Preserving the defects

Family wants state to hold gun for review of its design flaw
Register
Dec 2, 2013

Questions remain for the family of Jacob Limberios 12 days after Ohio Attorney General Mike DeWine announced the findings of his four-month investigation into the 19-year-old's death in March 2012.

“The gaps in the logic as to what happened to Jake endorsed in the Attorney General’s statement are indeed wide by any objective analysis,” according to a statement by Mike and Shannon Limberios at the Justice for Jake & Ella Facebook page.

The AG's office determined Jake shot himself accidentally and a defect in the weapon he was holding — a hair trigger — likely contributed to that accident. 

Watch DeWine's Nov. 20 news conference

The family asked for the assistance of the National Rifle Association and other groups with gun experts to review the determination the gun that killed Jake was defective. They asked DeWine to keep the weapon secure, for further testing.

Sheriff Kyle Overmyer “previously indicated an intention to destroy the gun,” according to the statement. “We are simply asking the Attorney General to retain (it), in its current condition so that all interested parties, including the gun manufacturer and distributor can develop a joint plan for its inspection and testing.”

DeWine referred to a “design defect” in the gun manufacture three times during an hour-long news conference Nov. 20 at the Sandusky County courthouse. His spokesman, Dan Tierney, later appeared to back away from that, telling the Fremont News Messenger the problem was “limited to Jake's gun.”

The family did not suggest the gun is not defective but said the finding still fails to adequately explain the bullet's trajectory and the lack of fracturing in the skull a close-range shot would have caused.

“A contact wound by a .357 Magnum most likely would have torn away a significant portion of Jake’s skull.”

The proximity of the gun near his legs in photographs of Jake's body taken at the scene also aren't explained.

“The completely unnatural position the Attorney General has Jake holding the gun, and the force upon discharge, the gun itself would have flown across the room as Jake had no ability to counteract the tremendous recoil of the weapon,” according to the family's statement. “In other words, the gun would not have ended up anywhere near Jake’s body.”

The AG's office has told the family it was required by law to return the weapon to the reporting agency — Sandusky County sheriff's office — which investigated the incident beginning the night it occurred.

Sheriff Overmyer told the family previously the gun would be destroyed when the investigation was finished but that shouldn't happen, according to the family and its supporters.

“The first and most important next step (is to) fully explore the dangerous characteristics of Jake’s gun,” the Facebook post at Justice for Jake & Ella states. “We intend to aggressively get the questions regarding whether Jake’s gun was defective, if so, how, and whether that defect poses a risk to others, answered in an unbiased way.

“We ask the Attorney General to retain the gun in his custody so that a complete and objective investigation into that issue can be completed. We hope that investigation will include the gun manufacturer and distributor. We also will be asking for all people and groups interested in gun safety, whether pro- or anti-gun, to lend any assistance they can to this effort.”

The Facebook post specifically asks the National Rifle Association to offer “its experts in the area of gun design, manufacturer and safety.”

Watch/read related articles and news video

No budge on ruling

Sandusky County coroner John Wukie hasn't changed the death certificate he signed in March 2012, ruling Jacob Limberios' death an accidental suicide.

Wukie's decisions the night Limberios was killed and his subsequent refusal to revisit the cause he wrote on the death certificate triggered investigations that remain unresolved more than 20 months later.

Although the Ohio Attorney General's office determined Jake's death was accidental, Wukie told a local newspaper a suicide can be an accident.

“How long does this family have to wait,” family attorney Dan McGookey asked.

A statement at the Justice for Jake & Ella page went further. 

“We call on him to immediately change his position, and his ruling on Jake’s death certificate to reflect such fact. Our family has suffered long enough from his untenable position.

“We further intend to investigate why a significant amount of evidence was destroyed by the investigating authorities in the hours following Jake’s death, and why virtually every standard protocol for death scene investigation was ignored. We feel with the answers to these questions will come the answer as to what happened to Jake.”

 

Comments

Ithink

Go above the AG's head. Obviously he is going to err on the side of law enforcement. In the meantime, those 3 kids will slip up pretty soon- right, Britt and Willyum? BTW, who spells their name like that? Tragic.

Factitious

Guns are often modified from factory condition by gunsmiths for various reasons, including to change their operating characteristics or to repair design or manufacturing imperfections. But modifying a product very strongly tends to protect a manufacturer from product liability.

starryeyes83

There is no greater flaw ,than a person, who plays carelessly with a gun (loaded or not) AND holds it to their head.

