'Only cowards scapegoat kids'

Matt Westerhold
Aug 4, 2014

U.S. Rep. Rep. Luis V. Gutiérrez, D-Ill., in a speech on the House floor Friday called out House Republicans, saying they are following a "script on immigration" from U.S. reps Michele Bachman and Steve King, and U.S. Sen. Ted Cruz, a Tea Party candidate from Texas in his first term.

Say 'No' to GOP immigration bill

"Is there no one in your conference who can stand up and talk sensibly when others in your Party want to demonize Children at the Border and support the Dreamers who live in our neighborhoods across America. You are so frozen in the fear of your own voters, so frozen in the fear of your own colleagues, and the nation needs you to be courageous.

"Only cowards scapegoat children, and only those who are ashamed of themselves do it in the night on a Friday. You are apparently not strong enough to stand up and craft real solutions to American problems.

"In the end, the Republican position on immigration is to deport them all ... it's nonsense and suicide."

Comments

knowitall

Doesn't anyone understand that this illegal traffic of children will continue until we stop it. It is not about kids. Need to stop pulling on those strings. Central and South American people merchants will continue to do this as long as there is a "market" in the US. It will only stop if we prevent it or until we rename our country the "United States of Colombia, Ecuador, etc". Then our economy and society will look like theirs......poor.

jlsullivan50

We refused Jewish children refugees from Poland and Germany back in 1939, and before someone writes these kids are not refugees please research the situation.

vcreed123

Let them open a boarding house across the street from you Matt and we'll see if you're still so emphatic about NOT deporting ANYONE. The weaker they are on it the more they will just stream in, everyone here illegally needs to be sent packing, not doing so is a major disservice to those that DID do it the right way.

Matt Westerhold

Thanks vcreed. You're entitled to your opinion but it seems to me that you and others who share your view contend the rule of law is important, but you convicted everyone without any due process; don't want to allow due process; and don't bother to differentiate at all whether any of the claims for asylum have merit. You also are supporting a "deport all" policy that cannot be accomplished, has no practical purpose, is politically divisive and void of human compassion. You're playing politics with people's lives, with the lives of children. 

There you go again

So, Mr. Westerhold, are you opening your home to these children?

Matt Westerhold

Thanks There you go. Asked and answered. See reply at 5:37 a.m.

Donegan

You never answered the question, You made a statement about having your own opinion. The question was "Would you take some illegals in" that is a yes or no question.

knowitall

Don't deport anyone. Just don't let them in in the first place. Stand in line, take a number, plead your case.....get in or don't get in. Be compassionate about it though. Compassion is not everything goes. Matt you know this is trafficking. This is a business. Corrupt drug lords and others are charging to get these kids to our border because people with the same attitude as yourself are letting them in. Your attitude is promoting more and more of this. And I am a liberal.

vcreed123

I do agree with your point that we both pay taxes and are both entitled to our views. The only difference in our views is you have a soapbox and I do not but that's either here nor there. Let's say for arguments sake every undocumented kid is allowed to stay, what then? where will they go? who will take care of them? who will teach them English, math, etc?

The parents of these children are not "brave" as you once called them, they are cowards that are using their children as pawns to get themselves here. It has been widely publicized these children's parents will be located and brought here to be with their children. The other part of this story is they are coming here with nothing more than a phone number to reach ANOTHER relative who is here illegally and instead of contacting that person and deporting them as well, they are all allowed to stay.

Again, my entire point was, and still is, MILLIONS of people have come here legally, followed the process, passed the test (which I doubt most of us could) and are now productive Americans, why change the rules now? to make you feel good?

buttermaker

Mr. Westerhold, these illegal immigrants broke the law. Due process does not apply, as they are not citizens. Get in line like many (my great grandparents included) have done. I believe you are confused about just who is playing politics here, as from many people's point of view, it is the democratic party, and groups like La Raza who are politicizing this by exploiting these illegal children, and calling people racist who disagree with them. To speak nothing of the families that sent these children here unsupervised, or the current administration, who is dumping these illegals on the states, and then accusing them of being anti-immigration when the respective state wants to do something about the problem.

jlsullivan50

These "illegal aliens" are fleeing for their lives. In Guatemala you have a 1 in 14 chance of being killed, compared to 1 in 250.000 chance in New York City. Back when you great grandparents came over we accepted nearly everyone, read the inscription on the Statue of Liberty. Also due process, within the 14th amendment, does apply if they are on American soil.

buttermaker

I have personally been to Central America, and yes, it is third world, especially when compared to the United States. But we have immigration laws. Get in line. Apply for asylum if the situation warrants. And the Constitution applies to citizens. Not illegal aliens.

