Perkins Schools levy results

Perkins Schools levy shot down
Melissa Topey
Nov 5, 2013

 

Perkins Schools 6.73-mill, 10-year levy, with all precincts reporting, according to unofficial results:

AGAINST-2,971

FOR-1,881

Comments

fifteenthgreen

"Class on and off the field?".......or on our new 1.7 million dollar bleachers that were part of the 3.5 million dollar design loan!!! $700,000 for five years and did you know that the bleacher donation was included in this loan and the inside millage is being used to pay it? Don't get me wrong, I love our stadium, but again, could the old have lasted a little longer to buy us some time. Also, if the district had to take out a loan to make this contribution, why not have the boosters and community continuing their work to fully fund the project. After all, we are and were in a fiscal crisis!

God Of Thunder

What it all boils down to is this... The previous BOE, being attached to Gunner's Geppetto strings, have all lied and deceived us as taxpayers. Until the board members that have screwed us all are removed, there will be no levy passed.Congrats Mr. Ahner for your election. Work to get the other nitwits out of there so the system can get back on track

Lin Williams

all politicians LIE AND ARE DECEITFUL! Why don't you refuse the Erie County tax hike that just occurred, refuse to pay that see where it gets you!

God Of Thunder

I refused to pay this school levy today!!

Truth or Fiction

Scapegoats in the order of importance:
1) Superintendent
2) Board of Education
3) Teachers
4) Staff and support personnel
These are the same scapegoats highlighted by district school levy opponents. This is not new and is not limited to Perkins. First the opposition attacks the leadership. Then they attack wages and benefits in almost a jealous rage reminiscent of the French Revolution. Then the purists in the group attack student extracurricular activities noting that reading, writing, and arithmetic are the only studies needed for a well rounded educated student. The one important item the opposition fails to highlight is the damage caused to students.

I would hope that we get over our grievances and find common ground to be constructive not destructive!

kal-el

There is something really wrong, bordering on immoral, about people who are literally gleeful about destroying their excellent school. And don't give me this "we care about the school so we vote no" bullcrap. You don't. The glee is palpable. All over what? A couple McDonald's trips a month?

Can you imagine being a 13 or 15 year old kid...who reads these comments? Then wonder if mom and dad can come up with the $1,500 to pay their athletic fees? I can't.

Enjoy the kids running through your backyards at 3:30 pm instead of being in an organized activity.

Third generation syndrome. Someone else built it, your parents sustained it, but you people don't think you have any responsibility to perpetuate or improve it.

I can't believe this is the community I grew up in.

Transplant1

Well put. I did not go to school here, but well put. Now we will see the real fall out. If things don't change the real fall out will be next school year.

spamalot

Definitely agree with this, too!! My son couldn't play football because I couldn't afford it. He wants to work to help out, but he's too young, so he comes home and is bored out of his mind. I will say this...despite the issues, these kids have bonded, and are even more full of pride than before. They're making the best of a crappy situation until it's resolved, which is what the NO voters needed to do, too. Support the children in their crappy situation until we can get Gunner out.

Rude McGootch

I have always voted yes for Perkins school levies. Today was the first time I hesitated when I sat down to put pencil to paper on my ballot. I thought for a long time before deciding to vote yes, despite Gunner being the Superintendent of Perkins Schools. I fear we will never be able to pass a new levy as long as Gunner remains Superintendent. That being said, people need to realize that our new stadium was built with mostly donated money and labor. The grandstands were condemned on the old stadium and replacing them, along with the needed repairs of the field and infrastructure, would have cost the District as much or more than the what they paid building the new one. Perkins High School is the cornerstone of our community and we should all be proud of our new stadium instead of bad mouthing it's construction without knowing the facts. I do blame the current board for not educating the public on the breakdown of the cost of the stadium or the levy situation. The BOE needs to explain and educate the public instead of hiding and remaining mute. I'm a firm believer in the theory that any business looking to relocate to an area looks at the schools to see what kind of community they're moving into and what kind of educational opportunity they offer. After all, they don't want to move to an area filled with dunces. I fear that if Gunner remains, and the BOE sits on it's hands and does nothing to educate the public on the problems they face and explain the current fund situation adequately, they will NEVER pass another levy.

kal-el

Until this town stops being fixated on one person (the Supt (current, past, or recent past)), and realizes what is being destroyed (classroom instruction) through elimination of jobs, they won't pass a levy. Until the town values education over politics or personal grudges (both with the school and their fellow neighbors), it won't pass a levy.

Until this town stops making the local school the proxy for their tea party, anti-government beliefs, because it's the only tax it gets to vote on, it won't pass a levy.

Meanwhile, the poor kids get fat playing xbox instead of being at track practice while the kids of means notice nothing. Public school, really???

Shame on you, Perkins.

Good 2 B Me

"our new stadium was built with mostly donated money and labor"

50/50 does not equal mostly

Gunner and the BOE stole $1,700,000 from the operating fund to build this stadium. Now he has to ask the people that use said stadium to pay to use it.

This is called irony.

jim1450

This makes me laugh, today's parents by their children $500 phones, new cars & anything else they want but cry about pay to play.
Priorities?
My bad, tax payers should foot the bills for school sports.

underthebridge

Agreed

lifetimeresident

I 2nd

KnuckleDragger

LOL. The same ones complaining probably have plenty of money for that pack of smokes and 12 pack of beer. Cut out a few of your luxury items and ante up mom and dad...it's for your children for crying out loud.

Yanni

A lot of stay-at-home Perkins trophy wives might have to grab a job app and get their fingernails dirty if Jimmy & Julie want to continue to kick around a ball. The end is nigh.

Meanwhile your Supt just shifted into 5th gear while driving to Bryan, OH the second his work shift ends thinking 'The best part about Perkins, O is LEAVING Perkins, O.'

lifetimeresident

@Rude. I felt the same way when I sat down, but voted yes. We will NEVER get a levy passed until he is gone. END OF STORY. But dont forget he called the insurance company and had our stadium condemed. Our new stadium 3.4 M that 1.7 M was paid for by FRMS and donations. The other 1.7 M is being paid by me and you. I will continually vote yes, but thats only 1 vote. Wake up people. Quit being YES people and open your eyes. The guy and his puppets destroyed our district. Lets wait till August. Put a levy on the ballot for 3.5 Mil. And lets explain where this money will go step by step. Lets lower the pay to play fees by having some local sponsers. If your kid plays sports let him get up on Saturday and go help out with the carwash. Change needs to be made. I will still keep voteing yes.

dire wolf

I assume the Board and Gunner now realize that they should not have taken without consent the 2 million or whatever it was out of the school operating fund just to try to make their football field look better, while all the while thinking that the taxpayers would just anti up later anyway. It was low class dirty politics what they did, and quite honestly, i am proud of the Perkins residents for standing up for what is right and saying they won't take that kind of cocka going on behind their backs. Please don't say it is more about the kids, this was an adult game they played, and they tried to use the "kids" card as their pawn/leverage. Every person on that board who voted yea to take the funds out of the operating fund should hand in their resignation tomorrow at 8:00am... But then again, i don't have a horse in this race, so i don't really care, it's just my opinion.

lifetimeresident

@Dire Wolf.
Your right. If the Chapman guy cared about the schools, honestly, he would step down first thing tomorrow. Gunner on the other hand still gets that nice check.

PyrkinsPyrate

If the kids in Perkins are the type to run wild and turn to crime because the entire community wouldn't endure a lifetime of higher taxes to provide their amusement.....well if they are that rotten then I am glad we aren't giving them anything. I guess if I couldn't have been in Yearbook club and Future Teachers of America when I was in High School I would have joined a Street Gang and killed people.

princedenny

Some of the comments on here are hilarious, some are ignorant, and others are informative.

The ones that annoy me most are those people complaining about the pay to play fees and how kids will be running around after school and terrorizing the public.

BE A PARENT and make sure your kids stay in line. Otherwise you'll get to pay fees of another sort, and your children will have a nice criminal file to go along with some (more) serious problems aside from not playing a sport, participating in band/choir, etc.

Plus, I believe Perkins passed a police and fire levy earlier this year, so maybe the rent-a-cops can earn their money if those problems arise. Hopefully they won't.

Quite often in life, we don't get the things we want and have to work hard to achieve our goals. Sometimes those goals are achieved, often times they are not. The kids these days are spoiled rotten, and it's about time they learn first-hand that they can't always get what they want.

