How is "big brother" going to know if you live in a household where a smoking relative enjoys several packs a day??  As long as you do NOT smoke while on the job and OBEY the work rules against open smoking, who really cares?  Some nasty smokers can manage their smoking well where it does not affect anyone.  Many are very considerate and can manage their habit until they are off.  You know, like those of you who try and hide smoking your "joints" like Willie Nelson.  Ha! Ha!  I do NOT allow any smoking, chaw or dipping by employees on work sites or in company vehicles.  Nothing is worse than having an employee representing your name spitting in front of clients (like SPD) or talking with a stogie hanging out of their mouth.  Don't like it?  Your FIRED!  What you do at home or away from work is your business.  Just make sure when you clock in, you are sober, do not stink, on time, not be a two-bit common thief thug, be productive and follow the work rules.  You will have no problems working for me.   

Hmm says

I think all drug testing has to ability to determine these things.  Often people try to blame traces of marijuana on second hand smoke, but as I understand it, the tests can tell the difference.  So it wouldn't be any different for cigarettes.  As for nicotine patches - not so sure.

Hmm says

I think all drug testing has to ability to determine these things.  Often people try to blame traces of marijuana on second hand smoke, but as I understand it, the tests can tell the difference.  So it wouldn't be any different for cigarettes.  As for nicotine patches - not so sure.

sanduskysteve says

Thank you - now I wonder if that same type of testing can be used to tell the difference between someone actually smoking grass or someone who was near them and didn't actually smoke it?

I also have my doubts that the casinos are paying for special testing.  I also question the idea that they won't accept someone who is trying to quit and only using patches or gum or one of the other aides.  Seems like that is kind of counter productive as well.  I mean - the nicotine surely isn't the cause of cancer.

Hmm says

You're right.  My bad.  I did a little research and apparantly quantitative testing can be done to distinguish between a smoker and someone who was exposed to second had smoke.  Problem solved.

sanduskysteve says

Sorry - the only way the nicotine can get into your system is thru the smoke - if it is in the smoke - there is some in the exhaled smoke as well.  Do you know anything about how to smoke a cigarette?  You suck in the smoke and then inhale it.  The nicotine, if it exists, is in the smoke.  The longs do not remove all of the nicotine from the smoke.  it is possible that the nicotine is in the system even if you don't inhale - must be in the smoke.

Hmm says

The nicotine doesn't get into your system from second hand smoke.  The smoke does.  Nice try though.

sanduskysteve says

Sandusky - excellent point - but if it won't show up - then it really destroy's all of that nonsense about second-hand smoke at that point doesn't it?  Would be good to get to test that theory then.

SanduskyExpat says

So, wait.  They will be doing screenings every once in awhile to randomly test for nicotine in a person's system.  But, if the person were to come into contact with smoke via standing next to a smoker while they're smoking at some point and the next day they have a nicotine test administered... they would get fired?  How can that be, when smoking tobacco is legal and the company has no position to control the actions of people that don't even work for it?

The Big Dog's back says

 I hear you Steve. I don't get it.

sanduskysteve says

BD - you don't alway make sense, but when you do - it is absolute sense!  I'm behind you on this one for sure.  It is amazing the ones that want all of the polution of the air with carbon monoxide (isn't that the main substance of cigarate smoke?) and other things which cause cancer is ok as long as it isn't from cigarettes.  Why?  They have already made about as much money as they can from smokers - but they can still make tons from industry and manufacturing.

Every republican I know wants to stop the EPA from setting rules for manufacturing and factories to follow to protect the air - but by God, you better not be smoking a cigarette - it wil cause cancer all over the world - even to those who aren't smoking!

WOW!  GOP - make up your damn minds please - either you are for clean air or you are against it.  Which is it going to be?

Make a decision and let's stick to it!  And while you are at it - how many rich people - and almost all those in congress smoke cigars?  Talk about smelly.  Worse than cigarettes.

The Big Dog's back says

 Thank God fossil fuels don't cause dangers like cancer.

