County won't excuse Perkins bar's smoking violations

The owner of Excuses Lounge in Perkins Township knew the health department was unhappy with him, but he says he didn't know until last week he was facing more than $21,000 in fines for smoking violations.
Tom Jackson
Sep 23, 2011

 

The owner of Excuses Lounge in Perkins Township knew the health department was unhappy with him, but he says he didn’t know until last week he was facing more than $21,000 in fines for smoking violations.

Terry Smith, 54, a veteran in the bar business, says he’s worried that if the state of Ohio goes through with threats to take away his liquor license, he’ll lose his livelihood.

But he’s also angry at the health department because he believes he’s been singled out for enforcement.

“I’m going to lose my car, lose my home, everything,” he said.

The Erie County Health Department’s figures show bars in the county owe $31,400 in unpaid fines for smoking violations. Excuses Lounge accounts for $21,500 of that.

Smith believes the county health department is specifically targeting his establishment, but health commissioner Pete Schade said his workers only investigate violations after receiving complaints.

Pick up Friday's Register to read more about Smith's predicament and how the state is planning to revoke liquor licenses from bars that don't pay their fines.

Comments

Joker

It seems more than a little suspect that with all the bars in Erie County that two thirds of the fine money is at one bar.  It's also odd that the fine money only covers a couple of bars when many bars allow indoor smoking.

Kelly

He shouldn't have broken the law

judgejudy

 I have been in Excuses quite a few times, and the smoking was terrible. But I also know that The Pump is a huge offender, so I wonder how much they owe?

powerhouser

It's really simple, don't allow smoking in your bar.  No, Smith can't be there every minute of every day.  But guess what ?  His paid employees are.  Refuse to serve anyone who smokes.  See, simple and easy.  Maybe it's because he thinks he is above the law that this sitiation even is happening. Takes 10 steps to walk outside and smoke.  Huge covered porch area in front of bar.  No reason for the smoking in bar.  I was personally there last nite from 9pm till 1030pm...5 out of 10 patrons there were smoking.  

6079 Smith W

The little pencil-necked, do-gooder, bureaucratic political ruling class officials of the nanny state won't be satisfied until they control every single solitary aspect of the lives of every American.

The guy who put up the capital should call the shots whether an establishment should be smoking or non-smoking not the @#$% fascistic state.

I don’t smoke myself, but if it’s so @#$% bad why doesn’t the state and the country outlaw tobacco and its use?

Because the bureaucrats earn too much money off the tax revenue - @#$% hypocrites!

 

rottnrog

 

Funny how the right wing wacko's say the the govt.  is putting too many restrictions on business and infringing their rights but are behind the smoking ban telling business what they can and can't do !!!

This country is getting pitiful !!!

twiz

It is only 10 steps to walk out to smoke, but... if they allow it people will do it. I live close to there, and I walk up there from time to time...  I think smokers go there knowing that they allow smoking, so it doesn't suprise me that 5 out of 10 were smoking. I guess if you know it's a bar that allows smoking and you aren't a smoker (or it bothers you) then.. don't go until they stop it from happening. I was at Cleveland stadium for the game two Sundays ago, and there were people smoking in the bathrooms there. There were burn marks on the toilet seats... the more places they take away for smokers to smoke, the more you're going to see the laws broken.

myname

First start would be to bring in some good looking eye candy bar tenders like they used to have.  This place has gone downhill fast!

Perkins2060

.

IT'S ME

This guy thinks he's above the law. Look at the budweiser banner on the building, he knows it's a violation of Perkins zoning laws to have banners displayed outside BUT HE STILL DOES IT!

Perkins2060

Their business has tanked since he started to allow smoking inside this place.  There is never anyone there.  I know dozens of people that do not go there any longer because of the smoking. 

reader

He can use the windfall profits from all the smokers who have flocked to his bar to pay the fines.

Remember the theme song from the old tv show "Baretta".....  Don't do the crime, if you can't do the time.... Don't do it !

It's great our restaurants and law abiding bars don't stink now.

 

myname

Can they go after the owner of the building also?

myname

I just read last week in the Register that there was a huge cat fight there last weekend.  What a classy joint!  Real good for business!

Perkins2060

.

Centauri

http://www.sanduskyregister.com/sandusky/news/2011/sep/15/erie-county-unpaid-smoking-fine-bill-31400

http://codes.ohio.gov/orc/3794.08

There is hereby created in the state treasury the smoke free indoor air fund. All fines collected pursuant to this chapter and any grant, contribution, or other moneys received by the department of health for the purposes of this chapter shall be credited to the smoke free indoor air fund and used solely for the purposes of this chapter.

Is all of the money collected going to this fund or is somebody taking it for other purposes? Remember that lawsuit against the tobacco companies and how that money was supposed to have been used?

