Opinion: Ard wants residents to pay more

Matt Westerhold
Jan 30, 2013

If Sandusky city manager Nicole Ard's Q&A for residents during her quiet community input meetings over the last week is any indication, there's a tax levy heading your way if you're a city resident. 

Question: Would you be willing to support a taxing initiative, such as a public safety initiative to provide adequate police/fire services? 

Huh?

I can't recall city commissioners discussing a potential tax hike in any public meeting in 2012, or so far this year. Perhaps I'm not understanding the question, which is part of a series of strangely worded questions. But what else might a "taxing initiative" be, if not a tax increase?  There's no doubt, in my opinion, that Sandusky city commissioners Julie Farrar and possibly Jeff Smith will support a tax hike, but I doubt there would be much other support on commission for one. 

It might be better to determine whether city residents already provide "adequate" funding for "adequate" police and fire services. It might be better to hire a police chief and ask him or her (yeah, right) what changes could be made to reduce costs and improve services. It might be better to determine whether three-day work weeks for police officers is an "adequate" and productive use of city resources, or whether it's a surrender to union demands. It might be better to determine whether a part-time roster of firefighters could reduce costs similar to the $775,000 reduction the city of Huron accomplished with the addition of a part-time staff. 

Finally, it might be better to elect a mayor rather than hire a city manager who thinks a tax increase is the way to balance the city's budget. 

Click here to see all the questions Ard listed out for all the residents (two or three, maybe) and city staffers (more than two or three)  who attended the meetings, and decide for yourself: Were these questions designed to get honest input from residents, or were they really crafted simply to avoid the real work that needs to be done?   

Comments

T. A. Schwanger

If I recall correctly, when Farrar and Smith ran for City Commission, both answer a resounding NO to a direct question whether they would support an income tax increase. Of course this was before the idea of relocating City Hall once again rasied its ugly head and is at the top of the to do list.

An income tax increase for safety sevices, which failed miserably in the past, is what is termed "creative financing" in the world of Municipal Finances.

Here's how it works:: A 1/4 percent income tax increase for safety services, etc. will generate approx. $1.5 million dollars per year which in turn would free up $1.5 million dollars in existing incoming City funds to finance the relocation of City Hall.

Funny how failed proposals to increase the income tax mirrored dated attempts to relocate City Hall in 2009 and 1990.

wiredmama222

I should have seen this coming and didn't. You and yours are at it again, huh? Trying to frighten the people of this community into believing that people that certain people on the city commission WILL raise the taxes? When are you going to announce that you plan on putting the elected Mayor or Elected City Manager program back on the ballot?

I had heard that was a possiblity why not just be up front about it instead of doing what other communities are doing and try to frighten people into believing what just isn't so?????

Did Ms. Ard actually SAY that there would be a tax increase????? Was that statement made for SURE???????? Was it a completed statement for absolute certainty????? Or is this entire thing just a "suppose we have to IF????

T. A. Schwanger

@ Wired::::::Talk about reading something that's not there.

If you have not read the PDF attached to Mr. Westerhold's blog, I suggest you do so. All indications are an income tax increase proposal is in the near future. In fact, there are four bullets within the PDF where the survey asks if you as a resident would be willing to pay higher fees and taxes for City services.

Do you believe in 'deja vu'? The year was 2009 when then City Manager Kline threatened to close fire stations, close the golf course and greenhouse, and lay off fire and police personnel, and street crews unless residents approve an income tax increase which failed miserably.

History is about to repeat. Question is, who is pulling the City Manager's strings?

wiredmama222

REALLY? And are you and yours not saying things that are not yet evident? It seems to me that no matter WHAT Ms Ard says or does, you and yours are going to find fault, make it worse than it seems and find ways in which to be sure to make "history repeat itself" only to be sure to have your "elected Mayor or City Manager" get passed this time.

I would much rather you all come right out and say this is what you are planning than to go about it any other way. Why not be honest, straight forward and above board about it, than to play these games to discredit Ms. Ard this way to be sure she is summarily dismissed at the right time.

Come, now, Mr. Schwanger! Not all of us out here in Sandusky are that slow that we do not see the handwriting on the wall of what is going on here. Some of us a little more "up" on what we see is happening, listen with ears a litte more in tune with the music and see with eyes more clearly.

You are referring to things happening all the way back to 2009? Why go that far back. Referencing need not go back that far when some of your friends and co horts on the commission have made no secret that they are unhappy with Ms Ard's performance in 2011. Even the SR has made no secret in the paper with that. So lets not insult the intelligence of ALL the citizens of the city with anything other than the pre amble of what this is all for. An attempt and lead up to get the citizens ready to see another vote for an elected Mayor or City Manager coming up. Would you deny that is not the case?

And to answer your question...no, I don't believe in deja vu when there are other, more obvious causes for such things as what we are being fed at the moment.

Even if Mr. Westerhold is doing the feeding, I still watch what I eat.

Bada Bing

Moderators have removed this comment because it contained Personal attacks (including: name calling, presumption of guilt or guilt by association, insensitivity, or picking fights).

Bluto

I guess those poor slumlords will have to pay then .