Cross says

Someone ignorant enough to smoke despite the inordinate amount of science showing how idiotic it is, as well as the many dangers of second hand smoke, wants to discuss intelligence. You've already lost.

Sadly, anything personal would be out of the question, because like all smokers you stink. The pity is you can't even tell how bad you smell due to the degradation of your senses due to your dirty habit.

Gain more bearing Ulrich. Come back again when you quit smoking and are more worthy. If not, I'll wave as the lung cancer ravages your body, or worse, the family you are hurting due to being a weakling who is owned by the tobacco industry

sanduskysteve says

Cooncat - can't blame this one on  Ohio - too bad too - but this was the casino's rules - not the state's rule.  The other two casino have no such rules.

WaterStreetCooncat says

 Just like backwards thinking Ohio: "No, I don't smoke, but I have a gambling addiction from going to casinos all the time"...GOOD, YOU'RE HIRED!

Funny scenario: A casino patron goes to the cigarette machine & buys a pack of smokes & goes outside. A casino employee goes out sor a dip of some Skoal. The tobacco cops come running out to tell him he's fired, yet hold the door open for the patrons who just got done having a cigarette.

kURTje says

In need of a lawyer.         My government gave smokes in to all receiving C Rations.      Since war can be stessfull some non-smokers started to smoke.          Maybe a class action suit should started against    The DOD............

lifetimeresident says

Theres a real easy solution to this.  Cut out all insurance paid by the employer.  Keep in mind this is a gift.  Add the savings on to the employees wages.  Then let every employee buy their own insurance.

jon491 says

WISH THEY WOULD PUT A DELETE BUTTON ON THE EDIT OPTION.

gilamonster says

jon491 says

BytheBy says

Cross

As someone who smokes I can attest to the FACT that I have not missed a day of work in 17 years. I take the required breaks like everyone else. I smoke, they wolf down Twinkies. I exercise, they are couch potatoes!
Not only am I in perfect shape, but I am pretty sure I could best you at any activity, be it brains or brawn!

So take your generalizations and go sit in the corner with your dunce cap on!

big_d says

This is a long article but it clears what what companies can and can't do.

Introduction

Lynne Gobbell was fired because her boss didn't like the bumper sticker on her car.

During the 2004 presidential election, Gobbell put a "Kerry for President" sticker on her bumper. When her boss saw it, he said Gobbell could "either work for John Kerry or work for me." Gobbell refused to take the sticker off her car and was immediately fired.

Gobbell fell into the black hole of human rights in the United States. The United States invented human rights. People in many countries can only dream about the freedoms we enjoy. In America, you can criticize any government official you want, including the president, even in rude or profane terms, without fear of punishment. Do the same thing in China, Russia, Iran, Kenya, or Guatemala, and you could wind up in prison or worse.

But Lynne Gobbell's freedom, and yours, disappears every morning when you go to work. The United States Constitution applies to the government, not to corporations. A private business, large or small, can legally ignore your freedom of speech. Where your employer is concerned, you have no such right.

Freedom of speech isn't the only right that disappears in the world of work. Privacy disappears too. If the government wants to tap your phone or read your e-mail, it needs to have evidence that you are doing something illegal. In most cases, it needs a court order. But employers routinely monitor telephone calls, e-mail, Web site visits, and virtually every other type of electronic communication.

This surveillance isn't limited to business-related matters; an e-mail you send to your spouse or doctor during your lunch break is just as likely to be read. When you bring your company-issued laptop in for updating or repair, the technician will probably look at anything that appears interesting. Even the contents of your home computer are at risk. Some employers, like Johnson County Community College, in Kansas, have gotten away even with installing hidden cameras in locker rooms and bathrooms.

Under the doctrine of employment at will, your boss can fire you for any reason, or no reason at all. Some employers use this power to control the private lives of their employees. Best Lock Company in Indiana fires workers for social drinking because its president believes drinking alcohol is a sin. Other companies, looking to curtail medical expenses, forbid employees from smoking in their own homes or engaging in risky hobbies like skiing.

