Guns have grip on Sandusky

In the days after Officer Andrew Dunn's shooting death, his father denounced the violence in the city.
Sarah Weber
Apr 4, 2011


In the days after Officer Andrew Dunn's shooting death, his father denounced the violence in the city.

Matt Dunn grew up in Sandusky, raised his family here and has spent more than 20 years on its police force.

For many of those years, Dunn said, an officer's biggest concern was maybe dodging cars.

"Now all these little ones that I'm looking at here are dodging bullets," he said. "This is an every-night occasion in town anymore that we have shots fired. It's senseless. And what I'm going through, what his mom is going through, what the rest of our family is going through, I hope nobody else has to go through."

Andrew Dunn, 30, died March 19 after he was shot five times during a traffic stop on Tyler Street. A grand jury has indicted Kevin Randleman, 50, of Sandusky, for murder and related weapons charges.

The gun Randleman allegedly used to shoot Dunn was illegally concealed, police said.

Just three days before the Tyler Street shootout, meanwhile, a masked man robbed the Best Budget Inn on Cleveland Road at gunpoint. He got away with an undisclosed amount of money.

Officers have also investigated several recent reports of gunshots in the city.

Gun violence peaked in June and July 2010, when shootings plagued numerous Sandusky neighborhoods, Sandusky police Detective John Orzech said.

Police made a number of arrests after last summer's shootings, and the gunplay quieted for a while.

But recently it has flared up again, Orzech said.

In fact, the city's spate of gun violence has progressively become the worst he's seen in his 13 years at the department, Orzech said.

"We're going to have to do something to curtail it," he said.

Officers who try to clear illegal weapons and their users off the streets don't have an easy job ahead of them.

The revolver Randleman allegedly used to shoot Dunn has not been documented since it was sold in 1975 at a Tennessee gun shop. A .38-caliber Colt "Detective's Special," the weapon has never been listed as stolen.

"I'd say 90 percent of the guns we deal with are like that," Orzech said.

Randleman himself was the victim of gun violence in the city on June 12, when he suffered a superficial leg wound during a gunfight at Hancock and Neil streets, according to police records.

In that incident, members of two local gangs started firing at each other at about 1:45 a.m., unloading about a dozen .40- or .45-caliber shots near a crowd of about 60 people.

A week later, bullets narrowly missed a woman and her son as they slept at a residence in the 1200 block of First St. As many as 12 bullets were fired blindly into the home.

Gunfire rang out again in the city June 20 and July 6, when bullets went through homes in the 1600 block of North Larchmont Drive and the 400 block of Reese St., respectively. The occupants in the homes escaped injury.

On July 14, a 37-year-old man suffered a bullet wound to the stomach and collapsed at Columbus and Scott streets. An early-morning jogger found him.

Then, on July 19, another man was shot in the leg while walking down Huntington Drive.

Sandusky ex officio mayor Dan Kaman said city commissioners are discussing their options as they set out to reduce gun violence in the wake of Dunn's death.

Commissioner Julie Farrar encouraged residents to speak up and take responsibility for improving the city's safety.

"When you see people shooting guns, don't pull that, 'Oh well, I didn't see anything,'" she said at a recent commission meeting. "As soon as something happens to one of your loved ones or next-door neighbors, you need to speak up.

"It's hurting the police department when people are not speaking up," Farrar said. "People are not saying what they know."

Sandusky police have a tip line — 419-627-5980 — residents can call and anonymously leave information.

The police will also allow people to drop off illegal and unwanted firearms, Orzech said.

In light of the recent gun violence, some residents might want to remove illegal weapons from their households. To do so, they can simply call police at 419-627-5863 and make an appointment to turn over the guns.

"This crazy, senseless violence has got to stop," Matt Dunn said. "There is no racial issue; there is no issue other than civility."



 Gun control is pointless if people who buy guns legally turn around and blindly sell them to anyone . Point in case of this gun Randleman used which has been in the wind over 30 years . There will always be illegally weapons out there , so perhaps keeping  better track of criminals would be better along with harder sentences and strict tracking of drug offenders . 

Just Thinkin

GUNS !!!! MY BUTT It's fools with them and JUDGES who slap hands and prisons with a comfortable lifestyle and better social programs than a working person can afford, GUNS NO! Jail time and chain gangs  YES !!!!!!  through out the P C Crap jail is jail not a social club nor a fitness center !

Trigger from Erie

What is all this talk about "unregistered" firearms? Since when is there a law in Sandusky, or Ohio for that matter, that requires firearms to be "registered?" Registered with whom? It's about time somebody clears this up (I'm looking at you, Sandsky Register, since you seem to love throwing the phrase "unregistered firearm" around). As for encouraging people with "unregistered" firearms in their homes to turn in their guns to police, that sounds like a way to get people who are law-abiding, albeit confused by information they are hearing about a registration scheme that does not exist, to turn over their means of self-defense in an increasingly dangerous city. Great idea.