jlsullivan50

Your wrong, here is the case. They obviously do not have all the rights of a citizen the rule of law and due process do exist for them. The fact that you have been to Central America really is meaningless in this discussion. I wish your mindset didn't exist in 1939 when Jews from across Europe tried to "invade" our country to escape the Nazi's:.........
In Yick Wo v. Hopkins, a case involving the rights of Chinese immigrants, the Court ruled that the 14th Amendment's statement, "Nor shall any State deprive any person of life, liberty, or property without due process of law; nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws," applied to all persons "without regard to any differences of race, of color, or of nationality," and to "an alien, who has entered the country, and has become subject in all respects to its jurisdiction, and a part of its population, although alleged to be illegally here." (Kaoru Yamataya v. Fisher, 189 U.S. 86 (1903) )

Truth2u

Moderators have removed this comment because it contained Personal attacks (including: name calling, presumption of guilt or guilt by association, insensitivity, or picking fights).

exsanduskian

Once again Matt, how many illegal children have you taken into your home? I bet NONE! You don't mention that once the illegal children are allowed to stay in this country their parents will be allowed to come to this country will you take them into your home also?

Matt Westerhold

Thanks for asking the question again, but again, it's a rude and accusatory and implies I'm not entitled to an opinion unless I take different steps than you do in solving this problem. The cost to solve this problem wouldn't amount to a penny from your change purse. As taxpayers, we're both entitled to babble our opinions how our tax money should be spent, and we're both entitled to advocate different approaches. In my opinion, the lack of compassion, the politicization and the righteousness the protestors and the right demonstrate is nauseating and anti-American. They should be protesting at the Statute of Liberty.

knowitall

You can be compassionate in how you send the back to where they came from. Your definition of compassion seems to be anything goes.
The protestors are somewhat self righteous. But, it is their state and In their "neighborhood".
You also seem to want to take away the protestors right to protest because it does not agree with your opinion. Un-American you say. I think not.
It is a political issue, not a humanitarian one. It is border security. Obama has been delinquent, as had congress, in addressing this homeland security issue. Islamist extremists are licking their chops with this porous border.
And I am a liberal Democrat.

exsanduskian

Matt, you are attacking the wrong people. Try getting to the root of the problem in Washington and that is Obama. He has done more to divide this country than any other president in history. He claims he can't get any bills through the house but why should the Republicans pass any bills when he, through "Executive Orders", changes the LAWS? Let's face it, Obama can't be trusted to uphold the law. Instead of playing golf, vacationing, and flying around the country campaigning for his party(attaxpayer's expense)he should be tending to the business of running this country. A "Community Organizer" is not a leader he is a "DEMANDER". Washington needs a LEADER. By the way, I never voted a straight ticket until 2012 & voted for Bill Clinton!

Contango

Re: "The cost to solve this problem wouldn't amount to a penny from your change purse."

@ Mr. Westerhold:

So what exactly IS the potential unfunded liability for feeding, clothing, housing, educating, giving medical care and more to tens of thousands of individuals illegally crossing the U.S. border?

< 1¢ eh?

Contango

Re: "They should be protesting at the Statute of Liberty."

Absurd argument.

Where on the SOL are liberally provided 'cash and prizes' mentioned?

There you go again

Obama has practically sent invitations to all illegals to come to the US. I wouldn't care as much if I didn't see so extreme poverty in my school ( and the excessive entitlements my students receive).
Where do we draw the (red) line, Obama?

knowitall

Where do you want the red line? It can be picked up and moved wherever and when ever. It fades rather quickly when Obama draws it.

The Hero Zone's picture
The Hero Zone

It's interesting to read a profile on Rep. Gutierrez: http://www.discoverthenetworks.o...

JMOP

Thanks Hero!

Interesting read.
Seeing his track record on education and abortion, I don't think he's doing this for the children. At least it seems he doesn't care about the American children.

sugar

He's a real lover of liberty and freedom. What a nutcase, most likely thinks Amwrica was stolen by Europeans, but forgets Gutierrez is not native American. Sounds Spanish to me.

LivinOnTheLake

Matt, is it so wrong for us "citizens" of the USA to demand from our elected officials that anyone (child or adult) who wants to immigrate to the USA do it the right way and go through the naturalization process? Many immigrants come to America the right way and follow OUR LAWS to become US citizens. Unfortunately, the liberals in this country always pull on everyone's emotions to get what they want and sometimes the USA is not the answer for some and more importantly, I don't really care for MY tax dollars going toward providing entitlements to ILLEGAL ALIENS.

Matt Westerhold

Thanks LivinOnTheLake. I'm not a lawyer but I know due process takes more time than what you're suggesting by already pronouncing each person subject to this draconian view of justice guilty before process. This view assumes guilt without review. It advocates the rule of law even as it ignores the rule of law. It's an ill-informed and disingenuous position. 

knowitall

Not everyone gets into this country because you want them to. LivingOnTheLake is just saying follow the present law. Should not be a problem to follow law should it? So, what is your idea Matt? You seem to want anything goes. Help us by justifying your position/opinion.

