Who shot Jacob Limberios?

Family waits for news from Ohio attorney general
Register
Jul 27, 2013

The Ohio Attorney General's Office has had little to say in the nearly two months it's been since the criminal investigation of the killing of Jacob Limberios was stripped away from local officials and handed over to the AG.

The three witnesses inside the home the night he was killed have not been interviewed by AG investigators. 

Mike and Shannon Limberios, Jacob's parents, were interviewed.  

"It's been more than 520 days — of waiting, waiting, and waiting — for Mike and Shannon," said Dan McGookey, a Sandusky attorney who represents the Limberios family. "Every day it's difficult and every weekend is like three months spent hoping the phone will ring on Monday and someone, somewhere, will settle this question."

And the most important question — who shot Jacob Limberios — never gets answered, he said.

"I'm not being critical of the attorney general's office. I'm not telling them how to conduct this investigation," McGookey said. "But the physical evidence that does exist is the best evidence there is. Look at the autopsy reports, look at the tissue samples and make a determination about that. Did he shoot himself, or is that impossible as Dr. Wecht has said?"

"Stabbed, beaten, burned & zapped," a four-part special report in the Register, starts Wednesday, details the death investigations that other families endured when their loved-ones were killed.

Click here for the ePaper, for home delivery or buy the Register daily at a newsstand near you. 

Wecht, a well-known forensic pathologist and attorney based in Pittsburgh, ruled Jacob's death a homicide after conducting an autopsy in September 2012. There was no stippling, or burn, where the bullet entered Jacob's skull. The absence of stippling, which gets imprinted like a tattoo, indicates the gun was not fired from close range, Wecht said, making it impossible for Jacob to have been holding the weapon when he was killed. 

But a report of an autopsy conducted months later by Lucas County deputy coroner Cynthia Beisser tells a different story. Biesser, among other things, determined the bullet entered the right side of Jacob's head, not the left, as every other witness, emergency responder, deputies and others who saw the body have said. She also stated her findings were "not inconsistent" with Sandusky County coroner John Wukie's ruling that Jacob committed suicide but it might have been accidental. 

Wukie never went to the home and made the accidental suicide ruling just hours after Jacob was killed after talking by phone with a sheriff's deputy.  

Wukie and Beisser never provided the family any information or evidence that Jake committed suicide. No known information about what evidence led Wukie to rule it a suicide has been released by county or state officials, nor has an explanation been provided as to how the intentional act of killing oneself also can, at the same time, be an accidental, unintentional act. 

Evidence from the crime scene was destroyed while sheriff's deputies were still inside the home shortly after Jacob was killed, and other physical evidence was not collected. Sheriff Kyle Overmyer, chief deputy Bruce Hirt and sheriff's captain Mike Meggitt, all were at the home in the hours after Jacob was killed. 

Other emergency responders also were inside the home, in addition to the three witnesses, and it's not clear who destroyed the evidence. 

Like Wecht, Biesser also didn't see any stippling at either the entrance or exit wounds, regardless of which trajectory is correct. 

"Her report is inconsistent with the facts," McGookey said. "Her conclusion is inconsistent with her own findings." 

The Limberioses are not the first family to question Beisser's conclusions in an autopsy report from the Lucas County coroner's office. 

"Stabbed, beaten, burned & zapped," a four-part special report in the Register, starts Wednesday, and details the death investigations that other families endured when their loved-ones were killed.

Comments

Gardenman

I am all for the Attorney General taking their time to "get it right this time." We know that Sandusky County was far less than professional in their work so lets give the Attorney General time to do the job completely and fully and professionally. After it's done then let the chips fall where they may.

Just glad all this is now being done by the State of Ohio.

Clark W. Griswald

I bet it was Jacob Limberios...

brassman

Yep

starryeyes83

I think so, too.

EdO's

So glad the Sandusky Register is covering this tragedy. Glad it is is the hands of the Attorney General. Also think that time is of the essence and that the Attorney General's Office needs to give this matter the attention we the public know it demands. Not only does a grieving family need answers; the taxpaying citizens need answers regarding malfeasance, wrongdoing and possible corruption of elected officials. It's time.

Darkhorse

This case is so messed up that it will take months for the Attorney General to start to piece it all together. People need to be patient. It will be worth it in the end when people start to be held accountable.

registerer

I wonder why the SR isn't badgering and bullying the AG's office like it did Dean Henry and SC officials? Why is that SR?