You lose your rights before you even get a job. Many employers now conduct extensive investigations into prospective employees. If you've ever been arrested, you probably won't get the job, even if you weren't found guilty. If your credit history is spotty, it can cost you a job, even if the job has nothing to do with handling money. Other employers turn down people because of their driving record, even for jobs that don't involve driving. And even if your background is spotless, you can still lose the job because the information broker gets you mixed up with someone else with a similar name.

If you survive this gauntlet, the drug test is waiting for you. No sensible employer wants to hire a drug abuser, but drug tests can't tell if someone is an abuser, only that someone used drugs at some point in the past. If you've ever smoked marijuana at a party, you could be in for trouble. When your body metabolizes something you ingest, the chemicals it creates (called metabolites) stay in your body for days, or even weeks. Even if you've never touched drugs, you're not safe. Some employers use cheap tests that mistake Advil, Sudafed, NyQuil, and other over-the-counter medications for illegal drugs. Even if proper testing is used, labs often make mistakes. A study by the Centers for Disease Control found that 37 percent of drug test results were wrong; the samples labeled positive were actually clean. And don't count on having any privacy for the test; some employers have "urination monitors" watch everyone while they fill the cup to make sure nobody is cheating.

Finally there are the psychological tests. Some are designed to test your honesty. The only problem with those is that most of the people who fail are honest. Others ask about your sex life, religious beliefs, and other highly personal matters having nothing to do with your ability to do the job.

You may have already lost a job because of one of these pre-employment screenings without even knowing it. The law does not require employers to tell unsuccessful applicants why they weren't hired, and most employers don't. Some employers lie about why you weren't hired. The bottom line is, you'll never know why you were turned down.

As bad as things are, they are going to get worse. All new cell phones are now required by federal law to come equipped with the Global Positioning System (GPS). Some employers who issue company cell phones use this technology to track employees during their private lives, often in secret. Recently developed genetic tests allow employers to determine whether you carry the genes linked to breast cancer, Alzheimer's, and other serious illnesses. Employers are starting to use this knowledge to keep people out of the workforce to save money on corporate medical costs. Some biometric security systems, such as retina scans (which chart the blood vessels in your eye), reveal sensitive medical information such as whether you are diabetic, and facilitate identity theft.

Even in the few areas of employment where you do have legal rights, it can be nearly impossible to enforce them. Almost 20 percent of employers today require all employees to agree in advance not to go to court if the company violates their legal rights, and to take their dispute to a private arbitration system selected (and sometimes run) by the employer. If you don't agree, you don't get the job. Some of these programs are fair. But others are kangaroo courts in which employers may handpick the arbitrators and deny employees the right to have a lawyer, or whose rules don't require the arbitrator to follow the law.

Traditionally, employees who are being treated unfairly have been able to protect themselves by joining a union. Union contracts generally prohibit most of these abuses. But joining a union has become a dangerous undertaking. Over eight thousand employees are fired every year simply for trying to join one. Technically, this kind of firing is illegal, but the penalties are so trivial that employers just pay the fines and keep breaking the law.

There is something profoundly disturbing, almost schizophrenic, about our approach to human rights. We have fought wars, millions of us have served in the military, and several hundred thousand Americans have died, defending our country and protecting our freedom of speech and other rights. Yet we have created a legal system that leaves those rights in the wastebasket when we go to work.

We could have changed our laws to outlaw these abuses, but we haven't. A handful of states have enacted laws that prohibit employers from firing people because of their politics or putting video cameras in bathrooms. But in most states, all the abuses I've described are completely legal.

As of now, there isn't much you can do to protect yourself from these abuses, but there are some actions you can take, starting with learning more about the company before you accept a job. If you've already accepted the job, you may be able to learn more about the company's practices or even persuade your boss to modify the plan.

