Repeal 'stand your ground'

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Jul 21, 2013

 

The “stand your ground” laws in Florida — the same template used for almost identical laws in Ohio and other states — resulted in the not guilty verdicts that many see as unjust in the trial of George Zimmerman. 

At its most basic level, Zimmerman armed himself and ignored police when he killed Trayvon Martin, who was walking home unarmed after buying a bag of Skittles and a soft drink at a neighborhood store. That’s what happened. Florida law — and Ohio law — make it legal to kill, but not right. 

These laws provide vague and codified terms to the intensely complicated act of killing and render almost any outcome in such cases — and potentially in less similar cases — the same as the verdicts that found Zimmerman not guilty on both manslaughter and murder charges July 13.

Ohio and 24 other states have “stand your ground” laws modeled after the same legislation Florida lawmakers used to enact its state law that provides a path to justifiable homicide with the weakest of circumstances. Trayvon was a teenager, who was walking home to his father’s house when he was killed. 

At its most intense center, these laws are derived from good, if fearful, intention, wrapped into the always difficult American system of courtroom justice. The national GOP successfully pushed the legislation inside state capitals across the country, but the outcome is not what these lawmakers likely intended. 

“Stand your ground” laws are emotionally opportunistic, destructive, and create situations to kill and glory in the killing. 

The president of the Sandusky chapter of the NAACP offered readers his reaction after Zimmerman verdicts were announced. 

“Try to imagine the situation reversed, if a black man shot a white teenager on his way home in his neighborhood,” Jim Jackson said. “There would be outrage among everyone. What it comes down to is the question: ‘Is racism dead in America?’ Obviously it’s not.”  

We’re hard-pressed to see any plausible argument to refute what Jackson, and others, have said. We hope the Sandusky branch of NAACP, other Ohio chapters, the national NAACP, the ACLU, residents and legislators unite for repeal, to remove these laws.

Comments

buttermaker

Stand your ground was not used by Zimmerman as a defense. He was found not guilty by reason of self defense, not on a stand your ground defense. Please try to get the facts straight, Reflector. And as for Jim Jackson crying foul over race and outrage, here's one for you, Jim. Where is the outrage, indeed. Try focusing on the real scourge and source of homicides in the black community, black on black crime.

http://www.westernjournalism.com...

The Big Dog's back

Get your facts straight. The JURY, you know, that group of 6 people who determine guilty or not guilty, used SYG in making their decision.

grumpy

Get YOUR facts straight and read what they said, not what you wanted them to say. They said Zimmerman's DEFENSE, you know the lawyers and those helping present Zimmerman's case didn't use SYG. Reading is fundamental, comprehension is sadly lacking for some.

buttermaker

The FACT is that Zimmerman and his defense team did not use SYG as a defense. This case was not about SYG, despite the judges' best efforts to make it that way. So, again, little pup, try to pay attention to what the adults are talking about or go back to your seat at the kids table.

http://www.cnn.com/2013/04/30/ju...

The Big Dog's back
grumpy

From piddle puppies link:

"Still, the degree to which Stand Your Ground led to the not-guilty verdict is unclear and in dispute. Cooper never asked B37."

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Unclear, in dispute, and never asked are not very persuasive when used to back your reasoning.

The Big Dog's back

He didn't have to ask moroon, she volunteered it.

The Big Dog's back

poohball, maybe you need reading glasses.

grumpy

What part of my quote from your article are you saying wasn't there? Unclear, in dispute, or never asked?

The article was the one YOU provided to prove your contention. It calls it into question, much more than proves what YOU claim.

Don't like it go to my previous post and read about your reading comprehension and maybe you will get a clue where you made your screw ups. Not that that is unusual for you, the screw ups, not the comprehension, which you seem to be sorely lacking in, per your posts.

The Big Dog's back

BY MARC CAPUTO
MCAPUTO@MIAMIHERALD.COM
Jurors discussed Florida’s controversial Stand Your Ground self-defense law before rendering their not-guilty verdict in George Zimmerman’s trial, one of the jurors told CNN’s Anderson Cooper.

1st paragraph in the story moroon.

grumpy

Juror B37 mentioned Stand Your Ground a second time of her own accord, saying the jury ultimately made its not-guilty verdict Saturday night based on the evidence and “because of the heat of the moment and the Stand Your Ground.”

