NRA: Don't read this

Matt Westerhold
Dec 23, 2012

 

But most people cannot look away. They can only watch and grieve for those families, for those parents whose lives will never again be normal.

For now this tragedy is embedded in the American consciousness. For now. Perhaps the images of those beautiful children and courageous educators will stay embedded and we won't forget. And as a nation, maybe, just maybe, there will be forward movement that begins to address this persistent problem; this persistent debate.

The National Rifle Association weighed in on Friday, suggesting the solution to the epidemic of mass shootings should be addressed by placing armed guards at every school door. If it's a war you want, it's a war the NRA is willing to back.

The founding of the nation came from the end of a musket, and the fascination with weapons is natural and has grown. There is little need to regulate the very clear right of law-abiding citizens to own weapons. Yet there is still a need.

*Get the Sunday Register today at a newsstand near you or buy the e*Paper here for the rest of the column.

Most people would agree that private individuals should not be allowed to develop their own arsenal of nuclear weapons. By way of the NRA's logic in it's support of semi-automatic weapons and 60-round magazine ammunition, that's a violation of the Second Amendment.

Comments

Randy_Marsh

So you disagree with your namesake? Or are you only disagreeing because the NRA reintroduced it?

The Big Dog's back

It doesn't work, I disagree with it. I don't want our schools becoming prisons just so some gun nuts can have assault weapons and 30 round clips. And where do criminals get these guns? Oh yeah, they steal them from the people who do have them. Imagine that.

Dr. Information

So what do you want people to do about people stealing others guns? Oh thats right, there are already laws against theft.

The Big Dog's back

What happened to your armed homeowner defense? They steal them from armed homeowners. Ban on assault weapons, no assault weapons to steal.

Randy_Marsh

@Big dog
You do realize the system is already flooded with weapons and the ban just stops the sales? They do not make the weapons illegal to own at all.

dontcare

I would do away with the theft laws, The constitution says we have the right to the pursuit of happiness. If taking his mother's gun and shooting her makes him happy, that is his constitutional right. For you Dr. Information I feel the need to explain that this is what's called "sarcasm". Google that with your next quote.

shucks

ouch !

dontcare

Clinton proposed school resource officers, not with the specific intent to be armed guards.

Randy_Marsh

@Big Dog
"the only way to stop a bad guy with a gun is to have a good guy with a gun" If this is not true, Do not call the police if somthing bad is happening to you. They are good guys and if the bad guy has a gun they are worthless, Right? You should be used to playing the victim so just suck it up.

The Big Dog's back

Martial arts, tasers, knives, crossbow, ballbat, 2x4, .....

Randy_Marsh

You miss the entire point of the second amendment dont you?
A well regulated militia being necessary to the security of a free state, the right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed.
Notice "The security of a free state"? It means we are armed to prevent your types from overturning the constitution and making a god-king out of your politician of the month.
The founding fathers saw your types back then too, They were called tories and wanted to keep the king because they had no need of rights and freedom from a overbearing dictator. That is why we have the second amendment, To protect us from the stupidity of the clueless giving away our rights and allowing our Republic to fall.

dontcare

Can't you get it though your head that was 250 years ago. We were a British colony. There was a revolution to break away from the English fought not only by the military but by citizen soldiers. We are no longer a British Colony, If you want to play army, join the army. People like you who dream of overthrowing the government are the very ones who should not own a gun.

Randy_Marsh

It is a constitutional right to own a weapon, What can't you see about that? 250 years ago or today the writers of the constitution saw you people comming and make it so the rest of us sane individuals could protect ourself from your dictates and stupidity if it got out of hand.

Dr. Information

Cant argue with the left even when its in the constitution. I think the 1st amendment should be done away with so @dontcare can STHU!

dontcare

The 13th amdenment to stop slavery, the 19th amendment gave women the right to vote, neither were in the orginal document. The constitution should evolve with the times or at least be reinterpreted to reflect the changing society. No one wants to take away your bunker, gas mask, or other survivalist gear you're going to need when the government starts their unbearable oppression and you have to start up the revelotuion with your non-military weapons. Please don't shoot me.

shucks

NRA = Not Rational Americans

puddin95

How would making guns illegal help? Nobody can stop drugs among many other things.

Just Thinkin

Selling news, Isn't that what this is all about,The media may not have murdered those kids, but be honest they all are glad it happened really look how intense they are milking it, Why to make money from it. otherwise they would refrain from the onslaught of repeating the same crap, they will when the public gets tired of this and something more interesting happens, You all know it's the truth, By the way Merry CHRISTmas, and Happy New Year

Nor'easter

Westerhold missed the root of the problem completely.
The HIPPA privacy law forbids health professional from disclosing medical information about patients (even to the patient's spouse or parent) unless the patient has given written permission approving the release of information. Once again, our bumbling government and its over reactions to perceived problems has created another nightmare scenario. Only after the mentally ill person has caused mayhem, is any professional permitted to take action. This same issue was one of the causes of Columbine, Virginia Tech and nearly all these mass killings except for 9/11. The cause of that was government forbidding communication between the CIA & FBI. We clearly need to replace our legislators with someone with basic common sense.

