Perkins, Margaretta school leaders apply for other districts’ openings

Includes pdfs of applications.
Alissa Widman Neese
Nov 7, 2013

 

Perkins Schools superintendent Jim Gunner said he’s available to leave the district Jan. 1, according to a job application the Register obtained Monday.

Gunner recently applied to be superintendent at Tiffin Schools and Findlay Schools.

Margaretta Schools superintendent Ed Kurt is also vying for the Findlay Schools job.

The Register obtained copies of applications and resumés they sent to the districts.

In Gunner’s application to Tiffin Schools, he lists his “date available for employment” as Jan. 1, but says his “preferred hire date” is Aug. 1. The current Tiffin Schools superintendent is set to retire Dec. 31 and board members hope to select areplacement by the end of the month.

Gunner’s contract with Perkins Schools ends July 2015. He currently receives about $117,000 a year and is requesting a $120,000 salary at Tiffin Schools.

In their applications to Findlay Schools, Gunner and Kurt were not required to list their preferred hire date. Board members hope to announce their selection in late December. Their superintendent retires at the end of the school year.

Gunner is requesting a $150,000 salary at Findlay Schools, while Kurt is requesting a $135,000 salary. Kurt receives about $118,000 a year at Margaretta Schools. His contract ends July 2016.

Gunner has not returned calls seeking comment on his job applications and other Perkins Schools issues.

When contacted this past week, Kurt said he is happy at Margaretta Schools, but is exploring other opportunities.

Copies of the applications and resumés have been posted below

Comments

Good 2 B Me

What? Gunner is not returning calls? No way!

muec95

=-=-= Google is paying 80$ per hour! Just work for few hours & spend more time with friends and family. on sunday I bought themselves a Alfa Romeo from having made $5637 this month. its the best-job Ive ever had.It sounds unbelievable but you wont forgive yourself if you don’t check it out http://goo.gl/f6e95V

Peninsula Pundit

Ouch!
How would Register employees like their application for employment at other newspapers put on the internet for their current employer to see?
Where did the Register obtain this information?
I'd just like to know so I'm certain not to post anything on that site.

Alissa Widman Neese's picture
Alissa Widman Neese

Any job applications emailed or sent to a school district are a public record — especially important when it's a school's top job. Any teacher or administrator's personnel file, full of hundreds of documents like this, is also a public record. They're public records because taxpayers pay a public school's employee salaries. Anyone can ask to see files like this at any time simply by submitting a request, including their current employers.

kal-el

Just because it's legal to do so, doesn't mean you should do so. All you are doing is fanning the flames.

fifteenthgreen

So you're asking the Register to be like the school district and keep everything a secret from the public? Public life isn't conducted in executive session, kal-el!

Bherrle

"be like the school district and keep everything a secret from the public?"

Really 15th??

fifteenthgreen

What do you call not disclosing that the stadium contribution of 1.7 million was included in the 3 million plus design loan? Also, you can't tell me the board didn't know Gunner was applying elsewhere. It doesn't matter, Brad. What is your plan moving forward?

Bherrle

The loan was voted on at a public board meeting. It was also the subject of a Sandusky Register Article in the fall 2012.

I'm sure the board knew he was applying elsewhere. What's your point? I don't blame him for applying elsewhere, and if he leaves, I wish him the best.

My immediate plan - pray for this community.

Good 2 B Me

Pray? What does that have to do with Gunner screwing things up and then trying to run away?

Bherrle

I don't think Gunner is to blame for this. I'm not saying he's perfect, but the blame does not rest with him.

fifteenthgreen

Was it disclosed at the Fall 2012 meeting exactly what the loan was to be used for? After all, it is our loan they are taking out.

Bherrle

Should be in the minutes. I was not at that meeting.

whattheBucks

fanning the flames ? are you serious? this community and school district is in the middle of an inferno right now. we need to get it all on the table and get it straightened out, the time for closed doors, secretly moving money, lying, and all the other crap that is going on needs to stop now. lets get it all out there and in the end all the bad and negative will be gone, this community and the school district will rebuild and be stronger than it was in the past. the answer is not all the haters voting no on everything because not 100 percent of everything is going their way. and the answer is not to all the supporters who vote YES on everything and just believe what is being told. I believe we have truly lost the focus on what this is about, the kids. this is a huge mess and it's not going to be fixed overnight, we need the community to pull together and create a solution, and if you don't want to be part of that then maybe you are part of the problem. 1 new person on the boe or 1 old person on the boe is not going to solve and or keep this problem from getting fixed. if you like what somebody is doing let them know, if you don't call them out and make them give you answers and make it public so their answers not going to just one person but to a whole community. we were at the top before and we will get there again. go pirates!! go Perkins Township !!

