NRA: Don't read this

Matt Westerhold
Dec 23, 2012

But most people cannot look away. They can only watch and grieve for those families, for those parents whose lives will never again be normal.

For now this tragedy is embedded in the American consciousness. For now. Perhaps the images of those beautiful children and courageous educators will stay embedded and we won't forget. And as a nation, maybe, just maybe, there will be forward movement that begins to address this persistent problem; this persistent debate.

The National Rifle Association weighed in on Friday, suggesting the solution to the epidemic of mass shootings should be addressed by placing armed guards at every school door. If it's a war you want, it's a war the NRA is willing to back.

The founding of the nation came from the end of a musket, and the fascination with weapons is natural and has grown. There is little need to regulate the very clear right of law-abiding citizens to own weapons. Yet there is still a need.

*Get the Sunday Register today at a newsstand near you or buy the e*Paper here for the rest of the column.

Most people would agree that private individuals should not be allowed to develop their own arsenal of nuclear weapons. By way of the NRA's logic in it's support of semi-automatic weapons and 60-round magazine ammunition, that's a violation of the Second Amendment.

Comments

The Big Dog's back

gila, your posts have nothing to do with the subject.

2cents's picture
2cents
2cents's picture
2cents

Double

beepx22

People don't seem to have a problem with our Money, Politicians, Wealthy, Gold, being protected, but mention equal protection for our kids and people flip...

Kimo

Re: it was my ar-15 .223 cal semi-automatic with a 20 round clip. that got a few rabbits.

I used a single shot 410.
It just takes one shot.
Give'm a little lead and you won't bite into any shot.

Red Dot reloads and I didn't have to worry about killing someone in the next county.

Still have that 410 so when you republicans kill my social insecurity I can go back to living off the land...............

Kimo

RE:now deranged and emotionally unstable people have a sure fire way to get noticed.

Yup
Post NRA propaganda....

vicariouslyAlive

i take a full clip because i plan on shooting more than one moron... past the rabbit limit i also look for coyote tracks and other small game that are in season... you really are as dense as you portray yourself... and i also use a rifle because i don't like getting surprised by bird shot when im eating... call it proactive or just plane smart... but taking steps to avoid chipping teeth instead of just praying i dont find a pellet the hard way seems a bit smarter than your route... just throwing that out there.

and incase you failed to take a physics class while you were in school, the angle of approach has everything to do with shooting... if i'm shooting at a rabbit that stands at max 10 inches off the ground (when propped up on hind legs) i'd have to be laying on my belly to get my round to go any further than a few feet past the mark... in case that was too hard for you to understand, if im shooting at something at the ground the bullet lands 2ft maximum behind the target if i'm aiming at it's highest point. the only way for a round to "go into the next county" would be if i shot it into the air... and last i checked rabbits don't nest in trees... use some common sense before you start typing.

and my comments about the media being a surefire way to get these people famous didn't come from the NRA. it came from a forensics expert after the school shooting in Germany a little while back. i can post the link if you'd like. but remember, the last person that questioned my information got stuffed quite thoroughly.

all an ar-15 is is a convertible wood stock rifle. it allows me to put on and take of equipment depending on what im hunting while also allowing me to change the caliber of my rifle without having to own 2 separate rifles. which means i buy 1 and a half rifles, and save the difference in cost. i can easily put on a flash light or bipod without tools, and i can change sighting systems depending on what im hunting without tools. i chose that gun platform for the ease of transition, not because people think it's scary... but in case someone should try to enter my home... big and scary is a bonus.

any other asinine remarks you'd care to add to your stupidity?

The Big Dog's back

Moderators have removed this comment because it contained Personal attacks (including: name calling, presumption of guilt or guilt by association, insensitivity, or picking fights).

Dr. Information

and once again Big, you bring nothing to the table but pointless forum attacks.

Dr. Information

Moderators have removed this comment because it contained Personal attacks (including: name calling, presumption of guilt or guilt by association, insensitivity, or picking fights).

The Big Dog's back

Moderators have removed this comment because it contained Personal attacks (including: name calling, presumption of guilt or guilt by association, insensitivity, or picking fights).

Dr. Information

Thank you for proving my point.

The Big Dog's back

Oh, by the way, Merry Christmas everyone.

Randy_Marsh

@Big dog
Merry Christmas to you as well, Stay safe out there.

2cents's picture
2cents

http://www.usarightnow.com/

(homicides this year:
info rates per 100,000 people are decreasing steadily since 1991, and are now back at the levels of the mid 1960's after being at twice the current rate in the 70's and 80's. Current estimates are based on CDC data.)

