AG has some explaining to do

Register
Oct 4, 2013

 

Desi Arnez's character, Ricky Ricardo, bellowed the phrase every time he discovered his wife Lucy's latest scheme. 

We're not sure it was a scheme at the Ohio Attorney General's office, and at the state Bureau of Criminal Investigation that it operates, but it appears possible and even probable, it was bungled, at minimum, and puts a taint on the AG's investigation of the killing of Jacob Limberios on March 2, 2012. 

A half-dozen polygraphists — experts in the field of lie detection — dismissed the findings of lie detector tests administered to two witnesses by the BCI in June 2012, a year before the AG's office took full control over the investigation. 

The BCI tests found the witnesses likely were being truthful, but the experts say the methodology and programming used for the tests renders the results useless, a coin toss. The AG office's suggested lie detector tests cannot be used in court, and therefore don't otherwise matter to the investigation. But that is a total cop out, an excuse used to avoid the difficult questions false tests by the BCI presents.

And the witnesses both were guests on the "Dr. Phil" program, at which time they agreed to take lie detector tests again.  

The BCI polygraphs were used as a tool during the initial stages of the local investigations to dissuade Mike and Shannon Limberios from pushing for answers about their son's death. If the challenge from experts to the validity of the BCI tests proves accurate, then how did it happen that investigators provided inaccurate and misleading information, why did it happen and what corrective actions will there be to assure it doesn't happen again?

And if the "Dr. Phil" tests results suggest deception, what then?

Ohio Attorney General Mike DeWine will have to answer those questions and others. 

His investigators, assistant attorneys general Matt Donahue and Marianne Hemmeter also will have to answer the questions they've been dodging, making sure their investigation includes interviewing each and every witness with any potential to provide any useful information. 

Every witness, even the ones who make guest appearances on the "Dr. Phil" program. 

Comments

Detrain

Well said matt

gramafun

I am TOTALLY confused? Lie detector tests are not admissisable in court, so what explaining does the AG now have to do, along with the others who have done these tests? Just because you get varying answers to these tests, which the family may or may not like, what is the problem? You can't use the results anyway.

First the family didn't like what they heard from the county. Then they didn't like what they got from the investigation teams. Now they don't like what they are hearing from the AG. They DO like what they heard from Dr. Phil because it flows with what they suspect? Is that the case? Just state it please in plain, simple OUTRIGHT terms, not suspicious innuendo, but in plain terms. Does the family hear from Dr. Phil that their son was murdered by one of the individuals in that house and that is what they believe? Plain and simple? Straight up? And that is what they want someone to come out and say? Not that Jacob pulled the trigger? Because I am totally confused by all this back and forth.

registerer

^^like^^

Ithink

The AG's office is refusing to interview any of the witnesses that were at the house at the time of the shooting. How does that make for a 'thorough' investigation, regardless of any lie detector test?

Erieboater

It's actually DESI ARNAZ. You got BOTH names wrong. Does anybody actually research and proof around there? I see these kinds of mistakes quite often.

Matt Westerhold

Thanks Erieboater. The tyop has been corrected. 

registerer

Moderators have removed this comment because it contained Personal attacks (including: name calling, presumption of guilt or guilt by association, insensitivity, or picking fights).

The Bizness

I saw nothing wrong with this comment

Kelly

Neither did I.

skydog44870

Excellent article Matt and the Sandusky Register staff. Now it seems you fully understand what certain people have been up against. Hopefully you will learn more. Stay tuned.

Truth or Dare

Hey Granny; Ohio IS just one of 22 states where such a test that has a "50/50" chance of being spot on, or better yet results that can be altered in different ways, ARE ADMISSABLE within a court of law! I would gather Ohioans or anyone the test is administered to, the results being allowed within a court of law, is at the mercy of whomever the Judge is sitting on the bench! Much like this case! We see where those Judges ended up, right? If you don't think there isn't corruption within our courts of law as well, think again!