Perkins2060

Why is it the SR deletes posts that contain truthful facts about the percentage of housing that are rentals and metro in the City of Sandusky? You want the truth? THE SANDUSKY REGISTER CAN'T HANDLE THE TRUTH!

Bluto

Not everyone who rents is a leech . Poor landlords are as just to blame as bad tenants . I have seen property owners let their property go when they are not occupied to the point that the grass is six foot tall , and never make repairs to attempt to make the place more attractive .

Bada Bing

Moderators have removed this comment because it contained Personal attacks (including: name calling, presumption of guilt or guilt by association, insensitivity, or picking fights).

Bluto

All I'm saying is that if landlords checked references our neighborhoods might be better . Landlords sucking at the metro teat makes the problem worse . The rental by me is owned by an out of towner who only shows up twice a year to cut the grass or to show the place to another tenant . They don't even clean the yard before showing it . The fix should start with root cause.

Perkins2060

But yet the SR leaves the posts up that bash the property owners. Liberal rag at its finest.

Speakezy

Tim... that sounds just like the lottery/casino money at the state level! Its a trickle down screwing!

Darkhorse

Trickle down screwing is correct. No one can live within their budget. They always have to be asking for more money to do things and not how they can efficiently do things. It is all about the City Hall move and the downtown, nothing else matters and the rest of the town is let go to help themselves. Don't people understand that there are families who are struggling and everyone wants a tax levy from them. The entities have got to be out of their loving minds.

wiredmama222

No, this is about getting rid of who they want OFF the commission and getting the right people ON it before too long. Then getting the elected Mayor or elected City Manager.

twosenseworth

I attended and participated in the first community input meeting. In my opinion, the agenda was designed to imply that without establishing other funding resources to replace the missing estate taxes which are gone in 2013, along with other lost income revenue, the city will, at best only be able to perform at a sub-par level. City Manager Ard, who's starting salary began at $127,000 per year, fails to include other revenue factors as part of her program, such as the hundreds upon hundreds of city taxpayers who presently are not paying their fair share of property taxes based upon what they own within city limits. During the community meeting, a graph of city income revenue sources indicates that a much larger share of funding for the city comes from its income taxes, but it cannot be forgotten that property taxes also contribute money into the city coffers.

It is my belief that similar to the recent school tax increase, those citizens who manage to pay their fair share of property taxes are ultimately penalized for doing so, by being assessed for additional funding to offset what isn't being collected. As an example, in the case of local school system funding, property taxes account for the lion's share of money collected on behalf of the schools and again, when property taxes are not being collected from every shareholder, those who are paying are expected to simply pay more to offset the shortages. It's an unfair system at best.

The operation of the city is no different, as they too depend upon various taxation formulas in order to function. As expenses continue to increase, it becomes painfully necessary to either live within your budget or shift the focus on collecting additional funding through the income tax. Similar to the property tax method of taxation, those who pay income taxes will be expected to pay more to offset those who pay nothing. It is safe to presume that the first services to be penalized, without adding more funding to the tax base will be police and fire.

I urge every citizen of Sandusky to plan on attending one of the remaining community input meetings, so you will be adequately prepared for what lies ahead.

Bess

TWOCENTS-
“Adequately prepared for what’s coming” what’s that? Do you know that taxes are going up? Are we really paying Ms Ard $60 an hour to develop a questioner or, hire a police chief? The entire questioner in power point may be telling but still a waste of City finances. At $60 an hour I believe Ms Ard should find efficiencies, and eliminate fraud, waste and abuse. Perhaps this is more difficult than just looking for additional funds to operate but we pay her handsomely to do the hard work demanded.
Where were the commissioners when this questioner was published? If they are supposed to oversee the actions of the City Manager then it is there job to ask the questions posed above.
I have been to City Hall. I understand and empathize with staff and management that would like to work in prettier office space. Then again, they are working. Let the City staff help Ms Ard save money and be grateful for their employment.
Westerhold opines “Finally, it might be better to elect a mayor rather than hire a city manager who thinks a tax increase is the way to balance the city's budget.” We had an opportunity to change City government structure, was it two years ago? Sadly it was defeated. There are new City residents talking about a change. Regrettably I did not go to their meeting and today I find I lost the invitation.

twosenseworth

@Bess~
City ordinance 11-116 dated December 2, 2011. Section 3(A): Compensation. My crystal ball has gone hazy this morning, as I cannot confirm to you that taxes are going up. However, it's relatively safe to presume that unless additional funding becomes a reality, city services will be forced into change that no one wants.

wiredmama222

Well, I knew you would be back as soon as the time was right. See, it all makes sense now. Her comes the people they need to make this complete. Here comes the people to scare us and make sure the Schwanger group is up and running for the move to have the May or November group ready to get that initivitve on the ballot. Oh, yes, the ELECT the Mayor or City Manager group is back on line.

twosenseworth

@wiredmama222
Thank you for the sincere welcome. I, like you, am entitled to express my opinion on this subject or any subject for that matter, and that's what I did. If you read the second sentence of my commentary, you would notice that I used the expression "in my opinion." That means that in my opinion, I see things a certain way while you on the other hand, may not agree with me. That's fine, because we live in a democratic society where there's a good chance that not everyone will agree on a given subject. Likewise, it's your given privilege to disagree with me. I'm good with that.

wiredmama222

@twosenseworth....I was speaking to Bess, dear, not you. Sorry if you took my sentences to mean YOU. I have no quarrel with what you say. None whatsoever. In fact, I don't recall ever having read anything you have written beofore this. So please take no offense in what I had written because it wasn't meant for YOU at all. I will gladly read your pieces anytime, anywhere with much enthusiasm and take them for what they are worth. I am sure they are worth reading. As you say, they are YOUR opinions as mine are mine. Bess, on the other hand and I have a HISTORY.

