Ohio voters will get to decide fate of union law

Ohio voters will get to decide in November whether to repeal the state's new collective bargaining law, which would let public worker unions negotiate wages but not health care, sick time or pension benefits.
Associated Press
Jul 26, 2011

 

Ohio voters will get to decide in November whether to repeal the state's new collective bargaining law, which would let public worker unions negotiate wages but not health care, sick time or pension benefits.

The state's elections chief said Thursday that opponents had gathered enough valid signatures to put the question before voters. The measure is now suspended from taking effect until voters have their say.

The law signed by GOP Gov. John Kasich in late March affects more than 350,000 public workers, including police officers, firefighters, teachers and state employees. Aside from restricting bargaining, it bans strikes and gets rid of automatic pay increases, replacing them with merit raises or performance pay.

The group We Are Ohio delivered more than 1.3 million signatures to Secretary of State Jon Husted, though the opponents needed roughly 231,000 valid signatures to get the question on the ballot. He said more than 915,000 of the signatures were valid.

The opponents' successful campaign proves that the legislation was ''a bad bill that was passed by extreme politicians who are out of touch with hardworking Ohioans,'' said Melissa Fazekas, a spokeswoman for We Are Ohio.

The measure was approved by the Republican-controlled state Legislature in March amid shouts and jeers from protesters in each chamber. But the overall response by protesters in the Rust Belt state, despite its long union tradition among steel and autoworkers, paled in comparison to Wisconsin, where protests topped more than 70,000 people. Ohio's largest Statehouse demonstrations on the measure drew about 8,500 people.

That difference has been attributed to Madison's labor legacy and the proximity of the populous University of Wisconsin campus to the state capital.

The fallout from each state's bitter fights over collective bargaining restrictions have also differed.

Unlike in Wisconsin, Ohio voters cannot recall state lawmakers, so opponents are pushing for repeal through a referendum.

In Wisconsin, nine state senators -- six Republicans and three Democrats -- face recall elections. GOP Gov. Scott Walker's collective bargaining law eventually survived a court challenge and took effect.

A Quinnipiac University poll released this week found that 56 percent of Ohio voters say the new collective bargaining law should be repealed, compared with 32 percent who say it should be kept.

The We Are Ohio campaign says 10,000 volunteers and some paid workers circulated petitions to get the referendum before voters. The coalition of labor groups and others contends the law is an unfair attack on workers.

Kasich, a first-term governor, and his GOP colleagues argue the legislation will help city officials, school superintendents and others control their costs at a time when they, too, are feeling budget woes.

Kasich has said he plans to play a visible role in defending the law. So far, he has directed his supporters to a website for Building a Better Ohio, a group that wants to keep the new law in place.

Jason Mauk, a spokesman for Building a Better Ohio, said Thursday that certification of the signatures puts the focus back on the law's merits.

''Ohio voters now have a choice to make,'' Mauk said in a statement. ''We can keep the unfair, unsustainable policies that are bankrupting our communities, or we can change direction and give them the tools they need to create jobs and get spending under control.''

The referendum's clearance for the ballot came as the head of the AFL-CIO met in Columbus with community organizations, religious groups and representatives from the Ohio Conference of the NAACP.

AFL-CIO President Richard Trumka would not say how much money the nation's largest labor federation planned to spend in the ballot effort, only that the organization planned to devote resources and people to help repeal the law.

''This is a battle of over the conscious and the moral character and the direction of the country,'' Trumka told reporters. ''And we think that the people in Ohio and the people in America think that people like Gov. Kasich is going in the wrong direction -- that he overreached, that he used a tough budget time to try to scapegoat public employees and try to destroy a ladder into the middle class.''

Kasich spokesman Rob Nichols said the law was about restoring fairness and balance between the private and public sector employees.

''Mr. Trumpka does have to live in one of Ohio's cities or towns that are hanging on by their fingers, struggling with high costs,'' Nichols said.

The state's labor groups have turned to their members to help pay for the repeal campaign.

Ohio's largest teachers union in May agreed to a one-time, $54 dues increase. The move by the members of the Ohio Education Association was expected to yield an additional $5.5 million.

The Fraternal Order of Police also anticipated raising $1 million from their roughly 200 local lodges around the state. And the Ohio Association of Professional Firefighters asked its 9,600 members to voluntarily kick in $100 for the repeal effort.

Comments

man4451

SB-5

guaranteed to

raise your taxes

this law has nothing

to do with UAW or

any other unions.

