NRA: Don't read this

Matt Westerhold
Dec 23, 2012

 

But most people cannot look away. They can only watch and grieve for those families, for those parents whose lives will never again be normal.

For now this tragedy is embedded in the American consciousness. For now. Perhaps the images of those beautiful children and courageous educators will stay embedded and we won't forget. And as a nation, maybe, just maybe, there will be forward movement that begins to address this persistent problem; this persistent debate.

The National Rifle Association weighed in on Friday, suggesting the solution to the epidemic of mass shootings should be addressed by placing armed guards at every school door. If it's a war you want, it's a war the NRA is willing to back.

The founding of the nation came from the end of a musket, and the fascination with weapons is natural and has grown. There is little need to regulate the very clear right of law-abiding citizens to own weapons. Yet there is still a need.

*Get the Sunday Register today at a newsstand near you or buy the e*Paper here for the rest of the column.

Most people would agree that private individuals should not be allowed to develop their own arsenal of nuclear weapons. By way of the NRA's logic in it's support of semi-automatic weapons and 60-round magazine ammunition, that's a violation of the Second Amendment.

Comments

Contango

@ Mr. Westerhold:

Armed security at schools is not a new idea.

"In Texas, the tiny Harrold Independent School District has allowed employees to have guns on campus for the past five years if they have a permit, have completed training and have received approval from the school board."

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB...

----------------------------

Children have enough real and/or imaginary fears without adding the thought of attending school to the mix.

Kudos to Peggy Noonan:

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB...

The Big Dog's back

Did that work at Columbine?

Publius

Okay! I'll bite. Please specifically state the new law that, if in place, would have stopped this tragedy. I am dying to know what law would have protected these children from a deranged person that stole fire arms to commit this attrocity.

underthebridge

I think Columbine had an armed officer. Read that single armed officer. Even that trained member of law enforcement was no match for those kids armed and ready to go to war.

Contango

The armed guard at Columbine was not initially present:

http://www.nydailynews.com/news/...

buckeye15

Then since 1 armed guard wasn't enough to stop Columbine I guess we should have what...5?...8?....10?....armed guards per school.....really?

John Harville

@Contango... and that's what Harold ISD chose to do. And that's how it should be. Interesting that all the BIG GOVERNMENT foes now want the government to put an armed guard in EVERY school at a cost of some $5 billion.... which will result in an increase in taxes.
Do you people ever read yourselves?

SamAdams

Here we go again: It's the gun's fault! It's the high-capacity magazine's fault! It's the NRA's fault! REALLY???

What about the declaration of "gun-free zones" where victims are sitting ducks because they're law-abiding and are, indeed, "gun free?" What about crazy people who should be restrained, but who are excused again and again and AGAIN with, "Let's try another pill," or "Yeah, but he'd never go THAT far!" or "But he's SICK! We can't blame him for THAT...!"

As for your editorial, Matt, you're right down there with other reporters who apparently have virtually zero clue as to what a semi-automatic is and isn't and how one works. I'm sure you'd have us all go back to muskets or revolvers (the latter, by the way, can be fired as quickly as any semi-auto weapon by somebody who knows what they're doing), and then gradually take THOSE away from decent people, too.

Meanwhile, you can't be bothered to report on almost-massacres like Pearl, Mississippi where a gun-toting whack job was stopped by (are you ready?) a law-abiding teacher with a gun. You don't discuss what would have been an even HIGHER body count at Virginia Tech because the shooter there was stopped by (oh, imagine that!) a student with a gun. Whatever else you think about the NRA, one thing rings true. The only thing that effectively stops a bad guy with a gun is a GOOD guy with a gun.

"The War on Guns." Brought to you by the same people who prosecute "The War on Drugs." Yep, make it illegal, and it will just go away as a problem! Maybe we should just make shooting innocent little kids a crime so nobody else dies! Oh, wait...

deertracker

It's not the video game's fault either!

dontcare

Should we arm the 6 year olds? More guns are not the answer. The lack of action on the part of the government says something about our society. The NRA spouts off a mindless chant like "the only thing that stops a bad guy with a gun is a good guy with a gun" and the gun nuts (sheep) get all excited. HOw about the only thing that will stop a mentally afflected psycho with a semi automatic rifle with a 30 round clip, is to make it a little more difficult for him to obtain one,

Matt, I want to make one thing perfectly clear, I don't like you at all, however I agree with your editorial.

Dr. Information

@dont care. What you fail to realize, like every other liberal, is that he wasn't able to get a gun. He tried and the measures in place stopped him. So, what did he do....stole some from his mother.

Besides a background check (which they do at every licensed gun vendor), what else do you want everyone to do?

dontcare

What you don't seem to realize because you only listen to things that support your view of the world is...he did get a gun and shot 26 people with it. I didn't say he walked into walmart and bought it. A lady, his mother, legally owned the gun, he took it. Don't say he didn't get a gun he obviously did. The word buy, bought, purchased, was never used. In summary the gun was purchased legally by someone, a nutjob "got" the gun and a tragedy ensued. You can take you 2nd amendment misinterpretations, and NRA rhetoric and feed it to the rest of your paranoid wannabe saviors of the republic. You are the best argument for gun control.