2cents's picture
2cents

(1,192,131 abortions in the U.S. this year)

I see what sets off the far right. The media goes nuts with the kids murdered in CT but this country is ok with wacking over a million unborns this year. We are really a messed up society!

Interesting stat website I stumbled upon..

Merry Christmas, I think!

Kimo

Re:any other asinine remarks you'd care to add to your stupidity?

Nah, you pretty much told me all I need to know about you, and your arsenal.

I got used to eating a little lead shot when I hunted ducks and pheasants.
Open water ducks would dive down, eat the lead off the bottom of the bay, get lead in their butt, and that made them fly a little slower.

It all worked out.

Contango

Thousands are protesting a single rape in India.

Why are the Rev. Jesse Jackson, Pres. Obama and other black leaders not calling for protests in Chicago and other major cities over gang related gun violence?

http://www.cnn.com/2012/12/25/wo...

The Big Dog's back

Moderators have removed this comment because it contained Personal attacks (including: name calling, presumption of guilt or guilt by association, insensitivity, or picking fights).

Contango

"Cornel West: Politicians Only Talk Gun Control When ‘Vanilla’ People Get Shot":

http://atlantadailyworld.com/201...

Blowfish

He is but does that mean he's wrong?

Blowfish

They do its a regular event. Not much good but its an effort.
http://www.dailyherald.com/artic...

People in New Delhi are rioting due to government inaction and apathy towards rape. Are you calling for riots like when MLK was shot or Rodney King verdict to stop gun violence?

EZOB

O'Bama's girls attend a school with 8 armed security guards and they are in the process of hiring another one. Oh wait, that's for his kids, they don't have to belong to our Health Care Plan either. Their rules don't apply to us.

The Big Dog's back

Moderators have removed this comment because it contained Personal attacks (including: name calling, presumption of guilt or guilt by association, insensitivity, or picking fights).

Dr. Information

No solution from the little puppy. Just more countless pointless rantings.......Where's the solution little puppy? You have all the answers but when facts are thrown in your face you can't deal with them and do what liberals do the best....DEFLECT. LOL, you are a pretty weak forum poster. For someone who has so much air, there is really no substance.

Blowfish

This is not about the NRA. NRA has the same relationship that Family Planning has to the abortion issue. Its the face of the real divisions in America. Be thankful that the American people have someone to negotiate with. The NRA is not the lion its the lion tamer.

Attention fellow libs,

Hardly any future deaths will be prevented from constitutional legislation that can pass both Houses. Will be a lot of huffing and puffing but not a darn thing will happen. Citizens will have the right to own personal fire arms for the next 50 years... Unless the a president is willing to take on the most serious constitutional crisis since Lincoln. What non-gun nuts fail to realize is that the 2nd Amendment for some is not only the most important part of the Constitution--it's a religion. We have a better chance eliminating Islam from Iran than we do banning guns. The fear die-hard 2nd Amendment backers had was irrational up to this point. President Obama knows this. He is way to smart to take on this Constitutional juggernaut. At the slightest hint of more gun control, look what happens. Gun shops around the country are reporting sales of almost $1,000,000/day! This is not what President needs at this time. If he wants his real agenda to be derailed, attack the 2nd Amd. The President will stall, stall, stall, until this dies down. Emotions are high and pro-gun control proponents will demand action. Obama will throw us libs a bone with this BS commission headed by the Vice President. At best, a grand-slam homerun would be national legislation that mirrors Connecticut's current laws with metal health provisions. Don't hold your breath.

My reasoning for his calculated inaction. President Obama despises personal fire arms but fears another American Civil War even more. This theoretical war would be one of the most devastating wars in recorded history. You thought North vs South was bad, try neighbor versus neighbor. This would very likely turn into third world war. I guarantee he will not light this keg because this will be his legacy. He will not go down as the president that disarmed/destroyed America.

I voted for Obama both elections because he was smart. I support fully support his health care initiatives and fiscal polices. Bad idea to attack legal gun owners.

EZOB

For those that had difficulty understanding My post, My grand children have are entitled to as much safety as Politicians children. By using the word entitled just maybe the Far-Left Liberals will understand what I'm saying.

crazyrick

ITS PEOPLE CONTROL, NOT GUN CONTROL

EZOB

You raise gas price 2.00 a gallon and the low and middle class really suffer. The rich feel no or very little. Tax a millioaire 5% more and nothing will change in His every day life, same driving habits, same vacations, and same food. When the Middle class starts paying another 2-3 thousand a year there is going to be a huge impact. Oh yes, it's coming, They want us to fall off the Cliff.

goofus

http://www.sfgate.com/news/world...

Bad car, is this like an SUV plunge!!!!

