Gunner, Kurt apply to be Findlay Schools superintendent

Perkins, Margaretta superintendents are two of 10 applicants revealed Thursday
Alissa Widman Neese
Nov 1, 2013

Jim Gunner and Ed Kurt, superintendents at Perkins Schools and Margaretta Schools, respectively, are vying to be superintendent at Findlay Schools, according to the Findlay Courier.

An article posted to the Courier's website Thursday lists Gunner and Kurt as two of 10 applicants seeking the job.

When contacted Thursday, Kurt said he submitted an application a few weeks ago. The application process ended Oct. 25.

"It's an opportunity I'm exploring," Kurt said. "I'm very happy where I'm at. We've accomplished a lot and there's still a lot to accomplish, but I'm looking into that opportunity."

Gunner did not return a call Thursday evening seeking comment.

Findlay school board members hope to announce their selection in late December, according to the Courier. Findlay Schools superintendent Dean Wittwer is retiring at the end of the current school year.

Comments

fifteenthgreen

Twisted is you thinking it is ok to post video footage of children's fingerprints embedded in asbestos laced material. That could be one of your daughter's fingerprints, Brad and you find it acceptable that this hasn't been removed? What are we waiting for? Even if a new building is approved, it will take years to build it. Why, as a father, is this ok with you?

Strong Schools ...

Get the facts on the levy website and vote yes! Your questions will be answered on the FAQ and video page.
http://perkinslevy.org/

fifteenthgreen

This clearly was a waste of time!

http://www.perkinsschools.org/Do...

Suitcase Simpson

Oh to be a fly on the wall of the secret meeting room where Bhurl and Gunnie and the other yessirs have been meeting. Trying to come up with some damage control after their hero has been outed as going to Findlay Schools! Word on the street and in the coffee shops is that the yessirs are apoplectic and so angry that they may try to remove the levy from the ballot. You couldn't write this stuff if you tried. The board and Gunnie must leave before any levy will pass. Who would have thought that we could be victims of a little cabal with its hands in our pockets, claiming they'll start teaching out children so much better if only they had more money. Hogwash. Cut the teachers' and administrators' pay by 40 percent and dispose of the board and gunnie. They have never experienced a paycut. Time to expand their experiences!!! VOTE NO!!

BeLikeMike's picture
BeLikeMike

Haha, he just saw the writing on the wall! Michael Ahner made no secret he was going to fire him after he got elected on the 5th for unfairly firing his grandmother! Enjoy the unemployment line if Findlay doesn't hire you because if they don't Mike will see to it that you are gone on the 6th!!! Time to pay the piper Jim,,, you never mess with family!

Bherrle

Wow. Really? One board member has the power to fire a Superintendent? I did not know that. ;). (Sarcasm)

In all seriousness, if what you state is true, then thank you for confirming that Michael's real agenda is not serving the community, but rather is driven by a family personal agenda.

Not at all a good reason for people to vote for him.

fifteenthgreen

What is the agenda of the current board? Fix the asbestos issue posted on the school website or continue to use it as campaign material to get a levy passed? What is your priority? If kids are touching this stuff as evident from the video footage posted on the district levy site, why hasn't it been removed, Brad? No winks. No sarcasm. No smiley faces.

"Not a good reason to vote for him" but keep the morons in their that are allowing funds to be used for other issues besides taking care of an emergency.

Hawkeye

District levy site lied, Erie County Health Dept. had a different story
http://www.sanduskyregister.com/... It had their report on this link

fifteenthgreen

I know, Hawkeye. I'm just tired of them using children's fingerprints on asbestos laced ceiling tiles as a political scare to once again, attempt to get what they want. If it truly exists and children can disturb it, it should be removed immediately at all cost....pass or fail. Instead, they use the money as they see fit.

Hawkeye

I wholeheartedly agree with you it has always been about priorities and it seems that they have only one-what's in it for them.

Centauri

http://www.sanduskyregister.com/...

Somebody at the Perkins Local SD has been fibbing and exaggerating about the conditions at the school.

fifteenthgreen

Agree, Centauri. They are using this to induce panic and once again, scare the voters into buying into their own personal agenda! Just like with the stadium bleachers. All of a sudden they were unsafe and the insurance company decided not to insure them......even though they hadn't been changed for years. When they were all wooden, they were replaced and a heal plate was installed to reduce the chance of injury. They didn't need to be replaced. The old wooden ones did and they were. All LIES!

Strong Schools ...

The site did not lie...go to the board office and request the records for yourself. Go to the site for the facts and vote yes in November!
http://perkinslevy.org/

fifteenthgreen

What are you talking about, Strong Schools?

underthebridge

Gunner probably cannot be fired. He has a contract until or through 2015. Despite him being a divisive figure, the BOE gave him a lengthy contract which means we're stuck unless he finds a job elsewhere.

fifteenthgreen

He can be bought out if we take out another loan to pay him off!

fifteenthgreen

Hey Perkins levy campaign........stay away from our VETS on Tuesday! The kids didn't feel comfortable doing it the first time! Oh that's right. You're not allowed on the property.

Hawkeye

Heard from some people the other day that said Franklin won't campaign the OVH even though he is a vet.

fifteenthgreen

He has my respect...and vote!

Strong Schools ...

He didn't show up at the last debate either. Sounds dependable...sarcasm. Vote yes in November and support the students!
http://perkinslevy.org/

Hawkeye

You failed to mention Chapman missed one as well :)

SamSlugDuff

"It's about the children, it's about the school conditions, it's about the board, it's about the superintendent, it's about a new school, it's about the money spent on the stadium and the costly loan for study on new bldg. vs renovations, it's about millage moved without voter approval, it's about the teacher's salaries, it's about State funding, etc., etc. Bottom line it's about all these things period and how it effects the lives of everyone. Yes the State has to do something BUT it hasn't thus far therefore it falls back on those who are fortunate enough to own property (and passed on to those who don't). Where does it end. They say it will only cost $26 increase a month on a $100,000 home & to give up this and that. Well when everyone has their hand in your pocket that $26 is a lot. And why do they only list it based on $100,000 when many of the homes in the township are far above that amount which means it would be much more than $26/mo…when you take that amt. times a year it equals $312/year…that looks more intimidating and more in perspective than the $26/mo. does. Look at your property tax bill (auditor's website) and see how much of your total property taxes are already going to the schools…it's the majority of the total! To our family it's a matter of fix what you have, live within your means, make cuts like we all have done and continue to do and get back to basics. If the bldg. is so bad why did they move the administrative offices there. We live in a home that's older than Perkins school and is still livable through maintaining it (and it did have asbestos in it..which the plumber told us as long it is wrapped and not exposed there's no problem). Also note, the next tax bill you get will include the police levy that just passed and if this school levy should pass it is retro-active from January 1, 2013 which means an addtl. huge increase to your property taxes.. how many people do not realize this? We already voted NO because we feel enough is enough and will continue to vote NO because we simply can't afford any more increases period.

