Change death certificate

Matt Westerhold
Dec 16, 2013

 

Sandusky County Coroner John Wukie needs more time. That's what the county's attorney, Dean Henry, told the Register.

“He has not had an opportunity to review the reports from the attorney general,” Henry said. “(The coroner's) investigation is still very much open.”

He has not had the opportunity? … Really?

Nearly 22 months after Jacob Limberios was shot in the head and killed, the coroner who doesn't appear to have investigated much of anything to date, suddenly needs more time to review Ohio Attorney General Mike DeWine's finding it was an accident?

More time? Really? It's imbecilic, but wait, there's more.

“I haven’t seen anything from the attorney general’s report that suggests anything in error from his original conclusion” Henry said.

Are you blind, man? Are you blind?

An accident is unintentional. Suicide is an intentional, self-inflicted act, according to definitions from the CDC Death Registration Handbook.

Only a lawyer could let those words slip from his mouth and believe them accurate — teasing the language to the point of questioning “what the definition of the word 'is' is?” The good doctor never examined the body, visited the home where Jake was killed or talked with the three people who were with him when it happened.

Henry is the Tiffin attorney appointed by county judges John Dewey and Barbara Ansted as legal counsel to defend the county in a lawsuit filed by Mike and Shannon Limberios. The Limberios family is seeking to force Wukie to correct the death certificate to remove the reference to suicide.

Dean Henry also is the former special criminal prosecutor assigned by the county judges to head up the criminal investigation, after it was already botched-up by Sheriff Kyle Overmyer. Henry was fired from that role, however, by a visiting judge who called out local officials on the obvious conflicts of interest in letting Henry serve as both defense counsel and criminal prosecutor.

It seemed a blatant attempt to “fix things.” It's good it failed.

But Henry remains defense counsel in the lawsuit seeking to change the death certificate, and he picked up right where he left off in June when he was removed as criminal prosecutor, peddling an indefensible defense of the indefensible way the county conducts investigations of Jake's death.

Henry picked it back up right where he died in the road as criminal prosecutor in June, defending Wukie's indefensible “conclusion.” Wukie failed to preform the duties of coroner and his conclusion was wrong — that's documented thoroughly— in DeWine's report that was released weeks ago.

Every command decision made by Sheriff Overmyer was a bad decision, from word go, beginning with the destruction of a lot of physical evidence on the very night Jake was killed.

Attorney Henry and Dr. Wukie might not know the definition of the word “is,” but the meaning is pretty apparent to most. This dynamic duo won't ever be able to reconcile an accident and call it a suicide, and most everyone knows that, too. It's the equivalent of a mathematical impossibility only with words.

That's the drag, now, however, according to Dean Henry, Dr. Wukie needs more time.

The family has deep concerns with problems they see in DeWine's investigation — categorically flawed in critical areas — but the conclusion this was an accident seems to be what most everyone believed from the start, without needing to know who might have been holding the gun when it fired.

Raise the white flag, already. Wukie and Henry need to get real. Give it up. Change the death certificate. Negotiate a settlement and move on.

 

Comments

JERRY from SANDUSKY

Sandusky County needs to get rid of him
1 is not worth his money
2 how long does it take you read report when you're not busy

What a loser

Ithink

"Doctor Wookie"- have you been under a rock? I mean, I know you did not go to the scene of a gunshot victim; did not order an autopsy on the said victim; allowed evidence to be destroyed; and relied on shoddy police work to base your 'professional' opinion when first writing out Jacob Limberios' death certificate. But NOW you have to review the case? With all disrespect, you, sir, are a moron.

Simple Enough II

Why negotiate a settlement? Hey Matt, Would it be fair to suggest that you and the Sandusky Register have openly sided with the famly? The Grand Jury says what? It was a self-inflicted gunshot wound, he (Jacob) knew the weapon was loaded, he was in control the firearm, he suffered a gunshot wound to the head, not to the foot, not to a finger or hand but to the head.

So Matt Again, what does the death certificate say? Was it "accidental/suicide" or something along those lines?

Now let us go back to the settlement comment? Are we talking money? Money for what?

donutshopguy

My guess is that the county will stonewall this request. A change in the death certificate will be an asset for some lawyer to sue. Really, isn't that what this is all about. It's got to be someone's fault and they have to pay.

mikesee

Matt, are you a medium?

White Owl

Dean Henry defends Sandusky County officials. He will make no "admission" that may lead to a finding of liability against his clients.

While I understand in Layman's terms that an accident cannot be a suicide. There are certain actions in law that are so reckless that those acts become intentional actions.