Good 2 B Me

This has EVERYTHING to do with the kids. We are showing the kids that when the powers that be are corrupt, you fight them and get rid of them in order to make the changes needed to improve the situation.

If we just vote yes just to soothe the kids, what are we showing them and teaching them?

Tell it how it is.

Alissa, the entire newspaper is based on public records requests. We see that. There have been entire stories on the basis that you did a public records request. The story is that he applied to other school districts. The story is not posting his application and resume. That is intended to smear in my opinion. Do some actual reporting and find some good stories. The stories intended to sell newspapers are not shining a good light on the community. Even the NO voters believe the district is a great district. 500+ students that choose to enroll there from outside districts must also think the district is good. I have never read a newspaper this bad. You just go too far. It is one thing to discredit somebody but it is another to kick them when they are down.

Alissa Widman Neese's picture
Alissa Widman Neese

I appreciate everyone's feedback on this topic and I'll keep it in mind moving forward. The Register's decision to post this information wasn't based on a decision to smear any district or make it look bad, however — it was a decision based on a stance of keeping readers informed about their public school leaders. I'm unsure how posting a superintendent's resume and application listing his credentials and achievements at a local district makes the said district look bad, but you're all entitled to your own opinions.

I hope my comments clarify our position on things.

whattheBucks

Well put Alissa, and not only that but when gunner is gone and somebody else is applying for this position I hope their resume also gets put out so we can see what this person's intentions, goals, and priorities are for our children in the future of our school district

Alissa Widman Neese's picture
Alissa Widman Neese

If there are any local superintendent searches in the future, you can count on it.

Nemesis

Alissa,

You could have reported on the relevant facts and collaborated them with redacted versions of the documents. There's no need to publish his personal contact information such as his phone number. As contemptible as Gunner's official conduct is, that doesn't justify opening him up to harassment in his home.

John Harville

PUBLIC school applications are PUBLIC information. It's the other 'blade' of the First Amendment.

Good 2 B Me

I have to wish Gunner the best of luck that one of these will turn up a job offer. I'd hate to see him continue to Detroy the Perkins School District.

whattheBucks

Don't worry Mr Gunner, i know you will find new employment, keep your chins up !

Bherrle

Real classy.

Good 2 B Me

Not near as 'classy' as the YES voters and their name calling and insinuations that us NO voters are all uneducated and dumb.

whattheBucks

Hey good, I'm not saying its you but it is a shame that this whole thing has turned into yes voters and no voters. all the focus has been on yes voters and no voters, we need to keep in mind the kids, we need to be kid voters and that is to do what is best for the kids, weather we love or hate a certain person of the process

fifteenthgreen

I agree on the yes, no division. It is what it is but has to stop to move us forward.

whattheBucks

You're right 15th all this garbage needs to stop for us to move forward. The writing is on the wall that gunner is gone, and someone earlier made a great point that he was brought in to move us in a new direction, and he did have BIG plans, too big of plans for what the community wanted to support (right or wrong) i think gunners issue was that he was not going to waver from his plan, and started doing some things that the community thinks ( and rightfully so) were dishonest and unethical. The yes's and the no's need to all take their blinders off, look at the whole picture and not just one factor or person and this whole situation / opportunity (mess) we have will turn around ! The yes lovers and the no haters remind me of our government with the repubs and demos, and look how well that works for us.

KURTje

Transparency is great."Authority" on all levels must be accountable.

KLS73

I would say the school board members know he is looking elsewhere as some current and former school board members are listed as his references.

ritt

Oh my......he has experience with levies and bond issues!
Personally, I am glad to see his resume. Probably should have left his phone number out though the email address might be helpful for those in the community to actually communicate with him. Then again, wasn't Bucchieri who he replaced?? Perhaps he should have worked harder at more grant funding...........

Darkhorse

When you deal with public dollars, everything is open and that is why we have a newspaper to dig for the information and get it out there. Gunner holds a public position and any kind of information is up for grabs.

Keep Focused

In many, many ways Jim Gunner has done an outstanding job for our schools. A large number of people close to the operation of the schools know that. At the encouragement
Of the School Board he put together and presented big and ideas and a big game plan.

