Our government's secret war, secret Senate vote, etc.

Tom Jackson
Jul 31, 2013


Want to know who the U.S is at war with in the "war on terror"? Sorry, nobody can tell you. It's a secret!

ProPublica, the "journalism in the public interest" Web site, wanted to know exactly which groups the U.S. is at war with. The Pentagon told the reporter it couldn't answer the question, citing "national security."

The Senate Select Committee on Intelligence voted recently to approve President Barack Obama's plan to supply Syrian rebels with U.S. weapons. Want to know how the senators voted? Sorry, that's a secret, too.  (Apparently, none of the members of the committee are from Ohio.)

There was apparently a big massacre of prisoners in Afghanistan in 2001, but ProPublica can't find out any details, because the White House won't release any. 








The Hero Zone's picture
The Hero Zone

While I do not believe in a class system (outside of D&D), if there were two classes in America it is the political class and the rest-of-us class. It is infuriating. I understand the concept of Top Secret (and enjoyed that Val Kilmer spy comedy) but there are perceived, uncorrected-otherwise, swathes of information/power being grabbed up under otherwise altruistic big nets.

How can you compel private citizens to enter into private contracts with private companies under the ACA? Well, you are going to at some point engage in commerce, so we have the power to force this relationship.

How do you explain unauthorized or unknown expansions, selective interpretations, or breaches of the Patriot Act? At some point we are going to be attacked, so we have the power to force this gathering of info.

None of this is tin foil hat stuff, either. There is a pronounced disconnect between many in elected position (at least nationally) and their constituents. The worse part is that incumbents continually are re-elected! Has the Congress really ever changed over the past 20-40 years? If Jeb and Hillary run we apparently as a nation can't escape that 30 year old time dump either.

It's infuriating. Where's my subsidized blood pressure medication? I think I need one...


Re: "rest-of-us class."

In Orwell's "Nineteen Eighty-Four," there were the party members and the Proles.

IMO, we are the "Proles" (Proletariat).

The more secretive the govt., the further we are from the society our founders envisioned.


I agree, Contango. The Patriot Act gave our government Carte Blanche to be as secretive as they want. As a card-carrying Republican, you must be very embarrassed that it was enacted by a Republican president. One would think that the tea party folks, who are always complaining about assaults on the Constitution, would be upset that the Patriot Act was a 180 degree shift on how our country viewed the 4th Amendment...


I'm not a card-carrying Republican, but I would call myself conservative. And I wasn't embarrassed when the Bush Administration used the panic immediately after 9/11 to get the USA PATRIOT Act passed (with the help of an overwhelming majority of Democrats as well). No, I was INFURIATED!

I don't agree with much of anything Barack Obama said either on the campaign trail or from the bully pulpit of the White House, but I DID agree with his promises to at least curb the USA PATRIOT Act. Instead, he used and abused it, and expanded upon it. Are YOU embarrassed? Or, like me, just INFURIATED all over again?

The PATRIOT Act is, sadly, neither a Republican nor a Democrat thing. It's a POWER thing. Much of what's in the PATRIOT Act has been on a DOJ "wish list" for YEARS. That pesky Constitution kept getting in the way, and those annoying judges kept ruling that it should! Well, the PATRIOT Act solved a whole lot of those pesky and annoying problems for the powers that be, didn't it?

I can remember any number of people (including me) warning that future administrations would take advantage of the powers of the PATRIOT Act. I think I rest my case...


Re: " I agree (snip)"

And so Comrade, weren't you pleased to see that the PA and the NDAA were enhanced and renewed under our great leader, Pres. Obama for the increased safety and security of the Motherland?



And people thought that the NSA was just collecting mindless phone data. This is bigger and more worse than anyone could imagine.

The National Security Agency is operating a massive database system that allows analysts to scour individuals' emails, chats and Internet browsing histories at will, according to a new report from The Guardian based on leaked documents.

Read more: http://www.foxnews.com/politics/...

The Big Dog's back

Infuriated enough to vote for bush a 2nd time in 2004.


How do you know how I voted, Big Dog? Do you have some sort of secret access to the government databases you love so much?

But since you ask, the fact of the matter is that I DIDN'T vote for Bush in 2004. The lesser of two evils is still evil, after all...


Re: "I DIDN'T vote for Bush in 2004."

I lived for 25 yrs. in IL where the POTUS is ALWAYS predetermed.

I've voted Libertarian since 'at least' 1992.

The Big Dog's back



we the people thats who they are at war with


Some good news in the fight against the Obama Admin.'s war on the American people.

"U.S. Spy Program Lifts Veil in Court;

Justice Department Says Prosecution in Terrorist Cases Must Tell Defendants When Surveillance Program Was Used"


And to cause all this panic, all Mr. Snowden did was to tell the press that the U.S. was spying on it's own citizens?

The Big Dog's back

snowden is a disgrace. Treasoness glory hound.


"The Public-Private Surveillance Partnership"

"The government uses corporations to circumvent its prohibitions against eavesdropping domestically on its citizens."


IMO, an interesting article.


I have been alot of places and have seen alot of things during my time in the USAF. Is the USA perfect? Of course not, nothing is. But I will tell you this, it is still the best place to live on Earth. In most countries you could not attack Obama or Bush the way we do here. You would be in prison or put to death. When I came back from Iraq, I actually kissed the ground once on American soil!


Thank you for your service, bucknut36!

Your military background doubtless makes you more appreciative of this country, and that's not a bad thing. Your willingness to defend it isn't too shabby, either. :-)

The truth, however, is that whether or not this country is still the best place to live, it's not anywhere as near as good as it USED to be and it's getting worse. If we don't change tacks and SOON, we're going to be a whole lot like a whole lot of other places. And I don't hear you calling any of THEM the "best place to live on Earth" for a reason!


Re: "In most countries you could not attack Obama or Bush the way we do here."

Give the Political Ruling Class time.

According to the PA, THEY get to define who is and who is not a "domestic terrorist."

And who are the members of the FISA Court? Don't know - secret.

The Bill of Rights are based on "natural law," NOT the law of men.

"Rights" come from God, NOT govt. The only thing govt. can do is to protect them or deny and restrict them.

The Big Dog's back

If all this stuff you say were true, you would've been counting spiders in Gitmo a long time ago.


When I got home from Moody AFB in Ga.I kissed the ground after I crossed the Ohio River !