Dr. Information

So what you are saying is the current laws worked! He wasn't able to, buy law, obtain a gun, he had to steal it. Thanks for backing me up.

dontcare

The gun was used against the legal owner, which is typical

dontcare

if the current laws worked they need to be changed

John Harville

He got the guns because his responsible gun-owner mother who knew of his mental problems and was trying to commit him didn't get the guns out of the house or put them where he couldn't get them.
And you are the one misinterpreting the Second Amendment which was prompted by Shay's Rebellion in 1787 emphasizing the need for a standing army...or a militia in each state that could be called up by the president to put down rebellions by 'the people'. It was all Washinton's idea.

sanduskysteve

I'm sorry but in light of your exact words - it would appear that the background checks they did on the mother did absolutely NOTHING to keep him from getting a gun. If the gun wasn't there in the first place - he wouldn't have gotten it. Most guns that criminals have are stolen from a "responsible" legal gun owner. Or, as in the case of the Movie Theatre shooting, they criminal was actually the legal owner of the guns.

The bottom line is that the current system in place does not work - until it can be made to work something else has to be put into place. I would totally agree to single shot rifles and shotguns available for hunting - all other guns - get rid of them. The first amendment has been soo distorted it is difficult to read it with a straight face anymore - at least for the gun nuts. I grew up hunting with my grandfather - I never remembered him hunting with an assault weapon OR a handgun. Someone earlier wanted to know the plan - remove assault weapons and handguns from circulation - begin a REAL registration process for the hunting guns and stop all sales outside of registered gun dealers - INCLUDING private sales. Private sales can be done at legal gun shops after the proper registration process has taken place. Simple as that. Then the police arrest anyone they see with an illegal gun anywhere. A buy-back program can be put into place like they did in Australia 15 years ago - and they never had another mass shooting in 15 years. They were doing something right. Were they not? Japan is another good example of working gun control.

Dr. Information

The current laws worked. He couldn't get a gun so he had to steal one. So y'all want to blame the NRA for theft now? How about blaming this idiot murderer than the guns. You will never stop private sales. You plan will never work.

sanduskysteve

Not quite understanding why things can't work that work in other countries. And, no I am not blaming the NRA for thefts, I'm blaming those who purchase "legal" guns and then let them be stolen. I'm blaming the NRA for insisting that we need weapons of mass destruction. I'm blaming the right people, you just don't want to blame the right people because those people are claiming your "need" for high powered guns - with no reasonable explaintion as to why you need them other than a want for them. Excuses like they are already there is a real lame stupid excuse if you ask me. Do not use the self-protection excuse either because a 22 rifle or a 12 gauge shotgun will defend y our property just fine as well as allow for hunting of most animals. There are no african lions or elephants here to hunt. Just because someone was able to steal a gun, doesn't mean that the gun should be legal. And I do believe that private sales can be regulated in some way - OR someone gets arrested for illegally selling a gun. If you believe that guns should be purchased without registration requirements, then you are honestly telling us you have something to hide from the government. And does that indicate that you are not fully honest, a criminal, or something is going on. What are you afraid of that you wouldn't want registration and stricter laws regarding the availability of guns? I'm very confused. The excuse that criminals don't follow laws is also one I'm not interested in hearing - becaue if laws are passed and you don't follow them than you are, in fact, a criminal as well - and you are proving that you aren't following the laws either so - in this case, you may be right - criminals won't follow the laws. Something needs to work - and spending billions on school protection - locking up anyone with a mental condition or whatever is NOT the solution to this problem.

John Harville

Background checks at gun shows. Waiting periods (which is why he didn't buy a gun). Inventory. Prevent irresponsible persons from getting guns. Despite all the NRA rants, no one has said 'take away all guns'.

John Harville

@ Samadams.... you need to check your facts. Three students were killed in Pearl and two others injured. The assistant principal kept the kid from driving away by holding the revolver on him while police arrived. And where did you get your Virginia Tech information? But, why bother with facts or investigation.

John Harville

@SamAdams. Wrong. Nobody says it's the guns. Nobody says it's the ammo. Nobody says it's the NRA>
Cuz guns and ammo and the NRA don't kill people. Dum basses with guns and ammo kill people. Well... guess we have to leave the NRA in the mix.

mikel

the nra is taking some heat for their position at this time. but, can any one dispute the following. kids get home from school and play their gaming systems that, a majority of games sold, have extreme violence. go to the movie theatre a violence abounds. turn on the tv and violence is everywhere!

the nra is merely suggesting that if you are going to look at gun control then you must look at those violent avenues as well.

The Big Dog's back

They are not suggesting that at all. They are saying NO NEW GUN LAWS.

