2012 Sandusky murders double state average

For such a small community, a year marred with seven homicides does more than raise an eyebrow.
Jessica Cuffman
Dec 20, 2012

 

It calls for an examination of violent crime and it's causes, and whether steps can be taken to prevent it. There is no pattern or obvious explanation for so many deaths during the past six months in Sandusky, officials say.

But there is one link. All the victims appear to have known their attackers.

Pick up a copy of Thursday's Sandusky Register to see what local officials have to say about the increased number of homicides in contrast to decreasing instances of gang violence.
 

Comments

car 54

Sandusky has went through many resident changes. Saftey of Sandusky is now a huge issue. We are losing neighborhoods out of fear of crime and drugs. Perception is reality.

KnuckleDragger

Right you are, in less than 20 yrs it has went from a working class community with owner occupied homes that took pride in their neighborhoods and took care of each other...to an entitlement community where the majority of residences are rentals, 85% of children are eligible for free and reduced school lunches, and people only care about their own selfish pursuits and taking from others. Yup, there is a problem in Sandusky, but the problem has more to do with cultural changes than anything else. No longer is Sandusky's culture synonymous with hard work and caring, it is now a culture of entitlement and violence.

onegirlarmy

sad...but true

DGMutley

Knuckle,

Actually, 20 years ago, in 1992, Sandusky had 202 violent crimes as compared to 120 in 2011. The violent crime definition includes murder and nonnegligent manslaughter, forcible rape, robbery, and aggravated assault.

KnuckleDragger

The article was about murder, which is what I was commenting on. Keep in mind, those statistics are only as good as the people reporting them. My buddy, who is a Sandusky cop told me that they don't report original charges for the above that were plead down to a lesser offense, so the numbers are padded. Back in the 80s-90s they reported based on the original charges, hence the disparity in the numbers.

DGMutley

It is hard to believe that charges dropped, dismissed, not proven, or pleaded down would be reported as crimes committed.

If we are talking murder though, in 1988, 2; 1989, 0; 1990, 4; 1991, 2; 1992, 4; 1993, 3; 1994, 3.
In the last 7 seven years, in 2011, 1; 2010, 0; 2009, 0; 2008, 1; 2007, 1; 2006, 0; 2005, 1.

In seven years starting in 1988 there were 18 murders and in the last 7 years there were 4.

That is a considerable difference especially for a community that is supposedly decaying. It looks like the other way around.

huronguy

Moderators have removed this comment because it contained Remarks that discriminate based on age, race, religion, disability, etc..

deertracker

Moderators have removed this comment because it contained Personal attacks (including: name calling, presumption of guilt or guilt by association, insensitivity, or picking fights) and Remarks that discriminate based on age, race, religion, disability, etc..

DriaDria26

Not even wasting my time on this comment. Removed my own post

KnuckleDragger

Yeah, I wouldn't bother, it'll just get him posting more ignorant crap. I had a friend once that made comments like that all the time. I told him to do a little research into his family tree. Come to find out, he had a great great grandfather that fathered several children with a slave, one being his great grandmother. I haven't heard a racist comment from him ever since. LOL

DriaDria26

!

onegirlarmy

right!!!! ingnorant people!

Lisa Wobser

How many more people have to die before the community/society can just accept that this world is filled with crazy dangerous people out there and that guns, when placed in the proper hands can greatly aid in the decline of all these senseless mayhem's!
All these stories were such tragedies, yet it didn’t have to be. Weapons are easy to get now and these days, Nevertheless, an officer of the law and all the judges should be attempting to stop all the violence by making it more difficult to obtain a firearm and if caught with any kind of weapon they should be treated with a very harsh punishment brought to them then maybe this will discourage those crazy attackers/killers intent on being so violent.

Remember: Criminals LOVE unarmed victims, and TYRANTS love UNARMED CITIZENS!!

dontcare

all criminals started out as non-criminals...so yea, I agree give them all guns.

Fromthe419

What are you trying to say, ban all guns because everyone started out as non-criminals. Curtis Clinton used his hands, so ban all hands?

shucks

Wow!