Bess

Really Wired what is your problem? Neither Tim nor I have written anything on this blog “to scare” anyone. If you were scared it must be because there is something about you that is threatened by any change in City government.
I believe it is reasonable to project that very few residents of this City read any of the SR blogs. I only look at them when there is some interesting (to me) topic. Seldom do I find the time or have the inclination to talk to myself by posting. Today’s editorial by Westerhold I found of interest. I also find that Ms Ard can better spend her time than producing such a Questionnaire.
As for the piece by Westerhold, I was drawn to it because it was informative. I read through the Questionnaire and came to the same conclusion he did. Half the questions are directed at “paying more” for “better service”. How is that to be interpreted? Ard is asking if her participants are willing to pay higher taxes.
Ahhh yes Wired... the elected city manager that your ferociously blogged against may be back, or an elected mayor. Whether it will be done by November is not certain but I hope it is changed and the sooner the better. P.S. I do remember that some time after the Elected City Manager petition failed you blogged that we “the supporters” were right. I couldn’t forget that.

wiredmama222

Ah, yes, Bess. I am sorry, but I cannot accept that you have found NOTHING interesting until now to "blog" about. I sincerely find that hard to swallow. Knowing the other items from previously dealing with you and your "friends" and having heard such wonderful things of late about the anticipatory challenges that seem to be forthcoming in perhaps May or November, your friends and collegues have planned such another go round with the same item again. I wondered how long before you would be back on here. And here you are. So forgive me my skepticism.

Funny that it coincides so neatly with what I have been hearing: the planning of another round of getting that elected city manager or city mayor on the ballot again. You people ARE persistent or tenacious shall I say. I will give you that. I guess your thoughts are 40% gives you a thrill. But at any rate, misconceptions of the possibility of raising taxes (yes, misconceptions) is pure nonsense. Stating so is PURE CONJECTURE. It isn't a statement of FACT at all and you and TA Schwanger and Mr. Westerhold know it. Its and OPINION. Nothing more. You are doing it to insight fear and upset. Nothing more, nothing less.

Ms Ard has been under the gun since the first week she got here. She hasn't had a friend one. Between the paper. Two specific people on the commission and a couple of people in this community who have tried everything to cause her grief, she has had to put up with a great deal. If the woman doesn't give direct answers to questions I do not blame her.

Why should she talk directly to the SR....to ANYONE at the SR. Her comments are twisted, her statements misconstrued and her general demenour questioned at every turn. She has been backstabbed by those she works with and treated like a red headed step child by others instead of with any sort of respect, while some demand respect for reporters. That is just a laugh when those same people show no respect for her.

This entire town should really look in the mirror, including you and your group. You are right back at it. You just cannot stand losing. You still want YOUR GIRL in there. Well, I will state this again. There is another, even if you win with this "elect" thing. It will not be a shoe in. Not for her. Just so you know. Believe it. But you may have a problem. And he HAS credentials that your girl does not.

What I cannot stand is the sneakiness of all this. The underhandness. You can all say you are not doing anything that you are simply "saying' that you are pointing out that history may be repeating itself and taxes are going up.....etc. But what will you all say when you get ready to put this on the ballot again? What lie will you tell then? What excuse will you all use then? Why not tell the truth now?

No, you have to do it this way. You have to create some fear first, get Ard fired, create an atmosphere to keep some council people and THEN get your program on the ballot.

Some of us are already wise to it all. What a shame the truth doesn't stand up first.

Bess

Yes wired we do have a history but only over the elected city manager initiative. I wanted it passed and you did not. I do not know what is being planned or discussed because, as stated in earlier piece, I did not attend the meeting I was invited to and I cannot find the invitation. As for any “misconceptions” it seems to be you that espouse them, for we are quite aware that Ms Ard, as a City employee cannot raise taxes on her own. She did however ask about that in the Questionnaire that was published – facts are facts. It seems you fear the threat of altering the City’s form of government but I doubt anyone else does. Here is conjecture: I believe that better than 65 percent of the City’s population does not know, nor do they care, how City government operates. They care about police and fire protection, clean and maintained streets, and clean water.
As for “Ard has been under the gun since the first week she got here.” She knew as she arrived there was the pending petition to change the form of City government that would have left her without a position (lots of money but no position). If she has issues with City employees then as “the boss” she is responsible for addressing that. As for her relationships with others, respect is earned. I doubt she is friendless here though because she seemed rather personable when I ran into her recently. It is not difficult to understand that you can like someone on a personal basis but disagree or oppose their positions, here the questions asked related to “willing to spend more”.
As for “YOUR GIRL” I heard she is no longer interested in any City position.
It is odd that you believe we cannot “stand losing”. It seems to me we moved on after the Elected City Manager ballot was lost. When I wrote of the invitation it was not from Tim but from citizens I do not know. I support a change in the way the City operates and I suppose those that sent me the invitation because they knew this. I have never held another position on the change in City government and have been quite open about that so “sneaky” really? If a new petition is circulated I will certainly help with signatures. If any ballot initiative passes to change the City form to Elected City Manager or Mayor it will not be to get Ms Ard fired. Surely if she wishes to stay in Sandusky employ she might in some capacity. Advice to you – get a grip accept that just as you have opinions, others do as well.