John Harville

@Mikel. Yeah I'll dispute that kids.....blah blah blah. Again you decided to blather on and on and don't give any facts to support your contention.
So I can play your game. Can anyone dispute the following: gunowners get home from work and get out their guns to stroke and polish them and get stimulated by them and go out and shoot a few rounds into the air or shoot a few cans and then go inside and sit down with their gaming systems that, a majority of games sold, have extreme violence. Gun owners can go to those r-rated films with arms shot and violence abounds. Or they sit down with their case of beer to watch porn and violence on TV or from their private stash of videos.
Wow. See what can be done with generalizations?

EdO's

Perhaps one needs to look at the common theme in all these mass shootings which is the use of psychotropic prescriptions.
http://naturalsociety.com/connec...

Cowboy

Oh, okay NRA, thanks for placing blame on the schools that don't have armed guards at ALL the entrances of schools, stores, banks, theaters, water parks, golf courses, sporting events, concerts, funerals, church services, hospitals, etc....... Hey NRA, if it's a war you want, then move to the Middle East! Here in the USA we still like are peaceful streets. Tougher and common sence gun laws are forthcoming. Not a thing you can do about it either! Here's one I heard the other day, and if it were law then those babies would still be alive today.......the owner of a gun that is used in a crime will receive the same punishment as the assailant. In this case, the gun owner might not have been so lacks with their weapons and might have had them locked up!

Randy_Marsh

The owner of the gun recieved the same sentence, She is dead. "Tougher and common sence gun laws are forthcoming." Great, The criminals can ignore them as well! Lets try a little common sense, Why don't we blame the idiot who shot the kids instead of the entire society?

The Big Dog's back

So you apply the same theory that why tax the rich, they will just pass it down, as you do for new gun laws. Oh boy.

Randy_Marsh

? I guess I am getting rusty in liberal speech, What do you mean? You want new gun laws so criminals can ignore them too? Or do you want to blame everyone in a different class to show off your victimizational skills, I know it comes natrally to racist to lump entire sections of the population together as to be able to hate them easier, But who are you actually trying to blame besides affluent white guys?

The Big Dog's back

I guess I will 4th grade it for you. You don't want new gun laws because you say the criminal won't follow them antways, just like you say don't tax the rich because they won't pay it anyways, just pass it down the food chain. What logic. Why do we even have any laws?

Randy_Marsh

Why not enforce the laws we have? I know its a novel idea and all, Just think about what you are asking for and will it actually work.

pjgrondin

We don't need new, stricter gun laws because all that does is make law abiding citizens 'criminals' simply for owning a larger clip or a certain type of gun. Does nothing to stop or slow down the person intent on killing. There are many you tube videos showing how quickly a six or ten round clip can be changed. Banning these clips is a 'feel good' law at best.

dontcare

Murderers ignor the homicide law too, should we do away with?

formeremployee

Ah yet another person that only saw the highlight clip the mainstream media showed. If he would've saw the whole clip he'd realize that the Wayne Lapierre NRA's VP said that placing armed guards at the schools was the only immediate way to protect our chilren. You can pass all the laws you want to, they take time to pass and to make a difference. You can stop the sale of all weapons right now, but what does that do about the millions of illegal and legal weapons that are already out there? Nothing. what's to stop some whacko nutjob from waiting in his truck outside the school and then mowing over a bunch of kids while they are waiting for their bus? Lets ban vehicles too.

The Big Dog's back

Is the NRA (Not Right for America) willing to finance this?

Dr. Information

Why should it be their responsibility. Should McDonalds be paying for all the heart and health related issues that plague this nation because of obesity. Lets just blame everyone else but the shooter.......the TRUE liberal way.

The Big Dog's back

This is about blaming the shooter and his easy access to weapons of mass murder.

Dr. Information

How did he have access? He couldn't buy a gun, his background check was denied. So what else do you want to do? Your wording is just so annoying. A semi auto rifle is not a weapon of mass murder. Should every car accident involving multiple deaths be labeled a weapon of mass murder?

The Big Dog's back

THEY WERE IN HIS HOUSE!

2cents's picture
2cents

So it is mothers falt "but she is dead, four rounds to the head" so we have to blame something right?

Dr. Information

@Big.....They were not in his HOUSE. They were in his MOTHERS HOUSE, UNLOCKED. So blame the Mom don't blame the gun. The gun didn't kill these innocent kids. This wacked out kid did. Unless somewhere in your magical world guns can walk and kill people without a trigger being pulled by someone.

Kimo

When I hunted open water ducks from my sink box, I had to have a plug in my shotgun. The plug limited me to three shots. If I took the plug out and got caught by a crick, it was off to court.
At the time I was an NRA member.
About the same time it became clear the NRA was a "tool" for the gun manufacturers and I was just a pawn/vote for their mission. I canceled out. I never imagined at the time that we would be where we are today.

Contango

@ Kimo:

So your point is that you were an ignorant victim?

Contango

Again, it seems that we've forgotten the Chardon HS shooting from earlier this yr. The kid had few outward signs and used a .22 revolver.

http://www.cleveland.com/chardon...

buckeye15

And how many died? Big difference.