Matt Westerhold

Thanks know. Saying "just follow the present law" assumes the law is not being followed. It assumes guilt without and before process and therefore taints the process. It's a view that appears to promote the rule of law as it ignores the rule of law. See Contango's comment below. Process is not convenient. 

JMOP

With all do respect Mr. Westerhold, Obama, and the rest of the government recognize this surge as "illegals". Given that title, it's a safe bet they're not following the rules.

Straight from the http://m.whitehouse.gov/sites/de... website.

"Parents brought them here illegally and give those young men and women a chance to stay in this country if they serve in the military or pursue higher education."

vcreed123

I wonder how they'll pay for higher education when residents of our country can't afford to send their kids to college........

Contango

Re: "can't afford to send their kids to college........"

Liberals totally misunderstand Keynesian economics as: Tax, borrow, print and spend, spend, spend.

They're like the guy who says: How can I be out of money when I still have checks in my checkbook?

Contango

Re: "due process,"

@ Mr. Westerhold:

If the overwhelming majority never show up for their hearings, how is that "due process" or the "rule of law" and not judicial mockery?

"Report: 90% of illegals skip immigration court appearances; 135,000 will go missing":

http://washingtonexaminer.com/re...

Bottom_Line

Only cowards pick and choose which laws they want enforced. Only cowards label legitimate questions as "rude" and "accusatory." I'm all for due process, as I'm sure most commenting here are. But when that's your argument for illegal aliens, whether it be children or otherwise, that's pathetic. Only cowards continue to promote their self righteous personal agenda when push comes to shove it's clear they will do nothing to support their beliefs. And get all hot and steamed when they're asked directly about it.

Matt Westerhold

Thanks Bottom_Line, but again, your statement "illegal aliens" assumes and pronounces guilt without process. It violates the rule of law it pretends to defend. 

Contango

Re: "'illegal aliens' assumes and pronounces guilt without process."

@ Mr. Westerhold:

Are they crossing the border without proper documentation and at non-designated border checkpoints?

How are you not just arguing semantics?

Julian

I'm just curious, say theoretically these children go through a due process court case, they are determined to be illegal immigrants, and they are not refugees. What is your solution?

I still believe that the issue isn't an immigration issue, it's a humanitarian issue. But it's still a very difficult problem.

Wjones44

Westerhold is the troll of all trolls!

Truth2u

Your making yourself look like a bigger fool than your article first portrayed you, Matt. You seriously don't see how easy it is to determine if someone is here illegally? REALLY? If you keep this up you will loose what credibility you have left.

Illegal is someone who is here not being a citizen and here without permission. Your just acting the fool to save face because once again, Matt, you've been pushed into a corner.

Contango

"In the end, the Republican position on immigration is to deport them all ... it's nonsense and suicide."

It is truly "nonsense."

It's the typical 'nonsensical' straw man argument spewed by lil' demagogues like Mr. Gutiérrez from the financially broke state of IL.

IL: Lowest credit rating of any state in the U.S.

freespeech1

Lets not forget contango that Mayor Emmanuel wants to bring these kids to Chicago. Maybe before doing that, he may want to stop the slaughter of kids in his hell hole of a city before bringing more in!!

Contango

IL:

Their $100 billion underfunded public employee pension mess is costing them an estimated $100K PER DAY!

Shows ya what 30 yrs. of Democrat party legislative rule will do for ya!

http://www.pionline.com/article/...

sugar

Please pass this post on over to the Rebuild Sandusky crew, who thinks that public sector union workers DESERVE ever increasing salaries, because, well just because they can demand it.

freespeech1

Matt have you ever lived by the border? Well I have for over a year, and I will tell you if you did you would change your attitude. Crime is rampant, drugs everywhere, filthy living conditions, popping out kids like there is no tomorrow, and living off the government dole is the norm. Its easy to spew bs when your 2000 miles away from the problem, take a trip Matt to south Texas and see for yourself, and you will see that MSNBC isn't giving you the entire story.

Peninsula Pundit

Although considered liberal in many of my views, I object to the backhanded way the immigration issue is now being presented. It seems to be the same way school levies are handled: 'Think of the Kids!'
The first try was 'immigration reform.'
Well, what needed to be reformed, really?
There are long-standing policies in place for a path to citizenship in this country. I imagine most of our forebears went through this process, coming through Ellis Island and other legal ways. But with 'immigration reform', it seems that the push was to allow folks who have entered the country illegally to get a pass for citizenship. Well, that didn't play well across America so now it's being re-packaged with the face of sad children on the cover.
I still don't buy it.
But now, opponents of 'immigration reform' get to be referred to as 'haters of children.' It seems most everything in this country which is opposed by people with more conservative views are being attacked by the same format that got homosexual marriages in place. If you don't like something, you are a hater, plain and simple. And if you're a hater, well, naturally, there must be something wrong with you, not the issue that is being put forward. Maybe people who don't consider an issue from all sides are misled, but not those who watch what goes on in our country from a more centered position between the extremes of right or left, con or lib.
This is just 'immigration reform' in different packaging.
And immigration simply doesn't need to be reformed.
It has worked fine for over 100 years, just as it is.

