'Not inconsistent'

Lucas County deputy coroner favors accidental suicide ruling in Limberios death; says everybody else had it wrong.
Register
May 23, 2013

Jacob Limberios might have committed suicide, accidentally. 

That's the finding from Lucas County deputy coroner Cynthia Beisser, who performed an autopsy on Jacob's body on May 2, about 14 months after he was killed.

"The manner of death, as you know, has to do with the circumstances surrounding the death," Beisser wrote in the report. "It is not determined at the autopsy table, but by investigation of the death scene and putting together all of the available information concerning the death. In this case you must put the autopsy finding together with the scene investigation and the ancillary laboratory studies. However, the autopsy studies are not inconsistent with the original ruling of suicide."

Beisser determined that Sandusky County sheriff's deputies might have made the right call when they told Sandusky County coroner John Wukie Jacob had committed suicide but it might have been accidental. That original finding came less than three hours after Jacob was killed and Wukie went with that ruling without ever examining the body, the location where he was killed or talking to witnesses. 

Jacob was with friends for a social gathering on March 2, 2012, inside a Clyde home when he was killed. His family and people who knew Jacob, and three witnesses inside the home when he was killed, all said he showed no signs of depression or gave any indication he was troubled. Jacob was a father to a three-year-old daughter. 

Jacob's parents, Mike and Shannon Limberios, repeatedly asked Wukie and county officials to order an autopsy after Jacob was killed, but they eventually obtained a private autopsy after county officials stopped responding to their inquiries. Pittsburgh forensic pathologist Dr. Cyril Wecht conducted an autopsy in September and determined Jacob was the victim of a homicide. 

While tentatively confirming the initial finding by deputies that it was an accidental suicide, Beisser concluded they were wrong about which hand Jacob was using to hold the gun and which side of the head he shot.

The EMS reports, witness statements, deputy reports and Dr. Wecht all states that Jacob was shot in the left side of the head. 

Beisser concluded he was shot in the right side of his head and that was indicated by the "beveling" of the skull bone from the wounds. 

"Here, in fact, the true nature of the wounds in this case is revealed. The entrance and exit gunshot wounds are still well defined in the skull bones," Beisser wrote. 

Special prosecutor Dean Henry, who released the report to the Register on Wednesday, declined to comment on the autopsy or the inaccuracies in the statements about where Jacob was shot. The Register incorrectly reported earlier today that Henry had not released the report to the Register. 

Limberios family attorney Dan McGookey said Biesser's finding that Jacob was shot in the right side of the head is the first suggestion of that kind and it flies in the face of the scientific evidence.

"I'm not a forensics expert, but everyone, to a person, said the entrance wound was on the left side. The forensic evidence doesn't seem to even allow for a reasonable debate about which was the entrance and which was the exit wound," McGookey said.

Dr. Cyril Wecht was not immediately available for comment. 

Comments

SuspectBlackMale

Father to a 3 yr old daughter ?????????

ladydye_5

I do not understand the "accidental suicide"...that is a complete contradiction of words. There is accidental shooting, accidental death, and suicide.

Krissy3

Exactly... The fact that there was no intent is inconsistent with suicide. The fact that the right wound is lower than the left doesn't make sense with her downward trajectory claim. Low to high is upward, Dr.

If the only thing she really considered was the beveling from the skull and the crappy "investigation" why all the fuss over the tissue sample? The lack of stippling or searing is not even addressed?

WiseManOnceSaid

So with everyone trying to say that the family bought and paid for Dr. Wecht's finding, i remembered something........

In the audio from O'connell and Brady, O'connell says that consolo was not involved because he's not a team player. He was referring to the last time Consolo was asked to do an investigation he said that the officers were wrong for shooting a sleeping man on the couch. When he was asked to be involved he said only if he could do a full investigation and not have to worry about stepping on toes. He was then not assigned to the case because the officers(? Fill in the holes please i don't remember all of it)didn't want him to be a part of it. Thus O'connell gets the case because he is willing to be a "team player" for Sandusky County. Would they send the report to the deputy coroner if she were not a team player? Why would they be worried about having a team player rather than someone who would do the job right. Am I the only one who remembers that audio and finds it disturbing that they would even use the phrase "team player". I thought this was about Justice....

sandtown born a...

most of us thought justice was bieng sought
(not team player style)

Krissy3

He also said that Consolo allegedly had already said he believed it was a homicide.

sandtown born a...