I cannot find any information on this "smoke free indoor air fund" on how much was collected and how it was spent. Where is the public information on this fund? Does it really exist? If so, where? Anybody know?

JERRY from SANDUSKY
Why should this place be the GOAT, you do nothing about the other businesses.     AMVETS     KOMANS     ATHLETIC CLUB     SAIL INN     HUNTERS     That's to name a few. What you going to do about them. Sounds like discriminations to me. Let this place go to,or bust them all.   Again our lazy a$$ health officals Sandusky included need to be fired.
HeaterBugg

You know the rules.  Don't let people smoke and you wouldn't be in this situation.

Unabasho

They warned him, "don't let 'em smoke"
But he thought that the law was a joke.
It proved to be true,
and now the fine's due.
No more Excuses, he's broke.

 

Captain Gutz

Haiku becomes a
limerick now, how very
ugly  it is

say no to big gov.

Good for you Terry!! This is your bar. dont let these people tell you how to run it...if you dont like the smoke dont go to a bar that allows it!!! its as simple as that...and if it was my bar i would walk into the health department (while smoking a cig) and throw those tickets in their face...BIG GONVERMENT IS KILLING THIS COUNTRY!!!

Hmm

Just makes sense, you're not making much sense today.  Maybe no one has complained at these other establishments.  For whaterver reason, complaints have been files at Excuses.

Taxpayer

The old Smity's Bar just changes their name with the exact same results in the same location.  It is perfectly clear Mr. Smith, "a veteran in the bar business," KNOWS what the law is and simply ignores it.  If YOU want to stand on a soapbox and proclaim how obstinate and special YOU are, then be my guest!  But, do NOT start bellyaching when all those fines add up and it is time to PAY!  I am sure the REASON the health department keeps stopping by Excuses is because they CONTINUE to stay in violation.  And WHO keeps calling the health department?  Here is a tip.  Everytime they are found to be in violation, the health department inspectors issue a written CITATION.  If YOU want to keep throwing them in the trash for instant comedy and obstinance, then HOW do YOU have any validity to complain?  It is exactly like YOU earning a plethora of traffic tickets, throwing them in the trash and ignoring ALL of them in defiance.  Guess what is going to happen?  A bench warrant gets issued and YOU go to JAIL!  It is always the BLAME of something.  "I am going to lose my livelihood, home, car, everything."  Boo, hoo, hoo!  Ha! Ha!  WHO is the one responsible for losing everything??  It is NOW sensational because Mr. Smith decided with rational choice to allow all those citations to add up.  NOW it is terrible.  NOW it is time to demonize the health department.  This is NOT about government against the little guy.  This is about the little guy being a total moron thinking he is SPECIAL, ENTITLED and DESERVING and the "savior" to fight this law all by himself!  ALL those written citations have added up.  If YOU feel sorry for him, then YOU help pay his TAB, allow him to avoid any responsibility and continue to break the LAW.  Come on, make yourselves "FEEL GOOD" and YOU pay.  Why not start your own "tavern" without a liquor license.  If YOU want to fight the law then go ahead and wager how long before YOU end up in jail and all your assets seized.  Then YOU can have a story printed about how YOU are being "picked on" by the evil government.  I guess ALL the other "watering holes" are slowly and regrettably in compliance, all but ONE!  This is now a story about liberal excuses at the "Excuses" Tavern.  The name is quite befitting.  Ha! Ha!             

Unabasho

Re: "BIG GONVERMENT IS KILLING THIS COUNTRY!!!" (sic)

~
Not exactly true;
cigarettes are killing us -
just fewer of us
~

Reva

 Ya know as a liscenced driver I am responsible for knowing the rules of the road if I drive.  So be it for his business.  Looks like you better start finding a new means of supporting yourself bysides the bar business.  

origen

Hey Check it out, The government extorting people for cash and threatening to take away thier livelyhoods. Awesome country we live in where if you run a business you cannot bend to the consumers will, You have to bend to the will of beuracrats hundreds of miles away. This is freedom folks, People with entirly too much time on their hands deciding whats best for you. Sure smoking is illegal in bars, But do people that actually worry about their health actually go to this bar anyways? Or any bar for theat matter in sandusky, Sure you will leave the bar with clean lungs only to get cracked in the head with a bat on the way to your car. Pure money thats all the government is anymore extortionist that are no better than the mafia wanting "protection" money so your store doesnt get shut down.

duckie1

It's really quite simple, he broke the law and now must pay the consequences.  

ritt

Perhaps Terry is being singled out ~ perhaps he's simply an  easy target due to his location.  Perhaps there is a reason the Pump doesn;t get busted as much.  Who knows?  In the end, Terry knows the rules.  As for the bartenders enforcing it........do as I say not as I do?  They smoke just as well.

