Perkins Schools levy results

Perkins Schools levy shot down
Melissa Topey
Nov 5, 2013

Perkins Schools 6.73-mill, 10-year levy, with all precincts reporting, according to unofficial results:

AGAINST-2,971

FOR-1,881

Comments

Thomas Paine

Moving millage back is in my opinion is idiotic and shows a real lack of understanding of school funding.

fifteenthgreen

Can't move something back that is being used to pay back a loan to Citizens. Non issue now. The money is accounted for.

Subtle

@ JEF
RE: "This is false, report cards are standard. Perkins is not scored on more nor is the computation different, why would you say something so misleading?"


There are certain categories that both Perkins and Sandusky are scored upon that NO other schools in the area are. To make matters worse, Perkins has a number of students that span multiple at risk demographics.

For example, and unrelated to any specific student, if Perkins has a student who is:

A special needs student, from a lower income family, who is of African American decent, and that student fails their Science test...

Perkins gets that student's score, from that single test, taken off the following categories:

Economically Disadvantaged
African American
Students with Disabilities

So why does this matter. Lets say School 'A' (graded on the same categories as Perkins) has a single student ('Frank') that fits all of those categories above, and a few more ('Bob', 'Jenny', and 'Betty') that fit into a single one of those categories above. To even further illustrate, and to stay in line with categories Perkins is scored under,we are going to add in a single multiracial student ('Joe'); and three white students ('Pete', 'Sandy' & 'Jeremy'). Please don't complain to me about the categories, the state set them not me ;)

Betty is lower income.
Bob is a student with disabilities
Jenny is African American
Joe is multiracial
Frank is African American, low income, and has a disability
Pete is white.
Sandy is white.
Jeremy is white.

All 8 students take the math exam in the 5th grade.

Betty scores an 81%
Bob scores a 79%
Jenny scores a 99%
Joe scores an 84%
Frank scores a 51%
Pete scores an 81%
Sandy scores a 96%
Jeremy scores a 70%

An honest scoring system that shows the true valuation of the school's educational abilities would average all 8 scores leaving the total percentage for the school at 80.12% giving the school as a whole a passing average (the cut off line is 78.5%)

The state scorecard does it a little differently to penalize schools with students that span multiple demographics. Using the numbers above the state does the following:

81% (Betty) + 51% (Frank) divided by 2 = 66% Lower Income Score
79% (Bob) + 51% (Frank) divided by 2 = 65% Student with Disability Score
99% (Jenny) + 51% (Frank) divided by 2 = 75% African American Score
81% (Pete) + 96% (Sandy) + 70% (Jeremy) divided by 3 = 82.3% White Score
Joe's 84% as a multiracial student stands alone.

Those scores are then averaged out to an overall school grade of 74.46%, well below the passing cut off line of 78.5%. So basically, one student spanning multiple categories caused school 'A' to fail ALL of the following:
Lower Income
Students with Disabilities
African American
Overall

Of course this an extremely downsized and over-simplified example, but it helps illustrate what happens with students who span multiple categories. Perkins has numerous students in the bottom 17.2% that span multiple categories.

Many districts have been accused of or have been in trouble for 'helping' students in at risk categories pass their tests. I personally am glad Perkins does not do this.

The bottom line is, if they want it to be a fair assessment, the state needs to REMOVE ALL THE LABELS. They are ALL STUDENTS. Tally up all the scores, average them out, there you go... no 'funny math'.

sugar

Well I guess then there is no fix, so I say shut the whole damn school system down or merge with a system that is viable. "decaying buildings"?? A building built in the '60's is hardly decaying. idiotic, do I have to point out once again that there are schools operating in this county with much older buildings and do not get the tax dollars the Perkins system gets? You LOST now figure out what to do with what you have or shut the heck up.

Subtle

Perkins gets less tax revenue than any school in the district. Please see previous page.

Don't forget the last time a building improvement levy was passed was 1978. The district has never had tax support from this community, at least not since the early 80s.

The average median income between Perkins and Huron is virtually the same, yet Huron residents manage to afford more than 9 mils more than Perkins.

TP mentions a Pinto below. If I give you 1974 Pinto and $100 per month to use for gas and maintain it every year from 1960 until now, it's going to look pretty pristine and run like new.

Perkins is like a pinto owner who only got $50 per month for gas and maintenance ever since they got it. Sure they can put gas in it but just squeezing in an extra oil change a couple times a year takes a bit of budget magic.