Still, the degree to which Stand Your Ground led to the not-guilty verdict is unclear and in dispute. Cooper never asked B37.

Stand Your Ground allows a law-abiding citizen to “meet force with force, including deadly force” if he reasonably feels threatened in a confrontation. The NRA-drafted law, passed by the Florida Legislature in 2005, made two major changes to homicide cases:

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3rd 4th and 5th paragraphs. and below the 4th paragraph again...

'Still, the degree to which Stand Your Ground led to the not-guilty verdict is unclear and in dispute. Cooper never asked B37.'

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again unclear, in dispute, and unasked. No one except the jury knows how much, or how little they took SYG into consideration, or if they knew the content of the law. No one asked. You are guessing what you want them to have done. In other words you are guessing.

That has to do with reading comprehension. unclear, in dispute, and unasked. Not what you want to read when you are citing something to back your claims... but what we have from you as proof... unclear, in dispute, and never asked. Clear as mud.

The Big Dog's back

poohball, not a big deal getting glasses. Lots of people wear them.

grumpy

Here is a link to the jury instructions. Nowhere does it mention nor imply that the jury should consider SYG.

http://www.abcactionnews.com/dpp...

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IF the jury considered SYG it was done on their own, it was not mentioned in their presence in the court room, nor in the judges instructions. In fact the judge told them not to consider things outside of her instructions. She gave them the laws to consider and not to let anything else influence their deliberations.

The Big Dog's back

What's your point pooh? I said the jury used SYG to reach a verdict. I never said anything about the Judge or defense instructing them to. I understand you need someone to tell you every move to make, but this jury did this on their own.

grumpy

unclear, in dispute, and unasked.

eriemom

Actually, I think that the judge did send the SYG document in with the jury.

grumpy

Proof? Or is "think" enough for you to believe someone else's thinking different?

The Big Dog's back

pooh, you lost this one. Give it up and move on.

grumpy

SYG was not mentioned in either the court proceedings nor the judges instructions tp the jury, just as I said.

The Big Dog's back

Stick a fork in it pooh, you're done.

grumpy

Poor piddle puppy. got his nose rubbed in ---- yet again.

goofus

How can there be any racism in the U.S. The Great White Guilt got Obozo elected the first time and our sense of fairness in that people deserve a second chance got him elected a second time.Could Obozo's opining about this subject be a drive to reinvigorate the Great White Guilt before the 2014 midterms because the GOP is poised to take over the senate. The weasel in the white house does nothing but campaign!

The Big Dog's back

Try looking in the mirror and ask yourself that question.

West

Please, lets all remember that "it takes a village to raise a child." And, we as adults, lead by example.

West

@Sam, you just keep running your mouth....you think you have all the answers to everything. Well, just remember every dog has his day coming!

registerer

To the editors of the SR and all other media outlets. PLEASE show us an updated photo of this kid! Using one that is 3-4 years old is only self serving to those who would like to promote further rift.

The Big Dog's back

Would a photo of him lying dead please you?

BULLISDEEP's picture
BULLISDEEP

Now that you keep bringing it up,
where are the photos ?

2cents's picture
2cents
The Good Doctor

At the time Martin was shot, Martin was supposed to have been on top of Zimmerman. If Martin was on top, please explain why Martin's blood was not found on Zimmerman.

grumpy

Read the trial transcripts. It was explained there. You would make an excellent investigator... except for being a couple weeks late in coming up with questions.

The Big Dog's back

Bullspit. Making up stories again pooh?

grumpy

Are you now claiming it wasn't mentioned in the trial? Really? You cracked the Case!!!! bring back the jury they got it wrong!!!!! The Good Doctor and piddle puppy proved Zimmerman guilty!!!!! Oops just kidding.

The Good Doctor

The trial transcripts do NOT support your position.

grumpy

link?

eriemom

We all have the right to defend ourselves even without SYG laws. Stand Your Ground gives Napoleon men the courage to put themselves in a situation where they can use SYG as justification.

looking around

erie mom where is the like button!

Tool Box

And DOJ just reported that there is no evidence suggesting that Mr. Zimmerman used race in determining any of his activities that night or in his past. Now the DOJ has to figure out how to step out of the pile of crap that they stepped into.

Tool Box
grumpy

Survey on the case. All questions used have cited, and linked to, their sources.

http://www.dlas.org/questions-zi...