In the long run, however, the only answer is to change the law. There is no reason why we should have to give up our rights as American citizens to get a job. Employers that respect employee rights generally outperform competitors that abuse employees. This book will tell you more about how to protect yourself to the extent you can under existing law and how to help change the law to provide better protection for human rights.

Over two hundred years ago, Americans decided that they were no longer going to allow the government to violate their human rights. That decision was a milestone in human history. It is time to make another historic decision: our employers must respect our rights as well.

Excerpted from Can They Do That?: Retaking Our Fundamental Rights in the Workplace by Lewis Maltby by arrangement with Portfolio, a member of Penguin Group (USA) Inc. Copyright Lewis Maltby, 2009.

Ned Mandingo says

If i had a company could i not hire fat people because insurance is more expensive for them. Could i discriminate against alcholics who are addicted to the most dangerious drug in the world. could i have a policy of not hiring black people because they could  have a chance of getting sickle cell or a higher chance of  getting diabetes. Could i test for tylenol because prolonged use causes liver damage. I see the companies point but tobacco is not a illegal drug. It should be but its not. Most indian tribes have tobacco outlets and some have their own brands. I guess this will be one for the courts to figure out. 

I say break out the small pox blankets again.lol 

patriot5 says

origen says

LOL!! All this applause for a company who discriminates against people because of free choices, Maybe someday the discrimination will come back to haunt you in a way. (No transfats and a Fat test to see if your hireable). Seems no one wants to respect the choices made on free time (If they dont smoke on the job and use thier breaks whats the diff?) I would seem to think obese or those with questionable lifestyles would be a greater risk (by questionable i mean those who like sky diving or snow skiing i.e high risk health risk people). But hey throwing my money at a losers gamble isnt my thing.

I wonder if they will hire alcoholics, seeing they will serve alcohol? (No risk in that huh?)

Captain Gutz says

kitty kitty kitty,

Whose the idiot? You admittedly work without pay 25 minutes of each workday. If you quit smoking you could give your employer that additional 80 minutes for free also.

Would it matter to me if anyone, smoker or not, was wasting time? Do you really think I cut someone slack and let them screw off because they don't smoke?

Too bad you don't have enough self control to quit your filthy lethal habit.

By the way, you need to tell your boss that these other people are coming in 10 minutes late and "bullshooting" for 2 hours, they are playing you like a hamburger. Or are you too ignorant to see that?

You are lucky not to have me for a boss, since you wouldn't last long. Besides I don't have any openings for a non skilled menial laborer.

Hows your cough?

Truth or Dare says

Hey goof;  You being facetious again?!  The Indian Casinos I've been in, well, I haven't ever seen one person smoking payote, let alone cigarettes whilst inside the casino and gambling.   Now, out at the piece of  homestead our  Govt. was kind enough to give back to them,  it might be so, but then again I've not been there to see w/my own eyes. It would however, be quite similiar to the Casino big-wigs that smoke their own cigs, or stoagies whilst in the privacey of their own home or  inside/outside their own lil private clubs though, right?  Oh, wait, that doesn't happen does it?!      

This is the kind of rampant,  hypocritical Lawmakers'/big bussiness bs that forces me to not visit and spend my $$$'s at such places, and why I don't spend/send one red $ent to support one politician.    I wonder how much liquid poison will be flowing on a daily basis?   That never negatively affects one's life, let alone their liver, eh?  And gambling, no one's ever lost their horse, their home, the farm, their family or taken their own life from such an addiction, right?    When they advertised their job fairs for hiring, was the no-smoking clause announced?  Or did thousands upon thousands of people waste their time, effort, and $$$'s to show up, stand in line for an opportunity when there really was none?  No opportunity to opt-out of coverage?  What if they're already covered under another policy, like a spouses through their employer, or you could still be covered under your parents, or you could be privately covered, imagine that!   

