Word on the Street: Will voters repeal SB5 or let it stand?

Ohio accepted enough petitions last week to put Senate Bill 5 on the November ballot. We asked several area residents if they thought voters would repeal the bill or let it stand.
Jasmine Pace
Jul 26, 2011

 

Ohio accepted enough petitions last week to put Senate Bill 5 on the November ballot. We asked several area residents if they thought voters would repeal the bill or let it stand.

Give us your two cents below.

Comments

man4451

 

I don't think them people know, SB5, SB-5, Senate Bill 5, WILL raise TAXES. Or teachers earn about $100.oo per hour. Its a one sided storey.

donutshopguy

 American democracy at work. Wether you are for or against SB5 you as a citizen of the state of Ohio have the ability to decide how your state will be run.

Evaluate all the information, make a decision and vote. 

It's a right. Don't take it for granted.

 

Pragmatic

 

I think there is a great deal of ignorance and misguided information being passed around to people.  The other day, I was discussing this with an acquaintance of mine. I told him that I am not an advocate of the unions since I have studied the history of unions – and it’s affects in the past 20 years of our Country’s economy.  He told me that if I am “anti-union” then I must be “anti-teachers, anti-policeman, anti-firemen, etc…”.  Unfortunately, I am finding this ignorance with many people.

 

Let’s be straight here:  Just because someone is not pro-union – doesn’t make them “anti-“ anything. 

 

I was one of the only people in my neighborhood pounding on doors some years back trying to get levy after levy passed in the school district.  I have also greatly supported the police and fire over the years and continue to do so…mainly by being a good citizen.  I am a veteran and believe in the American way. But, that doesn’t mean the unions are the way to our future. I am surprised that so many people think this is our future. 

 

But, since I am not a native of this area – I am finding that the manufacturing industry has left its chaotic wake in people’s minds.  This would be my first clue…that unions are destructive…this isn’t your grandpa’s manufacturing industry anymore.  The industry is gone. Not because we don’t need those manufactured items any longer.  We do.  But, companies are only in business for one reason, to make money. That’s reasonable.  Investors in the company need to receive their dividends or they will pull out.  So, a smart company will leave a geographical area if they are being depressed on the bottom line…to another place that will generate pay for employees, pay for overhead, and dividends to shareholders if they have investors.

 

People in the video are under the impression that rights are being taken away from people (teachers, fire, police). First, I don’t think that one occupation is better than any other. We all have a role to play in this Country:  whether you are sweeping floors, working in an emergency room, being a cashier, a secretary at a non-profit organization, or a CEO of a Fortune 500 company – we are all relevant. 

 

Second: Let’s try and look through a different lens for just one moment. Could it be – that rights are being given to you without a union/collective bargaining? I have heard union worker after union worker complain that bad employees make the same money as they do…yet, that union worker indicates they work harder, come to work on time, are more efficient, don’t complain, add to the good morale of the company, etc.  It would seem like more intelligent thought would be – to conclude that you may be able to negotiate for more money if you are adding more value.  This DOES happen in non-union environments.  Just because it doesn’t happen everywhere doesn’t mean it isn’t happening.  I’ve given raises before based on adding value to my team.  Attitude is a part of my evaluation system – and it counts for a great deal.  Emotions pay a huge role in the workplace. If my team members have positive emotions, we are substantially more effective overall.  This adds to the bottom line of the organization – therefore, adding to their paycheck.   

 

As leaders, we are held hostage by the unions to pay our exceptional team members the money they deserve.  Leaders are also held hostage to decrease pay – and even to terminate employees that even other union members complain about.  This all seems so very simple.  But, fanatical pro-union people are so blinded by the, “power in numbers” that they have difficulty seeing any other perspective.  Not everyone wants the same thing. 

 

You see, we are in a time in human existence that people are intelligent enough to negotiate their own pay and benefits.  I would be terribly insulted if someone negotiated my pay/benefits.  Why do I have to accept what they want – or even what the majority wants?  It isn’t logical.  If I am covered by health benefits from my spouse – and would rather have tuition benefits, but the majority of the workers want health benefits…how does this benefit me?  Okay, I’m getting “something” – but, I don’t need that “something”.  So, I’m paying union dues to get something I don’t need or want.  How is this logical?