Centauri

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l...

12 Shots In Under 3 Seconds with a six shot revolver. Who will call this a full auto assault weapon?

Whiskey Tango F...

Anwser this question honestly and you will solve the issue. When a shooting occurs, what is the immediate first response??? Call 911 and ask for police to come right? What if a few trained cops were already there? Maybe even able to act before the shooter turns the gun on himself? No one is saying this is a permanent solution, but it is an immedate attempt to do something other than pass laws that we don't have resources to enforce. fighting about individual weapons and accessories is fine but we have not made it any safer for our greatest resource.... our children.

luvblues2

Anti-gun brickheads lose this round. Sorry 'bout your luck.

Informer

I am a privatized security officer certified through the state of ohio, and would have no problem standing guard at my child's school. I would do it for free if they would allow me too. Most of my job is deterrence, if you see me, you will think twice before doing what you were planning on doing. If it wasent effective, I would not have a job...and we are doing pretty well in such a down economy. We all know some people choose not to obey the law, and we all know the national average response time for emergency personnel is 20 minutes. It dosent matter what kind of weapon you use, you can kill many people in 20 minutes. Having an armed guard in every school would work as a deterrent, and if catastrophe were to happen they would serve as a quick reactive solution. If we were to become more proactive in protecting ourselves from those who chose to break the law, we wouldent spend so much time being reactive. Think of it as the deadbolt on your door, or the lock in your car. If you dont secure your car, the only person you can be mad at is yourself when you come out the next morning to find that someone has been through your things. Now someone may break into your car, but that takes time and allot more effort. More than the usual criminal is willing to make, Same thing with armed guards... there's always going to be a potential for this to happen, but with deterrence and proactive thinking, it is my belief these acts of crime will diminish severely.

2cents's picture
2cents

(Most of my job is deterrence,)
The paddle on the wall by the classroom door in grade school did this as well. Unfortunately the progressive left do not consider this form of punishment a deterrent and let some kids run the show!

Informer

Which also might be part of the problem...although I havent done any research to support the fact, statistically anyway. Although im sure we could say its evident.

sanduskysteve

That, was the fault of the ACLU and the courts that created that issue - NOT necessarily the "left" as a whole.

luvblues2

You are a facsimile of law enforcement. You are a target waiting to be shot. Don't kid yourself.

Informer

I would rather it be me, than an innocent child. Or I could deter an assailant long enough so others could move to a safer location. Your right, I gain more attention, which I tend to use to my advantage. In turn it could potentially save more lives. We might not be able to save them all but we should at least try.

The Big Dog's back

Didn't work at Columbine.

Informer

A Jefferson County Sheriff’s Deputy, Neil Gardner, was assigned to the high school as a uniformed and armed school resource officer. At the time of the shooting, Gardner was on his lunch break in his patrol car. He was just northwest of the school, watching students in the "Smokers’ Pit" in Clement Park. Around 11:23, the custodian radioed him, requesting assistance in the "back lot". While on his way, Gardner heard on his radio that a female was down. While leaving the car, he heard in another call, "Neil, there’s a shooter in the school".Harris immediately fired at Gardner, who was wearing a distinctive yellow uniform, as he exited the vehicle.Gardner returned fire at Harris and Klebold, distracting them from the injured Brian Anderson.(Anderson escaped to the library and hid inside an open staff break room.) Harris fired a total of ten shots at the officer, who reported a Code 33 (officer in need of emergency assistance) to his colleagues~ taken from wikipidia. You cant be everywhere at once, But he did save Brian Andersons life. Thats enough for me.

2cents's picture
2cents

Intersting read, homocides are down since 1980?

http://bjs.ojp.usdoj.gov/content...

mikeylikesit

102 comments, same day. mr.westerhold is still the man!

luvblues2

Emil kicked his butt. He actually interviewed local law enforcement.

The Big Dog's back

Other “anything but guns” excuses offered by the NRA: movies, music videos, video games, President Obama, hurricanes, the media, gun-free zones, and celebrities.

Swamp Fox

biggest threat to America, doggie on a golf cart....

ski

Guns have been a part of this country since it was founded. What has changed is that our courts have not understood that separation of church and state in the constitution did not mean that we should eliminate God from schools by forbidding school prayer and that all forms of indecency and violence should be allowed to be shown on TV and in video games. We no longer have a moral code of conduct as a country, so our children do whatever they want, regardless of consequences.

The Big Dog's back

Prayer has not been eliminated anywhere. You are free to pray to anyone anywhere. You are not allowed to force your prayers on me or anyone else.

