Students should be allowed to pray in school without bullying

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May 21, 2014

I am concerned about the depreciating amount of acceptance of prayer in schools.

Not being able to pray at school is a growing problem among many middle school and high school students. It is appalling that these students’ rights are being taken away solely on the fact that not every single person in the world believes in God. Even if the students are allowed to pray most of them don’t due to bullies. The world is cruel and even crueler for teenagers with religious beliefs.

The majority of people in the U.S. are religious. In fact, 80 percent of teens in the U.S. pray on a regular basis. Based on this one fact alone, you would think that it is common sense that students would be permitted to pray. However, this is not the case.

Just because one kid in a gym class enjoys basketball and another likes to play kickball doesn’t mean that the one who prefers basketball bullies the other because of their small difference.

The same thing goes for religions; just because one child believes in God and the other does not the one who does shouldn’t get picked on for it.

Unfortunately, this isn’t how things are in today’s society. This, however, is only part of the problem. It is bad enough that fellow students discriminate against the students who pray, but adults are as well. Teachers and principals are not allowing students to pray due to complaints made by other students.

They say that it is offending other students. No, that is not the problem and if it is then there needs to be many other things banned than just simply harmless praying. Besides, there are a multitude of things that students do that offend other people but get praised for being themselves and standing out of the crowd. This is not right at all. I agree that students should not force others to pray along with them, but if they are just praying to themselves there is nothing being done wrong. As I said earlier, there are many problems such as bullying that people need to be paying attention to.

—Mariah Skaggs
Berlin Heights

Today’s letters were submitted by area high school students

Comments

thinkagain's picture
thinkagain

”… students should not force others to pray along with them…

Exactly how does ANY student FORCE another to pray along with them?

I keep hearing how Christians are FORCING Jesus down people’s throats.

SamAdams
Tue, 05/20/2014 - 9:17am
“…you persist in shoving the "answers" down their throats…”

Licorice Schtick
Mon, 05/19/2014 - 3:48pm
“…ram them down the throat of others...”

Informed
Mon, 05/19/2014 - 4:50pm
“…shoved down everyone's throat...”

coasterfan
Wed, 05/21/2014 - 1:05pm
“Crammed down our throats…”

Do we hold a pistol to their head threatening to kill them if they don’t swallow Jesus? Really guys, don’t ya think you’re being a tad melodramatic? Hyperbolism is the last vestige of the irrational.

WeThePeople1965

Telling people that they are wrong for their differing opinion, and then proceeding to tell them what they do wrong in their life (as if you really know them) like a righteous saint (as if you have nothing better to do), well, explains why they think you're trying to shove it down their throat.

thinkagain's picture
thinkagain

Here’s a novel idea, if you're so bound and determined to end up in the fiery pit, just skip the comment when you see the user name thinkagain.

Stop It

The fire and brimstone approach, yet again.

WeThePeople1965

Oh yes, the scare-manipulation.

WeThePeople1965

.

WeThePeople1965

Why? Because I give a rational argument?

From the Grave

Hi~my name is God. I've created you in My image. I've given you FREE WILL, the same as I have. But if you don't live exactly as I want you to, I will send you to the fiery depths of HELL to live in eternity with the Devil(whom I have no apparent control over, even though I am all powerful). Did I mention that I am a loving god? Good luck!

thinkagain's picture
thinkagain

" Shall the thing formed say to Him that formed it, why hast thou made me thus? Hath not the potter power over the clay, of the same lump to make one vessel unto honor, and another unto dishonor?"

God .. is .. God. He may not be the God that you want, but I hardly think he cares one iota what you think.

You want a God that will always make you happy, spreading love, rainbows and unicorns throughout the land, without asking anything in return. Brother, do you ever have a rude awakening a comin’.

Whoever told you “God is only Love” was probably smoking some really good ganja.

GOD IS HOLY! And our sin has separated us from Him.

Yes Indeed, the Father expects righteousness and holiness, but we all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God.

The answer is Jesus Christ. HE is the fulfillment of God's holiness and love. God, in the form of Jesus, came to us and offered Himself as propitiation for our sins. Jesus hung on the cross because He loves us. He gives those who accept His sacrifice, victory over sin and death.

Jesus said IF we deny Him, then HE will deny us before the Father.

That's why Jesus is the key, and life's supreme question becomes, what will you do with Christ?

WeThePeople1965

If they know you're going to be 'saved' then why put them through life if they know what's going to happen. God should have destroyed earth before disease, murder, rape, etc. started happening. God so loved the world that he gave his only begotten son-- so unless murder, rape, disease, etc. are 'love,' he had the power to stop it from the very beginning, and to destroy satan millions of years before certain chimpanzees and Neanderthals evolutionized into humans.

From the Grave

thinkagain, you make God sound like an abusive parent. I'll pass on your God. You're not helping spread the word by being so angry~that just pushes people more and more toward the devil.

thinkagain's picture
thinkagain

You've chosen the wide path like many others.

From the Grave

Are you absolutely sure that you haven't also? Would Jesus spend time on a website criticizing and chastising people with different view than his, or would he try to spread the word of God in a positive and loving way?

jazzbo

Good point , From the Grave.

thinkagain's picture
thinkagain

Yes sir, Jesus is tickled pink that his message of sin and salvation is being spread whenever, wherever.

Now I’ll ask you a question. Would your lord Satan spend his time on a website criticizing the Word of God? Don’t bother answering, we all see he does, every time a Christian comments.

If you can’t handle hearing the truth from me, read the Bible for yourself. Nothing that I’ve said isn’t in there.

From the Grave

The Lord works in mysterious ways. She Moves In Mysterious Ways too.

WeThePeople1965

I don't know how one could call satan their lord if they don't believe in one? If one doesn't believe any concept of the bible, then using it isn't proving anything to them. I would be more likely to believe a Jew.

Nemesis

So, From the Grave, your basic thesis is that God has no right not to meet YOUR expectations? That's awfully presumptious of you, don't you think?