 

I have worked in both union and non-union environments.  It greatly irritated me that I had to accept the same benefits as those who were in a different era of their life.  My benefits in the military were excellent when I served.  But, everybody’s benefits were exactly the same (with the exception of some officer/enlisted benefits).  Yet, some people deserved much less because they did less.  There wasn’t a system in place for “pay for performance”.  You could work until your back hurt and get paid the same as the person who sat and watched you all day. 

 

I have worked in one union environment since I have been in the corporate sector.  I thought the union way of life was quite militant in nature.  I have also worked in some non-union environments; I have been able to negotiate the benefits I need.  Most employees do this in the workforce – they don’t count on one person speaking for them.  A construction worker, marketing director, or a secretary may want every Friday off to care for an elderly parent and negotiate to work longer hours during the week; a Generation Y employee may ask for tuition reimbursement over healthcare due to being covered elsewhere and a single parent may ask for flexible scheduling.  There are so many ways to cater to employees today that garner their support, reduce turnover significantly, all the while making companies substantially more successful.    

 

One size does not fit all.  People are making assumptions that they need a union to ensure they are paid, are treated fairly, and are safe at work.  All of these issues are now laws mandated by the government.  But, if truth be told, many non-union companies have better pay and benefits than a lot of the union organizations.  A friend of mine left the police department in Chicago to work for a private security force for a Fortune 500 Company doing very similar work and his pay and benefits dramatically increased – he isn’t union.  He negotiated what was necessary for him and his family.

 

We have moved beyond the Knights of Labor era.  We are a more educated and informed people.  Our government has laws to protect safety, equal opportunity, wage and labor, and privacy.  But, it isn’t only the unions that have lobbied for these laws.  The private sector has spent a great deal of money on this as well. 

 

If people can gain some confidence within – and give negotiating for themselves a chance, they may be surprised at the outcome.  Don’t count yourself short – the unions have already done that to many of their members already.

 

I agree with Donutshopguy – whether you agree or disagree with my perspective, we must exercise our muscle and vote.  When it’s all said and done – no matter how I feel about this issue…my fellow Americans have spoken. 

 

SimpleEnough

Pragmatic, Well put. but i do have a problem with many of my fellow Americans voting, they never study the subject on their own, they go off slanted news or some other so called expert. I've been reading SB5 and so far i don't see a problem with it, I just wish they would cut down all the wording.

 

Perkins2060

Either way cuts will be made.  If SB5 is repealed massive layoffs will happen.  Either way the taxpayers win. 

Hmm

man4451 - you hurt your cause by making such a rediculous statement about teachers wages.  Seriously.  Also, no one wants to say out loud that they support SB5 or they will be accused of disliking teachers/police/firefighters.  I wouldn't put much stock in a man-on-the-street poll.

6079 Smith W

One of the more interesting comments I read this weekend:

"If a child with a tablet computer, assisted by a talented teacher, can access the knowledge base of the entire world, why do we even need a superintendent class, or more importantly, the useless and expensive school district?"

- Bruno Brehend, Heartland Institute

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424053111903554904576458423506023868.html

The major issue is that we're teaching our children in the 21st Century using expensive 19th Century teaching techiques and methods.

The public sector bureaucracy needs to become more productive and that by necessity means less management overhead.

The passing of SB5, by giving local govts more say in wages and benefits is a step in the right direction.

-----------------------------------------------------------

@ Perkins2060:

Your assessment is 100% spot on.

Property and income taxes cannot be raised high enough to offset pension obligations - sumpthin's gotta give.

 

 

 

Common Sense

The problem I have with "Pay for performance" is the determination of how an award is given, especially in the area of education.  If I wanted to play the game, I would ask the principal to allow me to select my students from the class that would be coming up in the next year.  In preparation for this, I would have taken many of my "planning periods" to evaluate the students in their school environment, look at their birthdates and previous scores, and choose only those who fit the best criteria.  Voile! I get the bonus for student performance while my peers struggle with those who have less favorable environments, summer birthdays, and the like.  And yes, I do know someone who does just this.

Re:  man 4451.....

The orifice for speaking is located closer to the sky than the one you are currently using.  Once again someone who knows nothing about a teacher, but makes ridiculous comments just to see your comment in print. What a pity!

Hmm

Common Sense - test scores will likely be just one factor.  Why can't teachers be evaluated just like other professions?

Itsntallaboutu

Looking at these comments~it looks like all of the pro-union people must be at WORK!   (my day off~I work weekends~'tay~)    Pro- union people will be here when they are finished with W-O-R-K.   Too many haters here~every subject.

