The economic recovery package: Do you know what's in it?

Sue Daugherty
Mar 23, 2010

 

I've got to hand it to the Obama Administration, they are going above and beyond to keep the citizens informed and involved.

Our economic recovery is serious and very disconcerting. In my opinion the surest way to economic failure is for citizens to be uninvolved and uninformed about what's in the economic recovery plan and why it is in there.

I'm encouraged to find on the Organizing for America Web site that "we the citizens" can attend a public meeting to learn and discuss Obama's economic recovery plan.

Because I work Monday through Friday, the one I'm going to takes place at 2 p.m. Saturday, Feb. 7 at the Seneca Public Library, 77 Jefferson St. in Tiffin. For more information call Bobbie Sue Grenerth.

There will be one in Erie County at 11:30 a.m. to 1p.m. Feb. 9t at  at BGSU Firelands, inside the Cedar Point Center. The number to call for more information is 419-681-0290.

I'm curious to know whether will you be going? Why or why not?

Comments

cm.sandusky

$50 million for the National Endowment For the Arts
$380 million in the Senate bill for the Women, Infants and Children's program
$300 million for grants to combat violence against women
$6 billion for university building projects
$1.2 billion to provide youth summer jobs
$2.4 billion for neighborhood stabilization activities
$650 million for digital TV coupons
$150 million for the Smithsonian.
$34 million to renovate the Department of Commerce headquarters. $500 million for the improvement projects for the national institute of health facilities.
$44 million for repairs to the Department of Agriculture headquarters
$350 million for agriculture department computers.
$88 million to help move the Public Health Service into a new building, not for a new building. To help them move to a new building.
$1 billion dollars for the census bureau.
$89 billion for Medicaid
$30 billion for COBRA extensions
$36 billion for expanded unemployment
$20 billion for more food stamps.
$850 million for Amtrak
$87 million for a polar ice breaking ship, never recover. Let's not look too deeply into why we would need a polar ice breaking ship if the poles are melting and won't have any ice!
$1.7 million for the national park system
$55 million for the historic preservation fund. $7.6 million for the rural advancement program
$150 million for the agriculture commodity purposes
$150 million for producers of livestock, farm-raised fish and honeybees.
$160 million for paid volunteers at the Corporation for National and Community Service for the community volunteers, the National -- wait a minute. Why are we paying the volunteers?

These are just a few, I would be typing all night and day....
This bill needs to be cleaned up..

cm.sandusky

oh, here's a few more!

$2 billion for renewable energy research
$2 billion for clean coal power plants in Illinois
$6.2 billion for a weatherization assistance program which basically is weatherstrips for underneath your door!
$3.5 billion for energy efficiency and conservation block grants $3.4 billion for the state energy program
$200 million for state and local electric transport projects
$300 million for the energy-efficient appliance rebate program $400 million for hybrid cars for state and local governments
$1 billion for the manufacturing of advanced batteries
$1.5 billion for green technology, loan guarantees
$8 billion for innovative loan guarantee program
$2.4 billion for carbon capture demonstration projects
$4.5 billion for the electricity grid
$79 billion for the state fiscal stabilization fund

Gulliver

Thanks CM. Are you going to either one of the meetings to discuss it? -- Sue

Rick Studer

I don’t see a thing in this list I would change. Does anyone realize how far behind the Russians we are in Ice Breakers? The top of the world is the last great area for energy exploration. The Russians have already planted a flag on the sea bottom up there. If we can’t get in there then we can’t compete for this bonanza of gas and oil. For once I’m rollin with Sara Palin on this one.

kURT

Amtrack needs utilized more. Green technology also. Don't forget.......we still have a war to pay for.

Anonymous (not ...

Democratic House Speaker Pelosi says 500 million Americans will lose their jobs if bill isn't passed:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5...

Nancy, is that a total of 150 million Americans who are currently working plus 350 million illegals or what?

Anonymous (not ...

I apologize profusely for the racial slight. I was being insensitive when I wrote the word 'illegals.'

My liberal friends tell me the pc term is 'undocumented Americans.'

Anonymous (not ...

The central idea of the stimulus bill is based on an economic theory called the Keynesian multiplier.

The theory states that every $1 in government spending will yield $1.50 in greater output.

Evidently governments can create wealth and prosperity out of thin air.

(I thought supposedly that only God can create something from nothing, but that's another story.)

If true, Obama and friends should fight for a ‘real’ stimulus plan of $10 trillion dollars and we'd all be living in paradise.

We'll have to borrow the money from the Chinese anyway, so we ought to ask for as much as possible.

Brother can you spare a trillion or two?

Gulliver

I went to the meeting Economic Recovery Plan meeting/discussion and concluded it wasn't what I expected. Not much of a discussion on the plan. But I met a great group of people who are committed to the well being of the USA, truth and transparency in government.

While there we were introduced to this utube video - mybarackobama.com/page/content/econmeetingvideo and they concluded with the website that will be reporting to Americians where the economic stimulus money is going as it it being spend. That can be found at www.regovery.gov

The Sandusky Register has an AP video on this page of the electronic newspaper with President Obama addressing the American citizens, now that the Senate has passed the Economic Stimulus bill. -- Sue

Gulliver

Typo correction. I meant to type www.recovery.gov (sorry). -- Sue

Anonymous (not ...

sue daugherty wrote: '...it wasn't what I expected. Not much of a discussion on the plan.'

I’m not surprised. The political cognoscenti expect compliance from the masses, not questions.

I recently read the following:

'Japan in the early 1990s, like the U.S. today, saw a real-estate bubble burst, spawning a banking and credit crisis that drove the whole economy down, hard. The Japanese then tried stimulating the economy with giant doses of government spending, which didn't pep things up -- but did bring on deficits that required tax increases later, dragging out Japan's problems for years.'

(http://online.wsj.com/article/SB...)\

On the other hand, we the masses can hope that the U.S. political geniuses are smarter than the Japanese political geniuses and will succeed where they failed.

cm.sandusky

Sue,
The discussion of this plan doesn't get anything resolved at this time. This bill is in the hand of our congress.
I'm not sure how many people are aware, but this is not Obamas plan. This plan was written by democrats.(Pelosi).
Obama is the salesperson.
Obama's massive pork-barrel, socialist, wealth-distribution program billed as a "stimulus plan"

Obama promised to be nonpartisan. But he's been anything but.

