BLOG: Abortion Is A Dirty Word

Bryan Dubois
Sep 16, 2010

The mere mention of the word is controversial - even though supporting the right to abortion is a tenet of the modern day Democratic party.

Debate any abortion supporter and they'll object to your use of the phrase 'pro-abortion' to describe their position. They'll claim that using the phrase in unfair and inaccurate because nobody wants abortions.  Nobody likes abortion.  The existence of such a grisly, barbaric act exists to the dismay of all, you see.  Democrats simply believe that a woman should have the right to choose whether or not to have an abortion.

So if you oppose abortion, don't bother demonizing those who don't.  All people recognize the inhuman nature of terminating a child's life because of the inconvenience the child may introduce into the parent's life.  Yes, the majority of abortions in this country fall under this category.

So don't bother.  You couldn't possibly demonize a concept that most people feel uncomfortable talking about already.  What you should do is continue pointing out the reality of abortion.  Abortion can only exist if supporters don't have to face the reality of abortion. 

For example:  How many supporters of abortion would be willing to describe to you - during a debate - the detailed procedure of a D & X abortion?  (aka dilation & extraction, partial-birth abortion).  If any of them even know the details of the procedure, I'd bet money that they'd decline to explain it to you. 

Common sense says, I'm not going to explain the procedure because I'd sound like a monster for supporting it.  Can we just describe it as a 'medical procedure?'

Opposers should concede that the act is a "medical procedure" by responding with a poster of an aborted child with the Hippocratic oath posted beneath it.

"...never do harm to anyone."

Let common sense do the arguing.

You might as well agree with them that abortion is wrong and that nobody likes it - and then simply point out that on such a divisive issue there are two groups of people: 

Those who disagree with abortion because it's inhuman and wrong, and those who disagree with abortion because it's inhuman and wrong - but are quite willing to tolerate it.

***

Kinda related:

What's in a name?

The makers of high fructose corn syrup have abandoned the idea of doing a name-saving campaign. 

Once a word has become so reviled, you can't even mention it without turning people off.

Comments

Raoul Duke

That's---it IS ok to question your belief in God. Try it sometime.

Bryan Dubois

Brutus, information on what?   The idea that most Democrats don't believe in God? 

I'll make you a deal:  I'll show you my source right after you show me your source for the following statement you made:  "Most Republicans go through life being greedy, profits at any cost mentality, have hate and disdain for poor unfortunate people, but when confronted with imminent death, they all of a sudden want to repent and find God."

Jimmy,  I question my belief in God every single day.  Just like I question the theory of evolution every day.  I look at the wonder of my children, the fascinatingly complex world around me, people caring for one another, supporting one another, sacrificing for one another and it inevitably leads me back to the idea that I am not God and that there is so much I am not meant to understand.

Creation, for instance.  Whether you believe this universe was created in a "Big Bang" or 7 days as described in the bible, or through Darwin's theory of evolution, there must be a creator somewhere.

Some scientists have concluded that all of life originated from a single protoplasm living on a rock hurtling through space a billion years ago.  That might be true - but I'm still going to question:  Who created that rock?

Or am I expected to believe that it just "exists" and that nothing created it?

Bottom line:  Human beings are not the final authority on all things - therefore we should not presume that we have the authority to end the life of a baby just because we think that baby will be inconvenient.

Chung Lee

Job learned the hard way not to question God.   Seems strange that a person would be punished for questioning and looking for proof...... but Chung Lee now understands why these people will blindly follow.

meowmix

Bryan Dubois wrote:

"My wife and I have five children.  I can guarantee that if we had problems conceiving, we'd be looking to adopt though.  I hope that you don't believe our decision to raise our own kids precludes me from sharing my opinion on the issue of abortion.  After all, we've decided - on four different occassions - not to have abortions".

Does this mean that you have five children and yet four of them were unplanned or "mistakes" that you decided on four occassions not to have abortions?

Just curious.