KnuckleDragger

Yup, in fact most of the murders in Sandusky this year were committed without a gun.

dontcare

Yea, same exact thing.

reporter54

I would imagine law enforcement is always on the lookout for criminals with weapons and is always attempting to stop violence. The threat of punishment does not deter most people, crazy or not. Police don't make the laws, they enforce them. It has already been made more difficult for people to obtain firearms but just like restraining orders, laws don't stop lunatics from committing heinous crimes. Many more people will die no matter how many new laws are instituted. Mental illness needs addressed as well. There are no programs or much help for people with various conditions and if they can't get a gun to kill you with, they will find something else. It's a complicated problem which will not be solved in these forums.

deertracker

Relax!! Three of the murders were domestic in nature and really have no relation to one's economic status. Where they lived or whether they rented or owned was not a factor either. I highly doubt any of the accused were receivng gov't assistance and even if they were there is no proven connection. Last week's events prove that crime can happen anywhere. When will the fortunate among us realize this? America embraces a culture of violence so why the shock?

BEHAPPY

Blame the SLUMLORDS of this once nice town! They sure made a mess

Restless1

Removed my own comment.

gene44870

I know why there is so many killings in Sandusky had to cut bak on police a few years ago cause the city council said that if the city did not approve a tax levy then thay would make cuts in police leaving us defenseless .
we need to get the police roster back up where itneeds to be so it will deter crime and ensure the safety of the people thzt pay taxes .
it really makes me mad that a council that is voted in are lsft high and dry to fin a way to servive
Its time to get things where they belong and stop this cat and mouse game with the people that gave you the job

Fromthe419

You bring up a good point about levies needing passed to generate more funds for the police department, however are the current tenants of the speculated 85 percent of those renting apartments/homes willing to see their rent go up? If property taxes go up on landowners they are going to pass this added expense to their tenants. If this happens then METRO will go up accordingly and it will be like a double tax to those that are landowners and vote for it. We all have to realize our country is at a tipping point, our country is broke, the states are broke, the cities are broke and a good percentage of our citizens are broke. Until we bring back our manufacturing base and stop saying the we are now a service economy things will not change. Unless you make something you can not only sell to the guy down the street but to someone in Belgium, China, Ukraine, or anywhere for that matter we are going to be a nation in decline. We need our President, Congress and our Chamber of Commerce to work together to bring REAL jobs back to America, until that happens we are what we are and we will continue to see the decline in the economics and morals and the rise in crime

KnuckleDragger

You could have a Police force of 1000 in Sandusky and it wouldn't help. The judicial system keeps giving them a slap on the wrist and puts them back on the street.

Gunner10

It has nothing to do with guns, how easy they are to get on the street. I believe some of them were stabbed, stragled, and beaten. But what about our law enforcement trying to keep the laws that have been set. Instead of patting them on the back for the hard work and dedication that they do on a DAILY basis they get drug through the mud for one reason or another. I'm not saying they are above the law. (dont get going on the Perkins police officer that made a mistake) We need to stick by them, not when one passes in the line of duty either!! They are the ones protecting our homes when we are aleep at night or at work during the daytime. Trying to keep the drugs off the streets so it doesn't fall into the hands of maybe YOUR little ones! Trying to keep it safe, so you can take your kids to the park to play and don't have to worry that someone might abduct them when you turn your back for one second!
Then we get the front of the paper stories such as... the cops are to blame b/c they were the first to arrive and they didn't do their jobs properly. Or the so called "Pitbull" who just making a trafic stop has to speed through town doing 80mph catching these "runners" in someones driveway! Does it STINK when your speeding and you get a ticket... heck YES! But what if that person is speeding through your neighborhood and kills a kid because they might have sped up while they were texting and driving!
We need to support them, thats how some of this violence is going to stop is when the bad guys know that we support our Men in Blue!

Just my Opinion

BEHAPPY

Totally agree

onegirlarmy

alot of smart & then not so smart people here.
R.I.H. babies.God look over Sandusky Ohio.

donutshopguy

Our moral compass is broken. There is less value of life. We have lost personal responsibility. The downward spiral in cities like Sandusky are growing daily.

If you follow history we are proceeding down the path of other great civilization like the Romans. Moral decay will bring us down. It's just a matter of time. God help our children.

Julie R.

I can't wait to see how many plea bargains come out these horrific murders.

I personally think that a good share of the problems in Sandusky are a direct result of all the rental properties. Didn't somebody say Sandusky is up to 75% rentals? Who owns all those rental properties, anyway? Obviously, there must be good money in it. Do they ever screen some of the riff-raff they rent to .... or do they just not care as long as they get their money?