Hmm

itsnotallaboutu - well you proved my point:  If you are not opposed to SB5 you are a hater.  All these comments are respectful, except man4451's comment about teacher wages.  A person can be in favor of SB5 but still have respect for teachers/police/firefighters, but people will not be open about their opinions, lest they are accused of being a "hater".

Put America 1st

How can you not be nothing but a "hater" Hmm?  You are in support of cutting a fellow working middle class american at the knees from making a living wage to raise their family.  A teacher who is a child first role-model, who is incharge of our future and trust of our children.  A firefighter or a police officer who put their lives on the line everytime they leave their home and love ones.  These public employees dont make extravagant salaries compare to Kasich's staff.

 

The pay extends to 10 positions in Kasich's office, including his chief of staff, Beth Hansen, and Lt. Gov. Mary Taylor's chief of staff, Laura Johnson, slated to make $170,000 and $120,000 a year, respectively. Other top earners include special assistant to the governor Jai Chabria ($145,000), chief legal counsel Mike Grodhaus ($120,000), communications director Scott Milburn ($120,000), policy director Wayne Struble ($120,000), deputy policy director Ben Kanzeg ($115,000) and legislative liaison Matt Carle ($100,000).

 

For someone that claims he wants to cut cost and balance the budget he is running the governership like he did at Lehman Brothers.

Pete

I find it funny when Tax Consumers complain about the Gov's office payroll. Here is a slice from the OEA Payroll:

The OEA pays 102 employees six-figure salaries, including 34 who made more than $120,000 for the fiscal year that ended in August.

The highest paid employee is Executive Director Dennis Reardon, who was paid $176,317, according to the union's annual report on file with the U.S. Department of Labor.

OEA President Patricia Frost-Brooks was paid $172,574, and the union's vice president and treasurer each were paid about $151,400.

http://www.dispatch.com/live/con...

That was back in '08

Wonder what it is now?

 

donutshopguy

 Put America 1st,

Please enlighten us on this "living wage" concept.  Is this an entitlement? Is this a right guaranteed by the Constitution? Is everyone entitled to a specific amount no matter of their education, work ethic or ability? Who decides this amount of this "living wage"? Who pays for this "living wage" ? Is it the private sector or government?

Let's be specific. Maybe I getting shafted. I could be working to hard for my wages and benefits.

Put America 1st

Donutshopguy use common sense and dont try to play the "word" game.  I assume you have a bit of intelligence so google "living wage" and you will get the broad meaning. 

donutshopguy

 Put America 1st,

I didn't use the word, you did.  Just trying to get some clarification. How can we have a meaningful discussion without being specific on this often used phrase?

Pete

SB5 would have been a MUCH simpler bill if it would have just said:

"No City, County, Township, School, Taxing District, or State Agency may collect dues from employees and forward said funds to a union or other labor organization"

Would have accomplished the same thing without all the pages

Put America 1st

So Pete is SB5 about union busting as you mention or saving the state money?  We know where you stand with teachers, police officers, firefighters and other state public workers.

Pete

Would have accomplished both in one fell swoop and saved a lot of paper in the process

Put America 1st

If you DO NOT know what a "living wage"...You should get out of this discussion.  Better yet call a teacher and maybe they can educate you on Economics 101

donutshopguy

 Put America 1st,

Is your interpretation of a "living wage" different from mine? Should I get out of the discussion because our interpretation differ? Maybe they don't but we will never know because you are unwilling to discuss.

Put America 1st

Once again I see VOTERS on this board make outlandish statements, uninformed voters that follow a certain ideology or just against american workers.

 

SB5  law sharply curtails collective bargaining power of teachers and other public union workers, bans strikes and eliminates binding arbitration.  Therefore, Gov. Kasich is trying to cut cost in education on the backs of teacher's salary.  Gov. Kasich first operating budget released in March suggested putting the squeeze on public school education, proposing to cut funding to local school districts by 11.9 percent next fiscal year and another 4.9 percent the year after.  Another fact is states WITHOUT collective bargaining rights have LARGER Debt than Ohio.  Gov. Kasich has given his staff raises while threathening to cut middle class worker wages.  But you got individuals like Man4451, 6079 Smith, Hmmm and other support this approach.  The comment was rasie about Teachers pay under SB5 and the truth of the matter, there is 5 criteria that would go into a teacher's pay.  One of those is "Teacher evaluation" where questionaries and survey from Parents (where education SHOULD start) is a factor.  Teacher are responsibile for discplining children in their classroom but now those kids' can have their revenge thru surveys/questionaries.