Señor Clown

Thank you, Trigger. I too have been uneasy with the media and community commenter use of the 'unregistered' firearm terms. To the best of my knowledge, the only registered firearms in Erie county are the Title II weapons which are required to be registered with, and transfer by, the BATF by order of the National Firearms Act. This 'unregistered' talk needs to stop, as it is misleading and confusing for the general populous that is largely ignorant to what the laws pertaining to firearm ownership actually are. Law enforcement and media should know well enough to differentiate between 'unregistered' (which is ANY legally or illegally obtained firearm excluding machine guns, suppressed firearms, or short-barreled rifles and shotguns in the ATF registry) and people carrying 'unlicensed' - as in having a pistol and carrying it, concealed, without a concealed carry permit from the State of Ohio or a reciprocal state. 


In biblical times they used stones. Guns are not the problem. We are right where the social engineers want us to be. The destruction of morals. The hatred of religion. The rise in divorce and cohabitation. They will let it go until they can install martial law and thus flush the constitution down the toilet for good. May Mr. Dunn rest in peace I show no dissrespect to his soul. However violence in Sandusky has been an issue for a long time. Being a police officer himself his father knew this. But it took the death of his own son to speak out now. Taking guns is what every nation in the world has done before they became a totolatarian government. The answer lies with every american citizen. Get back to God. Restore morals and the family. You can be the spoiled child kicking and screaming in your unbelief or you can swallow your pride and give to God what is Gods.

brutus smith

 I thought God gave everyone a free will? Getting back to God will stop gun violence? Really? I don't think those people in the south who were hung or shot to death after Sunday church services would agree.


I would like to know what type of people are using these guns. Are they all low income, welfare, middle class? Are they white, black, hispanic, all races? Are the guns used in one certain area of town? Is it safe to go to the mall and the stores after dark? If you can narrow it down, maybe you can find out why it is happening. I think Sandusky is one of the most historic towns around and would hate to see it completely lose its charm because of a few individuals.


Sandusky police have a tip line -- 419-627-5980 -- residents can call and anonymously leave information.

How about the SPD also have an email address for anonymous information?

Many people are too afraid to report criminal activity due to retaliation and retribution.

A small reward may entice some to report criminal activity that result in an arrest.

How many of these criminals are also receiving government assistance?

SR watcher

Good post, Trigger.  The Register's continued harping about "unregistered" firearms only serves to confuse the issue(s).  It leads the public to believe that a gun registration process exists in Sandusky, in Ohio, or throughout the country when it most certainly doesn't.  It posits that having an "unregistered" gun in one's possession is somehow a violation of law.  It is sensationalist journalism at its worst.

I am a law-abiding citizen.  I own guns.  None of them are registered.  And none ever will be, since I don't plan on moving to Illinois, New York, or any such other "totalitarian" state that requires registration.  I use my guns for lawful purposes such as hunting, target shooting, and defense of self and others, and I do not see the need for the government--federal, state, or local--to know how many or what kinds of firearms I possess.   

The Register's attempt to demonstrate a causal connection between some irrelevant nonsense about "unregistered" guns and an increase in gun violence in Sandusky is beyond conclusory.  It's an absurd, irresponsible ploy to encourage responsible citizens to disarm themselves so the criminals can perpetrate even more violence in the City.  Shame on you, Sandusky Register.


I have been waiting since this senseless killing for the anti gun tilt of the Sandusky Register to kick in. The "unregistered gun" phrase is just the beginning. If you purchase a gun from a dealer, you do a 4473 form and undergo a background check. However, when the dealer calls in for the background check he/she tells them the type of firearm, (handgun,long gun, or other), but not specific information such as model or serial number. So, technically no gun is registered, even if it was bought new. Only in the trace of a weapon used in a crime does this info become known. It is held in the gun dealers info until called for in the trace. Casual sales between individuals (gun shows, friends, etc) remains legal. It is illegal for a felon, fugitive from justice, drug dependent, dishonorably discharged from the military, under court restraining order for violence, adjudicated mentally defective, convicted of misdemeanor domestic violence, renounced your citizenship,or illegally in the U.S. from possessing a gun. So take the criminals off the street and leave the huge majority of the law abiding gun owners alone. IT IS NOT THE GUN, IT IS THE CRIMINAL that is the problem in Sandusky and in fact anywhere violence is an issue.

maverick12's picture

@ Trigger from Erie

I agree!
It is not unregistered guns that are the problem...the problem is the criminals!
We don't need gun control...we need criminal control! Get the criminal off the street and keep him off!