Kimo

Two firefighters were shot dead and two others remain hospitalized. One of the weapons recovered was a .233-caliber semiautomatic Bushmaster rifle with flash suppression, the same make and caliber gun used in the elementary school massacre in Newtown, Conn.
He used that gun for rabbits, multipurpose weapon. Bet if they check his freezer.........

beepx22

you forget the fact he was forbidden from having that weapon, by gun control laws, gotta make it double illegal now. Go to a gun store and try to buy an AR-15 now, and you'll see all this talk of Control and Confiscation has emptied the shelves.

gilamonster

Is that all slobbering liberals get from the Christmas arson; firemen shot with a Bushmaster .223? This what I get, did he use a gun to kill his grandmother? No he used a hammer, obviously claw hammers are deadly. Second why was this idiot even out of prison? If they had kept this murder in prison where he still belonged, none of this would have happened. I also noticed he was intent on burning down the neighborhood, I don’t hear anyone screaming about banning matches or accelerants, do you? All you hear is blahh blahh, Bushmaster evil .223….. Hey maybe the idiots that let this creep back on the street need to be held accountable and serve some prison time themselves;

The Big Dog's back

Wow! Looks like winnie and the good dr. are into silencing people's posts again.

shucks

Ugh! Me no like-um

Kimo

Re:The NRA is not the lion its the lion tamer.

Now that is a ballbuster.........

wiredmama222

I really don't think that this entire matter of so called gun control is going to be that at all. It is going to be a certain TYPE of gun control...an assault weapon gun control. That had a ban on it once before, I believe. The vice president and his committee has 30 days in which to come up with a comprehensive plan to give the President. That isn't much time.

You can bet they will be asking for input from those who lost children from Sandy Hook about what they think is the best thing for them to do. Their family members already got together to have a very serious talk about what they wanted, if you remember. They had some offers of ideas. I can bet they will be giving them to the VP and his group.

I, for one, am anxious to hear what they have to say. I know it includes background checks, mental health issues and assault weapons. We will all hear about it in the near future, I am sure of that.

Dr. Information

And when they did have that ban, gun violence went up nationwide. So again, whats your solution?

The Big Dog's back

Get rid of weapons of mass murder.

Randy_Marsh

@Big dog
I heard snapping you fingers while dancing a jig and jumping off the bay bridge will get rid of all the weapons of mass murder, While your at it can you also get me a winning lotto ticket, world peace and a muzzle on every liberal hack that like to say racist things?

Dr. Information

Do you even read? There was a ban on assault weapons in the past and gun violence went up. So again what's your point? Nothing but the same old banter. Please bring more that this weak stuff. Yawnnnnnn. You are boring and lost this one a long way back.

vicariouslyAlive

so i was right when i said the other day that'd we see more shooting involving .223's... the media perpetuates the mentality. we'll see more... and more... and more... until coverage stops... i do find it a bit coincidental that obama starts to take a stand against a certain type of gun and al of a sudden tons of murders are now being documented involving that type of gun, but they're at the very same time over looking the other murders that have happend in the same time frame, and some of which were more horrifying than the ones being covered... seems pretty fishy to me... and i know it wouldn't be only his fault... there's many anti-gun people that are reveling in all of this carnage... i guess that's the difference between the pro guns and anti guns people... pro gun people only get loud when guns keep the peace, we celebrate it, and at the same time mourn when they are misused.... anti gun people get loud when ever there is carnage, but never tip their hat when a gun does a good job at saving lives... something seems a bit wrong here...

Centauri

Somebody mentioned that the AR as in AR-15 meant "assault rifle" which is a lie and spread on the internet.

http://www.nssf.org/msr/facts.cfm
"•The AR in "AR-15" rifle stands for ArmaLite rifle, after the company that developed it in the 1950s. "AR" does NOT stand for "assault rifle" or "automatic rifle."

I would rather take my chances with somebody with a semi-auto in close quarters than some sniper a mile away with a single shot .308. Too many people have no idea about military or police weapons and those owned by civilians.

I would still like to know how a newspaper could publish all those names of those who hold CCW licenses. Somebody broke Ohio's law. The SR is not telling. A lot of news should be told by the SR. Those 20 top stories are nothing compared to what the powers that be don't want you to know.

http://www.ohioattorneygeneral.g...

Did the SR take photos of the confidential CCW records? Who is not talking and hiding the truth? Next will the SR get your medical records and by-pass the HIPAA law? Somebody broke Ohio's law about the confidential CCW records. Who broke the law? Cover-up perhaps?

How come Big Dog has not been banned? Others were banned for minor or less violations.

starryeyes83

Let's see.... how long would the rest of us ( who are already here) last , if there wasn't any abortion at all?