My biggest issue with this ~ what does this have to do with the Veterans and the home?  Don't play that card!  The NON-veteran smokers in that establishment FAR FAR FAR outweigh those that are Veterans from the home.  Shame on someone for that one!!!

Hmm

Origen this isn't the will of beaurocrats, its the will of the people.  We voted on this, remember?

real talk

 very simple shut them down until they pay, I bet they figure out how to get it paid then

They are committing a crime, shut them down 

Centauri

@ origen    I totally agree with your comments.

Bars and taverns should have been exempted from the smoking law. The owners should have had the right to decide if smoking is allowed or not.

People who go to bars decide which bars they want to spend their money. Would these people go to a gay bar, a black bar, a bar known for fights? Would a black person go to a bar full of white racists? It is about choice. I choose not to go to bars for various reasons. If the smoke in a bar offends non-smoking patrons, don't go to the bar. You can buy a surgical type mask for about $20 online that filters out smoke.

Why pull a liquor license from a bar and put it out of business?

Should uninformed voters be allowed to vote to cancel out the votes of informed voters?

Look up the term "mass suggestion" since it seems to apply to the mass majority of the people and voters in general
 

http://www.sos.state.oh.us/SOS/elections/electResultsMain/2006ElectionsResults/06-1107Issue5.aspx

State Issue 5: Argument and Explanation Against

The SmokeFree Ohio proposal on the November ballot is a near total ban on smoking across the state. It is an unreasonable approach that creates an unnecessary intrusion on the rights of individuals and business owners to make their own decisions.

SmokeFree does not allow exceptions for adult-only businesses and virtually criminalizes smokers with potential citations and fines. It is important to realize that given free choice, many restaurants, hotels and other places that serve families are making “no smoking” rules on their own. Since most Ohioans don't smoke, we can rely on traditional American freedoms to decide this issue in the marketplace, as we have always done.

Ohio should take reasonable action to protect non-smokers in public places. It is important to protect families from second-hand smoke, but we should use common sense to make the rules, so both health and individual freedoms are protected.

SmokeFree is an unreasonable, intrusive approach that will create more problems than it solves.

 

 

Who gets the money from fines and how is it spent? I cannot account for it. Where's the money?

 

SamAdams

6079 Smith W is right again. This is a property rights issue, and the state (and feds) are trampling all over those rights! Bar and restaurant owners should decide whether or not to permit smoking. There are pitfalls either way, but the market will decide who gets which customers. Simple enough, and no need for government do-gooders is a bonus!

Hmm, yes, you're right, people voted. But the Bill of Rights exists not only to protect unalienable rights from infringement by the government (which this law is) but to protect unalienable rights from what John Adams called "the tyranny of the majority." Just because people VOTE against one right or another doesn't mean we don't still have those individual and unalienable rights! Or at least SHOULD still have them...

I've got two words for the bars cited: Jury nullification.

shocked911

All I have to say is this:  the people of Ohio voted to have a smoking ban in all public places.  Here is my main point:  Yes, people smoke inside of Excuses Lounge.  What about all of the other bars and "private clubs" that allow smoking on a daily basis inside their establishment?  I have to think that Terry and "Excuses" is being singled out in this Erie County Health Department sting.  I know for a fact that Bud's Place has smokers in there daily.  I know that Hunter's Bar has smokers in there daily.  Sail Inn, Komans, Amvets, the Eagles....they all have people in there smoking daily.  Either they need to equally enforce the law or don't enforce it at all.  There also needs to be a stiffer penalty for breaking the law.  First time offense, pay a fine.  Second time offense, madatory shut down for 1 week and a larger fine.  Third offense, loss of liquor license and complete closure AND a HUGE fine.  I guarantee if the penalty system was enforced and the way that I said it should be there would be very few offenders.  Who would risk losing their liquor license AND their livelihood?  I don't think any of the above listed bar owners would risk losing their businesses.  Either make the process of inspections fair and equitable or don't do it at all.  Increase the penalty and this problem will cease to exist.

Centauri

 http://www.psitek.net/pages/PsiTekTPOT4.html

Then there is what is termed “mass suggestion”. We are all inclined to think the same thoughts as the mob, and to have the same emotions arouse* within us as sway the masses of the people. It is very easy for a positive person to sway the thoughts and emotions of a crowd of people. It is difficult for one of the crowd not to be moved with the crowd. This is why people, who in the ordinary way are sensible, go “mafficking” on occasions of national rejoicing. It is also the reason why people who are peaceable and harmless in private life may, when in a crowd, join in acts of violence and disorder. It is simply that the mass emotion gets hold of them, influencing them so strongly they get carried away.

 .