Here is why this bothers me, as big  tobacco companies  are still allowed to put all those addictive, cancer causing chemicals/agents in the cigs.   They're even more addictive today then they were 20 yrs. ago.  But that's ok, right?  All the while the Govt. reaps the benefit of the "sin" tax off those that do smoke, as well drink and gamble, and the Tabacco, Liquour and Casino's reap their profit being the pushers and facilitators, our Govt. as well.    But here in Ohio, if you smoke.....something that's legal, you won't work?      Such hypocrites we have here in Ohio!    

 I'm hoping something comes out of this, such as an issue on a State of Ohio ballot that we can vote upon, making Ohio State #30 that won't allow discrimination in the workplace, especially  by allowing  healthcare coverage to be the weapon used.           

katelih says

.....lol

Informed says

Do you people realize that there are other places that no longer hire smokers?  Such as Firelands Regional Medical Center.  I don't blame them.  And for those of you bragging how healthy you are despite your smoking, you are looking at exceptions, not the rule.  I am sure these employers have this rule for many reasons, including wanting to keep insurance costs down, not wantig to have to deal with a "smoking area" outside, and not wanting to have employees who reek of cigarette smoke even though they don't think they do.  There is no such thing as smoking rights so either quit or apply to work somewhere else. 

Cross says

The Big Dog's back says

 It would be pretty interesting knucklehead because I support 2nd Amendment rights also.

meowmix says

AMEN--Sandusky Steve, FruGalSpender, 44846, grinenbareit, etal.

I only wish this web site could offer "thumbs up" to comments made.   In the words of TAXPAYER.

ALL of YOU made GREAT points!!!!!!!!

meowmix says

meowmix says

Private Putz:   You really are an idiot.   Even if I spend 10 minutes out of every hour in my day having a smoke that equals 80 minutes in a 9 hour work day for me.  I arrive 15 minutes early to work each and every day while my non-smoking counterparts are at least 10 minutes late every day (which they do not claim on their time card).    I do not sit around and bullshoot for a minimum of 2 hours of my day, then take two 15 minute breaks plus my lunch hour as do the non-smokers.   I get an hour lunch which I work through and two 15 minute breaks--that equals 90 minutes.  So, in essence I am giving my employer an extra 25 minutes of free time each and every day.

But hey, you as a "boss" only notice it if I'm outside.  Wouldn't matter to you if my a$$ was sitting in a co-worker's office for over 1/2 hour talking about my latest shopping spree eh? 

I guess I should be counting myself lucky not to have an a$$ like you as a boss, because you really are one.

Captain Gutz says

None are so blind as they who will not see.

No catfood, I did not contradict myself. If you work for me and I say you can't smoke, then if you smoke, you will no longer work for me. Yes, you have all the right in the universe to smoke on your free time, but then you won't be working for me if that's my company policy. Not a thing you can do about changing that.  The least productive workers I've had over the years have been the smokers. I'm happy to report none of my current employees are stupid enough to smoke.

"As a smoker, I find it ironic that the least productive people I happen to work with are the non-smokers who stand around gossiping each other's cubicles all day."  Yes and it's really productive when you literally burn 10 minutes every hour standing outside sucking in toxic smoke. If I am really am  "quite  an idiot", you've gotta be King of the Ignoramuses.

Go visit someone in the last stages of lung cancer. I'm amazed at the denial I see here regarding smoking and cancer.

grandmasgirl says

OK, so these employers will not hire people who smoke, nor let their customers smoke. Yet another employer who has no problem with his customers smoking is not allowed to let them do so. Freedom is getting harder and harder to find. BTW, my dad started smoking at age 16 and smoked 3 packs of unfiltered Camels a day and died at the age of 75 from a doctor's carelessness. I firmly believe that most cancers are genetic. Otherwise, why do doctors ask you if anyone in your family has ever had cancer?

sanduskysteve says

Meowmix - I am almost 60 and I endure the exact same thing at my work.  I hardly ever miss work and I only get ONE cold a year.  I have NEVER been to the hospital - even a broken bone - and I have not had any kind of surgery in or out.  My relative - most non-smoking - have had cancel - and many other things.