Dr. Information

So because there was only a few deaths.....its less important. Typical liberal mindset. Use the large tragedies to make your point but just pass on by the small ones. If there was only a kid or two killed in this event, I doubt all this talk would be happening. But because there were 26 killed, every left winger has to spout off about guns....which many do not own nor know a thing about. Spout off about control, when many know nothing about the current laws....and have the typical loud cry to ban ban ban ban ban. Ban everything until we cannot walk out of our homes for fear that a meteor could come down out of the sky and kill us.

Innocent kids are killed daily by car accidents. Where is the outcry for banning cars?

buckeye15

Moderators have removed this comment because it contained Personal attacks (including: name calling, presumption of guilt or guilt by association, insensitivity, or picking fights).

Dr. Information

VA Tech shooting. 32 dead. Killer used a .22 semi handgun and a 9mm semi Glock handgun.......so whats your point? Failed attempt by you again to make a good comparison.

Contango

buckeye15 writes:

"And how many died? Big difference."

So the families and friends of those three murdered children and the others who were wounded should merely be thankful that there weren't more casualties?

Dr. Information

That is exactly the liberal mindset. Because on shooting in the past only had 3 deaths, it wasn't that important. Try telling that to the families that lost someone innocent to a murder.

dontcare

try spewing your weapon fanatiscm to the family that lost someone to a murder

chasf

maybe we need to get rid of gun free zones seems to have worked in Oregon, but you don't hear about it
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B...

Whiskey Tango F...

What about the irresponsiblity of the mother who lived in denial of her sweet little boy? What about the weapon(s) that were not secured and ammunition that was readily available? If you want to start blaming lets start there. Every gun and every bullet we own needs to either be locked up, or loaded and carried. Even if the shooter has been to the range and knew how to shoot, had the weapons been secured this could not have happened.
Now for controlling mental illness. I feel that the BEGINING of the solution to our society is 25% firearms, 75% mental health regulation. Overall it is 100% the responsibilty of our once great nation to secure our guns and ammunition and address mental health of our friends and family members who are struggling to survive in our new crazy rollercoaster society.

looking around

I liked an idea I heard last night for schools, all double door entrances with the inner doors being a bared gate that could be retracted at the beginning and end of school hours to eliminate the prison look but in place through out the school day. If the outer doors and security such as buzzers are breached the intruder finds themselves in a small vestibule blocked access by the barred door "gate" only school personnel could allow access beyond that point.

samiam

Easy for someone who has armed Secret Service protection for himself and his family to call for gun control. All I want is the same protection that Obama and his family are provided. My life is just as important as his.

The Big Dog's back

Really? So are you willing for your taxes to quadruple to cover this?

Randy_Marsh

Guess what Clinton said about this in 2000? It is fun to watch you people argue with yourself.

Rich Close

LOL!! An obama supporter whose worried about tax increases! A true Oxymoron.

pjgrondin

The US spends BILLIONS of tax dollars to maintain overseas bases and gives away BILLIONS of dollars to foreign countries. It is time to close most of those bases and bring our troops home. Build or revitalize the bases in our country and use some of the money saved to provide security for our people, both at our southern border and in our schools. It would also help the economy overall because the money would be spent in the US versus abroad.

TaxRaider

Unfortunately we live in a society where we need to protect our children even when they are in school. Educators are responsible for educating children and safety should be the responsibility of security professionals. It is time to put security professionals (law enforcement, veterans, armed professionally trained individuals) in all schools. Schools encounter many situations where trained security professionals are needed ie, irate parents, intoxicated parents, gangs, drugs, weapons, etc. Rarely do I support paying additional taxes but I am willing to pony up to create a safer environment for children.

reporter54

I am more apt to go along with the NRA than panic-striken parents wanting to put an end to all gun ownership. There has been little mention of the real problem (mental illness) and the fact that all the shooters of all the shootings had issues of mental illness. Having cops in schools is not a bad idea for many reasons; I just wonder if we will be able to afford that in every school everywhere.

The Big Dog's back

I haven't seen any legislation to take away all guns. Enlighten me.

SamAdams

It's called the UN Treaty on Small Arms. Google it. And note that by SIGNING such a treaty, Obama would actively be committing treason since it would supercede the Constitution. By design, as it happens.

The Big Dog's back

Puhleeze sam, not more right wing nuttery.

Randy_Marsh

Dog doesn't know how to use Google or he would not say half the idiocy he spouts.

dontcare

Uh.....what???

worddrow811

How many of us raised our sons with toy guns? How many of us think that violence is entertainment? How many of us are going to watch the made-for-tv movie of this horrific tradgedy?

People who are determined to kill will find a way, pure and simple, whether it's other people or themselves.

Until we are all willing to live peacefully, there will be no peace. It's our choice.

The Big Dog's back

I agree we will always have incidents. But we can try to limit the number killed in these incidents by enacting some reforms.