YAWWNN

Right you are man4451, however that hasn't stopped the Unions from spreading misinformation about how this supposedly affects even private sector unions.  The funny thing is that the rank and file union members honestly believe what their union leaders are telling them when in reality this only affects those in public sector unions.  Get ready for huge tax increases if this is repealed.

stepham2009

THIS IS A DEFINITE VICTORY FOR THE WORKING CLASS MAN, OUR TEACHERS, AND ALL THOSE OTHERS IN PRIVATE SECTOR JOBS THAT RELY ON THE UNION TO PROTECT THEIR LIVELIHOOD!!

NEXT LET'S WORK TOGETHER TO STOP KASICH FROM SELLING OUR PRISON SYSTEM TO THE HIGHEST BIDDER AND TAKING THE JOBS OF 100'S OF OTHER WORKERS! AND GET HIM OUT OF OFFICE!

WHEN WE FIGHT TOGETHER WE CAN MAKE A DIFFERENCE FOR EACH OTHER! THOSE OF YOU IN THE PRIVATE SECTOR UNIONS REMEMBER THAT YOUR FELLOW UNION MEMBERS IN THE PRISON SYSTEM HELPED FIGHT YOUR FIGHT, NOW IT'S YOUR TURN TO HELP THEM KEEP THEIR JOBS!!

 

Nor'easter

This Bill has in fact NO Consequences.  All of the government workers unions in our area have already renegotiated their contracts in order to bring their costs within the budgets of local schools, citys and countys. The only areas that could and needs to be reined in by this bill is the big city schools in Cleveland, Akron, Youngstown, Columbus and the other regions that are under investigation for corruption, fraud, and other sundry problems.  SB5 should be upheld and we will begin to see costs reduced in these areas.

tk

No, all of the public sector unions have not all renegotiated their contracts.  The contract at Ohio Veterans Home will expire in the near future.   Looking forward to casting my vote to repeal HB5.  @ Nor'easter, You contradict yourself when you say in your  first sentence that this bill has no consequences and end up saying that we will begin to see cost reduced.

 

mikel

he comes all of the whining again!

either this bill stands and these people keep their jobs OR this bill gets repealed and the layoffs begin.  pick your poison!  the greed of the unions have ruined the working man more than the gov't.

6079 Smith W
Public sector unions are like the Mafia; they strong-arm you into paying them for protection or they ruin your business and mess with your family.   By overturning SB5, voters will be shouting that OH is a union state.   With that proclamation, watch OH's economy go south (literally) as current and prospective businesses and entrepreneurs seek out right to work states to set up shop.   Go ahead; overturn SB5 and watch as a number of negative unintended consequences unfold.   The passage of SB5 was a fight for the middle class taxpayer against the authoritarian tactics of the public sector unions.   A vote to repeal SB5 is simply a vote for higher state and local taxes and fees on each and every business and individual.    
SarahTonin

6079 or 09.85 or whatever says: "Public sector unions are like the Mafia; they strong-arm you into paying them for protection or they ruin your business and mess with your family."

WOLF WOLF WOLF BOO-HOO BOO-HOO WOLF WOLF BOO-HOO.

The obvious reply is that if the workers could trust their bosses (in all cases, public sector or not) there would be no need for union style protection. I don't trust politicians and I don't trust the likes of Henry Ford.

Oh by the Smitty, how much is it costing the Ohio taxpayers for Kaisich, love his little pea-pickin heart, to stay in his own home instead of the governors mansion? Am I not for personal choice? Sure but let him pay for it out of his own pocket, after all it's his choice. That money could be used by the state elsewhere!

Bess

6079-

You let your anger (remember the “dark side”) permeate your writing.  Your first sentence is preposterous.  There is no “strong arm”, no “protection” and the union cannot ruin your business and “ruin your family” really? 

Ironic that many who in earlier SR blogs proclaimed that if the teachers and state employees didn’t like the new Governor’s rules, well they could find work elsewhere.  Now the same circumstance is true when a person applies for a union shop position.  The applicant can clearly go elsewhere for work if he/she doesn’t like the union status.  Chances are pretty good though they are applying at a union shop because the pay and benefits are better.  Of course this is due to collective bargaining done by the union.  “Ruin your business” this is crazy talk because only the owner can do this.  If the owner cannot afford union scale he cannot afford to do business.  Of course in my opinion anyone who wants to own a business should be able to support any employees, current or future, with a living wage or not engage in the business.

YES, I am proud to say - because I believe there is no doubt SB5 will be repealed, that Ohio is a union state.  It is the repeal of SB5 that is a fight for the middle class taxpayer and the unions that gave us all a middle class. 