Knowing that this planets' natural resources are limited; and thousands of people are NOT careful about personal responsibility... hmmm?

Really, folks, stop and think about it.

** The ONLY Reason I ask this is because people keep bringing abortion into the subject about gun control. *** And I don't understand why.

It's 2 different topics, right?

Kimo

Kimo: In 2013 a lot will be said, little if anything will be accomplished, and innocent people will continue to be shot and killed.

It is not unusual to see pictures and videos of underage/young people with weapons on social media. When someone is killed people will continue to say; "Well it's illegal for them to have these weapons under the current law".

There is not enough law enforcement in this country to stop that kind of behavior.

Big money rules in this country and guns are big money.

vicariouslyAlive

you see starryeyes83, we live in a society run by simpletons... they see the world only in black or white, yes, or no, have or ban... but the world is much more complicated than that... they make comparisons based on antiquated belief structures from back when the world could be run that way...

when it comes to abortion, there is no have or ban way about it.. if you say yes, the allows all of those teenagers to go out and be irresponsible and waste human life, but if you ban it, then those people that get raped end up being forced to raise a hate child... or give it up for adoption where it can further burden society... yes... there are some people that are looking to adopt... but there's already too many kids that need taking care of let alone another million or so a year added to the mix...

the same goes for gun control. giving everyone a gun is no more an answer to the problem than taking them away from everyone... if people have proven to be an asset to society, then yes, give them a gun. i've been a law abiding citizen my whole life, so to punish me for the acts of someone hundreds of miles away would be insane, and it would also beg to ask the question, if i'm being punished for something i didn't do what reason do i have to follow any law at all?

here are the facts. "assault weapons" are already illegal. flat out plain and simple... so any further ban on rifles would not follow in assault weapons foot steps, but rather ban something that isn't even being properly represented. more people die every year from many other unnatural causes than by rifle, so to ban them in a yes or no society would mean needing to look at every other issue with the same mortality rate. media biased is over looking all other causes of death at the moment and only covering rifles, which so far still only account for 4% of all gun murders and less than 1% of all total murders, and yet, in the past 2 weeks they just keep playing loops of the same news...

we need to get past this black and white mentality and realize that the world is a bit more complicated than that. if the gun problem was really as bad as the media and it's mindless followers make it out to be, there'd be no people left... they act as if just because people own guns that automatically makes the murderers... and they equate the number of guns in the states to the number of people in the united states... and if that were true it'd be almost a 1 to 1 ratio... 310,000,000 guns in a population of around 350,000,000 million people... so they are saying that over 95% of the population is a gun owner... and if that were really the case then there wouldnt be much of a gun argument now would there? then they go on to say that a decrease in guns would be a decrease in gun violence, as if that's the only violence the world sees... when really a decrease in gun violence would only amount to an increase in other forms of violence... guns aren't the problem, a neglected society is. a society that has been striped of it's power to even raised it's own children under any kind of discipline without having to fear the CPA showing up at your door... a society that bases it's goals and morals on shows like jersey shore and then we expect our kids to come out normal? a society based on if the kid cant sit still and behave it must be ADD or ADHD or if they don't have many friends they have a social disorder and the answer is always to medicate... a society where having SWAG is now more important than being responsible in any sense and terms like YOLO run rampant to justify acts of stupidity... and you people wonder why society is heading downhill?

if we all acted responsible and started being parents again, as a whole because i know some of you are still doing a good job, then most of the problems would be fixed... it's the schools job to teach math and english, not the rights and wrong sof not doing drugs, and yet we depend on the schools to teach our children the basic morals that parents used to teach back in the 50's and 60's. it used to be the parents duty to teach their children about things like moderation and basic human civility, and yet now we expect them to just pick that stuff up in school and sit stupefied when our kids turn 21 and one their 21st birthday end up in the hospital because they got into a fight and had alcohol poisoning...

again im going to say this... we as a society are at fault for the things that happen because we've spent far to long expecting society to take care of the things that we were responsible for... raising our children, protecting ourselves, earning a living... these days we say the the schools should do that, that's what the police are for, and why work when there's government benefits. and we wonder why the government has so much control... well thats because we've given it to them. if we taught our kids right from wrong then the acts of violence would decline. if we had means of protecting ourselves then criminals would think twice about committing a crime because they would always have to expect that their life was on the line every time they wanted to snatch a purse... and if everyone was educated and could earn a decent living then there' be little to no need for crimes like theft or drug distribution...

the issues go much deeper than how lethal is a rifle... it's the driven motive behind the shooter that were comprised of a life time of misinterpretations, a false sense of reality and never being taught how to deal with their emotions properly because the school was too poor to fund that lesson and the parents didn't take it upon them selves to teach it. i own 3 guns, and im planning on buying a 4th in the spring, and yet im not out robbing gas stations or shooting up pubic places. what we have to remember is that 95% of legal gun owner are responsible gun owners... wouldn't it be a shame if all egg's or cars or alcohol were banned because 5% of the population couldn't control themselves? punishing the masses because a few neglected people ruining it for the whole bunch... because that's exactly what some of you people are pushing for. wasting tax money on a rifle crack down... money we dont have to crack down on a problem that barely exists...