Also, Sandusky shouldn't feel too bad about all the rentals because Huron sure is getting up there, too.

richrs

Julie

I've said it before. They all will get pled out. It costs to much to take them to trial.

Julie R.

richrs:

Your courts sure have enough money when it comes to those illegal scams they are well-known for. They have enough money for those old rent-a-judges they forever use, too. In other words, they sure have enough money when it comes to their own personal agendas .... but it cost too much money to actually do the jobs they are being paid to do?

If I were really ignorant now I would believe that ..... only I'm not ignorant.

wiredmama222

I think Donutshopguy has it partially right. The moral compass of some are broken. Moral value starts in the home. You want the madness to stop, start to fix the problem by addressing it in the home. Reach the kids who do these crimes BEFORE they do them by insilling some values at the right ages. Teach them respect and responsibility.

For those over the age you can reach, show them that there are consequences for their actions. Right now, most already know they won't have to spend much time in jail as that decision has been made. The judges have been told to redress their time to county jail because of over-crowding, so they have no fear. I feel sorry for the cops.

Yes to those of you who say we need more police. We do. Perhaps more so than fixing the streets as much or worrying about the Pavilion or docking of boats or our shoreline. Who wants to come here with all this crime anyway?

This society is sadly lacking in work, FROMTHE419 is very correct in his statements as well. No work, no food and money. The very root of why people commit crimes in the first place.

Then there is mental health causes and gun control. Huge issues that will take awhile to sort out. They have always been with us.

We have been so complacent all these years, just sitting back watching others go through this, not REALLY caring until a terrible tragedy took two children and a mother. It brought us out of our ambivolence and shook us all. Then another child died and another and an adult. Suddenly we are innudated with death.

Now we finally see we are like any other American City with crime. For the first time we see and we are scared. This is why we need our police protection, police patrols and kids who RESPECT them out there. Maybe the new chief of police will make that happen and the commissioners best cooperate with that. It is their responsibility to do so, without argument or debate.

Let the police do their jobs and make darn sure the kids know they MUST respect the cops who do their jobs. How often after a tragedy do we see family members second guessing the police jobs, especially when they were not even there? That just itsn't fair or right. Its about time we supported the police, not downed them at every turn. When the new chief takes over I suggest we do just that if it is warranted. I hope he does a better job than what we have been seeing, but I have faith.

I also wish parents would do THEIR jobs and raise their children.

I wish they would go back to that announcement on TV as well: "Its 10 o'clock....do you know where YOUR children are?"

Julie R.

I agree that the moral compass is broken but why not look at the whole picture? Not even your own courts have any morals or respect for the law so how can one expect others to? I also don't agree that the problems in Sandusky can be miraculously resolved by hiring more police. Neither do I agree that the city commissioners should bury their heads in the sand and never question anything.

2cents's picture
2cents
2cents's picture
2cents
G George I du kno

Wiredmama that was a great post but may be unrealistic. We do need more cops but the best statement was "let the cops do thier jobs". The problem with this town is these cops are ridiculed for every little thing they do. They have to hold hands and kiss peoples rear ends so they don't offend anyone. They can't tell people how it is because everyone thinks they are entitled to things they shouldn't be.

Until there is a Polcie chief with a back bone to stand up to people and back their men in the jobs they do, nothing will ever change. To many cops are afraid to do what needs to be done because they will be Monday morning quarterbacked! This town needs a firm hand behind the law not some community oriented police department.

As far as kids respecting the cops that will never happen here. The majority of them have no supervision, they don't respect their teachers, their parents, or anyone else. They want to grow up to be thugs just like their parents, aunts, and uncles.

The NAACP always wants to criticize the police and accuse them of racial profiling. Why don't they come out and stand on the corners near the schools when they let out and talk to these future thugs about changing their lives and becoming productive members of society. Focus their efforts on mentoring programs at the schools for these trouble youth. Preachers who preach on Sunday can find time to come out and stand on the corners and show these kids there are people who care about them. But no one will do any of this. I have spoken to youth for years and been involved in youth programs but only a few can't change the community as a whole.

Instead of field trips to colleges or historical sites our kids need to visit prisons. They need to see and talk to some of these guys who are on death row and will never see the outside again. Bring some people in who have been to prison and changed their lives on the outside. Let them hear and see what some of these people have to say. Even if it changes one kids path it is all well worth it!