Your projection of higher taxes is not supported by the facts.  Before SB5 government employees were more than willing during collective bargaining to do their part and take cuts in their contract to support lower state and local revenue.  They were and they will be after SB5 is repealed and with collective bargaining agreements.

myname

Either way the taxpayers will win.  If SB5 is repealed massive cuts and layoffs will happen.  And for all of you Veterans Home workers.  Quit crying.  If you don't like your job, quit and go find another.  I think you should have to be a Veteran to even apply for a job there anyhow. 

Hmm

Sarah, how much IS it costing the taxpayers?  You have an issue with and believe it is costing the taxpayers.  How much?

Kimo
Nor'easter = Member for 7 weeks 5 days Better Ohio org was conceived to promote SB5 about that same time. You work for the propaganda machine? You people claim to want "less government" but insist on "more government" when it suits "your agenda". Any group that will lease a turnpike to pad their own pockets (at the expense of the hard working people that built, run, and support the road), is not to be trusted.
SimpleEnough

I don't think this should be put to a  general vote as we elected the law makers to the state postions and expect them to do what is required to manage the state government and budget.

6079 Smith W

SarahTonin writes:

"How much is it costing the Ohio taxpayers for Kaisich, love his little pea-pickin heart, to stay in his own home instead of the governors mansion?"

Whatever it is, it's obviously not as much as the billions of dollars that public employees are costing state and local taxpayers in wages, benefits and retirement bennies.

(BTW: Teresa Heinz-Kerry didn’t wanna live in that dump, the WH so she told hubby to lose and he obeyed. He knew where his real meal ticket came from. )

Henry Ford? The man's been at room temp. for a while hasn't he? Irrelevant.

Save your "workers of the world unite" nonsense for someone who's ignorant enough to fall for it.

I trust that you'll be voting for every school levy and property tax increase that overturning SB5 is gonna be costing you - and more.

 

Perkins2060

Repeal it and LAY OFF these leaches of society!

Perkins2060

I CAN'T WAIT FOR THE LAY OFFS!

6079 Smith W
@ Bess:   So everything that you learned in life you got from Star Wars? LOL.    Yea, teachers, police and other public employees never strike for higher pay and benefits do they? Reads like a protection racket to me.   "Messin'" with your family - not "ruin." Read it again.    

So you must obviously send regular monetary donations to the state, city and county because you believe that your taxes are too low eh?

Kimo

 

Re: we elected the law makers to the state postions and expect them to do what is required

I vote for the local school board members and pay the real-estate taxes that support the brain factory. I don't need Kasich or anyone else for that matter to tell me what's good for me. Leave me alone.

I use the Ohio Turnpike, pay the fees, and I'm perfectly happy with the way it's run, and the people that run it. I really resent some "elected official" that decides to lease the road, because you people don't want to pay your share of the past bills that "you" have accumulated.

Pay your nmad bills and keep your nose out of my decisions and out of my wallet.

OMG.LOL.WT_

All you anti union people who believe the crock the republicans are pushing need to read Doonesbury today!

http://www.doonesbury.com/strip

 

Amerian Dad

Can someone explain this; why is it that teachers, police, fire fighters and state employees be punished for out greedy politicians' inability to manage money? Its their frivolous spending that got us here.
These pension systems are in place so we have something to live on later in life. The politicians see these large banks and figure they get there hands on this money for a quick fix. What about their wages, their medical, their pensions?
We're asking for fairness.....
Believe it or not......police and fire do not make high scale wages......and if they're not able to bargain contracts, the cities around the state will have them working @ low wages...no quality applicants..you'll have felons applying for jobs!
Pay on merit.......welcome the suck a$$'s and favoritism, w/no arbitration to fight it........ Put it to the vote!

Kimo

 

When I go to a store and see all the young mothers with a couple of rug rats and some dude with his hat turned sideways bopping along behind, I can't help but wonder who is paying for those kids and why isn't "dad" working.

When I see a store full of people that should be working, (they sure as hell all don't work nights), I know who is paying that bill.

Instead of punishing the working people that pay those bills why don't the elected officials work to curb the problem that just keeps multiplying??

How does SB5 solve the " baby machine" issue?

How about we work on the real problems and not "kick that can down the road".

Perkins2060

START THE LAY OFFS NOW! 

eriemom

 Perkins2060: According to your posts, if honest, you live and have children attending school in the Perkins School District. Where should lay offs begin? Who is it that you have an issue with? Could you solve your personal problems without bringing an entire school district to its knees?