Dr. Information

Not so fast slick. A football team in Georgia caught hell for having locker room prayer before their games. It wasn't mandatory, it was a bunch of church going kids that believed in prayer before playing. One kid complains and the board of education, much like many of you liberal posters, has a knee jerk reaction and bans any type of free will, unorganized prayer on school grounds. Thank God the parents and kids stood strong and fought this and won.

vicariouslyAlive

... god.. media... video games... you can find violence in these things from their very beginnings... in the 10 commandments god was a child killer... killed the first born of every house in egypt... and yet we're supposed to turn to him in this time of need? that like hugging your rapist... Shakespeare is taught in every school in the country. his plays had murder, suicide, drugs, homosexual activity (since only men of the time were allowed to act and he had sex scenes in his plays quite often) and yet, no one is blaming Shakespeare and his multi-century span of violent acts? and last but not least, before anyone should have the right to comments on what guns should or should not be allowed in the country they should first educate themselves a bit.. assault rifles are already banned for most of the united states. they are a class 3 weapon and require a class 3 permit if it's allowed at all. the rifle used in the CT shooting was a sporting class rifle... no different from what most, if not all, hunters have in their homes... "but oh the magazine capacity!" you cry. i'll have you know that im a hobby shooter with margional experience and i can change out a magazine in less than a second. which means 10 rounds out, click click, refilled... literally that fast... it's actually more of a pain in the neck for the larger capacity magazines because they are more prone to failure... longer spring and inconsistent spring tension... plus they're heavier than sin and make it hard to transition accurately from target to target, (paper ones that is) so really having a high capacity magazine is a draw back... i know from experience.

lets not forget that if you run the actual numbers of people in the states that are murdered by rifles against most other causes of deaths, you'll find that you're actually more likely to die by choking on your dinner than to be murdered by a rifle... by a factor of 10! you're also actually 10 times more likely to die in the work place if it's safety regulations are monitored by OHSA... rifle homicides account for 400 fatalities a year as a rough average... most years it's lower than that... 4600 people died in the work place according to the OSHA website due to safety violations... so you people really need to get a grip on what you're talking about and what you actually deem dangerous... death by knife outweighs death by rifles... better hide the flatware!

p.s. chew 30 times before swallowing... you wouldn't want to hurt the anti gun cause now would you?

Informer

I agree that many people are misinformed. You can lead a horse to water, but you cant make them drink. People choose not to educate themselves about guns. Then we have a nation of people saying " oh that gun looks scary, lets ban it" without even understanding how it operates. What a shame....I completely agree with your comments.

The Big Dog's back

So if they are for "sport", leave them locked up at the shooting range.

gilamonster

Big dog, answer a question. You are driving down the road and some idiot runs a red light and nearly kills you. He had his license suspended so his girlfriend let him drive her Honda Civic. Said Civic had falsified plates and no insurance; in your mind it would be the cars fault? I mean after all, the car put gas in itself, started itself up, and broke numerous laws before slamming into you. The obvious solution would be to ban vehicles? Bad car, bad car…

And by the way, how many people are victims of violent crime in the UK gun or no gun? I would feel much safer after the Samurai sword ban, at one point the UK was going to ban any non-domestic knifes. I see you didn’t want to dispute that many everyday “objects” such as vehicles, bicycles, pools and unfit parents kill children at an alarming rate. Though I am not pro-life so to speak, you liberals have no problem aborting about 1.4 million babies a year; after all its your right to conveniently kill your own baby.

The Big Dog's back

What a lame comparison.

rjk1915

Let's see whether i've got this right. The NRA position is: the problem is too many guns. the answer is, "More guns."

Contango

More like guns in the hands of good people.

Why do many banks have armed guards? Is a bank more important than a school?

The Big Dog's back

1,081 bank robberies last year. Yeah, that stopped them.

goofus

The bank robbers are just redistributing the wealth, Brutus they are the left's heroes

The Big Dog's back

Where do criminals get their guns? Oh yeah, they steal them from the "good people". So much for that theory.

Randy_Marsh

The ATF?

2cents's picture
2cents

Lmao :)

vicariouslyAlive

not entirely true. our own government is said to hand out guns to other nations to antagonize things... what is it to think they don't do the same thing to itself? back in the 80's we gave binladen a ton of guns because back then her was the good guy, and it's quite apparent now that people change.

nmost guns that are illegally owned come from people buying them in bulkfrom gun shows and then reselling them illegally... which i don't agree with, because it gives the the people doing things the proper way a black eye... this is what at this very moment manufacturers like hipoint are being sued... and this all started before the CT shooting... so some this was being done to stem the flow of illegal gun use before this happened...

i guess you guys must have missed that article.

The Big Dog's back

The nra condones this 2nd hand selling. Why? Because they are lobbyists for the gun manufacturers. They don't care who has what, just sell more guns.

Randy_Marsh

2nd hand selling does nothing for gun manufacturers, Hurts them mostly because people aren't buying new weapons.

The Big Dog's back

Wrong again rand. Those people selling their old guns do what? Of course, by new guns.