An example of this is driving under the influence of alcohol and killing someone. The driver didn't "intend" to kill someone but his actions in driving drunk are so reckless and create a reasonably foreseeable situation that someone could be hurt or die that the law views the driver's actions as intentional not an accident. Similarly if a grossly drunk and depressed person drives his car off a bridge is it an accident or suicide?

I think Dr. Wukie believes the actions of Jake Limberios (taking a loaded gun to a drinking party; while being treated by a psychiatrist and likely under the influence of a prescription drugs; and, holding the loaded gun to his head while talking on the phone) are so reckless to such an extent to create a reasonably foreseeable act that the gun would discharge resulting in a "suicide". In fact, another Medical Examiner said there was precedent for such a finding. Thus, Dean Henry has a legal basis to argue that the Death Certificate will not be changed.

I've repeatedly argued the Limberios family will not find their answers in the state system as that system will protect its own. Again, the unanswered questions for me are did SC LE intentionally botch the investigation or are they just that incompetent. Also, did Dr. Wukie, Prosecutor Stierwalt, and Dean Henry intentionally help cover up LE misconduct or are they just protecting incompetence?

IMHO, the answers will not be found in State court but by requesting a federal investigation into official misconduct or by filing a federal lawsuit.

Ithink

While I agree that this matter needs to get out of the state and move onto the federal level, your statement about the Jacob having a gun at a 'drinking party' has no merit, since Jake was not drinking. Also, psychiatric medications are meant to stabilize one's thinking- not impair it. Strike 2.

Simple Enough II

I disagree, Sorry for the famalies loss, but their son killed himself. Time to move on, they have a grandchild to raise or not.

White Owl

The fact is there was drinking at the party and Jake knew there would be drinking at the party. It is inherently reckless behavior to have a loaded gun at a drinking party regardless of personal alcohol consumption. I'm sure gun enthusiasts would agree that guns and alcohol do not mix. Thus, this factor has great relevance to a legal analysis.

Secondly, it is a fact that Jake was under psychiatric care and prescribed psychotropic drug or drugs for a condition or conditions that the family has chosen not to disclose. Yes, some psychiatric drugs are meant to "stabilize thinking" (which suggests Jake may have been bipolar, or ADHD) but these drugs have serious side effects, are subject to abuse and do not provide guaranteed results. It is the fact that Jake had a psychiatric disorder(s) that required medication that again is a strong factor that could support a finding of extreme recklessness or depression in legal analysis that would support Dr. Wukie's finding.

Finally analogizing serious legal questions and issues with baseball doesn't help your argument. This isn't a game and there are remaining issues of official misconduct that need to be addressed if this is truly about justice for all.

Simple Enough II

So tell me, what outcome did we have after the state AG took over had their investigation and grand jury? I see nothing new other than the investigation shows that the fire arm was what could be a straw purchase, maybe the purchase of alcohol and the parents allowing their son to own and handle firearms illegally (he was under 21 and lived with them and new he owned them). So who are we going to blame?

Centauri

"IMHO, the answers will not be found in State court but by requesting a federal investigation into official misconduct or by filing a federal lawsuit."

I agree 100%

donutshopguy

Wow ! You want this three ring circus to move to a federal level. If you don't receive the answers you want at that level are we going to ask beings from another planet to intervene ?

Lil DAB

Remember the names:
❄Wukie
❄Steirwalt
❄Overmyer
❄Dewey
❄Ansted
❄Henry
...come November elections if their names are on the ballot!
Thank you, SR for keeping the fire lit under these "blind" "Imbecilic" "Morons."
Justice➍Jake

Simple Enough II

So we still hold Sandusky County officials responsible for Jacob's handeling of a loaded firearm or are we still of the mind that someone else pulled the trigger and Sandusky County officials are in some kind of massive cover up of killer X?

Sal Dali

They would be the incompetent ones responsible for not conducting a proper investigation with an autopsy from the beginning. They are not covering up for killer x they are covering up for themselves. Voters also want to make sure those election signs are in legal locations...ha!

Lil DAB

Of course they aren't responsible for the handling of the firearm...but they ARE & SHOULD be held responsible for doing THEIR jobs. And they didn't. If the "responsible" county officials had not allowed the destruction of evidence, clean-up and performed procedural interrogations; and had the coroner even showed up to do his job - they could have avoided the perception of ineptitude they brought on themselves.

White Owl

Probably most readers agree that SC LE and officials were at least grossly incompetent bordering on official misconduct. But investigating official misconduct was not the purpose of the grand jury. The grand jury found Jake shot himself and made no findings concerning the actions of LE and officials.