It is not illegal to own an unregistered gun in Ohio...but articles like this make it seem that way. Even if it became a law, the criminal won't care. He will simply pay the increased black market value as a result...or steal it!

The article says report the violence. By all means! Don't witness a crime and do nothing...take a stand!

DEEPsix's picture

 "How many acts of GUN VIOLENCE does ISRAEL have in a year?"  On average, Israel only encounters 42 direct results of GUN VIOLENCE... THE REASON IT IS SO LOW IS, EVERY CITIZENS HAS MANDATORY TWO YEAR MILITARY SERVICE UPON GRADUATION FROM HIGH SCHOOL..., and serves in the reserves until age 70.


The terrorist use rockets, and cowardly bombs to kill there, BECAUSE, IF THEY WALKED INTO AN AREA WITH A GUN, IT WOULD BE OPEN SEASON ON THEM FROM A HUNDRED DIRECTIONS!  Law enforcement IS EVERYONES DUTY within a society, so until America realizes what our constitutions says, we're headed down that path to total destruction! The terror attacks aren't our #1 concern anymore, because it has been replaced BY MORALE SUICIDE!

WAKE UP all of you who believe we have gun problems, because the real problem is the liberal attitude towards ignoring our constitutional rights, and the marxists agenda of weak leaders!!!

Erie Country had very low crime rates when it was a republican(CONSERVATIVE) region... NOW, since the twist over to liberal elected officials, failed economy, terrible educational systems, anti-life platforms, the AREA IS GETTING WHAT IT ASKED FOR BY ELECTING SUCH FEEBLE LEADERS. Those quasi-leaders have imbedded their "friends" throughout city/county hall

So..... look at what you have!  A murdered hero police officer, shots fired "almost" nightly, because leaders who only know how to build parks, and waterholes are running "their agenda down the throats of a once great region."

Not until you decide the city needs a PROFESSIONAL FULL TIME MAYOR, WARDS MEN, and employees held to the HIGHEST STANDARD, will you return to a civil community.


The only way to get these criminals to stop terrorizing good people is to MAKE it so they are afraid of the consequences. We have so many repeat offenders because the jail saystem is apparently a joke. They get treated better in jail than living on the streets. So they dont care if they get caught. The stupid laws that are made are so easy on these thugs. If you murder someone you should NEVER EVER be allowed to be free again. I believe in death penalty but not keeping them in prison letting them appeal and waste money for years before carrying it out. We keep these thugs in prison where they get good food, weight rooms, bed to sleep in, showers etc. Also free medical care. So they cant come and go as they please. I've known ppl who were in prison and they say it "isnt that bad" Well that is the PROBLEM!!! Feed them bread and water. Take away there beds make them sleep on the floor. No entertainment. Let them sit and think about what they did. Make it so miserable that they NEVER wanna come back. Until this happens nothing will change. These thugs will continue to hurt ppl and steal and every other crime until the horrible crime and the punishment are equal. Do I sound harsh? Dam right I do. i'm a mom with 3 kids and I'm tired of worrying about them everytime they go to sandusky because of all this violence. Am I against guns? No. We have about 8 of them in our house. All bought and registered and kept in a locked gun cabinet. I'm against thugs with guns needlessly killing innocent people!!! I'm against officials making things way to freaking easy on these criminals. If they shoot someone, shoot them and let then sit and suffer. Bet they wont go out and keep shooting people if they know they will get shot in return. Come on ppl. Stop being so easy on these thugs. They do not wanna live peacefully with the rest of us so get rid of them. one by one they would start disappearing off the streets if the punishment was harsher. A slap on the wrist, a big fine they never intend on paying, and a few months or a year in a place that is better living then most of them are used too is NOT punishment!!!!! If you kill someone you should be killed. if you rape someone you should be killed or at least have your privates cut off so you never do it again! If you steal cut their dam hand off they wont do it again.


Keep in mind the Register is not gun friendly never has been never will be.

Matt Westerhold is the one that had CHL holders names published in the paper and refused to stop publishing them.

This is just another sign of the liberal media pushing there ideals on it's audiance.


Honestly, Register, what IS it with your political biases masquerading as news? Everyone here who took issue with your claims of "unregistered" is absolutely correct. There is NO firearms registration required in the vast majority of states, including Ohio. Perhaps you are using "unregistered" as a synonym for "illegal." If so, that only makes your verbiage all the worse, and your anti-freedom stance all the more obvious.