Also Gov. Kasich has also eliminate rules that required payment of prevailing wages on public contracts.  These two example of assualts on the working class DO NOT save the state any money however, it shows Gov. Kasich true agenda - bust unions and privatize Ohio at all costs.  I always said it is easier for a company to cut payroll instead of doing the hard work and looking deeper at their books. 

 

The question I have for Gov. Kasich and his right wing supporters is...Where is the JOBS?!?!

 

Perkins2060

Typical Union/Democrat response.  I've learned to ignore these ignorant types.  Either way we win.

Put America 1st

Actually you ignore the truth at the cost of your fellow american. 

Hmm

Maybe I simply think public employees should pay a larger share of their insurance premiums, and that their raises should be based on merit.  How would that make me a hater?  Who said anything about taking away their living wage?

althenaruby

I dont understand how we are taking  wages away from them.  We arent taking wages from them we are just restructuring HOW you get your raise.  And you still get collective bargaining on your wages just not benefits...which guess what... the average person doesnt.

Put America 1st

Althenaruby the SB5 affects pension, health care and wages for future contracts.   It takes away americans right to negotiate fair, liveable compensation.

 

 

Kimo
  Re: Typical Union/Democrat response.  I've learned to ignore these ignorant types.  Either way we win.   When anyone loses a job, we are all affected, no one is immune.   When anyone sees a drop in their disposable income, we are all affected, no one is immune.   When your neighbor loses his/her job, be it city, State, county, village or township, the local economy suffers a loss of disposable income and tax revenue. He/she is forced to cut back on all purchases that are not vital to survival. The pension system loses the income and in some cases it forces an early retirement. We all should be aware that those pension systems are strained.   If you stand back, forget about jealousy, greed, and all the other emotions that fuel this issue, anyone with a minimum of intelligence can see that as you multiply the number of people in this situation it eventually trickles down and forces more cutbacks in all areas and that affects everyone one of us.

 

Pete

Wait though Kimo, I will grant you that there are people who are going to lose jobs because of cutbacks in government spending.

But why is it better to confiscate money from the taxpayers and myself, pass it through the system, then give it to someone else to spend?

If I can save "X%" of my pay through lower taxes, I will either spend that money or invest it. Either way it is being spent. I just cut out the middle tax consumer and the overhead the government expends to confiscate my money

 

goofus

Gee put america last er first, what about wisconsin leading the country in private sector job growth and over in Indiana who governor Daniels suspended collective bargaining earlier is running such a surplus, he gave bonuses to state workers. Do yourself a favor read other things other than the DNC fake talking points.

http://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2011/07/republican-governors-proving-that-conservative-economic-principles-work/

http://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2011/07/wi-announces-largest-gain-since-2003-in-private-sector-jobs/

Put America 1st

What about North Carolina? Arizonia? Nevada? Do me a favor Goofy and switch the channel from FOX to CNN..You missed a very important point in your comment.  Wisconsin was on target to have a surplus prior to Walker's election and without his anti-union bill, the state still would of been in the black.  Next time examine the facts before spewing false stories and half-truths.

goofus

Exactly what we are after Kimo, smaller government and more state rights!!

6079 Smith W

Put America 1st writes:

"Gov. Kasich has given his staff raises while threathening to cut middle class worker wages." 

Thousands of dollars as compared to millions and potentially billions - IOW - apples and oranges.

Besides, it just ain't the wages!

Pure and simple: Public sector employee wages and benefits in addition to the health and welfare retirement structure as it currently exists is unsustainable for every present and future taxpayer of OH.

Overturn SB5 and there must be public sector layoffs or income and property taxes will need to be raised exponentially on every OH taxpayer.

You're asking to sacrifice the private sector for sake of the public sector - who exactly works for whom?

 

Put America 1st

6079 Smith the TRUTH and real reason why our current system is unstainable is due to the number of retirees about to enter the system same as Social Security.  The teacher's pension program was in danger until the State Teachers Retirement System board approved a number of changes to their benefit program in January to save their pensions. 

 

"Thousands of dollars as compared to millions and potentially billions - IOW - apples and oranges"  So saving millions of dollars is no big deal according to you?  Then why are you such a big believer in SB5 when it will not translate into savings for the state.  SB5 is all about union busting and creating a cheaper, less skilled workforce.