Subtle

I doubt anyone here reading this spends less than $26 per WEEK on things we don't need like gourmet coffee, or scratch off tickets, or sundaes from Tofts, or cigarettes, or alcohol, or going out for fancy dinners. Heck, I spent $26 dollars at Chili's the other night, just because I got a coupon in the mail. I tip my pizza delivery guys $3 minimum, so quite frankly, I probably spend as much as this levy is going to cost tipping delivery guys every month. Come to think of it, I take my daughter to Menchies every Friday after school, so this levy is going to cost less than I spend on her frozen yogurt every month!

I personally would feel like a self centered jerk if I refused to spend $26 a month on the futures of our children when I probably spend 10 times that month on crap I don't really need.

Hawkeye

Must be nice to have that luxury to spend your money on "Crap" you don't need. Maybe you can throw your extra money to the schools for the rest of us since you apparently feel like you can spend 10 times that amount.

Subtle

So you don't buy cigarettes, fast food, lottery tickets, coffee from Starbucks or Bigby, alcohol, or tip delivery drivers? I find that hard to believe.

Levy cost equivalents (per month for a 100,000 home):

(3) 12 packs of Budweiser
(1) Fifth of Captain Morgans
(1) Ribeye dinner with drinks at Chili's
(5) 5 dollar scratch off lottery tickets
(6) Whoppers from Burger King
(4) Banana Splits from Tofts
(4) Packs of Marlboros
(5) Super Butter Bear Coffees from Bigby
(<1) Pay-per-View Sporting event
(3) Movie tickets (no popcorn or drink)
(8) Tips to delivery drivers

You get the idea, you would be the extreme exception, not the norm if you had zero expenditures in any of the examples above each month.

Of course, everyone has a right to send their money how they like; I simply said for me, as long as I can afford unnecessary expenses like the items above, I personally would feel selfish complaining about money that would be used for the children of this community.

I personally know at least one no voter who spends $84 per week on cigarettes 0.0

fifteenthgreen

Factor in you daughter's medical bills from that "Asbestos crisis" at the High School. According to the levy website video, it's "everywhere in the high school"! Just like the "bleacher disaster". Make sure you don't forget about those future medical bills, Subtle!

donutshopguy

I must be the exception.

fifteenthgreen

Would you fix the asbestos problem immediately with that "$26", Subtle? After all, our children are potentially breathing in hazardous toxins! Why hasn't this been taken care of if we're not building a new school? You did say we are not building a new school, didn't you? I know you watched the videos, as well because you showed us that you are a plumbing/pipe expert. Would you remove the asbestos immediately or don't you care??? Is it ok for your daughter to be exposed to asbestos until a decision is made on the direction of the district. It's been an eight year problem according to the video on the levy site. Those children's fingerprint indentations could be your daughters. As a parent, why would you expose your daughter to asbestos filled schools when 2.5 million will remove it? Why would you put her in harms way? You chose not to put her in "dangerous" bleachers. Why do you think it is ok to subject her to breathing air filled with asbestos particles per the levy website? Children's fingerprint indentations = disturbing asbestos material = airborne hazardous particles. Your daughter needs you to step up and not take her to Menchies!

Strong Schools ...

Vote yes in November! Support the students.
http://perkinslevy.org/

BeLikeMike's picture
BeLikeMike

Bherrle, you make me want to hurl-e hahaha, keep on drinking that koolaide. It's not a "family personal agenda" it's justice, and it isn't just for the family. Gunner fired his grandmother because she didn't like his views. She was a long time teacher and because she wouldn't drink his koolaid, she was canned. I didn't have to confirm anything, it's no secret Michael Ahner is going to dethrone the tyrant, why do you think I'm voting for him. She had been there longer than him, he had no right!

You yesmen are just scared, all of you. I bet you are one of the board, and looking for a job yourself. Come Tuesday, Ahner is going to be sitting in your seat and he's going to fire Gunner.

We won't need a levy because Franklin is going to cancel all of the extra curricular programs you are so fond of that only serve to distract from the real purpose of school and that is LEARNING. How smug are you going to be after he cancels the football program and that stadium you dumped all that money into sits empty until we rent it out to other schools and actually start bringing money into the district!

Under Franklin's administration, once all the sports and extra curriculars are canceled, all that money for the coaches and bussing to events, and lighting for the stage, and groundskeeping costs, and pool maintenance, etc will all be able to be used to fix up the schools.

School is for learning, and no child is ever going to learn if all they care about is sports, or band, or drama, or all that other garbage! Vote YES to Franklin and bring an end to that nonsense!!

Subtle

/facepalm

I am without words 0.0

fifteenthgreen

Subtle - Answer my "self centered" question above. Would you immediately fix the asbestos crisis like we immediately fixed the stadium bleacher crisis?

Bherrle

So, just to be sure that I understand you correctly, Jay Franklin wants to cut all Athletics and Extra Curiculars?

And , Michael Ahner wants to fire Gunner?

Hawkeye

Bherrle-Did J tell you this???

Bherrle

Hawkeye,

Belikemike is stating that above. I am merely asking him to confirm his statement.

fifteenthgreen

Brad, add your thoughts to the discussion below with Subtle.

Strong Schools ...

So, you are saying it is okay for people to sleep on the job and his grandmother should not have lost her job for that. She got in trouble for other things as well. Good for Gunner for keeping quality in our schools. Vote yes in November and support the students. They will be the ones suffering if it does not pass.
http://perkinslevy.org/

Subtle

I believe, and unfortunately, I don't have time to research this at the moment, that asbestos poses no danger unless it is disturbed. If I remember correctly from just out of high school when I was helping renovate old buildings for a summer job, as long as it isn't disturbed, it is no threat.