Your submission has triggered the profanity filter and will not be accepted until the inappropriate language is removed. Where? What was profane? It took me several attempts to post the comment because I kept getting the message about the profanity filter.

The past tense of "arouse" is profane? Really? But the F bomb can be posted?

The Bizness

You all are forgetting that these are complaint driven, maybe someone is out to get Excuses for one reason or another and calls up the Health Department just for payback? Just my thought....

Hmm

voltz you're correct.  Posters act as if the health dept. is stopping by to issue citations.  This is based on COMPAINTS.  Maybe someone has it in for this guy, and they are filing complaints.  Who knows, who cares.

origen

Yes the people have voted on this, after being misled on the issue's by our great leaders in columbus. For what ..Money, Thats it just money. Pay up or we will throw you in jail and take away your business. You would think people would just mind their own business and not frequent these places with smoking sections, Everyone who voted for the banning of smoking needs to be forced to frequent the bars such as "Excuses" to enjoy the smoke free atmosphere. Its what they wanted right, To be able to sit in a dive drink red label beer and watch guys pass out drunk on the stool next to them, Heck bring the kids now that they have made it a family friendly enviorment the kids will have a ball !!!

What happends when the government starts to extort you for money? .................Scratch that they already do.

Raoul Duke

Looks like they'll have to dip into their ticket money to pay off the smoking fines...

myname

They don't have tickets.  They have machines.

BRIARS BYWATER

Let me see is I've got this straight?  The owner of a bar, tavern, club, etc... who is in the business of selling alcoholic beverages to anyone 21 and over, is getting fined for complaints made by non-smoking patrons of their establishment right?  These complaining patrons live next door I assume?  What I mean is, unless they do live next door, they comsume alcohol in this establishment and then they go out to there vehicles and drive home.  Intoxicated or drunk right?  Impaired driver, is a drunk driver.  People need to pull their heads out of there *sses and learn to mine their own business.  Smoking in the bar is one thing...non smokers bitching about it, and then driving home drunk is another.  A bunch of bigots!  It's okay for you to drive drunk, but a smoker can't sit in the bar you got drunk in, and smoke?  So you would turn a bar owner in for allowing smoking?  How would you feel if the bar turned you in for driving home drunk?  Everybody's breaking the law right?  So why shouldn't you be held responsible for being drunk?  Why?  Because you haven't been "caught" yet.  Or should I say....nobody complained?  Mine your own business people!  If you can't stand to be there, then leave!  Get drunk somewhere else?  Take your self-righteous, non-smoking *sses down the road!  I think if you ask most bar owners, they'll tell you, smokers make up more than half of their daily business.  If I remember correctly, there was alot of bitching about the wording on that smoking ballot when was passed.  Confusing is a better term.  I think they pulled one over on the smokers in the way they wrote it.  But it is what it is.  Now we have self-righteous, healthy alcoholics to deal with now?  Most establishments have built outside patios for the smokers because they "know" how much of their business has been hurt by the smoking ban.  Some bar owners are land-locked and cannot build these patios.  I think the whole idea is rediculous that non-smokers have that much power!  I think the only way to rid ourselves of the self-righteous, non-smoker, is to open up "Smoker Cafes" that cater to smokers.  And then make it a private club with a waiver acknowledging it as a smoking establishment.  If the name on the establishment says Smokes Cafe, maybe the non-smokers will find somewhere else to drink?  Finally, if people are so health conscienceous about smoking in bars, why are they so nasty in the bathrooms there?  I mean, even some of the nicest places around, still have bathrooms that would make a Billy Goat puke!  Bottom line...take yer tattling *sses home and drink there.  At least our smoking won't bother you, and you won't be out on the roads, driving drunk either!

 

myname

Filthy smokers don't drink and drive?

Raoul Duke

Maybe they can smell the smoke next door.

meowmix

Bottom line..this isn't a democratic nor a republican issue.  This is a smoker vs. non-smoker issue.

I smoke, I don't like to eat out any more, I don't stop off with my husband and have a beer anymore.  Simply because I liked my cigarette after my meal (in the non-smoking section of course) and a cigarette with my drink.

Non-smokers (or reformed smokers) are the most sanctimonious arseholes I have ever seen in my life.  I take a 5 minute  smoke break from my 8 hour-per-day job every hour.  that equals out to 45 minutes.   I eat my lunch at my desk and work through it.

While the non-smokers feel free to chat in each other's offices for 1/2 hour  at a time, take their two alloted 15 minute breaks and take an hour lunch on top of that.  But, I'm persecuted because of my filthy habit.

You non-smokers can go suck one.  I'm sure you drive like sh!t but I have to put up with you on the road.

Kottage Kat

@meowmix,

AMEN   t The Kat says  "Hiss on them"          Kat;}

Ohioan1982

 Not really sure how they can say they're being singled out.