We now know the stimulus program includes billions for bureaucrats' new cars, Hollywood movie makers, arts programs, anti-smoking campaigns, efforts to reduce sexually transmitted diseases, and a litany of programs totally unrelated to the economy.

Obama promised massive infrastructure programs to create new jobs. But get this: Less than 5% of the $800 billion plus program goes for such programs.

What a joke

Rick Studer

To CM:

Where do you get your facts? A stimulus plan is meant to spend money. I doubt we are spending “billions for bureaucrats' new cars” but if we were, look at the jobs that would create for the UAW, see how that works. Another example, Rush Limbaugh just spent 54,000,000 on a Gulf Stream jet; I wonder how many people he put to work with that purchase? See, the government is just doing like Rush but on larger scale.

Who else but the Democrats would write these programs? They are in charge; once again all the Republicans seem to be interested in is cutting taxes and being obstructionist. Hopefully they’ll walk lock step into a permanent minority state where the can spend their days being gadflies, you know, little bitty irritants.

I do agree with you on one thing, I also feel that sexually transmitted diseases are at just the right level. :)

Have a nice day!

Rick

Anonymous (not ...

Rick Studer:

What is the source of the money for the spending plan?

Tax cut? None for me thanks. You'd prefer to give more of your own hard earned money to the government and keep even less for yourself?

timlavigne

obama is keeping us informed on what is in it, sure he is that is why talk radio is hated for using this information and sharing that only a little is going tord jobs and most of it is a wish list spending spree. including money for contraceptives, abortions in europe(oh i am sorry i forgot if a baby is not born in europe then we have one less person to run away from their 10-15 percent unemployement and take our american jobs, i see the conection) and billions of dollars in other not work related projects including new models to produce global warming scares. yeah we are well informed. plus we have to have it done now or the country will fail, just like we had to have the bank bailout now or we will fail, and yes that was bush but was pushed by liberal left and dem. not the conservative. but hey amercans have a short memory so why tell the truth

timlavigne

to rick, rush money on his jet was his earned money, the money for this spending bill is our money. the amount of money being spent is more then if every american gave all assets to the govermnet. that means if we sold everything we had rich and poor we would still be in the hole.
hey rick you ever hear the the borrower is the slave to the lender. i hope you are looking forward to more lead base paint in our toys

Rick Studer

You dear people are caught up in the notion that money is something tangible. You act like there is some big room with a finite amount of cash pilled up in it and when it is all handed out its gone. Money is an idea, a concept, a feeling, a piece of worthless paper. You may have $1000 in GM stock; tomorrow you have $300, the next day who knows. But really, what has tangibly happened, nothing but a different idea from the day before.

We’ll never be out of cash; they’ll just print more of it. Sure, we could choose to not do anything, no bailout of banks, no stimulus plan. Let everyone dig in and ride it out. Then when unemployment hits 20%, the stock market crashes, banks fail, what do we have now? Look at the money that would be “lost” in values of stocks. That alone will dwarf any amount of money spent on a stimulus plan. At least now the gears are clicking, the idea of a possible recovery is alive, this alone will boost the economy. The economy is like a big truck in the mud, as long as it keeps moving it has a chance to get out, if it stops, then it’s buried.

Here is an interesting, but I admit worthless figure, if you took the profit from output of business, after paying overhead, there would be enough money to give every person, man, woman, child, $260,000. That means the difference between what you take home and the amount that American workers generated is huge. That is why Rush can spend $54,000,000 on jets, Viagra and Bennies. My point is, there is a lot of cash out there that can be moved around. The stimulus package is not going to destroy the US economy. Chicken Little will live to clack another day.

Rick Studer

One correction, the $260,000 figure is per Americans. Illegal Aliens would still get $6.85 per hour.

timlavigne

ok we have 50 trillion in debt that is owed in social security and medicad oblication before we talk about bailout how about that money, second illegal aliens that make 6.85 is the reson wages are staying low. why higher a normal worker that can talk when we can hire some one that should not be here for more. the point is rush has made his money, as for the goverment money was not suppose to be worthless. it use to be back by gold but nixon changed that. look at the yen in japan. the reson it is so worthless is because japan did in the 90's what american is doing now. and quess what it prolong there recession. We made a promis under nixon that when we left the gold standerd we would not destroy our dollor by running the printing presses 24/7. Also remember our dollar is used all over the world. if we destroy it by printing it will cause people to dump and switch to the euro or other stable currency. to just print money non stop like you sugest makes a 50 cent pop turn into a 500 dollar pop. you can not pump money into the system like this and not expect us to pay for it. look at germany after wwI when they printed money to pay there debt people had to carry money in buckets just to get bread. look at zimbawa who has million dollar bills that turn into american curracy is worthless. The problem with us americans especially people like you is you do not believe that what happen to everyone else that did this can happen to use . adn the most important thing is with freedom you have winners and losers that are chosen by the decision we make. In socialism and speading the wealth which you want rick there are only losers. you tell me one nation in the history of this world that has used socialism and million have not starved and suffered then we can talk about what rush did with the money he made. which by the way why are you not upset about he millions obama spent on his inaugeration party. 5 times more then bush in a week economy or how he is spending millions redoing the oval office of our money not his money.
p.s. if you pick china look at all the people that suffer. remeber we are suppose to be all equal we are suppose to have the freedom to pursue happiness not a gurentee of happiness but to pursue it. the problem with socialism is we are all equal just some are more equal then others

timlavigne

secon the idea to take all the output adn give it to everyone so they have 240,000 seems nice but one thing your forgetting. human nature. how many times does history show when you give everyone the same no matter what then many people stop producing. the pilgrims did this there first year in the new world. they put all there growth in a community bin. some worked hard some didn't. all ate what they wanted and they ran out of food becuase of those that didn't not produce becuase everyone shared so they didn't try. half died. next year gov. bradford gave everyone there own land and told them what they produce is theres to do with what they want. you don't produce you starve. your on your own. true capitalism. the next year tney had there first thanksgiving because they had an aboundance.
this is shown time and time again in history but we don't or won't learn from it.

cm.sandusky

Remember, it was kindness that got us into this mess in the first place. It was the willingness of Fannie Mae to buy up mortgages that could never be repaid and the availability of low-interest student, car and home-equity loans that encouraged people to live beyond their means and thus spread this miasma of bad debt over our nation's economy.