wiredmama222

If one reads...and I do, you and your committee have already exposed what you intend to do. There was a "your 2 cent" letter in the paper discussing the matter of the elected position again and that they had a 40% the last time. I am sure that you and yours are ready, willing and able to put either Tim or perhaps Sharon into a position of leadership if not the last lady you had in mind. But I will lay even money that the item comes up in November for a vote. Since Tim can neither "comfirm or deny", which is the oldest political trick in the book, the matter, that makes me even more convinced that this is what is going on.

I don't fear the "elected" position but only who will fill it. Again, I will state that your people will NOT run alone. I can promise that one. The person I know will run against your "in mind person' will a great deal of credentials behind him and a lot of "class" besides. He is not one to play games either. He won't fold easily and he is a pretty strong leader...lots of experience in that field. Also very knowledgable and capable of handling situations. So whoever you are thinking of, they will have a fight on their hands.

I am sure the people of Sandusky, as I do, want a safe and clean environment in which to raise a family. But I will tell you this. The way certain people around here have tried to get rid of Ms Ard is going to come out....oh, I know a great deal about this. And it will not come out in the SR....it will go elsewhere for exposure. I can also guarantee that one. People will not like it. Those involved will not be happy nor will the people of Sandusky. Its a rotten thing to do to someone. I do feel sorry for her. Really sorry.

And I need not get a grip. My grip has been in place for some time now. I just wonder how much of a grip you and yours will have now that you know some of us know what has been going on. There are about 20 of us who know. That should leave the ones who are doing this a little shaken. You can take that back and report it. Yes, we all have opinions....just as you do, so do we.

Bess

Really? I didn't know the SR published blog comments in the SR editorial pages. If there is a person the leaders of the movement have in mind –if the City government is changed - I am not aware of it. You see Wired, the failings of the Commission form of government have a long and flawed history. As I said many times in the past “there is no accountability.” With an elected Mayor or City Manager we, the citizens, would have a person that would have to answer for any transgressions. That is my position. This is not about Ms Ard. I only repeat this because you seem to, over and over again, defend her. I really don’t see the point of it.
You mentioned you had someone who would run in November, a “classy” person if memory serves me, with credentials of some variety. If he/she wants to be the one accountable and wins any future election – given there is one – I’m ok with that.

wiredmama222

Do you NOT read the paper? Under "your 2 cents"? My goodness, you should start reading it. Very informative. It was in there. All about the last time the elected office for City manager...blah, blah, blah. Ask Mr. Westerhold. Call and ask him. He will tell you it WAS in there. A letter to them about it.

Oh, I hope you will honor that one statement. I will hold you to it for sure. You can always look up and see what I wrote, Bess.

It's easy to see what the person just wrote who you are answering. The comments are right above where you are writing. Just look UP. Yes, the person has class. And credentials. You make it sound like something bad. Does that bother you? In short the class means they don't fight like a "gutter rat" and they don't act like a back door thug. This person isn't a back bitter either. This person would have NO problem with accountability and would make darn sure the commissioners be accountable as well.

This person certainly wouldn't take a bunch of "crap" from anyone either. Which means what they say, they mean. Taking a bunch of nonsense from a bunch of people or putting up with a bunch of nonsense from people who only THINK they know what to do ,isn't a high priority on their agenda of making Sandusky a better place to live.

They care more about Sandusky growing and moving forward than you could possibly imagine.

I am sure there is going to be a future "election" and that Mr Schwanger and company are just treading water until they can roll it out again. If you want to prove me wrong, I am more than willing to admit it. I don't happen to think I am.

I will bet it comes in November or by the latest, next May. I am betting November election you will see it on the ballot if not before. And I am betting that Schwanger is the one who wants the job. Since you say "your girl" doesn't want it any more. (which I still am not convinced is true..but who knows). If not Schwanger....I bet its Sharon or even you or perhaps Poole. But it will have to be one of you. Just waiting to see.

I could get rich betting on this one. I am not, and I repeat....NOT worried about the changes in government as I am in who it is doing the governing. That is what worries me more than anything else. I like my government to be OPEN, ABOVE BOARD and HONEST in what it does. Not the back door kind that isn't interested in the honesty factor. That is what scares me to death.

my oh my

I would support an increase if the quality of all city services would improve and the city would take a proactive stance on issues rather than being proactive...

SamAdams

I will not support yet another tax increase for any reason, under any circumstances. With all of the city dollars going out the door to conduct still more studies, pay legal fees or legal judgments, and a City Manager some $60 an hour to write junior high questionnaires, there are plenty of places the budget can be tweaked. Further impoverishing city residents isn't that place.