I got into lots of bars around here, and the only ones who still turn a blind eye to smoking are Excuses, Bud's Place, the Sail In, and Cronin's.  Maybe there are others, but I can tell you that I know that Daly's, Cabanas, Water Street, Crush, the Underground, Zinc, Cheers, Cheap Seats, Margaritaville, and others have no problem at all obeying the law.

Maybe they percieve it as unfair that the other three bars who still allow smoking haven't gotten fined like they have, but tough luck.

Obey the law, and you won't have anything to worry about.

Local barowners and smokers act like this ordinace is exclusive to this area and is designed exclusively to inconvenience them.  To them, I say, "wake up." 

The vast majority of American states have banned smoking in public places and restaurants, and many other civilized countries worldwide have as well.

If you want to smoke in public places, move to West Virginia or Turkey or somewhere. 

44846GWP

If they outlaw smoking outdoors, in my home, or in my car they will have to pry my cigar out of my cold, dead hands! Nazi do gooders!

origen

What i dont understand here is, Why isnt the liberal agenda behind promoting smoking and collecting the taxes so they can buy more social programs where kids can learn to finger paint "yes we can" posters for the folks in washington so they can raise taxes on smokers even more? Nicotine is a drug, We are addicted i need disability and my taxes can go to help the cost of supporting SS. Instead smokers are treated like lepers in society while the non smokers are surely glad to use the taxes on their own agenda's. How about this, Next time someone tries to label a who group "victims" of society why not throw smokers in there too !!

meowmix

Origen-- or Negiro........what the hell is that?

As I said, you can't get more liberal than me but by the same token, why do you republitards want to take away women's choice on to keep a pregnancy or not?

Why do you want to interfere in who is allowed to marry?

You can't pick and choose your battles.    Either you want government interference or you don't.

origen

@ meow

 LOL!! do a little research, Origen was considered a heritic by the catholics for ages for his stances on religious thought. But he felt so strongly in the way he felt he casterated himself to remove urges.

I agree with you, No reason republicans or democrats need to tell anyone what to do.

The liberals seem to have a opinion about darn near evertything and thats why they pull the most attention to themselves, What food, What drink,Whats healthy,Whats not evertything about everything they want to pass a law about. People just need to have a little common sense about things before forcing their opinions on others by laws and penaltys.

Just remember you are listening to these people when taking advice on your health http://emergency.cdc.gov/socialmedia/zombies_blog.asp !!

mikel

while we persecute the gov't for their actions in fining these establishments we must remember one thing.  several years ago the voters of this state voted to make it illegal to smoke in bars etc.  so, in essence those who voted to ban smoking should be the ones that this hate is aimed at.

funny how many people now realize that this was a bad idea!

 

meowmix

Origen--never heard of the dude but I will definitely look him up as that interests me.

Secondly, it is not liberals who are trying to take away a woman's right to choose.   Quite the contrary.

I'm just sick and tired of people looking out for my own good.  Gotta wear a seat belt, gotta turn my head lights on when it's raining, gotta watch my good cholesterol but don't ignore the bad for sure!   I'm sick just hearing it all.

Now, I'm off to have a big juicy cheese burger, smoke a ciggy on way home and relax with a box o' wine.   Gnight! 

formeremployee

The law was passed to protect the health of the employees as well as the patrons.  I remember they made a big deal about the employees that were forced to work on a smoke filled environment.  Maybe it is a bar tender making the complaints not patrons.  Most of the other bars in the area have smoking patios for smokers, this might not ba an option for Excuses (since it's in a small "strip mall" but if it is then he should look at it as an option. I don't buy that he racked up that much in fines and did not know about it, I would assume that he ignored them. 

Crystal

All I have to say to this is "too bad, so sad."  The owner of this bar has deliberately broken the law since the law was put into place, and now he feels as though he has been targeted??  Maybe it is because this establishment is one of the few in the area that still allows smoking by coming up with things that don't resemble ashtrays to toss their ashes in.  It's sad that this man will lose his livelihood, as it is a tough time to find a job, BUT he brought it completely on himself by breaking the law.  News flash.  None of the other bars that followed the rules and banned smoking, went out of business...they built a smoker friendly deck.  Get with the times.

sanduskysteve

Crystal - you mentioned that no other bars went out of business because of the smoking ban - they just built smoker friendly decks.

My question would be this - what if they hadn't built those decks?  Would this have hurt their business?  I would say there is no information to tell if that would have happened or not, since the smokers are still patronizing those bars.  You have to agree with this summary.

If those smokers wouldn't be allowed to smoke at the bar (thru a deck), would they still visit the bar?  Would they spend as much time an dmoney at the bar?