Beisser keeps saying might so basically she isnt even sure of it. I thought Henry recently said something about others bieng involved in Jakes death? Was this just a ploy to get the last piece of tissue evidence so it could mysteriously disappear

Krissy3

Beisser can't say what happened at all because the range of fire couldn't be determined according to her. All that means is that suicide is possible, but so is homicide. Essentially she left it up to Sandusky county to decide based on the "investigation".

There's nothing in this report that wasn't in Dr. Wecht's other than that she thinks it was right to left and he says it was left to right.

nobodyfromnowhere

Its hard to tell whats in Dr. Wecht's report since the Register has never posted it. Why is that? Does it say something they don't want out? Sandusky County released Dr. Bessier's complete report which not only includes her findings and conclusions, but also how she arrived at them. Lets see Dr. Wecht's COMPLETE report.

mrite

The SR won't do that. Haven't you realized that this paper is used solely for their agenda?

Krissy3

Dr. Wecht's autopsy is posted on the justice for jake fb page.

It is basically the same other than he says trajectory is left to right, addresses the lack of stippling that Dr. Beisser also mentions and actually makes his own decision on the manner of death. Dr. Beisser's is pending for Dr. Wukie's decision.

luvblues2

She really wants to go down with "the team"?

Simple Enough II

Russian roulette are we saying?

Ehovemom

I cannot imagine the pain of losing a child. Unfortunately nothing can bring him back to his parents or to his child.

Life is not a tv episode that gets solved in one hour. There probably should have been more of an investigation in the beginning. I imagine the scene the officers saw made sense with the explanations they heard. But we can't go back in time.

All these autopsies are only one person's opinion. I am sure they can keep doing tests and keep coming up with more opinions. But I personally think it is time for this young man to rest. Perhaps he accidentally shot himself or perhaps someone else accidentally shot him. There should not have been a gun there and guns are not play toys. But nothing will bring him back.

Again, so sorry for the loss to the family.

Swiftshot

Forensics has become an exact science. Autopsies are done to prove or disprove. I do not believe that there has anything to do with an opinion.

Centauri

"Forensics has become an exact science"

Forensics is not an exact science. Physics and chemistry are examples of exact sciences.

http://tinyurl.com/og7rtdc

My question is what type of bullet entered Jake's skull. I know that it was a .357 but was the bullet a wad cutter, hollow point or other design and what was the weight of the bullet in grains? Was the box that the bullet came from saved for evidence?

There are many variables to "beveling" of the skull. Was the brain examined for bone fragments? What was the location of the bone fragments within the brain? Had Jake's body been sent to Toledo within 24 hours of his death, the wound channel from the bullet could have been looked at.

Krissy3

Beveling doesn't always reflect the "true nature" of entrance and exit wounds like she claims anyway. A tangential shot will produce external beveling at the entry wound.

Krissy3

So, long story short; theres still no evidence of stippling or gunshot residue and no evidence of his intent to kill himself?

Dr. Beisser really established nothing by doing this autopsy because she offered absolutely no new evidence. The only thing this autopsy does is dispute Dr. Wecht's left to right trajectory and that isn't really relevant to determine a manner of death anyway.

Sure. It may not be inconsistent with a suicide because she couldn't determine range of fire but that means it isn't inconsistent with homicide either. Guess what that means? Inconclusive. She can't say with scientific certainty that Jake committed suicide but she can't say he didn't either.

If she needed close up pictures why didnt she ask for them? Decomposition made it impossible to determine range of fire? Well guess what, that wouldn't have been an issue if an autopsy was done a year ago when he died.

It's ridiculous that this family has had to bury their son 3 times and spend tons of money on legal fees just to get answers and all they get is a "well, now it's been too long to tell what happened for sure".

Dean, let's be honest and just admit that you jdon't really know for sure what happened because the investigation was mishandled and have your client change his ruling to inconclusive. This has gone on long enough. Dr. Beisser and Dr. Wukie can argue back in forth about whether it was right to left or left to right but none of it matters if they can't determine the range of fire.

Sitting In The ...

When you have deputies telling coroners how people die you know something not right. Where the rest of the evidence that points to an accidental suicide?. If this was accidental wouldn't the other boys be considered responsible because their actions either directly or indirectly caused the death of the someone else. Of course the Sheriff Department will never admit they screwed up this investigation and our hoping it just goes away.

Advocate For Animals

It's bad enough this whole thing has been botched from the start by the very people who are expected to protect and serve the community. What's even more sad and tragic is the fact that every single person who was in the room when this happened knows EXACTLY what happened and not a one of them has the guts, common decency, or maturity to come forward, tell the truth, take some responsibility, and give this family some peace. Sickening and disgusting. To the so called "witnesses" - I hope the rest of your miserable lives are haunted with the very same torment you have inflicted on this family. You deserve it.

