The Sandusky Register hosted a debate on Senate Bill 5/Issue 2 at the Sandusky State Theatre on Wednesday, Nov. 2. Watch a recording of the debate here.
Use the time bar to skip ahead.
That Bollard guy is a piece of work. He lost all credibilty because he can't make a point without slamming the other side or trying to scare people.
Unless I misheard him, he seemed to blame the death of Officer Dunn on staffing levels and hinting that this will happen again if Issue 2 passes. Randleman caused the death of Officer Dunn, not management making staffing decisions. Listen at 8:40 for his comment.
Well, maybe management did finally see the staffing levels were to low, as less than a month after the officers tragic death, they agreed to hire 4 officers.
Wow - that guy sitting next to Murray seems like an arrogant jerk.
His name is Dale Butland. He is the Communications Director for Innovation Ohio.
About the 14 min. mark he admits that he knows nothing about local issues, but is merely a outside hired gun.
The pro SB5 folks should have used the guy on the right more. The other guy came off as combative.
I voted NO yesterday.........where was TAXPAYER? I was looking for him in the crowd, figured they would have to lead him out in a straight jacket! HA! HA!
Butland knows how to put the crosshairs on those creating the problem and I would say that he did so well with these two.
I am sorry, but Issue 2 will pass without any trouble. People are becoming more informed and voting "Yes" on this issue.
Why is it so hard to believe the Government is Broke? Most of the manufacturing jobs have left Ohio (Mostly because the Unions drove the cost of finished goods up so high that it opened the door for cheaper foreign goods to overtake our domestic manufactured goods.) Look right here in Sandusky, GM and Ford plants are still operating with new names, and with people being paid ½ the wages. The key is they are still operating and generating at least some taxes. The public simply refused to by more expensive products that were readily available at a lower price from somewhere else.
Now the public unions are asking us, the same people who are making 40% to 50% less than they are to keep even less of our money, so they can keep up their standard of living. I’m sorry if the teachers, nurses, firefighters, and teachers think that somehow they are being treated unfairly. Why should any of them be considered as more important, and exempt from belt tightening that the average private worker has to endure? I don’t see any Army, Air force, Navy, or Marine union. No whining and crying from those public servants putting their life on the line.
Yes on 2
I agree, issue 2 will pass. Sure there are a lot of signs in yards stating the opposite but think about that. Why is that? Think about how many corrupt officers and other government workers that have been brought to light in the last few years. Do we really want to advertise to these people that we want them to get paid on merit and to pay their own healthcare like the rest of us? I don't think so. We'll show them how we feel about their behavior on Tuesday when we vote YES FOR ISSUE 2.
I was at that debate last night and was very proud of Dennis and Dale.They were prepared, had researched Senate Bill 5 and eloquently presented the argument that supported repeal of this issue.
On the other hand rep boose and Mr. Morgan did nothing but present the same Republican mantra: this is a fiscal problem, yet later after the debate when Mr. Morgan was asked whether all of the balanced budget question should rely strictly on crippling the middle class or whether it should also include tax hikes for the wealthy, he responded,"I don't agree that we need to raise taxes on the rich.
Issue 2 is not about just curtailing collective bargaining, it is about busting the unions nationwide. That is why Kasich, Rove and other political operatives have sunk nearly $60,000,000 in our state to make sure they hold onto Senate bill5. It will set a precedent on how to bust unions and destroy the middle class throughout our country. It will also set the stage for a better chance in winning Ohio , swing state, in 2012.
If Ohio is so broke, then why not take that $60,000,000 and put it to good use by reinvesting in businesses and jobs for our state?
If some of these supporters of Issue 2 don't see that then they are in the train about to run off the cliff and are commenting on the lovely scenery instead of how to stop the train.
The top 10% of the wealthy already pay over 50% of the taxes. What do you consider fair? And no I’m not wealthy; I make about $50,000 a year and pay $3,600 a year for health insurance with a $5,000 deductible.
As far as destroying the middle class, I am the middle class; the only thing I see by repealing SB5 is taking my middle class private earnings and handing them to a public middle class worker. How do you justify that? More taxes on the rich will only cause them to hold off private sector workers raises, not hire new employees, or lay off current ones. The rich don’t go backwards, that’s why they are the rich.