I'm in complete agreement with twosenseworth. Those who already pay into the the city coffers are rewarded with nothing but more government thievery. Those who don't pay aren't penalized (or it takes forever to get anything from them).

STOP IT. The more you ask for, the more likely it is that people who are already less than thrilled with the direction of the city will give up and move out. I'd frankly be on my way already if I could see a way to do so right now! Some things just aren't worth it, and I'm becoming more and more convinced that Sandusky is one of those things.

wiredmama222

This is all artificial nonsense. Reread this article carefully. Did Ard really say she was going to raise taxes or are they trying to make you believe that???? This is all written to make you believe that she did. This is another attempt at pushing the people in one way....get rid of Ard to move in another person.

wiredmama222

If this is allowed to even get passed being allowed to remain, I will be shocked as most things are removed. I hope it is allowed to remain as it is simply an OPINION>>>>>>>

I really thought that the purpose of ANY newspaper in the country was to produce an HONEST and above board news outlet, complete with unbiased and relative stories that gave the citizenry the daily news. That the people of any community could count on that newspaper to give a daily perspective of the news of the day. That it would fairly and completely give them an idea of what was happening in the world around them. To basically tell them about the issues that were happening around them so they knew what was going on

But that entails responsibility by the paper and its staff. It begins with the editorial staff and the reporters that go out into the community and report the news that is happening. It does NOT include sensationalizing it, adding additional comments, taking license to which you are not entitled, or making a mockery of the truth. It means that you fairly, honestly and ACCURATELY tell the citizens of what is going on in their community.
'
Even if you state you "opinion" you do so with some sort of restraint and not make it as if it were the headline of the day. You do not do so with the idea that it will frighten and hurt them. That went out with Orson Wells and the "War of the Worlds". I thought even the lowliest of jourlest knew that one. How shameful it is when jourlists use their power to "hint" that something may happen when it may or MAY NOT, knowing full well it will insight something very very upsetting to cause the end of means. When the editorial staff of any newspaper allows themselves to become so politically involved in the city in which they are supposed to be unbiased, it fails to remain unbiased, it is time for a PUBLISHER to take a good long look at what is going on.

Perhaps that is what is needed now.

SamAdams

Okay, Wiredmama, I'll bite:

How do you know taxes aren't going to go up (or at least the request made to do so? From all appearances, Ard would LIKE to see them raised. Just look at the questions!

In my mind, the worst part of all this is the same problem we have with property taxes: The massive rental population (not to mention the vast welfare machine recipients) votes just like the rest of us, only they don't GIVE a dam* about taxes because they don't pay any. Every tax increase is decided in part by those people who are perfectly happy to spend other people's money, and would be even happier to have more of it.

And it's all overseen by a government (true at ALL levels) that's too big, too expensive, and far, FAR too powerful.

wiredmama222

Whether a property is rental or not it still has property taxes on it. Those taxes are collected based on the value of the property and paid by the person who OWNS the property, not by the renter. The person who owns the property is still responsible for the property and the taxes and passes those taxes to the renter through the cost of the rent each month when they figure in the rent each month. It is part of the monthly rent. So I don't see how ANYONE could fear whether a piece of property is rented or owned. The property still has a property tax on it.

As for how I know that the tax isn't going up. Did Ms Ard SAY it was definitely going up? Did she say so? Look at the paper and at the statements in the newspaper. I call your attention to what the paper says: OPINION: It does NOT QUOTE her as saying that the taxes were going up. It says clearly that it was Matt Westerholds opinion that they would go up based on what the questioneer said. No where in the answer does it say that she definitely said that. Not one time.

Also, the explanations you have been given by others such as TA Schwanger, etc., are based on what happened back in 2009 if you read what he said. Never once does he say that she says they are going up. Let me remind you he is one of the people who wants to get an elected Mayor or elected city manager and they want to bring it back on the ballot again. There was a guest editorial to that effect to two weeks ago. These tactics are nothing more than to scare us all into believing that Ms Ard is going to raise are taxes. When SHE tells me taxes are going up, then I will believe it. Until then, I won't. I do not take the word of another for anything like this. If I am not mistaken, does the city commissioners not have to VOTE on this before they can raise our city taxes? They cannot just RAISE them by saying so. I, for one, intend to find out. Wouldn't you want to know? Or do you intend to just take the word of the SR for that and believe and OPINION?

T. A. Schwanger

I can neither deny nor confirm a change in government or the way the City Manager is seated will be placed on the ballot in the near or distant future.

I can not for the life of me understand how you have come to that conclusion based on my opinion regarding an increase in the income tax unless you have been experimenting with a Weegie Board, Tarot Cards or Crystal Ball.

A word of advice: Please Please research---the income tax can not be increased without the vote of registered voters. However, based on past experience with Sandusky Community Surveys similar to the one currently circulating, an income tax increase ballot issue is eminent.

Can we get your opinion on the need or reason for an income tax increase?

wiredmama222

First of all, I find it insulting that you would say my conclusion for a change in government came from a "weegie board, Tarot cards or a crystal ball". Give me some credit for using my mind based on what I have seen in the Sandusky Registers stories, heard from people we mutually know and from what I have seen and heard elsewhere. Surely you can be more honest than "I cannot confirm". LOL That is such a typically political answer....