If a tire blows you are in debt for three years while you repay what you took to replace it. By the time 40 years have passed, that clunker should really be in a junkyard... yet through some miracle, Perkins Public Schools has kept that pile of scrap running despite never being funded by the community even on par with the worst schools in the area.

Thomas Paine

Sugar, Glad you are offering solutions by telling people to shut up. Great contribution!. On a serious note, I can fault previous administrations for not taking care of the buildings. Yes they were built in the 1960's. They haven't been well maintained and they are in fact cost ineffective. With the amount of students going in and out of the buildings on a daily basis the cost to do needed repairs and maintain will cost more than building new. Its the equivalent of paying to put a new engine in a rusty Ford Pinto. And you are correct there are older buildings in other counties I don't have data to see what those districts get in tax dollars. A merger may not be a bad idea and should be discussed. However if you pay attention every school district in Erie County has new buildings on its agenda. Several in Huron county have rebuilt so have districts in Ottawa County. Why haven't ANY of the schools in Erie county? Just saying they were built in the 1960's and to shut up isn't enough.

eriemom

Nut shell:
We have segregated our students into different tracks at an early age. The parents from the different programs live in their own bubbles. One bubble was all about being on the committees and a part of the building process. The other was not. Now we have a very large population of Perkins votes who were not a part of the planning, so have no understanding of school finance.

To solve the problem start from the inside. Integrate all students and bring their parents with them.

Gunner described the downfall in Bryan as not communicating effectively with influential people in the community. At Perkins he moved to the opposite by not communicating well with less influential voters. For the most part the less influential voters from our community stand together as "No" voters. Find the influential voters within that group and work with them to compromise.

sugar

What a pile of horse manure Subtle. If all you can afford is a 76 Pinto then that's what you drive. Now fix it and drive it. You find my solution unpalatable but it's a solution none the less. So quit spewing your rhetoric and drive or come up with the money yourself, because the taxpayers said NO!

Subtle

So you are saying pull the money out of thin air? Perkins works with half the tax revenue of other schools and has done so for the past decade or more. How long do you think it can get by getting barely enough money to pay for the utilities etc... we are funded like a school smaller than St. Marys...basically almost enough to properly maintain Edison High School, and just their HS, not the other buildings...almost.

It's not an unpalatable solution...if you neglect something long enough, as the tax payers in Perkins have, eventually it is going to require financial participation on the part of the community or it will shut down plain and simple.

You can't pull money out of thin air.

Perkins has not been given enough money to properly maintain it's school; and at this point it would cost the tax payers about 20 million more over the long haul to fix PHS rather than build a new HS.

Sometimes the level of stubborn stupidity in these comments is mind boggling. Build a new HS for 30 million that will save millions in utility payments over the course of 20 years, or dump 25 million (as of 2008) into repairs, lose the energy efficiency and continue losing money every month on heating and cooling, and spend ANOTHER 25 million in 10 years for more repairs.

Simple question... which is a bigger number 50 or 30 >.<

Personally, I have seen enough uneducated drivel out of this community... I'm almost praying we merge with Sandusky, it would almost be worth having to pay the extra 14 mils in taxes just to know that you have to as well...

Can't fix 'too ignorant to listen', no matter what the facts.

fifteenthgreen

"Sometimes the level of stubborn stupidity in these comments is mind boggling. Build a new HS for 30 million that will save millions in utility payments over the course of 20 years, or dump 25 million (as of 2008) into repairs, lose the energy efficiency and continue losing money every month on heating and cooling, and spend ANOTHER 25 million in 10 years for more repairs."

Your figures keep changing, Subtle. First it was 100 million with a 50 million break from the state. Then it was a 50 million dollar school with a 25 million from the state. Take a break from this for a day or so. Your input is appreciated but I think you're about ready to snap!!!

Subtle

The 100 million was for the campus with all 4 schools on one piece of property. It was a one time deal from the state and required a tax payer vote. The voting public turned it down. The subsidy is gone. That deal is dead.

Read back, I never mentioned a 50 million dollar deal with any money from the state. The cost to repair ALL the schools was 50 million in 2008. That's our burden, the state can't help. They offered money (campus)and we turned it down. There never was and never will be a second offer.

The repairs to the school are currently in excess of 50 million. The estimate was 50 million in 2008. Nothing the voters do or say will change that.