The Hero Zone's picture
The Hero Zone

Thank you!

Justme...

The reason immigration needs reformed is because there no longer a "line" to get into. You cannot come in legally unless you are highly skilled and have a job waiting for you. But we let illegals in (yes, we let them in) because we need them to work for substandard pay. Let's get back the days when there actually was a line, and do away with the illegal employment that currently exists.

Silent_Majority

I think Matt has stated his opinion/ position quite clearly on every article written about this subject. I also believe in due process and also believe that our borders should be better protected. Many of the posters say that is Obamas fault, I agree! However, I also believe that the ones seeking political asylum from paramilitary organizations should be granted immediately citizenship if proving so, and that is following a specific law by the way. I understand that many of you blame the government of these disfunctional countries that are fighting against the well funded drug cartels. But one has to think of how these cartels got so much power and that is through drug sales. One only has to look at the USA to find that answer as we as a nation consume close to 70% of the worlds illicit drugs where 95% come from those South American countries, so in a sense we do have some measure of fault on all our hands whether you do drugs or not doing enough in your neighborhoods to help combat this epidemic. Like many heartless posters say "let them do drugs until they die" or " drug addiction is not a disease" regardless of what you think those are not the answer to solving this problem. There are drugs available to stop addiction though reverse use of illicit drugs however those avail themselves to the lesser population of the specifically insured. Addiction treatment coupled with these various types of drugs would help a good portion. But those attitudes I described above have greatly hindered and increased this major problem. Just something to think about.

sugar

We didn't create the drug trade, criminals did, 3rd world, make a buck criminals did. You choose to sell drugs, just like you choose to use them, another nonsensical, good old anti American liberal argument.
Please tell me, I'm dying to know what drugs are used to stop drug addiction?

knowitall

We sure helped create the drug trade. Supply and demand! People are "demanding" their drugs in this country so they are being supplied.

sugar

You can come here and demand drugs all day long from me and I'm not going into the business because you so demand it. It would be a choice to sell drugs, and of course it's purely an exchange of goods, no other ugliness surrounds it.

knowitall

Sounds like good capitalism.

holysee

But nobody complains about a quarter mill mrap that was never needed in the first place and is given away to police who don't need it so military can buy more unneeded mraps. Please waste my money on military adventures but not a single cent for compassion.

sugar

Due process my A**, just like the due process our Marine got in Mexico.
Most of these "children" are 16/17 y/o criminals.
You would think you would be just a bit more sophisticated about their world Matt. Did you know it is not illegal, not frowned upon to molest children in S America? Do you have a clue what their culture is like? I'm thinking no, you do not. It's a desperate, take what you can get, lie your way through place.
You're making a great country for your children and grandchildren to grow up in.
Gutierrez is a La Raza supporter who would see a white boy like you destroyed, Matt, wake the heck up.

The Big Dog's back

"Did you know it is not illegal, not frowned upon to molest children in S America?"
Been to W. Virginia lately? How about Tennessee or Kentucky? Not illegal there either.

freespeech1

Pretty ignorant statement puppy. From the clown that always preaches about bigotry you make comments like that. Hypocrite

vcreed123

I'd stay away from big dog's house too, just in case.....

heycaptainjohn

How soon you "forget" the Boston Marathon Bombers... one ILLEGALY here on an "expired" VISA ..and subsidized by OUR TAX DOLLARS. How many American Citizens did he murder and how many men, women and children (Americans)did he cripple and injure..altering THEIR lives forever. SIMPLE... Secure our borders and UPHOLD our immigration laws. Gather up and ARREST all the LAWBREAKERS and DEPORT them! No "due process or RIGHTS for non citizens"...Simple.

Bottom_Line

Moderators have removed this comment because it contained Personal attacks (including: name calling, presumption of guilt or guilt by association, insensitivity, or picking fights).

Contango

@ Bottom_Line:

Congratulations! Wear it as a badge of honor.

I don't know what you wrote, but I can assume.

Helps to demonstrate the prejudicial & limited use of censoring by SR.

Whereas extreme, mean-spirited leftist views are openly incited, advocated & expressed, those with a conservative bent tend to be the only ones expunged.

B0ttom Line

@contango

Literally all I said was that I think it speaks volumes when even a number of openly far left liberals think this point of view is ridiculous. I was actually complimenting them for saying so. And then for the second time in a week I was banned.

And you're exactly right. Left wingers can come on here and use foul language, make infinite number of insults and even defend/justify cop killers. Their comments almost never get removed. But because I ask SOMEONE direct questions and expect a straight answer I get banned from the comment boards. Twice. I said not one thing inappropriate or foul.

sugar

Facebook does the same garbage, most Conservatives call it Fascistbook. You can be banned from posting for hours, days, months. The libs use the most vile language, threaten and rarely are they banned or posts removed. But begin to undermine the lib think and WHAM!!!, bye bye.