As for my answer....it will be direct. I do not agree with raising taxes nor do I feel the need to do so at this time. I feel a budgetary revamp and cutbacks should be the first order of business. The commissioners should have done so FIRST before doing anything else. The problems with the way this commission is set up is that no one is minding the store.

If the commisson was set up more efficiently, the budget wouldn't be such a mess in the first place.

Any good budget managment starts with cutbacks when there is a problem. No tax increase would be needed. If I were in charge that would be my first order of business. I wouldn't be increasing a tax until such time as I exhausted each and every cutback I could impliment starting with my OWN salary cut. There would be NO raises for anyone and that includes city workers. Anyone "double dipping" (those receiving retirement funds and salaries) would have to go. I would replace them with lower paid workers.

But my LAST order of business would be a tax increase. You cannot always go back to the past and expect to look at the "hand writing on the wall". Sometimes you have to move forward and do something you have not done before....like make progress!!!

You and your friends are looking at 2009. This is 2013. Try re examining the BUDGET. Try moving toward changing things within the budget FIRST. You know as well as I do that there are grants and assistance programs to be had out there that can help LONG before you resort to raising taxes.

You also know that renting or rental properties in NOT the problem in this city.....its lack of buisiness and wasted land. YES....wasted land. Wasted land is that which brings in NO tax dollars such as PARKS. This city needs land that brings in valued tax dollars and land that pays us back....industry. JOBS.

So NO, I do not want to see taxes raised, but they do not need to be. Not if the people on that council sit down and redo the budget, cut some corners and THINK about the spending they are doing. This is not a fancy community. Make some cuts. Stsrt with the big salaries. I would ask the big salary people to make a sacrifice. They should understand. If not, then they should go....contract or not. So should the double dippers.

T. A. Schwanger

My reference to proposed income tax increases in 1990 and 2009 was intended to show how the City held tax paying residents hostage in each instance threatening cuts in police, fire and street crews, closure of the golf course and greenhouse if the income tax issue failed while at the same time moving forward with the relocation of City offices--not an inexpensive proposition.

George Santayana, who, in his Reason in Common Sense, The Life of Reason, Vol.1, wrote "Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it."

By the way. Whether or not you want to admit it, there are enough votes on the City Commission to move forward with relocating City offices.

wiredmama222

Please, Tim, do not use the tired old quotes of an old phrase to try and tell me what I already know. I told you EXACTLY what I would do and why. Now if you cannot accept that, then I don't know what to tell you.

You and your "friends" are hell-bent and seeing that the taxes are the only thing that matter and that they will raise. Is that not the case? You cannot accept any other managed plan? You and yours WANT the taxes to go up. You see that as the final straw in your plans to make a case, do you not???? That would be the final nail in the coffin so to speak?

Why play these games with the lives of the citizens of Sandusky? Why do this?

The moving of City Hall at the point in time is NOT a good idea. Whether or not there are sufficient votes to do so is irrelevant. You don't want that to happen, then speak up at a meeting. Why tell me? I am not yet on the city commission where I can do anything about it. If I were, my vote would be no. The city cannot yet afford such a luxury. Not in these economic times. Sorry. My vote would be no.

By the way....I am running in November for a seat.

AJ Oliver

All you folks are missing the big picture. State support for local government is being drastically cut. (See info below on Erie county from Policy Matters - 2011 to 2013 fiscal year differences) This is being done by a state government that is deliberately destroying local governments' abilities to function - everything from schools to libraries to police & fire to recreation and forrestry are all on the chopping block.
The problem is that we as a society are no longer willing to require the One Percent to pay its share. So yeah, I'll all in favor of a steeply progressive income tax increase.

•Schools…………………………. -$11.0 million
•County…………………………… -$4.3 million(including county undivided fund)
•Erie County Parks…………….. -$97.0 thousand
•Public library…………………… -$179.0 thousand
•Margaretta Township……….. -$125.0 thousand
•Perkins Township……………. -$430.0 thousand
•Huron City …………………….. -$101.0 thousand
•Sandusky……………………….. -$431.0 thousand
•Vermillion……………………… -$155.0 thousand

Fromthe419

I now this is off topic a bit, but today's Norwalk Reflector's lead story was Edison Local Schools putting another levy on the ballot in May. It seems the counties, schools, cities and every other agency is going to the voters with their hands out. I'm sorry but enough is enough, I had to take a pay decrease in 2008 and haven't seen a raise in 4 years. I can't afford more taxes, everyone is going to have to do more with less, that's what I've had to do in my household. Our government says inflation is low, tell that to my wallet. Time to pull in the belt and learn to live on what ya got, you ain't getting anymore from me...or I'll be on the system with my hand out.

wiredmama222

AMEN everyone should be doing that. Live within your means.

whocares

Each year Sandusky's population decreases. Maybe they should annex Perkins to build up its tax base again?

richrs

That will NEVER happen!

wiredmama222

Never say never. Perkins is suffering financially just as badly as Sandusky is. Stranger things have happened, where two almost broke communities combined forces to solve their finacial problems and came out stronger in the end.