Bryan Dubois

No Meow.  It means we have a set of twins.  Four pregnancies, five kids.

Raoul Duke

How do you know that God didn't have a plan for all of these aborted babies, that they are teaching us something? To save you the trouble of asking...what are they teaching? My answer would be, "what do you need to learn?"

Raoul Duke

BTW, Bryan. I'm totally opposed to abortion. I’m also opposed to someone telling me that abortion is wrong because they think that they know what God is thinking, and that God thinks it’s wrong. The best argument you could give me against abortion is that you have five kids, and you can’t imagine your life without any one of them. Why not just leave it at that?

Bryan Dubois

Jimmy, if you're totally opposed to abortion, why do you liken mankind to a commodity?

God does think it's wrong.  God gave us the ten commandments, one of which is "Thou shall not kill."  Abortion kills an innocent human being.

I believe that abortion cheapens life and it's a cancer on the respect that we should have for life.

And yes, you're right:  I love my five children and don't even want to imagine my life without them.  I care about the society they'll have to live in and I believe the issue of respecting life is worth speaking up to support.

Pundit

Bryan does this history of "hitting refresh every few hours" look familiar to you? (it's yours, i know i have to spell it out sometimes for ya)

You can keep referring to me as "Hussein" if you like. Is that some sort of slur? I've seen you use it against others you disagree with. Yes, it's all a great conspiracy, but you outsmarted me, tracing it back to someone more articulate than thou, screen named Hussein... maybe he was born in Kenya.

Anyway, like I said, pointing out your logical fallacies is fun for me, so I guess you "own me" about 15 minutes a day. Its a warm up writing exercise for me and you just keep coming back. I wish Tom Jackson would write something new though, so you could cut and paste it. Then we'd have a new topic. I've refuted your abortion dogma ad nauseam, to the extent I could just repost old arguments, but where is the fun in that?

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Bryan Dubois

Pundit,  in case you didn't realize:  This is my blog.  I monitor it and respond often in the commenting section.   The time you spent on the cyber-sleuthing isn't really necessary to point that out.

Stay on topic please!

Pundit

Is this on topic enough for ya? Bryan, you never did answer any of these thoughtful questions about your position on abortion before taking it personal. But like you say, it is your blog. Saying god is great and children are wonderful is fine, but we live in legalistic society where those positions don't codify well, outside the bible anyhow.

Please just answer the questions, don't avoid them talking about how we should make laws out of the 'god is great' sentiments. 

1. All the jurisprudence surrounding abortion is tied to the right to privacy found mainly in the 4th amendment, and to a lesser extent in the 9th and 14th. Thus, legally anyhow, abortion is a personal/privacy issue. I don't see any analogy with drug prohibition, but I'll let you flesh that out. 

 

2. A fetus is not a person until at the very least the 22nd week of pregnancy, it is at this point when it attains viability, i.e. it can live outside the womb with medical care. This is well within the general agreed upon time period when most abortion happens, the first trimester. If you want you may persist in your dogma that all abortions are the same, that there is no distinction by time and reason, but most people not writing for high school newspapers are able to understand the difference. Are you opposed to birth control? Do you believe life begins at penetration?

3. I don't have a scale of morals for medical procedures. Neither do doctors. Which is more morally valid lancing a boil or freezing a wart? Abortion can be to save the life of the mother, still opposed? This is the reason for your personal goblin, the extremely rare late term abortion, to save a life. And yes the life of the living breathing mother is more valuable than the fetus.

4. Women do take precedence in this debate for obvious reasons.

5. Do you seek to legally ban abortion Brian? Or is this just about moral condemnation? If so I can live with that, but don't impose your moral worldview on other peoples wombs. 

6. Glad to see you backed away from your 'abortion sound bad' position. Do you know anyone who has had an abortion? Are you one of those people out to stop the new pills that can terminate a pregnancy early on with no medical procedure at all?