JMOP

@Sugar

That's why I closed my account on Facebook. They target conservative views. Twitter is so much better

sugar

Still love to see the lib morons on FB. All panting for Hillahag now.

The Big Dog's back

Dissect the word assume pooh. Goes for you and bottom feeder.

Restless1

Matt: It's vacation season so why don't you broaden your horizon by taking a trip to Texas. I did quite a few years ago and really had my eyes opened and my opinions changed. Please Matt, take a vacation.

vcreed123

I had to go to Dallas about 10 years ago and the menus at the fast food joints (BK, McD's, etc) where in English and Spanish. It should not be our problem to cater to their lack of understanding the English language, if you can't read english well enough to order a Big Mac, I think you're living in the wrong place.

Justme...

Complain to McDonalds, not to us. They are corporation, its a free country, and they can market to whomever they choose.

Please

Matt, you keep saying "due process" and "guilt without process"! They are not following the "process" of getting into this great country. You dont get due process then get into the country legally. You come into the country the legal way, then get due process. They are not taking the proper steps like others have in the past. Follow the correct process and you will get "due process". I know you will not respond to this because it makes too much sense! There is a process and they are not following it.....plain and simple!

Contango

Re: "you keep saying 'due process' and 'guilt without process'!"

Perhaps Mr. Westerhold merely adheres to the Alice in Wonderland school of law & logic:

"'When I use a word,' Humpty Dumpty said, in rather a scornful tone, 'it means just what I choose it to mean—neither more nor less.'"

Babo

President Bush signed a law establishing a separate "process" for children arriving in this country by whatever means from countries in Central America other than Mexico. Thus these children are entitled to due process protections upon arrival in this country.

Most commentators here seem to be fixated on extreme legalism and fail to recognize that in many ways these people are refugees of a war maybe not in the traditional sense but a war nevertheless, and thus are treated differently than people who are "immigrants".

As Americans we have enjoyed for the most part the unique luxury of seeing wars (economic or traditional) fought elsewhere for our benefit and not significantly impacting us personally on our land. As the world shrinks we will increasingly have to deal with the consequences of the social and economic injustices our policies cause and share in that burden.

People who reside almost everywhere else in the world have had to deal with war in their backyard within 2-3 generations and they understand that wars generate refugees and displaced persons. Our national selfishness and policies created this humanitarian crisis and we have an obligation to deal with it if the nation is to have any moral credibility/standing in the world.

I never really understood where the phrase "Ugly Americans" arose but I do now.

Contango

Re: "we have an obligation to deal with it,"

So what do you think; a 100% confiscatory federal income tax ought to pay for every war-torn refugee worldwide to be provided with free room, board, education and medical care in the U.S.?

Babo

No.

Contango

Re: "No."

So what would be the estimated potential unfunded liability for 'correcting' pretty much 100 + years of U.S. imperialism?

Secondly, how should this be paid for?

Babo

Sigh.

Contango

Re: "Sigh."

How will sighing fix and/or alleviate the problem you raised?

Isn't this ultimately a dollars and cents issue?

Babo

Contango: There is a reply key labeled in blue after each post. My initial post was a reply to "Please". Please had made inaccurate statements concerning the legal concept of due process of law. My post pointed out that these children are not "illegal" as a law of this country (and international treaties) applies to them.

As is your custom you hi-jacked the discussion with questions that are not relevant to the discourse. You don't get to dictate which laws and international treaties this country must honor.

Contango

Re: "that are not relevant to the discourse."

Financing this social experiment isn't relevant?

Babo

LOL, the country was founded as a social experiment and continues to be a morass of social experiments. Go ahead and refuse to fund the social experiments you don't like.

sugar

Blaming us, the everyday working, tax paying American, who will undoubtedly pay more taxes and suffer the disastrous effects, of God knows how many illegals for policies those in DC have enacted is insane Babo.
Those in DC who decided and implemented those policies are the same ones who are allowing the over run of our borders. They have made themselves wealthy with sweet deals, use the loop holes to pay less of a percentage of a tax rate than most of us do, party on our dime, and they will not have, for the most part, deal with any of these illegals. Their kids won't go to school with them, they won't live in their neighborhoods, use their hospitals, etc.
tell me Babo how the he** do you blame AMERICANS, US for this?

Babo

We elected them in our representative/republican form of government. Their actions like it or not are our actions.

sugar

So you're saying that they actually REPRESENT us? Really? Oh I know that when I vote for my reps, POTUS, whomever I am voting for them to pull all the crap they do. BS, that's why a majority of Americans are waking up, because they do NOT represent us.