Many of the young men in this community have grown up watching their male role models be abusive toward women. After years of this modeling they think it is ok to do the same thing. We need to teach them it is not ok and the only place to do this is in the schools. They need to have classes on domestic violence and how to control anger and aggression. The girls need to know it's not ok to be a victim and how to handle it if they are. They just need to be taught how to stop before it's too late.

We will not change the community tomorrow, next week, or next year. We have to start with kids at an age that can still be influenced. The results for the work we put in today won't be seen for years to come.

I feel sorry for each of these victims and their families and pray that they can find peace. For the offenders I pray for their families and their souls as well. I pray for this community that God can lead us to a place where we can co-exist in peace.

wiredmama222

I understand EXACTLY what you are saying and totally agree with you. Some of them need to go to the funeral homes and see a body being prepared for a funeral. You want to see them scared straight? That should do it for some. They think they are all big and bad, show them the end results of knifing fighting to solve a problem, or a gun fight. Oh, yes, nothing like reality tv. Let them watch a few sessions of AUTOPSY. That will do it. And yes, they should talk to them around sixth grade and have meetings in schools with these kids or on street corners. Where are the clergy?

Great post, I agree with every word. Kate

DGMutley

G George I du kno Says, "... UNTIL THERE IS A POLCIE CHIEF WITH A BACK BONE TO STAND UP TO PEOPLE AND BACK THEIR MEN IN THE JOBS THEY DO, NOTHING WILL EVER CHANGE. TO MANY COPS ARE AFRAID TO DO WHAT NEEDS TO BE DONE BECAUSE THEY WILL BE MONDAY MORNING QUARTERBACKED! THIS TOWN NEEDS A FIRM HAND BEHIND THE LAW NOT SOME COMMUNITY ORIENTED POLICE DEPARTMENT."

I pay fairly close attention to the news, but I guess I've missed where Chief Lang has no back bone and doesn't stand up for his men. I missed, also, where too many cops are afraid to do what needs to be done--what is that about?

G George I du kno goes on to say, "AS FAR AS KIDS RESPECTING THE COPS THAT WILL NEVER HAPPEN HERE. THE MAJORITY OF THEM HAVE NO SUPERVISION, THEY DON'T RESPECT THEIR TEACHERS, THEIR PARENTS, OR ANYONE ELSE. THEY WANT TO GROW UP TO BE THUGS JUST LIKE THEIR PARENTS, AUNTS, AND UNCLES."

In all due respect George, that is a pretty biased statement, don't ya think? I know 15 percent of the Class of 2012 didn't graduate, but that's hardly a majority and then again that doesn't mean they have no respect.

G George I du kno continues, "THE NAACP ALWAYS WANTS TO CRITICIZE THE POLICE AND ACCUSE THEM OF RACIAL PROFILING. WHY DON'T THEY COME OUT AND STAND ON THE CORNERS NEAR THE SCHOOLS WHEN THEY LET OUT AND TALK TO THESE FUTURE THUGS ABOUT CHANGING THEIR LIVES AND BECOMING PRODUCTIVE MEMBERS OF SOCIETY. ..."

Just because a few blacks are bad actors doesn’t mean that all blacks are bad actors. Just as a few whites that are bad actors doesn’t make all whites bad actors.

All in all, George, your message is very disrespectful.

G George I du kno

Not having respect has nothing to do with graduating. 15% who didn't graduate is a horrible statistic and far from something to be proud of. That means 150 out of 1000 dont graduate, 15 out of every 100 don't graduate, 1.5 out of every 10 don't graduate. Look at the surrounding schools in the area. Given the same number of students I bet less than 5% didn't graduate.

The majority of the gang banging punks in this town are from Sandusky! They are punks with no respect for themselves or anyone else. They have no supervision and they run the streets all night being punks. Then they grow up to be murdering punks. Both white and black punks in this town!!!

I never said anything or pointed any fingers at blacks! I agree there are whites that are just as bad. The NAACP is an organization that can get through to some of these troubled kids that are black. Whites don't have organizations to represent them and influence their youth. Prison populations are filled with mostly blacks. The Sandusky population is 75% white, 21% blacks, and 4% other. Our jail is mostly blacks. I didn't just say the NAACP I also included clergy who could be out there. I suppose that is racist also since most of the clergy in this town are white males. I guess I better quit picking on the whites also. It wasn't meant to be a race thing but that's what you made it.