Once you begin working on however, particularly its removal, the entire area must be sealed off as the tiny airborne particles are what really pose a threat.

I honestly doubt that it can be fixed for 2.5 million, but I don't have access to the contractor quotes so I can't say either way. What I do know is the 2.5 million is only 10% of the total cost of repairs needed on the entire high school.

I would bet, a brand new high school could be built for less than 20 million with no asbestos and completely up to current fire codes. It would be energy efficient, and certainly more secure than the current building.

So the question is, would I prefer they attempt to safely quarantine wings of the school while they remove the asbestos, all while renting trailer type classrooms to house the displaced students that will not be able to use those areas while the repairs are completed. For a cost of 2.5 million dollars that would be money simply thrown out the window if it proves to be a more financially sound decision to build new.

As I said earlier, I suspect they could build a new high school for under 20 million. If you subtract the 2.5 million from the 25 million dollar estimate from 2009 to renovate(that is probably now closer to 30 million), you are left with 22.5 million. Since that number would still be greater than the cost to build new, those asbestos removal expenses would just be demolished with the old building that is unsound in every way, from foundation to roof.

I realize you are concerned, so if I finish up early today, I'll go see what I can find about the asbestos removal process, completion timelines, and risk of the undisturbed asbestos.

Sorry for the slow reply, I had to go bang my head against the wall after reading BeLikeMike's post...

fifteenthgreen

I get what you're saying but allegedly this levy is not about a new school. You yourself said it. The removal of this hazard could have taken place during the summer....not during the school year. Why worry about sealing off any areas. They walk amongst it daily. It's "everywhere" according to the spooky, scary, frightening video posted online. They removed it years ago from the pool ceiling during the summer. Again, I'm not subtracting numbers from pseudo dollar figures. This isn't about the bottom line. This is about child safety and your BOE and levy committee took it upon themselves to film fingerprint indentations in hazardous materials. This is NOT contained if they are touching it. How can anyone argue this?

High School - 20 million? No way - More like 50-60 million or more! 2.5 million could save lives now....if you watch the video on the Perkins Levy Website! Which is it? What's the message?

Subtle

The entire campus that was voted down, all four buildings on one single set of grounds was only going to cost 50 million. Of course there was going to be an additional 50 million supplemented by the state, but still all 4 buildings were only going to cost US 50 million.

fifteenthgreen

So it would be 100 million plus now for all four buildings? Honestly, Subtle you would have to consider merging at that point. I would be curious to see what the student numbers would be with a merger/campus like that. It couldn't be any bigger than the top 15 school districts in the state. Again though, can this area support it without the industry to include a city wide merger. We've discussed this at length and I get what you're saying about people living outside of the city and living in rural areas. That used to be the Sandusky/Perkins relationship. Everyone worked in the city and wanted to live in the township. Now that most of the viable industry and manufacturing has left the entire rust belt, the challenges are rearing their ugly heads! Interesting discussion, though!

Also, you can't really fault those opposed to any additional expenditure a few years back to include a school of that magnitude. We all were coming out of an economic, global disaster and barely on the upswing of a recovery. We still aren't there yet.

oldpirate

15th you flip so much I wonder what your real agenda is. maybe you don't want to pay tax increase and tuition to SMCC? Yes there is asbestos in the school and needs addressed. But as stated by the health dept. report it is contained. Mainly because of good attention by the school. The health dept. report never stated that the issue didn't need to be addressed only that it was presently contained. You only speak of half stories. You have no interest in the whole story.

fifteenthgreen

No, oldpirate. The district brought up the asbestos crisis prior to the health department being called in by the citizens of the township to get the facts straight. The district is obviously choosing to ignore the health department's report, as well because they keep emphasizing it in their "scary, spooky" videos posted on their website. "Good attention"? Children are sticking their fingers in the stuff. How is that "contained"? Why do these children have the ability to stick/embed their fingers in these materials containing asbestos? Hey, we may have to get the health department back in there because their focus per the report was strictly on the piping. What do you think, oldpirate? Also, I flip because their/your message continually flips looking for anything that will sneak this levy through!

Strong Schools ...

Support the students in November. I have all the facts for you on the levy website!
http://perkinslevy.org/

oldpirate

Yes they did. A long term plan. Just like that high mileage car. Isn't broken now but you better do something about it. The health dept. report simply states that there aren't any active issues. I doubt your children often do things you tell then not to.Is every act of poor judgement your fault? We have a dim future with your lack of vision.

fifteenthgreen

No they didn't. A long term plan to an immediate crisis??? If the kids are touching it, it is being disturbed. I know that stuff and I can't believe it is accessible by the students. A "dim future" for any child breathing in those particle per your ignorance and the boards negligence. You must not care, though. Hell, you don't go there. It's your kid. Take one for your ole parents, kids!

oldpirate

Don't be so sure.

oldpirate

If so then the health dept report was in error?

fifteenthgreen

I think the health department report was way too vague for all parties involved. Were they aware children are disturbing these areas with their fingers? I think it is something that needs to be addressed beyond any levy campaign and I think you would agree. Questions just need to be clarified by experts in the field and all evidence needs to be presented. Still, for 2.5 million fix it for now and should a new school be built in the future, we can be rest assured that our children were safe in the meantime. They should not use it as levy marketing material and not expect to be called out on it. Safety first!

Your long term plan? http://www.perkinsschools.org/Do...

Subtle

Honestly, I share your concern about the asbestos, and ALL the repairs needed. If the boiler explodes, if the foundation causes some sort of structural collapse, if the old pipes allow sewage to leech into the drinking water, there are many things that need addressed.

Unfortunately, due to the state stealing from us to pay for other districts, and the fact that Perkins residents only contribute a fraction of what other area schools residents do in tax revenue, there hasn't been a sufficient revenue stream to address the problems. If Perkins received even close to what all other area schools receive in tax revenue, those problems probably wouldn't even exist.

I believe you or Centauri asked on another thread who decided to use PVC to patch the busted sewer pipes. I realize many of the readers here don't realize this, but Dr. Gunner does not have a position that is like the president of a company. He cannot implement changes, or hire a contractor, or have the pipes replaced without board... he can't even veto an idea. He can research options and make recommendations, but ultimately, the decisions rest with the board.