Look at what that would solve here: police and fire, educational, tax base for services of streets, lights, maintenance, buildings.

You would be totally surprised at the number of things that the cities could do for one another.

richrs

You are right about one thing I would be surprised what Sandusky could do for Perkins other than drain it.

wiredmama222

from what I have been reading, Perkins is about drained now. Your community is having major funds problems like we are ever since the tax devaluation on some of your properties over there. Read the paper of the problems Perkins is having with their funds. So I would not think Sandusky would be draining much of anything.

richrs

So we tighten our belt. I had the chance to invest in property in downtown. I thought it over and realized that contrary to what is said by the talking heads the downtown is gasping its last breath. Which IMHO is a shame. I blame mis-management at the commission level, the city manager, and even dept heads. There is much potential, and if I see a change at 222 I may still consider. In the meantime I'll invest out here in Perkins. Yes we lot some property tax dollars. But what community hasn't. We build a new Twp hall and it's paid for. Overall I think we are doing fairly well. Better than a lot I would guess.
I would really like to know what the city manager has done since she was hired. I see it as firing a few LEOs, hiding in her office and not doing anything that would move the city forward. As far as the city commission goes, most of them are worthless. It would be a good time for the city residents to consider a strong mayor form of government.
BTW can you name the business that have either closed or left the downtown in the last 6 months?
Annexation of Perkins has been talked about since the 50's and never went anyplace then, and won't now.

wiredmama222

Look, you are not doing as well as you seem to think. You have financial problems in Perkins too, And you just told me to put up or shut up. I am saying the same to you. First you want to invest, then you don't. Either invest or get out. You cannot have it both ways. You blame the government for not investing? How lame is that. You cannot blame them. Either and investment is worth it or it isn't. It hasn't a darn thing to do with the government and you full well know it. So put up or shut up to you too. Now invest in Sandusky like you were going to or be quiet and say nothing about Sandusky again. You just lost any reason for saying ONE WORD about it.

whocares

Yea, Perkins is probably about broke to

Darkhorse

I have a better idea and that is for the city to put pressure on the County to collect what is owed to us in the way of property taxes. Six million dollars outstanding in Sandusky alone and 11 million for all of Erie County. Stop coming to us for more money and collect what is owed to us. Stop allowing these property owners to make payments so they delay foreclosure and run up the tax bill even more.

wiredmama222

I nominate YOU to go collect it

Truth or Dare

Well, I don't know about anyone else here but those few City Residents and Employees don't speak for me, as I'm more than willing to look back over the last decade easy and all the BS that's gone on within City Govt., including the last year, costing City Taxpayers MILLIONS! Big mistake, huge, in thinking folks aren't paying attention, seeing a pattern.

When it comes time to voting for City Commissioners, I'll be adopting the Geo. Carlin mentality regarding voting. Why cast a vote for more of the same ole dysfunctional, "status quo" form of government, new or sitting Commissioners! I will however compromise and be sure to vote for Issues, which should an Income Tax Levy find it's way on the ballot yet again, and under the guise of supporting Safety Srvcs., my vote will be a resounding NO! Why? Anyone working within the city must pay an Income Tax, right? Same goes for anyone working within the city yet living outside of the City. However, they don't get to vote as to whether or not more of their pay will be taken. Nothing more than Taxation w/o Representation. Now, raise the Admissions Tax, I'll support that wholeheartedly!

pavedparadise

Very well said and agreed to by many

wiredmama222

I believe you were on council. I am running. Are you?

wiredmama222

Truth or Dare....If I decided to run for the Sanduky City Commission, could I count on your vote. I am standing for no more of the same either. I do NOT intend to let any more of this go on either. I live IN Sandusky. I promise to watch this budget like a hawk. I will get involved in the day to day goings on of the City, I am going to watch the City Manager daily. I intend to watch the streets and the police/fire. Thats my platform. Can I count on you?

wiredmama222

IN MY OPINON: I knew the minute I said I am running this place was sure to get quiet. I was sure it would. Either from surprise or shock or that big "oh, now" I was hearing in the background. LOL.

I cannot stand the thought of more taxes on people who cannot afford to pay them. The waste of money paying for studies we don't need, when the council should be doing their OWN decision making and looking into things.

I can't see taking forever on making decision that should take a few weeks, not months. Wasting money on stupid things that mean nothing. This all has to stop now. If we had a viable council this wouldn't be going on.

If we had assigned council members to specific details within this city something would get done. That is what we need. And everyone doing a job would move this city forward. I

Instead we have people OUTSIDE this council trying to run the show. That has to stop. We have benign council people letting them RUN the show. That has to stop.

We need people looking for industy to come into this town. That we NEED.

We have some council people doing nothing to earn their pay. That has to stop.

When all these things stop we might have a chance to move this city forward.

Get rid of the "double dippers", the lazy workers and the impotent people in this city. Keep people informed and make this a City to be proud of again. No more wasted land but land that pays us back. That's what we need around here.

We can all do this together if we try. We need it for our kids, for our grandkids and for generations to come. People who came before us did it. Now its our turn.

pavedparadise

I move to take up a collection for you not to run. Ya think there is turmoil on the Commission now.