And let us also remember how Japan's and Europe's soft-love economic policies served them so ill in the last 30 years

Anonymous (not ...

Rick Studer wrote: 'We’ll never be out of cash; they’ll just print more of it.'

If that failed monetary path to hyperinflation worked, Zimbabwe would be the wealthiest country on the face of the planet and the ‘ol Weimar Republic would be rockin’ the world.

Low Fed interest rates and too much easy credit got the U.S. and the world into this fiscal mess and a bigger batch of the same will get us out?

Ya might wanna spend some time studying some classic economics:

http://mises.org/

Money IS a concept; it just needs to ultimately be backed up by something tangible. The full faith and credit of the U.S. is fast becoming a falling asset.

cm.sandusky

For the talk he had with the folks in Elkhart he needs to be awarded an academy award. Naturally, he would select an area which is significantly vulnerable to a recession, where the main employer makes RV’s. Unfortunately, during a recession, when people cut back on spending, unnecessary spending is cut first, and RVs are just not going to be selling. Isn’t this is exactly what our governments need to do? Cut back, not spend more.

This so-called stimulus bill goes against what will resolve the problems of a recession. It seems that this recession is a response to too much government spending and too much credit debt on people who cannot afford to pay it back. So, of course we need to let the hard working taxpayers bail all these folks out of their messes, and go into more extraordinary debt, so we can just keep this recession going ….forever!!! It appears spreading the wealth is becoming a way of my life whether I want it, or not. If it walks like a duck, it’s probably a duck. This is Socialism by every definition of the word (wrapped in sheep’s clothing).

Now with the control of the census, that will seal the deal.

Thankfully, I did not vote for Obama, because his (2 year voting) record was way left, and I do not want to be forced to share my wealth.

cm.sandusky

“You cannot legislate the poor into freedom by legislating the wealthy out of freedom. What one person receives without working for, another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them, and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for, that my dear friend, is about the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it.”
Dr. Adrian Rogers, 1931-2005

The Objectivist...

Who is John Galt?

cm.sandusky

The Obama stimulus bill is frightening because as it got rushed to passage, more and more items buried deep within are being discovered. Items like the National Coordinator of Health Information Technology. They're going to monitor the treatments and make sure your doctor is doing what the federal government deems appropriate and cost-effective. Yup---they used 'government' and 'cost-effective' in the same sentence

cm.sandusky

Government "help" to business is just as disastrous as government persecution... the only way a government can be of service to national prosperity is by keeping its hands off.
Ayn Rand

Ask not what your country can do for you, but what YOU can do for YOURSELF!

MHL

Once again CM has been duped by right wing radio as she has completely parroted everything I heard today.

timlavigne

sad thing is if it wasn't for talk radio you would not now about this. I am sorry but health care hidden in a stimulus package is not fair. plus look at the wording make sure doctors are doing items that are cost efficent. well maybe if they where not afraid of being sued for missing somthing they would not have to order 30 test for what looks like a basic illness. second about 6 months ago the govermetn actually released a study on what a human life in america is worth. I alwasy thought purcute of life in the constitotion means it is price less but the govermetn came up with a price around 2 or 3 million. money teh average citizens produce in a lifetime. so if the goverment is looking at cost efficent and you are 65 and need a triple heart by pass and it cost more then what your price till 75 is do you think the govermetn will approve the cost.
dachel said we need to be more like europe and deal with our mortality. so i think you have the answer

timlavigne

one more thing was it not the left that complain about the insurance being able to control what teh doctors can do to you. now the goverment is able to do it. why don't you ask canada where there is a 10 month wait to have a baby :)

MHL

Tim,with all due respect,I hate to point out mistakes because I make my fair share of typos, but your spelling is that of third grade level making your already ridiculous posts that much harder to read!!

My advice is to slow down, I get your point because I already listened to snippets of Hannity and Levin today,but don`t make it so hard to read.

Maybe if conservatives would come up with some new ideas for the 21rst century instead of the same tired repetitive nonsense of tax cuts which failed under Reagan and W.(The economy doesn`t trickle down as the middle class has always been the fuel to the economy`s engine.)Maybe if they quit guarding the constitution ,which was great 200plus years ago but things have changed,people have evolved and progressed. Please let go of the 19th century we are now in the 21rst!!!!!!!!!!!

MHL

PS .I also love how Andrew Wilcow mentioned Ayn Rand 2 months ago she is now the model poster child on right -wing radio and these posts, do any of you have an original thought?

timlavigne

OK THEN YOU CHANGE THE CONSTITION. it is possible you dont' just make it up as you go. the founding fathers made it simple they new that things could change. we are a nation that is based on laws. the laws we follow or not evolutional. if the law must be followed by the intent of the people that pass them. if things change then the law and constition must change.
Second trickle down economics did work. our economy was worse at the end of carter. but policy of economic do not work the second you put them in. the explosion of the 90's had more to do with regan then any one else. and just like bad decision takes year to hurt us. carter and clinton house policy, and bush and modern day repulicans turn on capitalism and conservatism have caused the problems we see today. The problem with capitalism is we have not tried true capitalism in years. The goverment butts in every way possible just try to have a small buisness and if you do have one and you don't see it then your lucky

Also for as much as we think we have evolved we havn't. the same problems of today are the problems of yesterday. the other day and this is off the top of my head i heard a quote from a roman politicion who stated this around 50-100 b.c. give or take a few years. "if we don't stop spending money we don't have and giving welfare to romans that don't want to work then we will fall." Amazing they did.
and last my spelling and grammer is more like a first grade leval not third get it correct. i have millions of ideas in my head and can do almost any math question but when it comes to grammer i fail horrible so deal with it.