Babo

No kidding. So why are you wasting time discussing it here or encouraging silly protests led by beer bellied old guys wearing American flags? Today's Americans are soft, all talk no action.

sugar

Don't change the subject. Your premise of blaming us for the state of S America and every other 3rd world hole is BS. Their own governments are in on it, their governments are despicably corrupt, yet it's Americas fault.
Amazing it's the Americans who are the most generous when charities come to call, in disasters. Americans have dumped BILLIONS into these countries in order to help them, than fools like you tell us we created the ugliness. A big BS honey.

Babo

I'm not changing the subject. You complain endlessly about the leadership of this country yet offer no meaningful alternatives.

We as a nation dump billions on countries not out of some humanitarian desire to help people but to promote our economy and influence to maintain our way of life by keeping the masses dumb and happy with entitlements. The Middle East comes to mind and the dictatorships we set up around the world.

Real charity is done by religiously minded people and this country cannot take credit for it as it abandoned any pretense of moral integrity a while back.

sugar

And we come back around full circle to we, the voter have little control over what DC, does. You understand that yet you think it's righteous we should all suffer the consequences.
As far as offering a meaningful alternative to the worlds woes? What a gotcha question, what are your prescriptions? I'm just a working schmuck trying to lessen the grief on my own existence. And if it means complaining loudly than so be it.

The Big Dog's back

sugar, when did you get a job and start paying taxes?

vcreed123

Relax he's a democrat, he didn't... statuesque is in check.

AJ Oliver

With cheers from the right wing, the US destabilized Central America and overthrew democratically elected governments. The drug war is only a small part of it. Now you are reaping what you have sown.

Contango

Re: "destabilized Central America,"

Are you sure that you just don't wanna go back to the 16th Century and blame Europeans in general?

The Big Dog's back

Just like the right wingers destabilized Iraq.

vcreed123

It's comical to read BIG DOG's comments, never anything intelligent to say or constructive to add to the conversation....Wingnut....Wingnut, nothing to say just wants to be involved. Wingut...stupidest thing I've ever heard, calling someone a piece of hardware....no wonder most democrats are on the dole..

Dr. Information

We have laws already in place. This argument by Matt holds no water. Illegal is illegal. We are wasting tax dollars with the due process all the bleeding liberals cry for. No papers, no Visa, no USA SS number = guilty. Pack them up on a bus and take them back to their place of origin. Its not like we are sending them to prison for crying out loud.

Immigration reform is just another way of saying, lets give everyone here a pass right now for votes and start fresh. The problem is, the problem isn't getting fixed at all. I'd rather see my tax dollars go to building 100 detention centers at the border to capture and release back to where they came from.

We have to rid ourselves of this notion that America can take on everyone and take everyone who wants to come here and take care of Earth.

We need to step back, secure our borders, take care of OUR CITIZENS first and foremost.

AJ Oliver

If "Illegal is illegal" why does the right like torture so much? That is also supposed to be illegal.

Contango

Re: "torture,"

The Repubs are advocating the "torture" of "God's children"?

The border mess IS the topic isn't it?

Donegan

Oh look another Big dog who's record got stuck on "The right"
Repeating yourself constantly is a sign of a mental disorder.
Illegal IS illegal, So is murder and torture. Quit defending your president for doing BOTH.

The Big Dog's back

Where's the Repub bi-partisan immigration bill? Oh, that's right, there is no such thing.

JMOP

I believe I'm one of them that you are referring to.

What is considered torture? Hosing down cold water or making them lose some sleep on a tactical terrorist who wants to harm not only my children, but everyone else's children along with the populous of the United States?

We are also protecting all the illegals living here from these terrorists groups who want to blow up the United States. See, just like the left, I can stretch it to my advantage too.

Wjones44

The ultimate Troll Westerhold has all of you sucked in to giving this website hits. He's sitting back laughing all the way to the bank. Just ignore the Troll!

Mum-of-One

Because these children are from non-contiguous countries (not Canada or Mexico), they cannot be immediately deported, but must first go before a judge. This is according to U.S. law, as well as international refugee treaties to which the U.S. is party.

Contango

Re: "must first go before a judge."

But most are simply released into the gen'l population and never bother showing up. What to do?

Just give 'em amnesty plus FREE 'cash and prizes'?

The U.S. might as well put out a large "Vacancy" sign, while accepting refugees from all over the world.

According to UN criteria, there are an estimated 1.9 billion poor in the world.

Come on in!

The Big Dog's back

Why would right wingnuts actually follow the rule of law? They never have before so why now?

KURTje

AJ is right - Freeway Ricky Ross. Similar to that butcher Pinochet set up by the Nixon administration. Hey what about migrant labour? Our tax $$ pay it & Agribusiness get cheap help. Then we have WithOutPaper, people forget their history.

SamAdams

Okay, Matt, we get it: Anything and everything is excusable or worth the price if it's "for the children." So please feel free to explain how you're prioritizing your "for the children" rationale when it comes to the criminal youth gang members and our own cities, when it comes to disease and our own elementary schools, when it comes to costs and the already existing insolvency of Medicaid and Social Security that help kids already (and legally) here.