Kimo

Re: "crack down on a problem that barely exists".

Really?

Those kids did exist, now they don't, but in my mind their death is a problem that we, not they created.

vicariouslyAlive

yes, i agree, the problem is one we created, as i stated twice before and now for a third time...

and look, i hate to speak frankly and insensitively, but going after a method of crime that accounts for less than 1% of all total crime is going after a problem that barely exists. death by rifle is is one of the lowest hommidice methods around.

people like you Kimo that play into the emotional and irrational is exactly what the media and pro gun people want and are looking for. they prey on the sheep in society to pull what ever strings they see fit. yes 26 people died, and that is sad, it truly is, but more people die every day. what about those people? in just the last week america has lost about 1000 people... what about those people? what about how they were murdered? not everyone is killed by a rifle... actually, barely anyone is killed by a rifle, but people like you with blinders over their eyes that only know about the outside world because of what their news channels want them to know. the Sudan, the Congo, Columbia... those placses have a problem with actual assault rifles, the real ones that are fully automatic, and yet, there's no public outcry for them? the problem is the news finds a new for of entertainment through the atrocities of one act and then turns it into something fantastical. had those children been bludgeoned to death with a golf club the PGA would be under fire. if they were all strangle to death with a guitar string, Gibson would be in trouble. but since the guy used a rifle, no matter how many times it has been proven over and over that hand gun violence is more than 5 times a big of a problem and now matter how many statistics are put up that you're more likely to die at work today than to be shot with a rifle, people like you always find a way to follow your irrational minds because thats what the news wants you to do. when you can't rely on the fact to back up your argument people always fall back on the emotional matters, no matter how small they are in the grand scheme of things. yes, i have a child, and believe it or not i'd like to have another even though to world is in a crap hole, but i would like to learn not only from the mistakes in CT but the countless other examples of how gun regulation has been failing to keep people afe since the inception of gun regulation. because even murder is against the law and yet it happens on a more than regular basis... so please tell me Kimo, in your expert analysis of all of the worlds situations... better yet, let's localize it a bit, in all of the united states' situations, please tell me how writing another law in a book is going to help when people already aren't following them? because if we all followed the letter of the law there'd be no more speeding tickets, no more murders, no more drugs, and no more theft... but wait!!! i forgot... those things still happened even though some of them have been illegal since the bible was written... so please, i beg of you, please tell me how writing more laws is going to achieve anything more than what has been achieved in the last 2000 years.

gilamonster

How come the liberal media is only focusing on the NY arsonist Bushmaster? Why don’t we hear, “ He bludgeoned his old grandmother to death with a 20 ounce Estwing claw hammer, the same type used by many carpenters and easily bought at any hardware store, then used a lighter that’s easily bought at any c-store to set the neighborhood ablaze, then some idiot liberal parole board released him into society because he was rehabilitated”?

Ban weapons of mass murder, so you don’t mind walking or riding a horse to work? Or giving up a woman’s right to vacuum her unborn kid out? I already know the stats, but I bet you more people died on Ohio roads the last two days than by Ohio guns. In 2011 around 1010 people died in accidents, with about 150 on cycles; 344 people in Ohio died from firearms; you tell me what kills more? If your so paranoid about dying keep that hog in your garage.

Social media, so you are saying social media is a problem? I agree. Not only do you see kids with guns, but kids racing cars on the street kids snorting coke, kids preparing for some dumb zombie apocalypse, kids beating the tar out of each other, flashing gang signs, kids making flame throwers, and so on. We made the problem. I agree. Something is seriously wrong with our culture today where life has zero value.

sanduskysteve

Funny you should mention that 334 more people were killed by firearms in Ohio alone than in Japan during the same time period. How is it that their gun control works and ours doesn't??? Can you answer that? Don't take my word for it - look it up. If you multiply Ohio's number by 50 states how does that number come out? And compare it to 10 for a whole country. Something is wrong with what we are doing - someone has to have an answer to this? I have mentioned it over nad over and not a single person wants to comment to it. Why? Because it's true that if gun control is implemented and done properly - it DOES work. But at the same time, the NRA goes bye-bye and, of course, we cna't have that. Think about this - is it possible that gun violence went up during the assault rifle ban because assault rifle owners were on a rampage determined to prove that the ban wouldn't work??? This is the one thing to fear about increased gun control. And that just shows that current gun owners are a real danger.

