GOP blocks student loan bill

McConnell: Democrats want an issue 'to save their own hides this November'
Associated Press
Jun 12, 2014

 

Senate Republicans on Wednesday blocked legislation aimed at letting people refinance their student loans at lower rates, a pre-ordained outcome that gave Democrats a fresh election-year talking point against the GOP.

The 56-38 vote fell short of the 60 that would have been needed to advance to debate on the measure by Sen. Elizabeth Warren, D-Mass. Her bill would have let millions of borrowers, some with years-old debt and interest rates topping 7 percent or more, refinance at today's lower rates.

The bill would have been paid for with the so-called Buffett Rule, which sets minimum tax rates for people making over $1 million.

"With this vote we show the American people who we work for in the United States Senate: billionaires or students," said Warren. "A vote on this legislation is a vote to give millions of young people a fair shot at building their future."

Republicans said the bill wouldn't have done anything to lower education costs or reduce borrowing, and they accused Democrats of playing politics by highlighting an issue that was bound to fail.

"The Senate Democrats' bill isn't really about students at all. It's really all about Senate Democrats," said Minority Leader Mitch McConnell, R-Ky. "They want an issue to campaign on to save their own hides this November."

Student loan debt has topped $1 trillion and emerged as a drag on the economy and on middle-class families across the country, making it a ripe target for politicians ahead of midterm elections where Democrats risk losing their Senate majority. Wednesday's vote followed two days where President Barack Obama highlighted the issue from the White House, announcing executive action to let more borrowers to cap their monthly payments at 10 percent of their income and answering questions about the issue on the social networking site Tumblr.

The Obama administration said Warren's bill could have helped some 25 million borrowers save $2,000 each over the lifetime of their loans. It would have allowed people with older loans at higher interest rates refinance to rates below 4 percent offered today under a deal reached a year ago in Congress.

Three Republicans joined all Democrats in voting to proceed to debate on the bill: Susan Collins of Maine, Bob Corker of Tennessee and Lisa Murkowski of Alaska.

Some 40 million Americans have outstanding student loan debt totaling $1.2 trillion, making it the second-largest form of consumer debt, second only to mortgages, according to Warren's office. People 60 and older account for some $43 billion of outstanding student loan debt.

Comments

Contango

Re: "Some 40 million Americans have outstanding student loan debt totaling $1.2 trillion, making it the second-largest form of consumer debt, second only to mortgages,"

The Federal Reserve's artificial low interest rates and GSE encouraged liar loans worked out well for pumping up the housing bubble didn't it?

95% of student loans are backed by the govt., i.e. U.S. taxpayers.

freespeech1

The student loan bill was just a gimmick to make news. If Obama cared about debt and these kid’s futures, he wouldn’t be running up the national debt and destroying the Dollar.

Someone should find out whether those students learned math. Ask them whether they’d prefer to save a few percent off their student loans or live under a few percent inflation every year until the Dollar finally crashes to zero.

bluzie

There is nothing about this that is a gimmick, unless you think helping Americans is a gimmick? Seems like if you are not a corporation, the GOP doesn't give a hoot about you. What have they done in the last 10 years to actually help people? Hint, NOTHING!

Peninsula Pundit

Ne'er truer words were spoken.

Peninsula Pundit

And your point is, Contango?
If there is one pertinent to the article, that is.

From the Grave

I rather my tax money go to education than to whatever we are calling our presence in the Middle East.

There you go again

Why is the government governing our college loans?

Contango

In 2010, Pres. Obama and a Democrat Congress, saw to it that the U.S. taxpayer was on the hook for student loans.

"Student Loan Overhaul Approved by Congress"

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/03/2...

bluzie

Student loans had always before George Bush been a low interest government loan. George Bush changed that and made student loans an ATM for banks. President Obama changed it back to a government low interest loan when the banks were no longer lending in 2009. However, when President Obama and the Democrats wanted to lower the interest rates to the rate that we can borrow, Republicans blocked it. The GOP does nothing but hurt Americans. Wake up!

From the Grave

Why? The same reason that they make laws to protect people from other people. If everyone always did what was in the best interest of themsleves AND other people, we wouldn't need a government.

Contango

Re: "we wouldn't need a government."

And if the central govt. pushed accountability down to the local level as far as possible we'd need less (read: expensive) centralized govt.