God's world, God's rules. We weren't consulted on them, nor do we have any right to expect that we would be.

themomx6

WeThePeople1965
Wed, 05/21/2014 - 1:20pm

Telling people that they are wrong for their differing opinion, and then proceeding to tell them what they do wrong in their life (as if you really know them) like a righteous saint (as if you have nothing better to do), well, explains why they think you're trying to shove it down their throat.

^^^ Sounds exactly like the homosexual agenda!! :)

WeThePeople1965

There may be some like that, but remember, most don't shame and shun others for differing opinions.

Nemesis

Actually, most supporters of that cause do so regularly.

Nemesis

"Telling people that they are wrong for their differing opinion, and then proceeding to tell them what they do wrong in their life (as if you really know them) like a righteous saint (as if you have nothing better to do), well, explains why they think you're trying to shove it down their throat."

Really? Who on this forum has not told anyone their differing opinion is wrong? You can't express an opinion without implicitly telling those who differ they are wrong. That is the very nature of rational discourse. Why is this one category of disagreement to be characterized as coersive?

Every day, people here express statist, socialist, fascist ideas - I don't see you accusing them of shoving anything down anyone's throats - again, why is this one message characterized as coersive?

WeThePeople1965

Persuading them with the thought of Hades, and saying that a book implies that they are incorrect, is saying they are incorrect. There's no two ways of looking at it.

Statist, socialist, fascist ideators don't reference Hitler, Karl Marx or Joseph Stalin-- clearly illogical people-- for their argument because obviously they are illogical and caused more harm than good. Statist, socialist, fascist ideas don't come from a book written thousands of years ago.

Nemesis

"Persuading them with the thought of Hades, and saying that a book implies that they are incorrect, is saying they are incorrect."

Never said it wasn't. I said people tell other people they are incorrect all the time. Get over it. If you can't stand being told you're wrong, you probably shouldn't be allowed out of an institution without medical supervision.

"Statist, socialist, fascist ideators don't reference Hitler, Karl Marx or Joseph Stalin"

Actually, they paraphrase them all the time without knowing it. They also reference Mao, Woodrow Wilson, Lincoln, and others who held equally statist points of view.

"Statist, socialist, fascist ideas don't come from a book written thousands of years ago."

But they do. Ever hear of a guy named Plato?

WeThePeople1965

"Never said it wasn't. I said people tell other people they are incorrect all the time. Get over it. If you can't stand being told you're wrong, you probably shouldn't be allowed out of an institution without medical supervision."

I didn't make this a discussion over how often people disprove others opinions. I'm confident in my beliefs.

"Actually, they paraphrase them all the time without knowing it."

That doesn't make them socialist of fascist. Socialism and fascism has nothing to do with this discussion.

"But they do. Ever hear of a guy named Plato?"

Socialism has its' origins in the French Revolution. Fascism ideology came from the 1880s. This discussion is not about either.

Nemesis

"I didn't make this a discussion over how often people disprove others opinions. I'm confident in my beliefs."

Look around - this comment thread is primarily about people whose confidence is not as strong as yours and their offense at hearing competing beliefs or being told their own are wrong.

"That doesn't make them socialist of fascist. Socialism and fascism has nothing to do with this discussion."

It has everything to do with public schools.

"Socialism has its' origins in the French Revolution. Fascism ideology came from the 1880s. This discussion is not about either."

A rose, by any other name, would smell as sweet. Nothing is new, just the labels change. Both socialism and fascism are as old as history. Since we're talking about Christianity (among other things) in this thread, the early church consisted largely of socialist communes.

WeThePeople1965

Who are you to say I'm not confident? Public schools have nothing to do with this discussion either. If it happens to be, then in that case, kids should be taught all theories, and decide for themselves.

And okay then, I guess I should challenge socialists, because I have to cover all my bases if I'm going to argue about one thing.

Nemesis

I never said ANYTHING about you not being confident. You might try to read the words on the screen in front of you and not making up your own version.

Yes, ONE way to be consistent would be to challenge EVERY opinion, socialist, or otherwise, that people offer. OR you could take the far easier and enlightened route and just get over the idea of hearing differing opinions, religious or otherwise, and accept that everyone has the same right to disagree that you do. Just realize that being told you're going to hell is no different than being told you're being exploited by the 1% or being told that the music you like isn't cool, or that you're cheering for the wrong baseball team.

ContraryAnn

JESUS!!! Jesus said, as reported in Matthew 6, "5When you pray, you are not to be like the hypocrites; for they love to stand and pray in the synagogues and on the street corners so that they may be seen by men.
"Truly I say to you, they have their reward in full.
6 But you, when you pray, go into your inner room, close your door and pray to your Father who is in secret, and your Father who sees what is done in secret will reward you."

PRAY IN PRIVATE, and no one will know you are praying so as to bully you.

ContraryAnn

yes, think again.
JESUS!!! Jesus said, as reported in Matthew 6, "5When you pray, you are not to be like the hypocrites; for they love to stand and pray in the synagogues and on the street corners so that they may be seen by men.
"Truly I say to you, they have their reward in full.
6 But you, when you pray, go into your inner room, close your door and pray to your Father who is in secret, and your Father who sees what is done in secret will reward you."

PRAY IN PRIVATE, and no one will know you are praying so as to bully you.
Otherwise they might feel you are bullying them by 'standing on the street corner' to show your holiness.

dorothy gale

Exactly! Notice how the cherry-pickers like thinkagain don't have a reply to your post? They pick and choose verses from their fairy tale book which illustrate the point they are trying to make, or which justify whatever hatred or bigotry they are perpetrating at the moment. But when you use their own book to contradict them, no response, or worse yet, they try to "explain" why the verse doesn't really mean what it says.

ContraryAnn

thinkagain.
If I stand in your presence and read from the Communist Manifesto, would that be offensive? Would you call me out on it?

