Blog: Closed-door commission bad for Sandusky residents

Anonymous
Aug 28, 2012

At the last city commission meeting, the public got a small glimpse of our City Commissioners in rare action. Normally, the commissioners seem to breeze through the legislation segment of the meetings and conduct the other business behind closed doors for nearly an hour.  You have to wonder how the commissioners are really communicating with one another about certain items of business.

The city needs to keep the public more informed as to what is really happening in Sandusky. The city hadn’t notified the public that the EPA had leveled violations on the city. They didn’t bother telling us that ODNR had visited the city in regards to the Pavilion and what ODNR required as a result of their visit. It wasn’t until the stories broke in the paper did the city begin to talk about what was happening. It seems everything is top secret and the less the public is informed the better.  If it were not for the newspaper and the coffeehouse, we wouldn’t know anything about what is going on in our town.

When the commissioners do all their work behind closed doors, we don’t have a chance to evaluate them as to what they are doing on our behalf. We don’t know what they stand for and sometimes when they do speak up, they end up surprising us. When it is time to re-elect them again, you have to wonder what kind of contribution they actually made on our behalf because we never got to see them in action besides passing legislation.

Until next time, it was refreshing to see our commissioners in action. We hope the commissioners will continue to talk freely during the meeting expressing how they feel on certain subjects and projects and less time behind closed doors.

Sharon Johnson is a born and bred Sandusky resident who's outspoken about community issues. Her blog, chronicling her efforts to keep tabs on city projects, is posted here Tuesdays at 11 a.m.

Comments

pinkperch

Moderators have removed this comment because it contained personal attacks and libelous or defamatory statements. Discussion Guidelines

SamAdams

There are certain things the Commission does that NEED to be behind closed doors. Personnel matters, for example. Other than that, I can't think of anything LEGITIMATE to which the public doesn't have some interest or rights. So...are they REALLY discussing personnel issues so frequently and at such length? Or is there some Sunshine Law issues of which we all ought to be aware?

Julie R.

@ pinkperch: Wow! What one learns by reading the SR comments. I give your comment another 5 minutes and it will be deleted but take note others have seen it. Glad you got it off your chest.  

Kelly

Others have seen it & and found it totally juvenile & ridiculous

LabMan

Took about 15 - 20 minutes

Imataloss

I read this blog (and Ms. Johnson's prior blogs) hoping to read something insightful, helpful, investigative, game-changing - something.  This amounts to nothing more than a tattle sheet. 

Really SR - is this even print-worthy?

pinkperch

Say what you will, these are the people that openly brag - "I am a city commissioner."  Again, so what?

 

Cityslicker

Sharon, you brought up a very good point last night. Who's going to investigate Commissioner Brown's concern with Commissioner Cole. IMO Mr. Icsman should check the charter. If Mr. Brown has followed it correctly, then he should report it back to the Commission ASAP. Then he should take a peek at Ms. Cole's actions concerning the search, and who is the "liar" or not. Then let the attorneys that specialize in defamation and lible take it from there.

wiredmama222

City Slicker.......OMG......Mr. Iceman already addressed the issue with the City Charter and Mr Brown.  I would have thought he would have stated that outright last night. 

As for Ms Cole, she is the one who should be investigated, not the other commissioners she called liars.  Ms Cole and Mr Poole should present the NAMES of those who placed phone calls to them saying that "no one from Perkins need apply". 

What is the "iceman" to do?  Give lie detector tests to Smith, Brown and Hamilton, whom Ms Cole contacted at three different times, stating she wanted Mr Brown removed and her placed on the committee and  Mr Lang fired and Mr. Matthews put into his position?  When confronted with that, she called THEM liars?  what then, does she get dismissed as a commissioner? 

wiredmama222

Was there a meeting between the prior one and the one held yesterday in which the public could have been INFORMED of the EPA leveling a fine against the city?  If so, I think a lot of people must have missed that one. 

I should think it was the newspaper's DUTY to tell the citizens that the EPA was digging about, not the commission.  So what's the point?  Are you bragging or complaining here?

How long was the EC last night?  An hour of 15 min as someone else says?  Are we being fed still another story of exaggeration or misinformation?