And as far as the PD goes if you go down there and file a complaint against an officer he will be labeled a problem officer. We need more pittbull cops and less gas wasting, lazy, pay check collecting, cops who are afraid to get some dust on their uniform.

Mutely, it's people like you who are the problem in this town. U Want to blame everyone else for the problems, provide excuses and no solutions, and call everything a race issue! This town is full of white and black punks and I am not afraid to say it. If we don't get some control of these white and black punks this town will never change.

DGMutley

Sorry G George I du kno but I'm not going to let you insult Chief Lang, the SPD officers, the students at SHS, the NAACP, and blacks without making a comment. If you consider yourself a credit to society, you aren't.

G George I du kno

I am not going to even bother with your ignorance. You are right, the Police are great, the NAACP is great, our youth are something to be proud of, but I never insulted blacks. Pull your head out of the sand!

DGMutley

And you continue...

deertracker

Anyone care to answer the question? You can talk about race without being a racist. Some of you want to redefine the meaning of the word or you have no idea what an actual racist is. I don't have to agree with you nor you I but the question remains. How did race mixing begin? Face the facts people. It's not rocket science.

DGMutley

You lost me with your post. As far as mutts go, we're all mutts.
DGMutley

wiredmama222

What is the question?...if it is how did the race mixing begin it goes all the way back to the beginning of time.

deertracker

I responded to HURONGUY's comment which has been removed. He was going on about bi racial kids and I simply asked how race mixing began. It goes way back but I am not sure when time began but whenever it started, it has nothing to do with these murders!

Really are you ...

Step back clear your thoughts and look at what has been happening. It all starts at Capitol Hill. The National Debt, members of Congress make their salaries and whatever they recieve from special intrest groups. What are they being paid so much for if they can not make sound decisions to bring our country back the greatness? I bet they do not want to pay their fair share in taxes, so they reshape the rules around their pockets. The monitarily rich stay rich, the middle class gets smaller, and the poor class gets bigger. All of the bread winning jobs are going to countries that pay less in hourly wages to be brought back and sold to the US consumer. Regular Joe is looking at Congress to make change for the better, to no avail. Life is getting harder on regular Joe, so he goes on medicines to cope with regular life. Joe is a smooth talker and one night stands are making alot of single parent families. Joe forgets to take his mind dulling medicines, faces reality, and snaps. American Pride is fading, the law makers have failed, law enforcement is struggling, and regular Joe relies on mind dulling substances to make it through the day.

The snowballing effects of all of this madness needs to stop. There are men, women, and children who are not here anymore because of senseless acts of viloence.

donutshopguy

My grandparents moral compass was not broken. My parents moral compass is not broken. My moral compass is not broken. My children's moral compass is not broken but I still continue educate them and they are in their 30's. My grandchildren are being educated on morals by my parents, myself and their parents. It's our responsibility not anyone else's.

This family value of life and personal responsibility have been passed down over 100 years within our family. I believe a majority of people have the same values but the tide is turning.

The decay of the family is what will bring this great country down. Not guns or jobs. Our society has become a disposable society. Marriages are disposable. Children are disposable. Life is disposable.

wiredmama222

Niether is my family, luckily, but some families are not so lucky and that is the problem. It is they who need the help. So we need to assist them. We cannot stand high on the shoulders of our luck and way a flag of victory because of that fortune, we need to assist those who are not so fortunate. Bragging that the moral compass we get to possess is intact and well is a shallow victory if it isn't shared with those less fortunate.

donutshopguy

wired,

How do you help a multi generational lack of moral fiber? The schools and numerous community organization for decades have preached this philosophy till they are blue in the face with little or no success. The only valid option left to save the next generation is to take these kids from their parents and grandparents. You up for that?

DGMutley

Donut says, "How do you help a multi generational lack of moral fiber? The schools and numerous community organization for decades have preached this philosophy till they are blue in the face with little or no success. The only valid option left to save the next generation is to take these kids from their parents and grandparents. You up for that?"

Who, what, when, where, and why?

donutshopguy

Mutt,

I won't give you a specific name of the individual I based my opinion on. I was involved in a child's life for a few years through one of our many entitlement organizations. This involvement included interaction with grandparents, parents , other relatives and the school. No matter what I said or did the child didn't have a chance. The child was always returned to the downward spiral of his life. The only chance this child had was to be taken away from the path his was born into.