The majority of posters are also firmly grasping the obvious that you can't seem to find despite the reporters and researchers on staff: Guns aren't the issue. CRIMINALS are the problem. I couldn't agree more with maverick12. We don't need gun control; we need CRIMINAL control.

Register readers, don't let the Register's reports confuse you. SR watcher's words should be heeded by every law-abiding citizen in the community. You are NOT required to register your legally owned guns, and the mere SUGGESTION you surrender any "unregistered" weapons is an affront both to the Bill of Rights and to your safety and well being. "Shame on you, Sandusky Register" indeed!

6079 Smith W

And doesn't Switzerland have the highest gun ownership per capita in the world, yet has a low homicide rate?

Go ahead @#$% elitist bureaucrats, outlaw firearms and every backyard mechanic in the U.S. will soon be busy manufacturing firearms and cartridges.

Videos on how to make zip guns can be found on the web:

 "God created all men, but Sam Colt made them equal"



T. A. Schwanger
Thoughts and prayers go out to the Dunn Family. What a senseless and tragic death of a young man.   The Community and Police Union need to put pressure on City leaders, beginning with the Mayor, to spend some of the $3 million carryover balance on putting two police officers in each vehicle during night shift patrols. This practice was abolished as a budget cut.
maverick12's picture

High price to pay for a "budget cut".

Put the focus on guns though and we won't have to feel the guilt of sorry leadership.


what does sweden have to do with usa?


forgot about randleman getting shot last summer ...... guess that was a black on black ..... he can't get along with anybody!


need to take some big disciplinary actions against criminals carrying, and using, illegal guns (no brainer)!


how many blacks live in sweden ....... and have drug involvement?


Wow that took a little longer than I expected, but knew it was coming down the pipes. The SR demonizing unregistered weapons is misleading, how about demonizing the thug, and the fact the criminals are called criminals for a reason. We have criminals breaking all sorts of laws, its always the criminals fault, after they committ a gun crime, its always the guns fault, the gun has to have an operator. Thats like blaming a vehicle for causing an ovi accident, the car cant drive itself. But here they are, the utopians who feel banning guns will save the world, ignorant of the fact that man has killed man from the dawn of time.Hey how about enforcing laws that are already on the books, how about we actually sentence people like Randleman correctly the first time. But no, we want to take everyones guns away, or make them impossible to have. Its not just on the local scale, the EU and UN have been on a crusade to ban citizens rights to own guns in numerous countries, why do you think that is? The Swiss as mentioned below refuse to roll over and become victims of  "the new dictatorship" as should we. Start punishing these sh%^ bag criminals, stay away from my second amendment right!! Lets look at the facts around the assault weapon ban, it did not do anything, as proven. Many anti-gunners who pushed it, when asked, didnt even know what a heat shield or extended magazine was, all they heard was no guns and jumped on the wagon, now Obama wants a new ban. What about this wild west image they projected in regards to ccw, facts show that did not happen either, but they are good at twisting facts, and misleading the uniformed, just like this garbage article!  Molon Labe


Didn't the Register run an article recently telling residents that the city wants input on how to spend the money they have? Let's all tell them we want MORE POLICE to clean up this town!


This article should be titled SCUMBAGS HAVE A GRIP ON SANDUSKY! I havnt seen a single gun running around attacking anyone. Thugs are the problem not the guns!


I agree with TA Schwanger. The Sandusky Police used to have a very well trained and respected part -time force of almost 30 officers. They consisted of officers with 30 years or more experience, and also retired Captains, Sergeants, and so forth. And all this for $9.00 per hour, with no benefits. Then came along Kim Nuesse. She chose to stop paying these officers and placing them on the $1.00 per year status, in order to save money. Some chose to remain on in order to keep their certification, and some moved on. But the program eventually dissolved. How in the world the City Commission ever saw it fit to loose all the experience, and two man cars over $9.00 per hour is beyond me. I'm not saying this would have prevented Officer Dunn's shooting, but it sure would not hurt. The sight of two officers exiting car instead of one would sure make me think twice.


Moderators have removed this comment because it contained racist or discriminatory remarks. Discussion Guidelines


Looks like Cleveland is bring there trash here. Man, just think I was looking at housing there last summer till my wife said, "I don't think so." Glad I didn't fight her on that.

Erie County Resident

Moderators have removed this comment because it contained profanity and personal attacks. Discussion Guidelines


 Don't worry Sandusky The NAACP is gathering an army of reverands and setting up meetings as we write....problem will be solved let Barb Clark and liberalmomof3 work their majic....lmao!


Sweet! It looks like i made quite an impression on you, Silent Majority! I haven't even commented on this story...yet!

