Go away, gay

Matt Westerhold
Jan 20, 2014

 

The firing of Brian Panetta as the St. Mary Central Catholic High School band and choir director is one sad story, on so many levels.

The saddest part, perhaps, is the school had the courage to hire Panetta nearly five years ago likely knowing from the beginning he was gay. That was a courageous step for a Catholic school, and Panetta thrived as director, doubling the size of the band and giving it back its “Panther Pride.”

From a believer's perspective, one might think God had a lot to do with Panetta getting hired in the first place; he served those students for 4½ years and nobody has even suggested he did not serve them, and their families, well. He, and they, both appear to have prospered from the experience.

Men and women who don't have faith often envy those who do and wish they too could be believers. From a non-believer's perspective, however, the decision to fire Panetta might appear to be a man-made occurrence in defiance of the universe, in defiance of God.

Click here to read related articles and watch interview with Panetta

It wasn't an easy decision for the school and church doctrine appears to mandate that Panetta be cast aside and sent away from the parish he loved and the parish that loved him. Panetta could have stayed as long as he didn't make a “public” statement about who he really was, as long as he agreed to deny his own self-worth in front of the God who created him, and the world.

It's difficult for many to understand that hide the sin-use the sinner hypocrisy. It creates an image of Panetta being cast out in shame from the great institution St. Mary's is, and always has been, despite past difficulties with real sexual misconduct involving priests.

There also likely have been gay parishioners who gave a lifetime of devotion to the church and school, and past staff members at St. Mary's, who, as long as they denied their own sexual identities, were allowed to “sin” and prosper in the faith.

Making good people hide their true selves, for people of faith, must be like forcing them to deny God's perfection in creating them differently than he created others. And it's likely those past people of faith struggled with that every day of their faithful lives.

Understanding God is easier, perhaps, than understanding church doctrine, and the decision to fire Panetta does appear to have come more from outside Sandusky, and even outside the reach of the Toledo Diocese..

Again, these were difficult decisions made in the clash of 2,000-year-old tradition and belief system against the modern enlightenment that every person — regardless of orientation — has the right to love and marry the person they choose, and to love God.

But the battle over words that ensued after Panetta was fired, over the terminology to describe the separation and who made the decision, also seemed disingenuous. It was a speak the lie-hide the truth approach. Panetta was fired. Period. If they agreed to let him return, he likely would be at the school Monday morning.

Initially, school officials seemed to want to make it clear that Brian resigned, and was not fired. But firing someone one day and giving them the chance to resign a week later or remain fired is still a firing. It's sad that the “public face” they hoped to portray is not the “true face.”

There was a similar word game as to where the decision was made, with the Diocese initially suggesting it was a local decision, and local school officials suggesting it was forced by the diocese. In the end, the edict likely comes from Rome, and the men and women involved here appear to have tried their best to do what they felt compelled to do.

And one last time, these were difficult decisions in a changing world involving a religion that cherishes its traditions and beliefs and is slow to change or evolve. Local decision makers and the Diocese missed an opportunity to speak truth and foster a change that many — including Catholics — believe is needed.

Panetta seems to be a person more clear in his convictions who knows who he is, as a man, as a teacher, as a Catholic and as a musician and future spouse to Nathan than most of us do.

And he should know, his presence in Sandusky has changed us and sparked a conversation that might never have happened without him. It is truly a teachable moment, as he suggested, and the lessons for his students, especially, and for the community at large, will be reviewed and considered by many for a long time to come.

Watch the "between the Lines" interview with Panetta

 

Comments

Steve P

He was going to resign at the end of the school year and admitted his decision violated his employment contract. Why not wait to turn in your resignation at the end of the year, save yourself a firing on your record and the turmoil in the school and community, unless you want to make it about you and your views.

John Harville

He never said anything 'publicly' which is the elementary element of the contract he was said to have violated.

And.. yeah... that's the good Catholic (if not Christian) way. Live a lie, deny your love, do whatever it takes to stay in your position.

Even if you're a priest and have to threaten that little boy you just molested with hellfire or that you'll have his parents killed.

Steve P

He wasn't dismissed for being gay, in fact he worked for 5 years while being open about his life style, he was dismissed for violation of his contract where it pertained to church doctrine. Marriage is a sacrament in the Catholic Church between a man & women, this young man is educated he did know he was violating church doctrine. By waiting to the end of the year he was not deny anything only staying within his employment contract.

John Harville

He worked five years while being honest... but ONLY since July for THIS president-principal.

He did not violate the contract - even if it was legal. He did NOT live publicly with his boyfriend. He did NOT campaign publicly for gay marriage or even for the gay lifestyle. He did not publicly announce his engagement - actually Mrs. Curtis did that (which puts her in violation of her contract). He did not bring his lifestyle into the classroom. He did not MOLEST any children (oh, but that didn't get you fired in this Diocese).

Steve P

Wow why so angry and hostile, you bigotry against the Catholic Church is evident, you might want to seek counseling.

John Harville

My 'bigotry against the Catholic Church'?
About 10 years ago I was instrumental in saving the Church about $12 million in "Pedophile Priest" RICO lawsuit by researching the law and finding the flaw in the Plaintiffs' case that led to much of the case being dismissed.
If I come across as 'angry and hostile', all I can say is GOOD! I'm sure I've probably been Catholic longer than you've been alive. I'm from a family of Catholic school teachers, Eucharistic ministers and lectors.
The only reason I did not complete the application for the Diaconate was because I realized of the 24 people in the room completing the lay preparation, only six of us could ever be deacons - the other 18 were women.
I worked closely with several sisters who - though they cannot be ordained - routinely gave 'spiritual counseling' to Diocesan priests so they could better serve as spiritual leaders for their congregations.. Are you yet catching the irony here?
Five years I taught CCD classes - the last three to 8th graders preparing for Confirmation. The parish where I taught regretted when health issues forced my retirement. I have letters from many of those students as they graduated high school thanking me for helping them discover their faith.
Please delineate the 'evidence' of my alleged bigotry against the Catholic Church. I assure you it has nothing to do with the Church recently lifting the 500-year excommunication of Gallileo for insisting the earth moved around the sun.
And yet... the anger. I have spent decades watching the Church cling desperately to similar outdated and indefensible positions. I've watched as hundreds of my Catholic friends and relatives fall away, run away, or stay to work from within. Most of them use/used several means of contraception. At least 20 are divorced and therefore 'denied' the sacraments but only changed where they attend and continue to partake the Eucharist and attend weekly.
My anger is about a Church so entrenched at the upper levels that it continues to put 'doctrine' above 'believers in Christ' and thus forces away excellent members, leaders, contributors all in the name of a "Catholic Lifestyle" that even the priests and others don't live.
The Lord has blest me with opportunities to study and know the Law, the Catechism, the Doctrine, the Scriptures and to be an accomplished and nationally-awarded writer.
I've also been blest to live in several villages, towns and cities and develop friendships nationwide - nay, worldwide. Among my 'six degrees of separation' are Toledo, Rossford, Monroe Michigan, Sandusky - all of which have meaning for a key player in this unfolding saga.
So when I see, hear, read about the Faith and Church I love putting ahead of people in the pews a doctrine which burned people at the stake for daring to read the Bible; which left unbaptized dead babies in a place called Limbo (thank God they got rid of that); which made people pay money to be forgiven; worse - which coerced people into paying 'indulgences' to get loved ones out of Purgatory; which... oh why go on... or which tries to force its members and employees to surrender Constitutional rights - then I get angry. I know this one day will change - as sure as I know we don't go to Hell for speaking the Mass in English or reading the Bible for ourselves, or taking the Blessed Body of Christ in the hand, or celebrating folk masses - or even singing as a congregation. I just choose to be a part of the change and a part of bringing it about.
Besides, we now have a Pope who knows the meaning of humility, who believes we are called to be servants rather than served, that we are intended to worship Christ rather than worship the ritual of worshiping Christ.
About the evidence of my bigotry... are you man enough?
I

Babo

Feel better now? It's "RICO" for racketeering and corrupt influenced organization as opposed to RICOH which is a brand of camera.