timlavigne

one last thing. Tax cuts only work when you have a limited goverment. look at Ireland. they have the lowest corporate tax rate while we have the second or third highest. Ireland has more jobs and buisnesses they don't know what to do with it. even russia has put in low corporate taxes. why do you think bush number one had to raise taxes. because the goverment kept growing and growing and the democrates told him it was for the best for teh country. He did it then they stab him in the back and used it agaist him in his re-election.
so if you want tax cuts to work you must cut goverment also.
also how much more taxes can we pay. as a middle class going into lower class we pay over 50 percent in taxes if not more. and thanks to strickland it is going up. what do you think a fee from the goverment is. A TAX
You can not be the land of the free with big goverment. The two do not go hand in hand

timlavigne

one last fact then bed time for me. remeber when they stated the middle class got smaller over bush. well quess what the lower class didn't grow it stayed the same. so that means all those poor middle class people didn't disappear they became upper class. look at the numbers you will see this. Obama is a prime example of this. He was so broke in 1996 he could not get into the democrate convention in Ca and had to find a way home becuase he was broke. but some how between then and his senate run he got rich. and he got legally rich not starting rummors just stating he became succesfull. 8 of those twelve years where under bush. so you know what it wasn't as bad as you make it seem

Anonymous (not ...

Lotsa new 'old' concepts about individual social and economic freedoms are to be found in the readings at the The Ludwig von Mises Institute web page:

http://mises.org/

Perhaps if some of Obama’s 21st Century-minded apparatchiks had the ability to read more and listened to less radio, the odds might perhaps improve that they would be able to actually add something to the discussion other than simplistic and immature ad hominem attacks.

cm.sandusky

To MHL

So, you call me a parrot..wow...
For the last year, maybe longer I've been listening to the mainstream media and average joe's chanting "Hope" and "Change"
So, what do you call that?

Coming from Europe I understand what "big goverment" does to a country. Universal healthcare that is going broke, unemployment rate at 11-13%..

We are heading down the wrong track. This stimulus bill will not work. There is a different agenda in this bill.

cm.sandusky

“I believe there should be an amendment to this bill!
The amendment should state “that any Congressman / Senator who signs on to this bill will resign or not seek re-election if this bill does not do what it the bill states it suppose to do”

timlavigne

cm you now exactly what is going to happen. when this don't work it will be the conservatives and republicans fault for not helping even though they been shut out of the process of making the bill. because by then the america will forget what happened like they always do. will believe everything ap new tells them and once agiain the dem would look like the kings they are not.

The New World Czar

What's in it for the government? Alot
What's in it for the taxpayer? Little

If anyone heard the recent comment made by John Kerry as to why it shouldn't go to the individual, then it is easy to understand why this fruitcake bill is a joke.

kURT

CM you are from Europe? Well then - America, Love it or leave it.

cm.sandusky

Yes, I am from Europe. I came to this "great" country because..well lots of reasons..I fell in love with this country because of the freedom. I grew up with universal healthcare, which by the way isn't free (13-15%) I still have family over there, and let me tell you if you think unemloyment is bad in this country, I beg to differ.
I am an american citizen, just as you. Just because I don't agree with this goverment doesn't make me un-american. I pay my taxes, so I have every right to agree or disagree with the decisions the goverment makes.

timlavigne

LASTIST NEWS FROM POLESI to prove my point on the blam. she stated today tat with or with our republican support this will pass and we will have transparasy. we will be held responsable for the results we predicted.

don't you get that the not responsable for teh results just responsible for teh results they predicted. so when this fails and it will like all other massive goverment programs they will not take responablity and pass the buck

timlavigne

kurt, you need to listen to cm instead of being racist. CM has lived under the conditions our congress and leaders are trying to take us. he can tell you first hand what will happen. and it is not what you think will happen. We need to learn from other people mistakes instead of being like a teenager that thinks his parents are stupid. and that is what many people are doing. they see the history but think it can't or won't happen here

cm.sandusky

Thanks Tim
The simple statement shows the maturity level of Kurt...:-) ahhh...the american education--lol (just kidding)

kURT

Education puffeth up, oh forgot CM you are agnostic. Knowledge is great, wisdom is best. You compare apples to oranges. Maybe you really need to count it a blessing to be able to talk the way you want. Is it true that the British aren't allowed the right to have a CCW? Wow !,come here & talk like you do...tsk,tsk,tsk.

MHL

JUST IN: Obama`s approval rating back up to 69 percent after Monday night`s press conference..

kURT

Careful MHL! I think CM is an ardent Rush/Anne Coulter fan. He might foam at the mouth soon! (We know the type).

timlavigne

wow and palin approval rating is still 80 percent and congress rating is still 10 percent and 90 percent of statistic and made up on the spot. to make things worse ratings are so distorted you can not rely on them anyway. and come on kurt you forgot something else. education was originaly started by use christians. our leaders or founding fathers pushed schools so we could read our bibles and now what is inside it. amazing something the people you support would go crazy over today. I don't understand kurt you talk conservative and don't realize it. you are putting religion with the leaders and don't realize the leaders only care about power. so you they give you a crumb and take more away.

What is it you don't want to realize, you don't want to reconize this, rather pick on the person born out of this country who could actually teach you somthing about american history and how we are distorting it. I bet you and mhl actually think abraham lincon who was a good president was a uniter like obama said today. a non partision. yeah that is why his strong stance on slavery lead to a civil war. some non partisionship

timlavigne

also why don't any of you give facts or examples, kurt you where the one complaining we give no history of ourselfs. tell me why you think these ideas would work, tell me what constition athority we have to do it, and most of all tell me when in history it actually worked. and don't dare use fdr because his policy prolong the depression. while the world was recovering we crept deeper and deeper into a depression. university of southern california found in the study that his policy prolonged it by 7 years. so that is my challenge to you tell me what country every when to socialism and keeped its freedome and succeded
or you can ignore me like you always do. if it is a religious reson you feel this way then fine do teh help yourself don't get the goverment to do it for you

Rick Studer

I always thought CM was a chick...