Randy_Marsh

Actually, Most second hand guns sold are old hunting weapons that they no longer make and are better than anything they make today, Collectables if thats what you want to call them. You really do not know anything about the gun markets do you? Most guns shows now days are nothing but dealers anyways which make you wait the 7 days and register them before taking them home.

shucks

No Randy_Marsh you missed Big Dog's point.

People sell old guns , buy NEW guns , gun manufacturers make money on the guns they made, then gun manufacturers make more guns to sell and make more money.

Randy_Marsh

Most that I know personally will not sell their weapons, Anyone that knows anything about weapons knows if you find a good one you keep it. The gun manufacturers are selling hand over fist because of kneejerk reactionarys that want to ban them and the gun owners know there is always a over reach so they stock up. The best thing to happen to gun sales is a democrat in the white house.

Contango

"Connecticut has an assault weapons ban, modeled on the 1994 law. The Connecticut law also has a specific definition for 'assault weapon'

The law, for example, did nothing to halt the sale of a certain brand of Bushmaster semiautomatic rifle.":

http://www.washingtonpost.com/na...

The Big Dog's back

So you agree, the laws need to be made stronger so "good people" can't get them, and then criminals can't steal them. Very good winnie.

Dr. Information

@Big Dog, no that is not what he is saying at all.

Randy_Marsh

So you are all for punishing law abiding citizens, Figures you are all for indefinate incarceration and drone killing too.

shucks

Randy_Marsh

There's a drone flying around you.

Randy_Marsh

Don't you wish.

shucks

If you still consider the deaths of those two al Qadea terrorists as "... punishing law abiding citizens... ", despite the evidence otherwise, I would suspect paranoia on your part.

Randy_Marsh

You are talking of banning weapons you know nothing about because you are afraid of unknown boogy men comming after you and you want to call me parinoid? HA! The droning sets presidence, If he can kill a citizen without a trial (The 16 year old was not known for anything)They can throw you in jail without a trial and kill you.If bush did it i bet you would see different, But its a democrat so your fine with it, Just like certain other citizens in history that turned a blind eye to government abuses.

shucks

No, I never said to ban weapons.
How about big clips for starters?
Why do you need all the guns and bullets anyway?
Are YOU frightened of the boogy men? The government?
Yes,the government.
The government is going to send the 101st Airborne Division against you and you are going to defeat them, and then you are going to shoot all those drones out of the sky that are spying on you.

You probably support those nut job militia groups.

Randy_Marsh

Really? Obama says ban "Assualt" weapons you would jump on it like a good worshiper does. How about its a stupid law that covers everything from AR-15's to BB guns for "High capacity magazines"? How about it is my right to own as many as i want? No I am not afraid but obviously YOU are. The founding fathers saw your type 250 years ago and yes you people I consider a reason for owning them, You agree with indefinate incarceration and killings without trial. Probably not the 101st airbourne, But in the past they have rounded up citizens for nothing less than being a different race (Look it up FDR thew grand poobah of the left pulled that one off) And yes i do support the legal militias that do one weekend a month as a state Nat Guard. Any more questions you want to ask? I liken you people to ardent Nazi followers that are blind to everything other than your Furher.

shucks

I liken you to a paranoid, ranting , irrational ,anti-govt (except it being Republican) nut-job, who would go on a shooting spree.

Randy_Marsh

Those facts irritate you huh?

shucks

No, they are not facts.
By the way- back at you too. Are you irritated? (I dont care)
The only fact is that I am wasting my time replying to you.

Randy_Marsh

They arent? Wow, Just because you said so they arent? Wow, Just Wow. You can change all of history with a opinion? Facts are hard to ague with and ignoring them shows your sort of messed up in the head, Or just not very smart. Either way You have shown you have nothing to contribute.

shucks

WOW, I dont care what you say---Mr. Waste of Time.

Randy_Marsh

Ignoring facts, Brushing by logic and strive on to your gods will you unthinking multitudes of voter stock. You now realize why we refer to you people as Lemmings? HA!

shucks

Moderators have removed this comment because it contained Personal attacks (including: name calling, presumption of guilt or guilt by association, insensitivity, or picking fights).

shucks

Moderators have removed this comment because it contained Personal attacks (including: name calling, presumption of guilt or guilt by association, insensitivity, or picking fights).

Randy_Marsh

Musta hit a nerve you have lost that last of what sense you actually had.

vicariouslyAlive

it's blatantly ignorant comments like that which makes things worse... you claim to be so disheartened by the current event in CT and yet you use perpetrating similar events as a joke? you, sir or madam, have lost any and all credibility in my eyes as to being a caring individual. thank you and good day.

dontcare

Moderators have removed this comment because it contained Personal attacks (including: name calling, presumption of guilt or guilt by association, insensitivity, or picking fights).