In your legal research you might want to research the Tort of False Light Invasion of Privacy and consider if you are being true to Christ in your writings.

sugar

Babo is still writing his thesis, oops that's right he didn't have too. LMAO!!

Nemesis

Well, that explains the seething anger, attacking everyone, including those who've agreed with you. Your postings vacilate between exemplifying Protestantism and Richard Dawkins-style militant atheism. You've ranted against Church doctrines in one comment that you've denied exist in another. You've criticized the Church for discouraging Bible reading in the past, and then in another post deconstructed the legitimacy of the Bible. You say you taught catholic doctrine, but you've posted misstatements of that doctrine. You seem to have a personal axe to grind with Melody Curtis - is SHE the one who apparently peed in your oatmeal a few mornings ago, because your approach shouts that SOMEONE did.

There is no one who is as anti-something as an ex-something. A few questions about this anti-catholic crusade you're on:

-You've gone on and on about Jesus' "one commandment" which, it should be noted was not His only commandment, but rather what He named as the most important commandment. Is it then your position that nothing is sinful as long as one tells oneself one is doing it out of love?

-Do you believe that love means never disapproving of what someone does?

In general, this topic seems to inspire a lot of anger from the side that you appear to represent, and it really doesn't make sense. All reasonable people place a boundary between acceptable and unacceptable sexual expression, except for the Shaker sect which sees all sexual activity as wrong and a criminal element who don't even see rape wrong. Why does it make people so furiously angry that some people choose a slightly different places to draw that line?

In two comments you referred to 'Open and Affirming' churches whose members 'embrace all of God's children'

If that's how you feel, John, why don't you just join one of them? I'll tell you, though, if you really want a church where Catholic-bashing is in fashion, you're going to have a problem, since the most anti-Catholic congregations are the Independent Fundamentalisr Baprists, and they take an even harder line on the sexual morality you seem to think is so evil.

sugar

Another "leave" if you don't like it comment. All of that rambling for that final thought.

John Harville

Nemesis... your argument falls apart on the 'only commandment' statement. It is the ONLY commandment Jesus spoke and was given on his way to the cross when he was telling us how to carry on his work..

When, much earlier, he was asked which is the greatest commandment - meaning of the Big 10, he replied "The first, to love the Lord your God with all.... and the second is like unto it to love your neighbor as you love yourself." But those were not his!
"THIS is my commandment. I command you to love one another as I have loved you."
Keep railing at me Nemesis... it's your favorite past-time. I have cited specifics in Catholic doctrine. What have you offered except broad statements that I'm wrong? Give us the right ones.
As to another of your points... i believe love means loving disagreement. I'm not in a position to 'disapprove'. If someone interprets what I say as disapproval, the determination is theirs/yours, not mine.
I am so tired of you accusing me and others of Catholic-bashing. Interesstingly, that's the same approach taken when adults came forward to tell of abuse they suffered as children by priests.

sanduskymom

John, how do YOU know all of that? How do YOU know he worked for 5 years while being honest? I doubt very much that he announced he was a gay man during his interview, and I doubt the school asked. Is it possible he slowly, over a long period of time, introduced his partner to students and families? Do you think some thought they could have been just been roommates, sharing expenses? Do YOU know because he told you, that they have never lived together? Do you think, possibly, that no one was asking him if he was gay, and he wasn't offering it. It was assumed.....just as you assume so many WRONG things about this situation. WERE YOU THERE when Mrs. Curtis was discussing this with the diocese??? Please tell, how are you so all knowing?

Do you know, FOR SURE, he wasn't telling others about his engagement? How do you know he wasn't bringing his lifestyle into the classroom. Are you a student of his??

My point is, you don't. You weren't there. You base these horrible accusations on rumors and your so-called complete knowledge of the Catholic religion. He resigned. He WANTED this to be a resignation. He is not fighting this fight. You and Fred are.

As others have suggested, maybe it's time to try another religion that is more suited to your personal beliefs.

Dcfred20036

Sanduskymom: I'm commenting on this article, just like everyone has been doing since yesterday. I don't know Brian personally, never have spoken to him before. But here is the thing, Brian chose to speak to the media-- on his own--and give his version of events: watch the extended WKYC interview in their website. My involvement in this matter has been, as part of the band alumni group, to help collect signatures for the change.org petition. Due to poor communication in the school's part -as they never return anyone's calls- we had no idea a new band director had been hired until we read about it in the Toledo Blade. By then the petition asking for Brian's rehire had been started, the blog was up and the rest is history.

sanduskymom

Oh Fred, your involvement has been so such more than just being part of the band alumni group helping to collect signatures. You made sure this story grew "legs," and you sacrificed the place you proclaim to "love" so much and their current students in the process. Do you have any idea how THEY feel about the situation? I'm guessing not.

You spoke to the media on behalf of alumni, when in reality, you represent a very, very small fraction of the alumni. I've heard plenty of them speak with opinions opposite of yours, but they aren't out there hijacking Facebook groups or creating blogs.

This issue is NOT about SMCC. Do you really believe they acted unilaterally in the decision to end Brian's employment? Really?? This is about the Catholic religion, and the Diocese of Toledo which asks employees to sign a contract agreeing to model the Catholic faith in their actions. Brian chose not to do that - and therefore, could no longer work there. No one thinks less of him - he's a great person (and I actually know him!) He knew his engagement would probably end his employment. A great sticking point seems to be that Brian wanted it to end at the conclusion of the school year, and the Diocese needed it to end immediately (as stated in the contract.) If you have a problem with that, take it up with the Pope. Change may or may not be coming, but one thing is for sure....it hasn't happened yet. You can provide all the Pope quotes you want, but there has yet to be a change in the doctrine.

Since you admitted yourself you don't know Brian, I find it interesting that you have taken on his cause. Why? How do YOU know the terms of his employment, or who knew what when, or how this situation was discussed by church or school leadership, or how finding his replacement was handled? YOU don't. I don't. So, how is it fair to request the president's "immediate termination" when you have no idea what REALLY happened? You have some news stories and some TV footage, but the only ones with the truth have NO obligation to discuss this personnel issue with you, or me, or anyone else.

Dcfred20036

Sanduskymom, three things I think you should know:

1- I have a pretty good feeling that the initial tip the SR about Mr. Panetta's firing actually-- oh my God, NO!-- came from within the school community itself.