Chung Lee

Chung Lee say it time for timlavigne to get dictionary. Not only are his rantings incoherent, but they appear to be in foreign language. Can't trust the polls? You do realze that polls are based on math? Maybe statistics are hard to understand if you spend life on back of garbage truck and sleep with a fat pig. Chung Lee also think you may like to know that Lincoln was a REPUBLICAN!

kURT

Well well well. This is great. Fact was FDR got elected 3 times as president because the MAJORITY of people KNEW that his bold plans helped America get out of the depression. Unlike Herbert Hoover, who was similar to W. Do nothing, the problem isn't ours. While you are at it timavigine here is a quote from Ron Reagan about the homeless, "They made it their choice." See timlavigne under Reagan my wife & csmall child & I were homeless. Yea I lump most Republicans together. Maybe for that reason. Oh, didn't Lincoln marry a distant relative also? Da*n historical facts!!

MHL

Moderators have removed this comment because it
contained [personal attacks/threats/personal
information/racist or discriminatory remarks/libelous or
defamatory statements/profanity].

timlavigne

well unfortunitly you where homless for probley other resons and not the presidents fault. but hey you Have to blame some one. I sure it and had nothing to do with any choice you made. And I can say that because I am in horrible finacial shape myself and I could go into the resons why but i can tell you what it is not because of W. you need to learn the most important thing of faith. personal responsibility and not goverment intervention.
Second the reson FDR was re-elect 3 times is the same reson many people get elected. Fear, he was doing something and hey it must be working but it did't becuase while the rest of the world was getting out of the depression we didn't. Also do you even know your history of why the depression started. Why the market went down. It wasn't because of hoover. The depression started becuase we set high terriff on the imports. This slowed the world economy to go bad. thus causeing the stock market to crash and trigering the great depression. It is amazing just becuase a person is in power does not mean he is the reson things went bad. Don't forget we have congress and the senate who make policy also. this is not a dictatorship. You need to know your history of why this happen and not just the oh he did something so he cared. Also, Fdr Policy had nothing to do with the ending of the depression. WW2 is the reson we got out of the depression. Again know your history.

It is also the reson why this stimilus package is geting passed, because we have to do something. If you get people addicted to the goverment you will get re-elected.
as for lincon he was a great leader. He believed in the constition and he stood up against slavery. but he was not a by-partision leader.

AS for Regan coment for they made it their choice you now many homless people do. not all but many do because normally it is a choice in there life, a buisness choice, a personal choice that lead to them being in that position. The most a politicion can do is tax a buisness out of buisness. I believe, and I could be quoting the wrong founding father, but Benjermin Franklin said "the worst think you can do for the poor is help them".

Freedom takes personal responsability

MHL

Tom, I know you are copying your latest edition of the "Limbaugh newsletter ."you received today,but please slow down and look at the keys when typing.

There are people that make it happen,those that watch it happen, and those that ask whathappened. Thankfully we now have leadership making it happen instead of leadership wondering What the hell happened?

Oh and Palin`s approval ratings were 80 percent in August before she made a fool of herself.

timlavigne

let me put this plan Mhl. Give examples on how your policy's work. Give examples of how what in our laws allow it. YOu can't because all country's that have tried socialism have failed.

Chung you better hope i don't find out who your are. Because can you say liabel or slander. You must not. Also you don't know me very well though because i have not been on a garbage truck in 14 months.
You can not trust polls unless you know who they have polled. I could walk into a Union meeting of 1000 people and ask them who they support and i can say the latest poll shows 99 percent go for democrates. god polling people know how to poll to get a result that is wanted.

timlavigne

well sometimes doing something does not always mean it is correct. Second the people who made the problem, the politicion both democrates and republicans can not fix the problem.

You have to let the market fix itself.
adding money into a broken system just make the money more worthless. look at Germany after WW1, Japan yen in the 90's, Zimbabway with there million dollar bills. History shows it does not work but hey let's do it anyway becasue it can't happen here

Kottage Kat

How much is that worthy organization ACORN getting??? and why????

MHL

Well Tim,like polls opinions can be slanted. Many do believe FDR`s "socialistic policies" pulled us out of the depression. Others believe it prolonged it. We do know that supply -side ,trickle-down,voodoo economocs whatever the hell you want to call it have failed time and time again. Sure the rich get richer but the middle class eventually stops spending and the economy goes in the toilet.

During the last 8 years there is a wider differential between the upper class and the middle class than ever before in our country`s history.Actually I think the term middle-class is an oxy-moron. Sure we have more billionares but we have more in poverty.

You conservatives love to throw around the terms socialists and Markists. Whatever!! I do believe in capitalism as long as people aren`t getting rich off the backs of others. People like Bernie Nadoff.

Let me put it to you this way. I go to work every day to better the quality of me and my family`s life.While I agree there are many that need to step ot up in society and earn their keep, I would rather my tax dollars go to feed or educate some poor child who were born into poverty through no fault of their own,than some CEO`s 36,000 dollar antique comode with legs!

I`ve included a few typos and spelling errors to make you feel at home LOL

kURT

timlavigne you displayed your your venom. Now you know why my family was homeless. (What a joke)Hope it never happens to you or yours. Reagan's policy hit those (mostly younger people) in the work arena. I bet you are old & out of touch with the real world......just like most Republicans. Why is it when those in power benefit it is called capitalist. When the people benefit it is called socialism. Open your eyes & ears & listen....people in all sectors need real jobs also. It is the economy stupid. Or as Barrack would say, "We can't keep on with the same old tired out plans."

Anonymous (not ...

kURT wrote on Feb 12, 2009 8:40 PM :

‘…Herbert Hoover, who was similar to W. Do nothing,’

On the contrary, in response to the 1930s economic slowdown, President Hoover raised taxes on upper income individuals and signed the Smoot-Hawley Tariff Act that placed tariffs on imported goods in an attempt to save American jobs.

See: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Smo...

Other exporting countries responded to the protectionist legislation by increasing tariffs on American goods. These measures helped to exaserbate and prolong the world-wide economic slowdown.

In response to the economic slowdown that began in 2000, President Bush signed the Economic Growth and Tax Relief Reconciliation Act of 2001 which lowered taxes for all Americans. Also, Fed Chairman Greenspan lowered interest rates.

--------------

FDR was elected four times: '32,'36,'40 & '44.

----------------

See this NY Times article on how the U.S. dealt with past economic recessions:

http://www.nytimes.com/interacti...

cm.sandusky

Well, good morning! I was wondering why my ears were ringing last night..lol
Kurt and MHL....If you would know me you would know I'm not as conservative as you may think. I remember getting poll calls last year..I answered several questions, which would NOT put me in the republican side, nor the democrats. In the past I voted across both party lines.