7. Do you think people who kill abortion providers are morally justified? Is that not the logical conclusion of your beliefs? 

8. The frequency of abortions is at an all time low, yet most people, outside of the south, who need or want one can get one safely and legally. It seems like a settled issue. Which gets back to the Chimera woman, people want fix the economy and talk progress, not jabber about something most people have made peace with. Except for the occasional blogger and single issue activists I guess.

9. Oh, and just curious, but does the anti-abortion movement all get back to the belief that someone might abort the second coming of Jesus? Isn't that where it all starts out? Can't ever get an answer on this.

 

Bryan Dubois

Pundit,  you obviously really want my opinion.  So here are my answers:

1.  Basing a legal opinion in support of abortion on the privacy clause is ridiculous.  Abortion cannot be justified by the right to privacy any more than drug abuse, murder, robbery or any other illegal act.  The idea of abortion is not found in the Constitution.  This fact has caused much legal debate among constitutional experts.

2.  Life begins at conception.

3.  There is no moral dimension to "lancing a boil" or "freezing a wart."  There is however, a moral dimension to taking a baby's life.

4.  Women take precendent.  Ask Norma McCorvey (aka 'Roe' in the Roe V. Wade case) how she feels about abortion.  She's against abortion even though her case was used to legalize it.

5.  I don't seek to legally ban abortion, although it would be an eventual result.   I seek social change that I believe would happen if the issue were brought to the forefront of public debate in this country.  An eventual result would that the law would be changed.  Social change first though.  Laws change when social landscapes change.

6.  Yes, I know people who have had abortions.  Each one regrets having the procedure.  I've never met anyone who is proud to have had an abortion.   Yes, I oppose the 'morning after' pill  (RU-486), as it is abortifacient. 

7.  No, I don't support the murder of abortion doctors.  That's an idiotic conclusion because it's obviously contrary to respect for life.  Those who support murdering doctors are as morally twisted as those who support abortion.  They just don't realize it.

8. Most people have made "peace" with abortion?  I'm sure that's correct since you described the topic as a "hot button" topic.  [eye roll]  Abortion is such a major issue, a supreme court justice nominee's position on abortion is used as a litmus test when the executive and legislative branches of our government  wrestle through the confirmation process. This nation is not "at peace" with abortion.

9.  No, the  anti-abortion movement does NOT all get back to the belief that someone might abort the second coming of Jesus.  The reason you probably don't get an answer on this is because it's a loony idea that I - and most people - have never heard.

Raoul Duke

With that kind of logic, you would have to think that someone who doesn't believe in your religion couldn't possibly be a good person, because they don't hear the words of your God. Countless innocent people have died because of that kind of thinking, and not from abortions.

Pastor Ron

There is only one true God......... The Christian God and all others are not only wrong but evil so sayeth the Lord Jesus Christ.

TheScientist

What is this?  No one wants to talk about high fructose corn syrup VS. corn sugar?  Pffft, I'm outta here!

Chung Lee

Interesting that Bryan will use The Ten Commandments as a reference and justification for his abortion stance, but Chung Lee wonders how he can misconstrue facts without breaking the 9th Commandment- Bearing False Witness? .  Many of his topics for his column are nothing more than a one sided misrepresentation  of the facts or outright lies.  Is it not sin to say something which you know to no be the truht?  One must also ask if the 10 Commandments are so sacred....does it not say not to "work" on Sunday since that is the Sabbath?  For some reason Chung Lee is pretty sure that he do work on Sunday.  Chung Lee must ask...... why do he ignore the Commandment that affects his wealth and want to apply a Commandment that affects another persons choice?

Mr. Dubois continally equates murder with kill even when the legal community makes a distinction between the two.  Chung Lee wonders if that is bearing false withness or just a lack of reading comprehension skill by an aspiring "journalist"?

Cross

Nice post, Mime.

 

stormy

Ron, the Christian God is also the Jewish God and the Muslim God, is he not?