For some people, the big thinking was hard to take.

He really doesn't deserve critisism. He has done many, many good things.

Bherrle

Very well stated Keep Focused.

observer

Bherrle, I don't know you, but I'll bet you're very easy to recognize, just look for the person with the brownest nose in Perkins township.

Bherrle

Well, just keep looking for me and let me know if you find me.

In all seriousness, I choose to voice my concerns/disagreements with officials in private for the most part. It is possible to support an overall cause even if you don't agree with every single item. I'll leave it at that.

Bherrle

Actually, I disagree with at least 3000
People in this community. My nose isn't as brown as you think. :)

Nemesis

"I choose to voice my concerns/disagreements with officials in private"
That is the preferred protocol in tin pot dictatorships and corrupt banana republics. That way, if you are not one of the elite, they can safely ignore your concerns without the risk that they might resonate with someone who is part of the elite, and if you are in a position of influence, they can arrange a quid pro quo that benefits you and you alone in exchange for dropping your concerns/objections. In free democracies it's preferred that everyone hear issues and how the leaders respond in a transparent way.

I find myself wondering why most of your rhetoric on this issue tends to evoke a rather fascist outlook on the relationship and power dynamic between government and the governed, and if perhaps you would be happier in a country whose ideals more closely fit with this servile stance you advocate in relating to public officials.

Bherrle

Keep wondering, your not even close.

Nemesis

Close to what? I didn't offer any speculation regarding what I was wondering about, which was WHY your rhetoric is so fascist in nature. In fact, I don't really wonder that much, because I actually couldn't care less what drives you to want to be a vassal of Lord Gunner. Unfortunately, there is no shortage of people who want to abdicate all their decisions to government officials who promise to take care of them.

whattheBucks

Yes he has done positive things, and it's to bad that it gets overshadowed by all the negative things he has done

Good 2 B Me

O.J. Simpson did many positive things too. What does society remember him for?

Bherrle

You are actually comparing Gunner to OJ??

Good 2 B Me

Are you really that stupid?

whattheBucks

Hey not 2good2 b me, come on man, you know you can't compare the two and i believe you meant it as a sarcastic joke, but you bring up a great point, you can do all the good you want and when you do something bad or wrong it may be what your going to be remembered as. like it or not, were all going to be remembered for something, it is our own choice if its good or bad

Good 2 B Me

Exactly. All that O.J. did that was good was undone by something bad. Not comparing the two, just saying!

Nemesis

I am reminded of some historical remarks about the trains at least running on time.

Nemesis

KeepFocused,

In many ways, Richard Nixon did an outstanding job for our country. He got us out of an imperialist foreign war, something neither our current president nor his predecessor have managed to do. He dealt decisively with inflation and the oil embargo. He opened China, and is unmatched to this day in his general foreign policy performance. A large number of the American people knew that - 1972 was the biggest landslide in our nation's history.

However, NONE of that justifies, excuses, or ameliorates the conduct that led to his resignation, nor the arrogance and conceit that drove that conduct. Nixon felt that his big thinking placed him above the law, and above the oversight and consent of the governed.

Gunner is guilty of the same failing. Regardless of his big ideas, his certainty of how right those ideas were, or even of his apparent belief, amply expressed in his open letter to the community, that the electorate wasn't enlightened to be entrusted with decisions regarding his big game plan for a shiny, sexy new campus, this nation functions on the principle that such decisions are their right. Al Gore once expressed admiration for China, because their leaders were not fettered by democracy from getting things done that "needed to be done." Gunner's supporters are echoing such sentiments.

Those legally empowered with the pursestrings said no to the chief executive's big game plan. He and his cabal chose to subvert that response with a financial shell game, finding a funding source, that, while technically legal, constituted an end run around the clear choice of those to whom he is properly subordinate in such matters. This describes TWO situations - The Perkins millage switch, and the Iran-Contra scandal. Given your nixonian defense of Gunner, and Gunner's choice to imitate one of the federal government's biggest constitutional scandals in recent history, I'd say that maybe you and your idol might want to seek out better examples to follow.

The Perkins BOE has its marching orders - offer the best education they can with the current revenue levels. They need to marshall their mental energies on carrying out their mandate rather than wasting time and money on demonstrations that they don't understand that no means no. If that means Android tablets instead of iPads, if it means the district stops subsidizing the recreational pursuits of those who like to play popular team sports, so be it.