Stop It

Because Emil said basically, screw this SR. I rather be on a boat close to my wife.

Matt Westerhold

Thanks registerer. Sandusky County investigated this for 14 months. It's not badgering and bullying to  continue to ask for documentation and answers to legitimate questions from the family and from the Register.

That's especially true given the destruction of evidence that occurred, the decision to do a second exhumation and autopsy, the obvious conflicts of interest that existed and the inane death ruling the county still stands by, accidental suicide, among other things. 

The AG's office picked this up long after the evidence was destroyed during the local investigations. It seems reasonable to expect there would be some resolution soon from the AG's office to disparities in the two autopsies, but the balance of the investigation would seem a bit more challenging and require more time to piece together.

The AG's office has responded in a professional way to inquiries, unlike what occurred in the previous investigations. The Register will continue to report on this story and follow up with the AG's office as appropriate.  

registerer

So in your investigative work the SR has determined this to be a murder and not an accidental death? Your schooling is what? I do question the terminology "accidental suicide". However, I believe that when it all shakes out the family and cult following will be disappointed when the ruling is accidental and no charges will be filed.

Stop It

No one has called it murder, registerer. It has been suggested as homicide. Two different things.

registerer

Ok stop it let me substitute the word homicide for murder. The basic premise remains the same...it was accidental.

Stop It

I trust that it was accidental. It's just that the family wants it to be written in such a manner.

Slimberios

I am Jacob's mother. I have never posted before, but I need to make one thing clear. I have NO doubt that Jacobs death was an accident, nor do I wish for charges to be filed against ANYONE. His death was an accident and that is what it should have been ruled. PERIOD.

mamaC

Anyone who has followed this case Shannon should know you haven't asked for anything but the truth to what happened. Too many experts ( not paid for BTW) have stated Jake did not kill himself..It is what has transpired into the last almost 17 months that make it sickening. The Lies and making your family suffer is what is horrible. That in itself is a crime. I feel the AG office will get to the bottom of this. It is just gonna take time and Patience. I know its been a long road but, Justice will come in God's time. Bless you and the family in this time. <3

so.....

Oh shannon please stay off here. Nothing positive will come from it. A lot of these people will never empathize with you and your family.

dontcare

Is it that surprising the autopsy the family paid for came back with the results the family wanted? This case appears to have been shopped around to get the answers the family wants. I have nothing but compassion for the family, however the Register, paid attorney and M.E. are not doing the family any favors and the Register , under the guise of a noble cause is doing the biggest disservice of all.

Slimberios

We DID NOT pay for the results we wanted! We told Dr. Wecht we wanted the TRUTH. Which is all we have ever wanted. I certainly hope that your family NEVER experiences something this tragic and completely heartbreaking. Unless anyone of you have EVER been in my shoes, you have NO IDEA what you would do. To insinuate that we have shopped around for our results is insulting to me. My son is gone, he's not coming back. The blame was placed on him for his death. If I truly believed for one minute that he was capable of committing suicide, this battle would not be happening. His death was an accident.......that's ALL I'm fighting for.

brassman

Yes, that's exactly what they did. Like he would really come back with anything bad against the kid when his family was paying?

Gardenman

I think to date that Attorney General has not screwed up as did the others. If for no other reason the Attorney General is not the arrogant, cocky attitude that Dean Henry displayed consistently. Thankfully, he is gone and lest not forget he was FIRED !!

Centauri

Unfortunately, the key evidence was not collected at the scene of Jacob's death. Incompetence is the word to best describe the Sandusky County, Ohio coroner and police investigation. I feel that the Ohio Attorney General will probably rule the death an accident or undetermined based on the lack of evidence that was not collected at the scene of the death.

I have read of many murders that were wrongly ruled suicides. Some murders were ruled natural deaths. There are ways to cover up murders so that they appear to be natural deaths.

In many of the murders that were ruled suicides, the hands and/or feet of the victims were tied. These victims were found to be hung or drowned and some had gunshot wounds yet their deaths were ruled suicides. What were the medical examiners thinking?

""Stabbed, beaten, burned & zapped," a four-part special report in the Register, starts Wednesday, and details the death investigations that other families endured when their loved-ones were killed."