Nemesis

Probably not, since thinkagain has posted comments supportive of some of its tenets.

holysee

When speaking with god, she tells me that she does not want in-school prayers.

coasterfan

As a closet atheist, I can say that religion is definitely shoved in our face 24/7. Across the nation, religious groups and their co-opted political leaders are pushing to have the Creation Story taught in schools, along with Evolution, yet they would certainly gripe if we asked to bring Science into a discussion within their church walls. Every 3rd Facebook post is religious-based, and there are certainly no shortage of people like ThinkAgain, who bring religion into every discussion. Since the Republican Party found Jesus about 20 years ago, religion is now dragged into political discussions, as well.

Crammed down our throats, shoved in our face, call it what you want, but it's a constant thing.

Thinkagain's last comment is most telling, since there actually ARE places in the world where you WILL be killed if you reject religion. Christianity has its own sordid past, the Spanish Inquisition, in which untold millions were killed simply by denying a belief in Christ. No hyperbole there.

thinkagain's picture
thinkagain

So you admit you swallowed, and I didn’t even have to pinch your nose...

“Crammed down our throats, shoved in our face, call it what you want, but it's a constant thing.”

You must be talking about the homosexual agenda!

Who is ThinkAgain?

WeThePeople1965

'Homosexual agenda' Oh! A conspiracy theorist!

Nemesis

WOW, Coasterfan, that's a fun game - can anyone play?

As a closet* Christian, I can say that atheist pansexual humanism is definitely shoved in our face 24/7. Across the nation, leftist victim identity and other such groups and their co-opted political leaders are pushing to have the repressiveness of traditional morality, the importance of redistribution of wealth, and an expansive, paternalist role for government taught in schools, along with trying to politicize even math curricula, yet they would certainly gripe if we asked to bring Abstinence or the right of freedom of association into a discussion within their state school walls. Every 3rd Facebook post is about Obama, hooking up, or degenerate pop culture, and there are certainly no shortage of people like Coasterfan, who bring their hatred of religion into every discussion. Since the Democratic Party discovered that ignorant, childish voters will vote for anything that increases their access to sexual gratification about 20 years ago, it's now dragged into political discussions, as well.

Crammed down our throats, shoved in our face, call it what you want, but it's a constant thing.

Coasterfan's last comment is most telling, since there actually ARE places in the world where you WILL be killed if you embrace religion. Atheism has its own sordid past, Stalin, Mao, Pol Pot, by whom untold millions were killed simply by denying atheist communism. No hyperbole there.**

* Actually not really closeted, but then how closeted is Coasterfan about his atheism, since he's declared it here many times?

** On the subject of hyperbole, Coasterfan's grasp of history is poor. Records of the Spanish Inquisition recount 1303 executions, and the estimates of even the most critical historians are less than 6,000, not "untold millions" and they were not killed for denying belief, but quite often for for holding heretical doctrines as believers. By contrast, atheist regimes are documented as being responsible for many millions of deaths.

WeThePeople1965

.

WeThePeople1965

CoasterFan may also be closeted because his/her family would shun him/her.

Nemesis

Wow, when you miss a point, you REALLY miss it.

WeThePeople1965

I wasn't speaking in regards to what you wrote, I was speaking about the clear misunderstanding about what a 'closeted' individual is. Coasterfan isn't closeted here, he/she is closeted to others.

Nemesis

I fully understand the meaning, and that meaning is relative and flexible. Coaster's commenting history are strongly indicative that he doesn't fit any definition.

WeThePeople1965

And god couldn't stop all that madness from happening.

KindofKick

Whoa hold on! No doubt Stalin, Mao, & Pol Pot were terrible people. But, they did not do these terrible things in the name of atheism. There are many examples of wars and tragedies that were precisely in the name of religion.

Hollie Newton

You are allowed to pray all you want to in school. You can sit quietly at your desk and pray all day long. Nobody will even know. 

 

AJ Oliver

So is it OK if kids pray to the Church of the Sub-Genius too?

"Bob" is SLACK.
And SLACK is what you want. SLACK is what you need. As the Pope of
All New York[4] told the multitudes,
"With the FULLNESS of Slack a CHANGE will come;
Slackness will ENTER your life, Slackness will MAKE YOU SEE,
Slackness will SET YOU FREE!
Slackness IS! Slackness LIVES,
Slackness WAITS FOR YOU and YEAH! send $20."
Slack is what was taken away; Slack is what "Bob" gives BACK.

AJ Oliver

Hey Ms. Skaggs, sorry if my post above seemed snippy or disrespectful. It was not meant as such. But the question is a serious one: Are non-christian prayers OK too?

Nemesis

"Hey Ms. Skaggs, sorry if my post above seemed snippy or disrespectful. It was not meant as such. But the question is a serious one: Are non-christian prayers OK too?"

Can you point out anything she said that indicates they aren't, or are you just making a baseless assumption to grind your axe?

Stop It

Nothing stops those with a mat facing east 5 times a day. Who cares what anyone prays for?

Just don't tell me I have to, to be saved.

thinkagain's picture
thinkagain

You have to, to be saved.

Stop It

Says you and some fictional book written by men claiming to be the hand of god.

themomx6

1 Corinthians 2:14

New King James Version (NKJV)

14 But the natural man does not receive the things of the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him; nor can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.

WeThePeople1965

Yeah, that explains a lot.

Nemesis

"Just don't tell me I have to, to be saved."

The same Amendment that you're celebrating there gives people the right to tell you anything they want. If you can't respect the First Amendment rights of others, then yours are not deserving of any respect.

WeThePeople1965

Yes, First Amendment, the thing they turn to when they have nothing to say. Thank you to the veterans who gave me that right.

Nemesis

So, free speech is only good when it's speech you like to hear?

WeThePeople1965

No.

Stop It

Tell me something, thinkagain? Why was the bible stopped be added to? Should not scripture and righteousness not be a continuing story? Something more contemporary would do a lot for the cause, or so one would think? Are there no "current hands of god" to continue the saga of good and evil?

Fables and fairy-tales do not a believer make.

thinkagain's picture
thinkagain

Jude 3 “I found it necessary to write to you exhorting you to contend earnestly for the faith which was once for all delivered to the saints.”

This "delivery of the faith" (God speaking through the New Testament writers) happened once and then was complete.