There are lots of people saying those bars didn't go out of business, but they could be loosing profits without going out of business couldn't they??

The problem is that many of the other states that have smoking bans - followed the plans which we used as the second proposal on the ballot at that time written by a tobacco company - which would have allowed certain bars the right to have smoking as well as certain other public places like hotels - but would have required certain specific rules to be followed to do this.

That was the law I voted for because it was fair to everyone, but the lies told by the AMA pushed people to ignore the good law and pass the bad law.

I'd ve interested to see what the outcome of a new vote on this today would be.

By the way - where I live now, they allow hotels to have a limited number of smoking rooms if certain rules are followed with them.  And there are different rules for bars than for restaurants as well.

The rules are bad for certain businesses in Ohio and nobody really expected the bill to pass anyway - at least that's my opinion on it.

I Judge you

You will do as your told just like your parents did!

Cowboy

It's about time the law started coming down on these bar owners who think they are above the law!!  Now he's crying, woe is me?  Ha, throw the book at him!  You knew the consequences!  Now you pay the fine!  One cocky bar owner down, about 7 more to go as I see it.  Don't forget Castalia!

BW1's picture
BW1

formeremployee:  The law was passed to protect the health of the employees as well as the patrons.  I remember they made a big deal about the employees that were forced to work on a smoke filled environment.

They were forced to do no such thing.  WalMart is almost always hiring and it's smoke free.  Serving drinks in a bar has one of the highest compensation to skills ratios of any job, a strong incentive to CHOOSE to work in a smoke filled environment.  Those employees are free to choose to smoke themselves, aren't they?  THAT choice to endure first hand smoke carries no benefit.  So why, in a FREE COUNTRY, wouldn't they be free to CHOOSE to face second hand smoke for better earnings than they could get in a non-smoking environment.  People have the right to choose a career in law enforcement - I bet second hand smoke never killed anyone as quickly as Randleman did.  People choose a job with a risk/benefit balance that they find acceptable.

As for all those making a fetish of all laws, just or unjust, this area has a strong history of defying unjust laws. Do you recall from high school history class the Fugitive Slave Law, and notice the monument downtown to this area's participation in the Underground Railroad?

It's your body, and it's your right to decide what you put/let into it, first hand, second hand, or otherwise.  If you don't like smoke filled venues, then don't go to one.  Stop asking Big Brother to impose your preferences on others.  Be an American, not a fascist.

formeremployee

@BW1

Good points, but the law wasn't passed just for bars.  It was passed for all business open to the public.  And I beleive the proponents of the law were "concerned" about the health of the employees, not only bar tenders.  Waitresses, house keepers, etc.  enywhere somking was allowed.  Don't take my responces that I am for the smoking ban, like I said.  I smoke occasionally myself.  And I think the law is ridiculous.  I think it should be up to the business owners and not the Govt.  But the law did pass, so it should be obeyed.  He has the right to break the law, but not the right to complain when he gets caught. IMO

Captain Gutz

Serving drinks in a bar has one of the highest compensation to skills ratios of any job...

I have a hard time swallowing that!

 

Raoul Duke

This whole thing could be completely avoided by lawmakers having some common sense. It's obvious where people should and shouldn't smoke. Don't act like it isn't. The fact that I know that people smoke in that sh@thole of a bar is just one more reason for me to NOT go there. Wow, I just made a choice on my own~is that even legal?

Centauri

This whole thing could be completely avoided by lawmakers having some common sense.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tjWyce_C_Rg&feature=related

Arrested for growing a tomato perhaps? Check out some of the other videos on the same page. We have some real idiots that propose laws. Thankfully many do not pass.

I have a small garden and also purchase food from the area farmers. The problem is the wording of some of the laws. Will the time come that I will be penalized for growing my own food? Will vegetable gardens be unlawful in the future?

The smoking law is ridiculous because it should have excluded certain places like bars. No common sense was used when that law was written.

In the future, will it be unlawful to grow my own food or share it? Perhaps be required to only buy food full of chemicals from big business?

In the future, will big business force you to buy drinking water in bottles? That water that you drink from the sink could be treated to make it unfit to drink.

Because a law is written and enacted doesn't mean it is right. If the growing of food in your garden ever becomes unlawful, how many of you will be breaking the law? Obey or else? We already have too many laws on the books that deny us rights to pursue happiness.

 

6079 Smith W

@ Centauri:

Potentially illegal to grow one's own crops for one's personal usage? Yes it is.

It's already been decided by the U.S. Supreme Court under the guise of the Commerce Clause: 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wickard_v._Filburn

 

Enjoy your "free" "affordable" and manditory health insurance courtesy of Mr. Obama and pals also under the guise of the Commerce Clause.