Kurt..I'm not from England...

Look, this stimulus is supposed to be voted on today. Even the democrats are asking for a slow down because frankly the bill is over 500 pages and they haven't even read it.
This "rush" is not good, and as taxpayers we should demand to see what is in it before Obama signs this bill.
We don't work for Obama, he works for us.

Anonymous (not ...

MHL wrote on Feb 12, 2009 10:39 PM:

‘I go to work every day to better the quality of me and my family`s life.’

We’re all proud of and glad for you.

Unless you work for the government, you’re working under a capitalist economic system.

BTW, in 2007 there were only 3 million U.S. households that had investible assets of $1 million or more (excluding primary residence). It’s estimated that in 2008, the number shrunk to 2.8 million.

See: http://www.ml.com/media/79882.pdf

There ain’t enough wealthy to tax in order to get the U.S. out of the mess the liberals have put this country in. Obozo has been lying to ya!

Anonymous (not ...

I’ve got some potentially very sad news for all you liberal socialists.

Regarding the misnamed stimulus package, Robert Frank of the Wall St. Journal Wealth Report wrote an article entitled: Who Will Get Rich Off the Stimulus?

‘But the $500 billion that will pour out of Washington is also likely to create a new wave of fortunes in America — or at the very least make some of the existing rich even richer.’

See: http://blogs.wsj.com/wealth/

Yep! Obozo is, has and will lie to you again, and again and again.

You socialists are such dopes. Lenin called you ‘useful idiots.’

Who’s the wealthy under a communist or socialist system? Certainly not you economic illiterates; it’s the government bureaucrats and their cronies!

Capitalism has taken more people out of poverty than any known economic system in history. Through capitalist ideals, China has created more middle-class in the last decade than ever in the history of the world.

Chung Lee

Lenin called them "useful idiots" and the "useful idiots" for George Bush and the Republican Party are called Christian Conservatives. They are brainwashed to the point that the consistently vote against their best interest.

Today we have people making less than $30,000 thinking that they are living the American Dream. They defend the CEO's make 10's of millions annually without realizing that these CEO's make more in a minute of work than some of these people make in a year. It would be funny if it wasn't so sad.

Not only are they economically bankrupt, but they are intellectually deficient as well. They are convinced that terrorists are out to kill them. I would think if anybody is keeping score.... I am pretty sure that more Muslims have been killed by Christiand than Christians killed by Muslims. One of the most disturbing claims is "Islam is a religion of hate". Over 1 billion people practice Islam. One would think that Islam was behind the Inquisition, pogroms, witch hunts, bombings of abortion clinics and etc.

kURT

Thank you! 4 times that is great. People are reading. Great! I made a mistake....I said 3. Sorry. President Obama admitted he "scr*wed up." How honest. Read the article in Sand town paper about Obama's mistake. Forget who the commenter was, anyway it proves that Obama right away admitted his error. I respect that. Other past leaders let their pride get in the way. Once again - the banks & wall st. got big money 1rst & quickly. That's fine though isn't it? Like Sue's article stated: I too am encouraged by our current President. We the people need a future. We all win here - or we all lose. America needs action now not just idle words. Cm i don't know what you are. People seem to put labels on everything. All I want is to be know as a person who tried to do what is right.

The Objectivist...

Chung Lee: I am glad to see you have lost your racist pigeon english act. However, your posts are still as equally incoherent.

What is your point?

You wrote:

" Lenin called them "useful idiots" and the "useful idiots" for George Bush and the Republican Party are called Christian Conservatives. They are brainwashed to the point that the consistently vote against their best interest."

Where is the support for this arguement? Provide one example where the Christian Conservatives vote agaist their best interest!

Equally incoherent...

"Today we have people making less than $30,000 thinking that they are living the American Dream. They defend the CEO's make 10's of millions annually without realizing that these CEO's make more in a minute of work than some of these people make in a year. It would be funny if it wasn't so sad."

What is your point? Should everyone make the same regardless of how hard they work or how smart they are?

What is sad about some people making 10's of millions and other making $30k? That is the American Dream. Be smart, get a good education, work hard, get rich. Regardless of social rank at birth. Don't work hard, stay poor. Don't tell me that the guy making less than the CEO works harder, is smarter and better educated! Again, where is your point?

In a capitalist society there will be a very broad strata of incomes. Are you suggesting that we should place limits on salaries of CEOs? Or make it so every makes the same amount of money regardless of how hard they work? You make no sense!

Then your last paragraph who is they? Are you cutting and pasting from someone elses work? Who is economically bankrupt and intellectually deficient? CEOs? Lenin and Bush? Christian Concervatives? People making less that $30k/year? CEO are bankrupt, they make 10's of millions, Lenin is dead, Bush is not bankrupt nor intellectually deficient. Smart enough to be president and has loads of cash. Christian Concervatives? Certainly not bankrupt, have you seen their churches? Intellectually deficient, well.. I certainly don't agree with a lot of fundentialist views, but I would not go so far as to call the intellectually deficient. But, I assume that is who your are talking about. "They are convinced that terrorists are out to kill them." Well I think most people, including myself and unless they have been in a coma before 9-11 would agree with them. Only a fool would believe that there aren't terrorist out there looking to do harm to the USA and its citizens if given the chance. So again.. where is your point Chung Lee?

cm.sandusky

What is the american dream?
Is it only money? Is it having the pefect job, a house, kids, spouse?
I think the american dream is what YOU want it to be and how hard you are willing to work to get it.
Some people are happy making $30,000, some NEED more.

cm.sandusky

Not only have Democrats already broken their promise to give 48 hours consideration to any major bill - they are about to pass the biggest spending bill in the history of the planet, without even reading it

Chung Lee

Objective Epistemologist I would suggest you change your name to "Complete Oxymoron". You claim that you are objective yet you make statements such as "Capitalism is the separation of economics and state. It is also the only social system compatible with man's nature as a rational being." Quite an interesting example of "Objectivity".

You do know the difference between social systems and political systems right? Are you suggesting that people should do what is only in their own best interest? Interesting that you believe in the rights of the individual yet depend on the collective strength of the collective to defend your sophomoric conclusions.