He applies policy and changes approved by the board and makes sure they are carried out to the board's specifications. From the looks of the sewage pipes in the video, it appears one ruptured. While replacing the pipes with cast iron would require board review and a vote, as well as bid submission from local contractors, Dr. Gunner does have the ability to use a small emergency fund to hire a contractor to patch said pipes in what was likely an emergency situation.

oldpirate

Boy you are startin to almost sound like a yes voter. Maybe hope for you yet.

fifteenthgreen

I am a yes voter when I believe in the direction and leadership of what it is I'm being asked to vote on. I'm not simply going to vote yes for something I don't entirely believe in. I strongly feel we all can resolve this but you have to admit, many, many mistakes have been made with this campaign. I too am an old pirate and love that school district. I don't like the way it is currently being administered and their mixed message.

fifteenthgreen

bherrle, add to the discussion and quit policing other comments. oldpirate gets it and is a big boy!

Bherrle

15th,

Quit playing games by changing your comments/questions after someone answers you.

Strong Schools ...

Get with it fifteenthgreen and vote yes in November!
http://perkinslevy.org/

oldpirate

xxx

oldpirate

Go Pirates!

queenjhb

vote no

oldpirate

15th I think we need new now. We missed the boat when we could have received state funding. If we aren't moving forward we go backwards. The issue is becoming critical. That said I don't have any indication whether the plan will be to fix the old or build new. I feel we have more to gain with a new bldg.

oldpirate

If we continue to vote no because we aren't happy about certain issues, soon there won't anything to fix. I have not been happy with everything that occurs but none of that changes the situation. I decided to get involved. I have learned many things. The idea of hidden agendas are nothing more than a ploy to confuse the issue and tear the community apart. There are so many splintered groups each with a different goal for the levy to fail. I only hope that enough people who support the Perkin Schools votes yes and then becomes involved in making the system the best it can be.

wantin2know

What are the priorities at Perkins? Can anyone truly believe that the underhanded schemes and ways of enticing votes are truly for the benefit of the students? Now the latest most pursued reason to vote yes is the asbestos. Really? Why is this problem is just being addressed now? Was the problem there prior to the stadium repair? Was it there for the last three or four salary and benefit raises for the teachers and administrators? Why wasn't the problem addressed and corrected way before this? It's time someone or all involved in the school operation be held accountable, from top to bottom. If you want things
repaired and updated it takes everyone to do their fair share. Even if it might mean benefit and salary reductions. It's the real world.
This is not a new idea, as a lot bigger operations than the Perkins School system have had no other choice but to take these methods to survive. Get your house in order before you can expect additional money.

Subtle

The asbestos isn't a campaign ideology, it was merely one of over a dozen informational videos on http://perkinslevy.org/video-gal... . In the past people had complained that there was not enough information getting out to the community, so they established a website to house all the questions asked of the board (including the answers that were given) as well as the powerpoint showing the exact math and tax laws that were used to make the inside millage decision (http://perkinslevy.org/downloads...) and numerous informational videos.

fifteenthgreen is the one who has tried to elevate the asbestos issue as the sole issue being addressed by the levy, and he's on the vote no crew.

As for the salaries, the teachers and administrators have had a pay freeze for over three years, and will continue that freeze even if the levy is passed. The teachers are far from the highest average salaries in the area.

They are however, educators who spent a small fortune to get their degrees and are teaching our children. I personally feel they should be making considerably more than your average employee without a college degree, and the reality is their salaries are on par with many of the positions in the area that do not require college degrees.

I could see the complaint if the teachers or administrators were the highest paid in the state, but state-wide, they aren't even close, not even in our little geographic area.

fifteenthgreen

"fifteenthgreen is the one who has tried to elevate the asbestos issue as the sole issue being addressed by the levy"

I shouldn't have to elevate an asbestos issue. It should be a non issue and should have been taken care of long ago.

"Honestly, I share your concern about the asbestos, and ALL the repairs needed."

Then speak up because I'm going to. Levy or no levy it needs to be addressed.

Again, an inconsistent message. New school. No school. What is it? Who is leading this campaign?

Again, you are wrong on the teachers salaries - see below:

http://www.sanduskyregister.com/...

eriemom

Do you know what # signifies on the table? There are teachers on it who do not currently work for the district, so I question its age.

fifteenthgreen

The table came from this July 30, 2013 SR article, eriemom.

http://www.sanduskyregister.com/...

Subtle

You realize that the average wage for that list is 60,528? Danbury's average is 68,826, Oak Harbor 62,686, Sandusky 61,860...

Do you also realize that many of these teachers have been there for decades? Over half of them have their Master's degrees. Employees at Gliddon, Visteon (or any auto workers union), or any area factory that have been there 20 years are making nearly that much and they didn't dump 70 grand and 8 additional years of education to get it.

Your average plumber, heavy machinery operator, road construction worker, mason, retail store manager, and even the manager at Burger King make that much money per year, some of those much much more.

In my opinion, they look a bit underpaid.

Hawkeye

Also work 60 hrs a week year round!! Been there done that! And you shouldn't pick on tradesmen they earn every dime they make especially plumbers!!!

Strong Schools ...

Teachers work all year. Just because they are not at the building does not mean they are not working on the next year's plans. Vote yes in November and support the students!
http://perkinslevy.org/

fifteenthgreen

Subtle, the world can't be made up of just teachers. There has to be a balance and I feel more emphasis needs to be put on the trades. It's impossible to find anyone reliable and skilled to provide these services anymore. Also, I'll give you the first few on your list, but I highly doubt a retail or fast food manager is dropping 60,000 plus a year. Our teachers are well paid for the cost of living in this area and I'm pretty sure they're going to be demanding more should this levy pass Tuesday.

Subtle

The teachers have agreed to a pay freeze until the 2015-2016 contract re-negotiations.

fifteenthgreen

Thanks, Subtle!

oldpirate

Ah yes. One of those splinters I talked about.

fifteenthgreen

Ah yes, just another one of those "splinters" that you're going to need to do a better job of persuading to change their vote.

oldpirate

That cheering is one thing that will never change.

oldpirate

I will add that there are no winners in this. What do you think you are winning? Future levies only cost more,School system takes years to recover.
And the economic recovery you talk about becomes only more cloudy. What business would want to invest here in this climate?