I spoke with Mrs. Clark about the negative perceptions of the NAACP and how the community does not take the NAACP seriously.  I told her that if the NAACP truly stood for the "advancement of colored people" then they need to take a pro-active approach rather than a reactive approach.  Here, let me dumb it down for you...

As a social worker or case manager, I have been referred to as "some white lady" upon arrival at a home to do a scheduled homevisit.  And usually, that reference is paired with a couple of colorful expletives.  Sometimes, I had to perform "my job" through a screen door or window because I was not welcome in the home, even when "my job" was court-ordered. 

Eventually, these families accepted me and my work because we were able to reach a certain level of respect.  However, I was still "that white lady." 

I challenged Mrs. Clark to walk the streets of our community and educate the minority families on the issues at hand.  I offered to walk with her.  I'm willing to do the work, but based on my past LIFE experiences, black leaders (and clergy) are going to have more influence on the black community than a regular citizen like myself.  I will not let that deter me...I'm still willing to reach out to people.  I truly believe that a team is only as strong as the weakest link.  So yes, it does matter to me that EVERYONE receives a fair chance at be a valued, productive member of our community.

So while you choose to sit at your computer and complain about life, some of us are out there trying to do something about it.  I use these articles and all the comments to educate myself on what the people are thinking and believing...that way if and when i should meet you on the street, i will know to reach out to you even more.  All this hate, ignorance, and bigotry is creating another generation of people filled with hate and rage...and cop killers with no reguard for life. 

There is but one race: the human race.  deal with it.

oh, and btw...funny how they chose this photo for their article. 


CitySlicker : I agree at least on overnights they should be 2 man patrols, its worth the money



this will all stop now...I have my porch light on.


Did budget cuts have a play in what happened and is the city even looking at what went wrong so this never happens again?  Will the ICMA study for the police department ever see the light of day after this event?  Will the study prove that we should have had more officers employed?


Just adding to the voices of reason. I agree with many of you.

There is no gun registration in Ohio.

Gun control is not a solution and never has been.

The death penalty needs to be administered after one appeal. If you are found guilty on appeal, you are executed the next day.

Guns don't have a grip on anything. If the wannabe thugs don't have a gun they use a knife. Get the trash off the streets and into a cage where they belong.



Gun Control is Being Able to Hit Your Target!


Moderators have removed this comment because it contained profanity. Discussion Guidelines


Whew - it seems all bloggers here would be members of the NRA.  I don't own one - probably shoot myself by accident if I did but there is one blogger who seems confused about registration in Ohio (unless she slipped in here from out of state).

Latina43464 says Am I against guns? No. We have about 8 of them in our house. All bought and registered and kept in a locked gun cabinet

So if I buy into all of your logic, we should just legalize heroin. Heroin doesn't kill people, it's the people that abuse heroin.

C'mon people. It's time to end this "constitutional right" and "guns don't kill people, people do" bullsh*t.

When the constitution was written there weren't automatic weapons that could take out a crowd full of people in seconds. And I'll even concede to your "guns don't kill people" rhetoric, with one revision..."guns don't kill people, a**holes do". Unfortunately, I'd say that about 75% of the people I meet are a**holes.

Why don't we legalize heroin? Because it harms the people of our society. We try to make it as difficult as possible to purchase. It only makes sense to me that we do the same with guns. Sure, there will be bad elements of society that will always find a way to purchase guns, just like they do heroin, but isn't it our responsibility as a nation to protect the society we live in?

Go ahead, start the bashing!

Just Thinkin

No,  Latina  is right if she has bought guns recently ,It's really a backround check and New Guns are recorded with the person who bought it, So when you sell or get rid of a gun you need to get it in writing who aquired it just to help protect your self. As far as the Register I can't believe they are so closed minded and self centered. We the gun owner's who own guns for sport, protection and to have for a hobby, Are law abiding people. Do not punish us for the  waste of human flesh that are tearing this country apart, That includes White trash,Black thugs,Outlaws of any kind. Not GUN OWNER's as a whole!




With gun control, only THUGS will have control.





Re: Toredown11 says:


Actually, I give you a great deal of credit for looking at this situation with a whole different perspective.  We could apply your theory to more than just heroin.  But, people are strongly set in their very own ideologies about what they think the Constitution means.  There are some people you cannot debate with.


I’ve taken a few constitutional law classes and from what I have experienced – people perceive the Constitution – not based on its verbiage – rather, based on their own value system. It’s quite fascinating really.  It’s much how people perceive the Bible.  


Once their value system is in place, they cannot see a situation (even a law) through a different set of lenses.  The right to bear (bare) arms could mean that anyone can have an arsenal of any firearms they want in their living room…or…wear a tank top (smile).  It all depends on a person’s perspective (smile).


 I appreciate your fresh point of view.