I see the dismissive and disrespectful attitude a lot of students have for adults, and acting out when they don't get what they want. Go to Walmart, a classroom (in any school district), or pretty much anywhere out in public, and you'll see what I'm talking about. Can't say I'll have a pity party for this generation anytime soon.

Finally, maybe you should use this situation as a teaching tool (work hard to overcome a difficult situation, don't undermine other people to do the convenient thing...or move money around, and MOST IMPORTANTLY, don't blame others for your problems) for your children instead of complaining about it.

Subtle

15th asked earlier for me to explain what the yes campaign can do to reach the 'no voter' crowd so I'll try to briefly address the issue. Let me preface this by saying there are SOME who wouldn't vote to pass a levy if it came with a guarantee of a full scholarship for every student in Perkins to the college of their choice. There are also many people who simply saw the vote no signs and thought that the levy must be a bad thing as an anti-levy campaign is very uncommon. Personally, I believe it scared the 'no' group that they only won by 300 votes in August, so they wanted to be proactive.

Clearly the bulk of the community is apathetic to the issue entirely, as we have never had even 50% of the registered voters come out to vote in any of these levy elections. Half of the community simply do not care or feel their vote doesn't matter. The other half was pretty much an even split in August.

What needs to be done is to effectively communicate and explain things that the campaign didn't realize would need to be explained. For instance, first, the average voter, yes or no, probably has very little idea what the superintendent position does.

Clearly, the no campaign has portrayed it as a position of power; but the reality is it carries about as much actual power as a retail store manager. He is responsible for overseeing the employees and supervisors beneath him much like the manager of a store does.

He is responsible for insuring state regulations are carried out and adhered to in much the way a retail manager insures corporate regulations are adhered to in retail stores.

He is responsible for networking with state representatives, other superintendents, etc. the way a general manager of a retail store networks with other general managers and district managers on a monthly basis. These meetings (for both superintendent & store manager) consist of determining what issues are currently the biggest concern, what methods and strategies have been implemented, and how successful the results were.

He can order repairs for immediate structural issues, such as a burst pipe, in much the way a retail store manager can order the repair of a broken toilet. Both can pay for these emergency repairs out of a discretionary fund, but neither can do so much as repaint the lines in the parking lot without the approval of the board, or in the case of the retail manager, corporate.

He can research ideas and strategies implemented in similar districts in much the way a retail store manager researches sales techniques and management strategies used in other stores. Unlike retail store managers whose decisions only effect their employees, the superintendent's decisions effect the school, the teachers, the staff, the students, the parents, and the community. As such, where a retail store manager can implement change because 'Bob' at store 151 said it made his profits increase by 56%, superintendents have to research the research, verify the history and origination, check the numbers and then find experts to check them again. Then, he can present that idea to the board, and ultimately they decide if the idea is implemented.

Dr. Gunner, has even more challenges than a retail manager. The current financial situation is much like if a retail store's stockholders were to call him up and tell him they are only going to give him half the money necessary to pay for the stores rent, upkeep, employee wages etc. The store manager might have to lay off some people, cut hours, divert money from building maintenance to pay for the employees, cut store sponsored events such as employee golf outings or holiday parties... or make the employees pay themselves if they still want to do those things in spite of the money shortfall. The reason I say Dr. Gunner has more challenges is because before a store manager would go through all that, they would quit. Dr. Gunner has worked with the board to find solutions that have as little impact on the school, parents and community in spite of getting less funding than any school in the area.

He's not the president, he's not a king, he's the MANAGER of the school... and before you say "Well if all he is is basically a retail store manager; why do we pay him so much?" think about this. The General Manager at the Sandusky Best Buy made over $200,000 (almost a quarter million his first year!)per year for the first 3 years he worked here after bonuses... Dr. Gunner makes $117,000. Who do you think has a more important , and more complicated job.

Lastly, retail store managers do not have to worry about the legal ramifications of every decision they make the way any administrator at a school does. School law is a tangled web of grey, black, and invisible areas that would make a Harvard attorney laugh at you if you asked them to navigate it (it's just not enough reward for the trouble for anyone actually in the field as a general rule).

So that is pretty much it, though I have probably forgotten some aspects of both Dr. Gunner's job and your average retail store manager; however, well just wrap this up and call it "Voter Information 1: What Can a Superintendent Do"

THAT is what the yes campaign has to do, explain everything...even stuff they shouldn't have to, like 'how much power does the superintendent have'.

Too long, didn't read (TLDR) version: If you don't even know what a superintendent does, how can you blame him for everything? I know, trust your neighbor, he probably does...doesn't he? You have said you want all the facts. The levy campaign will have to give them to you to succeed, but you'll have to listen so you can make an informed decision next time...

lifetimeresident

@subtle
People like you are why I cant get my neighbors to vote yes. Quit looking at everyone like their dum perkins uneducated farmers. WE ARE PERKINS.

Subtle

@lifetimeresident
RE: "People like you are why I cant get my neighbors to vote yes. Quit looking at everyone like their dum perkins uneducated farmers. WE ARE PERKINS."

39 comments on this thread prior to my post and thousands throughout each discussion thread leading up to the election target Gunner as the sole reason for voting no. The villain, 'the tyrant', the 'ruler of the school', the 'leader of the Gunnerbots', the 'king', the 'captain asleep at the wheel'...so many catchy names and insults that lay the problems all at his feet, list him as the reason for voting no, and indicate he has power that he simply does not have, would disagree with you.

Name me one of the changes to the district or one of the 'problems' throughout the campaign process that could have been caused by Dr. Gunner.

If people had any understanding of what a superintendent can or cannot do, there wouldn't be any comments such as these on here.

The community decides how much money the district gets and then Gunner researches solutions and gives the board possible solutions that they then vote upon. Gunner does not have a vote in this process, nor can he 'veto' anything the board decides. Clearly, people believe he is the villain, and it is because they have no concept what he, or anyone in his position, can or cannot do.

No one said they were "dum[sic] perkins uneducated farmers", they simply need to be educated as to what the superintendent position entails and what limited power it yields.

fifteenthgreen asked what the yes campaign needs to do to reach the no voters, and I'd say, by the number of anti-Gunner comments, that explaining everything from Gunner's position to the inside millage in simplest terms is the highest priority. They are campaigning against a rumor and blame campaign that is based off a vocal few uninformed people that say, (specific to my explanation of the superintendent position) that Gunner is the main problem, and obviously, if you have even a remedial understanding of the position and what it entails, he simply cannot be.

NOTME

I would like to thank you Subtle for very informative and well-written posts. I also agree as to the approach you have suggested but would like to add that I think fifteenthgreen also needs to be a part of the solution as well. I think the fact that you two are perfect spokespersons for each side, Subtle for the "yes" and fifteenthgreen for the "no", when you have a dialogue I think both sides feel represented and heard. Fifteenthgreen I could be wrong but I feel you had a little something to do with spreading the concerns of the no voter and increasing the numbers and hope and believe that your reasons are truly of integrity and concern for the future of the district. As clearly the levy failed, the no vote increased, and if what I am seeing in your posts in this thread you would like to figure out a way through positive means and come to a solution that will make everyone confident in the administration again. Then perhaps creating a blog (without the help of the register)specific to the cause could facilitate a coming together of sides and have a positive impact to the community. I think this would allow for the "communication from the district" in an understandable relatable manner and also allow questions, comments, and suggestions from the community (in a respectful manner). However I think it important that it is maintained by a representative from both the "no" and the "yes" sides to ensure the "trust" factor.

fifteenthgreen

Thank you, NOTME. We're working on creating an open blog for future discussions for all parties involved. I believe the kids are working on something, as well. We don't want to duplicate efforts. I truly believe that this will all work itself out and the schools and community will move forward together! Agree on Subtle being informative, as well.

Also, I am a huge yes voter when I believe in what and who I'm voting for. I don't like being labeled a no voter. I voted yes for the PI levy in May and will not hesitate supporting the schools in the future should things change.

fifteenthgreen

"confidence in the administration" is vital!