Especially when said person is on medication from a psychologist.

deertracker

I just don't believe it went down that way.

Informed

Psychologists do not prescribe medication. The fact that people don't know that is disturbing.

starryeyes83

You're right , Informed , I stand corrected - it was his psychiatrist ( who can prescribe meds).

Isn't it amazing those factors, were never printed (as far as I know) until the GJ findings?

Informed

And what does that have to do with the fact that the testimony was that this gun can fire 30% of the time without pulling the trigger? That is a problem that needs to be fixed no matter who is or isn't on medication.
Do you have any idea how many people's lives have been saved by antidepressant medication?

starryeyes83

Do you understand that the young man was handling the gun in an unsafe manner, and had a habit of doing so? Which pretty much INFLATES that 30% .... And more than likely drinking.

Do you understand that mixing those meds with booze is unwise?

When people do that, tell me, just "how" do you fix it?

Those facts , right there, makes all the difference.

It was preventable all the way around ... all he had to do was leave the gun at home or in his vehicle. Or not "obtain" one at all.

Enough said.

I'm tired of the BS conspiracy theories and it was "everybody elses' fault" card.

sandtown born a...

Uninformed to sat the least

indolent indiff...

easy to see the plan here. their lawyer is a murray best friend so he is running this as far as he can so he can turn it over to the Murray's for a suit against the gun manufacturer.

mikesee

WTF. When will this stop?

Food For Thought

Alright, this is really starting to tick me off, it is time to let this go. The case was reviewed by the Attorney General of Ohio and presented to a grand jury, a grand jury that had more than enough opportunity to be swayed by this ridiculous campaign. The attorney general used STATE MONEY to hire TWO experts, TOP tier experts to review the case (FYI I am sure that they cost us at least $15,000 per opinion), and reinvestigate this case. They ALL INDEPENDENTLY came to the same conclusion. They found that the gun was defective, thus explaining why the gun "just went off". The gunshot wound sizes were explained by the guy that wrote the book about GSW's.

And why is no one mentioning that if this kid was soo responsible around firearms, WHY DID HE LEAVE A LIVE ROUND IN THE CHAMBER? It really doesn't pass the smell test. He knew there was going to be drinking after (not sure I believe they weren't drinking beforehand) "messing around with the firearm", why did he not do the responsible thing and lock it in his truck? Then no one would have been able to handle it in a compromised state. These are basic gun safety rules people, it isn't something that he would have never heard. They do not want to admit that their son made a careless error when it comes to firearms, and unfortunately one careless action is all it takes with firearms to end a life. Would this family be this involved if their son's gun killed another kid and not their son; or would they be calling for it to end and their son's life to get back to normal? I am pretty sure that we know the answer.

Go ahead attack me, make yourselves feel better, but that won't change the facts or outcomes. The community needs to help the family grieve and stop fanning the flames of these ridiculous conspiracies. Let me also say that I do not fault the Register or Mr Westerhold for following this story, it is legitimate news in the community. My frustration is with the irresponsibility of those of you who keep pushing the family on further in this ordeal. How many thousands of dollars have been used, public and private monies, to prove what the Sandusky County Deputies thought the night of? That it was a tragic accident.

starryeyes83

When the family finally gets the insurance money.

donutshopguy

I agree, will this ever stop.

I understand the Limberios family wants someone else to be responsible for their son's death. It's hard to grasp that your son would make some terrible mistakes. But, this is old news and the general public could care less at this time.

Life moves forward no matter how hard you try to hold it back.

A Young Adult's...

It needs to go away. The answers to how this happened are now evident and there has yet to be an apology to the three witnesses who were persecuted and slandered repeatedly throughout the process.

It is a horrible accident but it seems obvious that Jake was the one who ACCIDENTALLY pulled the trigger.

Ctwhalers

Once again some of you have it wrong again. The family even has asked the manufacture for help in this to. They want to make sure if the gun was faulty it will not happen to another family. They never said anything about going after them. There are still lots of questions the family has. I would do the same thing if I was them.

Ctwhalers

Just cause they changed there story again and say now he was scratching his head does not prove he shot himself. If you know anything about this gun the you know he would have more damage to his head if he shot himself

BabyMomma

I thought the exact same thing though when the AG said he was scratching his head, I thought......a .357 touching his head would have taken half his head right off. Or at least a baseball size entry wound.

dorothy gale

If the gun is inspected and found to be NOT faulty, will that raise more questions? And why does Sandusky County LE seem Hell-bent on destroying the gun? Other important evidence was destroyed, so why not the gun as well, I guess. This case still stinks, justice has not been served, and if it were MY son I'd never stop until I got the truth.