Many have claimed through the centuries of having further revelations. Mohammed, Joseph Smith, Sun Yung Moon and others. Even "mainstream" Christian religious leaders change the doctrines of their particular faith.

They have no such right because "the faith" has already been determined once for all by Jesus Himself.

1 Peter 1:25 “But the word of the Lord endureth for ever. And this is the word which by the gospel is preached unto you.”

However…God has not stopped revealing Himself.

God is still speaking today, by His Spirit and through His written word, the Bible. Are you listening?

There is the thinnest of veils between this world and the truth that awaits. He stands at the door of your heart, waiting. Ask Him to come in now (pray).

WeThePeople1965

So who says the writers weren't psychologically incompetent? Psychological advances didn't happen until the 1800s. They still don't have it entirely discovered.

Stop It

The freakin' books of the new testament were written hundreds of years after christ died, for god's sake, man. Your logic or lack thereof holds no water.

Edit to add: Paul was the one and only reason...he tried the damnation tactic. He f%$ked up when he did that. More fire and brimstone and shame for those who sin. Who doesn't sin?

themomx6

np

thinkagain's picture
thinkagain

Why all the anger? Mommy catch you being naughty again and yelled Stop It?

Stop It
Fri, 12/27/2013 - 5:05am
“The gov't stole my home and my job. I’m old, unemployed and living with my mom."

You simply hate anyone who many times has demonstrated faith in God. A God you blame for all your problems.

WeThePeople1965

Who are you to say who he blames? Who are you to act like you know this guy? For crying out loud, stop condescending him because he doesn't follow your beliefs. If your faith was as strong as you portray it, you wouldn't feel the need to go all the way back to 12/27/13 to find a post that gives a small shadow of a long life. Jesus taught the golden rule. As a matter of fact, you attacked him after he stated a known, verifiable fact.

fiddledee

This is an excellent letter from a High School student. Her logic has no fault. Just because you don'l like my preferences doesn't I should be bullied because of it. It seems that every other religion gets a free pass to observe any way they see fit and those living Christianity are getting bullied. Great job, Ms. Skaggs. Your parents should be proud!

SamAdams

hollienewton is right. I'd add one more thing, though: Schools shouldn't have an issue with after-hours religious "clubs," either. Schools provide public meeting facilities for all sorts of groups, and it seems that refusing someone on religious grounds is awfully discriminatory...

I understand and support the notion that kids shouldn't be passing out religious tracts or preaching outside restrooms between classes. Kids are effectively captive during school hours, and that WOULD constitute force! But reading a Bible at lunch, praying silently after you've finished (or, in most cases, before you've started!) a test, and the like should not be banned or even discouraged.

As an aside, anybody want to place any bets as to what happens when students who happen to be devout Muslims want to take a break with their little prayer rugs? Somehow, I'm guessing THAT would be different!

ladydye_5

I agree, a before school or after school group of students is fine. Reading your bible in study hall is fine. Praying before you eat your lunch, fine. Being told you need to pray before a football game, not so much. Schools handing out prayer pamphlets, again, not so much.

There is a difference between a student lead bible study in a non-school endorsed group. And school endorsed functions. The question posed by the writer did not mention which was being asked.

The Big Dog's back

Praying was never taken out of schools. Forced praying was.

holysee

Praying causes the gay

observer

StopIt wrote:
The freakin' books of the new testament were written hundreds of years after christ died...."

The apostle Paul wrote most of the New Testament. He was born 10 B.C., He died in 64 A.D.
John, Jesus' disciple, wrote the books of John, 1,2,3 John and Revelation. John was WITH Christ. Do you think he lived for hundreds of years? Matthew, Mark, and Luke were all written before A.D. 70. Paul wrote Romans, 1 & 2 Corinthians, Galatians, Ephesians, Philippians, Colossians, 1 & 2 Thessalonians, 1 & 2 Timothy, Titus, Philemon before his death in 64 A.D. The epistle of James, the brother of Christ was written before his death in 61 A.D. You've proven you have no clue as to Scripture.

jazzbo

1. "There are scholars who believe the Gospel of Matthew was written as early as ten to twelve years after the death of Christ."

Read more:
http://www.gotquestions.org/when...

2. Wasn't the New Testament written hundreds of years after Christ ?
Read more:
http://carm.org/wasnt-new-testam...

WeThePeople1965

However, the new testament book of revelations has been described in different contexts, Christians see it as prophecy. There are historical interpretations, prophetic interpretations, and the interpretations that the book was written as symbolism of the path of good and evil. The Jews don't use the new testament. Their Tanakh has much different translations from any variation of the christian bible. Some- if not most- christians believe that the new testament signified a new, exclusive covenant between christians and god, and that the Jewish-god covenant became no longer.

Christians also have a long history of violence. In America, you never hear the term Christian extremism used, because it's merely socially unacceptable.

jazzbo

..... and Islam is a peaceful religion.

WeThePeople1965

.... And I don't believe in Islam, either.

jazzbo

so ?

WeThePeople1965

There ya go.

Nemesis

"Their Tanakh has much different translations from any variation of the christian bible."

That's not true. I have studied the Old Testament under an orthodox rabbi where I was the only gentile in the room. I still have the text - Hebrew on the right hand pages with corresponding English on the left. It closely matches the KJV, except that the chapter and verse numbering is different.

"Some- if not most- christians believe that the new testament signified a new, exclusive covenant between christians and god, and that the Jewish-god covenant became no longer."

No, they hold that the THREE covenants served different purposes. The Noadic Covenant bound all mankind and is purely moral. The Mosaic Covenant is a collective one to which people were bound by lineage, and the Christian Covenant is between God and each individual by individual choice.

"Christians also have a long history of violence. "

No more so than any other group of people, whether distinguished by their religion, ethnicity, philosophy, or political persuasion.

jazzbo

Hmm , interesting.

WeThePeople1965

And god couldn't have stopped all of the confusion.

In case you didn't notice...