So we now know Ohio uses an over 50 yr. old test! I have a feeling good ole Doc Phil and his team can afford the new, up to date version! I guess if I were lying through my teeth about how an acquaintance was killed, I would pick the Ohio BCI's version of a Lie Detector Test! The trail of injustice started that night and found it's way right to Columbus. That office's hands aren't clean regarding this matter! What we're seeing is our Ohio government doing their utmost best to cover up what wasn't done, rather than what should of been done from the beginning! I'm fairly sure they thought the family wouldn't stand their ground and fight! A fight that's right up there with David vs. Goliath!

gramafun

Truth or Dare...then spit out PLAINLY that you and the folks around you think somebody SHOT Jake instead of all this "pussy footing" around. I will tell you I haven't followed this like many folks have truthfully and don't know all the ins and outs of it. I know there are signs everywhere for "Justice" but when you have something to say, say it plainly and clearly!!! All this quiet rhetoric gets you no where but confusion and that is really evident, isn't it?

I mean ABSOLUTELY NO DISRESPECT TO ANYONE INVOLVED. Please understand that, but if Jake was my son, and I thought someone had shot him, I would be saying so and no one would stop me. I would be screaming it from the roof tops. Why all the fear of saying so? Why are they afraid of the cops? The law? What is it? Bless the SR for their help, but I would have hired a private investigater out of the gate and got it done.

This is just silly, all this lie detector stuff is just ridiculous. Who cares about it????

Why hasn't anyone asked for an indictment? Or gone for any arrests if they thought he was murdered or killed? I don't get it?

Sam

"AG has some explaining to do." Wasn't it this newspaper that called for the AG to take over the investigation, now because it doesn't go their way, there's explaining need? If someone doesn't agree with Dr Phil can we seek Oprah's expert analysis? (sarcasm)...

brassman

Oprah will have to wait. They're trying to get Nancy Grace.

gramafun

OMG...not the queen or scream???? "unleash the lawyers".....good grief!!!!

Truth or Dare

Hey granny; I'm not pussy footing around anything, so here it is plainly, if you want to know why the signs are out, what the uproar is all about, go back to when this first began and BEGIN YOUR OWN RESEARCH OF THIS SITUATION. Its as easy as tippytyping on your computer! The info. is there if you really care to know, but let me put it as plainly as possible, w/o accusing someone of murder, cause if that's what it was it makes this all the more of a hard pill to swallow! By the way, making such an accusation here can get your arse in trouble!

See, it starts with Jake's death, then the fact no investigation was done, then SC LE allowing evidence to be destroyed or only God knows what was done with it and determining cause of death for the SC Coroner who didn't even have the decency to come to the scene, ruling it an "accidental suicide", an oxymoron, and when the family did seek information and asked for an autopsy of which was refused, ran into one brick wall after another. The request for an autopsy was refused by SC officials, forcing the family to have one done themselves. They were given direction through Ohio State University as to how to go about getting one. Hence, the first time Jake was taken out of the ground and an autopsy done by not just anyone, but by someone who is a true CRIMINAL FORENSIC PATHOLOGIST AND IS KNOWN QUITE WELL AROUND THE WORLD. Those results, not good enough for SC. So they determined they were going to dig Jake up again, bringing EC officials into the mix to do their own. Something they refused from the beginning!!!!!!! I also happen to live in Erie County, and in all honesty, don't appreciate that our govt. officials and LE were drug into this to get that court order to exhume Jake AGAIN!

I have no skin in this, I don't even know the family personally, but what I do have skin in, is the fact that I'm a resident of the State of Ohio, I drive to work in SC 5 days a week and if something were to happen to me, these are the kind of folks in govt. positions, who sit on the bench and judge us, that my family would have to trust would do right by me? Are you freakin kidding me?!

By the way, I can't stand Nancy Grace. Why? Because I don't think cameras have anyplace within a court of law and especially regarding high profile cases! I figure if someone cares enough, they'll take their happy arses into the courtroom and find a seat. On that note, not a Facebook fan, but when I get that ph. to call, I'll be calling myself. Why? Because I think NATIONAL ATTENTION IS NEEDED ON HOW SC SEEMS TO THINK THEY CAN OPERATE, as this isn't the only case they've mishandled, and of course were cleared of any wrongdoing w/those kind of Judges, and just maybe it'll start some dialogue about how badly reform is needed regarding Coroners that really aren't qualified to do their job and getting paid quite well! Like I said, if you want to understand better, PLEASE Google Frontline's Documentary: Post Mortum. It's only an hour out of your day. You may actually learn about something that many find completely UNACCEPTABLE, UNRIGHTEOUS AND ABSOLUTELY CORRUPT! Yet most doing the job all across America, aren't really qualified and their ELECTED POLITICAL POSITIONS are supported by us with our tax $$$$'s. Don't know about you, but I have a major problem with that in and of itself!