That district's employees have made contract consessions, so your problem is not monetary. Where does your anger originate?

Bess

Eriemom-  "There's a storm a commin'"  No really - it's awful dark outside.  It is also pretty dark in this blog.  The mojo we have defeating SB5 has the right wing bloggers angry.  The quote is from Hagrid in Harry Potter. 

The New World Czar

The good news for all of the pro-SB5 constituents is that Trumka is now involving himself.

His presence alone will drive the repeal downward...cannot wait for some private sector cheese to go with the collective public whine.

goofus

Oh No say it aint so liberals !!!!

http://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2011/07/wi-announces-largest-gain-since-2003-in-private-sector-jobs/

Doesn't Wisconsin have a sb 5 clone????

goofus

Another post for your reading pleasure liberals, something you won't see in your media world!!LOL

http://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2011/07/republican-governors-proving-that-conservative-economic-principles-work/

Did anyone know about our bond rating going up??????

Did anybody know Indiana gave state workers a bonus, and they have limited collectivebargaining rights.

Who da thunk!!

pearl

   WHERE IS THE PREVAILING WAGE LAWSUIT ARTICLE AGAINST THE COUNTY COMMISSIONERS?

 

Perkins2060

BEGIN THE LAY OFFS NOW!

myname

I'm not angry I'm happy!  I can't wait till this blows up in your faces and you are all on the unemployment line!  Repeal SB5!  LOL!

Itsntallaboutu

LAY US (THE WORKING CLASS) OFF~GO AHEAD~THEN YOU CAN PAY ALL THE TAXES~NOT JUST PART~I'LL JUST GO ON WELFARE~THEY HAVE IT BETTER THAN ANY PEON STATE WORKER ANYWAY.    GO AHEAD~KEEP PUSHING FOR IT~YOU PEOPLE ARE CLUELESS~INSTEAD OF PICKING ON US WORKERS WHY DON'T YOU PICK ON ALL THE PEOPLE ON WELFARE SUCKING US ALL DRY.   HOW ABOUT MANAGEMENT?  NOW THEY MAKE BIIIIIIIIIIIIG BUCKS.     HOW ABOUT ALL OF THOSE POLITICIANS?  NO JUST SIT AND HOPE FOR MORE LAYOFFS FOR WORKING PEOPLE.    YOU'RE JUST DOWNRIGHT HATEFUL.    YOUR TURN IS RIGHT AROUND THE CORNER.   UNTIL YOUR TURN~YOU CAN SUPPORT ME SINCE YOU WANT ME LAID OFF~I CAN'T PAY ANYMORE TAXES, CAN'T PAY MY BILLS,  CAN'T BUY FOOD~YOU CAN DO IT~I'LL HAVE MY HAND OUT FOR A CHANGE AND SLEEP ALL DAY!

YAWWNN

Go ahead and repeal SB 5, you union idiots are doing nothing more than repealing your union brothers and sisters right into the unemployment line.  Don't say I didn't warn you when the mass layoffs of state government workers begins.

On a side note, it is funny that the Ohio NAACP is in bed with labor on this. Especially since their group tends to defend a group that is vehemently opposed to working. I guess it has more to do with the tax revenue that labor generates to support their freeloading lifestyle. LOL. Strange bedfellows indeed.

mankind716

 when did the NAACP ever "vehemently" or even simply oppose working? If you're referring to black people as a race when you say that rather than the NAACP as an organization then that's pretty low dude 

YAWWNN

Kimo says, "When I go to a store and see all the young mothers with a couple of rug rats and some dude with his hat turned sideways bopping along behind, I can't help but wonder who is paying for those kids and why isn't "dad" working." 
"Instead of punishing the working people that pay those bills why don't the elected officials work to curb the problem that just keeps multiplying??"

OMG!!! I never thought I would say this, but Kimo, I actually agree with you on something.

 

6079 Smith W
Kimo writes:   "Instead of punishing the working people that pay those bills why don't the elected officials work to curb the problem that just keeps multiplying??"   If ya have a minimum of half a brain, the answer is fairly simple:   What the govt. taxes it gets less of, what it subsidizes it gets more of.   Guess what the libs and RINOs have been subsidizing for oh so many decades?   Fiscal accountability - that's what charities and NGOs bring to the table that free spending govt. programs don’t.     -----------------   By the way; to help the "uneducated" (wink, wink): Unionism = socialism = syndicalism.   Read up: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Syndicalism   The way that the public unions have bled the USPS into bankruptcy, they can certainly do for the entire country and the state of OH.   http://www.businessinsider.com/say-goodbye-to-saturday-mail-delivery-postmaster-says-2011-7   Won't it be great when the TSA can unionize???? Yea!   Greece, here we come!!!!  