Judaism says that no human can ever die for the sins of others; Christianity says that Jesus died for the sins of mankind. Judaism says that all humans are born pure, and innocent; Christianity says that all humans are born with 'original sin'. Judaism says that god would never allow/enable a 'virgin birth;' Christianity says that Mary gave birth, though a virgin. Judaism says that no man gets a 'second coming;' Christianity says that Jesus will have a 'second coming.' Judaism says that every human should speak directly to god; Christianity claims in the 'new testament' that the 'only way' to god is through Jesus. Judaism says god is one, indivisible, cannot be separated into three incarnations; some sects of Christianity speak of the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit. Judaism says that we are ALL equally god's children; Christianity says that Jesus was 'god's son' above all others. Judaism has no concept of 'hell;' *some* Christians say god will send non-believers to 'hell.' Judaism has no 'devil,’ the Jewish 'Satan' is just an ordinary angel, under god's control; Christianity describes 'Satan' as a devil and 'fallen' angel. Judaism says the 'messiah' will be a normal, mortal man who must fulfill all the Jewish messianic prophecies in one normal, mortal lifetime; Christianity says Jesus was the 'messiah' and will fulfill the prophecies when he 'returns.' Judaism says that the righteous of ALL faiths will reach the 'Garden of Eden;’ some Christians insist that only those who 'know christ' can reach heaven. Judaism forbids Jews from trying to convert anyone to Judaism; Christianity believes in actively 'witnessing' and encouraging people to convert to Christianity. Judaism has no concept of original sin; some sects of Christianity believe in “original sin” to justify the need for a savior; others believe that humankind cannot keep from sinning and requires a savior to cleanse them.

Small difference, eh?

Nemesis

About 90% of what you wrote is inaccurate.

WeThePeople1965

Prove it.

Nemesis

I haven't the time. Suffice it to say that I've studied both religions with internal authorities in each, and almost everything you've said is a misstatement of both their doctrines.

For instance, Judaism does not forbid conversions, it merely holds that God does not require it, and that because Judaism places a burden upon its adherants, why should anyone want it. If one wishes to convert, a rabbi would counsel them along the lines of "why would you want to take on this burden" and challenge their motives, but if they were found to be sincere, they would be converted.

WeThePeople1965

I said 'Judaism forbids Jews from trying to convert anyone to Judaism.' Meaning, Judaism forbids Jews from evangelizing to try to get people to convert.

If I'm wrong about that whole list, please, explain further. If you can't, then I can't be certain you're confident that you believe differently.

You can argue until you're blue in the face, but I'll always believe what I believe and you'll always believe what you believe.

Nemesis

Believe what you want. You grossly oversimplified the doctrines of both religions to the point of inaccuracy. It's not about what you believe, but rather about accurately stating what others believe, and to understand that accurately takes more than reading a magazine article or watching a PBS special. It calls for actually entering their community.

Jews are actually called to evangelize the Noadic covenant. Daniel is lauded in the Old Testament for evangelizing his faith to Nebucanezzar.

WeThePeople1965

.

dorothy gale

Anyone can pray to any god, any time of the day or night, no matter where they are. No one can stop you from doing that! Why is that so hard to grasp? Public schools can't endorse or require participation in any specific religion, but you can pray in your mind all day long if you want to and no one will ever know! Someone please explain to me how anyone, anywhere, can prevent you from doing that!

Licorice Schtick

Your right, of course; it's not possible. But every two years as electron time approaches, Republicans trot out old faux "issues" to try to energize pious Christians to vote republican by trying to fool them into thinking they're under attack. Fortunately, it mostly works only on the dim-witted among them.

MrsCowboy

It simply amazes me how the Christians feel threatened. Don't worry, we atheists will treat you much better than your history ever treated us. We were imprisoned, tortured, exiled, and murdered---all in the name of your god. Now that we have the right to our own nonbelief without fear of repercussion, you cry fowl. If we continued to live our lives according to your holy book of horrors, we would still be thinking the earth was flat. Children are allowed to pray in school all they want, as long as they don't infringe on the rights of other students. My children go to public school for a reason. They are there to learn facts and evidence, not nonsense and fairytales.

Nemesis

"It simply amazes me how the Christians feel threatened. Don't worry, we atheists will treat you much better than your history ever treated us. We were imprisoned, tortured, exiled, and murdered---all in the name of your god."

Not really. Many people have been persecuted for expressing belief in a different deity than the majority, or for a different doctrine on what that deity wants, but there really hasn't been any widespread historical persecution of atheists.

"My children go to public school for a reason. They are there to learn facts and evidence, not nonsense and fairytales."

They just learn a different religion there - statism.

WeThePeople1965

Statism is a belief in totalitarianism, not the act of telling scientific evidence. I'm 2.8% Neanderthal, by the way.

Nemesis

No, statism is a belief in the primacy of the state, a collectivist view that the individual serves the state rather than this nation's founding principle of the other way around. It's the worldview that is indoctrinated in the public schools.

WeThePeople1965

How so?

Nemesis

For starters, a grading system that is based not on actual knowledge learned, but on how well one does what one is told, when one is told, without asking why one is told. Constant indoctrination in a leftist, statist worldview, especially in the teaching of American and World History.

WeThePeople1965

That's delusional. How would you even know anyway?

Nemesis

Because I was subjected to it. Are you perhaps guilty of making assumptions for which you have no basis?

WeThePeople1965

When? 30 years ago?

Nemesis

When it was a whole lot LESS the case than it is now.

MBR

"It is bad enough that fellow students discriminate against the students who pray, but adults are as well. Teachers and principals are not allowing students to pray due to complaints made by other students."

Mariah, please cite your source(s) for this. Otherwise, it is a meaningless opinion.

Let me guess. Berlin Heights school had a project for students to write to local papers?

SamAdams

Unfortunately, there was a case that made the national news within the last few weeks when a little girl, who was reading her Bible at lunch, had it taken away from her by a teacher and was told it wasn't allowed.

Obviously, that caused quite a firestorm, especially among the religious. I fell squarely on the side of the Christians on this one because it was lunch, she wasn't evangelizing, wasn't disturbing anybody -- except, apparently, the teacher!