I've walked the walk. Spent years and personal dollars trying make a difference but to no avail. Over the last few years I have changed my direction of assistance. Today I offer a "hand up" not a "hand out". I only help people who want to take personal responsibility for themselves. I help with support, direction and financial consideration. I will not hand over my time and resources to national feel good organizations. My commitment is personal and on an individual basis.

DGMutley

Donut,

Thanks for your reply. I need to think about what you said for a minute before I make a comment.

DGMutley

Donut,

I give you credit for taking a shot and getting involved. Don't despair, your efforts weren't in vain.

There isn't anything more devastating than a son or daughter getting arrested or in trouble no matter who you are. Equally so for someone you love or care about.

"How do you help a multi generational lack of moral fiber? The schools and numerous community organization for decades have preached this philosophy till they are blue in the face with little or no success. The only valid option left to save the next generation is to take these kids from their parents and grandparents. You up for that?"

The schools and many community organizations have preached and are preaching the philosophy. No doubt about it--look at the 300 page school rule book. There is plenty of preaching being done but there is no connect. Too often the relationship between the teacher and student becomes disconnected. A good example of this was the student who forgot his belt and his pants kept falling down.

No kid wants to become a dropout without an education or skills. He's forced to dropout because he can't keep up. He's overwhelmed. If we address this problem and get industry involved with OJT programs then voila, presto, job accomplished.

onegirlarmy

not an option here!!...no one is taking my grandkids!!!and they sure as hell wont be going to sandusky schools!

deertracker

My moral compass is just fine too. I raised my kids well but after a certain age kids make their own choices. Sometimes, it is simply the criminal's fault. We constantly look for excuses when there is none. People have different experiences with the police thus, people react differently. Do you want the NAACP outside of all schools or just SHS? If you really believe some people are just evil you can only blame the evil person.

2cents's picture
2cents

(you can only blame the evil person.)

Correct, and you know what really sucks is while driving to Cleveland yesterday and listening to MSNBC “way left news” I was ready to reach into the Radio and choke the guy that started talking about Mr. Obama putting goofass Biden in charge of an assault weapons ban. The guy on the radio had the nerve to say “we have been given the perfect opportunity to get the ban in place” those kids were not dead one week and these people like Diane Feinstein are taking this as an opportunity to push through their agenda. That makes me sick!

DGMutley

I agree with you.

wiredmama222

I believe they should ban assault weapons and multi fire clips for semi automatic guns. If not now, when? Perhaps it takes this type of awful tragedy to do something like this. The timing is now, not when people have forgotten the tragedy. I agree with those in mourning...."do something" as one poor mother said. I listened to her plea on Anderson Cooper360. She is right. Despite her grief, she wants this prevented so no other mother ever has to go through this again.

No, the time is now, and the time is right to prevent these guns and ammo from getting into the wrong hands ever again.

Don't make it political....it IS the difference between right and wrong...not politics.

Mental heath and gun control working hand and hand should help a great deal.

2cents's picture
2cents

And the video games? Stop their sales as well? It only makes sense, it is all part of the equation!

http://media.pcgamer.com/files/2...

http://i.imgur.com/CRqzK.jpg

http://i.ytimg.com/vi/j4E_OHqPzs...

sanduskysteve

In my opinion - we need to rid society of a few organizations to fix things and get them back the way they were when I was young. NAACP, NRA, and ACLU. The NRA quit fighting for hunters and started fighting for corporate interests. The NAACP only gets in the way in many of their activities. And the ACLU is totally responsible for the parent's inability to parent their children which gives them full access to do whateverthey want with no control by their parents. Finally let's blame government for trying to micromanage the discipline of kids and teens. The ACLU continuously fought ever city curfew in many states - they created the idea that parents could not punish their kids without reprocussions by the government, who jumped all over that. A ban on asault weapons is in order, judges who prosecute criminals is in order, and the laws need to be changes so there is no longer and minimum and maximum penalty - the penalty should be set in stone and all sentences should be manditory so that judges don't have a choice in the matter.

As for the comments that we need to stop talking down the police - I'll do that when the police stop breaking the law. It's not a very hard concept to understand.

car 54

Personal responsibilty.

KURTje

Eliminate decent jobs & watch crime increase; not just in S. Town.

donutshopguy

kURTje,

Lack of decent jobs justifies murder? That excuse is part of the reason our country is in such a mess. Morals are based on money.