7% of the workers are public employees, 70% are private, low to middle class workers. The rest are either sucking off of the taxpayer, or they are the rich who hire the 70%. I never had a public employee or welfare recipient offer me a job. I also know that low and middle class workers need the rich to hire them.
Yes the rich get richer, because that’s what rich people do, their hobby is making money, it’s a game to them. Change the rules against them and they take it out on the workers. It’s a tough life. If you’re not happy with your life, look in the mirror, that’s who to blame.
It appears that you are voting yes on Issue 2 because you hold some resentment for our public sector workers. You also claim to be in the middle class. I suggest you ponder if you can remain in the middle class if labor unions are gutted.
I have never been a member of a union. But I am grateful for the work unions have done to facilitate my higher standard of living. The so called middle class was facilitated by the work of unions through their history.
I belong to a union, but I'm voting YES on Issue 2. I think it's about time teachers and other state workers start paying into their pensions and retirement, (not to mention their raises we pay for) instead of taxpayers footing that bill.
Tax dollars well spent LOL!!!!! Vote YES on Issue 2
@ Bleeding Turnips, while it's true that KBI laborers had to take a huge cut in their wages, the skilled trades did not. Since they are the ones that do the negotiating, it is a given that laborers will take another wage cut, while skilled trades will not. Plus skilled trade will get a nice signing bonus again when the contract is ratified, and they will continue to get $40+ per hour and work 7 days per week, at least 12 hours each day. Do the math, time and a half after 8 hours each day and on Saturdays, plus double time on Sundays and holidays. And they work every one. And let's not forget how the UAW stole the pension fund a few years ago. They used it for cruises and to build a country club in Florida for themselves. And we wonder why GM failed in Sandusky? The money in the pension fund was moved to another fund and then disappeared. So, tell me what the UAW has done for the laborers? The ones who do the work, not the overpaid skilled trades who's only interest is negotiate for their own gain at the expense of laborers. You'll all see when the new contract gets settled. BTW, no one is even showing up at the negotiations these days.
BT: "Yes the rich get richer, because that’s what rich people do, their hobby is making money" Hobby should be changed to lobby. The have the money to lobby for changes in the tax code that all of us pay for. Your argument that I must pay, so they must too, has no merit. In fact, it is petty, and exactly what our oh so trustworthy politians expect--pit the middle against itself.
Outofmoney: When We Ohio sited the truth about the amount of money public employees pay into pensions and health care. Mr. Boose did not call them on it. He just said, "so what's the problem?" You could write a bill that accomplishes this goal in one sentence. This bill is over 300 hundred pages long.
Why? Because the goal is not what they state. The goal is to drive a wedge between the middle class and hammer the last coffin nail into unions. Can you explain why I was mailed a a pro issue 2 card from Virginia?
I was at the debate at the State, were you there? I was surprised to see there were only a few supporting SB5 in the audience given the rancor from the right on this blog.
Out of Money-
So you are willing to cut off your nose to spite your face??? Your animosity is misplaced. I’m not saying you are wrong to be upset when your union dues are spent on a Florida country club or pointing out the difference between the skilled and unskilled unions. Having said that, history does provide insight into the difference. The skilled trades organized into the American Federation of Labor in the 1800s and the unskilled followed some 50 years later forming the CIO about 1935. The opposition to unionizing the unskilled was tremendous and the AFL worked tirelessly to subjugate them and only failed because of the tireless work of John L. Lewis who also liked his “perks”.
By definition union unskilled labor is easily substituted for non union and over time we experienced the jobs for unskilled moving out of the country or to right to work states. This movement weakened the CIO and unions in general. Industrialists are all about reducing their payroll cost. SB5 is about continuing this weakening of the unions, thus further reducing payroll costs overall. Do not be confused by this effort. If SB5 or Issue 2 passes regular unskilled labor will suffer and I believe that means you and your family will suffer with the public employee unions. Vote No on Issue 2.
VERY VERY INTERESTING
Bess: No, am not even in Ohio right now. Finishing up the seasons analysis, but will fly in on Sunday. I need to vote no on Issue 2.