I understand completely the forced prayer issue as well as the notion of the government favoring any religion over any other. But to compensate for the rights of all, schools appear to have decided that nobody has ANY rights! This is right there with the PC Police, etc. We can only hope the pendulum will stop its dramatic arcs and settle where it belongs one day VERY soon...

MBR

Then the author should have addressed that lone incident. One anecdote does not equal data.

Nemesis

"Unfortunately, there was a case that made the national news within the last few weeks"

One of the problems in this country is that, while you have certain rights, rank and file government employees are among the most poorly educated regarding these rights, and when they all too frequently take action in violation of our rights, the only remedy is a complicated, time-consuming, and expensive (at least up front) lawsuit. What we need is a law that holds individual government employees criminally liable for violating peoples' constitutional rights. Throw a few people in jail and the rest will take the time to learn what they can and can't do.

Licorice Schtick

Sam just changed the subject in an attempt to defend the indefensible right.

ContraryAnn

"Hail Mary, Full of Grace", I have now offended my Southern Baptist cousins - and a lot of friends who attend community churches.

"Allah is Great!" Oops, now I've offended the Tea Party.

"Hail Lucifer!" Oops, now I've offended Christians.

God IS!!!

JESUS!!! Jesus said, as reported in Matthew 6, "5When you pray, you are not to be like the hypocrites; for they love to stand and pray in the synagogues and on the street corners so that they may be seen by men.
"Truly I say to you, they have their reward in full.
6 But you, when you pray, go into your inner room, close your door and pray to your Father who is in secret, and your Father who sees what is done in secret will reward you."

PRAY IN PRIVATE, and no one will know you are praying so as to bully you.

thinkagain's picture
thinkagain

You haven’t offended me.

But then, I’m not offended by the right to freedom of religion and freedom of expression.

So, by extrapolation, you believe the adherents of Islam, should not be granted special privileges to pray in public schools. Good to know for future reference.

Nemesis

""Allah is Great!" Oops, now I've offended the Tea Party."

Not in the slightest.

WeThePeople1965

"Allah is Great!" or something on that order was chanted while all four airliners were hijacked on 9/11-- the ATC radio operators have the interception recorded. I sure know it offends me.

Nemesis

And here you said you were too confident in your beliefs to allow such things to get under your skin.

I guarantee that sometime in history, someone has done something horrible while mouthing the crux of something you believe in. America's first domestic terrorist was motivated by his desire to end slavery, but that doesn't mean I'm going to denounce abolitionism.

WeThePeople1965

No, it offends me since the motive was to kill Americans.

Nemesis

That was the motive in the case I mentioned too.

But hey, I get it, logic is hard.

A Young Adult's...

Thinkagain and his/her bible-thumping buds are the problem with religion. They read their fairy tale and believe every one ought to believe the fairy tale. If you don't take him/her seriously, time is not wasted. It amazes me how many Christians are threatened by people of other belief systems. Can someone say insecurity?

Licorice Schtick

Much organized Christianity has been co-opted by politics. It's been contorted into something barely resembling the teachings of loving, tolerant and forgiving Christ, and is now largely a tool used to protect the interests of the oligarchs and keep us rabble in line. Their dupes try to force their pervert brand of pseudo-christianity on the rest of us, and when their victims resists, they wail that THEY are the victims. The school prayer issue is a great example; they falsely claim we are an officially Christian nation, and favor teachers leading entire classes in Christian prayer, and showy hypocritical public group prayer intended to shame others or pressure them to join in (gotta give Mariah credit for the novel approach of framing these bullies as victims of bullying, though) and when neither of those is allowed, they falsely claim they're not allowed to pray at all. How is that anything but a hypocritical lie?

fiddledee

So, so sad that the school has a problem with a kid praying in school but has no problem whatsoever assigning a book "Nineteen Minutes" with explicitly graphic pornographic writing in its pages. No one should be "forced" to pray. If a muslim wants to pray on their rug in front of me, I have no problem with it. It is their free expression even if I don't agree with it. Schools used to begin with prayer from different pastors in the morning over the PA system. I've never met anyone who claims that they were "scarred" from the terribly horrid torture. Exactly how much better is our society as a whole by removing God from almost anything and everything and making standing for one's beliefs criminal activity in far too many cases? I applaud this young lady for putting this out there and being willing to take a public stand with grace and compassion and tolerance.

Licorice Schtick

So you too think it's OK to inflict unwanted prayer on students, and to perpetuate the lie that students are not allowed to pray.

Dr. Information

God is good, and all the time. ...Godv is good. Pray quiet, pray in normal voice with friends. Ignore the bullies.

stayfit

"Under God" was not introduced into the pledge of allegiance until the 1950's and should have never been instituted. On bullying for prayer, considering 80 percent of the population believe in God, I am sure this is not the No. 1 reason someone is bullied.

Prayer should never interfere with the classroom setting. It is something that could be done before or after school or without engaging others.

What one refers to as evangelism, another may refer to as bible-beating.

The Bible says to pray directly to the Father, so why is there a need to pray in a look at me fashion? Truth is, there isn't.

On Bullying, it is wrong at any level, but this readers forum piece seems to be a desperate attempt to make a victim out of Christians, when 80 percent of the U.S. classifies as such.

Statistics show that the least trusted people in the U.S. are atheists. I am sure that atheists are bullied and discriminated against at a much higher rate.

KURTje

Some good arguments here. Forced praying taken out of school. Also a certain political stripe did use (for their selfish gain) the Christian vote. I liked what Ron Reagans son said about his dad: something like him going to church "for show." Who cares how one worships/doesn't? That by law is THIER choice and no one else.

Coljan

Yes in every circumstances that happen inside the school we should encourage our kids to talk to God. Nearly by talking to its a sort of a prayer, no matter what religious group the kids are in its all the same. We need not to bully or force them. If bullying had happen i suggestan application for that check out http://safekidzone.com/?a_aid=53..., this might help.