Randy_Marsh

@Dontcare
Follow your onw advice and quit trying to label people, How about that? Its funny you leftist whine about everything under the sun and ignore the actual facts by trying to put down those that say them. You people are freakin dillusional.

dontcare

Randy, please take a deep breath. Call someone and talk, it will make you feel better. Tomorrow when the weather breaks you can go out and play army and pretend your protecting us against the government.

dontcare

Bush got us into Iraq that accounted for 3,000 Americans killed,... no trial.

shucks

Correct.
He should be put on trial.

Dr. Information

and your Muslim Messiah Barry put us into Afghanistan.....Americans killed weekly, he should be on trial too. But wait....Oh I forgot....the liberals will say...its Bush's fault. Chump Change you posters are.

dontcare

No, Bush put us into Afghanistan too. You can have your own opinion but you can't have your own facts.

dontcare

Are you talking about Gitmo that Bush started and the drones keep American Soldiers from being in harms way. Bush came up with the "enemy combatant" designation so the Geneva Convention or the Constitution didn't apply. Obama ok'd the play to kill Bin Ladin and got us out of Iraq, two pretty good things wouldn't you say? oh yea saved the car industry too

rjk1915

The plural of "knife" is "knives".

Dr. Information

I have 2.... .22LR guns. Both semi automatic. But because one has a wood stock and looks like a regular gun its not deemed an Assault Rifle. My other .22 is the same gun, same caliber, same semi automatic firing mechanism, same 10 round clip as my other gun, but because it has a military look to it, its called an AR (assault rifle). Makes absolutely NO SENSE.

Also handguns at a close range are just as effective, just as deadly and can be reloaded even faster.....AND lets not forget they can be concealed easier as well.

So whats next...attack handguns?

The Big Dog's back

So you take the nra position, more guns.

Dr. Information

Where in my post did I say that. My point was the Assault Rifle term is a joke. Its nothing more than a pretty looking, military wanna be semi automatic rifle. No more no different. If the look of these style of guns scare you then I guess dressing a Prius up like a Ferrari would scare you as well. Same analogy. Educate yourself before you try spouting off about guns you have ZERO clue about.

The Big Dog's back

OK, from now on they will be referred to as weapons of mass murder.

Dr. Information

Moderators have removed this comment because it contained Personal attacks (including: name calling, presumption of guilt or guilt by association, insensitivity, or picking fights).

jes1413

That seems like an appropriate term actually, so long as alchohol, cars, cigarettes, bombs, drugs, etc. are included.

jes1413

Just watched the news.. I guess we should ban arson and also parole for previously convicted murderers. Or instead of banning parole, the next time someone grants parole to a murderer, and that person goes out and kills again, the judge should be locked in a cell with the murderer the rest of his/her life. That might help.

richrs

The judge has nothing to do with parole. At least in Ohio.

dontcare

ah...arson is banned

2cents's picture
2cents

My big guy has only 10 rounds, is very acurate as well!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a...

Kimo

A 30-year-old Seattle man was killed and another man wounded in a shooting at a crowded bar in Bellevue, Washington, early Monday.

600 people in the bar and only one gun in the bar????

What is wrong with the other 599 people?

Don't those dummies know they would be safer packing heat?

Did some CCW miss a chance to be a hero?

Lots of questions here.

Kimo

The police chief in Webster, N.Y., says that four firefighters were shot while responding to a blaze in the town near Rochester and that two are dead. (Dec. 24)

What's the answer to this?

Machine gun on the fire truck?

2cents's picture
2cents

A real death penalty that is carried out, clean out the gean pool.

2cents's picture
2cents

Did you see the news, he wacked his grandmother, did jail time was out and set a trap for these guys. Long criminal history. Sounds like Sandusky. Death penalty right! Hope he was not a sperm donor too!

totallyamazed

?
?
Is "Big Dog" Matt Westerhold's alias?....lol. Big Dog's sure keeping this bedtime story going. Here I'll add some fuel.....

GO NRA!!! MORE GUNS LESS CRIME BABY
!
!

OMG.LOL.WT_

Why don't we ban all Assault weapons? Assault bats, Assault knives, Assault sharp sticks, Assault stones, I could go on all day.... Did y'all know there is a thing called verbal Assault? Ban people spouting off too. Oh, I guess we already have that. Watch what you say or they can call you a terrorist and ship you off to Gitmo. Merry Christmas to all.