SamAdams

Okay, Big Dog, I'll bite: What reforms would you suggest? Please be specific, and indicate how each would have successfully worked to prevent Aurora, Newtown, et al. I'll wait.

Dr. Information

expect no answer sam. Just like every other liberal out there. They finger point all the time, but when asked to fix the problem.....POOOOOFFF.......they disappear.

sanduskysteve

Kind of simple really - no access to guns. Those incidents would not have happened - try to argue with that. Do not argue with why guns are legal - argue that no guns would have prevented the incidents.

Dr. Information

So whats next ban baseball bats.....they murder innocent people each year also. Ban gas cans and gas and cars....kill innocent people each year. Guns are legal, and they always will be. Your point is irrational, moot and has no water. Take away all guns.....Bahahaha........yeah, like thats going to happen.

And a person who wants to kill will kill no matter if there are guns or not. This kid would of just bashed his mothers face in with a bat or hammer, went to the same school and tried taking out as many as he could with a knife or axe or whatever.

You silly liberals always blame the inanimate object instead of looking at the real problem.....the person.

luvblues2

Cram it, Matt. You saw how Emil's article garnered quite a few posts in three days and now you're trying to one up him by starting another discussion. Emil asked people questions. You didn't. All you said was "Don't Read This". That's like the book back in 1970 that Abbie Hoffman wrote entitled, "Steal This Book".

Nice try, Matt. Emil kicked your ass.

The Big Dog's back

The head of the NRA was on Meet the Press this morning and claims the solution would be to arrest more drug dealers. Really?? Adam Lanza, Jacob Roberts, Andrew Eddinger, James Holmes, Wade Page, Jared Loughner, Hui Choi were not drug dealers.

Randy_Marsh

So do not arrest drug dealers and go after law abiding citizens seeing they are the only ones going to be punished with a new law.

Rich Close

Do you ever post anything of substance, Dog?
Why don't you address how many people were murdered by your Obama's Eric Holders illegal act to provide guns internationally to the worst drug cartel in Mexico. If you were a TRUE American you would stand up and shout for JUSTICE to those who were murdered by this illegal and treasonous act, how about it BD, should Eric be accountable along with Obama or are you strictly a registered Democrat who ignores what is just and right?

The Big Dog's back

Gee, we have a boatload of treasonous people to try 1st don't ya think? Bush Cheney, Rumsfeld, Lindsey Graham, John McCain. The list is never ending.

Rich Close

Just what I thought, nothing to say or contribute.

sanduskysteve

I'll contribute - you are right we SHOULD arrest the person that started the program - his name is G Bush.

Dr. Information

@ Big Dog....is that all you do is spill left wing BS. You can't even stick your initial posts. You just move down the isle and post some other BS. What controls do you want. Explain. If you can't defend what you are posting then just pipe it little puppy.

beepx22

while we're trying for treason, let's not forget Obama, Hillary Clinton, Eric Holder... You're right the list is never ending.

Dr. Information

almost posted this beep, but you beat me to it. Just understand the liberal mindset.....everyone that is a Republican is a killer a man of treason...etc. The Dems are harmless, do not wrong and when they do they just blame Bush.

tk

Good article, Matt.

eriemom

First, remember that Columbine High School had an armed guard when discussing this. Schools have multiple entry points and many windows. My questions are:
1.) Why did this killer get into a car and drive to another community to get to an elementary school?
2.) Why this school? Are there schools in the community that he lived?
3.) Why a school at all? Why not a mall, sporting location, anywhere that large numbers of people congregate?
4.) Will we, as a society, continue to blame our schools for every problem?

Contango

The armed guard at Columbine was not initially present:

http://www.nydailynews.com/news/...

The Big Dog's back

He WAS present! They shot right by him.

pjgrondin

Not true. He stated that he was not initially present and went back to the school and engaged the two assailants. That's when they shot at him.

The Big Dog's back

Yes true. He was there before they entered the school.

mikeylikesit

blame schools? maybe i missed something but it seems to me a few people are blaming nutballs with weapons while most others are blaming only the inanimate weapons..

G George I du kno

No matter what laws or security you have if someone wants to commit a mass killing they will find a way. They will find a way to get in and they will find a way to kill. There is nothing we can do to stop these psychopaths. Noone except school staff and students should be allowed in the school for any reason. Place the office, with metal detectors at the doors at the front of the school. Beyond the office would be another set of doors that remain locked at all times and noone gets past for any reason. Ya, we might lose a couple of office workers but the kids would be more safe. Cops should be at the doors when school lets in and out as part of their daily routine. Train competent teachers who are willing to undergo extreme firearms training to have weapons in a locked case in their room that only they could access in case of a shooting. Heavy doors with no windows on class rooms with heavy locks so shooters cant get in or see in the room. There are a lot of people with good ideas and things schools can do.

luvblues2

Turn schools into prisons? What is wrong with you people?

luvblues2

This whole "We had to destroy it to save it" mentality is severely flawed. Get a freakin' grip!