I went back and read this article several times looking for the "unregistered" firearms bits and all I was able to find were phrases like "illegally concealed", "had not been documented", "never listed as stolen", "illegal weapons" and "illegal and unwanted".  Not anywhere in the article did I see the reporter using the phrasing that has so many here upset.  I don't think the intent was to try and con anyone into giving up a firearm by misleading a person to believe that their personal weapon was improperly registered and therefore illegal.  Relax. The SR isn't probably operating a covert mission to disarm the residents of Erie County by publishing this article.   


TA Schwanger and Cityslicker,

RIGHT ON!!!!!!! Being married to a part time police officer I know they make just a little more than a Walmart greeter, so that being said, our police officers do their jobs cause they believe in their community and they want to make it safe for us and our children.  I have complained forever about having 1 police man in a cruiser when they need 2!  After that sad event, which I agree I think if he had a partner it probably would not have went down the way it did.  They have so many graduating from the police academy and guess what? Yeah NO JOBS to be found.  Whats wrong with that picture?

Now,  I think instead of typing we all need to come together and set a time and date to start raising cane and let our (tax payers) voices be heard.  We were and still are a good community it was proven the day of Officer  Andrew Dunn's last ride thru Sandusky.  Let's get this done before it happens again and bring our streets and town back.  Come on Erie County we can do this!!!!!!


T. A. Schwanger
 Responding to: xbucki says

TA Schwanger and Cityslicker,

RIGHT ON!!!!!!! Being married to a part time police officer I know they make just a little more than a Walmart greeter, so that being said, our police officers do their jobs cause they believe in their community and they want to make it safe for us and our children.  I have complained forever about having 1 police man in a cruiser when they need 2!  After that sad event, which I agree I think if he had a partner it probably would not have went down the way it did.  They have so many graduating from the police academy and guess what? Yeah NO JOBS to be found.  Whats wrong with that picture?

Now,  I think instead of typing we all need to come together and set a time and date to start raising cane and let our (tax payers) voices be heard.  We were and still are a good community it was proven the day of Officer  Andrew Dunn's last ride thru Sandusky.  Let's get this done before it happens again and bring our streets and town back.  Come on Erie County we can do this!!!!!!


 Xbucki: Let's begin with Police Officers' family, friends and community members call, email or write City Commissioners with the two officers per vehicle concerns.

Better yet, the next City Commission Meeting is April 11th at 222 Meigs Street beginning at 5:00pm. Let your concerns and opinions be heard.

This is a start as we discuss and implement Take Back the Community ideas.


Re; toredown 11

Are you kidding? What a ridiculous comparison. I do not have a CCW and do not own a gun, but  I absolutely support the right of a law-abiding citizen to own and carry a weapon. Until law enforcement is able to guarantee that all the criminals are off the streets, citizens have a right and responsibility to protect themselves and their property.

BTW-If 75% of the people you meet are a$$holes, you must be quite judgmental, or you just need to meet a better class of people.



Toredown11,I must have missed the part about owning and shooting up smack being a constitutional freedom. How many fully automatics are used in crimes these days? Maybe we should ban vehicles also, ever look at the vehicle fatality rates, clearly cars cause accidents. No matter how safe we build them, we cant compensate for a-hole drivers. I can end obesity by outlawing spoons, forks, and soda pop. Some radicals point out that no muslims had signed The Declaration, The Bill of Rights, or had fought for our freedom from England, so freedom of religion does not apply to them. The facts that Brady pushes are flawed. For every scholar or professor you point out that are non- gun, I can point out the same that are pro-gun. You can let the government take your rights, just roll over, but I will not. You can hide in a locked room with 911 on the phone, I will not. One thing I agree with, is that the large number of a-holes never ceases to amaze me.

NRA 4LIFE                      USMC                     Si vis pacem, para bellum


Ya, I am all for two cops in a car.




The SR went back and edited the article.  The sentence "The gun Randleman allegedly used to shoot Dunn was illegally concealed, police said."

Originally read:

"The gun Randleman allegedly used to shoot Dunn was unregistered and illegally concealed, police said."



Thank you for the clarification. 

While the state of Ohio does not require gun owners to register their weapons, they can register their weapons with local law enforcement if they choose to.  So if the weapon that was used to commit the crime described in the article was not registered so be it, that is the law.  To print that it was an unregistered weapon isn't really wrong either because it wasn't registered.  If you have to choice to register and you choose not to then your weapons are unregistered. 

If every gun owner did have to register their weapons, the police might be able to figure out the chain that led to a felon having a gun in his posession and prevent that crime from occurring again through at least that channel .  I understand that many would feel that to be a huge infringement on their rights, but are you a gun owner because you are concerned about safety and lawfulness or are you a gun owner just because that is a right guaranteed to you? What do you feel are the legitimate down sides to a required registration process?