Furthermore, it is the state that decides the political system. It is the state the provides the codefication of the laws and the standardization of the currency that provides the environment that allows capitalism to exist. Capitalism cannot exist without the sanction of the state so to suggest that "Capitalism is the separation of economics and state" clearly shows that you do not understand the difference between politics and economics and the interaction that takes place between the two.

A person such as yourself with your elevated smugness should be able to discern between the 3,000 killed on September 11th and the 100,000+ Muslims that have been killed in Iraq since the invasion. It is clear that Muslims should fear Christians more than Christians should fear Muslims. Speaking of that invasion.....what exactly did Iraq have to do with 911? So why exactly is the United States involved with that fools errand?

You challenged me to find an example of Christians voting against their best interest? Look at the demographics of the last couple elections. Why would people in states like Mississippi, Alabama, South Carolina and West Virginia vote Republican? People in these states would benefit more from the social programs proposed from the Democrats as compared to the tax cuts to the rich proposed by the Republicans. Interesting these states also have the poorest performing schools. Purely just an unfortunate coincidence.

So Objectivist Epistemologist what exactly is your point and the purpose of your argument? Clearly, if you are as elightened as you claim to be, you are rich beyond belief, but why would you waste your time posting on the Sandusky Register blogs? The only thing that is certain is that your heavy reliance on the quotes of Ayn Rand only shows that you have very few beliefs of your own.

Bailey

The House doesn't even know whats in it!

WATCH THIS SHORT VIDEO PEOPLE!!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C...

cm.sandusky

If the House and the Senate where in private industry they would be in PRISON! NEED I SAY MORE!

timlavigne

chung lee, christians believe in self reliance. A social program does not give self reliance, it allows the goverment to get involved into your life remeber the borrower is a slave to the lender. Second as a christian you should be willing to give but the goverment should not be doing it for you, it is your responsability not the goverments.
Second while many muslem so follow a peaceful religion there is many who don't. It is the radical muslem who have declared war on us. Why because of our freedom we allow choice that are good and bad. choice that allow you to sin without punishment from the goverment and that is christianity. WE believe in forgivness and we believe that we all have sinned. While we do stand up and say that is wrong we do not stop you from doing it, like liberals do. We could leave the middle east today nad they would still want to kill us. The internet has reached there children and showen them the joys of freedom. The see freedom not as a gift from god but as a tool of the devil to lead there kids to hell. Why to you think we are the great satan. The leaders of Iran also believe in the part of muslim that is not peacful. you need to be a muslim or die. there leaders beleive that by starting a war with the great satan they will bring there messiah home quicker.

timlavigne

trickle down economics works every day in this country. It leads tord the american dream. It is simple people want to make money and they have a goal to make. If you take away money from them in the form of taxes they still have a amount of money they need to make. So quess what they cut some place Labor, income, benafits, you name it.

Goverment can not make anyting with out taking it from someone. they can not give money with out giving to someone. the best way to have people make the money for the goverment to take is to give them and incentive to produce. That is how you make a economy work. Look at Ireland lowest one of th lowest tax rates in the world and they are booming. heck look at this country. the areas that have prospered and still prospering have had low tax rates limited goverment. so don't tell me trickle down economics dont' work. plus what other country in the world can you go from lower class to upper by using your ideas. you can't do that in a socialist state. There your idea belongs to them.

timlavigne

kurt, I never said i Knew why you where homeless. What I said was simple. where you are at this or anytime in your life has to do with your choices. If I heard your full story I could tell you what lead to it. What choice you might of made that lead tord it. The president in a free world can not be held soly responsible for where you are at any giving time. He can make your choices harder or with a little bit quick talk make you decided to choce the wrong choice. but he can't make it for you

Like I said I am in a down time of my life and I can tell you what choices i made that lead me to this point. It is not just one choice like many things are not just one reson. Some choices can go back 10 to 12 years that I made that lead to this point. But i can say I see this extreamly low time as a bleasing. I believe in freedom, I believe that the lord works in mine and your life low points in life are made to teach you a lesson on your past or even your future. Sometimes you really do nothing wrong but the lord is preparing you to enjoy something in the future.

As for me I am younger then you. I was still peeing in my pants when regan was elected but I use common sence, look at our founding fathers, and truly look at history to come to my own decisions. That is why I am conservative, That is why I don't trust the democratic party anymore and why I am starting to distruct many republicans anymore. If you look how they act when they are in power they act the same. current repubicans only act conservative when they are the minority.

The scary thing for me is everyday i live become more libertarion then a repubican. But i will always be a conservative

Chung Lee

I need help interpreting this message from timlavigne. I think it is written in uneducated hill jack! Chung Lee have dictionary but it is in English.

"Remeber it is not govermet responsability to give benafits tord librals by showen them that mulems are evel satans witout forgivness".

Tim you do realize that Saudi Arabia is our best friend in the middle east aside from Israel? Tell me.... how free is that country? You do realize that women cannot even drive in that country! The Taliban was the creation of Reagan (perfect example of trickle down) to fight the Russians. Unfortunately, Reagan didn't realize that the forces he provided weapons to would eventually fight against the countries that took up after the Russians left.

Is it just a coincidence that the Taliban became more popular when the American military started building up in the area? It is also just completely ignorant to say that they "hate us for our freedom". One billion people and you want to make such a generalization? Tell me....why do Christians bomb abortion clinics? Do they hate the fact that women have the right to choose under our laws? Are all Christians terrorists because of the actions of a few?

Chung Lee think Tim needs to learn how to spell and think for himself because if Chung Lee wanted to hear nonsense he would turn on radio and listen to Rush Limbaugh.

timlavigne

first off a person who bombs an abortion clinic is not a christian. you pray for them not bomb them. The radical muslem that is what i said hate us for our freedoms and it is the radical muslem that are attacking us and have declared war on us. Second no person is evil because of there religion. All people have sinned, no one is perfic, and many have flaws (like grammer), and all need forgivness.

I like you amazing do not like the friendship with Saudi Arabia. It is purely a friendship over oil. If we would pump our own then maybe we would not need to have them as friends would we. As for Reagan He wasn't perfict no president was but carter did more damage in the middle east then regan ever did.