The Big Dog's back

Here we go. Just like Global warming had to be changed to climate change, assault weapons will have to be changed to weapons of mass murder. The right wing mind, a myth.

dontcare

verbal assault is banned, your point is really weak. Baseball bats are not designed to kill, some knives are banned because of their design, sharp sticks used as weapons are banned. Guns designed to kill should be banned as well. 100 round banana clips aren't used for hunting, they should be banned.

vicariouslyAlive

the problem isn't too many guns. the problem is too many unlawful guns... just like the problem isn't too many drugs, just too many unlawful drugs... look at the pain killer epidemic... there are plenty of law abiding citizens that need pain killers as a result of accidents... so they go to the doctor and get a pain prescription and get their pills and live a life as normal as possible... then you have others that fake symptoms and try to get their hands on pills to just abuse or sell them... so by taking the logic of some of you people that means any time there is anything that can be aquired legally but is abused by another group of people it should be banned... so millions of people should be striped of their pain medication just because there's people out there that abuse it... same goes for guns. there are far more people in the the states the legally own and carry weapons in a responsible manner than those that have them illegally... and they never make the news unless they are saving lives... and even then it's down played to a "yay he helped" mentality... it's only when someone does something illegal with a gun that it gets any sort of attention... yes, we've had a dozen gun related massacres in the last few decades... but when those people misusing guns are put up against the number of people properly using guns... the numbers are greatly slanted to the responsible people...

it's already illegal to own assault weapons. in every place that there was a massacre it was already illegal to have a gun on the premises... and for most of the guns used, it was illegal for those perpetrators to even own them... (the columbine shooters using hand guns and the CT shooting the guy was carrying a hand gun... you have to be 21 bfore you can purchase those and the fact thaw sawing off the barrel of a shot gun is highly illegal.) so already there were a multitude of laws broken to insure safety from gun violence and yet, they prevented nothing. the definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting a different result... we've tried writing laws... they didn't work. we've tried regulation, it didn't work... it's time to try something new...

and yes, there are armed guards at banks... but not all of them. and if you look at most of the robberies that were committed, they happened at banks without guards. and when they happened at a bank with a guard, the guard was sorely out gunned. i have a few guns... and i know that an armed guard with tons of experience is still not match for few people with shot guns wanting to rob a bank...

Kimo

Moderators have removed this comment because it contained Personal attacks (including: name calling, presumption of guilt or guilt by association, insensitivity, or picking fights).

Randy_Marsh

They envisioned a society where the citizens were indefinately incarcerated and killed without a trial on the whim of a ruler though so I think they did a pretty good job myself.

dontcare

Could you explain what you're talking about?

Randy_Marsh

@Dontcare
Try to keep up with the times and maybe you will learn somthing. Turn off the MSNBC and check out the patriot act and the NDAA and the admin defending its right to incarcerate and kill citizens without a trial. The same things our constitution protects us from as it was abused by the king of england. Seriously, You have google, Try it somtimes and you will no longer feel the need to ask questions all the time.

dontcare

You are so ignorant of the facts that you confuse me. Bush, your hero, started the Patriot Act. Bush started to incarcerated prisoners in Gitmo without a trial. I can explain history to you but I can't understand it for you. I for one and fine with the fact that Osama Bin Lader and his henchmen are being killed without a trial. Please read a book, start with something simple with a lot of pictures. Doesn't the Aryan Nation print some second grade readers.

Randy_Marsh

@Dontcare
Bush is not my hero but he should be yours, After all you elected Bush 2.0 not once but twice. Bin lade was not a CITIZEN,He is not covered and it was a plus to get him, HOWEVER The admin is defending killing US CITIZENS and indefinatly incarcerating CITIZENS of the US. You might know this if you tried just a little bit to look up anything, But i am assured you never look up anything but rather get your infor from MSNBC of any other left wing rubbish.
Even your MSNBC does not agree with it and that says somthing. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k... Now look up the NDAA and put the two together like any rational human would.
The President will promptly sign NDAA Section 1031 into law, codifying who is eligible for "Detention under the law of war without trial." Without a trial, there is no chance to tell a judge that the government has no evidence. The worst thing about this law is that it originally exempted U.S. citizens, but now it dangerously does not specify either way (i.e. is "statutorily agnostic") -- because the Obama administration asked to REMOVE the exemption for citizens." This from Change.org, Even his own backers know it is wrong.http://www.change.org/petitions/...
Have fun Lemming.

dontcare

Randy, please relax, take a deep breath and realize your wrong. YOu have to know that the left is actually right. Please voluntariy turn in your guns before you hurt yourself. Instead of play acting for real, get a sony playstation there are alot of games where you can be a hero, you don't have to have a real gun. You can shoot bad guys and act like your rushing into buildings and saving people, you can even pretend to save all of us from the government if you want. I even think they have games now where you can play online against imaginary enemies.

Randy_Marsh

@dontcare
Didnt read it huh ? Guess what, You are the ignorant one and everone knows it, I have posted the links you would have to be retarded to reply, But you did. Guess what retard, You have been found to be mentally lacking. When you learn to read let the rest of us know so we can not waste our time trying to post crap to you when you are too stupid to even google anything.

dontcare

I don't have to google my opinions like you do. Unlike you, people dont tell me what to think. Now Im gonna watch doomsday preppers, then Im gonna watch Glenn Becks Christmas....I have it taped. Im then gonna watch Bill Oreily highlights from last year so I know what to think about things. Then Im gonna attend a protest against smart people, because they never agree with me. (once again this is sarcasm, google that)

jes1413

Do you think people didn't murder each other in the 1700s? Come on, get a grip.