BW1's picture

Grandmasgirl has come the closest to why this problem exists.  Sandusky has too many people who reject the basic social contract tenets of respecting the rights and property of others and earning what one wants or needs.   There are enough of them that they manage to elect a city government that caters to them with handouts and excuses for their behavior, and that is characterized by a hostile and confiscatory attitude toward the productive, law abiding, contributing members of the community.

BW1's picture

toredown11 says

So if I buy into all of your logic, we should just legalize heroin.

Absolutely. The government has no place telling you what you can put in your own body. Why did we need a constitutional amendment for alcohol prohibition, but drug prohibition was just legislated?  One caveat, though, before we legalize it - first eliminate every government program that makes the taxpayers pay to fix someone's life up after they wreck it with drugs.

C'mon people. It's time to end this "constitutional right" and "guns don't kill people, people do" bullsh*t.

Yeah, and it's time to end this "1st Amendment right" because hate speech hurts peoples' feelings and the founders could never have expected the internet, and it's time to end this 4th/5th Amendment bullsh*t because we all know most suspects are guilty, and the founders could never have envisioned the mafia

toredown, there is no shortage of countries that operate the way you advocate.  Why not go to one and stop trying to ruin what makes this one unique?

Carlin, historically throughout the world, registration has  been the prelude to and the enabling factor in confiscation.   Even the most vehement opponents of 2nd Amendment rights civilian armament have acknowledged that the single biggest obstacle to forced civilian disarmament is not the Bill of Rights or the courts, but rather that the government doesn't know who has a gun and who doesn't, and thus wouldn't know where to look for them.

Erie County Resident




WHO DID I ATTACK???                          NO ONE!



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Toredown11:  See, I believe those were the posts you expected.  It is a great study of human behavior to predict what people will post (especially in a certain geographical area) and then wait for it to come to fruition.  Not one person actually got your point. Not because it wasn’t clear, but because of their value system.  It’s entertaining to read what people “think” the Constitution means.  But, they are Americans, it’s their Constitution too, so they have the right (I suppose) to interpret it in their own way with the intelligence they have.   If we wanted to really tear the Constitution apart – and allow for what we all interpret it as - - we would have pure chaos. 


On a logical note, Benjamin Franklin, George Washington and others wrote the Constitution in a time that they only knew. These were men, not clairvoyants.  After all Philadelphia  isn’t the portal to the future.  How could they know what we would become? They couldn’t.  Many people don’t know that the number one cause of death in the workplace are accidents associated with workers on the highways…but, the number two cause of death in the workplace - - is homicide.  Then, out of all the homicides in the workplace, 80% of them are gun related.  This can be checked on OSHA’s website.  We can just go home, get our gun, come back to work and shoot someone because we are mad.  Does this seem logical?  But, we hear, “I would never do that”….yet, thousands have.


The problem here is…raging lunatics own the guns (people do not identify themselves with a raging lunatic), because doggone it…it’s my Constitutional right.  Well, it’s my Constitutional right to have free speech too, but according to the EEOC I can’t say anything “discriminatory” against another gender, race, someone over 40, (all of the protected classes) or I could be terminated from my job or sued.  I wouldn’t do this based on my belief system anyway, but we are barred from speaking freely about certain groups of people in the workplace.  We needed the law. 


So, while I served my Country for many years, I realize that freedom isn’t free…but, there are also limitations on freedom.  I learned a great deal about freedom (and the lack of) during my many years of military service.  But, we need those limitations to keep our families safe from idiots with road rage who carry a gun, from brainless people who carry a gun but say they’ll never use it.  Statistics prove otherwise.    


Simply put, there has to be some limitations in society to keep help temper the anarchy.


no planb

Pragmatic, whats to interpret? "the right of the people to keep and bear arms, shall not be infringed" a 3rd grader can understand that. I like gilamonsters ref about freedom of religion. It shows lunatics will try and twist the constitution however they like, just like the anti-gunners.Brady and Bloomberg twist the other statistics so bad, I dont have enough to space here to write it all out.Our economy is in the crapper and these guys are fixated with gun control.How many raging lunatics have dui's? clearly the cars fault and the bartenders, right? How many lunatics set arson fires, clearly the matches fault. In the past I worked for two seperate companies, each had a stabbing, ban knifes now? When are judges going to start locking these people up. A gun is like a tool, someone oprates it, ya I know we are all lunatics. You miss the global scale, EU &UN, just like mentioned before want global gun bans, why is that, do you think for peace? come on! There are planty of gun laws, we dont enforce the ones we have, I dont even disagree with background checks.Now we have to regulate air rifles and stunguns, might as well just invite someone to harm you, obvious the government dont want you to be able to defend yourself, I live in the country, know how long it takes a 911 call out here?