Informed

they're, not their

Suitcase Simpson

Just a few thoughts....
- I would like to congratulate the boe and Gunner because so far, there have been no reports of students sent to 'help' vets cast their ballots!!!
- To those who claim that we will now have a crime wave because their spawn will be unable to compete in sports, too bad. Apples don't fall from the tree and we'll find room in the jail.
- To those attacking no-voters with their claims about students' lives being ruined, take a hike. This was more about raises for teachers and administrators as they plot their next attempt to build a 'dream' campus.
- Perkins has suffered from a superintendent and boe who have acted as cheerleaders for the pea. As a result, the teachers' ranks are bloated, over-paid and ungrateful. They demand and gunner pays them more. Don't forget that teachers chose to abandon the classroom so they could wear cheesehead costumes and picket at Columbus against SB5.
Follow the money. The voters have spoken and we're tired of providing the big houses and plush cars for teachers who can't even receive mediocre ratings from the state.
The curtain has been pulled and the wizard-gunner and his minions have been exposed for what they are! Move on, gunner!

sash

You did notice the OVH overwhelmingly voted yes didn't you? Without any "help?" Won't hold my breath for anyone to apologize for the ugly accusations leveled against the students and BOE from the last levy attempt.

sugar

You Perkins people are a hoot! When one crosses Perkins Ave going south they move into Perkins township, not the F'in Hamptons. Get over yourselves. Looks like a merger with Sandusky is in your future. Don't want it? Why? We all know why, you're bigots. Half of you have maxed out credit cards, are in over your heads, now play to pay! LMAO!!!

Gyro Cart Guy

This is a First-ballot Hall of Fame Comment. You had me at Hamptons.

fifteenthgreen

"The Hamptons" :) Pretty good, sugar. I'm open to exploring a merger and have said this before. With open enrollment, the merger has already started.

MYthoughtsexactly

Since so many people are saying the 'no' vote was because of money, I'm sure each person voting yes or no had a specific reason for why they voted that way. My thoughts are, just because the levy didn't pass, it doesn't mean that repairs can't be made to the school(s). What it does mean is that people COULD come together as a community and donate money to make the necessary repairs. If money isn't a factor and you are really just looking out for the kids, don't you think it would be better to take some of the money you would have paid if the levy had passed, have a leader start up a fund and allow people to donate to it for repairs that need to be done, or extra curricular activities, band, choir, etc.? I mean there are athletic boosters that raise money for sports... don't you think there are people who would donate more freely if they knew that all of the money would be going to building repairs or another specific area? Just as there are people who donate to sports, maybe there are people out there who would donate to band, choir, science, etc. I am sure there are probably people out there who would donate for reasons other than sports. Just a thought........

Good 2 B Me

The 'NO' vote was not about tax money, just so we are all clear on that!

Otherwise, I agree. Get that booster club out there seeking huge donations like they did for the Stadium!

PyrkinsPyrate

It is only about money and I just want to remind you that it was only $26 per month that the no voters betrayed the kids for. That is how much just two 12 packs of beer per month or one pack of cigarettes per week would cost. Just cutting out a fancy cup of coffee two times per week could of paid the $26 and given the children a new school, activities and all of their dreams would have come true, just one restaurant meal per month would have paid the $26, that is all anyone was being asked to pay was $26 which is the same as HBO and a bottle of wine for the month. Did I mention what really got me mad was the constant lying that it was $26 per month? Did I ever explain how offended I was that the levy campaign members decided to relate the false price with what things I should do without in order to pay for their children's entertainment?

princedenny

$26 a month!!!! EXACTLY!!!!

So you are saying it's OK for me to give MY hard-earned money to PEOPLE WHO HAVE PROVEN ON A REGULAR BASIS that they mis-manage funds, con / lie to the public, and also to teachers and administrators who are making more than me (someone who is college educated, lives within a budget, and works hard for every dime I earn)?

I DON'T THINK SO!!!! GREAT job Perkins!!!!

Food For Thought

I am confused? Are you angry at supporters or no voters?

princedenny

I'm not angry at voters from either side, but I do believe the NO voters made the right choice.

I'm merely replying to Pyrates point about her wanting me to give an extra $26 per month (for every $100K my home is worth) to people who obviously have a history of making poor financial decisions, and just so her kids can play sports.

Rosa

Maybe PHS should think about uniforms, then all the money the parents spend on clothes could pay for their dreams. I don't smoke or drink beer, but it is MY money and that may very well cut into something extra I deserve, be it beer, wine, movies or restaurants....

Cross

While I voted no, I'm completely against what Suitcase above has just said. Our teachers are excellent and I'm quite proud of them. This was never about them, but more about the continuing fight to build, build, build from the BOE and Superintendent never with a plan mainly focused on our kids.

The original levy a few years ago leveraging the stimulus money should have aimed for a simple solution and sold better. That was so massively mishandled, everything since has snowballed and the BOE is fixated on building and the No voters are fixated on Gunner.

Perkins renewal levy passed last year. There is enough money to properly run this district. Budget with the money we have and focus on our kids for the next year instead of fixating on building Camelot.

Cross

Here's to hoping we get an actual budget next year based on current money and not a wishlist and another year of political campaigning.

donutshopguy

I presented other possibilities to the superintendent on school funding and was told "no thanks". Part of the suggestions were similar to those mentioned above like fundraising for building specific sections of the school. Another suggestion was to present a levy that funded a main building and other levies on the same ballot that funded areas such as the pool, auditorium, music wing and gym. This allows voters to decide what they want in a school. I was told this was not possible by the superintendent but I didn't give up and researched it more. The state approved this method of funding on a ballot.

I have kept quiet on these blogs during this last attempt to pass a levy. The results remained the same. It's time for the school board to pursue new funding methods and start the healing process.

The school board, superintendent, administration and many teachers know my real name. Don't you think it is time we work together? I'm just a phone call away.

danbury dad

I know I am not from Perkins Twp. but I have followed this issue for a long time. In an off election year this is an enormous defeat for the levy. It is evident that the voters want change before they vote for a tax levy. If it is all about the kids as both sides want why are there so many bullheaded people not willing to change. I like to see a community standing up to the public servants they hired by election on something they deem important. Listen to your Voters BOE, implement the changes they desire they give you your paycheck at the end of the day and you are beholden to them. Not he other way around.

Good 2 B Me

YES!!! We have a winner!

AllTheAnswers

Is it possible that the BOE 5 years ago brought Jim Gunner into Perkins and informed him to "bring us into the 21st century and build us a new school at all costs"? By not living here, Gunner could detach himself knowing this would be a polarizing issue. Maybe Gunner has done EXACTLY what the former BOE brought him to do. It has failed, a new BOE is now at the table, and it is time to move down the road.
Also, since Perkins Locals is in such a financial hole, is the person responsible for these finances (and advise of spending) doing his/her job properly? How qualified is the person in charge of the finances? Should there be a committee set up to monitor the finances? In further regards to this issue, when does/has the Kalahari cash flow enter the picture. Is Perkins getting any money or is Kalahari still not contributing to the district? Whose decision to allow abatement if the school coffers were in need when this decision was made? Should something happen to KBI in the very near future, what has Perkins done to plan for this?
In regards to the ridiculous pay to participate fee, how was the current amount derived? Wasn't part of the divisor based upon LAST YEARS' participation level? What if THIS YEARS' participation level is higher? That would mean LESS than $730. And was 2012-2013 REVENUE part of this voodoo mathematical equation?
The voters of Perkins NEED a reason to vote yes and no one has presented that reason. Even when the economy was fine Perkins did NOT vote for levies. If someone could research the 20 year history of the Perkins Local School votes, that would be very interesting for the BOE to see...Perkins doesn't seem to vote FOR levies, only when they are well informed and feel good about the schools.
Is it possible for the PEA to give back 3% of salary this school year to offset the pay to participate fee? With step increases, this 3% giveback really amounts to a true pay freeze which would be honorable to start the healing process. Again, to you much smarter people, would 3% of salaries pay for 650 kids to participate? As well as the MS kids $185 fee?
The community needs to combine with ideas to crest this mountain. What a shame for a once proud school.

enictheeltrusion

not suprising

Thomas Paine

Would love to be a fly on the wall at the meeting of the minds with what appears will be a puppet member of the board. I would assume the Board president - I believe is Mr Kosior? - will be meeting with Mr. Ahner first to inform him of proper board practice and protocol. Any board should speak through the president and anything in executive session should stay there and not become public knowledge. Of course board members can meet with the public and discuss ideas and directions they want- the board members need the feedback. A good board member will take those ideas into consideration, be a leader, and make a decision based on the best interest of the district which doesn't and shouldn't always reflect public input. There is a difference between leadership and popularity. Mr Ahner has a lot to learn. I wish him the best and I pray he is a quick learner. I actually feel sorry for him with the Vote No group pulling his strings combined with his lack of experience and the groups obvious lack of understanding of the role of board members and the superintendent. Just making an observation but the path the no voters (and majority) have chosen, the path I will live with regardless of how I personally feel, will cost tax payers twice to three times the tax dollars in the end. I feel the end game for this path is a Perkins/Sandusky merger.

oldpirate

Just an observation for those who thought unethical and shady things went on at the OVH. 33 for the levy and 13 against
. Guess maybe the accusations were made up.