Hawkeye

United we stand, divided we fall.

bobshumway92

Vote No!

Hawkeye

As we get closer to the results, we as a community should be thinking what actions are we going to take should the levy pass? are we going to accept it and become more involved? If the Levy fails, what actions are we going to take and what solutions can we offer?

fifteenthgreen

Agree, Hawkeye. Both sides have some very valid points and arguments.

Strong Schools ...

fifteenth check out the website for facts and information. Vote yes in November!
http://perkinslevy.org/

bobshumway92

Strong Tool

goodtime1212

The boilers in the high school have been replaced a few years ago. 60 percent of the schools trouble is in 10 percent of the school, still voting no.

fifteenthgreen

Strong Schools, why don't you add to the discussion rather than bomb the comment section with the schools levy website. We're all aware of it. Go put signs in yards or better yet, hit the streets and sell your message door to door. Shake some hands!

Strong Schools ...

Fifteenth, I am one step ahead of you and I have already done that! You should come out and help and step away from your computer. Here is the levy website in case you did not see it. You always like to ask questions but never want to research them yourself so I will do the work for you...again. http://perkinslevy.org/ Vote yes in November!

fifteenthgreen

Well whatever you're doing, keep doing it because it's not working!

futurechange

Again, I have been reading these articles, blogs, and war of words between yes voters and no voters. I find this whole process crazy! I am a business owner who supported the levy once before because I've always been taught that regardless of personal opinion - you always support your schools. I didn't suport it the second time due to a bunch of no voters who shared their thoughts with me and seemed to make sense. So with this now being the third time, I have decided to go on my own. This time I have completely decided to not listen to either side, nor the somewhat bizzarre reporting of the news media, and search out the truth of all this on my own. Here's what I have discovered and felt like I now needed to share it.

To the "NO" voters, do not make up stuff...I have learned that too many of things you are saying are not based on truths, but your own opinions and misinterpretations. To the "YES" voters, you DO have concrete facts...make sure people understand that moving the inside millage was actually the right thing to do. If we move it back like I was led to believe we should, and like the no voters want, we will actually end up paying much more as tax payers. (I don't want to pay more that what I need.) I know this is very complicated to understand, but surprisingly, it is true. When I learned this from the state auditors information (not the two levy sides) I feel bad that I mistrusted the BOE in their decision. Now, I give the BOE great praise for making a very difficult decision. However, BOE, you needed to communicate this long ago so that we, the public, would truly understand the "why" of what you did. Maybe if you would have clearly communicated this sooner, we wouldn't be having all this debate and discussions about the levy now.

I 100% support this levy and encourage others to get out and vote...but please vote informed before making your "yes" or "no" decision. To the four school board candidates, all of you seem to have a passion for the schools and I commend you for that and your willingness to run. However, after meeting each of you, I would say this: Mr. Ahner please try and understand the schools funding and general operations should you get elected to serve; Mr. Franklin, please try to understand what the schools are about for the students and the community...you actually had my vote until I met you; Mr. Uher, please listen to what the community is saying and communicate to them; Mr. Chapman, as the one member running who is already on the board, should you get in again, please communicate with the public more. I think all of us in this community want to support the schools, and deep down, we do. However, we want to be involved and feel that you do include us in moving the schools forward. And, on the issue of Gunner leaving, let him do what he wants...it's his career, but it's our schools.

This is all I have to say! I will not be on this blog again nor will I waste time reading them anymore. I'm blogged out and am only making this one lengthy post! I wish the four candidates well. I wish the schools well in their levy. And I hope that regardless of how one votes - you get out and exercise your right to vote on Tuesday! Regardless of the outcome, I look forward to this community coming back together again!

bao

the move of the millage was the "right thing to do" in order to secure funding for 2 new schools to be built, which i thought the voters clearly stated they did not want. it may not be the best thing for business owners and property owners that truly cant afford the tax increases. it did not have to be all or nothing, that is what the boe chose

Subtle

In 2009, it was determined that the four buildings needed a combined total of $50 million in repairs.

In 2010 the board presented option to build a new campus for $50 million in tax payer dollars and $50 million supplemented by the government in stimulus. The voters turned that down, as was their right; however that still left the district with $50 million in necessary repairs needed.

After that proposed solution was turned down, and with the buildings still needing repairs, the board decided to move the inside millage after experts explained how that would transfer much of the financial burden to commercial properties and allow the money moved to grow as property values increased.

That inside millage will help pay for the $50 million in repairs NEEDED SINCE 2009.

The high school needed $24 million in repairs in 2009. That number has probably grown as almost 5 years has passed since that estimate. That estimate also did not include any estimate on the cost of improving and maintaining the parking lot or grounds.

The board has not stated that they are going to build a new high school, that is something misinformed 'no voters' ASSUME. The board will apply the best resolution available with the least financial impact to the taxpayers.

Currently, it is undecided whether the high school should be rebuilt mostly, in my opinion, because they fear backlash from the community if they build new EVEN IF IT IS LESS EXPENSE FOR THE TAX PAYER over the long haul. That doesn't change the fact that the buildings need repaired.

This levy is an OPERATING levy. NONE of the money from this levy will be used to build new buildings or repair the old ones; however the buildings STILL need repaired.

The board heard the voters when they showed they do not want to support a levy that would be used to either build a new school, or repair the old one; so instead, they moved the money to inside millage to earmark money for repair, because no matter how you slice it, the buildings STILL need repaired.

That is what the board does, they work within the confines of what the community, finances, and the law allow to find the best solution for both the school and taxpayer...it is often quite a balancing act.

It doesn't matter who is on the board, they all have to conform to that mold. Franklin could get elected and propose that sports, band, and extra-curriculars be canceled as someone mentioned earlier; however, it's unlikely that the community would allow that regardless of how great an idea he thinks it is. There are a number of interest groups (parents, students, staff, community, etc) and even more separate agenda within each of those groups. The board attempts to find a solution that is best for everyone involved, but still financially responsible and beneficial to the school; and like they say "...you can never please all of the people all of the time".

The Perkins board has been working with as little as half the tax revenue that some other area districts receive, still they make it work. They come up with alternate means (like the inside millage) when voters don't want to pass a levy, because no matter how you slice it, THE BUILDINGS STILL NEED REPAIRED.