 

Last I check, the Ohio Supreme court ruled education funding unconstitutional and we still have not develop a formula that would ease the tax burden on Homeowners while improving our education system. 

Perkins2060

Jealous of a public employee?  LOL!  Now that's a good one!

Pragmatic

 

Re:  Hmm says:  Excellent!  I ditto your comments. I must wonder why people who are accustomed to the union mentality feel they deserve more benefits and pay – compared to so many other workers.  Can we really give those benefits and that pay to every single human being in the workforce?  Can every person in the workforce take three months off from their workplace in the summer on taxpayer (or shareholder) dollars?  It simply cannot happen. There are thousands of frontline employees who work in the non-profit sector who don’t receive those benefits and yet work mighty hard and give so much.  This is true in other industries/occupations too.  I genuinely believe that every job and every person within those jobs are a relevant cog in our Nation’s wheel.  It seems as though people in some occupations place themselves in a higher regard than everyone else. 

 

Re:  Put America 1st:  Are you putting America first, or yourself?  Please note that those of us who support SB5 - - does not necessarily mean we love Gov. Kasich.  I have never favored unions in my personal existence in the workforce. That was way before Gov. Kasich’s time. I think he has more problems than this particular Bill.  It’s offensive that you tell us we are against the American workforce just because we are not advocates of labor unions.  Just because we are anti-union makes us anti-American?  That is one of the most unintelligent comments I have heard so far in this debate.  My non-union environment is providing significantly higher payoffs than a union environment.  I have lived the proof that this works.  I may not get the same extraordinary retirement benefits that teachers and policemen get, but I have control over so many other things in my work life - and in the long run, my personal life.  And yes…I make a very nice living wage which I negotiated on my very own.  How can I be against the American workforce when I am part of it?  You may feel that something is being taken away from you.  But, we cannot make this about you.  It’s much too important.  Ultimately, it may just be a redistribution for the whole working population rather than just affording it all to one group of working people. 

 

We already have a system in place that distributes to one group of people in this Country…it’s called the welfare system.  But, that’s another Dr. Phil show.  We need to consider some type of balance among all of these groups at some point in the near future.  I just hope we have the courage to do it.    

 

Put America 1st

Pragmatic the comment "we are anti-union makes us anti-American" obviously hit a nerve with you.  As you have stated, this has been your mentality for years.  I am glad you are doing well in your employment, able to have a flexible schedule and are happy.  That is the difference between most of the posters on here and myself.  I do not get upset or hate on someone for better their life, community and our country.

 

You know what the problem is Prgmatic...people want law enforcement to protect them, solve crimes and etc.., Firefighters to fight fires, save our love ones and Teachers to teach, nuture and shape into our future leaders.  But no one wants to pay for it!!! What you want is public employees that play a vital part of our lives to get the worst end of the stick.  You know what Prag, you and me are going to get what we paid for.  Highly qualified teachers leaving the state, many other individuals passing up being Firefighters and Police Officers.

 

 

Hmm

The problem is that both sides of the bargaining table benefit from low insurance premiums and generous retirement benefits, and the taxpayer is left out of the negotiation.

Put America 1st

http://edition.cnn.com/2011/OPINION/07/25/avlon.debt.showdown/index.html?hpt=hp_t2

Become an inform voter...

 

@Pete it is said to see an american citizen that has a terrorist's mentality.  Since the Republicans have partial shutdown the FAA, u can get a discounted ticket to China.  Send us a post card on life in China bud.

Pete

@ PA1st

Sorry bro, but your days of living off the backs of the average taxpayer are over. Face it. You're cushy little job is coming to an end

Who knows, maybe you will actually get a real job now instead of just being a burden to society.

I wish you luck!

Marcus M

Put America 1st, do you just make up the facts as you go to fit your far left views?  Wisconsin by the most conservative estimate had a $2.7 billion deficit starting this year, they now have a balanced budget under Governor Walker.