Subtle

@princedenny
RE: "$26 a month!!!! EXACTLY!!!!

So you are saying it's OK for me to give MY hard-earned money to PEOPLE WHO HAVE PROVEN ON A REGULAR BASIS that they mis-manage funds, con / lie to the public, and also to teachers and administrators who are making more than me (someone who is college educated, lives within a budget, and works hard for every dime I earn)?

I DON'T THINK SO!!!! GREAT job Perkins!!!!"


I don't see where people come up with mismanage funds. The Perkins district has received, from this community roughly half (for some) and not more than 2/3rds the tax revenue of all other districts in the area. And has managed their money just fine for 13 years. Of course that meant there wasn't 'extra' money laying around like most schools have to have things repaired perfectly over the past two decades. Things were fixed 'as best as they could be within the confines of this district's pitiful tax support. Recently, the state started taking money (2.5 million per year) from Perkins to fund other schools. They made this decision because they find the average community with median incomes similar to Perkins township manage to support their districts even without help from the state.

I'll tell you what, I'll give you $50 dollars per month that you can use on your car. That is all the money you can use, for gas and oil, cleaning, etc.

You may be able to budget it precariously so that you can actually get where you need to go FOR A WHILE, but eventually, probably before even two years have passed. The car will be in disrepair, probably need hundreds of dollars worth of repairs (due to having to stretch the time between oil changes so you can actually have the money to drive it) and it will look 5 years older than it is because you won't even have had the money to vacuum it out on a monthly basis... that is Perkins, they get basically nothing from the community but they keep the car running.

Now lets pretend the city of Sandusky has a car and I give them $73 per month (incidentally, those numbers are proportionally EXACT with the difference in the millage, 28mil/41mil). Sandusky can put the same $12.50 per week in their car for gas, but they also have money left over for oil changes, and cleaning. Since they have extra each month, they can even set aside a fund so when the tires start to wear down, they can replace them, or if a tire blows, they can replace it without having to ask for more money so their car isn't out of commission completely.

Does that help illustrate the difference in managing Perkins budget as opposed to any other school in the area's?

Now as for your income and teachers' income. The average starting salary for a teacher in Perkins is $36,094 per year. Assistant managers at Burger King make between 24k and 39k per year depending on location with the average being $28,677. McDonald's is very similar for their assistant managers paying them 17k to 40k per year with the average being $28,640. That means our college educated teachers are starting out at just $8,000 per year over what a assistant manager at a fast food restaurant starts out at. The guys that Buckeye send to your house to hook up your cable make on average $30,846; and the average insurance salesman makes $36,083 per year.

Who am I to say you are mistaken, but I highly doubt you graduated college and found a job in your respective field that started at less than $36k per year, but who knows some degree paths yield much better results than others. Of course your argument is moot if you took a job that does not require a college education or is outside outside of your area of study.

Before you ask, the average teacher salary in Perkins is $60,209. The Under-Pharmacists (pharmacists in training) at Wal Mart make on average $71,267 and the head pharmacists make on average $120,322 per year. Plumbers at Roto-rooter average $51,748, and The average accountant at Barclais makes $67,391, and finally your average registered nurse with Kaiser Permanente makes $77,688.

NOTE: for professions that had listings by individual companies such as nurses and accountants, I picked a company in the middle of the pack. The deviation from the listed average in both cases was within $10,000 (+/-) for various other companies.

Does that clear anything up? People wonder why I feel almost every statement has to be responded to in great detail to filter out the fantastical misinformation.

underthebridge

Subtle - what don't you get?

Its the stadium. The BOE does not seem reasonable when they say:

"The buildings!!! The buildings!!!! We need more $$$$ for buildiings!!! The buildings are dangerous!!! We have to have $$$ for buildings or education will suffer!!!"

But here is $1.7 million dollars for a stadium that they said they would originally provide $850,000 in matching funds for??? They do not prioritize properly. That is mismanagement. I'm going to go with your beloved car example.

"I need a new car so I can get to work. My car is not worth repairing anymore because it is so old. Give me $ for a new car, but ignore the fact that I took a lavish vacation which is why I don't have money for the car."

That is mismanaging funds and priorities and that is what has turned a lot of yes voters into no voters.

Subtle

The stadium bleachers were condemned. That meant if they didn't replace them, there would have been no football program and no track. My son and oldest daughter graduated Perkins already and my youngest daughter still attends. I have lived here all my life and love this community and school district, but if Perkins had to cancel their sports programs for even a single year, I'd have open enrolled them all to Huron faster than you can say "Go Tigers!"

Why because you don't get into good colleges without extracurriculars. You don't learn hard work, dedication, and leadership without sports.

I've said it before, create a project such as design a fund raising campaign for Perkins schools where students have to order product, set prices, and organize labor and design it to be completed within a month, at which point the team that has made the most money wins. Give me a team of 3.0 GPA students who are active in sports and extracurriculars, and you take a team of 4.0 students that are not, and my team will win every time; and it is that way throughout life.

goodtime1212

As far as I know the insurance company condemned them, there never was a true cost estimate to repair or a qualified construction company called to look at the stadium. It was part of the master plan, why do you think the stadium sits like it dose, they knew before they tore the old one down there would be a new school. no trust still will vote NO

fifteenthgreen

Wrong, Subtle. Other schools offered their stadiums including Huron and Margaretta to help plus ours weren't "condemned". Also, you can get into good colleges with good grades and ACT scores....and money!

underthebridge

Agreed.

underthebridge

The stadium was extravagant. The athletic program is extravagant. In life, we often don't get everything we want. Your BOE chose athletics facilities first. Education facilities will have to wait.

Informed

Only is this area do you get people who say the schools here are extravagant. You people need to get out more. Go to other parts of the state or to other states. They think our schools are a joke.

underthebridge

Stadium was extravagant in the face of facilities that are so bad.

Rosa

Colleges look at a lot more than sports... they really look at volunteering and being active in the community. And you don't need money to volunteer...Something for all you sports advocates to think about.

underthebridge

Thank you Rosa. This generation of students and their parents have been led to believe that athletics are the only place a student can become well-rounded and develop teamwork skills.

fifteenthgreen

When are we going to start using the money from this renewal? I saw videos on the levy site showing asbestos issues, crumbled concrete, missing mortar in brick and steps in need of repair. Get some bids and get on it!

Press Release - Perkins Local Schools - May 8

Perkins School District voters supported the renewal of the permanent improvement levy while defeating the request for new operating funds last night. The School Board and employees would like to thank the Perkins community for their continued support of the school’s permanent improvement levy. The renewal of this levy is expected to bring in $750,000 annually for building repairs, technology and the replacement of buses, vans, and other capital equipment. This levy is important to keep the aging facilities of the district from deteriorating further until a long-term solution can be implemented. The permanent improvement levy was first passed in November of 1988 and has been continuously supported by the residents of the community since that time.

Subtle

If I am corrected, that money wont be collected and available until tax payments come due next year. This is however, a subject I am somewhat unfamiliar with, but if I recall correctly, it takes until the end of the year following the passing of a levy to have access to the revenue.

Let me check with some folks when I get a chance and I can get clarification.

I don't want to sound like a fatalist, nor am I trying to make a situation sound more dire than it is; however I also don't want readers to get the wrong impression. The entire $750,000 that we will have access to after 1 year, is not enough to fund even HALF of the asbestos removal.

I say this because the voters/readers/community have to realize that if for instance the 750k is used to remove part of the asbestos, there will undoubtedly see the following dialogue:

Community: "we gave you 750k, what did you do with it!"

Board: "We used it to start the asbestos removal"

Community: "But there is still asbestos in the school"

Board: "Yes, and there will be for 2 more years"

Community: "Wait, what?"

Board: "It is going to take 2.5 million to safely remove all the asbestos and it can only be worked on in the summer"

Community: "So you mismanaged our tax dollars again?!"

Board: "No, 3 independent asbestos removal firms estimated the removal will cost 2.5 million back in 2008. Those reports and estimates have been available to the public since 2009"

Community: "OMG! I can't believe you mismanaged our tax dollars again!!!"