2- The alumni group only found out about the real reason for Mr. Panetta's departure when a member with close ties to the school, a former school board member- posted the real reason. Yes, how about that! And anyone who is a member of the group then can confirm this.

3- The petition through change.org was started by another person. I simply linked it to the blog. Check it!

I did not give this story legs. Once the Sandusky Register published the original story, it was beyond question that it was going to go viral: any story of this nature does in 2014. And sure, I kept track of the stories as they appeared, so? Everyone who is interested in this matter has been keeping up with developments.

In the SR article I never claimed to speak for the band alumni group, and the Hire Brian Back blog has a disclaimer in it that it is not associated with the group. Read the article again, please!

When news of Mr. Panetta's departure broke, there was a heated debate within the Facebook band alumni community: Some wanted this kept hushed, some wanted details, others were outraged and wanted to do something about it, hence the petition...And many alumni members did sign it, their real names on record. The moderator of the group chose to let the discussion go forward. And, as they say, the rest is history. And there you have it.

John Harville

Methinks Sanduskymom thou doth protest too much.
You say "...the Diocese of Toledo which asks employees to sign a contract..." But the Diocese said the contract and its enforcement is a 'local issue'.
Again, you say "...the Diocese needed (the contract) to end immediately..." Again, the Diocese repeated the matter was a local matter and the Diocese doesn't intervene.
This cause is not about Brian and Nathan.
This cause is about people like you who claim to be good Catholics and Christians and yet in no way act like either. This cause is about putting individuals above Church and alleged faith. This cause is about a few people who spout Bible verses and 'Catholic Doctrine' with little or no knowledge of either.
When IS the last time you even opened your Catechism?

John Harville

Sandusky Mom... How do I know all that? Smcc student, Panther, other students, all manner of comments on this blog.
Do you know because he told you they HAVE lived together? My comment was that no one in authority or otherwise has said here that they lived together - which I brought up because it's one provision of the contract.
According to Sally Oberski at the Diocese, Mrs. Curtis didn't discuss it with the Diocese. According to my contacts at the Diocese, officials there were caught completely off guard - thus their original statement that it was a 'local matter'.
I don't really care whether he was telling others. The same as I don't care whether one of the elementary teachers is telling people about the church-defined adultery in which she lives.
I am not all-knowing... but I have explained previously about my connections to the Diocese, to their legal staffs, to the pedophile priest lawsuit and the work I did getting parts of it dismissed.
And yet you join the cacophony of people saying people who disagree should leave. Surely you know a Catholic is a Catholic for life - and I'm still in full communion.

sanduskymom

John - please enlighten us with who exactly these "diocese contacts" are. I find it interesting that they would choose to speak to YOU - a paralegal - who has absolutely nothing to do with this situation. Or, maybe you're just making up this so called "connection?"

And, you feel justified in saying you are all knowing about this situation because you read "comments on this blog?" Because someone here wrote "the school knew he was gay when they hired him" that it's the truth? Really?

John Harville

the Mollom Privacy Policy does not allow me to give names.
However, if you go to the Diocese of Toledo web page and look at the Organizational Chart you can find all sorts of contacts including (though I have not contacted him) Catholic Schools Secretariat Christopher M. Knight who ALSO is listed on the SCCS Board of Directors on its local website.
Sally Oberski was quoted in the SR article - she's Director of Communications for Diocese. I could go on but I'm thinking you might be capable of doing your own research - contacts.
And I didn't contact them as a paralegal - that would have been their legal counsel ShuLoop.
"absolutely nothing to do with this situation"? Really? It's good to know I can stop putting money in the offering at SP&P parish. It's good to know I no longer need to attend the parish festivals. Unfortunately, I cannot stop paying my taxes which with countless other Ohions help to contribute to the half million in state funding (at least) SCCS budgets (check the Foundation website).

sanduskymom

IF, in fact, you have spoken to somebody at the diocese about this situation (which, several times you have indicated as such,) I certainly hope they are relieved of their duties.

I don't even believe you are a member of SP&P, or make any contributions to the school or parish. I've come to the conclusion you're on here trolling for your own personal agenda, as it is quite evident you base your comments on rumors, a twisted view of the Catechism, and other hearsay posted on this site.

John Harville

Sandusky Mom... where did I say I am a member of SP&P?
As for your beliefs about my contributions, you certainly welcome to them. God knows and that's all that matters.
And my personal agenda would be... what?
How is my view of the Catechism 'twisted', pray tell - with specific items not broad generalizations.
"rumors...and other hearsay".
If that is what you believe, then stop telling me to take my money and beliefs somewhere else and, instead, contact the Diocese, the SCCS Board, Mrs. Curtis and insist they clear it all up.
BTW... they cannot hide behind their "private institution" when 13% of its budget (check the official website) is from "STATE FUNDING" (that would be taxpayers) not to mention other state and federal subsidies.
Have you asked the 'wonderful' President why no response?

John Harville

Sanduskymom.. "how do YOU know he worked for 5 years ..."

I give you Steve P "in fact he worked for 5 years while being open about his life style,"

sugar

Steve go back and reread the account, you didn't or don't understand.

Steve P

What don't I understand, its clear he violated his contract by violating church doctrine where it pertains to the sacrament of marriage. In the first article he understood that his decision would result in his lose of his employment, which is why he was going to resign at the end of the year

sugar

I guess some will be happy to live their lives with blinders on.

Steve P

And other ignore the facts..

sugar

And facts can be distorted, ask Babo he does it all say long.

John Harville

He was going to resign at the end of the year to keep the episode from exploding... his first concern was for the students and the school community.

Dcfred20036

Toledo Blade also has an editorial on the subject.

Matt Westerhold
sugar

Well written piece, thanks. Anyone who knew Brian, spent time with him, watched as he led and instructed the children would have no doubt that he was a great instructor and carried the love of Christ in his heart. I for one am tired of hearing about church doctrine, I've said this 2 times before and I am going to repeat it. You cannot fill your rectories with priests, your schools with sisters your pews with parishioners. Will this discrimination allow the church to die? We shall see.

chasf
sugar

No you don't but you do have to LOVE them and treat them accordingly.

Erie County Resident

As far as this topic goes...
Hold on a second I think I saw the dead horse twitch again get out the ballbat and beat it some more.
Time to let it go!!!

John Harville

EC resident: this horse has legs - and a herd of others with it. You should become a part of the solution by contacting the administration - you can find all the directors on the school website - and take whatever action is necessary - for the students.

sugar

This topic has created more comments than any other, have you been following? If not interested by all means follow another thread.

Dcfred20036

Here is what I think SR readers don't understand: this story may be "old hat" in Sandusky, but every day that passes the story moves up the "news food chain" and becomes a new story for readers in other parts of the country and the world, actually: The story is now in the UK. I don't fault the SR for continuing to cover this, as this is now a story of national interest. News is a commodity, like any other: supply and demand. And the SR would be foolish to not cover this.

John Harville

I just talked to a Catholic friend from Fremont who now lives and works in Monroe where Melody was. It's well-known there through national headlines. More to follow.

sugar

Please do!