Kimo

That constitution was drafted by a bunch thieves that stole land from the Indians and wanted to be sure they had guns to shoot the Indians that didn't agree. The meek did not inherit the earth; they ended up on a reservation.

Randy_Marsh

The move back to wherever and leave the rest of us alone if you do not like the freedoms the constitution provides. North Korea might be a good fit for you, They have no rights and agree with the whole shooting dissidents thing.
Yours didnt rhyme so you are slacking.

Contango

@ Kimo:

"The meek"? Tell that to the many settlers that were massacred. The respective ways of life were incompatible.

Gen. Sherman (a good OH boy) had the buffalo slaughtered, thus eliminating the Plains Indians' food supply.

Amendments are how the Constitution is changed

vicariouslyAlive

Nobody ever envisions the decay of a society. The right to bare arms wasn't to kill Indians, it was to keep the ruling class in check. We as citizens are at fault for the way things turned out... we forgot that it was our obligation to keep ourselves safe from the evils the foreign and domestic.

gilamonster

That’s nice Kimo, now tell us how many will die on American roads this holiday season? Or how many die on American roads each day, you would be so much safer keeping your hog parked in the garage. Driving is the single most dangerous thing most people will ever do. Regarding fireman, in 2010 more died from heart attacks or training accidents but it just doesn’t make sensational media, does it?

Oh really dog, you think it’s a dumb comparison? Both vehicles and guns are controlled by a plethora of laws and regulations. Vehicle manufactures as well as gun manufactures have had to continually make products safer. We have license and insurance requirement for vehicles. Yet how many times do people with suspended, revoked, no insurance get behind the wheel? Your logic is this: guy steals a truck from a law-abiding owner; he has no license, blows a stoplight and kills a family of three. Not only is it the vehicles fault but it is also the original owners fault for letting his truck get stolen. A charter bus driver has no CDL, the bus is not maintained, it crashes of an exit ramp killing and injuring college kids; hey its clearly the buses fault. I had someone cut chains and locks on an outbuilding, they stole chainsaws; clearly I am at fault for being an irresponsible chainsaw owner?

I know 5 people personally that died from guns (civilian) 3 ex-marines committed suicide, 1 was drunk and shot his buddy, 1 was a crime victim I can’t even tell you how many I know that died or had their lives forever changed by vehicles, motorcycles, or equipment. I say again think of all the lives we can save just by banning vehicles or restrict the sales of certain vehicles. Apparently flooding the streets with new cars is deadly? It is also obvious that vehicles such as motorcycles are just too deadly for the general population and should be banned. Only police and military should own one. Vehicle should be governed to just 55mph and 5 gallons of fuel, full roll cages for all. I mean why does anyone need a vehicle that can travel over 60mph or have several fuel tanks? Your vehicle has to be locked in a garage and micro-chipped to your body. This is the same logic anti-gun nuts use. I get killed on my way to work, local paper prints it; get shot it will be in every paper across the nation.

I am not against background checks,certain people shouldnt own a gun (Kimo or dog with a gun would scare the heck out of me)certain people shouldnt drive either.

Hey Kimo, wasnt it the US Government that eventually disarmed indians, I think this is how the Wounded Knee Massacre happened.After the Indians starting using rifles the government saw them as a threat and set out to disarm them. On another note, Sitting Bull carried a 45/70 rifle

2cents's picture
2cents

And America started going down the tubes when we created wellfair. When people can vote how to distribute tax monies collected that do not pay in the end of this country is near.
NO PAY ANY TAXES, NO VOTING!

sanduskysteve

That, my friend, would only elminate about the 10% who don't vote already - not a good comparison. Remember, because people don't pay extra taxes in April, doens't mean they don't pay any taxes by way of income withholding taxes. And students typically pay taxes on their part-time income in the same manner. You have no clue what you are talking about. You just don't like it becaause Obama won AGAIN. Welfare (proper spelling) was around long before Obama. And it does appear - even today - that it is the RICH (also not paying taxes in many cases) who are actually getting their say in where the money goes to by way of lobbying and donations to politicians. So only the middle part of what you say is correct.

The Big Dog's back

Purpose of a gun? To kill. Purpose of a car? Go to work. Go to school. Buy groceries. Visit Grandma. etc.

shucks

Drive a car to visit grandma and kill her with a gun--it all adds up.

Dr. Information

@Big, but so many more innocent lives are taken each year by cars. Another failed example by you. Keep trying.

The Big Dog's back

It is a very good example. You just refuse to accept it.

2cents's picture
2cents
dontcare

you can't hide a car in your pocket and pull it out, get into it and kill unsuspecting innocent people. Do you really think it's the same thing?

Cowboy

And yet 2 more people are killed today because of a coward hiding behind another assault rifle! And these were innocent unarmed firefighters responding to save lives. Cowards have guns! Fight me like a man, we will see who wins!