Stop It

Just a few religions on the planet earth...:

Bábísm
Bahá'í
Bahá'í Faith
Orthodox Bahá'í Faith
Islam
Kharijites
Nation of Islam
Shiite
Alawites
Ismailis
Jafari
Zaiddiyah
Ghulat including
Alevi / Bektashi
Ahl-e Haqq
Yazidi
Druze
Ahmadi
Sunni
Berailvi
Deobandi
Hanafi
Hanbali
Maliki
Mu'tazili
Shafi'i
Wahhabi
Sufism
Naqshbandi
Bektashi
Chishti
Mevlevi
Zikri
Judaism (see also: Jew; Hebrews)
Contemporary divisions
Karaite Judaism
Rabbinic Judaism
Orthodox Judaism
Haredi Judaism
Hassidic Judaism
Modern Orthodox Judaism
Reform Judaism
Conservative Judaism (Masorti)
Reconstructionist Judaism (arguably not a religion)
Humanistic Judaism (arguably not a religion)
Historical Sects
Hasmoneans
Essenes
Pharisees
Sadducees
Zealots
Sicarii
sects that believed Jesus was a prophet
Ebionites
Elkasites
Nazarenes
Crypto-Jews
Marranos
Conversos
Christianity (see List of Christian denominations)
Eastern Orthodoxy
Roman Catholicism
Oriental Orthodoxy (Monophysitism)
Nestorianism
Protestantism
Anabaptists
Anglicans
Baptists
Lutherans
Methodists
Pentecostals
Reformed
Calvinism
Presbyterian
Religious Society of Friends (Quakers)
Unitarians
Waldensians
Latter-day Saints
Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints
Community of Christ
Fundamentalist Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints
Seventh-day Adventist
Jehovah's Witnesses
Messianic Judaism (not actually Judaism but rather Jewish-rite Christianity)
Samaritans
Mandaeanists
Rastafarians
Black Hebrews
Hebrew Christians
[edit]
Dharmic religions
Religions with a concept of Dharma, also major religions of historical India

Hinduism (see also Contemporary Hindu movements)
Agama Hindu Dharma (Javanese Hinduism)
Shaivism
Shaktism
Smartism
Vaishnavism
Gaudiya Vaishnavism
ISKCON (Hare Krishna)
Sri Krishna Chaitanya Mission
Six major schools and movements of Hindu philosophy
Samkhya
Nyaya
Vaisheshika
Purva mimamsa
Vedanta (Uttar Mimamsa)
Advaita Vedanta
Integral Yoga
Yoga
Ashtanga Yoga
Hatha yoga
Siddha Yoga
Tantric Yoga
Ayyavazhi
Shramana Religions
Buddhism (see Schools of Buddhism)
Mahayana
Nikaya schools (which have historically been called Hinayana in the West)
Theravada
Vajrayana (Tantric Buddhism)
Jainism
Digambara
Shvetambara
Panth Religions
Sikhism
Kabir Panth
Dadu Panth
[edit]
Other revealed religions
Believers in one God, also called classical monotheism, who follow an Indo-European culture of belief, philosophy and angelology.

Zoroastrianism
Magus (see Three Wise Men)
Gnosticism
Basilidians
Bogomils
Borborites
Cainites
Carpocratians
Cathars
Marcionism (not entirely Gnostic)
Ophites
Valentinians (see Valentinius)
Hinduism (Vaishnavism)
[edit]
Indigenous religions
The orally transmitted canon of indigenous peoples, many involving some variant of animism and many defunct

African religions
Akamba mythology
Akan mythology
Ashanti mythology
Bushongo mythology
Bwiti
Dahomey mythology
Dinka mythology
Efik mythology
Egyptian mythology
Ibo mythology
Isoko mythology
Khoikhoi mythology
Lotuko mythology
Lugbara mythology
Pygmy mythology
Tumbuka mythology
Yoruba mythology
Zulu mythology
African religions in the New World
Kumina
Obeah
Santería (Lukumi)
Vodou
Candomblé
Macumba
Umbanda and Quimbanda
Xango
European religions
Anglo-Saxon mythology
Basque mythology
Druidry (Celtic Religion)
Finnish mythology
Germanic paganism
Norse mythology
Greek religion
Greek mythology
Mystery religions
Eleusinian Mysteries
Mithraism
Pythagoreanism
Roman religion
Roman mythology
Slavic mythology
Asian religions
Babylonian and Assyrian religion
Babylonian mythology
Chaldean mythology
Sumerian mythology
Bön (Indigenous Tibetan belief)
Chinese mythology
Shinto
Oomoto
Tengrism (Indigenous Mongol, Tartar & Kazakh belief)
Yezidis (Modified indigenous Kurdish belief)
Native American religions
Abenaki mythology
Aztec mythology
Blackfoot mythology
Chippewa mythology
Creek mythology
Crow mythology
Guarani mythology
Haida mythology
Ho-Chunk mythology
Huron mythology
Inuit mythology
Iroquois mythology
Kwakiutl mythology
Lakota mythology
Lenape mythology
Navaho mythology
Nootka mythology
Pawnee mythology
Salish mythology
Selk'nam religion
Seneca mythology
Tsimshian mythology
Ute mythology
Zuni mythology
Oceanic religions
Australian Aboriginal mythology
Balinese mythology
Maori mythology
Modekngei (Republic of Palau)
Nauruan indigenous religion
Polynesian mythology
[edit]
Neopagan or revival religions
Modern religions seeking to recreate indigenous, usually pre-Christian, beliefs and practices

Church of All Worlds
Dievturiba
Germanic Neopaganism also called Ásatrú or Odinism
Hellenic polytheism (modern revivalist forms)
Judeo-Paganism
Maausk
Neo-druidism
Summum
Taarausk
Wicca
Alexandrian Wicca
Dianic Wicca (Feminist Wicca)
Gardnerian Wicca
Faery Wicca
Feri Tradition
[edit]
Non-revealed religions
Philosophies not transmitted by a divine prophet

Carvaka
Confucianism
Deism
Fellowship of Reason
Spiritual Humanism
Mohism
Taoism
[edit]
Left-Hand Path religions
Faiths teaching that the ultimate goal is separating consciousness from the universe, rather than being absorbed by it