Karma89

Again John Harville "IT WAS THE CATHOLIC DIOCESE DECISION, NOT MRS.CURTIS" Call the Diocese or go visit the Pope, I'm sure he would LOVE to hear from you!

John Harville

Again Karma89 IT WAS THE CATHOLIC DIOCESE WHO STATED IT WAS A LOCAL DECISION AND A LOCAL MATTER.
I have called the Diocese on three occasions. Sally stands by the 'local decision' statement. And that is borne out in other HR decisions in other Diocesan schools - like deciding who will be cut when 'reduction in force' is necessary as enrollment dwindles.
The Diocese does not have time to direct actions in all its schools unless it gets sued - which happened about five years ago (the teacher won).
I already contacted the Pope - but not about this - to wish him a happy birthday today. Godspeed Pope Francis - the last great hope for the Roman Catholic Church.

John Harville

Where did Cain find a wife when God sent him away?

I asked that separately of a priest and a Baptist minister.

The basic answer was the same. Cain married a sister - incest IS best, I guess. No one seems to have a clear Christian answer as to how we were propagated after Adam and Eve.

John Harville

Why didn't Jesus ever make any direct statement about homosexuality - the man who was followed by a group of men who were close friends.
And what WAS the relationship between David and Jonathan - even Catholic scholars think it was more than brotherly love by the ancestor of Jesus who committed two mortal sins - adultery and murder - and still was saved by God.

Babo

David was saved by God because he repented (acknowledged his sins) and sincerely sought forgiveness.

sugar

He read that in the bible...lol

Babo

Yes I did. A beautiful example is Psalm 51 also known as The Miserere: Prayer of Repentence.

sugar

Yeah it's kind of like when your 5 y/o says he's sorry so you'll give him a cookie.

John Harville

You'd like it to be that easy, wouldn't you BABO? You just condensed a whole segment of Biblical history into 15 words.

You didn't mention he repented AFTER the profit Nathan came to him and said God knew about his mortal sins. Of course, no one else knew about his sins so the king was not in danger of facing earthly execution. He knew Nathan spoke truthfully when Bathsheba's son died and his other wife turned his sons against him.
God had Samuel anoint David as a boy to be king. God had big plans for David. David had big plans to build the Temple. But God denied him that right. Then God hardened his sons' hearts against him. David died lonely and unfulfilled.
Many religion scholars opine the 'saving' was worse than would have been the punishment.

Babo

Gee John, why do you assume I didn't read the Bible in context? I directed Sugar to Psalm 51 to help her in her understanding of the Bible and Christianity. She's the one who appears to need some spiritual guidance and seems to admire your posts. Why are you attacking me and not helping her?

sugar

I certainly need no guidance from you. You are angry because your lie is exposed, so you attack and when I give it back to you, you become more angry. Hey I'm just having some fun!

John Harville

BABO... David didn't repent until he was told by the Prophet Nathan that he was going to be severely punished.
The Church calls that an imperfect act of Contrition - confession because of fear of punishment and hellfire.
David wrote the Psalm you mention to try to convince God he was repentant because he had damaged so many people.
Study your cathechism.

John Harville

WWGodD?
What WOULD Jesus Do now?
Well, David MURDERED a man so he could commit ADULTERY with the man's wife whom he COVETED.
And what did God do? Forgave him, let him marry more than one wife and have multiple children - and made him the MAJOR ANCESTOR of Jesus.
But along the way, Jesus' ancestor Boaz married the foreigner Ruth, a Moabite.
There was Jacob (whom God renamed Israel) who STOLE his brother's birthright, married two sisters and also had sex with their maidservants and produced 12 sons and a daughter - the sons of Israel becoming the founders of the Tribes of Israel.
And Jacob and his brother Esau were twin sins of Isaac who - with the help of Father Abraham - stole the birthright of his older brother Ishmael who was conceived with Abraham's wife's maid (later that would be called adultery).
Lessee: Isaac stole a birthright. Jacob (Israel) stole a birthright, bore children by four women - only two of which he was married and the others were 'sister wives'. then came Boaz with a mixed-race/religion marriage. And David - well we all know about ALL his sexual activities - who became a great King of Israel and a several-times (Read Matthew) great grandfather to the Savior of the world whose conception was in doubt among his own people.
And Melody Curtis is upset in the name of the Church because Brian wants to marry Nathan.
Run away Catholics. or stick around and force these people to act like the Christians they proclaiim to be.

sugar

I usually enjoy your posts Contango but you are dead wrong on this topic.

Contango

Re: "you are dead wrong on this topic."

How so? I merely put this situation in the bureaucratic context in which it IMO properly belongs.

How long did the U.S. military operate under the official policy of 'don't ask, don't tell'?

Again: Mr. Panetta was unaware of the potential risks when he sought employment with the SMSS?

IMO, for Mr. Panetta there is always the Episcopal Church, who according to my understanding has a more lenient attitude.

"If anyone will not welcome you or listen to your words, leave that home or town and shake the dust off your feet." (MT 10:14)

Also, as Mr. Westerhold so honestly has stated: his job is to sell newspapers.

With all the comments this incident has generated, from a business perspective he must 'milk' this story for as long as possible until exhaustion.

Babo

Excellent points.

However, what if a backlash arose against the SR by members of the Christian community i.e. people not buying the paper or patronizing advertisers?

Contango

Re: "backlash"

Understood.

IMO, it's undoubtedly a potentiality that the SR is willing to take.

John Harville

ABABO. A backlash from the Christian community? Doubt that. After all there are 'Open and Affirming' churches in and around Sandusky which welcome LGBTQs.
Many in the Christian community build their congregations from runaway Catholics - in droves - who long for congregations who have few rules, will entertain them with bands and bigscreen services. If anything, this story will swell the ranks of those churches. I'm fairly confident these articles have brought more sales to those Christians.

sugar

Still disagree, you can postulate all day long, still disagree and believe you are dead wrong. You don't always have to be right you know.

Contango

Re: "Still disagree," "dead wrong."

Good for you; opinions vary.

I asked: How so?

Nemesis

"I asked: How so?"

Contango, aren't you paying attention? Sugar doesn't want to think about that.

Nemesis

"Still disagree, you can postulate all day long, still disagree and believe you are dead wrong. You don't always have to be right you know. "

Translation: Stop trying to confuse me with facts and logic and reasons - I'm happy with emotion-based naked assertion, I've made up my mind, and the last thing I want to do is think or critically examine my position.

sugar

Look everyone not only is Nemisis the last word on faith and Catholicism he is now psychic too, he can read my mind. Another ticked off snob who has had his/ her entire little world blown sky high when finally at long last he/she is being confronted . Awwwwww

John Harville

Nemesis... so glad you finally admitted it.

John Harville

ConBabo.... how many people pay to be on this blog?

John Harville

Matt... someone is doing research outside Sandusky.

mjmnogoal

I am not from this area, but I live here now. I find it quite sad that this paper SR, decides to push it's views on it customer's. EVERY day or at least 1 time per week you having something about Gay rights, I just wish you would stop having articles about it. Regardless if you agree with someone's views, we don't need to see SR's views every day on one topic.

sugar

Are you kidding me????? No let's just post recipes.