I am with Sam on this one.  The commissioners are entitled to their Executive Sessions without telling anyone what it is about as long as they open and close in an open meeting.  That is how the sunshine law reads.  They need not tell anyone what is said.  If that galls anyone too bad.  Perhaps the EPA is what the meeting was about and how they intend to handle it.  The city commission is within its rights to discuss that in private without the public if that is the case. 

I take it last nights meeting got NOTHING accomplished to move anything forward.  How sad.  That is pretty much what happened at the previous meeting despite fireworks and hatefully slung words. 

 

 

 

Kimo

 

Republican spin.......

 

wiredmama222

LOL.....not partisian....just a spin to make a spin for no reason whatsoever.  And it is totally unfair for one and all.

Imataloss

EPA has not leveled a FINE against the city.  They issued a Notice of Violation, with the potential for a fine.  This is how things get started....

Imataloss

EPA has not leveled a FINE against the city.  They issued a Notice of Violation, with the potential for a fine.  This is how things get started....

richrs

@ wired

Being that the SR is a private enterprise they have no real duty per se to any of us. Those who have a duty to us are thiose we are foolish enough to elect to office. R

wiredmama222

@ Richrs.....The Sandusky Register being a newspaper, being a private enterprise or not, is there to print the NEWS.  Their daily ritual is to gather the intel of the daily information of the places and citizens of the area, put in into some form of coherent story and PRESENT it to the public for consumption of the "goings on" around them. That has pretty much been their function for many years.

Whether they like it or not, it has also become their "duty" to print the truth about what is going on and to be fairly accurate in the stories they print.  People have come to depend on the "news" as their sources for what is happening in their community.  So if you do not see it as that, you are free to do so. 

Other, however, buy a daily newspaper for far more complex reasons.  They depend on it, learn from it, and mostly hear about their day around them that they do not see from it.  That is why what goes into it is most important....why newpaper reporting should be honest, above-board and not filled with innuendo and misinformation. 

I think they do have a duty to all their readers to do just that.....honest reporting, honest commentary and honest story telling.  For the MOST part, they have it.  For the most part, they give us that.  And yes, they fulfill that duty, but not always. 

So, IMO, they do have a duty...one they took on by becoming a newpaper:  Knowingly, willingly and actively.     30

Julie R.

When they have closed-door meetings and/or meetings that nobody is never notified of take it from one in the know ---- they are up to no good. The courts at the Erie County courthouse are well-known for that illegal juvenile crap, too. The ones on the 2nd floor, anyway.  

wiredmama222

@ Julie,  this isn't a court we are talking about, nor is it a judicial system.  Its a commissioner meeting and they have every right to meet behind closed doors, just like the judge sometimes has the right to do with the lawyers.

But you have a different meaning I am sure than what is being discussed here.  You see everything under the meaning of secrecy in LAW......and with THAT I totally agree....especially after what I saw this week. 

I will never again disagree with you on that point.....NEVER EVER AGAIN.  NOT AFTER SEEING IT FIRST HAND.   (email me if you like kitkat222@att.net)

On the commissioners I will. They have every right to meet for executive session to discuss something they do not see fit to discuss in public just yet or ever.  That is their right as elected leaders. 

Cityslicker

 @Wired: Don't blow a fuse at me. I'm with you on all of that. Maybe I just put it wrong. I don't think that Cole has any business where she is at, and have the utmost respect for Mr. Brown and Mr. Smith. 

Swamp Fox

Would someone please tell me what qualification or achievements this woman has to rate her own blog, other than she always agree with the management of this newspaper.

The Answer Person

monotonous, opinionated, repetitious, obnoxious, boring, tedious, narrowminded, tunnel-visioned, regressive not progressive,

and those are the good ones...

Woody Hayes

 Paper bags.

Super Judge

 Looks HUNGRY!

wiredmama222

@city slicker....LOL...I am not really "blowing a fuse" at anyone here except for the stupidity of two certain commissioners, one of whom I admired deeply until this issue, and the person who writes this blog for misinformation once again. . 

Maybe I am misunderstanding what you wrote, but I took it to mean you supported Ms Johnson and what she is saying and about Ms Cole. Mr. Iscman READ the City Charter word for word to that meeting telling the council what was required.  That committee did exactly what was needed.  Mr Brown needed to be THANKED not ridiculed.  It seems Ms Cole didn't want to hear that, nor did Ms Johnson from the sounds of it.  Too bad.  