Dr. Information

assault rifle has nothing to do with it. Its a RIFLE. It does no more damage or shoots no faster than a semi auto rifle of the same caliber without the fancy military look.

These people are cowards, you have that right, but going ape crazy and banning everything isnt the answer. We need to make examples of these people. Hang them in the same streets they killed everyone, not lock them up forever so we can examine a broken brain.

Well obviously we all know you have to be crazy to do something like this. Normal people dont go out firing guns to kill people. Shoot these people, burn them alive, hang em high....doesn't matter to me, just don't go blaming society and guns and blame these broke people.

jes1413

That same coward also beat his grandma to death with a hammer about 30 yrs ago. Better get a ban on hammers.

dontcare

If hammers were solely designed to kill, they should also be banned

vicariouslyAlive

guns can provide food just as well if not better than a hammer can provide shelter... you're argument is invalid under the mentality.

dontcare

with 100 round drums

Dr. Information

Cars. Meant to drive but kill more people than guns each year. Ban cars. You can't win this argument. Lol.

dontcare

I already did

sanduskysteve

Dr of Information - please find information about the bans in Australia and Japan - apparently the only information you are a doctor of is what suits YOUR argument.

Randy_Marsh

If you punch someone that is classified as "Assualt" So lets thow you in jail even if you havent hit another person (Much like my weapon has never shot another)Because you are capable of assualt, Your a walking talking ASSAULT WEAPON waiting for its chance of hurting others! You need banned!!
This is how much sense the anti-gun crowd makes, Scared of everything on the planet and acting as though everything and anything needs banned because it has the ability to harm. That is the definition of cowardice.

dontcare

That's your example...are you kidding me? Randy think before you post, you wouldn't look so ignorant. I mean that in a good way.

dontcare

That's your example...are you kidding me? Randy think before you post, you wouldn't look so ignorant. I mean that in a good way.

Randy_Marsh

@Dontcare
I was responding to cowboys post above. Maybe if you could follow a post like a normal person you might understand it better, Then again if they would put the post directly under what i was responding to it would make more sense as well.

gilamonster

No, you dont have to drive, it is not a right; though many have no choice. Using your logic it is less tragic to get killed on the road because it is something you have to do? Though vehicles are not designed to kill, you cant dispute the facts; and most kill because of the operator. Nothing but a speeding bullet traveling down a road.Obviously too deadly for just any "Joe" to own. Those lives are less valuable? I had criss-crossed this country servicing and installing automation,and I cant even explain the carnage and mess of tangled vehicles I have seen. Dog seeing as your so against killing, I will just presume you are pro-life.....and against the death penalty.

gilamonster

Look out, the governments going to come take your mini van, your Kabar,and ban the sale of swimmimg pools; all deadly killing machines...lol. Would love to stay and spar, but its Christmas eve; happy holidays...........

Cowboy

So in the eyes of the NRA these fallen firefighters should have been carrying heat, because that would have prevented this.

jes1413

Maybe not granting him parole after murdering his GRANDMA with a HAMMER would have prevented this.

Kimo

A traffic stop turned into a fatal shooting on Christmas Eve when a gunman killed a police officer and bystander in the parking lot of a Houston body shop.

NRA propaganda robo posters are going to miss out on Christmas this year.

vicariouslyAlive

because of the amount of publicity this subject has gotten we're going to see gun homicides coming out of the woodwork... people tat want to be recognized are going to start opening fire because they know that their face and name will be spread around the globe... if we didn't make these people famous they'd have less of a reason to do this... any psychology major can tell you this... by having 24 hour coverage of these types of situations it only perpetuates the problem... after columbine and it's media coverage school shootings were a monthly thing... then when nobody cared anymore, media coverage stopped and so did the shootings... we can expect things like this to keep getting worse because now these deranged and emotionally unstable people have a sure fire way to get noticed.

getting rid of guns wont get rid of violence any more than getting rid of all dogs will get rid of all fleas...

and by the way... my gun has provided my family with 100 pounds of meat this year alone. when i put up the volume of meat vs. how much it cost me to get it... the meat has only cost me $0.13 per pound... so to say that a guns only purpose is to commit acts of violence would be absolutely wrong.. and yes, it was my ar-15 .223 cal semi-automatic with a 20 round clip. that got a few rabbits. my guns help feed my family as well as protect them. just the same as my car gets me to and from my job... the biggest difference is it'd be quite hard to use my car to defend my home. so really my guns serve more purposes in my house than my car does.

gilamonster

A woman dies in car crash, loses control of Toyota and slams into another car (South Carolina) on Christmas Eve. A woman dies in early morning Christmas Eve accident in Jacksonville. In Louisiana two small children die in a Christmas Eve fire, fireman said no working smoke detectors in the trailer. California, Christmas tree lights set tree on fire, traps two. I mean if your going to post tragedies at least be fair, this is only a small sampling.

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