 

Amerian Dad

Does it dawn on u pro SB5 people that most of all your police and fire contracts have no strike clauses in them already?..... Do you honestly think that if unions are altered for state and municipal personnel, that private sector unions aren't next? That this will help even out the pay differences from state/municipal? Well when all these people's wages are cut, is the cost of living going to be brought down by out politicians.....a NO cuz they can afford to live well off. Be careful, be very careful on what u wish for.......wonder how many of you bloggers are SSI recipients, who are sucking my UNION paid taxes....

6079 Smith W

 @ Amerian Dad:

What's an "Amerian"?

Nope, no sweet govt. handouts here. I personally pay for all my own freight.

Police and fire never have "blue flu" or work slowdowns do they?

 

 

Itsntallaboutu

Other state workers have no strike clause also.    There are alot of other issues that some people here just THINK they know what they are talking abou~`in all reality they have no clue about state workers.    {{waiting for YOUR turn}}}.

mikel

the state is replacing a culvert by my house.  on thursday there were 4 workers and they each has their own vehicle!  thats cost efficient.

JustMe68

My GOD, there are a bunch of sick b*****ds in this word!  Narrow minded, sef centered, greedy pieces of work.  It's people like you and our government that have created this mess.  You call unions greedy and all the while defend a bill that abolishes rights and picks on a group of people that did absolutly nothing to you except serve and protect and teach your children.  This mess is greedy lobbiest, crooked politicians and fellon bankers problem.  Instead of standing up and being a man and punishing those responsibe, you support our leaders decisions to go after a group of innocent people.  I have worked in the business word for nearly 20 years and I know your type.  You are little men in stature and try to make up for your "SIZE" by bullying and harming others.  The only manhood you can count on is when you are taking advantage of someone else.  Go ahead, defend our government, support special interestes and continue feeding off the innocent, see what you get.  I woud gamble that there are more real men than little people in America and their wives are actually productive members of society.  Go get a manicure and message, make sure your wife gets that facelift she needs so despiratey and for God sake, wear a condom when you poke the prostitute.  We hard working, honest and good peope are tired of you leaching, unscrupulous, worthless, crooked, good for nothing but thieving and bullying peons.   You will not live off the sweat of my back and steal and lye to me again.  Do it once, shame on you, do it twice, shame on me.  Repeal SB5, force our Government to be transparant and honest and squash the bugs that are destroying our country. 

Itsntallaboutu

Love your post JUSTME68!   Every word is the truth.   Luckily, it is just the same few here that are just plain hateful and like you said SELF CENTERED AND GREEDY.   Have a great day
JUSTME68   ;)

6079 Smith W

OH employment numbers:

"Over the past 12 months, nonagricultural wage and salary employment advanced 72,400. Service-providing industries added 61,800 jobs. The most significant gains occurred in educational and health services (+33,200), leisure and hospitality (+25,100), and professional and business services (+17,300). Trade, transportation, and utilities (+6,200), other services (+4,700), and financial activities (+1,300) also experienced growth. Government declined 25,500."

http://jfs.ohio.gov/RELEASES/unemp/201107/unemppressrelease.asp

About the only way that this state and country is gonna climb out of this economic malaise is to add productive taxpayin'  private sector jobs and shed far more non-essential public sector positions.

We're headed in the right direction.

 

It's also way past time to scrap the public sector's overly expensive and out-of-date defined benefit retirement plans in favor of 401(k) type defined contribution plans; make them help fund the the majority of their retirement like many do in the private sector.

 

 

eriemom

 Justme: I think you are right. I have noticed the same thing over the years. Short men have a chip on their shoulders and nasty attitudes. Even if not short in stature, some body part is short.

Edwin Ison

 I wonder at the ignorance of the anti-union crowd..... they act as if the "union" dictates terms and conditions.

 

This could not be farther from the truth..... isn't there an opposing force opposite the union during negotiations?

 

What does "negotiate a contract" mean?

 

I think the politicians and anti-union folks should take a hard look at the representation they have employed to negotiate contracts to provide public services.

 

The easy way out is to villanize and cheat the public workers... rather than scrutinize and fix the highly paid administrators and bosses who signed off on these contracts.

 

Anyone who thinks the "union" just walks in and has a list of demands, and all are accepted with no concessions have obviously never sat at the table!