2cents's picture
2cents

 

Hey! Its all about money, cash, cash flow, cash on hand, dollars and cents, dollars to spend, right?   Well as long as all of you people choose to fund China and increase our debt by buying all your widgets made in China, guess what? No US jobs, lower US income and taxe dollars to put in the tax coffers as well.   Go ahead, find that great deal, that cheep / cheap product, imported by a greedy bean counter to be purchased by a greedy buyer! LOL yes all of you want the best deal but guess what?   China has very few laws like the EPA, Workers Comp, Health coverage, and the whole thing, while the average wage is 18 cents and hour.   So you have shopped yourselves, voted yourselves and sued yourselves out of work as well.   Now you wonder why there is no cash to pay the nice salaries, insurance benefits and other benefits that government workers have enjoyed for so long!   Get a life, read a paper, other than the sports section, and go look for a good manufacturing job! Oops! their gone!!!!   Just saying!
KURTje

Put America first 1.                                         Pete  0.

goofus

Why do foolish liberals fail to produce what they assume to be a living wage in dollar signs??? You know PA1st aka Brutis keeps avoiding the dollar signs. P.S. it's indiana that had the surplus.

man4451

SB 5, Senate Bill 5,

GUARANTEED to Raise Your TAXES.

goofus

Gee, I thought all libtards want to pay more taxes, so is there a problem?

8ballinthesidepocket

Before all you brilliant people vote on this, ask yourself two questions.  Where are the unions located?  Where are the jobs located?  They ain't in the same place, so don't cut your throats on this one, the union days are over, they just don't realize it.  The teachers union has ruined the public school systems in this country and we now have an education system that ranks LAST in all the developed countries.  The ship started to sink when the teachers union grew in influence.  SB 5 is just the beginning, next step is to make this a right to work state and hopefully, if it is not too late, to get some decent jobs back here.  Those pickets over at the chain shop are going to need them, because that place is dead, thanks to the union.  Yes, unions were needed at one time in this country, but not now our federal government now has created so many departments and laws they aren't needed anymore.  I would gladly have more unions and less government, but with the LIBS in there, that is not going to happen.

Put America 1st

Who let Charlie Brown's teacher, 8ballinAmericasheart in here..womp womp womp womp wooommpppp. When you have something worth adding to the discussion, raise your hand first before you spew stupidity.  Read some history on Unions.  While you are educating yourself on Economics 101 check out Germany's economy and tell the class why their economy is strong, debt-free and vibrant.

donutshopguy

 Put America 1st,

Where are you? I'm still awaiting our discussion about this "living wage." This phrase has been bantered about by many but when I ask for more specifics no one seems to have an answer. Will you finally be the one to inform us about this mysterious right.

CAST THE FIRST STONE

The truth is schools and teachers do not  make money like a business . So this is where if you say anything about the way things are done YOU DON'T CARE ABOUT THE KIDS. Teachers and their unions deal together to make their deals. Wouldn't it be great to get with my co-workers and decide what i get paid and even if my company is loosing money.  i can just charge my employer more. But wait my employer went belly up. Wish i could just make my nieghbors pay more money so i can keep things the same with my job. Unions did great things in the day. Too bad it was yesteryear.

Put America 1st

Cast he 1st stone I am trying to analyze your comment logically but it is the same ol jealous rant I hear on here all the time.  Your job went belly up for reason unknown to me, obviously you were not union cause u did not recieve a servence package nor the opportunity to flow with your to another state or company.  Guess unions are no longer needed huh? Sounds like you should learn the history of Unions and intergral part of our society in the past, present and future.  You say Unions are not needed but individuals in the State house and COngress would love to turn the clock back on American workers.  The truth is teachers play the most vital role in our nation, educating and nuturing our children to become the next leaders and producers for America.  When people start attacking Police Officers, Firefighters, Teachers, City Civil workers, we let the destruction of America commense.

donutshopguy

Put America 1st,

What do you consider government? Do you consider Police officers, firefighters,teachers and civil service workers part of our government? Do these people fit into your "livng wage" concept? Do we need to protect a lifeguard in Califorina who makes over $100,000 per year? This person is a civil service worker.

Just trying to get a handle on your destruction of America and that "living wage.