With the Commence Clause, whatever the political ruling class determines is good for you can potentially become the law of the land. Sieg Heil!

Do ya think that Mr. Obama steps outside to light up?

(Hitler hated smoking, but on the other hand Stalin enjoyed a good cigarette - go figure.)

 

 

 

cockynurse

 This is a bunch of BS.  Ridiculous law....and thats coming from a NON-smoker.    

Darkhorse

This bar owner got real cocky right from the start when they warned him from the beginning about the no smoking ban.  He thumbed his nose at the whole smoking rule and acted in an arrogant  catch-me-if -you-can attitude.    He has no one to blame but himself for the fines.  I will say that the State could have warned the bar owners that they could take away their liquor license for repeated offenses and all this would have been avoided.  The bar owners can manage small fines but taking away their liquor license will shut them down with real meaningful consquences.   

Factitious

"Arrested for growing a tomato, perhaps?" Nah. (See Cantauri a couple of posts down)

It's urban legend gone viral thanks to paranoid wackos. Started as disinformation propaganda by corporations who would be inconvenience by laws that would make our food safer. See:

     http://www.snopes.com/politics/b...

On the other hand, Monsanto et. al. can be counted on to continue to pay off their pimps in Washington with "campaign contributions" to continue to build their monopoly on seeds, dangerous genetically modified food and other food sources, until everyone in the world is effectively paying a tax to Monsanto to eat.

The cancerette industry would have been reined in long ago, saving millions of lives, if we had a real democracy instead of a corrupt moneyocracy.
_______________

Exxcellent

I guess he can blame his customers. The ban is enforced on a complaint basis. No one must complain at the other bars - hence no fines.

OR the wives of the customers who sit in there all day and make EXCUSES. LOL

Centauri

While his opinions are based upon fact, Factitious reserves the right to make stuff up.   

@ Factitious      I use snopes at times as a guide only. Snopes is not infallible. When a law is passed, the writings of the law are interpreted by lawyers and lawyers in robes.

Factitious reserves the right to make stuff up. How much stuff do you make up?

http://www.wnd.com/?pageId=91196

In fact, Snopes, routinely cited by many as the final word on both frivolous and important stories, is not the well-staffed think tank of researchers, journalists and computer hacks one might expect – but rather, the work of David and Barbara Mikkelson, living in a Los Angeles suburb.
 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Snopes.com

Do some research on David and Barbara Mikkelson. Also research several sites to get the best possible answers. I use several news sites and never rely on one source of news or information.

 

 

Centauri

On the other hand, Monsanto et. al. can be counted on to continue to pay off their pimps in Washington with "campaign contributions" to continue to build their monopoly on seeds, dangerous genetically modified food and other food sources, until everyone in the world is effectively paying a tax to Monsanto to eat.

The cancerette industry would have been reined in long ago, saving millions of lives, if we had a real democracy instead of a corrupt moneyocracy.
 

Good comment

meowmix

Since when did this country stop being the land of the free I ask?

If I walk into a hotel where prostitution is the main business there, do I not have a choice to make?  Either stay or go?  Or, do I launch a campain against it because it doesn't go along w/ith my values.

Are people so self-centered these days that one must pray to their god, one must not smoke if they don't , one must have the same moral's as they have??

What the hell is wrong with people these days?  Don't want to over tax the Jersey Shore kids who earned over 5 million per kid for behaving like sluts? Yep, the great job creators they are.

When is this country going to start getting along again?

 

 

origen

Get rid of egg yokes and egg whites, whole milk, and salt they kill people too i dont want to see people destroy their lives and increase my healthcare bill, shoot quit breayhing because the carbon dioxide is killing us!!

Good god people wake up !!

When the government came for the <fill in the blank>,
I remained silent;
I was not a <fill in the blank>.

When they locked up the <fill in the blank>,
I remained silent;
I was not a <fill in the blank>.

When they came for the <fill in the blank>,
I did not speak out;
I was not a trade Fill in the blank>.

When they came for the <fill in the blank>,
I remained silent;
I wasn't a <fill in the blank>.

When they came for me,
there was no one left to speak out.

Have fun trying to control others it just shows whos side your on.

Factitious

Centauri, thanks for the kind word, but

re: Snopes - Seriously? I never claimed they are infallible, but they do have a reputation for reasonable fairness. And after, your citation was a YouTube by NoOneAnyoneEverHeardOf

And the link you cite purporting to debunk Snopes? It's a Birther page, for Pete's sake!

From the Wikipedia article you cite:

   "Snopes has received praise from folklorist Dr. Jan Harold Brunvand , author of a number of books on urban legends and modern folklore [and perhaps the authority on urban legends], who considers the site so comprehensive as to obviate the necessity for launching one of his own.[11]   "

 

Raoul Duke

If you think about the other bars that we all know allow smoking, they tend to be in buildings that stand alone, like the Pump, Sail In, Bud's Place. I'm guessing that the complaints come mainly from next door. I don't know who that is, but I wouldn't blame them if the smoke was coming over into their building. The law was meant to protect non smokers, not to change people who do smoke.