 

 

Darwin's choice

Remember this??

MARCH 2006 --- SEN OBAMA (D) FROM CHICAGO IL SPEAKS OUT:

"The fact that we are here today to debate raising America's debt limit is a sign of leadership failure,

It is a sign that the U.S. government can't pay its own bills.

It is a sign that we now depend on ongoing financial assistance from foreign countries to finance our government's ---- reckless fiscal policies. ...

Increasing America's debt weakens us domestically and intern ationally.

Leadership means that 'the buck stops here.' Instead, Washington is shifting the burden of bad choices today onto the backs of our children and grandchildren.

America has a debt problem and a failure of leadership.

Americans deserve better."

-- Barack Hussein Obama

 

trafficman

I was just wondering how many of you public union hating people were driving around town yesterday and today during the storms and had trouble getting around because of malfunctioning traffic lights, downed trees, and flooded streets? Who do you think took care of these problems? Certainly not a bunch of ignorant, uneducated, lazy public employees who are just collecting FAT paychecks, but highly trained and dedicated city employees that care about the city they work in and for!

Just to set the record straight (again), I pay a portion of my health care cost, pay into PERS just like private sector employees pay into SSI, forgave raises in our last contract, pay into deferred comp( like a 401k) without an employer match of any kind, and purchase Aflac on my own ( I never had to do that when I worked private sector and had short term disability included in my insurance coverage).

I am just trying to point out that public sector employees dont have it any better than most hard working private sector employees, and having worked in both, I feel that I am qualified to say this.

 

Itsntallaboutu

 

AMEN~TRAFFICMAN!    {{{psssst ~ they still won't "get it" }}}  ;)

BW1's picture
BW1

Edwin Ison:I think the politicians and anti-union folks should take a hard look at the representation they have employed to negotiate contracts to provide public services.

This statement implies that the management representatives failed in their duty to protect the taxpayers' interests, which further means that you think the resulting contract is overly generous, and thus, that collective bargaining effectively gets the employees more than they deserve, and shafts the taxpayers.  

That said, the issue of whether the negotiating process is unfairly biased toward the union, or whether public officials just cave, really doesn't matter - all that matters is that, one way or the other, collective bargaining screws the taxpayers.  If you're right about the moot details, then without collective bargaining, those same public officials will just offer sweetheart terms upfront, without the cover of trying to avoid a strike, and they'll have to own those decisions at election time.

Works for me.

Edwin Ison

 BW1,

It's not the process that "screws" the taxpayer, (if you believe that propaganda :), it is the so-called leaders that the taxpayers have chosen to negotiate with their workers.... the real WASTE is not to be found at the common public worker bee.

So instead of holding the highly paid administrators, managers, county commisioners and politicians accountable.... the previously mentioned take care of their own and villianize the common worker to deflect from their shortcomings.

So if you support union busting and the issue prevails.... you still have the highly paid, substandard "leaders" at the helm... who will continue run up debt and mismanage.

Kasich is simply repaying personal debts and taking care of his wealthy business interests with this and other legislation.... and so many of the middle class are too far right to see it.

Your reply reminds me of the Ostrich myth lol.

Captain Gutz

Edwin,

"the real WASTE is not to be found at the common public worker bee."

Never been to the license bureau, have you?

Itsntallaboutu

People at the license bureau are paid about minimum wage if not minimum~not much more.    Ask them.   I really don't think they are the cause for this country being in the shape it's in.

BW1's picture
BW1

trafficman: Certainly not a bunch of ignorant, uneducated, lazy public employees who are just collecting FAT paychecks, but highly trained and dedicated city employees that care about the city they work in and for!

No doubt.  However, why then can't they do what 80% of the private sector does - Let each and every one of them stand on his/her INDIVIDUAL merit.  

Just to set the record straight (again), I pay a portion of my health care cost, pay into PERS just like private sector employees pay into SSI, forgave raises in our last contract, pay into deferred comp( like a 401k) without an employer match of any kind, and purchase Aflac on my own

Great.  The difference is, IF you and your colleagues decide that's not good enough, you get together, under your pre-arranged agreement NOT to compete (that's what a union is) and threaten to shut down the whole agency with a strike. For 80% of the private sector, if THEY don't like the deal they're getting, they update their resume, and compete for a better deal in the marketplace, as individuals.  When unions think they deserve more, they extort it with threats of strikes; when someone in the other 80% of the workforce thinks they deserve more, they prove it by finding someone out there willing to pay them more, uncoerced.