The Big Dog's back

That's all you have to do all day is to find stupid blogs like that?

grumpy

are you applying to be my secretary?

looking around

Interesting links, however for all those who may say that the adolescent ramblings on social networks and text messages should some how justify a death sentence at the hand of an untrained neighborhood watch participant should look into their own children's facebook page and text messages. I'm sure many are already aware of disciplinary problems at school etc. Listen to the lyrics of the music they like to listen to....ohhh I know you will say in my day the parents didn't like rock and roll either but I will tell you straight up the music if you can call it that is vastly different today. Don't let your child be labeled a thug for immature posts and actions, be a parent and help give them the guidance they need not to fall into the same type of scenario Trayvone and Zimmerman fell into.

WhatTheHeck

You'll be singin another tune when your head is being pounded into the pavement

WhatTheHeck

What it comes down to is that there was no racism involved. Rediculousism is what going on. The NAACP wants tp promote raceism. Keeps them in the popular opinion of people of color. It is just plain reverse raceism,,,,they hate whites. True story!

themomx6

l

plainolamerican

“Stand your ground” laws are emotionally opportunistic, destructive, and create situations to kill and glory in the killing.
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Only a liberal would make this statement and believe it.

Criminals must know that honest people can and will defend themselves with deadly force. We don't know who started the assault so the winner goes free.

Those who are trying to turn this into a racial case are racists.

BRIARS BYWATER

Martin was a thug. If he hadn't been suspended from school for having dope at school, none of this would have happened. He would have been in school where he belonged. Zimmerman wouldn't have had contact with him at all that day, because Martin wouldn't have been going to the store in the first place. Martin wouldn't have attacked him, and been killed. Instead of this being a wake up for the thugs and parents of the thugs; we "white folks" get the race card thrown at us once again by Rev. Al Sharpton and Jessie Jackson. But why didn't we hear from them when the young white couple from Tennessee was brutally murdered by rape and castration by 5 blacks, including a black female? Why weren't they speaking out against those 5 black animals who did these horrible things to this young couple? What about the young 20 year old white waitress who was killed on her way home from work by 3 black men who robbed her for her tip money? Where were they then? They hate us, always will. Did we make them go on welfare after having babies at barely teenagers? Did we force them into gangs to victimize outsiders and extort those inside their neighborhoods? Did we pull the triggers on the guns they use to kill? If they don't like it here, why don't we all pitch in "again" to help the less fortunate. Let's hire all the major cruise lines to charter runs back and forth from the U.S. to Africa. Maybe we should repeal slavery instead? Lets put them all back in the fields, and give John Deere a rest. I'd say burn their churches and schools, but they already do a good job of that on their own. Yeah! I'm sick of the race card being played everytime the black folks don't get the verdict they want. Zimmerman was arrested, threatened, tried, aquitted, and still threatened for his life, and now the Feds want to bring up civil rights charges against him. What about those white people I just told you about? Why didn't the Feds bring up civil right's charges against those animals that brutally killed them? I'll tell you why...because we have a race dividing administration at the Federal level, over-stepping the verdict of a lower court appointed jury of his peers. "They didn't get the verdict they wanted either". But you people who think Zimmerman didn't have a right to defend himself with deadly force; better wake up! This case shouldn't have even been heard in a court of law. The Stand Your Ground Laws we have enacted throughout this country are there to protect all of us from what happened to George Zimmerman. He was beaten, it was proven, and he defended himself just as I would, and thousands of others throughout this nation. I never considered myself to be racists. I wasn't raised that way. But, I'm getting real tired of being blamed for every Adam Lanza, and Jared Loughner that falls through the cracks of a non-existent mental health program. And for every Travon Martin thug, that attacks someone. Some of you think he's just some teenager acting out. Well, there seems to be a lot of angry teenagers acting out these days without any empathy for human life. You want the violence to stop? It's starts at home...with the family. Families don't eat together, pray together, or talk together about what is going on in each other's lives. We allowed prayer to be taken out of the schools, and now we suffer some of the consequences with a breakdown in society as a whole for it. Go ahead and laugh! Parents refuse to let school administrators administer corporal punishment, and tell them to leave our kids alone. So they did. And everytime little Johnny gets in trouble at school, parents defend the actions of their little angels. So what lesson was learned? Only that little Johnny learned how to beat the system. And he'll do it the rest of his life, and so will his little Johnnys, and so on, and so on... Alright, I'm done venting.

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