John Harville

dear nogoal... You need to get out more. Sandusky likes to keep its collective head in the sand.
Key word is 'customers'. If you don't want to, DO NOT read the paper - there are others.
If you don't want to read the opinions, DO NOT read the opinions.
The Sandusky Register is to be commended...or should they not cover that Sandusky County story about the OHP cop who watched porn and masturbated with a young boy to 'teach him about sex'?
Yeah... let's just keep that covered up - especially since the Sandusky County Prosecutor thinks it shouldn't be prosecuted because 'the officer might be able to present a defense that what he did was okay'.

Contango

“That which is hateful to you, do not unto another: This is the whole Torah. The rest is commentary — [and now] go study.”

- Hillel

Dcfred20036

A HS band director getting fired in the middle of the school year would get reported by the local newspaper of any small town, don't you think? I have not seen anything in the SR reporting that promotes a gay-agenda: they simply reported the story as it happened and will continue to update their readers as it continues to plays out. Don't blame the messenger.

Centauri

Discussing politic and religion generate a lot of comments online. I have witnessed shouting matches and even physical assaults such as fist fights when discussing religion or politics.

Here are some links to generate more comments and discussion.

http://www.charismanews.com/us/4...
"A former activist in the gay rights movement who left homosexuality for a relationship with God in 2007 has drawn the ire of homosexual activists after marrying a woman on Oct. 26."

http://www.isna.org/faq/what_is_...
"Intersex” is a general term used for a variety of conditions in which a person is born with a reproductive or sexual anatomy that doesn’t seem to fit the typical definitions of female or male."

http://www.wnd.com/2007/07/42385/
"How a 'gay rights' leader became straight"

sugar

Threats now??? Things must be very dicey over in the boardroom at SCCS. lol. Stop trying to intimidate people for standing up for someone, who not one of you could hold a candle too, or standing up for a cause and up to bullies. More SHAME upon the heads of the Catholic community. Threats and intimidation are the ways of Christ.

Contango

Re: "Threats and intimidation are the ways of Christ."

Close.

"Do not suppose that I have come to bring peace to the earth. I did not come to bring peace, but a sword. For I have come to turn 'a man against his father, a daughter against her mother, a daughter-in-law against her mother-in-law--'" (MT 10: 34-35)

John Harville

"He who loves his father or mother...son or daughter more than me is not worthy of me..." - also from MT 10. So?

Dcfred20036

Centauri: I think reasonable people can disagree on this or any other related subject-- nothing wrong with having a honest difference opinion. After all, this article was an "opinion piece". The author offers his insight as a member of the Sandusky community. A respectful conversation is always healthy when it comes to hot topics like this, and it does not mean that anyone has to change their mid....but it can mean that we understand the issue a little bit better. I do.

Dcfred20036

Leviticus is often quoted as the place in the bible where homosexuality is an abomination, a sin. But he also goes on to say "And the man that commits adultery with another man's wife, even he that commits adultery with his neighbor's wife, the adulterer and the adulteress shall surely be put to death."--King James version. Pardon my indiscretion, but if we applied Leviticus literally across the board how many people would be left in Sandusky?

OSUAV8TER

Mr. Westerhold, the author said, "The saddest part, perhaps, is the school had the courage to hire Panetta nearly five years ago likely knowing from the beginning he was gay."

Well Mr. Westerhold, what IF they didn't know that he was gay? You're making your entire argument based on an assumption. As a professional writer, you should be able to formulate sound arguments. This is not a good argument because it is not based upon fact.

This well has been dry for a while, the Register needs to let it go. There's a reason why I don't buy their paper.

John Harville

OSUAV8TER "There's a reason why I don't buy their paper."

yeah, cuz you read it here for free - kinda like stealing, huh?

sugar

No SR don't report news because it makes some in the community uncomfortable, let's just cover up horrible misdeeds. Stick to your day job OSU you would make a lousy newspaper man.

OSUAV8TER

Look at you Sugar, trolling everyone's posts writing stupid stuff. Clearly you are a imbecile with a pretty pathetic agenda; trash talking everyone.

sugar

Post something that isn't trash than.

Dcfred20036

Newsflash: The president of Seattle's Eastside Catholic School has resigned amid the fallout from her decision to dismiss the school’s vice principal for marrying his gay partner. Read more:

http://www.hirebrianback.blogspo...

John Harville

The times they are a'changin'

Dcfred20036

I wanted to post this here too, so people could see it, in response to Sanduskymom's earlier rant:

1- I have a pretty good feeling that the initial tip to the SR about Mr. Panetta's firing actually-- oh my God, NO!-- came from within the school community itself.

2- The alumni group only found out about the real reason for Mr. Panetta's departure when a member with close ties to the school, a former school board member, posted the real reason. Yes, how about that! And anyone who is a member of the group then can confirm this.

3- The petition through change.org was started by another person. I simply linked it to the blog. Check it!

I did not give this story legs. Once the Sandusky Register published the original story, it was beyond question that it was going to go viral: any story of this nature does in 2014. And sure, I kept track of the stories as they appeared, so? Everyone who is interested in this matter has been keeping up with developments.

In the SR article I never claimed to speak for the band alumni group, and the Hire Brian Back blog has a disclaimer in it that it is not associated with the group. Read the article again, please!

When news of Mr. Panetta's departure broke, there was a heated debate within the Facebook band alumni community: Some wanted this kept hushed, some wanted details, others were outraged and wanted to do something about it, hence the petition...And many alumni members did sign it, their real names on record. The moderator of the group chose to let the discussion go forward. And, as they say, the rest is history. And there you have it.

sugar

Wonder how long it will take for the president here to resign!

Dcfred20036

Sugar- people closely associated with the school seem happy, at least publicly, with her and her vision for the school. All I can say is that I respect that. I will just leave it at that. Nite!

John Harville

Dc... obviously you are talking to different 'closely-associated with the system...'

And there is that contract clause that got Brian... that prohibition against 'publicly speaking' and taking 'public' action. Be not fooled. Donors already are withholding contributions.

MCES was 'happy' with her vision... until they weren't and she left after a year.

But you gotta do what you gotta do, blow the place up then walk away and leave it smoldering.

Thanks.

Dcfred20036

John- I'm reflecting reality. As I talk to people who still have ties to the school...well, how can I put this-- Okay, here it is: they seem more upset that the story got out. Denial is a powerful thing. You know when reading the Toledo Blade's account of all the things that happened in the Toledo Diocese, which St. Mary is part of, I come with the following impression: people's inability to absorb the idea that unjust things can happen within the Catholic community.

JohnDorian12

Bottom line, the guy signed a contract that states he must live by a specific moral standard and he broke the contract, so he got fired...get over it...he chose this not the Catholic Church

John Harville

Dorian... gray in the details. The contract doesn't state a specific moral standard... the Catechism doesn't even state a specific moral standard except to love those attracted to the same sex... and counsel them and pray for them and ourselves.
what part of the contract did he break?

Fordman

I feel the same JohnDorian12. The church has been around longer than any of us or TODAYS society. Catholicism was born from the Bible and what it reads and will always follow it. He did sign the contract and knew what the religion was all about, if he didn't than shame on him. If he would have respected their ways he would have never applied in the first place.