Bherrle

A comparison to OJ, and now one to Nixon, and Al Gore (who invented the Internet, by the way). Oh, and the millage switch compared to Iran-Contra? Do we have any other bidders on over-reaching comparisons?

"Shiny, sexy new campus"? What do you base that statement on? Are you all still holding on the notion that an artists rendering of a fountain on paper meant that was a final plan? Do you all still believe that what the Sandusky Register printed back in 2010, that Perkins was set on building a $100 Million facility right then and there? There is Kool-Aid being drank alright, that it is not the flavor some No Voters have been accusing supporters of drinking.

I thought the BOE was suppose to look out for the good of the district and it's students, first and foremost. Not take "marching orders" from all taxpayers. This mindset is why most states in this nation don't allow it's citizens to vote on school taxes. Coming up on 14 years now of not passing a new levy. What was the reason 10 years ago? 5 years ago? 3 years ago? This year? What will the reason be for saying no 5 years from now? You can't blame it on Gunner 5 or ten years ago, and you won't be able to blame it on him 5 years from now.

The millage move was "legal" - period. No "technically" or "unethical" about it. No "end run". The millage moved was not voted millage.

Wald

The millage move was legal, yes. Whether or not it was unethical is opinion. You don't think it was. Fine. I do think it was, and it is a big reason why I vote No. No numbers or arguments will convince me otherwise. We'll just have to agree to disagree on the issue.

Nemesis

"I thought the BOE was suppose to look out for the good of the district and it's students, first and foremost. Not take "marching orders" from all taxpayers. This mindset is why..... "

....this country was formed, in opposition to the paternalist mandarins as which you see the BOE.

There you have it, folks - Bherrie's true colors. Democracy - bad. Public officials being subject to the consent of the governed - bad. BOE as an enlightened elite of paternalist overlords, taking from the citizenry as they see fit - good. According to Bherrie, the BOE doesn't work for you, you work for them, and you better work a little harder because pharoah wants more money to build more pyramids.

"most states in this nation don't allow it's citizens to vote on school taxes"

Taxation without representation - GOOD. Wow, is there no end to your fascist thinking? Imagine, Bherrie, the AUDACITY of these peons who actually DARE to demand a say in their own taxation. I can only imagine your outrage when they aspire to say a thing or two about curriculum or anything else you feel is more properly left to the discretion of our enlightened overlords.

Never have I seen such a tacit endorsement of the public school administration mantra of "hand over your wallet and your kids, then shut up and go away, because we're EXPERTS."

Nemesis

""Shiny, sexy new campus"? What do you base that statement on?"

I've not seen any fountain pictures. Gunner wants new buildings. If you think for one minute those new buildings will be spartan, functional, or anything but an overdesigned showplaces, then I have a bridge to sell you.
You don't need a million dollars to design a simple, practical, non-showplace school building.

It's pretty clear you've been drinking statist, authoritarian Kool-Aid that's left you unable to value anything more than deference to official government authority. Some of us are not as satisfied as you are with serfdom.

Wald

Careful, Nemesis. Subtle may reply with his convoluted figures and links from "Wired" and tell you how we NEED to pay what they tell us to pay. Forget having a say as a tax paying citizen. He'll tell you that we need to build $100 million schools to get people to flock to the Mecca that is Perkins Township. Don't question why...just fork over your tax dollars.

Nemesis

Bherrie, do you care to substantiate why any of my comparisons are overreaching? You know, the sort of factual, reason-based approach you so strongly advocated at your debut here, or are you going to just stand on naked assertion?

Keep Focused

Allissa, you would do well to consider the comments from "Tell it ...". Good balance is always hard to find and you always have to check if you are "in balance". You are in an environment that easly sees the negative in public Officals and and seems to to miss much of the positive. Of course some Public Officials get a good amount of positive recognition, and those officials are, to their credit, very good at fostering the positive relationship. But I feel your job is to stay balanced even when it is not easy.

Here it is predictable that posting the documents could cause people to pick out certain information and continue the with the critisism. Once again the good that Dr Gunner has done gets lost. Keep working to do a great job. Thanks.

local man

His resume should also include that his commute to the job should be shorter than his current one hour each way ( availablity for more after school functions) and that his school system has been very sucessful in shipping out their 11th and 12th graders to Firelands Community College for their education instead of providing within the high school.