Darkhorse

Sorry Put America 1st, but I have to respectfully disagree with you on the usefulness of unions anymore. Fact: Did you know that for every $1.00 of gasoline taxes and license fees for the roads in the city .90 goes for wages and benifits to the union, which leaves us very little to actually resurface the roads. You wonder why the city doesn't fix more streets?. Fact: The city cannot hire part time police officers to help out in the summer for traffic congestion because of the union contract, without having to hire full time officers. Fact: The teachers union in this state is the largest drain on our state budget. Fact: Your dues, if you are a union member, goes to candidates who you may not support and you have no say in this. If you want to talk fat cats take a look at the union heads. What kind of car do THEY drive, or are they taken in a limo. How do they get to Washington, by car, by bus, by train or do they fly. Where do they eat their meals, at a Burger King, a McDonalds, or maybe it is at a fancy restaurant. What is their annual salary and expense accounts. Since the Governor can only control what the government unions get in compensation this does not affect the factory workers or any other private union workers. The only way to make this fair in this State of Ohio is to make this state a RIGHT TO WORK state. Then let's see how many people will actually want to belong to a union. To keep people out of jobs unless they join a union is reprehensible and contributes to the poor class not being able to advance in this system. Read up on the real truth instead of spouting union propaganda.

digger nick
  Wisconsin Proven To Be Correct!   Remember the violent and disgusting demonstrations over Wisconsin Gov. Scott Walker doing away with the collective bargaining for teacher's unions? The results are in. Some school districts went from a $400,000 deficit to a $1,500,000 surplus as a result.   Why? The insurance company that provided all the "so-called" benefits to the teachers, was an insurance company owned and operated by the teacher's union. Since they were guaranteed to get the insurance business from the teachers and the State had to pay for it, and not the teachers, they were increasing the annual costs every single year to become the most expensive insurance company in the state.   Then the insurance company was donating millions and millions of dollars to their favorite democrat politicians, who when they got elected, guaranteed to keep funding the unions outrageous costs. In other words, the insurance company was a "pass through" for Wisconsin taxpayer money directly to the democrat politicians.   Nice racket, and this is the racket that is going on in every single State including Ohio that allows collective bargaining. No wonder the States are taking it away. Now that the State of Wisconsin is free to put the insurance contract out for bid, and lo and behold, they have saved so much money it has turned deficits into surplus amounts. As a result, none of the teachers had to be laid off, everyone got a raise, etc., etc., and the taxpayers of Wisconsin don't have to pay more taxes to fund the union's political ambitions.   If you weren't aware of the reasons why Gov. Walker was fighting to take away collective bargaining, it gives you an idea of the problem the Republican Party has. Outside of one or two, none of them know how to speak up and explain properly what the problem was. We could sure use a Ronald Reagan now, someone who could explain things for people to understand, since we know that people don't like to read anymore.   http://washingtonexaminer.com/politics/2011/06/union-curbs-rescue-wisconsin-school-district
man4451

Compare- Schools & manufacturing use Auto.

If the Auto factory was paid Billions upon billions by tax payers, and paid there employees almost $100.oo per hour and still put out products that broke down off the line, how long would you fund this auto factory?

If a Auto factory put out a product forsale and more than 70 percent broke down coming off the line, how long would the Auto factory stay in business? How about 80 percent break downs, or 50 percent brake downs? What is a good number?

Now if a school, or schools got billions and paid there employees almost $100 per hour and put out a product that 70 percent could only get a minimum wage, why are they still in business?

Better education seems to be for teachers nothing more than larger paychecks. Does not seem to have anything to do with our children.

Should we not have a better grading for our children? Should the schools paying there teachers more than others have a better out product? And how would you grade the schools? 10 percent attorneys 20 percent doctors good 40 percent truck drivers, 30 percent minimum wage workers? Now spending billions, should we have 25 percent attorneys and 50 percent doctors, or equivalent? Shouldn't we as Americans have a higher standards?

Now school teachers or any boards do not wish to make this type of comparisons, it does not work for them.

Hmm

man 4451 there are so many flaws in your post, I don't even know where to start.  And I'm on YOUR side with regards to SB5.  Do you really think we should be shooting for 50% of our population to be doctors, or else teachers are failures?  Many outside factors impact a childs success in the classroom, unlike the auto factorys.  PLEASE stop posting - you are hurting the cause.

Put America 1st

Hmmm I am glad you have help in this discussion lol 

6079 Smith W
"According to the study, states with the largest pension liabilities are California, Illinois, New Jersey, and Ohio. ":   http://www.moremonmouthmusings.net/2011/03/04/state-unfunded-pension-liabilities-exceed-1-trillion/     To think that overturning SB5 will somehow solve the funding problem is union groupthink lunacy.   Almost every state in the U.S. has allowed their public employee unions to fund the politicos who in turn have given them almost carte blanche on wages and benefits.   http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424053111904233404576465003932842770.html?mod=WSJINDIA_hpp_sections_business     Either the public employee wage and benefit funding structures will have to drastically change, or without massive tax increases there will be layoffs – there is no magic.  
6079 Smith W

"Living wage" is socialist gobbledygook - it's nonsense.