"there has to be some limitations in society to keep help temper the anarchy" you mean to temper freedom and create dictatorship.I spent my time in the military too, I will refuse to give up my freedoms, including firearms.


TA Schwanger,

Thank you so very much for all that information.

I will be there to voice my concerns and I hope that alot more of the community will do the same.  Your absolutely right that this is a start and a great start  but I truly believe if we ALL stick together as a community we will and can get this done because we are not quitters nor failures! 

Hope to see you all there


maverick12's picture


**edit: It would have been nice if the Register would have added an editing note when they took out the "unregistered" after learning it was not illegal to own one....

I agree Planb! "Temper freedom" is the end result of what Pragmatic seems to promote. Why can't these individuals see that the gun laws we have only affect the law abiding? Since they are apparently failing, why continue to add more to the books?
The absurdity of banning knives, automobiles, baseball bats, hammers, wooden clubs applies to guns as well. Ban the criminals!!! Lock them away or take them out permanently.

Thank you Pragmatic for your service but your lessons on freedom miss the mark. No law of the land will stop the lunatics from senseless killing. Monsters do not obey laws. Death would stop them, but we've become to sensitive for that it seems.

I'm sick of laws that affect the law abiding while the criminal suffers no consequences. I will refuse to give up my right to bear arms as well and when the day comes that I can no longer do so: I will have been made the outlaw.

Teach your children to respect all things living. Teach them to love and be loved. Teach them what life and death is all about.

It is not our tools that need banned....

Just Thinkin

As a Gun owner, I have no intention of shooting any one, If it's to save a life of a loved one YES, a car, the contents of the house ?  NO ! Insurance is for that MAYBE ? I will continue to hunt, target shoot and teach my Grand children that GUNS are GOOD and life has meaning. And that your choices affect everyone .My kids all hunt  my Daughter's are better shots than the  old man ! they harvest [ KILL] Thier intended targets, Yes and feel remorse but then again they understand life is life and to waste it is a sin. So while we consume  what we have harvested we always give thanks to GOD above for such a fine and healthy meal, We also harvest our own veggies in season, I have always said if you feel no remorse from killing then you have a problem.Yes AMERICA is split,We have those who choose to live as free people and those who choose to let the Goverment , UN and EU tell us what we need to believe, We need to Stay FREE and tell the UN / EU and gun hater's to go to Well GO ! I will fight for my Freedom  at the voting booth and am voting against this so call PRESIDENT, It hurts me as I WAS  a DEMOCRAP till a couple years ago. He is one of the biggest threats to our FREEDOM we have !


Double post, sorry


Pragmatic, it sickens me, as a military retiree, that after serving "years" in military service that you obviously take for granted the true intention of our Constitution.  I am appalled that you actually believe that the Constitution was meant to be reinterpreted as times change.  Our founding fathers ABSOLUTELY did not believe this.  I think you need to go back and do some research on exactly what our founding fathers felt and what they intended when they wrote the Constitution of the United States and The Bill of Rights.  I can assure you there was no intention to reinterpret it every few years according to the whims of society.  They did however include a way that the Constitution could be amended if the citizens so chose.  They made this intentionally difficult so that dictators and a tyranical government could not reinterpret or change things and force its will on the people without to citizens approval.  For 21 years I meant it when I said that I would support and defend the Constitution of the United States against ALL enemies foreign and DOMESTIC.  That includes people like you that want to twist its meaning to fit your misguided agenda.  I will continue to live up to the oath, even in retirement.


Alan Dershowitz: "Foolish liberals who are trying to read the Second Amendment out of the Constitution by claiming it's not an individual right or that it's too much of a public safety hazard, don't see the danger in the big picture. They're courting disaster by encouraging others to use the same means to eliminate portions of the Constitution they don't like."


Senator Orrin Hatch: "If gun laws in fact worked, the sponsors of this type of legislation should have no difficulty drawing upon long lists of examples of crime rates reduced by such legislation. That they cannot do so after a century and a half of trying--that they must sweep under the rug the southern attempts at gun control in the 1870-1910 period, the northeastern attempts in the 1920-1939 period, the attempts at both Federal and State levels in 1965-1976--establishes the repeated, complete and inevitable failure of gun laws to control serious crime." But some gun laws did work:


Adolf Hitler: "The most foolish mistake we could possibly make would be to allow the subject races to possess arms. History shows that all conquerors who have allowed their subject races to carry arms have prepared their own downfall by so doing.