rationalj

Capitalism created detroit and entirely new economies in surrounding states like northern Ohio. Socialism and the special interests of labor unions gained political force and thus destroyed it. Look at history. The present abounds 

althenaruby

Labor Unions were created to stop the employers from taking advantage of the workers, which is awesome.... But now we have the government to do that.  They set up  a min. wage and other limitations on what the employer can or cannot do it.  Labor unions are no longer needed.  Now they are just a form of favoritism.  The average worker could not demand a higher wage or ect from their boss, but if they are unhappy they have the choice to go somewhere else....it should be the same for everyone

The New World Czar

The Kasich administration is doing what the predecessors wouldn't...making tough decisions to balance the budget and make this a commerce-friendly state.

If the issue to repeal SB5 fails, then what...try and go to court for a repeal? Whine, whine, whine.

 

Edwin Ison

 Hey gutz!

 

Deputy Registrars are independent contractors and are selected on a competitive basis as described in the Ohio Administrative Code and RFP.

 

Privatization! How's that working for ya'? lmao!

 

6079 Smith W

MI recently scrapped expensive defined benefit plans for new hires and put in their place defined contribution 401(k) type plans and are saving billions in unfunded pension liability projections:

http://www.businessinsider.com/michigans-switch-to-401k-public-pensions-saved-43-billion-2011-7

OH needs to do likewise.

 

Itsntallaboutu

{{{psssst!   Told you they wouldn't get it TRAFFICMAN~~~~~~~~~~they're clueless.}}}

JustMe68

Like it or not, I call it as I see it!!  The grotesque amount of corruption in our government today is the root of most of our econimical issues.  As usuall, instead of standing up and taking responsibility, our lawmakers create smoke and mirrors to compensate and throw off track the real issues and in turn we suffer financially and collectively as a nation.  Unison is the only real power we citizens have and with bills like sb5 and budget issues, our government aims to divide iits people.  I pray today for my American bretheren to unite around the nation as one, to come together and solve the issues that divide and to make our nation great again.  If left to the few elected individuals with individual interests and self serving agendas,  our country willl continue to decline.  Our soldiers have and continue to win wars, united.   We must come together and fight the very system that created this mess in the first place.  If we bandaid the situation and never solve the problem, we as a nation, will never prosper again.  SB5 and budget issues are'nt the real issues that need fixing, it's the greed and corruption that are seething in our bankers, politicians, llobbiest's and big oil.  Those monsters will never be satisfied.  To them money is power and they won't stop until they have every red cent.  Please join as a nation and balance the power of wealth, starting with the rich and powerful, not our teachers and police officers.  Pick on the offenders and spare the innocent, if you dare be man enough. 

6079 Smith W

Back in Apr. 2010 at the state capital, IL public employees shouted:

"Raise my taxes! Raise my taxes! Raise my taxes!"

Democrat Gov. Quinn and the legislature complied with a 66% individual income tax increase. 

Do you hear it or are you deaf?

By suggesting that voters should overturn SB5, OH public sector union employees and their cronies are yelling:

Raise their taxes! Raise their taxes! Raise their taxes!

http://theblogprof.blogspot.com/2010/04/public-unions-protest-in-illinois-give.html

 

 

BW1's picture
BW1

Edwin Ison:It's not the process that "screws" the taxpayer, (if you believe that propaganda :), it is the so-called leaders that the taxpayers have chosen to negotiate with their workers...

Edwin, you're not getting it.  If you are arguing about who or what is screwing the taxpayers, then you're stipulating that they are getting screwed.  If the screwing is because the "leaders" are not doing a good job of negotiating, then it's STILL a function of the process, because without the process, they wouldn't be negotiating, they'd simply be dictating the compensation.  If they dictate a rate that screws the taxpayer, they have to own that decision - they can't say "I had no choice, they were going to strike" - they have no cover for their decisions.  

And no, it's not the salaries of the leaders that is causing the problem.  The "leaders" as you call them are so few that their compensation can't significantly impact the burden on taxpayers.  In fact, neither do the wages of the "worker bees" - the real problem is the defined benefit retirement that has the taxpayers assume ALL the risk.

Like I told trafficman, if they're all so stellar, then let them stand as individuals on their merit, like the majority of American workers.  

 

Edwin Ison

BW1

First of all, I don't think taxpayers are getting the "screws", you do... your word.

Do you even realize that the pension funds are controlled by your elected state lawmakers?

Do you know that the five pension funds have made recommendations to your elected state lawmakers to keep the funds viable.... including increasing employee contribution, decreasing benefits and increasing service time and retirement ages?