That four-part special report sounds like an interesting article to read.

Here is one murder that was ruled as a suicide. I wonder how many gullible people believed that "suicide" ruling as the cause of death.

http://www.fox23.com/news/local/...
"Police said the man was found with his hands and feet bound and he had been decapitated."

http://www.krmg.com/news/news/lo...
"His hands and feet were tied and the body had been decapitated."

dontcare

Evidence destroyed???? Evidence of what? If this was considered a murder than I would agree, however it has been ruled a suicide, not once, but twice. Does the first one to 5 win?

Detrain

It was ruled suicide before witnesses got to the police station. They were told to change clothes that had blood on them they were thrown away. Shoes had blood on them. If you look closely at evidence bag look at the date put in bag and date sealed. That is wrong that would be considered contamination of evidence. Anybody knows that once you put evidence in a bag it should be sealed and that same date put in and sealed should be on it. It was awhile before bags where sealed.

Gardenman

this whole thing was messed up from the start. When the Sandusky County corner comes up for election I hope we all remember and that another is running against him. We need a new corner this one is not qualified for the job.

HealBySteel

It is difficult to take you seriously when you can't even spell "coroner"

Perkins2060

How about a period at the end of your sentence Ms. Perfect.

HealBySteel

How about a question mark at the end of your sentence?

Also, you should have placed a comma before Ms. Perfect.

Perkins2060

Ms. Perfect strikes again.

sugar

This is NOT someones thesis, get over the grammar crap.

HealBySteel

Perkins made it about grammar.

My initial comment was that one loses all credibility in saying that the coroner is not qualified for his job, if one can't even spell coroner.

Perkins2060

Nice try Ms. Perfect.

HealBySteel

Get it right, it is Mr.

Perkins2060

Nah, Ms. fits you perfect.

HealBySteel

See you tomorrow!

donutshopguy

If the state Attorney General finds this horrible situation a suicide who will the family turn to? Maybe US Attorney General Eric Holder will step in to save the day? Naw, he's to involved in the Trayvon murder case to take on this case.

eightballcuet1

I don't believe this was a suicide or a murder. I believe this was an accidental shooting. If the Sandusky County coroner had taken the time to investigate the incident like he should have, this is the conclusion that would have been made at the time that Jake died.

donutshopguy

eight,

I must be a little thick in the skull. What advantage is their to the ruling of accidental shooting rather than suicide ? Is their an insurance policy that is in question ? Is this about the young man's reputation?

so.....

There isn't an insurance policy. This is about the wording on the death certificate and the fact they didn't do a proper investigation from minute one. I know I would feel the same way. If it is about his reputation so what? I wouldn't want people to think my son killed himself if he didn't. Especially if they're calling it "accidental suicide". How is that even possible? ??!! I would fight the fight too

Detrain

Donutshopguy yes you must be thick in the scull. If it was your son and you know he did not commit suicide would you want them to rule it suicide. There is a little girl growing up thinking her daddy commited suicide and that is wrong. yes it was accidental but where is the shot come from is the question.read all the evidence on this and justice for Jake & ella on facebook. Family is not hiding anything.

dontcare

It would be difficult to determine if the shot was intentional or accidental. Motive absent statements before the shooting can only be revealed by the victim.

Simple Enough II

I have to give the folks of the "Justice for Jake" a nod for their persistence, but what happens if the findings are the same? Does the so called "sloppy" investigation that called it get an apology?

registerer

Like this comment.

EdO's

What happens if, as many suspect, the findings aren't the "same"? The AGO has a very delicate situation on their hands. Whitewashing this isn't going to sit well with many folks, and rightfully so. Let's see what Mike DeWine is made of.

seriously 1137

If the AG rules this anything but an accidental suicide would be justice in my opinion. I personally don't believe this was an accident (on Jake's part) However ruled an accidental death or homicide at least his daughter will not grow up with suicide as cause of death. As far as even suggesting this family and their supporters apologize for seeking justice for their son you've got to be kidding me!!! This WAS a SLOPPY investigation from the start! Destroying evidence, not even taking the bullet out of ceiling? Taking the witnesses' word for it. ..a shootinh involving young people when one ended up dead and not even getting out of bed to examine scene/body. ..talking to witnesses of record?????? This was handled soooo poorly you can't even call this an investigation!!!!!! Apolgogize?! Absoluetly not...Officers need formally reprimanded for shotty work at min. Not to mention the huge obvious conflict of interests being allowed to continue for so long. What world do you live in? Would this be acceptable to you if this was your family member?