John Harville

Catholicism was NOT born of the Bible. Read it.
Catholicism was born of the Emperor Constantine who set the rules and the hierarchy - and killed Followers of the Way who did not agree with it.
Christ gave Peter the keys to the Church and Peter and James and others were leading 'the Church' until Paul fell off his horse and forced them to allow Gentiles and changed the words and thoughts of the Gospellers.
We weren't even 'Christians' until the Fourth Century.
But... go on...

sugar

Do any of you actually read these posts or do you just spout off ? Church will be around kinda like Ford in Sandusky, or the ever losing the battle UAW??

Dcfred20036

Sugar, the Church has to adapt or become irrelevant.

sugar

Fast on its way to irrelevancy.

John Harville

Too late. But we who love her still keep trying - much like in any holy marriage that is till death do us part.

Nemesis

"I think reasonable people can disagree on this or any other related subject"

Except that to disagree with Harville is to be valled a hateful bigot and other nasty names. Why is it that one side of this debate labels the other with a term for mental illness, but not vice versa?

"the Church has to adapt or become irrelevant."

Because God has to run for reelection?

Here's a hypothetical scenario and question, plus some follow up questions for you, Sugar, and Harville. I ask them because (to my best recollection) all three of you claim to be Catholic or at least Christian, and you all espouse an interpretion of God's view of homosexual conduct which is at odds with thousands of years of dominant interpretation of Scripture.

Next week, Jesus comes back, in all His glory, and standing there on a cloud, in a voice heard round the world, explicitly endorses the stance of the RCC and most evangelical denominations on homosexual activity - it's a sin and love doesn't mitigate it.

What's your gut reaction, should that happen?

I ask because, with most people who oppose religious teachings against various sexual and related practices (e.g. abortion) if you scratch deep enough, you'll find it comes down to denying God the authority to proscribe something that feels so good. Most of them don't realize that's the basis of their position unless pressed socratically to really dig deep enough, but at the core, most of the time, it comes down to a variation on hedonism.
Follow up questions:

1. Do you believe God has the authority to proscribe something that people really, really like, and are deeply driven to do?

2.If #1, do you believe God might actually do so?

3.If #3, how do you propose one should determine what God has proscribed?

4.With each passing generation, the number of people who deny the very existence of God, and who emphatically oppose the faith of others, increases. What, then, is your basis for believing the current generation is better qualified to discern God's will than all those in the past?

5. Throughout the Bible, one reads about those whose loyalty to God cost them wealth, popularity, and in many cases, their freedom or their life. Jesus said his followers would be despised. What, then, is the basis for the repeated assertion with regard to this editorial's issue that the Church must change and conform to the current political and cultural fashion in order to flourish?

sugar

I will stand before Christ and take whatever he doles out. You spout interpretation, my beliefs are in my heart, with a dose of intellect and common sense. No where in all my years in the church have I ever heard too NOT love another and treT another as I would desire. This man offered nothing but love and acceptance to the cCatholic community. Where is yours?

sugar

Lol I don't despise you but it is obvious you do me. Mostly because you cannot demand that everyone agree with you. You lost.

Nemesis

"I will stand before Christ and take whatever he doles out."

That's not an answer to the question, but whatever - I had low expectations of an answer from you and you met them.

"You spout interpretation, my beliefs are in my heart, with a dose of intellect and common sense."

No, they're all based on your feelings, and there's no intellect involved. This is evidenced not only by your refusal to discuss the issue at more than a kindergarten intellectual level, but also your attempts to shout down anyone else who is discussing it at that level. Your posts are like so many 5 year olds clapping their hands over their ears and shouting "la la la la I'm not listening!" People whose positions involve intellect are ready and willing to rationally support their assertions, rather than believing that repeating something enough times makes it true.

"No where in all my years in the church have I ever heard too NOT love another and treT another as I would desire. "

And now you're not applying the necessary reading comprehension to realize that no one here is asking you not to love another and treat them as you would desire to be treated.

"This man offered nothing but love and acceptance to the cCatholic community. Where is yours?"

I haven't offered a position on his situation. I'm merely exploring how you and Harville arrived at your aggressively expressed positions, and you've offered no evidence that yours was anything but an emotional knee jerk.

"Lol I don't despise you but it is obvious you do me."

I find you amusing and sad, but no I don't despise you. You, on the other hand are playing the part of the despiser well.

"Mostly because you cannot demand that everyone agree with you. You lose."

That's even more amusing - how can I be demanding that anyone agree with me when I have not offered a position with which they might agree or not? I can't lose because I'm not competing.

sugar

Such anger, this has really got you pissed off. Good.

Nemesis

No anger, only amusement.
Clearly, you didn't comprehend a word.

sugar

Your not amused you're seething with anger and arrogance. It's obvious. I don't really read what you post I pick up the drift, no sense reading all the garbage.

Nemesis

The only problem is that you're completely wrong on the drift every single time.

-You claim I want to shut down discussion when I've invited more discussion.

-You accuse me of positions I have not taken or advocated.

-You claim I want you to support my assertions when I said I wanted you to support your OWN assertions.

-You project that I'm angry when I'm grinning from ear to ear.

John Harville

Nemesis... sorry, I just saw this.
I'm interested in your portrayal of me - and of Jesus.
FIRST... God already has come to Earth several times since appearance among us as "Emmanuel - God with us". He didn't come on a cloud when the Biblewriters named him 'Jesus/Yeshua' (Gabriel proclaimed his name to be wonderful, counselor, etc.)
SECOND.. backatcha... what if from his cloud in a booming voice Jesus proclaims sexuality is determined at birth and further notes that marriage is an earthly matter ordained by Man (Matt 22:29-30 for in Eternity they are not husband or wife...)
THIRD... love is not a mitigating factor? "This I command you, that you love one another as I have loved you."
FOURTH... I teach my catechetical classes with a "God" Box. Its wrapped in white paper with only "God IS..." on the front. Each week students write on a piece of paper a definition they feel, heard at Mass, have been told, with which they have been reared. At some unexpected time we open the box and begin reading all those perceptions. It's not unlike six blind persons describing an elephant close up (I give them that story too.) They are fascinated at all the perceptions of God.

In answer to all your rather ridiculous questions I leave you with the two most important lessons I hope my students take away.

"FAITH is a journey, not a destination."

God IS.

Nemesis

"I'm interested in your portrayal of me - and of Jesus."

I've offered no portrayal of Jesus - I asked you questions, which you avoided answering, including one which had a hypothetical manifestation - that manifestation was meant in no way as a portrayal - it was simply intended to be an example of what most reasonable people would call an incontravertable revelation given simultaneously to everyone.

As for portrayal of you, all I've done is condense your own self portrayal as given in your many comments, which are been self contradictory, hostile to everyone, including those who were not disagreeing with you, rambling and unresponsive, filled with non-sequiturs and irrelevant quotes, and generally unresponsive. The only other conversations I've experienced like yours have been with angry drunks. You spout off about love, but your tone and rhetoric are hostile and adversarial, and that's coming from someone who is no shrinking violet when it comes to confrontation,

"backatcha... what if from his cloud in a booming voice Jesus proclaims sexuality is determined at birth and further notes that marriage is an earthly matter ordained by Man "

First of all, I consider the nature vs. nurture question irrelevant to the morality question. The Bible teaches that, because of the Fall, all people are born with a sinful nature, but that doesn't excuse the actions which it motivates them to take. I dispute the assertion that it's inborn because it flies in the face of basic evolutionary science (and here I'm referring to the sort of evolution that we can observe in action today, regardless of one's position on origins) but I wouldn't begin to base any position on the morality of a behavior on the genesis of the motivation to engage in that behavior.