They did what was needed. They did what was asked of them and people like Cole and Johnson just want to find fault for the sake of finding fault without reason or rhymn.  What is worse, doing so at the eleventh hour.  Why is that?   

I was at the previous council meeting and saw for myself the stupid temper-fit (yes, it call it as I see it) she had and how she debased Mr Brown and his committee for what they had been doing. 

I distrust people who say things like "someone said" or "some told me" but NEVER have a name to go with it.  I don't like gossips.   If someone is going to tell me something, I always ask them to stop unless they don't want their name mentioned when I repeat it, because I can't stand that sort of thing.  If you don't have the courage to say tell it yourself then shut your mouth. 

In this case, the committee had already finished, the final five had been chosen and THEN was when it was suddenly and inexplicably an uproar.  Where were the phone calls and open debate before that time?  Why no difficulty before the final five was named? 

There were no complaints. That's why.   The truth is the job of the committee is DONE.  The final five have gone on to testing, so what is there to REPORT????

Not a darn thing.  That is like asking for an x-ray of an arm that isn't broken. 

Why does anyone want to make this process for chief of police go on any longer than is necessary?  Maybe that is the question that should be asked? 

Who stands to gain from the answer to that question?

Browndog271

Moderators have removed this comment because it contained personal attacks. Discussion Guidelines

Julie R.

@ wiredmama222: In reference to your comment that a judge has the right to meet with lawyers behind closed doors.......... 

Sorry, but that's not true. The Law states that the presence of all parties, with or without an attorney, are required at any and all hearings. Take that into consideration with the fact that it is well-known in Erie County how attorneys work in illegal collusion with the judges and the other side against their own client(s), you might be able to see the reason behind those sneaky closed-door meetings. Another Law that your Erie County courts don't follow ~ (which ironically is the same thing the FEDS got that corrupt Cuyahoga County Judge Bridgett McCafferty for) ~ OHIO LAW flatly prohibits a judge to converse with a lawyer and/or a party from one side without the presence of the lawyer and/or the party from the other side. Believe me when I say your courts on the 2nd floor of the Erie County courthouse are super good at that illegal practice.

wiredmama222

Julie......LAWYERS CAN MEET WITH BOTH SIDES ANY TIME THEY WANT without anyone else present.  It's called ex parte meetings.  They did it in my lawsuit.  I was not present.  They came out and told me what was offered and gave me the chance to decide what I wanted to do. 

It also happened to my husband in a lawsuit in which he was involved in Huron county.  Same thing. 

Sorry, but that is what happened.  You judge everything by what happened to YOU not what has happened to others.  That is a narrow yardstick by which to measure.  Others have had different situations and different outcomes.

Besides that, this is getting WAY off track

Julie R.

"If it were not for the newspaper and the coffeehouse, we wouldn't know anything about what's going on in our town."  

Kudos to the Sandusky Register for keeping the people informed.  

Kelly

They said the Judge can meet with the LAWYERS.

 

reprudy

Erie County Child Support Enforcement Agency had me fired from my job. There is clearly NO BETTER way to make sure a person is making his payments then to have him arrested from his job while on the clock. Then have him sit in county jail for 8 days because the "cause" paperwork has not been prepared by CSEA. I lose my job. Cause for serving warrant is because someone tried to mail me a letter from APD. It bounces return sender. Warrant sent. What could be wrong with that?

I did not move I received letters from CSEA and Clerk of Courts that same week. I had never seen a list of the "sanctions" I was to abide by. Not moving without notice was not on the list once I did see them.

I asked "Why did you do that?". The ECty APD Official said "We just want to make sure the money gets where it is supposed to go!". GREAT PLAN

It was determined I had to go get a Competency Evaluation. I am not very sure what to expect. I am told to expect to be there 4+ hours. I got to go over 300 miles to meet with the staff for less than 10 minutes. They were perplexed. The diagnostic evaluation is to basically ensure the person understands/comprehends the most basic concepts including how the County Government functions with emphasis on the court systems. I have a Master's Degree in Public Administration. I specialized in PUBLIC LAW. I had a 3.9 GPA. I was on a full scholarship? My IQ is north of 140 (MENSA Req).