DGMutley

Maybe so. If you look back through history, look at the murder stats for 1988 to 1994 (they're in one of the posts at the beginning of the thread) very high--18. Those were financially tough times.

donutshopguy

Mutt,

Your logic is money solves all social problems. Wow! If the government hands everyone $20,000 will that solve all our problems? Or do we need to make it $50,000 each and every year?

I will bet you all I own it doesn't. You want to bet?

DGMutley

You're twisting it. No income equals stressed out. Look at the number one reason people get divorced.

2cents's picture
2cents

Their dental hygienist was HOT!

DGMutley

A guy always has to careful at the dentist's office. lol

donutshopguy

Mutt,

"Maybe so"

Do you really believe a lack of jobs justifies murder?

DGMutley

Nothing justifies murder, but murder and violent crime have always been linked to poverty and the lack of jobs.

donutshopguy

Mutt,

I understand a possible correlation between poverty and lack of jobs. But, violent crime and murder due to poverty.

The first I can tie to lack of education. The second is a moral issue.

DGMutley

Donut,

-Young murder victims almost certain to be dropouts.
-What if keeping kids in school was a matter of life or death? Well, it is.
-Graduation rates has historically reduced murder and assault rates by approximately 20 percent.
-Crime Linked to Dropout Rates, Report Says
-Dropout Charged, Linked To Spree Of `Thrill Killings' - Chicago
-At-Risk Youth Linked To High School Dropout Problem

A few of the returns on page 1 of 44,500,000 Google results for "are dropouts linked to murders".

"is poverty linked to murders" returned 58,600,000 results

Super Judge

Why are most of the victims white?

DGMutley

Might be since most of the population is white. What is your point?

KURTje

D.nut. Please don't twist my words. Loss of good jobs hurt ALL. Many get divorced, drink excessively, etc. If you were ever had to start over you'd understand. No where did I advocate murder. Or look at other countries whose standards went down-hill. History validates that.

donutshopguy

kURTje,

I understand poor.

Put myself through college on my own nickel and started my own company with nothing. I didn't get divorced or drank excessively due to my lack of money. I didn't commit violent crimes or murder due to my place in life at that time.

It's called personal responsibility and self motivation.

Your continual excuses for poverty, crime and entitlement are falling on deaf ears to those of us who are successful by our own ability and drive.

The resources are available to those who are willing to put for the effort to be a success. I help people all the time. Excuses will get you nowhere and will eventually bring our country down.

Merry Christmas.

donutshopguy

Mutt,

You can't even force kids to attend school in jv detention. How you ever going to make them go when they are out in public?

Not saying education will not solve a multitude of problems but we as a community can only provide the opportunity for education not predispose the outcome. Heck, we can't even predispose the outcome when the kids are in jail.

KURTje

See? You got it wrong again d.nut. Nowhere was there any mention of handouts. Please contact Matt W. He can tell you a bit about me (war), though I doubt you have a business....if you do, I hope you value people.

donutshopguy

Yes, I value people who have a desire to improve themselves. I value people who work for a living. I value people trying to get off government handouts. I value people who understand personal responsibility of their lives. I value people who live within their means. I value people who live within the laws of society. I value veterans who have protected our opportunity to live free. I value handicapped people who won't let that handicap hold them back with life. I value the elderly who have built this country with hard work. I value people who use their God given ability and not waste it.

My business allows me to witness people who use color, heritage, divorce, drugs, alcohol and location as a crutch not to live their lives. I have no use to support people who use these and other crutches. If you wish to break these chains I'll give you a "hand up" not a "handout".

Merry Christmas

gene44870

You want to get the murder rate down in sandusky , there is only one way to archive that , And that is to get the city council to get the police presents back up o where it needs to , and get Mr Baxter to stop with these pleas and make the convicted serve the Max with no parole and widen the death penalty to cover less included cases of murder , and that might just be what its going to take to curve this crime .
In to many cases , retired or even fired police Officers are not replaced .
If you look at the police force now compared to recent years you can see the drop in good cops
I also feel that the Feds should help out in the cost of the trial as well as Lawyers .
I know that the cost of a death case is expensive , but that should not deter the state from seeking justice for those that can not speak for themselves and uphold there right to life .
To allow a person that's convicted of murder to be able to breath , when his victim can't is a slap in the face to the very laws that we all abide too
To Kevin Baxter , Please let justice be done I this case and let the victims rest in peace