Second, if the proclamation was an actual counter to the one in my hypothetical, i.e. that the behavior in question is not sinful and is equally pleasing to God, then I'd consider the matter settled. There - I answered - see it's not that hard, so why have you pointedly avoided answering my

"THIRD... love is not a mitigating factor?"

Not to everything. More importantly, I don't stipulate to your claim that a given approach or action you advocate is necessarily loving. I also don't agree with your implied assertion that love equals approval of anything someone feels strongly motivated to do. It would seem your theology boils down to no rules, just love, but without rules, how does one define what constitutes love? Anyone can slap a "love" label on anything they do, and call it good.

You see, John, I'm really not interested in arguing with you about the theological implications of homosexuality.

I object to your insistence that ANY church be subject to government interference or pressure from the secular popular culture in its internal governance, including who it considers suitable to be a role model for its congregants and their children. I know various people who send their kids to various religious schools that would dismiss a teacher for driving a car on Saturday, for consuming alcohol or pork, or a female teacher for wearing pants instead of a skirt or not covering her hair. While I disagree with those policies (I drove today and I really like spareribs,) I will steadfastly defend their rights as parents and as people of conscience to have and enforce those policies. While I hold our government's current policy of prohibition of recreational drug use to be an unconstitutional and fascist, I wouldn't want drug users teaching my kids, and I reserve the right to choose a private school that subjects its teachers to drug tests. At the same time, I have no objection if someone else wants their kids taught by stoners. It's the same way with this.

I also find problematic your insistence that a major religious institution reject roughly 5000 years of religious scholarship and revelation and follow the whims of pop culture. You've provided no sound basis for your position other than parroting some cynical atheist's deconstruction of the Bible*, all of which is equally applicable to the the proposition that there is no God, a proposition with which I don't think you agree. Your claim that a reversal on this tenet is critical to the church's relevance flies in the face of historical fact. Every single denomination that has adopted your views on the morality of homosexual conduct has been in decline from that point forward, and the two largest and fastest growing denominations take a position that makes the RCC look positively progressive. Then we get to Islam, with 2 billion followers,which is spreading like wildfire across the globe, with positively medeival views on the subject.

Why is it so offensive to you that our society has people and institutions who differ from you on where to draw the line separating sexual conduct which is morally acceptable from that which is morally unacceptable?

Finally, I find your little crusade counterproductive. It's my belief that everyone should find a church whose doctrines they can accept, and if they differ strongly, it's time to find a new church. The reason for this is because far too many people cling to a church whose tenets they reject, simply because it's the one they were raised in. They rob themselves of the sort of spiritual growth they could have in a church with which they were not at odds.

*Which, if we take at face value, means marriage is meaningless and gentiles are not fit to be Christians.

Nemesis

@Sugar:"Do any of you actually read these posts or do you just spout off ?"

Well, we know by your own admission that you don't.

Coram Deo

Another view:

https://bible.org/article/homose...

God in His grace has a plan.

John Harville

Coram Deo... you still have not explaiined how membership in your organization places you In The Presence of God (translation) more than the rest of us. It seems you strongly believe in Pray Away the Gay.

John Harville

DC which people who still have ties to the school?
Specifically employed by...
Parents of students...
Alumni...
Catholics in the parishes that pay nearly one-fifth of the total budget through their offerings and assessments?
Catholics in general?

More upset it got out! OH YEAH!
It threatens an aged and decrepit monolith that finds more of its base crumbling. Sandusky Catholic Schools have lost much of the prestige they once held. Mass attendance is plummeting - and the accompanying donations. School enrollment is probably less than 1/3 of what it was just a decade ago.
A few years ago when they decided they had to consolidate, the committee tried to rename the group "Holy Trinity" - and the uproar put the first large chink in the foundation.
In neighboring communities the story is the same.
Tiffin Calvert a few short years ago had two k-8 elementary schools with two classes in each grade as well as a thriving high school. Today they have moved P-4 in Calvert St. Mary's School and 5-8 in Calvert St. Joe.
Fremont was a bustling deanery with St. Joe Central Catholic HS, Sacred Heart (a new parish in the early 60s), St. Ann's and St. Joseph as well as St. Mary's in Clyde. Today the Bishop Hoffman Schools (named for a Toledo Diocesan Bishop from Fremont) have SJCC (you can't even imagine the uproar when they tried to make it BHCC), St. Joe (5-8) and Sacred Heart P-4). They even instituted Tuition-free months to keep students.
OF COURSE SCCS didn't want this getting out. they want him to go away and the story to go away. Interestingly, some of the people involved in this at higher levels are connected to Troopergate in the OHP. Actually a gay teacher getting married in 2015 seems even more petty.
But again... do whatcha gotta do. Sometime we should PM and I can tell you what the Blade didn't.

Dcfred20036

John, a side and related note: I got an email today regarding my blog entry, Real-Life American Horror Story, and it was from a former employee at Mercy. And she goes on to say that when she worked there as an English professor, employees feared that they would be immediately terminated if they spoke in public about the killer priest-- that Satanic ritual one. Interesting.

John Harville

I worked with Mercy sisters when the priest was arrested. They weren't allowed to talk either even though many of them knew her personally.
As I've noted elsewhere, the Fremont, Ohio Retreat Center in whose cemetery the Sister is buried, was shut down by law enforcement when her body was exhumed for autopsy. Media gathered in the adjacent Catholic Cemetery where Bishop Hoffman (Fremont native) is buried to film/photograph.

Steve P

John Harville 51 or 197 posts=25%, sugar 31 of 197 posts=15% between them, always in lock step in their comments 40% of the total comments.

John Harville

zaatall? Gotta step up my game.
This event is too important to the longevity of the Catholic religion in and around Sandusky.
Go into the churches and restaurants here and in other communities. Employees, parents, students are afraid to say anything not totally positive about the church and school.
Ironically, today is the 41st anniversary of the Roe v. Wade decision. In one area Catholic school students couldn't even ask for explanations.
Two students of which I know were sent home for inquiring about the history of abortion prior to 1973.
So, I'll try to maintain the count for you... you're behind... there are at least 217 posts - and I left before you counted.

John Harville

It woulda been more but I spent a little time on the thread about the State Trooper who shared porn and masturbation with a 12-y-o boy. Maybe you were too busy counting to notice that one?
...and THAT child-beating, wife-beating, SOB is STILL ON THE JOB!

sugar

Steve has ALOT of time on his hands. lol

Steve P

Correction, 33 comments, thanks for making my point, who has a lot of time on their hands and clearly no life?

John Harville

You're welcome. I will do all I can to keep the discussion moving.
....and not just in Sandusky, Ohio...