If you ask me - the start of cancel is when you have surgery - or have to be hospitalized for something requiring getting inside the body.  The body doesn't like to be disturbed.  Almost everyone I know who has cancel has had multiple surgeries prior to developing it and were in perfect health before the surgery.  Other than what they were operated for - and in some cases that was unnecessary.

I think the biggest reason we have as many issues with healthcare is because the doctors create them to stay in business and out on the golf course.

The bottom line is simple - smoking is not illegal - it surely isn't costing the casino anything - because the casino is NOT paying your health insurance - and so the casino is discriminating against very fine reliable workers so they can hire a bunch of thiefs and drug addicts that know how to get around drug tests.

Yes, they do and they do it well.  Or at least that was the excuse used for NOT drug testing welfare recipients - BUT, if you want to work for the casinos - you will take a drug test AND stop smoking something LEGAL even.  What a bunch of losers.  They will pay for it - there are two other casinos in the state that aren't doing this - they are doing it the right way.  They will get the business.

sanduskysteve says

knuckledragger - that's fine with me - as long as I get to tell you that because you work for me and I don't like guns - that you have to get rid of all of your guns at home - afterall I'm paying your health insurance AND life insurance - and YOUR guns could accidently kill you or get you seroiusly injured at some point.

That's where the analogy SHOULD have been given.  I doubt that anyone would object to you bringing your gun with you to visit them.

Gutz - First - FREE time is just that - Cigarettes are LEGAL - and where does anything say that the casinos are PAYING for YOUR insuracne?  I didn't catch that when I read it.  It only said insurance would be cheaper.  And by the way this is an insurance issue - not the casino's issue.  The only way in hell that this would effect the insurance the casino is paying for - would be if the casino has life insurance on their employees, which every in a previous article comments has stated was a very wrong thing to do (especially Walmart doing it).

Smoking employees are being banned simply because the casino is not being allowed to have smoking patrons - and no other reason.  Which is why the other two casino's are not making a big deal about it.  Personally, I have never seen a casino that didn't allow smoking even if there IS a state smoking ban and the state should have thought about this in the first place - but NOBODY thinks of the procussions of something they want to do so bad they can taste - then it later comes back to bite them in the a$$ - as this smoking ban did almost from day one.

AHA was soo hellbent on getting this ban thru that there was no thought about the reprocussions it would mean later down the road a few years or so.  It was a very badly written law and should have never made it thru no matter what.   Even with other option would have allowed smoking in casinos - but we didn't want that because it would also allow smoking in PRIVATE venues - oh how horrible that could have been.

Sometimes it's a wonder that Ohio survived this long with the non-thinking self-centered nose-butting-into people that live here.

meowmix says

Oh, an Cappy Putz, you contradicted yourself.  On one hand you say if I work for you, you own me and what I elect to do should be controlled by you if you're paying my health insurance and then you said:

"I'd call THAT an OBVIOUS LOGICAL decision. It's a PRIVATE company. Just like YOUR private HOME"

You really are quite an idiot.

meowmix says

As a smoker, I find it ironic that the least productive people I happen to work with are the non-smokers who stand around gossiping each other's cubicles all day.  They are also the one who call in sick every other week and are quite the hypochondriac's,  

While if I call in sick twice a year due to the common cold they preach to me about my smoking.  Unreal. 

To hell also with smoker's not being afforded insurance also.   I have NEVER (in over 50 plus years) have had surgery- I have no clue what it feels like to be put under.  I am in great health but yet I have to endure non-smoker's droning on and on to me their health issues as if it is some type of merit badge.

My mother had and was cured of breast cancer--non-smoker.   My sister is currently undergoing chemo and later radiation for breast cancer--non-smoker.

If I put in a hard day's work like all other's I should be afforded the same benefits.   I hope someone challenges these casino's as most likely they are depriving themselves of great employees by being discriminatory.

goofus says

Exactly Truth or Dare, let the indians run it, I'm serious! At least we'd be able to smoke payote!!