Informed

First of all it's not Firelands Community College. It is Bowling Green State University Firelands College. Secondly, all high school students in Ohio who have a high enough GPA are eligible to take college courses for both high school and college credit per state law. It is much more financially responsible for students to go to Firelands than it would be for each individual district to offer a large range of dual enrollment options. Most students enjoy being able to take classes at the college. It also helps better prepare them for college.
I don't understand your problem with this.

themomx6

"Bherrle, I don't know you, but I'll bet you're very easy to recognize, just look for the person with the brownest nose in Perkins township."

^^^^^^ :)

Bherrle

See my response above.

Attacking me solves nothing.

KURTje

Mister Gunner's photo speaks volumes. America does not need leadership that is grossly overweight. Since smoking is social unacceptable so too should be unfit people who are supposed to serve the populace. Our healthcare is burdened by people like this.

oldpirate

What person in their right mind would ever come to Perkins with all the intelligent people willing to offer insightful advice about how to move forward. Maybe Ralph Roshong will come back. He can't screw it up any more than he did the first time.

whattheBucks

Rrrrrrrrralphyyyyyyyyyyyy !!!!!!!!!!

The New World Czar

A few thousand more dollars and an available date of January 1? No wonder he's not returning any phone calls. I'm actually surprised he isn't taking the remainder of the year off.

Keep Focused

To: Nemesis

Somehow I just now discovered your post.
I enjoyed your response.

I do believe in a democracy (through our elected representatives).

Just one very important point. The School Board and Dr Gunner presented, at least twice in public session, the options for funding new facilities. I was there to listen.

Moving the millage and using stimulus money was only one of the options. It was explained why that option, financially, was the best option.

Your Nixon comparison is not appropriate.

I am tempted to agree with you that the marching orders from the voters it to do the best you can with the money you have.

While many may feel that way at the moment, that game plan will completely fail in the next few years. An example would be a failure of the outside electrical system.

Several people have stated here that it is time to find the game plan that people can support. I support that idea. Now that everyone is paying attention and is pretty well informed, we have a better chance at this.

I ask you now to be part of new game plan.

fifteenthgreen

I'm in.

Nemesis

"Moving the millage and using stimulus money was only one of the options.
It was explained why that option, financially, was the best option. "

It was explained why Gunner&Co. BELIEVED it was the best option. The voters disagreed. Sometimes I present what I think to be the best option to my boss, and he disagrees. When that happens my choices are do it his way or look for another job.

"Your Nixon comparison is not appropriate."

It's very appropriate. Nixon accomplished a lot of good things, but ultimately, he was unwilling to work within the legally established structure of who was subordinate to whom. He did this because his arrogance told him that his ideas were so right that he couldn't risk them being rejected due to our system of limited government powers. That's very applicable to Gunner - he and the board have more than amply demonstrated that they refuse to accept the will of the electorate and will do anything they can to subvert it.

"I am tempted to agree with you that the marching orders from the voters it to do the best you can with the money you have....Now that everyone is paying attention and is pretty well informed, we have a better chance at this. "

Don't hold your breath. I've seen this happen before in other school districts. What do you want to bet the returning incumbents' first impulse is to go for another levy of the same or nearly the same size in a special election in February (which will cost the district 10's of thousands of dollars) or in the primary election? The tried and true strategy is to keep shoving a levy down the voters' throats until their gag reflex wears out and they swallow it out of sheer election fatigue. I'm pretty sure they'll have to put the levy up 7 times to break the current record. It's just more of the same arrogance Gunner&Co. have displayed up to now - "You're going to keep voting until you vote the way we want." A good illustration of their attitude is bherrie's elitist outrage that township voters DARE to vote against the will of those he believes to be their betters.

Here are some ideas based on the clearly (and repeatedly) expressed wishes of the voters.

-The voters have made it clear that they will not tolerate end runs around their power of the pursestrings, so step 1 is to move the inside millage back.

-The voters have made it clear that they do NOT want new buildings built, so step 2 is an ACCURATE assessment of the infrastructure that does not depend on the judgement of those who stand to financially benefit from the construction of new buildings.

-Triage what absolutely needs to be done, and submit the smallest possible fixed term levy to handle just those things.

-Continue pay to play. The operative word in that is "play," and most of the 'no' voters have made it clear that they do not intend to tax
themselves to subsidize the recreational preferences of other peoples' kids. People pay for their kids to play Little League in the summer, why should it be any different for sports that are played during the school year? Actually, sports programs should be privately run and community based, so the schools can concentrate their resources on their core mission (which is NOT playing games.)