Oh yea, just wanted to mention that your hero George Bush quit the NRA due to their response to the mass murder of those kids in CT. Hmmmm. There were 4 other top leaders who followed suit - mostly Republicans. Why?

vicariouslyAlive

and trust me, killing someone with a hammer or a knife shows deep seeded mental problems... problems that are now being overlooked because rifles are the hot topic... no one cares that he murdered before, no one care about the extremely graphic nature of his first crime, it's all being eclipsed because he used a rifle the second time... the media makes me sick.

oh, him being insane with a past of violent actions wasn't the cause... it's the guns fault that he wanted to set the neighborhood on fire... blaming the gun because of the person with their finger on the trigger for a murder is like blaming a pencil for misspelling words.

Kimo

Moderators have removed this comment because it contained Personal information.

Contango

@ Kimo:

Better cool the sanctimoniousness.

The U.S. is the largest arms dealer in the world. As an ardent Obama supporter you're complicit in the military industrial complex and the deaths of thousands of innocents worldwide.

shucks

Kimo

Their fingers must get real tired.

2cents's picture
2cents

(There is not enough law enforcement in this country to stop that kind of behavior)

Correct, so stop the dribble out of Hollywood glamorizing firearms and the problem will get better in time!

vicariouslyAlive

kimo... again, when you cant fight the facts you turn to personal attack...

luvblues2

I can't believe that you all give Matt this many posts when he only opined. Emil asked for law director quotes. Matt jumped on his (Emil) coattail because he saw an opportunity. Have you ever watched Matt talk on his BTL crap? The guy takes as long to ask or answer a question as it would take a snail to walk from the Register building to Cedar Freakin' Point. Emil knows his questions and answers before hand. Is it not evident?

Dr. Information

Matt got what he wanted. A pointless forum war. Weak.

luvblues2

.

Dr. Information

Bahaha....why is it liberals want to blame everyone but the shooter. I've yet to see one word from the liberal posters on here about how messed up this kid was and that he was to blame. They want to blame Hollywood, video games and guns. Take away semi auto rifles and one will just use handguns next time like the guy at VA Tech did. Take away handguns, they will use shotguns....and on and on and on.

Liberals = do not address the real problem, they just want to ban everything and "hope" it doesn't happen again. Liberal way = knee JERK reaction, more laws that do nothing but say the exact same thing as the laws we already have.

No proof or stats from anyone on the left on here, just OPINIONS.....Bahahaha....love it.

BTW, no gun laws will be changing.....the media isn't even talking about this stuff anymore. Two more weeks and its old news for 99.999999% of the nation.

Blowfish

The kid is dead. His divorced mother is dead. No one "directly" responsible to lash out against.

Contango

Another case of: When everyone is responsible, no one is responsible.

Centauri

http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2012/...
"A gun advocacy group in Ohio has offered free firearms training to teachers as a response to the Sandy Hook Elementary mass shooting earlier this month."

I feel that this is a good idea. Whether an intruder to the school uses a gun, knife or baseball bat, who will stop these intruders? Recall Columbine, Virginia Tech and other places where police came and hid behind trees. The police went in after the carnage was over. The idea of armed teachers and police school resource officers is a good idea.

Laws do not stop people from killing children and people in general. Our country is at war with Islamic terrorists. Does anybody remember the school shooting in Russia?

http://articles.cnn.com/2004-09-...
"Russia school siege toll tops 350"

2cents's picture
2cents

I have no problem with firearms training, you need to train to drive a car so a basic 12 hour CCW class to purchase or own a firearm is ok with me. The class is very informative. I have been shooting all my life and learned a number of good things from it as well as up to date with the laws involved. It would be nice to be able to take your picture ID to a gun store and be able to purchase without question. You are now responsible for that firearm!

The Big Dog's back

So you want a police state. Interesting.

Centauri

I don't want a police state. I have been fighting for years for American rights to freedom. The police state is already here in America. America has the most prisoners in the world that include political activists who are jailed for their free speech and criticism of judges and government officials. You have the internet. Use it to inform and educate yourself. Don't take the American news media as gospel and the complete truth. The government uses the news media to help silence, eliminate and imprison the people who are very vocal about their rights. The simpletons stand on the side lines silent or they post comments in agreement of the government taking the freedoms and rights of Americans away.