The people making these decisions have cost me around 40k in "take home" pay so far and can get me setenced with a felony which basically will end my pfrofessional career- have "this much" of a comprehension of ME- absolutely NONE. No clue how misguided having me arrested from work was.

What are my options?

wiredmama222

@reprudy....you hear more and more stories like yours.  I wonder what nut case is running the ECCSE down there.  They don't seem to have their ducks in a row at all.

This happens more often than you can count only to find out it is an ERROR and they person who's life they just ruined is NOT behind at all or is someone who filed to have a review in their case for child support.

Maybe Mr AG down in Columbus better get his butt in gear and get up here to Sandusky and evaluate the entire system up here to see what is going on before everyone is in jail. 

The Answer Person

Hey Petunia!

wiredmama222

Why is it that the paper is too shy to put their own front page story online for people to comment?  Afraid of hearing comments from their readers?

wiredmama222

Congratulations to Mr. Ouriel, whom I consider to be a pretty fair reporter. He did a fairly good job of reporting about Mr. Brown and this "confilct" over this entire matter with Ms Cole and Mr. Poole. 

What "peppers my pepperoni" is that it didn't come up until the 11th hour.  And why not?  Because Ms Cole and now Mr Poole, whom I used to respect, didn't have any real complaints until then. 

Then comes Mr. Brown, saying to go ahead, investigate.  See if the committee and I did anything wrong.  Even after "the Ice man" assures the entire council that nothing illegal or wrong was done.  

I admire Mr. Brown's guts.  If the face of what seems to be absolute lies, attempts to make him look bad and two people with an obvious agenda, this man stands there, willing to lay it on the line.  He stands proudly and tells them, go ahead....take a look.  You have already been told we have done nothing wrong.

Both Ms Cole and Mr Poole were assured by the "IceMan" at the previous meeting that nothing wrong was done but they cannot accept that. 

Doesn't it make you wonder WHY, at the 11th hour someone would try and hold up the search for the chief of police?  Why, at this late date, would someone try and sabbotage the search when it gets down to FIVE?  Could it be that there is a hidden factor here?  I think there is.  It has a name. 

If this "investigation turn out to be the "witch hunt" I suspect it will, I suggest that Ms Cole and perhaps Mr Poole, but DEFINITELY Ms Cole, RESIGN from office.  This is not the first time Ms Cole has flaunted the rights of others at meetings, where she has had total disregard for others. 

Perhaps it is time for Ms Cole to step down if she is wrong this time, and maybe she should take Mr Poole with her if he cannot give just cause as to why he is supporting her. 

If they find against Mr. Brown, he should do the same.  But my money is on him.  I think  Mr. Brown is the most honorable of the three, strong, forthright and honorable.  I think he did the right thing with this committee and Ms Cole is out for blood for other reasons., 

Only time will tell.  Whatever the investigation finds they best do it quickly, as time is wasting. 

 

 

 

Darkhorse

The invesitgation must be done with the serious allegations that have been leveled.  No doubt It will end up he said, she said, but the city must go through the motions to clear any potential liability on the city and for any violations of ethics.

wiredmama222

@Darkhorse....while I agree that these charges may be "serious" I must also say, if they find that they are erronous, Ms Cole MUST step down.

If the charges are false, and the investigation finds no fault with the committee and Mr Brown, then Ms Cole should do the honorable thing and recuse herself as she is the one making the most noise and has been charged as well with doing some very "shady" things herself. 

Is this the way our Councilpeople are supposed to be acting on behalf of the citizen of this city?  Backdoor deals, making promises they cannot keep?  Trying to get rid of people?  Soliciting people to fill jobs?  IMO, that isn't what they were elected to do.  IMO they were elected to lead this city and to do the job for which they were elected. Not act like sneaky idiots. 

Julie R.

"Is this the way our Councilpeople are supposed to be acting on behalf of the citizen of this city? IMO, this isn't what they were elected to do. IMO they were elected to lead this city and do the job for which they were elected. Not act like sneaky idiots."  