Board: "Unfortunately there is no asbestos removal company on Earth that can safely remove all the school's asbestos for $750,000 or we certainly have hired them"

Community: "More lies! Fire them! Fire them all! Vote NO!"

Board: "Really? ..."

Board: /facepalm

That was meant to be somewhat humorous, but it is also a little scary as each and every one of us knows at least someone who we could see having this very conversation.

People have to know that whatever they decide to repair with that money will take a couple years before it is 100% completed, and not being able to repair beyond what there is funding for is not mismanagement, it is just the way it is... for any of us, in any financial situation.

Thomas Paine

Facepalm. LOL :)

fifteenthgreen

The real Facepalm came yesterday! LOL :)

underthebridge

http://web.princeton.edu/sites/e...

from the above link:

"When is Asbestos Dangerous

When left intact and undisturbed, asbestos containing materials do not pose a health risk to people working or living in buildings. Asbestos containing material is not generally considered to be harmful unless it is releasing dust or fibers into the air where they can be inhaled or ingested. Many of the fibers will become trapped in the mucous membranes of the nose and throat where they can then be removed, but some may pass deep into the lungs, or, if swallowed, into the digestive tract."

fifteenthgreen

Thanks for the link.

"Asbestos-containing ceiling tiles, floor tiles, undamaged laboratory cabinet tops, shingles, fire doors, siding shingles, etc. will not release asbestos fibers unless they are disturbed or damaged in some way."

Are children's fingerprint indentations in wall structures and ceiling tiles a form of "disturbing" the material? The district posted the video and find that acceptable? I know exactly where it is. The boiler rooms we can live with for now. Areas where children can actually touch (disturb) and push into the material is unacceptable and should be removed or isolated.

fifteenthgreen

"People have to know that whatever they decide to repair with that money will take a couple years before it is 100% completed, and not being able to repair beyond what there is funding for is not mismanagement, it is just the way it is... for any of us, in any financial situation."

Subtle - Not if they take out a loan for the repairs knowing the money is coming annually. They did it for the stadium donation and stuck it in on the design loan without public knowledge.

Thomas Paine

Take out a new loan on money that may come and pay interest on future estimated income? If I understand correctly all the no voters are upset that the school already did this once for the stadium. Now you are suggesting doing it again for a different project while still having the other loans out there without passing a new levy? Tax dollars coming in constantly change. They aren't a concrete figure every year. There is no guarantee that state laws don't change and less money comes in. Public finance is so much different than personal finance. Every suggestion on here bases dollars and cents on their own personal finance experience. You cannot do that with public dollars, it just doesn't work that way. Every figure the school gets is an estimate based on possible state, federal and local tax dollars and is constantly changing,(ie. recent property value changes) until the school gets the funds they are only estimates. Not only that but those dollars cannot be used for whatever the school wants to use them on. Certain taxes have to be used for certain things. Personal finance you get a paycheck and you can spend it or save it how you want. Schools don't work that way.

fifteenthgreen

I hear you T.P. Why not on the loan? 2.75% interest is like cheap money on a loan and the immediate repairs get made until we can resolve this. I wouldn't want to run any entity not knowing what my income stream was but if I faced that constant uncertainty, I most certainly would plan for the worst and live within my means.

Certain taxes approved by the community was used for other than intended, as well. The stadium donation was hidden in the building design loan with a five year $750,000 annual loan payment coming due....even after the voters said not right now. This is the type of hurdle we are facing right now. Please tell me if I'm wrong.

Thomas Paine

Using the logic of 2.75% is cheap money; voters should have approved new buildings when we had a chance with the state subsidy and we wouldn't have wasted countless years of putting money into the building equivalent of a 1976 Pinto and having to borrow money to fix it just to keep it relevant. The comparison of the age of the building not being an issue because your home is older and is just fine isn't a valid comparison either. Your home doesn't have thousands of people walking in and out of it daily. Imagine what your house would look like if you have 750 children living in it and using it. I think the public doesn't fully grasp the cost of maintaining public buildings. This whole mess is continuing to cost more and more the longer we delay the inevitable. So hiding behind being fiscally conservative is absurd when every decision being made right now is costing us millions of dollars. The fact is the school has enough money to either fix the buildings OR run the school not both without a levy. I am assuming the "using money other than intended" is the millage move. The millage move became a necessity because the community has refused to fund the school and insists they have enough money to do everything the community wants them to do and the fact remains they don't. They have had to use creative means to stay above water and live within the means mandated by the state and keep services like athletics, bussing and other extras that aren't mandated but keep us competitive with other school districts. The bullet points of the no voters only takes into consideration snippets of information not the whole picture of how we ended up here. Has the board always made the right decisions absolutely not. Hind sight is always 20/20. Have they tried to do what's in the best interest of the district, I can emphatically say yes to that, only after looking at a full history and reading countless boring meeting minutes have I come to the conclusion. I bought into the no stuff at one point in time too, then I started asking questions, not only our district but other districts as well, if you don't trust our board members ask another schools board members to explain something to you. Why would ALL of them lie to you? Their stories are the same. Each and every move made has not been politically, popular or easy to understand but given the funding issues all schools face its easy to see the writing on the wall and the attempts the board made to not be where we are today. I think the message somehow could have been delivered differently and the timing of certain things could have been done differently, but that is pure speculation since I don't sit on the board and don't have all the information or nearly enough time to dissect and analyze all of it. Personally I think the biggest mistake they made was trying to build a school too big for a conservative community. Many voters out there go by perception which seems to be the driving force behind a lot of this versus reality.

fifteenthgreen

Thanks T.P. But the voters said no several times so where do we all go from here? What does the message need to be knowing the public isn't swayed by pay-to-play fees, teacher and program cuts, etc.? What is the next step in moving forward?

Wald

The pay to play fees are due in full today, right? I imagine the checks are rolling in. If a football player doesn't pay by Friday, does he still get to dress?

themomx6

Perkins has a playoff football game Friday night. Wouldn't it be great if EVERY single parent of a football player REFUSED to pay the "pay to play" fees? What would Perkins do? Not one player would be eligible to play.

red white and blue

With all this hoopla going on how does margaretta do it? Graded A in academics and no pay to play yet nothing but more money more money for perkins. I for one am so looking In to this open enrollment after this year done with the drama and the taxes!!!!

Subtle

Margaretta gets 5 mil more in tax revenue than Perkins.

People keep asking questions like this, but the reality is we really do pay that less than EVERYBODY else.

Bherrle

I agree with Subtle.

Bherrle

Compare the millage rates of two. Also look into the areas that Margaretta is not scored on by the state, and that Perkins is. Also gain an understanding of how those scores are derived. The scorecard is not everything it is cracked up to be.

JEF

This is false, report cards are standard. Perkins is not scored on more nor is the computation different, why would you say something so misleading?

Bherrle

I grant you that the scorecard is the same, but some districts will not lose points in certain areas because they don't have enough or anything to grade.

This was well spelled out by Subtle in a post on a previous article.

red white and blue

Perkins pirate^^^^ your comment sounds like one of those commercials for etheopion kids

red white and blue

I dought very highly they get 5 mil more they have less kids smaller community who's paying it ? What companys are there to get tax from the subway sandwichs.

Subtle

You are correct, I'm sorry it is actually 4.93 mils more, I rounded up to 5 mils because I was in a hurry yesterday.

In case you were wondering about the rest of the area schools:
Edison gets 7.24 mil more
Vermilion gets 3.48 mil more
Sandusky gets 13.58 mil more
Huron now gets 9.53 mil more now that they passed their levy.

fifteenthgreen

Right, Subtle but clearly the public is saying no. What is the next step to sway the minds of almost 3,000 people? I'm all for figuring out what everyone wants to get this issue moving in the right direction.

Also, I read in the SR that Norwalk hasn't passed a levy since 1991 and I believe they built a new school. Not sure if it is an entire campus housing K-12, though. ?

http://www.sanduskyregister.com/...

Informed

Norwalk has a school tax, I believe.

fifteenthgreen

Is this a possible option, Informed. Have no idea what is involved in this process, cost to taxpayer, etc...

red white and blue

Bherrle^^ I'm not a hater so u shouldn't be either. My hats off to this school no matter how they got the grade lets not deminish it.I was only simply pointing out that this school does it with an old school old stadium and a pay freeze till times were better maybe we could learn something from that notice I said WE !