If you (other schools in the area) have a car and I (Perkins schools)have a car and someone (taxpayers) gives us both money to maintain them but gives you twice as much, my car is certainly not going to be as well maintained as yours.

Eventually, after years of maintaining only what is absolutely necessary, my car is going to need a large investment of funds to keep it running; while yours is going to still be running well.

So I ask you (taxpayers)for money to fix the car, but you say no. What option am I left with? I rearrange my finances to allow money to be allocated to the repair of my car, because no matter how you slice it, my car needs repaired or I won't have one.

Did I mention that the board does all this while the state steals 2.5 million a year from us to pay for other districts that they believe need it more than we do?

fifteenthgreen

If they moved the inside millage for repairs, why haven't they been made yet? Why post videos of asbestos, cracked steps and missing mortar in brick joints. Use the money you moved and fix the items listed. Why are they waiting?

Subtle

Fair question 15th, and I'm going to try to answer it to the best of my understanding, though I am far from an expert on the subject. The inside millage is a fixed 5.2 mil allocation of each year's collected tax revenue.

The decision to move the inside millage was made in 2011, so basically, only 5.2 mil of a single year's worth of tax revenue has been collected so far. It is a fund that was established to grow until there is enough to either perform a large scale renovation, or build new.

The inside millage was not setup to simply boost the school's yearly repair budget as that is simply not a good long term fix, and quite frankly, you would run through all of a single year's 5.2 mil worth of collections and see very little in return. It would appear as though that money just vanished.

Instead, it builds, year after year until there is enough to complete a substantial repair.

Going back to my car analogy, if I have an old car that leaks oil, needs new gaskets, and has a cracked block; I could take a substantial amount of money (pretend this is the currently collected year's worth of 5.2 mil) and repair the head gasket, and that money will be gone, but it doesn't change the fact that the entire engine will need replaced or rebuilt completely and when that occurs, my expensive head gasket repair will be destroyed.

What I can do instead, is earmark that substantial amount of money for my complete engine rebuild or replacement, and set it up so that next year I will get exactly the same amount (5.2 mil fixed). After a couple more years have accumulated, I will have enough to either replace or rebuild my engine.

In the meantime, I switch to a heavier weight of oil, and put a quart of it in the car every month, keep it running in spite of the leak. By putting a little money into oil (repairs) every month, I can keep it running for years for far less than even that first gasket repair I mentioned; all while my fund grows to rebuild my engine completely. It is the smartest financial plan over the long run.

Like the oil, the school replaces the asbestos tiles as they get damaged, such as how someone earlier mentioned the tiles in the pool area. Humidity had damaged those tiles to the point where they posed a potential risk if their structural integrity failed to hold so they were replaced. Likewise, the sewer piping was replaced with PVC rather than pay prevailing wage on a full blown cast iron repair.

This money will build, and build quickly as long as it is not nickled and dimed out. If we do that, it will all be gone and it will appear that it did very little good in the long run...which actually, if applied that way, would do FAR less good than if allowed to grow.

I probably botched that a little, like I said, I'm far from an expert, but that is the best way I can explain it based off talking to people who know it much better than I and reading the inside millage information presentation pdf (http://perkinslevy.org/downloads...) and from reading the Q&As. I hope I did it justice, my apologies if I didn't.

bao

and the 3.5 million dollar loan was for? to be paid back how?

Subtle

The loan was to examine the costs of repairing the facilities as its been almost 5 years since the first estimate and building materials, building codes, energy efficiency standards, and prevailing wages have changed.

It was also to analyze the comparative costs to build new on a building by building basis. It will be paid back out of the inside millage as well.

It would have been incredibly negligent to NOT examine the cost of building new. Imagine the backlash if after all repairs were completed, it was determined that it would have been millions of dollars cheaper to build new, or that the completed repairs are going to need to be repeated again in 10 years for the same cost. You can't just jump into things blindly.

Like I said, I'm not an expert; and 3.5 million seems a lot, but I imagine architectural fees, site surveys, and cost analysis for other large projects (take the new NOMS building for example) are probably very similar. If I understand correctly, the board takes the lowest bid out of qualified entities for projects such as these.

Hawkeye

Hey Subtle, I have talked to Franklin and as far as I know he has never once said he wanted to cancel extra curricular or sports. He had a daughter who played soccer for 4 years with Perkins and all he has told me was that he wanted to cancel these unsustainable fees just as Gunner had said, I believe you should watch the debate again.

Subtle

You may be right, I was going off what BeLikeMike (he's on the 'vote no' side and a big advocate of Franklin and Ahner) had stated earlier to illustrate a point. I did have someone else recently tell me that he had told the band conductor that he wanted to cancel band funding as well; but then that's how rumors get started I suppose. I have never personally talked to him beyond watching the debate, and he didn't go into any great detail about anything there.

I wasn't stating that I knew for a fact. It was an example of an (in my opinion) extreme idea that may seem great to one group or board member, but one that would never be allowed to be implemented by the community. I could have as easily used Ahner proposing a merger between Perkins and Sandusky (prior to the debate he stated it was worth considering). The point was you could have a great idea or a really bad one; however, it still has to be approved by the board and the community for the most part.

I apologize if it was taken as gospel instead of an illustrative, hypothetical example... I wasn't trying to put words in his mouth. My bad!

Hawkeye

Thank you subtle for the clarification, I do see you using it as an example and I think, hopefully, in my opinion of course, who ever gets elected they go into the position with open eyes and look at all sides of the picture not be closed to suggestions, that Subtle, would make a great leader.

bao

subtle,
I am not "misinformed" nor do i "assume" they are going to build a new academy.i was told by the supt they are waiting to secure operating funds before "going ahead with the building project" ,but to "continue planning"

Thomas Paine

.

wantin2know

Subtle and Strong Schools: How many local businesses and industries have the NUMBER of wage and benefit packages in excess of $100,000.00, or close to that amount, that is paid to the employees of Perkins Schools? Two thirds of the total expenses of $13,000,000.00 is paid to the staff in the form of benefits and wages. How many citizens can or could ever claim a wage and benefit package to match that? Other school districts apparently don't have the problems Perkins does so you are comparing apples with oranges. Not to mention the $300.00 per month vehicle allowance that is generously given to Gunner.