That was excellent ---- not to mention it should also apply to the courts at the Erie County courthouse. (two of them, anyway)

Julie R.

@ wiredmama: In reference to your comment that your lawyer, during a meeting with a judge and the lawyer from the other side, came out and told you what was offered and gave you the chance to decide...............

Just to set the record straight ---- your attorney HAD to do that.  A lawyer can not do anything on behalf of a client without the client's written consent. Neither can a lawyer file or dismiss anything on behalf of a client without the client's written consent. If the lawyer has more than one client the lawyer can not file or dismiss anything without the written consent of ALL clients. The Rules for Professional Conduct also say under no circumstances can a lawyer withdraw from a case for no justifiable reason and without due notice and without turning over all files in the case to the clients. Neither can a lawyer under any circumstances turn a case over to another attorney in his firm without a consultation and the written consent of all clients.

Now take note if a lawyer is working in illegal collusion with your corrupt courts and the lawyers from the other side a lawyer can do all of the above --- and they do, too. In fact,  if attorneys are working in illegal collusion with your corrupt courts they can even file and dismiss things on behalf of non-clients.

If the Clerk of Courts ever gets records online I'll show you exactly how the your corrupt courts and their attorney friends pulled off that illegal scam to sell my deceased mother and stepfather's property at a scam sheriff sale ---- and that was just ONE of the dirty illegal scams they pulled off. 

wiredmama222

@ Julie.  This is what you said ..." In reference to your comment that a judge has the right to meet with lawyers behind closed doors..........

Sorry, but that's not true. The Law states that the presence of all parties, with or without an attorney, are required at any and all hearings." 

I was giving you an example of what I had with my lawyer, and others have had with theirs.  Now you say that they have to do what happened.  Which is it, Julie?  They can or cannot meet with the judges behind closed door?  First you say they cannot, then you say they can? 

That is what my comments were about and I again say to you, you are measuring everything by the narrow yardstick by what happened to you and that is unfortunate.  Not all of us have had the same experience. 

Yes, if and when the clerk gets your "mess" online, then I suggest that you get your paperwork together and you get a really good out of town lawyer to go over it and see if you have been wronged in some way.  If you have then take it to court and have it litigated.  That is the only remedy you have.  If it cannot be fixed then you will have to learn to live with it. 

Many of us have had to learn to live with some nasty things that have happened that we cannot fix, even through the courts that we wish had come out differently for ourselves but we cannot keep beating a dead horse week in and week out.  That kind of venom will only kill you. 

It isn't the same for commissioners, however, who have the right to hold executive sessions at certain points to discuss certain things during council meetings.  They have that right without fear of being criticized by people like this or the SR for doing so.  it is the right. 

Julie R.

@ wiredmama: You better believe I'll keep beating a dead horse. After your hypocrite jokes at the Erie County courthouse sent a black lady (Krista Harris) to prison for 5 yrs. claiming she stole $40K from her elderly aunt by transferring money out of her aunt's Citizen Bank account using a LEGAL power of attorney and then sending a disbarred attorney (Baumgartner) to prison for 8 yrs. for calling one of their corrupt old rent-a-judges corrupt ---- those jokes, working in collusion with attorneys, pulled off one illegal scam after another to cover up crimes committed by attorneys and two financial institutions against my elderly incompetent mother only months before her death --- once again, all from Huron with the exception of a Lorain County attorney. Forged power of attorneys, forged Wills, internal criminal changes to her contracts, fraudulent transfer of her property...........the dirt-bags even committed Medicaid fraud.  As I said before --- I've got so many fraud documents prepared by those dirt-bags that your joke courts refused to address I could actually wallpaper my living room with them. And then there's all those illegal scams that were pulled off ----- yuck! Even somebody from the State Auditor's office ~ just hearing what your joke courts and their attorney friends did to property alone ~ called it the ugliest story she ever heard. She sure got that right. Fraud IS ugly  --- just like crimes against the elderly are.

Also, if you think this is an isolated case ........ sorry. Just ask some of the local title companies around what they are all finding during title searches at the corrupt Erie County courthouse.  

Kelly

Disbarred and rightfully convicted felon

Fireside

weird...if cole proves smitty lied about the dates , I am sure you will be saying he should step down and cole should stay, correct? stay tuned!