Bherrle

I have nothing against Margaretta, it is a fine school system. My criticism is of the state scoring system.

Subtle

Perkins teachers have had their pay frozen for three years and likely will for 2 more. I believe the administrations pay freeze doesn't end until 2016, but I could be off. I'm headed out so I don't have time to check just yet; but suffice it to say both teachers and administrators are currently frozen, have been for a while, and will continue to be at least through next school year.

Mr. D

Parents of choir kids could start going to church with their kids and put them in the church choir. No fees there.

PyrkinsPyrate

No fees for Church Choir, just a 10% flat tax on total income so the pastor can drive a land rover.

Rosa

GET OVER IT!!! We voted NO!!! And we all have our own reasons, it is nobody's business!! Already, most of our tax dollars go to the school! I think it would be great if we could allocate our taxes where we thought they would be best used, after all it is our money. And to those, who are saying we should be paying for their kids to play extra curricular activities, they are your children, you pay for them....Wait until they go to college, you want to see big bills!!!

Thomas Paine

Rosa, You already do allocate where you want your taxes to go, its called voting for or against tax levies. And if its nobody's business why are you telling everyone how you voted? With no extra curricular activities we wont have to worry about college bills for any of the future Perkins graduates. Like I have said earlier the negative tone is blazing a path to a Sandusky/Perkins merger at a much higher cost to those that believe they are being fiscally conservative. The lack of civic mindedness, how self centered and short sighted people are is unbelievable not only in this community but in our country in general. I am appalled education has become such a divisive issue.

Subtle

@Rosa, as Thomas said, if Perkins merges with Sandusky you will be paying 13.58 mil more than you are now. If the levy had passed you would still be paying 6.58 mil less than if we merge with Sandusky.

I don't know how much longer Perkins can hold out without passing a levy... if you think the school can stand with no money from the community, you are delusional, and if you think your tax rate is too much now, wait until it DOUBLES if we have to merge with Sandusky.

fifteenthgreen

So where do we go from here?

Thomas Paine

Depends on what the majority decides. I know how I will continue to vote and I will do what I can to sway others to do the same if they will listen or engage and only if they want to discuss it. I don't like the yes voters who attack the no voters either or are overly aggressive. A public forum for yes and no voters with no politicians or school officials would be a great idea- because in the end I hope most want what is best for the community. Although there are a few posters on here I know for a fact are from other districts that have added false information about our district and wouldn't show up to a forum. I strongly feel the path taken so far will end up in a place neither side wants to be. All I ask is your vote isn't made out of just anger. There are many no voters that I completely understand their stance and if I was in their position I would do the same. There are many yes voters I want to smack in the face as they are just as bad as the no substance no voters. I try to take centrist point of view and get past the differences and actually find a solution that will work for both sides. If we don't settle those differences and soon there will be nothing left to argue about.

fifteenthgreen

Right, but at this stage of the game it is going to take more than pushing the same message. That isn't working and we're going backwards at the polls. A lesser millage? Administrative moves? A different building plan? Moving millage back? Please add to it.

Thomas Paine

Unfortunately I don't think there is a different message, A lesser millage cant happen- the school is operating at a deficit, moving the millage back will not help next year, will cost us a LOT more money in the future, and once we have that money will be gone with the deficit spending unless the school cuts more. At that point not only does the school not have any funds to operate but they just blew through any funds they had to maintain the buildings. The millage move was in fact the correct move, it protects the funds to maintain or build at a lower cost to the homeowners than a separate building levy would cost us, and it emphasizes the fact operation funds are going to be gone soon. Without the millage move the school more than likely would have had funds for 2 more years, while letting the buildings further decay. The main issue is the community has not passed a levy in 13 years..there is no other way to state it or put it. We have NOT supported the schools- general costs have risen- employees, health, utilities. Technology and the need to upgrade it has added costs all during a downturn in the economy where property value has dropped and state funding has dropped. Nobody wants to actually admit to the truth. Every school district that lacks community support is going through the same issues. It doesn't matter who the board hires as the next super or actually who is on the board if the community doesn't step up and do what it needs to do. A different building plan should have been discussed (maybe it was) speculating again... back in 2008. In my opinion shooting for the moon was a HUGE mistake.

Thomas Paine

I understand people want a different message. But the community telling the school in 2000 I gave you $1.50 for a gallon of gas for the school bus so you need to figure out a way to get the same amount of gas today for the bus with that $1.50, and if you cant do it you have mismanaged funds and I will find someone that can get that gallon of gas for $1.50. It just doesn't add up.

Thomas Paine

Politically speaking- and I don't think it will do anything other than change voter morale Gunner needs to step down or move on. As long as he is around the no votes will continue. Him leaving will cost the district more money, will not change the actual problems, but may move enough votes over. The new super will have the same problems but its pretty clear its something that needs to happen to get a Levy passed. I don't agree with it because its not solving anything.

fifteenthgreen

I'm with you here but the new superintendent will have to have to be of such character and strong presence that the community will buy into their message. It may very well be the same message but I agree, a change will have to occur. Sounds dumb, but it happens every day in all facets of life...especially government.

Has anyone connected with the No campaign to see just exactly what it is going to take?

Thomas Paine

That's the problem. There hasn't been a clear message of what they truly want. The only thing I have gotten out of them is there is no need for additional funds, new buildings, or cuts to programs, or pay to play fees with no explanation or plan of how that is going to work or happen. If they had a plan that showed they have done some research, understood school funding and the topics or even board operations, I would listen. Even their candidates for the board couldn't answer those questions. I have a huge issue with that.

Thomas Paine

My other issue with the no campaign is the only clear message they have sent is wanting a new BOE and new super. My question has always been "Then what?" What is a new BOE and new super going to do differently? And how are they going to accomplish that? My belief has always been a new BOE and new super will send the same message out because the system they work within is broken from the state down. The no group appears to think the rules don't apply to them and changes can be made to funding rules on a local level. Or maybe its just the no group doesn't know school funding rather then thinking the rules don't apply to them. I don't know. Maybe my perception of them is wrong but from their comments in the register, to the blog comments here, and the debates with their candidates that were not prepared on any of the issues, its hard for me to think otherwise.

fifteenthgreen

I really think the district wants a larger voice, though. Leaders that will stand up at meetings and not stay seated in their chair. Show strength and command of their message. Educate those with less knowledge than they in the inner workings of a school district. Look them in the eye and tell them. I hate websites for this very reason. Shake hands. Gain their trust and support by building personal relationships with families. I know companies larger than the amount of people that voted and CEOs that try and connect with every single entity of their corporation. If you can't get to everyone, then you build very strong layers of trustworthy people working your way down to each and every person...and every person is equal to the next. We need to lose the graphs, websites, charts, statistics, thirty page comments and comparisons and build relationships. That can't be done on I-80.

Thomas Paine

Agree with that too. I have suggested the message be simpler and more concise to the board and some others in the district. The problem is there is so much distrust with ANY elected officials that task would be a daunting. What I can't figure out is if the lack of trust is because of a lack of leadership or if it is because peoples general nature now is not to trust anyone in "power". A trickle down effect from federal politics and distrust maybe? Or maybe its a combination of both.

Thomas Paine

Speculating again but Gunner leaving is probably the least expensive of the non solutions of real problems to get votes for the Levy.

fifteenthgreen

Least expensive but probably won't be enough.

Thomas Paine

Agreed. What do you think needs to be done?

fifteenthgreen

The number of people against keeps growing....not sure anymore. I'm trying to connect with those that are heading up the campaign against this to see exactly what it is they want. Gunner leaving will not be enough. The millage move has already happened and can't be reversed. It's all in the same pot, anyway. You say a smaller millage isn't the answer. They have asked for that. Pay to play fee reductions? I think a stronger leadership presence may help but the message will be the same. Getting the NO campaigns endorsement will go a long way because I have never seen it this bad when it is actually organized. They need to be met with and heard. Everyone says it's not about the money.

Thomas Paine

I don't buy that its not about the money. I would guess that half of their group that had signs out, it is about the money and not wanting to pay for something they feel they don't get a benefit from personally.

Thomas Paine

I also get the feeling that even they don't know what they want in the end. That is what scares me the most.

fifteenthgreen

Trying to consolidate the arguments:

Cost - Size of millage
Superintendent change
Board of Education changes
Move millage back
Pay to Play fees eliminated or reduced
New school
Repair current schools
District Report card results
Merge with Sandusky
?