Mime Bloggling's picture
Mime Bloggling

Cross..thank you. Good to see you posting on the blogs once again.

Bryan:  I have 4 friends who had abortions when they were young. Two were forced by their mothers to abort.  All had years of mental anguish over it...one is a recovering alcoholic...all regretted their decision. All gave their hearts to Christ and found peace. 

 

 

Mime Bloggling's picture
Mime Bloggling

 An invasion of privacy by a camera in the womb.  Mime

 

Bryan Dubois

Mime, that's awesome that your friends found Christ.  Or maybe He found them?  :)   Awesome pics, by the way!

meowmix

I found christ in my eggo this morning........

I really hate when self-proclaimed christians want to interfere in the rights of others and dictate to them just what is moral and what in their eyes is not.

Why can't you just mind your own business?  Go by the credo "live and let live"?  It just may save you some sleepless nights worrying about gays, muslims, pro-choice advocates and all the other people you view as sinners.

Cross

Nice to see you, too, Mime. Great pics, also.

I find a bit of humor in a pro choice person saying why not 'live and let live'. That's somewhat our whole point in this thread, you know. :)

brutus smith

 So bryan's position is you are looney if you disagree with him.

Raoul Duke

My point, that Bryan didn't seem to want to consider, is that ALL living things have the same importance, not just unborn babies. As a Christian, you should be vocally opposed to abortion sure, but also to our military presence in Iraq and elsewhere. Every day on the news we are told the number of Americans killed in Iraq. But do they ever tell you how many Iraqies have been killed? It's THEIR country!!! Bryan, are you letting your elected officials know that as a Christian American,  you don't agree with what's happening over there? Search your inner Jesus for the answer. If the answer is anything but that ALL life has value, then that's YOUR voice, and not the voice of Jesus.

Bryan Dubois

Jimmy, not everything is my responsibility.  What happens in Iraq is the responsibility of those we put in office to run foreign policy.  I don't have access to the intelligence gathered by those who made the decision to go to war in Iraq.  You'll notice that Obama didn't immediately end the war, like he said he would.   Is that because on the day of inauguration, he had access to all the intelligence and decided - along with his advisers - that it was not a good idea to simply withdraw the troops?  At some point you must trust those you put in office.  If you don't trust them, work through the political process to remove them.

Abortion, on the other hand, is a decades long social problem created through the erosion of respect for life.  Every American has a responsibility - if they understand why we should respect life - to speak out against it.  

Meow,  You have a right to life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness.  Those rights are given to you by your creator - not the government, your neighbor, or a piece of paper.  Your rights end when they infringe on the rights of others.   Cross said it nicely:  "I find a bit of humor in a pro choice person saying why not 'live and let live'. That's somewhat our whole point in this thread, you know. :)"   You have the right to bear children, and you have the right to not bear children.  You don't have the right to kill babies.  (That would infringe on the child's right to life.) 

Brutus,  what are you talking about? 

Chung Lee

Jimmy Ego don't forget the 50 million people in the US that are without healthcare that many on the religious right are against.  Thousands die every year due to lack of adequate care.  One has to ask "What would Jesus Do?

Raoul Duke

But didn't our government make the law that says abortion IS legal?

Bryan Dubois

Yes.  Our courts made the wrong decision.  I'm speaking out against it, as is my right. 

Chung, Brutus, and yourself believe that Bush made a mistake when he went to war in Iraq and you speak out against that, as is your right. 

I choose to focus on domestic issues where I have all the information to make a sound decision on the issue.  I choose to remain silent about the Iraq war because I feel that I do not have enough information to make a sound decision.  There is too much information, too much classified intelligence I don't have access to in order to form a reasonable opinion.

Raoul Duke

I respect you views on abortion. But leave Jesus out of it, because you and I both know that Jesus would be opposed to ANY kind of killing of human being, andywhere in the world, for any reason. And if you don't agree with that, then you haven't found Jesus like you think you have.

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