gene44870

The truth be told , this case has not been handle the way it should have from the start , and to think that the AGs office can make any sense out of this after all the time that has gone by , and the evidence that was either not abtained from the start or was destroyed or missplaced or destroyed .
Somehow in my own mind seem to think that the AGs office is going to come back with a ruling as undetermined .
The way this case was handled from the start tells me that there was a cover-up all the way .And I doubt if the family will ever get any real answers
Its a shame that this happened , but the fact be known that the way it was handled I am doubt full that if charges were placed against anyone , they would even get close to a conviction . the only thing that maybe done is that the family can known that there Son was killed and not as has been told .But then the sad thing about it that famliy will never see justice cause so much coverage from the sandusky register and the way the case was handled would lead to reasonable doubt .Not to mention you would never be bale to seat a jury that dont know anything about this case or have an opionion as to guilt or inccents . which is what is needed to have a fair trial if it comes to that stage in the investigation
This only my opionon

HealBySteel

Why would there have been a cover up from the start?

Simple Enough II: Gene44870 answers your question about what the conspiracy theorists will claim if the AG Report doesn't go along with their beliefs.

gene44870

One question you have to ask yourselves. Have you ever heard of a coronerever making a ruling as to cause of death without exaiming the manner as to which the body was found not to metion why would you collect evidence at the scene and then throw the evidence away when you return the shariffs office which has been stated in the coverage from the register .
I am not a lawyer or a police officer , I am just someone watching this case carefully from the outside in and without tunnel vision

HealBySteel

I have, it happens on a regular basis. Based on the reports of the investigating officers, the coroner makes the ruling.

Also, just because the paper printed something, it doesn't mean it is the truth.

The only thing that may change in the AG report is the wording of his death from suicide to accidental.

Detrain

Gene you would be surprised that there are quite a few people who do not know the story.

gene44870

Who knows ? thats the question . I mean you cant help but think that there was a cover-up cause if there wasnt they would have been forth coming in the investigation from the start

HealBySteel

How do you know they haven't been forthcoming? The paper only prints what it wants and not all the evidence of an investigation is ever totally released to the public. For a conspiracy/cover up, one would need to receive some sort of benefit to participate. What would be the benefit to the Sandusky County Coroner and multitude of Sandusky County Sheriff's officials to participate?

Commenter

You bring up a good point about the paper only printing what it wants. Like why was there never any follow up to the phone hacking incident? Was anyone charged?

Detrain

go to justice for Jake and Ella on Facebook with all the evidence is there family has nothing to hide register only put in the information that was given to them by the family or the attorney.

registerer

gene, I do not believe there was a cover-up but rather shoddy investigative work. However, that does not change my mind that this young man accidentally shot himself.

so.....

I believe the cover up only started when the investigation was challenged. Its called " covering your a**" . Even if he did shoot himself, which I don't believe, unfortunately the shoddy work makes it almost impossible to investigate. Especially how many months later. Its just a shame all the way around.

SmithMan1's picture
SmithMan1

sorry if this is harsh. not meant to offend anyone at all. but Jacob is dead let the boy rest in peace please! I understand the fact that the family doesn't want to accept the fact he may have shot himself at a party when they were all doing things they shouldn't have been doing let alone have a loaded gun out in the first place. I have to say this I am a gun owner I have kids and I strongly believe in the 2nd but with that said it was Jacobs gun Jacobs house and Jacobs party correct... so with that no matter accidental or not it was his responsibility not to have the loaded gun out in the mix in the first place.

looking around

where is the like button for SmithMans comment!

Commenter

It wasn't Jacob's house.

SmithMan1's picture
SmithMan1

Ok. so that makes my point even more valid.

so.....

Wasn't his house or, his party . There wasnt a party.Not even his friends. He was there because the one boy was interested in the gun and jake was showing him.

JudgeMeNot

Some people comment without even knowing the facts.