Some of these go hand in hand, I guess.

Thomas Paine

From the yes side: (With a few of my opinions thrown in :) )

1)Size of millage will continue to get worse with each levy failure
2)Superintendant change: Pretty certain that will be accomplished
3) BOE changes) 1 new member 1 incumbent (Opinion: I was disappointed in qualifications and knowledge of the new member and the other candidate no voters preferred)
4) Move millage back - Cant happen without incurring more cost
5) Pay to play reduced- Maybe it can be reduced but other cuts will have to be made elsewhere.
6) Repair schools- With what money? Building new is significantly cheaper in long term.
7) Results of report cards - Strictly my opinion We are transitioning from an educated industry town with higher paid college educated positions, to less educated lower paying tourist jobs without college educations. The families and workers with those lower paying jobs coming in have different family values and place less value on education which directly effects district score cards. Its unfair to judge this administration or its board without looking at the overall makeup of the student body. Subtle has commented on this and is much more knowledgeable than I am on the subject.
8) Merger with Sandusky. If that is the end game it will cost Perkins tax payers significantly more money. My opinion: This scenario may actually be the best long term solution for both communities.

fifteenthgreen

No sides anymore. The resolution side.

Question on 8. If we hypothetically merged, the obvious is the size of the new school district grows. The population of taxpayers grows, as well. All resources would be combined. Wouldn't this be cheaper in the long run? Also, what would be the total district size in regard to student population. Both districts have shrunk substantially in size over the last thirty years. If both combined, I bet the numbers would still be smaller than Sandusky carried only a few decades ago. I'm just curious.

Thomas Paine

Great questions, maybe someone on here can supply data? I agree, I think combining would help the community grow in the long run and be cheaper. Short term the millage for the school would make things more expensive to individuals. I would also agree that the numbers would probably be similar size wise. I do think the fight to combine all resources would get much uglier than the debate on school funding. For it to happen the school would have to go first- The school is really the only identity Perkins has, if that were gone the transition would be better. Personally I have never understood why Perkins people think they are better than Sandusky in the first place. The Hamptons comment on one of these blog posts earlier made me chuckle.

fifteenthgreen

I'll make some calls and see if we can't break down the numbers by grade. Subtle and Centauri seem to be the google/research specialists on here. I'm sure data could be compiled on property revenue, etc. but they may not be for the idea. Again, I'm just throwing it out there for discussion. We can all keep beating each other up over the same topics and arguments, but in the end some sort of resolution has to occur. State intervention is not too far off. I wonder if the two school districts have sat down for discussions. I know other resources have.

Many at Perkins don't really know the Sandusky of old and what a great system it once was. Huge. I also like the direction they're heading in but it will never be same. Perkins has to concede it no longer is the district it once was due to losses in manufacturing which are beyond its control, as well. A thriving New Departure really helped us. Like Davis Besse was/is to Oak Harbor. Maybe combining would make one great system? Even combined, they would be small compared to many other districts in the state. Makes one think!!!

Thomas Paine

Appreciate the civility during this conversation! Sandusky has been a great system, and I do like their direction as well, although I do have to say Perkins was at the forefront of some of the ideas that are now happening at Sandusky. :) They may be able to see the ideas through with their levy passage. Glad to see others are open to discussing issues and ideas even if we may disagree on the approach to get there.

fifteenthgreen

It started out this way but worsened as time went by. I hope more engage in the positive discussion to seek out a resolution. Sandusky folks, as well!

http://high-schools.com/report/o...

Sandusky High - 1206 students Ranked 134

Perkins High - 759 students Ranked 285

Total combined - 1965 students Rank would be 27th in the state

Still trying to find the other grade sizes for comparison. I can't believe SHS is that small now. Used to be 2,500 strong! This has to answer a lot of questions as to what is going on in our area as a whole.

Thomas Paine

Open enrollment has really hurt Sandusky.

fifteenthgreen

True. Ironically, we all use Sandusky as our address but the division between both communities has been strong over the years.

Thomas Paine

Moving millage back is in my opinion is idiotic and shows a real lack of understanding of school funding.

fifteenthgreen

Can't move something back that is being used to pay back a loan to Citizens. Non issue now. The money is accounted for.

Subtle

@ JEF
RE: "This is false, report cards are standard. Perkins is not scored on more nor is the computation different, why would you say something so misleading?"


There are certain categories that both Perkins and Sandusky are scored upon that NO other schools in the area are. To make matters worse, Perkins has a number of students that span multiple at risk demographics.

For example, and unrelated to any specific student, if Perkins has a student who is:

A special needs student, from a lower income family, who is of African American decent, and that student fails their Science test...

Perkins gets that student's score, from that single test, taken off the following categories:

Economically Disadvantaged
African American
Students with Disabilities

So why does this matter. Lets say School 'A' (graded on the same categories as Perkins) has a single student ('Frank') that fits all of those categories above, and a few more ('Bob', 'Jenny', and 'Betty') that fit into a single one of those categories above. To even further illustrate, and to stay in line with categories Perkins is scored under,we are going to add in a single multiracial student ('Joe'); and three white students ('Pete', 'Sandy' & 'Jeremy'). Please don't complain to me about the categories, the state set them not me ;)

Betty is lower income.
Bob is a student with disabilities
Jenny is African American
Joe is multiracial
Frank is African American, low income, and has a disability
Pete is white.
Sandy is white.
Jeremy is white.

All 8 students take the math exam in the 5th grade.

Betty scores an 81%
Bob scores a 79%
Jenny scores a 99%
Joe scores an 84%
Frank scores a 51%
Pete scores an 81%
Sandy scores a 96%
Jeremy scores a 70%

An honest scoring system that shows the true valuation of the school's educational abilities would average all 8 scores leaving the total percentage for the school at 80.12% giving the school as a whole a passing average (the cut off line is 78.5%)

The state scorecard does it a little differently to penalize schools with students that span multiple demographics. Using the numbers above the state does the following:

81% (Betty) + 51% (Frank) divided by 2 = 66% Lower Income Score
79% (Bob) + 51% (Frank) divided by 2 = 65% Student with Disability Score
99% (Jenny) + 51% (Frank) divided by 2 = 75% African American Score
81% (Pete) + 96% (Sandy) + 70% (Jeremy) divided by 3 = 82.3% White Score
Joe's 84% as a multiracial student stands alone.

Those scores are then averaged out to an overall school grade of 74.46%, well below the passing cut off line of 78.5%. So basically, one student spanning multiple categories caused school 'A' to fail ALL of the following:
Lower Income
Students with Disabilities
African American
Overall

Of course this an extremely downsized and over-simplified example, but it helps illustrate what happens with students who span multiple categories. Perkins has numerous students in the bottom 17.2% that span multiple categories.

Many districts have been accused of or have been in trouble for 'helping' students in at risk categories pass their tests. I personally am glad Perkins does not do this.

The bottom line is, if they want it to be a fair assessment, the state needs to REMOVE ALL THE LABELS. They are ALL STUDENTS. Tally up all the scores, average them out, there you go... no 'funny math'.

sugar

Well I guess then there is no fix, so I say shut the whole damn school system down or merge with a system that is viable. "decaying buildings"?? A building built in the '60's is hardly decaying. idiotic, do I have to point out once again that there are schools operating in this county with much older buildings and do not get the tax dollars the Perkins system gets? You LOST now figure out what to do with what you have or shut the heck up.

Subtle

Perkins gets less tax revenue than any school in the district. Please see previous page.

Don't forget the last time a building improvement levy was passed was 1978. The district has never had tax support from this community, at least not since the early 80s.

The average median income between Perkins and Huron is virtually the same, yet Huron residents manage to afford more than 9 mils more than Perkins.

TP mentions a Pinto below. If I give you 1974 Pinto and $100 per month to use for gas and maintain it every year from 1960 until now, it's going to look pretty pristine and run like new.

Perkins is like a pinto owner who only got $50 per month for gas and maintenance ever since they got it. Sure they can put gas in it but just squeezing in an extra oil change a couple times a year takes a bit of budget magic.

If a tire blows you are in debt for three years while you repay what you took to replace it. By the time 40 years have passed, that clunker should really be in a junkyard... yet through some miracle, Perkins Public Schools has kept that pile of scrap running despite never being funded by the community even on par with the worst schools in the area.