Contango

"Because while guns may or may not kill people, the bottom line is that of the 32K or so death attributed to firearms, roughly 20K, or two thirds were suicides, meaning firearm-based homicides were 11,015 in 2010."

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/20...

Heart disease kills more Americans than guns; where's the outrage?

sanduskysteve

During that same year, Japan has 10 and Australia has ZERO. Gun control does work - it's only the NRA and gun nuts that claim it doesn't.

themomx6

m

observer

Ban ALCOHOL!!! I'll bet it's killed MORE people than guns have!!! Matt, you and your homie, Rufus, are BOTH liberal nutjobs!

Kimo

Wayne, the man at the NRA was paid $960,000.00 in 2010.
Not bad for a fence jumper.
Would be interesting to see a breakdown of where that money comes from.
Guns are big business..... big money.... money talks.

Rich Close

Who is better to speak concerning this issue than the father who lost a Child Columbine ....

Darrel Scot, the father of Rachel Scot who died trying to saying her friends in Columbine spoke to the House Judiciary committee and stated facts without the emotional unsubstantiated drivel we have been hearing and reading.

"""after the Columbine tragedy, I was amazed at how quickly fingers began to be pointed at groups such as the NRA. I am not a member of the NRA, I am not a hunter, I do not even own a gun, I'm not here to represent or to defend the NRA, because I don't believe they are responsible for my daughter's death, therefore I don't believe they need to be defended by me. If I believed that they had anything to do with Rachel's murder, I would be their strongest opponent. I am here today to declare that Columbine was not just a tragedy; it was a spiritual event which should be forcing us to look at where the real blame lies. Much of that blame lies here in this room - much of that blame lies behind the pointing fingers of the accusers themselves."""

Did the Register report on this important speech? I don't think the Register printed or reported his prayer either.

""Your laws ignore our deepest needs.
Your words are empty air.
You’ve stripped away our heritage.
You’ve outlawed simple prayer.
Now gunshots fill our classrooms
And precious children die.
You seek for answers everywhere
And ask the question, “Why?”
You regulate restrictive laws
Through legislative creed.
And yet you fail to understand
That God is what we need."

The entire speech may be viewed here, those who don't believe in God will most likely be offended. http://tinyurl.com/blfu5vz

The Big Dog's back

Dylan Klebold and Eric Harris's parents lost children at Columbine too. Does that mean we are to listen to them also?

jes1413

Columbine occured during the last assult weapons ban. Clearly didn't work, did it?

jes1413

Columbine occured during the last assult weapons ban. Clearly didn't work, did it?

The Big Dog's back

So are you saying this assault weapons ban should include more?

jes1413

I'm saying weapons bans don't work, since criminals don't follow laws. Give me an example of a law that has never been broken. Criminals are criminals for a reason. There are laws against 20-yr olds having handguns, that one wasn't effective. Neither was the law against shooting people. If banning all guns would eliminate the problem, and stop innocent children from being killed, I'd be all for it. But banning guns only takes them away from those who follow the laws, and who need their weapons to protect themselves from the ones who don't.

Laws do not prevent crimes, they simply make those actions punishable. Can't punish a coward that turns the gun on himself.

The Big Dog's back

Well, I'll ask you, why do we have any laws?

Rich Close

Lets start with your buddy Holder, what good were existing laws when your party won't prosecute anyone in your party.

Also, why did Obama take away the funding that was available for this and others schools to use for security? I suggest you get questions from those you voted for instead of seeking them from those you voted into position of authority. Why isn't this being addressed before school starts up again instead of surfing in paradise?

The Big Dog's back

Who won't he prosecute and history behind it. Cite specifically the funding and when it happened.

Randy_Marsh

http://www.cnn.com/2012/06/29/po... Theres one for you. Held in contempt by congress his own agency will not follow through.

The Big Dog's back

Leave it to you rand to come up with this from top criminal and traitor darrel issa.

Randy_Marsh

Congress voted, It is HIS job to enforce it. You asked A question and I answered it, Facts are hard things to argue with. Issa was not held in contempt, Holder was, Now the DOJ needs to do their jobs and prosecute.

The Big Dog's back

Whatever.

Randy_Marsh

@Bid dog
Beware of asking questions you do not care to hear the answer to. Why doesnt the DOJ prosecute Holder? Oh I know because they are corrupt and your god is the head of it.

The Big Dog's back

It was a political witch hunt. Remember, bush started the program and Obama ended it. Just like the Iraq war.