Commenter

The gun was inspected wasn't it?

Licorice Schtick

Please clarify the question, which see to suggest that it should have been. Inspected for what? By whom? Thanks.

Jmschmidt812

I'm not sure where you got that SCSO is hell bent on destroying the gun. It is the norm that after an investigation the weapon is destroyed. Now I may be mistaken, but I think the parents can ask for the SCSO to return it to them. It's also not the responsibility of the AG to keep the gun. They are doing what they are required by law to do, and that's to return it to the SCSO. Maybe the parents can look at getting it back and sending it off to get tested by an independent expert.

donutshopguy

This saga will stop when the lawyers stop making money off it.

Licorice Schtick

The list of things that could have prevented this saga in the first place is a lot longer.

Ctwhalers

If it happened to your kid or one of your family what would you do. specially when you read online and talk to gunsmith saying that it could not of happened that way.

starryeyes83

.

Centauri

Was the handgun dropped with the hammer making contact with the floor?

Make sure that nobody destroys more evidence.

Ctwhalers

Yes ag says gun was inspected but what thay say happened does not jive with gunsmiths and avid gun owners even some gun manufacters. So they are asking the family to get it back and have it rechecked. If sandusky county got gun we all know they would want to destroy the gun right away cause if it was retested some people might be in trouble. Just my theory.

sandtown born a...

Sandusky county will continue to destroy any usable evidence that shows how bad the kindergarten investigators did there job. Dewine said we can just learn from our mistakes and move on, I guess this attitude is acceptable if it's not your sons death. Any Death not being investigated properly is unacceptable they should all be fired and learn from that mistake while unemployed. If I screwed up that bad I would be unemployed and would know why. Let's make sure the elected officials feel it at election time.

Centauri

"Dewine said we can just learn from our mistakes and move on"

But the same "mistakes" have been happening for centuries. Nobody in OHIO governments and courts want to learn. Same O' Same-O' is just fine. Why fix what is not broken? The Ohio powers that be like proven past practices. Practice makes perfect for cover-ups.

"

Ctwhalers

some of you on here make me sick. Just cuz the grand jury rules it the way they did that is only because they did not have a lot of evidence that was destroyed by your so called Sandusky county Sheriff Department plus I am sure is a lot of things that weren't aloud into evidence that would have given them more Iinformation to go on. some of you make sandusky County Sheriff Department out to be this great department but I keep reading more more stories from other cases they done wrong so how can you sit there and say they are so great and stick up for them.instead you a part of the problem that is going on in this world not helping get rid of the corrupt.your bash justice for Jake and ella crew plus the family for trying to find more information on what really happened. they want to get the gun back to be tested to see what actually happened to that gun the AG's office says it failed 30% if the time. if there was a defect that the company does not know about they want them know so they can have it corrected so no other family has to go to the same thing. I hope this never happened to your family.you come on here and say the family wants insurance money that has nothing to do with it you say they want to go after the gun manufacturer you're wrong about that. if you're Sandusky county Sheriff Department would have done their job right the first time family would not be going through all of this.sometimes I wonder if you guys have compassion or are you just as cruel cold hearted all the time.I think I need to stay out of ohio especially Sandusky County where there is wrong doing going on. plus I might have to teach them thing or two on how to do their job as officers and detectives.I've been around enough officers and detectives to know how the job was supposed to be done.

Jmschmidt812

You want to say the family wouldn't be going thru this IF the SCSO did their job right? Well let's take it a little bit farther. The family would've been sparred an investigation had this young man left the gun at home. He was legally allowed to own it. He was not however legally allowed to buy the ammunition for it, nor was he allowed to transport the weapon. So the blame isn't solely on the SCSO for the way they handled the investigation. There wouldn't have been a need for one had the gun just been left at home.

starryeyes83

Personally, I don't live in Sandusky County, and don't know any parties involved. Therefore, I don't care.

The compassion fatigue is way up there with the new conspiracy theories.

Keep spinning it. Most of us are no longer impressed. And I hope that some of the media outlets ( SR included ) and the kid's family are sued by those three people they tried nailing to the cross.

Done here.

Ctwhalers

I hear the Ag wants to keep the gun now. Wonder why? Maybe now they realize there is something wrong now.