-NO MORE IPADS. It's not the schools' job to outfit people with personal electronics, but if Perkins parents REALLY can't afford digital hardware for their kids (who I bet all have the latest smartphones) then comparable Android devices cost HALF as much, and should be furnished on a need basis, e.g. only to kids eligible for reduced or free lunches.

-The boosters need to start a fundraising campaign to payback the portion of the stadium costs that the Board borrowed, and the Yes campaign needs to start a similar one to retire the portion of the loan that went to planning a project that had already been denied by the voters. If it were up to me, Gunner and the Board members who voted for the loan would be held personally liable for it. I don't see how they even got it since Ohio law requires balanced budgets for school districts absent a voter approved bond issue.

- Cut the administration - we always hear about teacher layoffs, but never about any administrative ones.

- Contract out groundskeeping and landscaping, snow removal, and food service. The private sector knows how to do these more efficiently. A friend of mine who worked for one of the major vendors overhauled one district's food service to the point that it was returning enough profit to the general fund to pay for two additional teachers after one year, and twice that much the second year.

PyrkinsPyrate

This post is simply the most clear and concise statement defining the values of the No Voter. This is so succinct. Great work.

Nemesis

I'd like to add that the difference between the two sides in this is NOT about wanting good schools for the children of the commmunity.

The difference lies in acceptance/rejection of the proposition that dollars spent is a meaningful metric of quality education. Superintendents and board members almost always accept that proposition, and why shouldn't they - they're the ones doing the spending, and spending money is a very pleasurable thing. I once challenged a school board president to name a percentage of the community's local GDP going to the public schools that he would accept as "enough." 5%, 10%, 20%? When I got as high as 50% and he still wasn't willing to say it was enough, I just walked away in disgust. Imagine you and everyone in your community paying 50% of your income to the school district, and they STILL aren't willing to say it's enough.

donutshopguy

Keep,

Would love to be part of the new game plan. When is the first meeting?

Bherrle

I'm in as well, I would like to participate.
In the interim, the next board meeting is this coming Wednesday at 7 pm.

We need to have real, fact based, face to face discussions about these issues. Eliminate the emotion and work together on solutions.

wetsu

According to the Courier web site, Gunner and Kurt are scheduled for interviews this weekend. They whittled it down to five pretty early and those two made the first cut.

Common Sense

Good luck to both candidates. For all those who have criticized either man, just be careful what you wish for as it may come true. You have no idea what you may face should either of these men leave their current positions.

PyrkinsPyrate

Did anyone bother to check out ole turkey neck's resume? Just a long list boasting about raising taxes and handing out laptops. That is all this whole 100 million dollar campus would be, bullet points in his resume.How I wish we could get someone in here who actually cared about the community, wanted to live here and help make it a better place.

Nemesis

"Did anyone bother to check out ole turkey neck's resume? Just a long list boasting about raising taxes and handing out laptops"

Well, that's appropriate, since, when all is said and done, what most school boards REALLY mean by the job description boils down to "spend other peoples' money."

"That is all this whole 100 million dollar campus would be, bullet points in his resume"

BINGO!!!! That's what it's been about all along - how better to land a job running a high spending district (the brass ring for a superintendent) than being able to say you managed a 9 figure campus replacement project. It's also nice for the board members to have their names on a cornerstone. I like to call it their edifice complex.

Keep Focused

Nemesis

Our dialogue has reached the point of diminishing return.

I only offer one additional thought. Your criticism of "arrogance told him that his ideas were so right" might be directed back to you.

Just give it a thought. In this discussion I give you the last word.

Nemesis

"Our dialogue has reached the point of diminishing return."

That's funny, since no one else has offered any of the game plan ideas for which you asked.

"I only offer one additional thought. Your criticism of "arrogance told him that his ideas were so right" might be directed back to you."

That's utterly ridiculous. You have a major failure to grasp the concepts at issue.

Gunner subverted the consent of the governed - I'm not even in government. I've never said that if the vote goes against what I believe, I'll take measures to subvert it. I've never come anywhere close to faulting Gunner for vigorously ADVOCATING for what he believes - he can write all the open letters, hold all the information sessions, and say whatever he wants. His material actions with other peoples' money are the issue. I haven't confiscated money from people under threat of imprisonment or losing their home and then decided my ideas justified me doing other than what the voters said. If you don't grasp the difference between advocating for one's point of view and abusing a position of authority to force one's point of view on a population, then yes we have reached the point of diminishing return, because it means rational discourse is lost on you.