The legal-medical finding on cause of death is made by the coroner. It is changed through a coroner's inquest not through a grand jury proceeding. Has the family requested an Inquest?

Now the grand jury's findings are relevant to an Inquest but the grand jury was not qualified to make a legal-medical determination on cause of death. Only the coroner can make that finding and at least one ME has stated there is precedent for Dr. Wukie's initial finding based on Jake's extremely reckless (and illegal) behavior. Thus, it is unlikely he will change it.

Again, if the family and supporters truly want to hold SC LE and officials accountable (and I think they should), they have to request a federal investigation of official misconduct through the FBI or the USDOJ Criminal civil rights division. The Governor can also file official misconduct charges against the Sheriff and prosecutor.

Frankly, IMHO the family's legal approach has been doomed to fail from the start. The considerable political pressure the family can muster through the media and social networks ought to be brought to bear on Congresswoman Kaptur's office, the FBI, and the USDOJ. Posting about it on the internet won't change anything.

whattheBucks

Wukie is pure wackie !! This pompas loser dont want to change this because it will just prove he's wrong. He has botched this from the word go, when can he get voted out ? I wonder if he would be this big of an a$$#ole if it was someone in his family. He has got to be the worst coroner in the state, get a new job wackie, cause you $uck at this one, I dont even think you would be good enough to be a wal mart greeter

Ithink

WOW! Donut, Owl, and Simple (how appropriate) are so far out in left field (oops, there I go again Owl) that one may begin to wonder how close their relationship with SC LE is. The fact that psychiatric medications have no guaranteed effectiveness and may be accompanied with side effects, etc.. is invalid, as ANY and ALL medications can be placed in the same category. I am sure if Jake's doctor thought he was having adverse side effects or suspected abuse, he would have changed and/or stopped the drug. Tylenol can also have adverse side effects and be ineffective for some people. Maybe any person on ANY type of medication should not be allowed to possess a firearm. I hope a cop never gets a headache and takes acetaminophen while on duty. Again, if you 'people' are tired of reading about this case, 'move on'. It will not upset J4JE or their supporters at all. Really. You can leave the field. 'Dr Wookie' seems to have already done so, so follow your leader :)

White Owl

Your alias is a misnomer because you don't "think". Why would I support a federal official misconduct investigation of SC LE if I had a close relationship with them?

You appear to be too emotionally involved in this story to make rational arguments. It is the fact that Jake had a psychiatric disorder severe enough to warrant medications that is legally significant. If his mental health problems are not significant then the family ought to disclose his diagnosis and the medications prescribed for him to counter Dr. Wukie's findings.

But I have a feeling his diagnosis and the meds are significant and that the family doesn't want to accept these factors and maybe their own responsibility. After all, many here have questioned why parents would allow their son to possess a gun (illegally apparently) especially in view of his mental health issues

Again, my desire is to see an official misconduct investigation of SC LE and SC officials to determine whether there was intentional malfeasance or just incredible incompetence which was never addressed by the Grand Jury or AG. Either way, the Limberios family was mistreated but they have to be prepared to accept that there may be a legal basis for Dr. Wukie's finding.

If this is truly about another family not having to suffer mistreatment due SC LE and officials then their focus ought to be on that issue IMO.

Simple Enough II

White Owl, no connection with SC LE or otherwise. Just tired of folks trying to place blame elsewhere than where it lay.

White Owl

My reply was not directed to you but to "IThink". It was he or she who suggested we (you and me) had ties to SC LE. In some respects, I share your fatigue.

However, I do feel the Limberios family was severely mistreated by SC LE and SC officials handling of the initial investigation and delays.
In the interests of good government and accountability, there ought to be federal review of the performance of SC LE and SC officials so this type of abuse does not happen again.

Simple Enough II

My mistake. I apoligize. Maybe, maybe not, yet I don't think a court or agency not of the community would be very helpful, probably more restrictive. Go to a county commisioners meeting and voice your disapproval.

White Owl

Apology accepted. My experience with county commissioners leads me to believe they will receive worse treatment.

The only agencies with authority to investigate official misconduct are the US Dept. of Justice, FBI and the Governor. The Governor has authority to file official misconduct charges against a County prosecutor and sheriff. Politically, that might be their best option.

Also, you raised a another valid factor (the video record of unsafe handling of the firearm) in the recklessness/intentional act legal analysis that might support Dr Wukie's finding. Thus, I don't see Dean Henry advising Dr. Wukie to change his finding until a court orders it changed or the family agrees not to sue for damages.