Randy_Marsh

That does not address the fact that no one is being prosecuted, You asked for a example of someone not being prosecuted by the DOJ, I gave you a answer. The rest have never been labeled by congress, He has prosecute, After all ITS HIS JOB.

dontcare

The reasson they don't prosecute is because they would need Obama to testify, Obama has executive privilege which comes from the constitution (separation of powers) Without that testimony there is no case. Now is it only the 2nd amandment you support or the entire contstitution?? Or are you only quoting the constitution because it's convient for you gun nuts.

jes1413

We have laws to attempt to deter the actions those laws are against. Therefore, a person must make a decision, much like a cost benefit analysis, they have to choose if the risk of punishment is worth that of the benefit of the action. Unfortunately, much of the punishments are not severe enough to deter the actions, or some criminals do not think they will be caught and punished. And in like cases like massacres when the gunman takes his own life, the punishement does not need to be considered, as they have no intention to live long enough to be caught and tried. Therefore, laws, which lead to punishment, are irrelevant to the madmen that kill themselves after commiting crimes. This is why no law will ever eliminate these crimes. The people committing these heinous acts are irrational. Laws are most effective for those people who care about families, have careers, something valuable that will be lost when the person committing the crime is punished. In our society, life is considered the most valuable, which is why the loss of life is the punishment for the worst crimes. However to people who have no value of life (ie those who kill innocent children), the loss of life is not punishment, hence the reason they don't follow the laws, and don't blink an eye at killing children or themselves.

The Big Dog's back

So do you think if there were laws in place to prohibit 30 round clips and assault weapons, Adam Lanza's mother would have gotten them anyway?

jes1413

Maybe she would have, maybe she wouldn't have. Maybe she tried to stop her son and that's why shes dead, we won't know.
Tell me though, how many 5 round clips does it take to add up to 30? How long does it take to change a clip? Only a few seconds last time I shot my gun. I think any normal citizen with heart would be willing to give up 30 round clips if it would save lives, but it won't. Take away 30 round clips, the next person will buy more clips and load them in advance or they will simply bring more guns with clips loaded.

Yes, I am a proud gun owner, but I DO think there need to be tighter gun laws. It shouldn't be as easy as handing over your drivers liscence and checking a few boxes to get guns. There should be required training courses BEFORE you can purchase, even without the intention of concealing, possibily mental health evals, wait periods, and they should also preach gun safety and secure storage like they preach the bible.

I'm not against tighter restrictions, but you're all barking up the wrong tree. Less bullets in a clip will not result in less deaths, it will result in more clips and more guns. A .22 is equally as dangerous as a .380, and a revolver can kill as many people as a semi automatic rifle.

Taking away all guns, as impossible as that is going to be any time soon, would not solve the problem either. It hasn't worked in the UK. Their violent crimes have increased. And like I said, take away their guns, they'll get creative. If theres a will, theres a way. The largest school massacre in the U.S. was carried out with a bomb, and the kids at Columbine had some made too, so bombs aren't out of reach for anyone. Lets be realistic, how many murders have there been in Sandusky, and how many of these people have been killed with guns? Guns don't pull their own triggers, and people have plenty of other methods to kill each other.

The Big Dog's back

Patricia Maisch looks like a grandmother, but she is being hailed as a hero today for helping to stop alleged Tucson shooter Jared Loughner by wrestling away a fresh magazine of bullets as he tried to reload.

pjgrondin

Would have been easier and quicker and maybe saved more lives if she were armed and shot him before he emptied the clip and had to reload.

jes1413

There are lots of heroes who put bullets in the heads of scum bags too, with the guns they conceal.

SamAdams

Laws only exist for two reasons, and NEITHER of those reasons have anything to do with decent people. Seriously, do you actually NEED a law that says murder is illegal to prevent you from killing at random? Yeah, me, neither.

Laws ORIGINALLY existed solely to provide for punishment. Now there's another and rapidly escalating component: Laws exist to permit others CONTROL over you.

I'm not going to argue with the former (much), but the latter is a very good reason we're in some of the trouble we're in!

jes1413

Totally agree (except things like speeding tickets). Most people do not need laws to prevent them from doing awful things, and unfortunately, the people who need to be prevented from doing these things don't give a d*mn about the laws we have now or the laws we're going to make. No law would have made this kid, or any of the ones before him stop and say "maybe I shouldn't do this, its against the law". No law can actually stop people from doing anything, and if they can't get guns, they'll get creative and use something else. If theres a will, theres a way, right?

The Big Dog's back

So laws aren't deterrents sam? Well, there goes the death penalty as a deterrent.

richrs

Has the death penalty ever been a deterrent? In my opinion no.

2cents's picture
2cents

Ditto!

The Big Dog's back

So, are any laws deterrents?

richrs

Some are. Some aren't. I'm not planning on robbing a carry-out today, but I will probably catch myself speeding again.

pjgrondin

If the death penalty would be used within a reasonable period of time (maybe a maximum wait of a year or two at most), it would be a deterrent. But when a guy lives on death row for twenty years, hard to show any real consequence for such heinous crimes.

2cents's picture
2cents

http://www.amazon.com/Ragnars-Bi...

As a kid I enjoyed playing with and making explosives, BEFORE Al Gore invented the internet : ) I made a SAM (surface to air missile) in grade school with basic products from the drug store. My dad hauled dynamite in his bicycle basket from the hardware store for blowing stumps out.