Read all about the police state in America. I have made it easy and provided some links. Do your research because there are thousands of internet sources that show the police state in action.

http://tinyurl.com/9687w7x
"It's Official the US is a Police State"

http://tinyurl.com/d4xdl8l
"Are we becoming a police state? Five things that have civil liberties advocates nervous"

http://truth-out.org/news/item/1...
"The image that most people hold of a “police state” is a representation of extreme power dynamics, and repressive tactics to maintain them, at specific points of history. The current political climate in the United States is unique in many ways, and distinct from those eras. However, it shares core attributes that we generally associate with a “police state”:"

wiredmama222

Ok, I have read some of this with absolute abash, not seeing one word that made much sense when it came to the mentally ill laying their hands on a bushmaster at the second hand gun sales. What about those sales? Who is going to regulate those? Why does the NRA shy away from the discussions at hand about the sales of the secondary markets?

I have yet to see a MEANINGFUL discussion with one person from the NRA about that. There is no background check, not one really regulating them and yet you can buy the bushmasters and other semi automatic guns at these easily without anyone checking a single background.

So if the people and the government want them stopped, why is the NRA so fearful of taking a stand one way or the other. I call your attention to an interview given last night, Dec 26th, with the vice president of the NRA on "out front" who did not want to say one way or the other what position the NRA took on this matter.

Why is that? Personally, if these sellers are unable to do a viable background check on their buyers, they shouldn't be allowed to sell guns.

Dr. Information

@wired. If you read everything, then obviously you would have read where this kid that shot all these innocent school kids WAS turned down from buying a gun by a gun shop. So he stole from his mother. Guess what, the background check worked. So let me get this right...you and a handful of other posters want the NRA to be responsible for mental health checks before guns are sold? You want the NRA to be responsible for this kids theft of his moms guns?

If so, you need to back and support mental checks for driving a car. I see countless elderly people that shouldn't be driving each day. I see countless young people who arent ready to drive but are because they are 16.

As much as you say that some people shouldn't own a gun (which I somewhat agree with), I on the other hand say that there are many people that shouldn't get their drivers license and be in a 4 wheeled mass murdering machine. Some people shouldn't own chainsaws. Some people shouldn't own 4 wheelers...etc.

The NRA and gun shops can only do so much. They do a federal background check. If its clean or a person doesn't have anything on their record, they can buy a gun. What else do you liberals want? A year long mental evaluation (tax) on everyone interested in buying a gun? That wont happen. You can't force people to go see a shrink before buying a gun.

Gun responsibility, locking your guns up...etc is about the only thing you can do.
The NRA cannot be held responsible for gun theft. The NRA cannot be held responsible for a handful of idiots over the last 10 years that went on a mass murdering spree.

If you think the NRA is responsible, then GM should be responsible when a person steals a car and totals it into another car and kills someone. Or Ford should be responsible when someone drinks and drives and kills someone. Thats the comparison you people are trying to make.

sanduskysteve

Again an NRA supporter that refused to answer the question that was asked. I don't think that the NRA should be responsible for anything you mentioned - they are not a regulatory agency and have no responsibility as one. But what wiredmama asked was not mentioned or answered in a single work you posted. You only kept repeating a bunch of BS about cars and drivers. Stick to the questions asked. But again, I have asked repeatedly questions that are receiving no answers as well so I'm not suprised at the lack of concern for Wiredmama's question. I have the same question actually. And if you can't check a person's background, then don't sell them the gun - it's really pretty simple. Gun theft should be the responsibility of the gun owners and it will only happen if there is proper registration. If someone steals your car (since you like to do comparisons that way), and wrecks the car, unless you officially report it stolen, YOU ARE RESPONSIBLE. Guns need to be registered and there should also be a test fired round kept with that registration so they can have osmething to identify the owner almost immediately. If that owner did not transfer registration or report the gun as stolen, that owner weill be held expressly responsible for what happens with that gun. I don't see anything wrong with that either - what is your response to that idea? Tell me how that won't help with someone stealing an unprotected gun. There ARE really good ideas out there, but the NRA supporters are turning a blind eye to them and insisting it's the same as a car, knife, or bicycle. They are not the same.

Now, how about answering wiremama's question. NRA can't, and you won't either.

BW1's picture
BW1

There's a simple 2 part solution to second hand sales, that doesn't require any government coercion.

Part 1: Make the instant background check system accessible to anyone, not just FFL holders. Have a toll free number and a website, where a private seller can enter a prospective buyer's vital information, and get a yes or no response, plus a confirmation number that can be used to recall and verify the check.

Part 2: Pass a federal law indemnifying sellers who can produce a valid background check confirmation number, thus proving they took the same steps required of dealers, which are the prima-facie standard of prudent gun sales. No one is forced to do anything, so there's no concern about exceeding the government's enumerated powers. Performing a background check confers a valuable benefit, giving sellers an incentive to do it.