Subtle

"How many local businesses and industries have the NUMBER of wage and benefit packages in excess of $100,000.00, or close to that amount, that is paid to the employees of Perkins Schools?"

- I am unaware of any employee in Perkins receiving a $100,000 benefit package.



"Other school districts apparently don't have the problems Perkins does so you are comparing apples with oranges."

- We sure are, every other school district in the area receives much more tax support than Perkins.

For residential, every other district in the area pays on average 11.9 mils more than Perkins with some as much higher as 18.5 mils (Sandusky).

For commercial, every other district in the area pays on average 22.8 mils more than we do with some as much higher as 28.6 mils (Vermilion).

You are certainly correct, apples to oranges. Perkins does what they can with as little as HALF the tax support as some of these other districts!

oldpirate

Future thank you for your honest assessment. Very well stated.

draw1999

out with the old in with the new vote franklin and anher

underthebridge

Subtle - I appreciate your detailed explanations. I really do. In many ways, you've articulated these things better than the superintendent, the BOE, and the levy committee.

I look back on the first levy effort and actually feel bad that it didn't pass. I don't blame the community. Instead of requesting a $50 million dollar facility in which the community ponied up $25 million and matching funds netted $25 million, this administration thought lets get twice as much: $100 million dollar facility. Ridiculous. I think that is one of the reasons the community rejected that plan. It did not come off as a savings. It came off as extravagance.

I think the May and August levies failed because of the money spent on the stadium (above and beyond their initial projections that the entire plan would cost $1.7 million with the boosters raising half and the school district matching half amounting to $850,000 in taxpayer funds). The school district gave $1.7 million for an admittedly great stadium that to a lot of people represents extravagance.

Keep in mind, this is all against the backdrop of an economic downturn that still didn't motivate these people to adjust their plan. For cripes sake, you'd think this plan was the bible or the constitution given how much they referred to it as an unbending document.

No adjustment to the big plan given the downturn in the local and national economies. Nope. No adjustment to the plan given the state raiding the budget. Nope.

What is a taxpayer to do? We're stuck. You'll get your building just like you got your stadium. You've held the teaching staff, the support staff, the students, and the taxpaying citizens hostage.

If the levy passes, it isn't a victory. I predict these people will not be able to stay in budget. Why? They can't adjust. They've not done it on their own. Don't tell me they scaled the plan down from $100 million to $50 million. They did not do that on their own. The voting public required them to.

I'm sad for the community. I'm sad for the schools, the students, the teachers, and the citizens.

wantin2know

How many employees have a combined wage-benefit package of $100,000.00, or close to that amount? How many school systems give a $300.00 a month car allowance to their superintendent?

PyrkinsPyrate

In the last few verbose postings by Subtle-this nonsense about car repairs they do not mention that for years the money that was supposed to go to capital improvements was squandered to rent laptops for each child so that Gunner could do his little laptop research for his dissertation. That is why the schools need repairs. The money to maintain the schools went for computer leases.

Subtle

The annual hardware cost for the laptop program is $229,000 after Apple buyback. That is approximately the SAME amount that was spent on upkeep and maintaining the old computer labs. With that in mind, NO money was taken from anywhere else for that program, existing allocations of money were simply applied differently for MUCH better results.

In addition the buildings were running antiquated equipment, none of the buildings were networked, and the network security was such that high schoolers were able to figure out how to go wherever they wanted on the web.

This is an age where we are reliant on computers. The answer to ANY question is a mouse click or two away and appears instantly. Technical fluency and familiarity are far more important to our student's futures than saving the money, that in a single year couldn't even fix the pipes.

The experts believe the following:

"The dominant model of public education is still fundamentally rooted in the industrial revolution that spawned it, when workplaces valued punctuality, regularity, attention, and silence above all else. (In 1899, William T. Harris, the US commissioner of education, celebrated the fact that US schools had developed the “appearance of a machine,” one that teaches the student “to behave in an orderly manner, to stay in his own place, and not get in the way of others.”) We don’t openly profess those values nowadays, but our educational system—which routinely tests kids on their ability to recall information and demonstrate mastery of a narrow set of skills—doubles down on the view that students are material to be processed, programmed, and quality-tested."

“The fundamental basis of the system is fatally flawed,” says Linda Darling-Hammond, a professor of education at Stanford and founding director of the National Commission on Teaching and America’s Future. “In 1970 the top three skills required by the Fortune 500 were the three Rs: reading, writing, and arithmetic. In 1999 the top three skills in demand were teamwork, problem-solving, and interpersonal skills. We need schools that are developing these skills.”

Perkins is developing those skills. I don't care what your area of expertise is, any student today can look up any subject and within an hour have a working knowledge of whatever you think is your specialty; compound that with the fact that they will be accessing the most up to date methods and materials, as well as crowd sourced consensuses on what the best way to do something is, and we recognize that these future generations can be true experts on anything that peaks their interest.

If you want my opinion, we need more emphasis on technology. Allow programming to be counted in the language requirements for college. Spanish and French, the old go-tos are pointless. If you want to teach skills that will be useful in the not so distant future, teach them Chinese and programming languages, app development, computer assisted art / design, problem solving / game theory, public speaking, etc.

That is not to say they don't need any traditional skills such as reading, math, and science, but the world is very different now than it was even 10 years ago.

$229k per year is just a drop in the bucket when applied to repairs, but, those laptops insure our children have access to the tools they need to succeed in the future.

Sources:
http://www.wired.com/business/20...
http://perkinslevy.org/content/c...

fifteenthgreen

Come on, Subtle. You can help make a difference on this topic...pass or fail!

Asbestos or laptops........laptops!

Asbestos or stadium donation........stadium!

Asbestos or 3.5 million design loan...............loan!

Asbestos or save/move the millage for what you want...........save it?

What are your priorities, BOE?

Subtle

It would only take 10 years to pay for the asbestos removal using the money that would be saved canceling the laptop program... maybe they should get right on that >.<

The asbestos isn't an immediate danger and areas that become even POTENTIALLY dangerous get fixed immediately.

fifteenthgreen

Or use money that they moved for the very purpose of repairs. What are they saving it for? Use any means possible to ensure the safety of the children. Hasn't that been the BS message? I don't care where the money comes from. Do you? They've had it and chose to spend it on other more important projects like football fields. You know as well as I do that it is a load of crap and they're just using it for their scare tactics.