Sal Dali

@Advocate For Animals...I am in complete agreement with you, this has been tragic from the start. One would have to wonder if those witnesses were offered polygraph exams after questions began arising. They may not be admissible in a court of law but they would certainly give an indication as to the honesty of the statements given by the witnesses. People who have nothing to hide shouldn't be concerned about their honesty in this matter. They all should have volunteered to take one to clear the air and likely still could. If these "witnesses" were his "friends" it is the least they could do. Then maybe this child can finally rest in peace and his family can begin the healing process...those witnesses might even begin the healing process for themselves as well. Seeing a friend alive one minute then die before your eyes the next can't be something easy to sleep with. It's better to tell the truth late rather than never.

so.....

all 3 took polygraphs. the county said they passed even tho they told a different story every time they spoke.

Sal Dali

I would expect after recent events (state intervention) they will be questioned again and everything will be gone over with a fine toothed comb like it needs to be. Knowing this, hopefully someone will come forward with the truth or more information even if it is to save their own tail.

Krissy3

I just took the time to actually read the whole report. The manner of death is listed as pending until Wukie makes a decision. If Wukie is deciding the manner of death on her autopsy what was the point of her doing it?

Also, she says that she couldn't determine range of fire because of decomp and other factors but then in the trauma details she notes there is no muzzle imprint or blackening of the skin around the wound. That's the same thing Dr. Wecht said, only he directed that indicated it was not a suicide.

The ONLY things different between this report and Wecht's is that she says its right to left trajectory, she chooses to ignore that there is no stippling or other indicators of close contact range, and that Dr. Wecht decided his own manner if death instead of waiting on Sandusky County to do it for him!

nobodyfromnowhere

Wukie is the Sandusky County Coroner in Ohio he is the person who assigns "Manner of Death". The Lucas County Coroner's office is contracted to preform the physical evaluation of the body and advise on cause of death ie: Gun Shot Wound to the Head. Also Dr. Bessier specifically noted in her report the lack of stippling around the wound, she did not ignore it. I would like to see Dr. Wecht's ENTIRE report posted for comparison, not just a 2 page letter.

Krissy3

She did ignore it because she said that her investigation is not inconsistent with a suicide and that the range could not be determined. Generally lack of stippling, burning, or searing implies a distant wound.

Krissy3

And again, the Wecht autopsy is posted on the justice for jake Facebook page where it has been available for public view for months.

Krissy3

It doesn't make a bit of sense that Dr. Wukie decide the manner of death for her autopsy. He already decided the manner of the death in March of last year. Everyone already knew that the CAUSE of death was a gunshot to the head so why would that be the reason Dr. Beisser was contracted as you suggest? She didn't even offer an opinion to whether it is suicide or homicide in this report, she just states that she couldn't disprove the original ruling that it MIGHT have been a suicide.

As a forensics major and someone who works in the criminal justice field it is infuriating to see this case pan out. She claims the true nature of the crime is revealed from beveling. The only thing that beveling reveals is that a bullet went through the head. No one ever disputed that. Does it matter whether it came from the right or left? Not really since SC kept saying he could have used his left hand to fire the gun anyway. Does beveling even reflect entrance and exit wounds with 100% accuracy? No. Therefore, beveling doesn't "reveal" anything in this case.

The most important thing to determine in this autopsy was whether it was a contact (suicide) or distant (homicide) range. According to her, even though there is no stippling, burning, or residue (which are the signs of close range) it is undetermined...

That, my friends, means she cannot with any scientific certainty decide if it is a suicide or homicide.

That means they are right back to square one. Sandusky County gets to decide the outcome.

Centauri

"Beisser wrote in the report. "It is not determined at the autopsy table, but by investigation of the death scene and putting together all of the available information concerning the death."

What "investigation" of the death scene? What happened to all of the evidence from the death scene? Not collected and thrown away?

Krissy3

Exactly. Just like how she can't determine range of fire because of decomp and the fact that they waited a year to do an autopsy. Without range they won't know forensically if he shot himself or not. Now once again it is up to Sandusky County to decide what happened based on their "investigation". I have no idea why everyone thinks Dr. Beisser ruled it a suicide. The report says the manner of death is pending based on Dr. Wukies decision and that because the range of fire couldn't be established she couldn't prove or disprove the suicide ruling. All this report established is that there was beveling in the skull, so a bullet went through there. Whew, I'm so glad they dug him up again to figure that out.

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