Please also explain your repeated demands for "due process" when removing invaders in this context is no different than forcibly removing a burglar from your living room prior to him being convicted of any crime in a court of law.

Interestingly enough, do you know what would solve these problems and end the debate on BOTH sides? NOT LETTING PEOPLE ILLEGALLY CROSS THE BORDER IN THE FIRST PLACE! Added bonuses: Terrorism prevention, drug interdiction, human trafficking prevention.

P.S. Protest at the Statue of Liberty? Really? How ironic since nearby Ellis Island was a processing center for all of those who wanted to LEGALLY enter the country! The Statue of Liberty is NOT the Statute of Limitations for crimes. She is, rather, a symbol of welcome to those who wish to become citizens UNDER OUR LAWS, and live free UNDER OUR CONSTITUTION (both of those things, incidentaly, requiring secure borders -- just FYI, since you seem to have forgotten some of your American History classes).

B0ttom Line

@Sam

As happens quite often you have the best post in this discussion.

Donegan

Lets take a different look at this problem here. By the US government opening up our borders to allow illegals to cross they have created a humanitarian crises with the onrush of children who were promised by the executive that they would be taken in. The states and area's were completely overwhelmed at the onrush and now the government is asking for 3.7 billion dollars to spend on people who should not even be here. That 3.7 billion is tax money being diverted from programs that help our citizens i.e the people who are legally here and need our help. How many homeless shelters and food banks could that same 3.7 billion help out? Don't the government care about the homeless anymore? There's 1.750.000 of them who are already citizens and are here legally.
http://www.statisticbrain.com/ho...

sugar

The Dems have a new class of undereducated, dependent, dupes, blacks aren't breeding enough, too many abortions, let's go with the Latinos, growing demographic. Until they use them up.

JMOP

That's sadly the truth sugar.

holysee

teabagging teabaggers of the bagged tea persuasion pick and choose what laws are important because their views are obviously superior to everything
cowardly cowards of the GOP flaw

freespeech1

You just described president Obama!!! Get your head out of the feedbag and join reality.

Donegan

Rut Roh.....We may have another progressive/liberal meltdown on the way. This is your brain on drugs or liberalism folks.

The Big Dog's back

You right wingnuts wouldn't know the law even if it was set up with pictures on youtube.

Donegan

Obviously more than you, We have borders for a reason and there are laws prohibiting the crossing of those borders. Now if we could only get your god to do his damn job and enforce the law.
Illegal is Illegal.

The Big Dog's back

So einstein, what is the exact law you're talking about? And not the one "in your Head".

Donegan

Don't know huh? Typical Democrat.

sugar

The libs here GOT NOTHING, so they name call, deflect, divert, blame. Pathetic. I wonder when Sugarr will show up?

The Big Dog's back

When will you learn what the law is?

Donegan

Please explain the law that allows open borders. Please show valid links to the allowance of illegal crossing of our borders complete with date ratified by congress under our penal code.
If not i suggest you stop posting stupidity trying to deflect from the fact your god is not doing his job.

The Big Dog's back

See above.

Donegan

I seen above. You are asking me for the law because you have no clue. As i said a disease.

The Big Dog's back

Read below.

The Big Dog's back

I knew you had no clue what the law is, so once again, read below.

Donegan

Actually i do know the law.I also know your a liberal who
1. Is too lazy to google anything or
2. not smart enough to know what a law is.
3. probably both
Heres some charity. Read it and then we can discuss why your god does not enforce the law.
http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscod...

tk

It appears there are some hypocritical opinions expressed here. "Use the money for the citizens here who need help". You forget, the right wingers are opposed to that also.

sugar

As if LAWS were of any concern to the imposter and his regime, that's priceless. Yep, we got to learn what them laws is. Lol!

coasterfan

Those who are against illegal aliens should not also be against amnesty - a legal path to citizenship - for illegals. They aren't going to self-deport, and you don't want to provide any funding to resolve the issue, so yours is not a realistic way to deal with the problem.

And to think that the Republican Party markets itself as the "religious right". How odd that the so-called Christians among us often act the least Christian-like.

Donegan

You are stealing from future generation and diverting funds from the homeless citizens of this country. Hows it feel to abuse children and take the food from hungry mouths of the nations homeless?
And to think the Democrat party markets itself as a caring humanitarian party, Weird how the party of compassion creates humanitarian crises for nothing more than a photo op to further a agenda.

vcreed123

I"m a republican (wingnut so bigdog gets it) I'm not religious and I think every one of them that walked across the border should get packed up and sent home pronto. What is it you think they are going to do here coaster?? They're going to get on government bennies, send home the extra and leach off the system until they can fund their 400 family members to sneak across.

thinkagain

“Let children die”

“Only cowards scapegoat kids”

Liberals have finally come up with two honest mottos for their stance on abortion.