The repairs to the high school at that time were 25 million and Briar was 10 million. The estimates made out of the recent 3.5 million dollar loan that was used to investigate the BEST solution with the least taxpayer impact determined consolidating the high school and Briar and then repairing Meadowlawn (8 million) and Furry (8 million) would be the absolute cheapest solution.

No matter how you slice it the HS needs 25 million in repairs, the high school alone. The same contractors said that the repairs would get it viable again for 10-15 years before it would need another similar investment to fix other aspects of the school that are currently in fair condition but that will need repaired within a decade. ALL of that did not take into account the millions efficiency experts say would be saved in heating, cooling, and powering a NEW school.

I'm good, I'm just getting tired of pulling up all the facts and then having people who have never looked beyond the comments section here and the guy they were sitting next to at the bar's opinion, ignore the facts.

fifteenthgreen

Got it. I thought that was where you were going. Thanks for clarifying.

fifteenthgreen
underthebridge

From the October BOE meeting minutes:

Mr. Kosior explained that there may be legal action at the end of the meeting.

Mr. Kosior reconvened the regular session at 6:55 p.m.

Motion by Mr. Chapman, seconded by Mr. Carroll, to approved the following:

…to enter into a contract with Firestone, Brehm, Wolf, Whitney & Young LLP toprovide legal services between November 1, 2013 and June 30, 2014 at a total cost of $33,320.

What's the grand total of legal fees now?

Subtle

Not having any first hand knowledge I can't say for certain, but my guess would be that is what I would expect to pay if I had to defend against a lawsuit from an employee I fired for sleeping on the job... if for instance I ever had to deal with something like that with MY company. Boy, would it be awkward if I had to keep working with any of her relatives... I wonder if he'd have a chip on his shoulder...hypothetically speaking of course.

fifteenthgreen

You need to get some sleep!

Subtle

You have to admit that was witty ;) Potentially true, but witty nonetheless ;)

Actually, maybe I will watch some TV and hit the hay early, it's been a while :D

eriemom

Firestone, Brehm, Wolf, Whitney & Young-past, short term BOE member

D. J. Young III
bio dj copyMr. Young is a serious trial attorney and business transactions attorney. He has extensive litigation experience including over one-thousand hours of actual in-court time. He has significant successful jury trial experience in state and federal court. He has worked on multi-million dollar real estate development deals and business transactions for local and regional businesses, and he has prepared business and estate plans for their owners.

underthebridge

Interesting development. I think Subtle is correct that this represents the district gearing up for the Carol Smith trial. How many times can this district get sued?

Subtle

I don't think there is a limit on who can file frivolous lawsuits >.<

donutshopguy

Is that DJ Young the former board member?

fifteenthgreen

Not sure.

underthebridge

It is the same one.

underthebridge

It is the same one.

wantin2know

Other than the obvious dislike for the school board and the superintendent, has anyone considered that possibly an added tax payer expense might also be contributing to the No vote? Taxpayers, like the schools are limited in their capabilities. There are only three options to control financial problems. Increase income...reduce expense, or a combination of increase and reduction. Very few taxpayers are able to increase our incomes, even though our expenses are constantly increasing. I would suggest that since the only remaining option is cost reduction, and that every measure possible be taken to explore that option.

donutshopguy

My hope, with the latest election results, is that the Perkins School Board reaches out to the 60% "no" voters for insight on how to right the ship.

It's time to take into consideration the majority opinion and represent the community as they wish the schools to be operated. Their opinion may not fit your beliefs but it's your job to represent them even over your own agenda.

oldpirate

anyone can go to the meetings and get involved.

fifteenthgreen

Nothing gets done at those meetings in regard to public opinion. Difficult to explain your stance with the one minute time slot you're allotted. Been to many of them over the years and my children have attended, as well. Anything pertinent gets discussed in executive session. This current format might need to be addressed, oldpirate to allow everyone to fully speak their mind towards a resolution. It may take more time to hear everyone, but right now time is of the essence and all we've got.

underthebridge

"anyone can got to the meetings and get involved."

as long as you agree with them.

oldpirate

People run for the board and are elected. They are charged with the responsibility to make decisions in regard to the running of the schools. People have the right to offer input but if they want more they should run for a seat on school board.I hope it doesn't return to business as usual with poorly attended board meetings and a uninformed community.

Under seems like more excuses to not get involved. There will never be total agreement but if people don't get involved we will only fail and Perkins will be no more.

Pages