 Ever heard of the wage-price spiral?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wag...

As employers pay their workers more in wages, they have to increase the prices of the products and services in order to cover the costs of the increase in wages.

Jeesuz! And we wonder why this country is so @#$% up?

The level of economic and financial education in the U.S. borders on illiteracy.

 

donutshopguy

 Put America 1st,

6079 Smith W calls the "living wage" gobbledgook. Is that true? Why haven't you put forth your definition? I am still waiting. Are we to believe it's gobbledgook? Come on man, stand up for your beliefs.

origen

Lets talk about unions, As the Unions they become actual stockholders in companys (GM) for a example. Same way teachers and police and firefighters are stockholders (its a public utility) in the state government.Who will they strike against? Themselves, being fellow citizens of the state they are holding non-union citizens hostage to their complaints. Same as GM who will the UAW strike against themselves? (they own 40% of the company). When the unions were local and the problems could be handled locally that was a good thing, Now if a member has a greivance they must run it through regional and international to get any action on it, That in most cases does not happen because the national and international are too busy lobbying congress for somthing or other. If you pay your dues like a good union member and they take that money to spend to support a canidate you do not wish to elect isnt that self defeating? The unions supported obama by giving his campaign millions, Now the admin is being pressured by these same unions to allow "illegal immigrants" to have work permits and amnesty to have american jobs. In todays day and age when it is so hard to get a good job isnt that counter productive also, with your union dues no less? In conclusion, unions were once a force that helped its workers get better working conditions,wages and a say in the work place, Today they have become lobbyist that do not really care about the union members in ohio, But would rather work on getting better treatment for people who arent even living in the country so they elect more of the same politicians who have given the unions  "wavers" funding and bailouts.

EZOB

donutshopguy:

          Yes, you gave examples of what many of us condsier to be government workers.  They are some of the people who are suppose to be working for us "Common Folk".  Yet. even though you are working for and paid by us, you have far better retirement, insurance, and benefits than most in the private sector.  This is not jealousy, it's trying to bring everything in perspective.  Like all of government, these workers have reached the point of being totally out of control.  Don't compare teachers to Policemen and firemen.  Teachers get an education and then get a job, most policemen and firemen get their education after being hired and at the taxpayers expense most of the time.

JustMe68

EZOB your statement that policemen and firemen get their education after being hired is completly false.  Both are very competative and tough fields to get into.  Firemen require a paramedics degree and police officers also go to school and get specialized training.  To be a firefighter, say in Huron, it takes the paramedics degree along with a minimum of 3 years volunteer work to even be considered for part time employment.  My son is working toward being a firefighter and he is enrolling at EHOVE.  18 MOS program for paramedics and then he will go to University for a fire science degree while volunteering at the fire department and riding in an ambulance as a paramedic.  If he is very lucky, he may become a full time employee 6 years from now. 

Rude McGootch

I sure do get tired of the comments that "the government" provides a nice, cushy retirement for public workers. I don't know about other States, but in Ohio both the employee and employer contribute to the retirement systems. The Ohio retirement systems are semi-private organizations that receive payroll deductions from both employee and employer and invest it in different ways to fund their constituents retirement. Public employees DO NOT participate in Social Security and do not receive any SS benefits. If those in the private sector would be allowed to deposit their Social Security deductions, along with their employers, into interest bearing accounts like OPERS and STRS do, they would have a much better retirement income also. Thank the Progressives and Liberals for squandering your hard earned Social Security money so that you have to work longer to retire. Also public employees are now required to contribute to Medicare, which they will never use.

Below is what the employee and employer contribute to OPERS.

From their earnable salary, OPERS members currently contribute the following percentage according to their type of employment:

10% for local and state government employees 10% for public safety employees 10.10% for law enforcement employees

The employee contribution rate is the same for each of the OPERS retirement plans.

Employers currently contribute a percentage of a member's earnable salary. Currently, employer contribution rates are:

14% for state government employees 14% for local government employees 17.40% for law enforcement or public safety employees

Regardless of the retirement plan selected by a member, the employer contribution rate is the same for each of the plans. 

The problems we face today are there because the people who work for a
living are outnumbered by those who vote for a living.