The New World Czar

Fine, let's say 100 or so illegals all occupy the revamped Rieger building. We'll all pass out leaflets telling them Obama went back on his promise but to go across the road to the newspaper building for their free meals, play time, and healthcare.

Matt Westerhold

Really New World Czar... ignorant comment meant to be funny but void of humor. 

Contango

Re: "... ignorant comment,"

@ Mr. Westerhold:

How is the tenor of this posting in keeping with the spirit of the "Discussion Guildlines?

Shouldn't you censor yourself?

Matt Westerhold

Thanks Contango, but it is ignorant to be a proponent of sending children away without due process and sending some of them to their deaths. And it's ignorant to joke about it.  

JMOP

Sending them home to their deaths?

Is that a fact, or an opinion?

sugar

It's a talking point, there is no proof that these kids will go home "to die." They've been coached as to what to say.
Nothing has changed in S America over the last 20 yrs, we've not had refugees before. This is a progressive created crisis.

Matt Westerhold
sugar

Such drama! "The executioner" really? Their executioners are their own leaders.

Matt Westerhold

That's exactly why asylum laws were established Sugar. Are you really OK with sending children back to leaders who will kill them? You just can't be bothered with any human compassion? It's mind-boggling that people can be so void of conscious, so selfish and self-centered, and living in a world of 'what's mine is mine' scarcity that a free people would want to deny others freedom. It's an anti-freedom position; it's anti-American. It's mind-boggling that people would protest and demand children be sent back to their deaths, and do it with a patriotic zeal. This woman shows a more true American spirit and is more deserving than all the protestors put together.

Wjones44

I really think Westerhold has lost it. I honestly feel sorry for him.

Wjones44

Nah, I don't.

JMOP

Mr. Westerhold,

Thank you for the link, but did you see the disclaimer? "JOSE DIAZ-BALART KICKS OFF NEW MSNBC SHOW WITH WEEPING ILLEGAL IMMIGRANT GUEST
'MSNBC is not in a position to verify the story you are about to hear ...'"

I'm not sure why the link you provided showed up as "You be executioner", JMOP. When I copy and paste it shows https://grabien.com/story.php?id....
I'm hoping that was just a weird glitch, and you weren't referring to me as a child executioner. Let me make it clear I care for ALL children. Even the babies that are aborted. Unlike Obama, I care for all stages of childhood.

Perhaps you are unaware of the gang violence happening here in America. What makes this so different then their own countries? I could also give you links if you would like about American children who are dead for not joining gangs, mostly in Chicago where Mayor Emmanuel wants to take in 1,000 children. Will the children be better off there? Will the people of Chicago be safer off with these children going there?

On a side note:

How do we know that these are all children? They could be in their 20's. Their real names, background history, what country are they really from? How does the government know, how could we possibly know? Can we actually trust the governments word looking at their track history? Did they bring ID's?

Matt Westerhold

Thanks JMOP. Did you find her to be credible? The struggle for freedom never ends and it is sometimes an ugly thing. But it does not require an ID. 

JMOP

Lately Mr. Westerhold, I've been questioning everything the government does. Whether it be on the local, state or federal level. You've opened my eyes on the local police departments and the AG, and I thank you for that.

As for her story, I don't know. I went to high school with some pretty convincing story tellers. I'm not saying it didn't happen, but with that disclaimer, it doesn't help make it more convincing to me.

Matt Westerhold

Thanks JMOP. Verifying her story likely would take many months retracing the months-long journey she took to come here. This particular piece allowed this young woman to tell her story, properly showing it was not traced back and verified by the reporter. I found it to be credible. Inevitably, naysayers will claim it's not authentic, without verifying that claim or acknowledging it's not verified. It's good this woman was given the chance to tell her story, before she's dead. 

vcreed123

No problem, here's some new cowboy boots, head south.....

Contango

Re: "sending children away without due process and sending some of them to their deaths."

@ Mr. Westerhold:

So based on that criteria, is the number of foreign born children that the U.S. should be willing to accept indeterminate?

Again: If approx. 90% aren't showing up for their hearings, what's to be done?

Other than nebulous, emotionally laden straw man arguments what have you concretely contributed?

sugar

Another liberal duped by the Dems and the children argument. When it comes to resources your own children always come first. DEPORT them.

vcreed123

Sending them to their deaths???? Jesus when did you turn into such a drama queen....They walk across the border and they are picked up by border patrol with no papers, what are they??? Do you really need them to have a day in court to verify they are illegal? Come on man......

The New World Czar

Fine, Matt- you call my comment ignorant...for the record, how many times have you been to the Tex-Mex border to see what that particular part of the Republic of Texas is like? Probably as many times as your beloved President.

It's very easy for you to sit in your sterile environment and comment on situations, but when the scenario gets thrown back your way, your snippy reactions define your true self.

vcreed123

It doesn't sound like he has, but hey, it makes him feel good about himself...

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