Dragon Rouge
Satanism
LaVeyan Satanism
Church of Satan
Order of Nine Angles
Setianism also spelled Sethianism
Temple of Set
The Storm
Quimbanda
[edit]
Syncretic religions
Faiths created from blending earlier religions or that consider all or some religions to be essentially the same

Arès Pilgrim Movement
Cao Dai
Falun Dafa (Falun Gong)
Huna
Konkokyo
Law of One
Manichaeism
Unitarian Universalism
Universal Life Church
Tenrikyo
Theosophy
Seicho-No-Ie
[edit]
Entheogen religions
Religions based around divinely inspiring substances

Ayahuasca-based beliefs
Church of the Universe (marijuana sacrament)
Peyotism
THC Ministry
[edit]
New religious movements
See List of new religious movements for a list based on other sources

See hereunder for religions founded since 1850 with small followings

Monotheistic NRMs

Direct Worship of the Actual God
Indigenous NRM's

Burkhanism
Cargo cults
Ghost Dance
Native American Church
African Diaspora / Latin American NRM's

Rastafari movement
Umbanda
Candomble
Kardecist Spiritism
Hindu-oriented NRM's

Sai Baba/Sathya Sai Organisation
Hare Krishna
Transcendental Meditation
Sant Mat
Swaminarayan
Vedanta Society
Osho/Rajneeshism
Meher Baba (actually a Zoroastrian)
Oneness University
Aum Shinrikyo (Aleph)
Eckankar
NRM's with Islamic Roots

Subud
Ahmadi
Dances of Universal Peace
Nation of Islam (Black Muslims)
Christian-oriented NRM's

Unification Church
Jesus People
Children of God
People's Temple
Pentecostalism
Holiness movement
Iglesia ni Cristo
Buddhist-oriented NRM's

Soka Gakkai
Won Buddhism
Hoa Hao
Friends of the Western Buddhist Order
Chinese-oriented NRM's

Way of Former Heaven sects, including
I-Kuan Tao ("Way of Unity"),
T'ung-shan She ("Society of Goodness"),
Tien-te Sheng-chiao ("Sacred Religion of Celestial Virtue"),
Daoyuan ("Sanctuary of the Tao"),
Tz'u-hui Tang ("Compassion Society").
Falun Gong ("Dharma Wheel Work," a qigong meditation group)
Japanese-oriented NRM's

Tenrikyo
Seicho no Ie
Johrei (Johrei Movement - Sekai Kyusei Kyo Izunome Kyodan)
Reiki
Oomoto
Soka Gakkai
Aum Shinrikyo (Aleph)
Korean-oriented NRM's

Chondogyo
Jeung San Do
Juche (The personality cult of North Korean leaders)
Unification Church
Vietnamese-oriented NRM's

Caodaism
Hoa Hao
Malaysian-Oriented NRM's

Sky Kingdom
Western Magical / Esoteric Groups

Kardecist Spiritism
Theosophy
Agni Yoga
Anthroposophy
Arcane School
Association for Research and Enlightenment
Church Universal and Triumphant
Golden Dawn
Gurdjieff Work
AMORC
Spiritualism
Eckankar
Thelema
Argenteum Astrum
Fraternitas Saturni
Ordo Templi Orientis
Typhonian Ordo Templi Orientis
Process Church of the Final Judgement
Order of the Solar Temple
White Supremacist Religions

Church of Jesus Christ Christian
World Church of the Creator (Creativity Movement)
Church of the American Knights of the Ku Klux Klan [1]
Black Supremacist Religions

Nuwaubianism
Alien-based religions

The Aetherius Society [2]
Raelism
Scientology
Church of Scientology
Free Zone
Urantia, Book of
Universe people
Other NRM's

Antoinism
Breatharianism (Air cult)
Brianism
Elan Vital
Faithists of Kosmon
Virus, The Church of
Tony Samara
[edit]
Parody or mock religions
Groups that poke fun at other religions or religion in general

Discordianism
Church of the SubGenius (The cult of Bob Dobbs)
Church of Jesus Christ Elvis
Fictional religions turned Parody
Bokononism
Jedi census movement
Flying Spaghetti Monster (Pastafarianism)
Invisible Pink Unicorn
Kibology
Landover Baptist Church
Church of Emacs
[edit]
Fictional religions
See List of fictional religions

[edit]
Forms of religion or alternative beliefs
Agnosticism
Animism
Atheism
Ditheism (Dualism)
Henotheism
Monolatrism
Humanism
Secular Humanism
Kathenotheism
Maltheism
Monism
Monotheism
Panentheism
Pantheism
Cosmotheism
Polytheism
Shamanism
Suitheism
[edit]
Nonsectarian and trans-sectarian religious movements and practices
[edit]
Esotericism
Alchemy
Anthroposophy
Esoteric Christianity
Freemasonry
Gnosticism
Kabbalah
Occultism
Rosicrucian
Ancient Mystical Order Rosae Crucis
Confraternity of the Rose Cross
Rosicrucian Fellowship
Surat Shabda Yoga
[edit]
Mysticism
Christian mysticism
Gnosticism
Hindu mysticism
Tantra
Ananda Marga Tantra-Yoga
Yoga
Bhakti
Vedanta
Kabbalah (also part of Judaism)
Kabbalah Centre
Martinism
Merkabah (also part of Judaism)
Meditation
Spirituality
Sufism
Theosophy
[edit]
Magic (religion)
Astrology
Divination
Prophecy
Exorcism
Faith healing
Feng Shui
Hoodoo (Rootwork)
New Orleans Voodoo
Magick
Chaos magick
Enochian Magic
Grimoire magick
Goetic magick
Miracles
Pow-wow
Seid (shamanic magic)
Vaastu Shastra (Hinduism)
Witchcraft
[edit]
Ritualism
Prayer
Sacrifice
Animal sacrifice
Human sacrifice
Worship
[edit]
Organizations promoting Ecumenism
Dances of Universal Peace
Inter-religious Organisations
Source(s):
www.skeptic.com
www.csicop.org

Nemesis

So, you can copy and paste from wikipedia - good for you!

Now, did you have a point?