Centauri

"The only agencies with authority to investigate official misconduct are the US Dept. of Justice, FBI and the Governor."

Excellent comment. I agree.

Ithink

Ironically, with your name, you'd think you'd be a little wiser. You seem to have a lot of opinions for someone who is not 'too emotionally involved'.

White Owl

I comment on topics that interest me. My opinions are based upon my educational background and life experience and meant to help people not hurt them.

I sincerely wish the Limberios family the best and empathize with their plight. In my opinion, they need to reassess their legal strategy, public relations efforts, and if they have not done so they need to obtain counseling both spiritual and psychological.

Simple Enough II

I reserved my opinion when it came to taking medications, so please don't try and align me with that thought process. My point was and still is, what different outcome did we have? Oh, yeah wait, we have experts who reviewed video of Jacob handeling and firing this handgun (atleast I believe it was the same handgun) and doing so unsafely, which contradicts what friends and family say.

Centauri

"Oh, yeah wait, we have experts who reviewed video of Jacob handeling and firing this handgun (atleast I believe it was the same handgun) and doing so unsafely, which contradicts what friends and family say."

QUESTION: Is the video available on the internet for all to see?

Simple Enough II

Not sure, that video and those who were tasked with determing his handeling of the firearm was mentioned I think in the article ran in the Fremont news-messenger with the state AG's & the special grand jurys closing of the investigation. I wonder if the photo in this article is of the same video clip? I think the State AG's office did a fine job with the investigation etc. , but at what cost? The outcome didn't change did it, and now we hear the family isn't happy with the investigation or ruling?

Julie R.

There appears to be a lot of idiots in Sandusky County, including, but not limited to, idiot judges. They ALL need to be kicked to the curb, right along with Wukie and that court-appointed clown attorney Dean Henry.

Julie R.

The clown attorney Dean Henry says (quote) he hasn't seen anything from the attorney general's report that suggests anything in error from the original conclusion.

Matt Westerhold then says (quote) only a lawyer could let those words slip from his mouth and believe them to be accurate ......

That was toooo funny. The 100% truth, but still funny!

mikesee

Whats funny is a second rate editor slamming a lawyer that is questionable.

Commenter

White Owl, you make more sense than most I have seen.

Ithink

One word from Wookie would have prevented this whole mess. One word from him could close this whole ordeal so people can move on with the healing process. One word, that's all.

Ctwhalers

Can anyone of you prove jake was holding the gun that shot him. Just cause ag says so is not proof

Informed

There is absolutely no evidence that this was a suicide. An accident, yes. Suicide, no. It needs to be changed to accidental self-inflicted gunshot.
And there should be a lawsuit for incompetence in this whole mess.

Sam

From the beginning we were told this was only about what they tell his daughter. If the coroner's office does change it's ruling it goes from; he was troubled and took his own life too, he was careless and or reckless causing his own death.

donutshopguy

Sam,

This whole circus boils down to money. No one has proven this to me otherwise.

MoonBaby

NONE of this would be happening if Sandusky County did their job from the start. Overmyer botched this and it filtered from there. If you followed from the beginning and read all transcripts and reports you would see it was botched. Then they realized their mistakes and worked to cover them up and every step from there was just one idiot after another covering for another idiot's mistake. The AG simply followed that process. Rarely will they differ from original jurisdiction findings. They did however say it was not a suicide. They also stated that because of the poor job from the start they had no evidence to examine. Gives them very little to work with when Sandusky County walked in, laughed over a dead young man about clean up, believe a story from 3 drinking young adults, and went about their merry way. Arrogance and pride are trumping morals. No one is beyond making poor choices. They should own their poor choices and admit them.
Now, I am very sure someone is going to post "Jake made poor choices". Yes he did. I don't recall his family ever claiming he was a saint that never made poor choices in his life. I have never read anywhere or at any time that they blame Sandusky County for their son's death. They blame them for not doing their job and for not collecting evidence. Overmyer and his band of incompetence also behaved in a pretty disgusting manner while they were at the scene not doing their job. Apparently it was fun and humorous to them to laugh about "clean up" rather than collect evidence. Later O'Connell even came to the conclusion that Will accidentally shot Jake. He wrote it in a letter (read it if unaware). That suddenly puts them on the spot; an "oops we messed up at the scene. Cover this up and fast" situation. It snowballed further and further. They are elected officials. They are in positions where citizens are supposed to be able to trust their standards and morals. They have failed and continue to fail. Every single one of them that continues the lies and every moment each one of them keeps quiet rather than own their mistakes and try to correct what they can. So, even if it would be about money in addition to the certificate change, so what! At this point and after this long of the bs from the county they deserve it. The county made this situation escalate to this level. As for anyone saying the Limberios family should get over it and move on, would you if this were your child? Would you if you had the run around from the county after all this time? Would you be ok with no investigation or collection of evidence? I know I would not. If the county is afraid of a lawsuit at this time it is because they know they brought that upon them by their poor choices. If they would have said they made a mistake and re-investigated right away, or investigate since there wasn't much of an investigation to begin with, this would not be happening today.