One of the gun rights supporters' objections to background checks is that records can be kept which are effectively a database of gun owners that could be used to facilitate future confiscation. This plan overcomes that objection, because anyone could call in a background check on anyone else, whether the person checked is buying a gun or not, making it possible to flood any database with the names of non-gun owners and nullifying any concerns about the government abusing the information. Plus, who wouldn't like to know if their new neighbor is a convicted felon, whether the neighbor owns a gun or not?

2cents's picture
2cents

http://fox8.com/2012/12/27/gunma...

FOUR ROUNDS TO THE HEAD? Similar MO.

ORANGE VILLAGE, Ohio –The Orange Village Police Department identified the man accused of shooting a woman in a hotel parking lot as David Fields, 59, of Cleveland.

Fields will be charged with felonious assault and aggravated robbery among other charges.

He is on parole after serving 30 years in prison for aggravated murder and has been arrested in the past for offenses such as armed robbery, receiving stolen property and grand theft auto.

Multiple police departments responded to the Courtyard Marriott Hotel on Orange Place on Thursday morning, where Fields reportedly shot a woman in the parking lot.

vicariouslyAlive

Moderators have removed this comment because it contained Remarks advocating illegal or violent actions.

BW1's picture
BW1

Moderators have removed this comment because it contained Personal attacks (including: name calling, presumption of guilt or guilt by association, insensitivity, or picking fights).

Mr Bean

Just two questions-----

• Would the World Trade Center still be standing had the pilots of those two planes confronted box-cutter-yielding terrorists with a firearm?

• Might any of the 20 Sandy Hook school children still be alive had the principal immediately pulled a pistol from her desk drawer and returned fire at the assailant?

BUD COHAN/Columbus Dispatch

John Harville

@Mr. Beanj... would the WTC still be standing if the flight training school had acted on suspicions because the students didn't want to learn how to land, only how to fly? And what wold pilots have done with guns? Discharge them? That would haved caused a crash... killing hundreds... and the attackers only regret would have been that they didn't fly into a building.
The principal should have had a gun lying loose in her drawer, not locked (no time to get the key), available to anyone who came into her office?

BW1's picture
BW1

" That would haved caused a crash."

Another one commenting from ignorance. Pilots can be armed now, and there are armed air marshals. Anyone with half a brain would surmise that there was a way to fire a weapon on a plane without causing a crash. Someone with two halves might even take a minute of googling to find out what that was, and that it's been known since long before 9/11.

But no, you just spout ignorant assumptions, just like all the others of your view.

John Harville

What is your reaction if I tell you I'm armed? Good night.

BW1's picture
BW1

No reaction at all. So you're armed. Are we supposed to freak out or something?

2cents's picture
2cents

You never tell anyone you are armed, you use your firearm as required.

vicariouslyAlive

it's a no win situation for the NRA, so forcing an answer won't happen. with the way people twist words around, if they fully support the idea of putting a gun in the hands of everyone with a clean record and mental bill of health, later on down the line when someone snaps that was previously seen as healthy, as i mentioned above, the NRA will be held accountable for the proposition they made... so there's loss one.

loss two comes where if they advocate the use of guns the media will see it as a by proxy of they lack remorse for the people that die because of guns... which isn't true by any measure... i'm a gun owner and i pray for the people that think they're going to walk into my home and try to take them, but at the same time i am remorseful for the actions that other people make. im remorseful because some people don't value human life, im not angry at the tools used, that'd be ridiculous, tools don't use themselves... so how can you be mad at it? so that's loss two...

loss three would be if they say regulate guns.. which would be a complete about face on everything the NRA stands for, which is the right to bare arms... that's pretty easy to spot there...

the whole situation can be broken down easily... you're a kid and you're starving... you walk into the store and steal a loaf of bread... the cops arrest you for stealing... then the whole community jumps on the arresting officers back for arresting a child for breaking the law... so how does the officer defend himself in this situation? does he do his job and defend the law to it's finest letter and let the kid starve? or does he turn his back on the law to help the kid survive and end up losing his job? it's a no win situation when the media is involved, because the media sins things into a black and white mentality for the simple minded people to understand... and in most of the situations like abortion, welfare, and gun control... it's not as easy as the black and white answer that the simpletons are looking for... it's just not that easy even though some people think it should be...

so sanduskysteve, there's the sought after attention to wiredmama's irrational and unfair question, complete with an adequate and equal example. hope it helps.

Mr Bean

Mr Hartville: The idea that firing a weapon on a plane would cause a crash is rediculous in the extreme.---My questions were not guarantees, they merely offered opposing solutions, designed to make you THINK. Thinking that better results could not have been planned for, is also rediculous in the extreme.

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