By the way, while you're at it, Google info. regarding "Rise of the Warrior Cop - The Militarization of America's Police Forces", by Radley Balko. It'll shed a little light as to why some within LE conduct business the way they do, i.e. SC LE!

Centauri

http://mag.newsweek.com/2010/03/...
"In the Buckeye State, even the reformers are corrupt—and the populist heroes are federal criminals."

BCI? Lie detectors?

How about this fine specimen of a BCI agent?
http://news.google.com/newspaper...
Tells women to strip and bathe to get better results.

The Giver

I have been keeping up on this story from day one. It's very apparent the Register and the family have formulated an opinion without truly knowing all the facts. Is it right to form these opinions and ridicule Sandusky County officials and state officials without TRULY KNOWING all the facts? Or does the Register and family believe they know all the facts? If I were to make an educated guess, it sounds as though Sandusky County officials and those involved with the investigation have made several attempts to reach out and explain what is known in the investigation. The family has the support of the Register, and appears unwilling to accept what the investigation has yielded or is perhaps going to yield. My question to you and the family is are you going to accept it is what it is assuming the investigation reveals such..

Matt Westerhold

Thanks Giver. The Register will report the information provided by public officials, if, and when, they provide information, and will report the family's reaction to it and any discrepancies and questions surrounding the findings. 

Truth or Dare

Hey Giver; Welcome to blog land. You new, or just a new name?

You know what's clearer than the sky is blue, on a sunny day, when the Sun is shining? Those within LE, governmental and judicial positions that follow a pattern, to do what they must to cover their own arses and their dereliction of duty to the public they've taken an oath to SERVE AND PROTECT, to judge a matter impartially, no bias, no prejudice! That's clearly not been done here from the beginning, and is just a sign of the lengths they will go to preserve their political and judicial careers, their reputation!

When I said I had no skin in this I misspoke, as we all do! Even here in Erie County. Don't know about you, but it certainly doesn't sit well with me knowing that should anything questionable happen to me or a loved one of mine, we'll be sent to the Lucas County Coroner's office for a determination on the cause of death! How many would/could this affect? I'm not sure, because I'm not quite sure how many other counties would have to do the same? Maybe Mr. Westerhold could answer that question?

It wouldn't be the first time, nor the last that such individuals will continue their denial of the facts, that being the mishandling of this case from the moment they entered the home Jacob died in, and now going all the way to Columbus. It should shake all Ohioans to their core.

Foz426

Giver, it is obvious you have NOT read all the facts, nor have you listened to the witnesses testimony in this case. There has been little to no 'reaching out' and instead a whole lotta covering up and avoidance.

This is a family who just wants peace. They are not looking for someone to 'pay' for what happened to Jacob; they just want to know the actual circumstances of his death, which, if forensic science is applied, was obviously NOT a suicide, 'accidental' or otherwise. SC LE could have easily put this to rest by acknowledging that they failed to do their jobs the night he died and every day since. Multiple pathologists and polygraph experts have drawn their own independent conclusions about the events of that night and SC seems to be content to ignore their findings.

Had those present that night just told the truth, none of this would be happening. Maybe Jacob's death was about saving some other family from experiencing what his family has endured? What people need to remember is this: If (God forbid) something like this happened to YOUR child, wouldn't you want to know the TRUTH and not some convoluted version of it? His family has been waiting over 19 months to get their answers so they can let him rest in peace... isn't it about time?

skydog44870

Interesting name "The Giver".
Maybe “The Narcissist” would suit you better.

Narcissistic personality disorder (NPD) is a personality disorder[1] in which the individual is described as being excessively preoccupied with issues of personal adequacy, power, prestige and vanity.

Symptoms of this disorder,
• Expects to be recognized as superior and special, without superior accomplishments
• Expects constant attention, admiration and positive reinforcement from others
• Envies others and believes others envy him/her
• Is preoccupied with thoughts and fantasies of great success, enormous attractiveness, power, intelligence
• Lacks the ability to empathize with the feelings or desires of others
• Is arrogant in attitudes and behavior
• Has expectations of special treatment that are unrealistic

Yep, That's it.