Thomas Paine

Sugar, Glad you are offering solutions by telling people to shut up. Great contribution!. On a serious note, I can fault previous administrations for not taking care of the buildings. Yes they were built in the 1960's. They haven't been well maintained and they are in fact cost ineffective. With the amount of students going in and out of the buildings on a daily basis the cost to do needed repairs and maintain will cost more than building new. Its the equivalent of paying to put a new engine in a rusty Ford Pinto. And you are correct there are older buildings in other counties I don't have data to see what those districts get in tax dollars. A merger may not be a bad idea and should be discussed. However if you pay attention every school district in Erie County has new buildings on its agenda. Several in Huron county have rebuilt so have districts in Ottawa County. Why haven't ANY of the schools in Erie county? Just saying they were built in the 1960's and to shut up isn't enough.

eriemom

Nut shell:
We have segregated our students into different tracks at an early age. The parents from the different programs live in their own bubbles. One bubble was all about being on the committees and a part of the building process. The other was not. Now we have a very large population of Perkins votes who were not a part of the planning, so have no understanding of school finance.

To solve the problem start from the inside. Integrate all students and bring their parents with them.

Gunner described the downfall in Bryan as not communicating effectively with influential people in the community. At Perkins he moved to the opposite by not communicating well with less influential voters. For the most part the less influential voters from our community stand together as "No" voters. Find the influential voters within that group and work with them to compromise.

sugar

What a pile of horse manure Subtle. If all you can afford is a 76 Pinto then that's what you drive. Now fix it and drive it. You find my solution unpalatable but it's a solution none the less. So quit spewing your rhetoric and drive or come up with the money yourself, because the taxpayers said NO!

Subtle

So you are saying pull the money out of thin air? Perkins works with half the tax revenue of other schools and has done so for the past decade or more. How long do you think it can get by getting barely enough money to pay for the utilities etc... we are funded like a school smaller than St. Marys...basically almost enough to properly maintain Edison High School, and just their HS, not the other buildings...almost.

It's not an unpalatable solution...if you neglect something long enough, as the tax payers in Perkins have, eventually it is going to require financial participation on the part of the community or it will shut down plain and simple.

You can't pull money out of thin air.

Perkins has not been given enough money to properly maintain it's school; and at this point it would cost the tax payers about 20 million more over the long haul to fix PHS rather than build a new HS.

Sometimes the level of stubborn stupidity in these comments is mind boggling. Build a new HS for 30 million that will save millions in utility payments over the course of 20 years, or dump 25 million (as of 2008) into repairs, lose the energy efficiency and continue losing money every month on heating and cooling, and spend ANOTHER 25 million in 10 years for more repairs.

Simple question... which is a bigger number 50 or 30 >.<

Personally, I have seen enough uneducated drivel out of this community... I'm almost praying we merge with Sandusky, it would almost be worth having to pay the extra 14 mils in taxes just to know that you have to as well...

Can't fix 'too ignorant to listen', no matter what the facts.

fifteenthgreen

"Sometimes the level of stubborn stupidity in these comments is mind boggling. Build a new HS for 30 million that will save millions in utility payments over the course of 20 years, or dump 25 million (as of 2008) into repairs, lose the energy efficiency and continue losing money every month on heating and cooling, and spend ANOTHER 25 million in 10 years for more repairs."

Your figures keep changing, Subtle. First it was 100 million with a 50 million break from the state. Then it was a 50 million dollar school with a 25 million from the state. Take a break from this for a day or so. Your input is appreciated but I think you're about ready to snap!!!

Subtle

The 100 million was for the campus with all 4 schools on one piece of property. It was a one time deal from the state and required a tax payer vote. The voting public turned it down. The subsidy is gone. That deal is dead.

Read back, I never mentioned a 50 million dollar deal with any money from the state. The cost to repair ALL the schools was 50 million in 2008. That's our burden, the state can't help. They offered money (campus)and we turned it down. There never was and never will be a second offer.

The repairs to the school are currently in excess of 50 million. The estimate was 50 million in 2008. Nothing the voters do or say will change that.

The repairs to the high school at that time were 25 million and Briar was 10 million. The estimates made out of the recent 3.5 million dollar loan that was used to investigate the BEST solution with the least taxpayer impact determined consolidating the high school and Briar and then repairing Meadowlawn (8 million) and Furry (8 million) would be the absolute cheapest solution.

No matter how you slice it the HS needs 25 million in repairs, the high school alone. The same contractors said that the repairs would get it viable again for 10-15 years before it would need another similar investment to fix other aspects of the school that are currently in fair condition but that will need repaired within a decade. ALL of that did not take into account the millions efficiency experts say would be saved in heating, cooling, and powering a NEW school.

I'm good, I'm just getting tired of pulling up all the facts and then having people who have never looked beyond the comments section here and the guy they were sitting next to at the bar's opinion, ignore the facts.

fifteenthgreen

Got it. I thought that was where you were going. Thanks for clarifying.

fifteenthgreen
underthebridge

From the October BOE meeting minutes:

Mr. Kosior explained that there may be legal action at the end of the meeting.

Mr. Kosior reconvened the regular session at 6:55 p.m.

Motion by Mr. Chapman, seconded by Mr. Carroll, to approved the following:

…to enter into a contract with Firestone, Brehm, Wolf, Whitney & Young LLP toprovide legal services between November 1, 2013 and June 30, 2014 at a total cost of $33,320.

What's the grand total of legal fees now?

Subtle

Not having any first hand knowledge I can't say for certain, but my guess would be that is what I would expect to pay if I had to defend against a lawsuit from an employee I fired for sleeping on the job... if for instance I ever had to deal with something like that with MY company. Boy, would it be awkward if I had to keep working with any of her relatives... I wonder if he'd have a chip on his shoulder...hypothetically speaking of course.

fifteenthgreen

You need to get some sleep!

Subtle

You have to admit that was witty ;) Potentially true, but witty nonetheless ;)

Actually, maybe I will watch some TV and hit the hay early, it's been a while :D

eriemom

Firestone, Brehm, Wolf, Whitney & Young-past, short term BOE member

D. J. Young III
bio dj copyMr. Young is a serious trial attorney and business transactions attorney. He has extensive litigation experience including over one-thousand hours of actual in-court time. He has significant successful jury trial experience in state and federal court. He has worked on multi-million dollar real estate development deals and business transactions for local and regional businesses, and he has prepared business and estate plans for their owners.

underthebridge

Interesting development. I think Subtle is correct that this represents the district gearing up for the Carol Smith trial. How many times can this district get sued?

Subtle

I don't think there is a limit on who can file frivolous lawsuits >.<

donutshopguy

Is that DJ Young the former board member?

fifteenthgreen

Not sure.

underthebridge

It is the same one.

underthebridge

It is the same one.

wantin2know

Other than the obvious dislike for the school board and the superintendent, has anyone considered that possibly an added tax payer expense might also be contributing to the No vote? Taxpayers, like the schools are limited in their capabilities. There are only three options to control financial problems. Increase income...reduce expense, or a combination of increase and reduction. Very few taxpayers are able to increase our incomes, even though our expenses are constantly increasing. I would suggest that since the only remaining option is cost reduction, and that every measure possible be taken to explore that option.

donutshopguy

My hope, with the latest election results, is that the Perkins School Board reaches out to the 60% "no" voters for insight on how to right the ship.

It's time to take into consideration the majority opinion and represent the community as they wish the schools to be operated. Their opinion may not fit your beliefs but it's your job to represent them even over your own agenda.

oldpirate

anyone can go to the meetings and get involved.

fifteenthgreen

Nothing gets done at those meetings in regard to public opinion. Difficult to explain your stance with the one minute time slot you're allotted. Been to many of them over the years and my children have attended, as well. Anything pertinent gets discussed in executive session. This current format might need to be addressed, oldpirate to allow everyone to fully speak their mind towards a resolution. It may take more time to hear everyone, but right now time is of the essence and all we've got.

underthebridge

"anyone can got to the meetings and get involved."

as long as you agree with them.

oldpirate

People run for the board and are elected. They are charged with the responsibility to make decisions in regard to the running of the schools. People have the right to offer input but if they want more they should run for a seat on school board.I hope it doesn't return to business as usual with poorly attended board meetings and a uninformed community.

Under seems like more excuses to not get involved. There will never be total agreement but if people don't get involved we will only fail and Perkins will be no more.

oldpirate

Also there are many types of meetings for specific reasons. Many have been held in the past. They have been informative but poorly attended.I do agree they are needed but under the direction of the elected board.

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