GoBigLex2001

There is no excuse for "Excuses" not to follow the law. Maybe if you were a law-abiding citizen/business owner, you wouldnt have to worry about your license being at risk. You broke the law and ignored it, now its time to pay the piper. Take the license!

EZOB

FACT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

         This isn't a "LAW", it's a Smoking Ban.  The difference???  If it was a law, police could enforce it a write you a citation for smoking.  There is nothing in the Ohio Revised Code to allow police to enforce the Smoking Ban.  I want the Health Department to fine obese people who order fattening foods and I want Fast Food Establishments held responsible for serving obese people.  What hypocrites that collect cigarette tax money and then expect establishments to enforce the Ban.  Make all cigarettes illegal and I'm for this 200%.  The politcal machine becomes more corrupt with each election.

origen

"Make all cigarettes illegal and I'm for this 200%. " Yep thats Freedom for you, Do what i say not what you want to do. Hopefully the TSA gropes people that believe in this till they understand that the more they press the government to make stuff "Illegal" the more it encroaches apon everyones freedom. As the political winds change all these laws and regulations are doing is opening the door for the next admin to put more laws on the books. From the time you wake up till the time you sleep (even then) you are regulated and theirs laws about your every move.

sanduskysteve

EZOB - it actually isn't a smoking ban it's an amendment to our state constitution.  It was done that way so it couldn't be manipulated by the state legislature.

Also making cigarettes and cigars illegal would NOT help the unemployment numbers - in fact it would add hundreds of thousands to the count.  That should make Obama look good - now wouldn't it?  And you guys would blame him for it just as well as I'm sitting here.

Some people just do not understand the amount of manufacturing and the number of employees involved in making those products.  And shutting down factories and getting rid of workers is a good way to move that business out of the US.  Who woudl be to blame?  EZOB.

Nam Vet

The real problem is that you can not find out who turned the bar owners in. I thought you should be able to face your accuser. That way is wrong. You make the call be prepared to show up in court. then lets see how many calls they get. And to Origen, you are right about the extortion. May some mafia dudes need to visit the people at the health department and have a little talk with them. What do ya think?

Nam Vet

The real problem is that you can not find out who turned the bar owners in. I thought you should be able to face your accuser. That way is wrong. You make the call be prepared to show up in court. then lets see how many calls they get. And to Origen, you are right about the extortion. May some mafia dudes need to visit the people at the health department and have a little talk with them. What do ya think?

BR549

first off I do not smoke or own,work at a bar,however they intenionally worded the ballot on the smoking ban so as to be confussing (no means yes- yes means no) that was no accident, now they want to fine the owner of the bar or buisness instead of the offender, this makes no sense at all. even if the people go outside to smoke, some cities are complaining about the people hanging out on the public street, to the bar owners, what are the owners supposed to do? if you think this is alright, just wait till they come for you with some buLLLLLLsheeeeeeet law.................

Informed

EZOB,  other people eating fattening food and being obese affects your health how?  What some of you people fail to comprehend is that second-hand smoke is harmful and that you do not have the right to inflict that harm on another person.  End of discussion.

sanduskysteve

Informed - what you are failing to comprehend is that no body is forced to go to an establishment that would allow smoking to be "aflicted" by second-hand smoke.  So, if you believe it to be harmful, then stay away from it.

A business, although open to the public, is also a privately owned establishment and you are considered to be on private property while you are in the business.

If a business allows smoking, there is no law that states you must visit that business.

Now, the discussion has ended.

formeremployee

Coulda shoulda woulda doesn't matter.  The ban says no smoking in a workplace, period.  he new it, he allowed it, he got caught.  So what's the big deal?  If I speed, and if I get a ticket I don't complain that the speed limit should be higher, I pay my fines and go on with life.  All the people complaining about the ban should have did more so it didn't get passed.  If the bar owner new he couldn't afford to pay the fines, he should not have let people smoke in his bar. 

BR549

HOW ABOUT IF I SPEED AND YOU GET THE TICKET !!!!!!!!!!!!

The tt's picture
The tt

If the county's making such a fuss over smoking in Excuses, nobody tell them about this place called "Big O's."  Lord knows what would happen if they found out what was going on in that hole.

Mr. D

Sadly, "do good" groups have been responsible for ridiculous laws and erosion of our freedoms since this country was founded.  Many are so tunnel visioned with their agendas they sometimes loose touch with reality,  I admire the management fo Excuses for fighting back.