Detrain

it was not Jakes house or his party he brought a gun over because one of then wanted to buy the gun.

gene44870

What would be the benefit to the Sandusky County Coroner and multitude of Sandusky County Sheriff's officials to participate
Who knows why people do what they do , Could it be that the Sandusky County Coroner could be in fear of losing his job due to him not performing his duties as required by the Ohio Revised Code . What are the rules that he or she are required to follow when making ruling in such case as this ?

HealBySteel

He definitely isn't in fear of losing his job. He followed the rules. You can look up the rules in the Ohio Revised Code.

Sorry, can't buy the conspiracy theory. No reason for the Sheriff's Deputies to cover for the coroner. Also, no benefit to any of them to rule it suicide, accidental, homicide.

tk

Matt Westerhold @ Sandusky Register, Thank you for keeping us updated on this case. Thank you for asking questions that needed to be asked. Hopefully the family will get the answers they are seeking and will be able to find peace.

gene44870

no reason that we know of , but you never can tell , when it comes to things like this , the only thing I am saying is there are a lot of answers to a lot of questions that should be and need to to adress that are not being addressed.And the only thing that people can think is cover up one way or another

skydog44870

I miss Emil.

Centauri

http://codes.ohio.gov/orc/313
Chapter 313: CORONER

http://www.osca.net/ohio_coroner...
Ohio State Coroners Association

http://www.legislature.state.oh....
"To amend section 313.131 and to enact section 313.124 of the Revised Code to require a coroner, deputy coroner, or pathologist to administer a blood test for alcohol or drugs when a person has died by suicide or in an unusual manner and the test is requested and paid for by a family member."

http://www.ncfs.org/death_invest...

itypedformiles

Everybody be cool.

doratheexplorer

Be excellent to each other

mamaC

Just a reminder please check out our new Facebook Page Justice for JAKE & Ella and on twitter @JakeLimberios. Stay informed on how to support this family. Our page matches our yard signs now! Thank you for your continual support. Justice for Jake & Ella.

mamaC

Just a reminder please check out our new Facebook Page Justice for JAKE & Ella and on twitter @JakeLimberios. Stay informed on how to support this family. Our page matches our yard signs now! Thank you for your continual support. Justice for Jake & Ella.

Kayleigh.Bowers

centauri- if we payed for these tests to be done they would have said we bought and paid for these results. All we are looking for is the truth.

Centauri

I am also searching for the truth. The links that I posted were meant to gain knowledge and not deflect from the truth.

R U Serious

If the sister would come clean or the other two this would have been over a looooong time ago! If they were all inocent and the guy did shoot himself they would have been sreaming that from the begining.....but they didn't! Why would you talk about Lawyering up if the guy did accidently shoot himself. I know everybody is on the Sandusky county officals for their poor performance but there are three people that know what happened but with the focus on the county officals we'll never know what happened. Lets start with the sister that as right there. If you want to end this quick charge all three and then see who wants to stay loyal to the pack.

so.....

Amen!!!!

donutshopguy

What justice are you looking for? A change in the wording of the young man's death?

It will not bring him back or ease the pain of the family.

so.....

Yes its about the wording.. no it won't bring him back or change anything. But his legacy won't be suicide. I truly believe one of the boys accidently shot.him. let the record show that..not "accidental suicide" . Can't be both.

R U Serious

I hole heartedly believe that Kayleigh's sister knows what happened. Weather that ever gets leaked to the rest of the world is to be seen. Bottom line is the family had issues and still has issues the 3 that were there should man up and give the Parent the piece they deserve. And the term accidental suicide is EASY to understand. If he was playing with the gun and it went off accidently it should be called just what it was. He accidentaly killed himself (suicide)!!

donutshopguy

So we are spending all this time and effort to prove if the gun shot was inflected on purpose or by accident by the young man.

Correct?

Matt Westerhold

Thanks donutshopguy. There was no "stippling" at the entrance wound, which is the burn a weapon leaves when it is shot at close-range. Both pathologists who examined the wounds stated there was a lack of stippling. Dr. Cyril Wecht said that means Jacob could not have been holding the gun because the weapon had to be more than 18 inches away from him when it was fired. The Lucas County deputy coroner suggested the stippling was washed away, which is highly unlikel,y according to Wecht, and others.  