Would your first order of business be putting condos etc. in that wasted, non-taxpaying property known as Washington Park?

wiredmama222

My, my. Paved... Sounds like a worried sour graper to me. No, I don't think this town needs more CONDOS any more than I think this place needs more PARKS. What this town needs is more INDUSTRY and places for people to work. It has for some time now. The people who insist that we need more parks seem to think that all the people in Sandusky want to do is sit around and ponder that sunset and FISH off some dock! What about the people who need to feed their family? What about the kids just starting out who want to buy homes and start their lives? They don't want to sit and watch the sunsets and do nothing. They need jobs. That is the problem. We have beautiful parks already. But we need businesses, not more parks and recreation. We need some capital coming into this town. Real capital.

The commission needs to learn to live within its budget as well.

We also need organization within the comission. Right now its a free for all. Everyone does pretty much what they want. That is why nothing gets done. You know that. If everyone took a specific part of this town and worked on it taking part of the budget to be responsible for that part on which they work, (its called organization), this town would run like a top. So go ahead and collect your money to see that I don't run. When you get $100,000.00 You call me. Then I won't run. Until then, too bad, so sad. Because I can do as well, if not better than most of the people who have been on there or who are on there now. I KNOW you have been on there and are going to run again. I hope we have the chance to work together. I want Cole's spot. You take Hamilton's or whoever you want.

Be honest. How much time did you really spend WORKING on things when you were on council??? Really working on things?????

Or give me the 'collection" price. Until then. Tough luck. I am in it for the people of this City.

DGMutley

City Commission

There will be 3 commission vacancies this year--Commissioners Brown, Cole, and Hamilton.
The term limit is eight years of a twelve year period ending the end of the term to which the person is seeking election.

The next chance to run for the Commission is 2015 when there will be 4 vacancies.

wiredmama222

YEP...that's right.

AJ Oliver

Mama, if you don't have the guts to use your own name when you criticize someone, don't expect to be taken seriously.
I'd consider voting for you for city commission except that you know nothing about the city's finances. The funds that they have available for vital services have been CUT (a lot) because of actions by the state. Citizens are NOT being asked to give more, on the contrary, taxes have gone DOWN - especially on the rich. Do some homework before you spout off. Spouting is just so easy when you are anonymous, isn't it? But unfortunately, anonymity is what keeps these blogs mostly at the junior high level discourse.

wiredmama222

Oliver....The name is Kate. I have signed it many times. The last name is Jones. If you would like to know my credentials, I can give them to you.

The last council I sat on, we had exactly $210,000 to use to run our little city and we managed beautifully. I worked on that council. I managed to get a grant and pave an entire roadway with it...the longest one in town. We did the city park, and many other vital things that we needed, including setting up the police department. As far as knowing the finances of a city, I can tell you that I know a great deal about it.

I can get you a signed affidavit from the current town treasurer of that town telling you about my help is deciphering the MESS we had when she took over. The past treasurer left her a royal mess and I helped her reconstruct the entire bookkeeping system for the city. (we got everything in five black garbabe bags). Four years worth of books.

So you can criticize all you want. I know that this city spends more money on stupid things than it ever should. I know where the money comes from to RUN the city, how it is divided up. How it is to be spent and how it is SUPPOSED to be balanced out. Do YOU? I am fully aware of State and Federal cuts to Cities and Municipalities.

I am also aware of grants and fundings that are available to assist some municipalities if they take the time to go after them. I have written grant proposals. Have you?

Do you know at what point in time each year the license plate taxes come in from the county? Where the levy money goes. What the general fund means? What can and cannot be spent on specific items each quarter? I do. Just to give you and example of my knowledge of town finances.

So I wouldn't be too quick to judge what a person knows and does not know when it comes to something.

I have a degree from Bowling Green State University. I taught for the last 10 years of my career. I had a nursing license for 39 years. I have been happily married for the second time for almost 17 years, 25 the first time. We lived in Arizona for 5 years. I was born and raised in Sandusky and graduated from Sandusky High School. I am 62 years old.

Any other questions? Comments? I would be most happy to tell you anything you wish to know....well, almost. LOL

whocares

How much does a city commissioner make a week? How many hours are they expected to put into the job? Does it even equal minumium wage? Does the Government pay better not to work?

T. A. Schwanger

The City Charter is available at the City of Sandusky's web-page and details how much each commissioner and the Ex-officio Mayor makes per week/year.

whocares

With all of Mr Schwanger's knowledge and experience he should run for city commission.

AJ Oliver

Ms. Jones - thanks for your response. Knowing something about how hard it is to be a good city commissioner, I admire anyone willing to run for the office. Although Tim & I disagree on a lot of things, I admire him too. He really knows a lot about the city. I predict that, should he run, he would be the top vote getter. It sounds like both of you would be budget bulldogs - which we do need.
I'd also suggest that we ask the city to conduct an informational session on budget issues. People are really not aware of the deep cuts being imposed on local governments by the state. It's all well and good to "live within your means", but when your MEANS ARE CUT deeply, there is just no way you can keep on doing what you have been doing. The city needs more foresters, recreation for our kids, and greenhouse workers. Are these just frills? Maybe, but when your quality of life goes, your community soon follows. End of rant!!