So we wait for something to happen before we act? Again, more lies!

Equity

Gunner's dissertation was done well before he was hired by Perkins. The date of the dissertation was August 2007. It's online. Do your research before you make accusations.

tk

The choice for superintendent at Findlay isn't between Gunner and Kurt. They have had a number of applicants.

Subtle

"Subtle - I appreciate your detailed explanations. I really do. In many ways, you've articulated these things better than the superintendent, the BOE, and the levy committee."

Wow! Thanks underthebridge :) , I'd love to take all the credit, but a lot of what I explained was explained to me by Rick Uher. As someone who rarely takes anything at face value, I looked into it and found that he has clearly done his research and has a solid understanding of all the current issues.

I have to say that surprised me as he isn't a current member and must have spent an extraordinary amount of time to research all this with just the prospect of joining the school board. Prior to that, I hadn't given a ton of thought on who I was voting for for school board; however, I want someone who is going to put in the time and do their own research to find the best solution, and I believe Rick is that person.

He also expressed the best plan I have heard for bringing the community back into the BOE issue process and repairing the communication bridge between the board and the community.

Currently, the BOE votes on the previous meetings issues at the start of each meeting. Basically, this means that if you hear there is a vote on say adding motion detectors to security lights, and decide you want to know more; when you show up to the meeting you will get to watch the vote, but not ask any questions or discus the issue.

Rick wants to move the vote to the end of each meeting and open the floor to comments and discussion prior to the vote so that any in attendance can have their questions answered and basically, have a say in the process. This is, in my opinion, a HUGE step in repairing the divide between the BOE and the community. Will that make the meetings a little longer? Definitely; but he has already shown he is willing to put in the time, and that's what I want in a representative.

(Edited to add the original comment I was replying to after I posted this as a general comment instead of a direct reply. Sorry for any confusion.)

BeLikeMike's picture
BeLikeMike

Hmmm, let me see, repair the relationship with the community or save millions when Franklin discontinues extracurriculars? I think I'll take the millions. I saw you not so Sbutly going on and on about the laptops earlier, and I will be brutally honest. I don't care if they have to share textbooks as long as I don't have to give my hard earned money to the school.

underthebridge

Subtle - I've attended BOE meetings over the years. This issue of when the public comments and the vote are held has been addressed before. Nothing. I'll believe it when I see.

You still did not address this BOE's inability to adjust their plans with the building given the economy; with the stadium given the state of disrepair of the schools, etc. Furthermore, you didn't address their inability to stay even near their original projections on the cost of the stadium. Extravagance.

fifteenthgreen

Another day and they still refuse to address the asbestos issue. Waiting on tomorrow, I guess. If the levy passes, I'm sure they'll begin work on removing this hazard immediately.........Nah! We have a home playoff game to get ready for!

Bherrle

15th,

No one has ever stated the asbestos is an immediate issue. The health departments inspection indicated it wasn't an immediate issue. It is however, a long term issue, that along with the multiple other long term issues, require a significant amount of financial resources to deal with, whether it is renovation or building new.

The priorities of the district are to deal with all of those issues, at the best long term price for the taxpayer, before they become emergencies, as the stadium did.

fifteenthgreen

What about the fingerprints, Brad? They don't lie. It's on the video.

The stadium was a lie. Those bleachers were in no worse shape than the year before and they would still be the same today. That being said, if the boosters wanted to raise the entire amount to fund the renovation, great. Instead, they jacked up the budget and put it out of reach thus requiring assistance from the district.

Centauri

What happened to Duane out on Autumn Ridge? Doesn't he support the school levy anymore since he couldn't get his property valuation down at the Erie County(OHIO)BOR so he went all the way to Columbus, Ohio and still failed?

Many of the pro-levy supporters got their valuations down for property taxes. Now they pay less to the school. Check the public records.

Bherrle

Centauri,

How many non-supporters got their property taxes lowered? You report one side but not the other, why is that?

bao

how many supporters dont pay property taxes mr herrle?

fifteenthgreen

Asbestos or $260,000 annually for laptops..........laptops!

Asbestos or 1.7 million stadium donation...........stadium!

Asbestos or 3.5 million design loan........................loan!

Asbestos or move the millage for what you want.....move it!

What are your priorities, BOE? I don't believe you want to fix it. You want to use it for your campaigns!!!

Levy campaign asbestos video - http://perkinslevy.org/content/f...

draw1999

make gunner earn his money have him cleanup asbestos

queenjhb

Its time [again] vote no.

VOTENO

How long after the election results are in will they announce another levy will be on the ballot?

Transplant1

I think this yes and no thing is a huge community issue. I have posted before and still see the same ole people here whining and complaining. Same ole people same ole conversation. When is someone going to take the fight to the people who actually have been told that we fund schools unconstitutionally. Who is going to lead us to Columbus to pitch the fight. Who is going to say....our district rep talked to us and told us there is nothing we can do. Who is going to go to the next level and end up in Columbus. If you vote yes we all pay. If you vote no, eventually we will pay one way or the other. Fix the school, move mills, asbestos, laptops, pay to play, pay to learn, take your pick. This levy does no one any good. The outcome is the same......EVERYONE PAYS. It may be you, your kid, your grand kid, relative. How bout if it passes.....the home owner. Why is it Ohio has been funding schools on the back of the land owner for years, been told its unconstitutional and we just sit back and pay. Then we all get to read todays paper and some nimrod says until the school learns to budget they wont vote on any levies. So now we have someone not voting. How responsible is not voting. We can read the comment many ways, but not voting is a cop out. Stop crying Perkins, you too Huron. Everyone who votes yes or no, we will all pay in the end.

VOTENO

Vote NO! Vote for Franklin & Ahner!

Transplant1

If Franklin and Ahner win, and a levy goes on the ballot with Franklin and Ahner's blessing does this mean that VOTENO is retired and VOTEYES is born? Are those two the community answer? Are they going after Columbus. Or are they another short term solution to a long term problem?

fifteenthgreen

Either way: Vote Either way: There's work to be done!

icuthair

Please please please take Kurt! Hopefully when the new board members are elected he'll be the first thing to go!

The New World Czar

First Findlay, now Tiffin schools?

Perkins2060

Where did you see or hear that? That's great news though. I pray someone hires him.

fifteenthgreen

Unbelievable!

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