Ya see... I believe Jesus puts individuals way above 'rules' or 'doctrines' or 'contracts' or 'narrow minds'.
I try diligently every day to "Love one another as I have loved you." Jesus fully demonstrated in his parables, in his actions, in his remonstrances to the Pharisees (who among you would not take water to your animal if it thirsted on the Sabbath?)
John Paul II had the Catechism revised to bring the Church into the 21st Century). SCCS just set it back to the mid-20th.

Nemesis

John, I think you're forgetting a few parables, like the parable of the talents.

sugar

Yes I remember when they tried to bring the schools together and I remember who bailed who out, and who threatened and bullied about the name change when people spoke out. JUST LIKE NOW.

Dcfred20036

Alert: New York Times now reporting on this, links back to SR's original story!

John Harville

HAPPY BIRTHDAY POPE FRANCIS I

This man has done more in a few months than any Pope since Blessed John XXII

Long life and prosperity as you bring us into greater realization of the mission Jesus has for us.

Dcfred20036

John-- how do you know this stuff??! Interesting to read that in his time
the spirituals accused Pope John XXII of heresy, because he was determined to suppress their excesses. Maybe Francis will have an easier time, maybe not. Hard to give up the bling!

John Harville

Which 'this stuff'?
You mentioned the satanic murder of a Sister of Mercy. Nobody has mentioned the brouhaha at the RSM cemetery in Fremont, Ohio, when her body was exhumed and the media gathered in a connecting Catholic cemetery to photograph/film the event - the Catholic cemetery where the Bishop is buried.
I'm just aware of what goes on around me. I attend Sts. Peter and Paul to consume Christ in Holy Eucharist. But I've had a diverse career in six decades - and experienced the Catholic Church in most of its modern transitions.

John Harville

BTW Dcfred... it gives one a rare insight to be on retreat with a group of priests and witness these men frolicking in the pool in their speedos and other trunks, gorging on gourmet foods, insisting all the liquor be only top shelf and sitting in smoke-filled rooms paying poker.
It's even more interesting to be at a winetasting hosted by a group of nuns who have fine tastes in wine... or stumble upon them in their bikinis at the private lake on the convent grounds

John Harville

Gay Marriages Confront Catholic School Rules, via @nytimes http://t.co/whYfLRFx9Z

HERE IT IS. SCCS in the heart of the story with direct link to SR. Way to go SCCS and Diocese of Toledo. Congratulations beloved Mrs. Curtis... finally your school has made national news.

Dcfred20036

Here is an image of the front page article, as it appeared in print:

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-Q0d1NB...

John Harville

Thanks. I saw it. In fact six FB friends posted it on my newsfeed and it's on my timeline. Also sent it to the Diocese cuz they really need to know.

Other note: Some on here are saying Diocese sent someone to the District. Just need to note that SCCS Board member Christopher M. Knight, an attorney in Clyde, also is Diocesan Catholic Schools Secretariat according to the Diocesan Organization Chart. If Chris 'came' it was only about 20 miles.
One on here also said (which I apparently missed) that Brian was handed his letter during a basketball game that Friday.

sanduskymom

Sorry John, looks like you are "Brewing" up a story!

https://www.toledoblade.com/Educ...

Somehow the reporter forgot to mention that he's an attorney from Clyde?

doctorsRdrugdealer

Half of you people should go ahead and pray now!! In the name of the lord Jesus Christ Devil be gone!!! AMEN!

John Harville

God IS!

Dcfred20036

Maybe God is indeed returning back to the Diocese of Toledo...I think he was absent for a few years!

John Harville

One thing we teach in Confirmation is that God never leaves us...we just turn away.

I was taught by my Catholic Aunt that God has a golden thread around the heart of each Catholic. No matter how far the Catholic wanders, sometime God will tug on that thread and bring the Catholic back.

NOTE: in the same family I also had a 7th Day Adventist aunt, a Jewish cousin, a holy roller Protestant aunt, an aunt who moved her family to a Nazarene Commune, a Quaker aunt, a mennonite aunt, and even a Jehovah's Witness (from whom I never got a birthday present). I'm covered.

John Harville

have you seen the latest on the non-prosecuted pedophile OHP trooper? He was 'warned' twice that he was being investigated... follow THAT story and then please be a bit more outraged than you are that people are questioning RCC.

pigeon farmer

St Mary's protected Fr Dennis P Gray. Religion is dangerous.

John Harville

www.toledoblade.com/oldsaxolinks...

This is the story about the Oscar-nominated documentary about the man/men abused by F. Gray.

pigeon farmer

St Mary's protected Fr Dennis P Gray. Religion is dangerous.

Dcfred20036

Pigeon, is this the case you mean?

http://www.toledoblade.com/front...

People all this stuff is new to me-- I'm sick to my stomach reading about it. I don't think religion is dangerous, but secrets are. Evil always thrives on secrecy and indifference.

sugar

Very sickening , those poor defiled children. Cops, priests abusing our children. Wonderful.

John Harville

FINALLY DCFRed I found this post.
Yes. Dennis Gray is one of the saddest stories... but check the list of priests named in the RICO case. You might be surprised who you find.

John Harville

DCFred... Go here and get the link to watch the documentary that was nominated for an Academy Award.

www.toledoblade.com/oldsaxolinks...

Feb 27, 2005 · Like many Central students, he was drawn to the Rev. Dennis Gray. "Father Denny" was a tough-talking, ... Father Gray began molesting the 14-year-old

This just scratches the surface of the story.

John Harville

One reason I continue 'calling out' bad actions like SCCS.

https://fbexternal-a.akamaihd.ne...

Gays cause autism? This kind of logic is 'out there' - but it's also 'out here'/

John Harville

SANDUSKY MOM. I stand corrected, the Diocesan Superintendent of Education Christopher M. Knight is not the one about whom I conjectured.
Are you then verifying for us that THIS Christopher M. Knight is the same one listed on the SCCS Board of Directors?
Are you then verifying for us that THIS Christopher M. Knight is "the person form the Diocese" who came to tell Mr. Panetta of his termnation?

Dcfred20036

John-- two blog entries I posted today that may be of interest to you: 1) an Eastside Catholic student writes about the hypocrisy at the school- not all "sins" being punished equally .... 2) Speaking of timely, there is a movie coming out about -and get this- a music teacher fired by a Catholic School after getting married to another man. It has gotten very good reviews at Sundance. Google hirebrianback! for easy find.

John Harville

Amazing. And the school's president - a nun - resigned?
Don't miss the chance to see the documentary about F. Gray.

John Harville

Students at a Washington State Catholic school that fired its gay swim coach Mr. Zmuda when the President discovered he had married his male companion have organized a "national “Mr. Z” day, asking people across the country to wear orange on January 31"
Followup... the President of the School has resigned.

sugar

It's a shame that the community here is too frightened to speak out but they are. If parents of students spoke out their children would be bullied and ostracized by the school and by the good Catholics (and their kids) like Northstar, Karma, Sandmom, Nemisis, Babo. Bullying by this group happens over much less.

Nemesis

To Sugar, bullying means expecting people to support their assertions with something other than their feelings.

sugar

That makes no sense. I could give a rats a** if you support my assertions or not.

Nemesis

Do you even know how to read? Tell you what, why don't you read what I wrote again, and see if you can comprehend it this time, and then respond?

Pages