No, I am not related to the family. I do not personally know any of them. I just have compassion when others are wronged by those that abuse their power positions. I find it disgusting that anyone would be so heartless as to think they are ridiculous for the need for truth and for county accountability. Those posting nasty comments should reflect a bit and imagine if it were your child, your spouse, parent, best friend. Wouldn't you go to the ends of the Earth for answers and justice? As for the Sandusky Register, at this point I applaud them for slanted journalism in this case. At least the Register and Matt Westerhold are brave enough and have morals to stand up against county corruption and defend a family suffering through it.

mikesee

and USA never landed on the moon.

Jmschmidt812

You're right, he made poor choices as did the person or persons who bought the ammo for him. He contributed to his own death, as hard as that may be to deal with he did. There would be no need for an investigation had he just left the gun, ammo or both at home.

MoonBaby

So you are saying that it is completely acceptable that elected, paid officials did not do their job? Wonder if you would feel the same if there was an accident involving your family member. Are you saying Jake and the Limberios family do not deserve county officials to do their job because you feel he did this to himself? That is like saying if one of your family members decided to drive on a foggy night and got hit by a drunk driver it is fine. I mean, they made the choice to drive on a foggy night. Maybe that is a stretch but my point is that the county should do their ob regardless of circumstance and personal opinion.

Jmschmidt812

Your scenario is completely irrelevant and has no correlation to this case. People going out doing normal everyday activities is completely different than what happened here. Now if the drunk driver died as a result of the same accident, he would have contributed to his own death while doing something illegally. That scenario is more along the lines of what happened here. And I agree that SCSO botched this investigation, so they are to blame for a that. However, this young man contributed to his own death wether he pulled the trigger or not. There is plenty of blame to go around in this case and ALL those involved should be held accountable. I mean all the way down to the person who bought the ammo for him.

MoonBaby

I also do not mean any disrespect to your opinion btw. I just firmly believe that the officials of Sandusky County failed. Regardless if this could have been prevented by Jake not taking a gun to the location. It does not matter when it comes to the subject of Sandusky County officials doing their job, which they did not do in the slightest.

Centauri

The vast majorities of people committing suicide are done in private. By that I mean that the victim commits suicide when alone.

Some decent readings about suicides:

http://www.hsccs.org/poc/view_do...
"We have a clearer picture of the number of completed suicides, although some accidents may still be mistakenly considered suicides and vice versa."

http://www.hsccs.org/poc/view_do...
"Suicidal acts seldom occur spontaneously. Rather, they are typically planned and premeditated events triggered by a chain of stressful internal and external circumstances."

http://www.hsccs.org/poc/view_do...
"Defining Suicide"

http://www.hsccs.org/poc/view_do...
"This introductory document discusses suicide; the taking of one's own life. It is intended to educate readers about the nature of suicide."

http://www.hsccs.org/poc/view_do...
"Some suicides are the result of the side effects of prescription drugs, or combinations of prescription and recreational drugs."

http://www.hsccs.org/poc/view_do...
"Suicide Triggers"

There are many links within the above links that I have posted.

Nor'easter

Is the real issue the difference between indemnity and triple indemnity payout on an insurance policy? Most litigation is easily understood of you "follow the money".

White Owl

Excellent point. "Follow the money" is a truism in law as is "Listen but watch their feet". In other words, they may say one thing but their actions seem to indicate another direction.

Ctwhalers

Money issue has nothing to do with this why do you keep bringing this up.

CONCERNED MOM

Maybe he doesn't want to change it because he knows he didn't shoot himself, I do not know anyone associated with this but, I must comment with all the evidence fingers should not be pointed at this boy killing himself, something happened bad in that house that day and its a cover up. As a mother of three I would not stop to find the truth, family should fight its there right, they need to bring in a psychic in my opinion. The kids stories have so many different versions of what happened leads me to believe he did not kill himself. Sorry to say.