Christianity is simple you can not get to heaven by doing things, by being nice to people, even though you should. christianity says you get to heaven becasue the action of one man. a man who was god in human form and did no sin. A man that was promised by god to the jews. A man that had 100's of signs fortold in jewish bible of who he was and all signs that are proven above all odds to point to jesus. Christianity in one word is forgivness. There is many who will do many thing in the name of god but that don't mean they are want christians stand for.

timlavigne

to say that Radical islam hate us for freedom is words out of there own mouth. They (radiacal islam not normal islam) see us as a modern day sodom and gomora. While I agree we many times in history have gotten into fight that we should not of been in but most of them times point tord a U.N. Decision.

As for Iraq all inteligents pointed tord wmd. (which by the way did you Iraq with in weeks of our attacks had hundreds of heavy equiment moving air planes fly into syria. must of been food they moved). Iraq was not follow the requirments given to them by the U.N., the U.N. was not going to do anything because of the money scam that was going on before we attacked. Plus if you paid attention to the pappers for years you would see a article about once every two weeks that Iraq shot at a plane in the No Fly Zone. The only reson the invasion of Iraq is being argued against is becuase it was a republican who started it. end of story

timlavigne

and my writting is educated hilljack. uneducated hill jack looks like this akdjf;ajfaklfjdalkfjda;fkja;ldj

kURT

Many things are learned from the past, This is why past conversations are such. To those who think they know so much the old Indian saying comes to mind. Before you judge a man walk a mile in his moccasins. Many here reflect their age & lack of life experiences. By age I mean they dodged they lay-offs in the 80's. They are now retired & haven't know real strife like many Americans 50& under. I feel timlavigne is one of them. Chung Lee you know how hard it is to teach old dog new trick? These people here not want to learn either.

timlavigne

well actually in the 80's i was living with my single mom who had to live with grandparents becuase of how poor she was. I can tell you in my 31 years I have seen more strife then most peole. Plus I can tell you things I have done when i was young to survive that make me sick. They where wrong but done by my choice and lead to my problems and my demons that I have dealt with.

It is called personal responsability. I am not juding you, trust me on that. All I am saying is you can not blame a leader in a free society for all of you problem. especially a leader who has limited powers, a leader who has a congress and a senate that makes decision also. our problems are 99 percent due to a decision we have made don't mean it is always your fault or your to blame but a decision some place in life lead you to it.
To be honest I bet me and you if politics aside would get along well. The only differnce between me and you is that I don't trust any politicion anymore. I still vote and always will but democrates are not teh democrates of the 80's the once my grandfather loved. The republicans except for a few are only conservative when they want to get elected. once in power they grow govermetn just as much.
this stimulas plan, it is a decison that is going to take away freedom's. A decision that we and our great grandkids will have to pay for sometime down the road. you can not double the amount of money in circulation (if you take every dollar in circulation today it wold still be 40 billion short of this bill) and not expect massive inflation.

timlavigne

and if you don't believe my age, well ask Mr. Lee. I don't know yet who he is becasue he don't use his real name. But he or she seems to know me.

Chung Lee

Tim you want to hunt Chung Lee? You say you want sue Chung Lee? Chung Lee live in van down by river. So you want sue Chung Lee? Chung Lee tell no lies. Anyway, Chung Lee only have van frying pans and paint ball guns. Yes Chung Lee have paintball guns. He use them to shoot cat. Chung Lee take personal responsibility and he no sue his company or sue people who tell truths.

No worry....Chung Lee no tell people age of Tim. Chung Lee no violate Register policy.

timlavigne

no chung lee? Tim don't want to hurt chung lee, tim don't fight, just want you to debate while you leave my wife out of it. and you can rip my grammer, maybe force me to self teach better grammer.
yes ripping my wife and me in personal attacks is liable and immature. I really would like to know who you are.

timlavigne

ok school ranking got mentioned on why we vote the way we do. lets look at current rankings and see who leads them. info found at

www.psk12.com and http://www-personal.umich.edu/

Rank
Gr 8
Read
Ave Gr 8
Math
Ave 2008 vote 2004 vote
1 Massachusetts MA D D
2 Minnesota MN D D
3 New Hampshire NH D D
4 North Dakota ND R R
5 Vermont VT D D
6 Montana MT R R
7 South Dakota SD R R
8 Iowa IA D R
9 Colorado CO D R
10 Connecticut CT D D
11 Wyoming WY R R
12 Kansas KS R R
13 Maine ME D D
14 Virginia VA D R
15 Wisconsin WI D D
16 New Jersey NJ D D
17 Ohio OH D R
18 Nebraska NE R R
19 Indiana IN D R
20 Missouri MO R R
21 New York NY D D
22 Oregon OR D D
23 Utah UT R R
24 Washington WA D D
25 Idaho ID R R
26 Illinois IL D D
27 North Carolina NC D R
28 Pennsylvania PA D D
29 Delaware DE D D
30 Kentucky KY R R
31 Maryland MD D D
32 Michigan MI D D
33 Texas TX R R
34 Alaska AK R R
35 South Carolina SC R R
36 Oklahoma OK R R
37 Rhode Island RI D D
38 West Virginia WV R R
39 Florida FL D R
40 Georgia GA R R
41 Arizona AZ R R
42 Tennessee TN R R
43 Arkansas AR R R
44 Nevada NV D R
45 Louisiana LA R R
46 California CA D D
47 Hawaii HI D D
48 Mississippi MS R R
49 Alabama AL R R
50 New Mexico NM D R
51 Washington D.C. D D

THANK MAKES top ten 2008 7d3r 2004 bush years 5d5r
bottom 10 08 5d 5r 2004 bush years 3d 7r
so you seem to make a point chung even though it is about even on the bottom 5 and even the top Five in 2004 buuuut. You are forgetting one thing when it comes to liberals and conservatives The liberals have run the school for years so does it really matter state by state. Plus when it comes to conservative christians there are not happy about what the schools are teaching. There seems to me less of the three r's the basic and more theory based teaching. (evolution, global warming, liberalism)

So no it would not make cence for the conservative christian to vote on basis of what has been done to our schools.