When you factor in disability benefits, the five public pensions are not the problem you accuse them of being.

Kasich is simply paying off debts to his wealthy friends.

Where did Kasich work again.... before the governer gig?

SERS

Average of all service retirees in FY2010:

74.7 years old $923 monthly pension

 

Average new retiree in FY2010:

64.0 years old 23.5 years of service $29,644 Final Average Salary $1,159 monthly pension

 

 

Itsntallaboutu

You can be the BEST worker and your boss just doesn't like you for whatever reason~then what?   Lose your job because you have an a$$ of a boss?   That's right!  And who will protect you?   MANY idiots for so called "bosses" out there.    What about the management that get their pockets lined for just doing away with a peon because it WILL line THEIR pocket~then what?   Its happening~many GOOD workers losing their jobs just "because".

Centauri

http://www.portclintonnewsherald.com/article/20110723/NEWS01/107230301/Workers-county-plan-retire-rehired?odyssey=tab|topnews|text|FRONTPAGE

PORT CLINTON -- Ottawa County Sanitary Engineer Kelly Frey and his administrator, Gino Monaco, plan to retire later this year and be rehired by the county.

Frey currently earns $71,435 and Monaco $57,705, according to Ottawa County Auditor's Office reports. In addition, even though both are salaried, hours over 40 each week are compensated at the rates of $40.82 and $36.99, respectively.

Both employees receive retirement contributions from the county at a rate of about 14 percent of gross wages.

From 2008 to 2010, the county contributed about $30,000 to Frey's retirement and $24,000 to Monaco's, according to the records. In 2008, the pair grossed $115,010 and $87,052, respectively.

This practice needs to stop. From 2008 to 2010, the county contributed about $30,000 to Frey's retirement and $24,000 to Monaco's, according to the records.

Correction. From 2008 to 2010, the taxpayers contributed about $30,000 to Frey's retirement and $24,000 to Monaco's, according to the records.

Centauri
Edwin Ison

 You can't blame the union for those two... not union workers... their salaries are set by the county's elected commissioners. Nice try though.

You say this must be stopped... as simple as electing commisioners who will pay these guys what you think they are worth....haha :)

Funny thing is, these do nothing administrators will still be able to be paid these wages... the union does not negotiate on their behalf, while the guys who actually DO the work will get screwed.

When is the last time you heard of a union worker bee retiring, then double dipping in the same job? Rarely if ever... yet the do nothing bosses double dip all the time... sometimes twice over... yeah, lets get rid of the unions! lol!

Brilliant!

Captain Gutz

Edwin,

My mistake. In my haste I typed the wrong thing, I'll try again:

"the real WASTE is not to be found at the common public worker bee."

 

Never been to the Title Agency, have you?

Edwin Ison

 Gutz.... simple!

 

Elect a new clerk of courts!

 

What's the union got to do with it?

digger nick
  Wisconsin Proven To Be Correct!   Remember the violent and disgusting demonstrations over Wisconsin Gov. Scott Walker doing away with the collective bargaining for teacher's unions? The results are in. Some school districts went from a $400,000 deficit to a $1,500,000 surplus as a result.   Why? The insurance company that provided all the "so-called" benefits to the teachers, was an insurance company owned and operated by the teacher's union. Since they were guaranteed to get the insurance business from the teachers and the State had to pay for it, and not the teachers, they were increasing the annual costs every single year to become the most expensive insurance company in the state.   Then the insurance company was donating millions and millions of dollars to their favorite democrat politicians, who when they got elected, guaranteed to keep funding the unions outrageous costs. In other words, the insurance company was a "pass through" for Wisconsin taxpayer money directly to the democrat politicians.   Nice racket, and this is the racket that is going on in every single State including Ohio that allows collective bargaining. No wonder the States are taking it away. Now that the State of Wisconsin is free to put the insurance contract out for bid, and lo and behold, they have saved so much money it has turned deficits into surplus amounts. As a result, none of the teachers had to be laid off, everyone got a raise, etc., etc., and the taxpayers of Wisconsin don't have to pay more taxes to fund the union's political ambitions.   If you weren't aware of the reasons why Gov. Walker was fighting to take away collective bargaining, it gives you an idea of the problem the Republican Party has. Outside of one or two, none of them know how to speak up and explain properly what the problem was. We could sure use a Ronald Reagan now, someone who could explain things for people to understand, since we know that people don't like to read anymore.   http://washingtonexaminer.com/politics/2011/06/union-curbs-rescue-wisconsin-school-district