The real problem is society, loss of basic morals. I still believe the gruesome video games desensitize people that plan these sort of massacres as well as teach them tactics.

sanduskysteve

If the gun wasn't there, he wouldn't have gotten it in the first place. Responsible gun owners prevent others from getting their guns - so stop spreading lies that we need more responsible gun owners - there isn't such a thing in reality. Ask Japan and Australia if gun control works. They will say yes it does.

jes1413

Many of the people who go on these shooting rampages also wear black combat boots, black cargo pants, black trench coats, etc. Maybe we should also ban this style of clothing, since it is clearly linked to shooting sprees.

Restless1

Matt: What are you smoking?

2cents's picture
2cents
EdgeOfTheH20

FYI ~ CSPAN National Rifle Association Briefing 2:30 pm ET

KURTje

Same old stuff.--- Most of the harangue has been repeated.--- Look in the mirrior.

gilamonster

I would say the liberal media might be missing the boat; NRA memberships have soared to over 8k new a day. Thanks to Obama and Pelosi knee jerk reaction to this tragedy gun sales are out of sight. I exercised by second amendment right yesterday and the gun store was packed. No not with hillbillies but with everyday people and sportsman.
The media love this type of tragedy, ohh- looky see how evil guns are. Look at some CDC facts. What kind of self- righteous parent would ever let their kid near an automobile? Vehicles are kid killers and God forbid you should let your teen ride with another teen driver. What kind of good parent would ever let their baby near a pool or body of water? Bicycles, forget about. Think of all the injuries and lives that could be saved if we banned all these evil killers. Sure we have laws, helmets, airbags, “smart cars” but that doesn’t prevent some idiot with no license from crashing into you or some lazy parent not buckling up their kid in a car seat.
Want to feel all safe and trust the government to take care of you, move to the UK where they have some of the toughest gun laws; sure worked for them with big brother and cameras everywhere? Stabbings are common place. Looks like samurai swords are too deadly for people to own? Maybe we need Australia’s law, where you can’t use a firearm to defend yourself, what happened after that law was passed?

The Big Dog's back

United Kingdom, 138 deaths by gun.

sanduskysteve

Australia hasn't had a mass killing in over 15 years - that's what happened after that law passed - go check it out again because you obviously have bad information. They still get to hunt though. ANd it only took ONE mass killing to put them into action and get the problem solved.

Mojo

Has it been so long ago that we forgot we lost three innocent children lives in our own community by the hands of two adults? There were no guns involved...so why would making any gun illegal? Murderers are not going to follow the rule of thumb (law). We just leave the doors open to more murder and crime when we leave ourselves unprotected. The police cant be everywhere. Try instituting positive policies in the school system, allow principals or vices to carry and conceal, train them to defend just as our police are trained. Put security doors with pass code card on the classrooms rather than spending millions making fancy new schools. If the school system took some of the money I have seen spent on football fields in Erie County, we would have the most secured school in the country. Leave the guns in the hands of law abiding citizens, they are NOT the ones to worry about.

mikeylikesit

amen!

Cowboy

NRA=Not Really Apathetic

Kimo

You people can smear all the lipstick on this pig you want.

It won't bring back those twenty kids and or put a smile on their parents face.

We are becoming a society where life has little or no value.

This is a country where a couple of oilmen can get a brain fart to start a war based on a lie, cause over four thousand deaths and over thirty thousand wounded, and half the country has no problem with that.

Twenty kids die and half the country could give a spit and spends the day trying to convince the other half they are crazy. They think we should borrow more money from Japan and China to turn schools into prisons.

Randy_Marsh

http://articles.latimes.com/2000... Clinton came up with the cops in school thing, Still dont like it?

The Big Dog's back

So rand, are you willing to pay more taxes for this?

Randy_Marsh

Actually I would rather be taxed for somthing like this instead of buying solar companys and paying off campaign donors. But everyone knows those in washington would just hand it to their buddys instead of actually doing anything decent with it. So you agree with the NRA now that you know that clinton tried this in 2000?

The Big Dog's back

I don't agree with nutty organizations. Wouldn't you know it: it turns out crazed school shooters have no qualms about shooting at armed guards, who, it also turns out, aren't necessarily effective at stopping gun-crazy madmen. After shooting at the guard, Harris and his partner, Dylan Klebold, stormed the school and were able to kill 13 people. After that, they killed themselves, effectively disproving the notion that "the only way to stop a bad guy with a gun is to have a good guy with a gun." Columbine had a good guy with a gun, and the bad guys with the guns killed a bunch of kids and then stopped themselves.

luvblues2

Armed guards in schools are decoration. They are so bored and when something does happen, they are caught "off guard". If I were to rob a bank or kill school kids, the first thing I would do is take out the good guy who had a gun. This is pointless. The element of surprise always wins over tedious standing around doing nothing.

Randy_Marsh

So you disagree with your namesake? Or are you only disagreeing because the NRA reintroduced it?

The Big Dog's back

It doesn't work, I disagree with it. I don't want our schools becoming prisons just so some gun nuts can have assault weapons and 30 round clips. And where do criminals get these guns? Oh yeah, they steal them from the people who do have them. Imagine that.

Pages