Random Thoughts

Actually "stippling" is not a burn.  It is the marks left on the skin (often called tattooing) as a result of the tiny unburnt gunpowder particles exiting the barrel at a high rate of speed and making contact with the skin. (somewhat like getting sprayed with a sand blaster on a much smaller scale).  The problem in this case with the conclusions by Dr. Wecht and others that the absence of stippling means a distant shot is that stippling on the scalp is often not present if the person had thick hair.  This is so because the particles are sometimes blocked by the hair before they make it to the scalp.  A timely autopsy (prior to any cleaning of the hair by the mortician for example) should have determined the presence or absence of these gunpowder particles - but we all know the autopsies in this case were far from timely.  And yes, I do have experience in this field and have severel photos of gunshot wounds to the head where stippling is clearly visible below the hairline but absent above the hairline.

Detrain

Ok you have experience in this field random thoughts but the gun that was used was very powerful when shot off. A picture showes same gun being fired and flame coming from it. wouldn't that leave a burn of some what Plus stippling at that close of a range

R U Serious

I would say yes to that question. The problem seems to be with the report that the forensic specailist said the angle the entrance and exit wound were on had NO flash burn. The gun had to be in a position that the kid could not have shot himself. Thats were all questions come in like what was the sister doing when it happened in front of her. The saddest thing about this whole mess is all the personal details and comments made on here and facebook. Once the AG determains that the kid could or could not shoot himself then you will get to the truth. It's just pathetic that the three stooges in the room can't say what really happened.

donutshopguy

RU,

Why do you call them stooges? Were they ever ask by the police to tell their interpretation of the events? What did they say? Do they not agree with your rendition even though they were in the room and you weren't ?

R U Serious

yes i'm very close to one of the guys in the room and yes I do know that they were all talked to and one of them has been questioned more than once and was told that there were incosistancies in the stories that the person provided. No I wasn't there but when you know someone who was and you hear pieces behind the scene it makes you sad that it just gets drug on.

donutshopguy

RU,

So your information is second hand at best. Is the family's information similar ? As an outsider that has no stake in the game I am having a hard time understanding all this fuss. So do you believe someone else is involved in the death or is this just about the wording on the death certificate ?

R U Serious

Personaly I think the family wants the word suicide off the death certificate. The second is simple...if the gun was too far away to leave the stippling then who shot him. With the kids in the room it should be very cut and dry. He had the gun or he didn't and thats all everybody wants to know.

donutshopguy

RU,

So the police never ask that question? I find that hard to believe. My guess is that the girls answered that question but their answer was not what the family wishes to believe.

Sounds like a lot of fuss about nothing. Other than the family and a handful of conspiracy theorists the world has moved on.

Detrain

it is funny that all three witnesses were in the same room at the station being asked questions. They should have been seperated. There stories did not all match.

R U Serious

Amen donutshopguy!

brassman

How can they be looking for the truth? It's been ruled suicide twice but they are sticking with the result they paid for. They clearly aren't interested in the truth.

Detrain

How do you know that brassman. It was ruled suicide before witnesses got to the station.what do you mean result paid for they had an autopsy done. it should have been done by Sandusky County.

Leopold

If he had life insurance most will not pay if it is ruled suicide.

Julie R.

I don't believe this is about life insurance but even it were, what's wrong with that? Isn't that what life insurance policies are for? That ruling of "accidental suicide" was ignorant beyond belief.

so.....

Donut and ru..the 3 kids never told the same story twice. The one boy they didn't even interview for months. They allowed them to change their clothes right there and threw them away without testing them. The coroner never laid an eyeball on the body. Just went by what the kids said happened.which was jake was on his phone talking, with his right hand, then he shot himself...with his left hand..tho he is right handed and his phone was found in his front pocket. this is just a small amount of the things that make me call foul and question the statements of the kids.
Plus fuss about nothing??? A young life is wiped out, regardless of how, is something. Your nonchalance is insulting. I hope you never find out just how insulting.

Detrain

Well said so

Bethany Nath

Reading some of these comments is upsetting. To some of you this story is getting old. What about to his friend and family? Its not old to them. All they want is to know what happened to their son. His little girl should know what happened to her daddy. If you think this story is getting old and stuff then don't click on it and read it. You have that option. Why waste your time and write something negative. I believe justice will be served. Hopefully soon. I support this family 100 %. I wish I could do more.

JUSTICE FOR JAKE & ELLA

so.....

Well said!

Detrain

Well said bethany. Justice for jake & Ella