Trying to govern a nation of 320 million people from one city on the Potomac leads to abuse, inefficiency, fraud and waste.

The 'problem' with DC?

It's too BIG, it's too COMPLEX and it's too full of POLITICS.

From the Grave

Yeah~who governs the government. Nobody.

Contango

Re: "who governs the government,"

"Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity."

- Hanlon's razor

The Big Dog's back

Gee, I think we tried that Gov to the locals thing before. How did that work out? Oh yeah, the Civil War.

SamAdams

You might want to revisit your American History lessons...

The Civil War wasn't about local government. It was declared to prevent states from exercising their Tenth Amendment rights. Yes, the rallying cries and the results involved slavery, but that was convenient (after all, most people can't in good conscience support enslaving other people!). The real reason for the Civil War was to make secession illegal and states' rights largely null and void.

freespeech1

Well put Sam, unfortunately most have no idea what the civil war was about in reality. Schools don't teach the historical facts. The true Abe Lincoln is not taught to kids.

Factitious

The Civil War did not nullify states' rights. It did settle some questions as to what the term means.

The claim that the Civil War was about states' right and not slavery is mostly revisionism by apologists for the South's racism.

Nemesis

The Civil War transformed the United States from a free republic held together by the consent of the states to an empire held together by military force.

Lincoln violated many other parts of the Constitution, including threatening to imprison the Supreme Court if they published a ruling contrary to his will.

The Civil War was about economics and taxation. At the Hampton Roads peace conference, the Confederacy was told they could keep their slaves, but the sticking point was the protectionist tariffs that protected the North by ravaging the economy of the South. The war would have ended that day if the Union was willing to reduce the tariff. That was the only point of disagreement that caused the war to continue.

The Big Dog's back

More southern hooey.

Contango

Re: "revisionism,"

At it's essence it was a constitutional crisis.

KnuckleDragger

If the government truly cares about helping atudents who are being buried by their monthly student loan payments then please tell me why student loan debt is the only debt that cannot be discharge in a bankruptcy? The bottom line is, if they want to help students 1) get rid of the exemption from bankruptcy, 2) put a cap on the amount of student loans the government will back.

Informed

There is a cap on the amount of student loans the government will back. Each student is only allowed so much.

freethinker1

Knuckle: That's exactly the sort of reform that Obama is hoping to enact.

Sen. Brown met yesterday with a recent graduate who took out $40,000 in loans to pay for an over-priced college degree. The student now owes $70,000, and his credit rating has tanked, as a result. In turn, he now cannot get a good job, because of that poor credit rating.

The point of this article is that Republicans are only making the problem worse, by not allowing any reform that would actually help students.

grumpy

So the problem is not with the student who borrowed more than he can repay but with the gov't who loaned the money? And the gov't needs to change the rules to make it right? The student's last lesson is that there are no consequences to making bad decisions. Or was there a gun to his head forcing him to take out that loan? He was forced to take the loan instead of working a few years to save money to pay for college? The gov't is the only one who has to make it right? Maybe we should change leadership in the gov't? Last few times I took out loans the gov't never offered to forgive those loans. But I guess students are special and don't need to be treated like other folks.

On another post you went on about how universities are great because they have such intelligent folks there. I guess I will have to take your word for that as with this issue it seems not to be obvious where that intelligence is hiding there.

ram03

I'd rather have my tax dollars in my wallet. After all that is money I earned. But nonetheless, politicians need a giant to slay so they can say vote for me! It's sick, could also be called Munchausen Syndrome. Create the problem, and then swoop in to solve said problem.

freethinker1

So, your "solution" is to stick it to these students, who are the victims of a financial system they didn't create? Republicans are always griping about people who scam the system. These are people who WANT to get educated, who WANT to get a job in their chosen career field.

Instead, they are forced to become a drag on our economy far longer, simply because the loan system saddles them with ever-growing debt from the get-go.

How interesting that some conservatives don't realize this. They are too busy griping about the deficit, while blissfully unaware that they are helping it grow...

Rosa

Mcconnell and his disgusting miserable sub human beings just want two classes, the very rich and the very poor. They do not want the middle class to get ahead. Student loans should be interest free, and there should be more free public college education. After college, some kids have loans that are what a house payment is for their parents.

The Big Dog's back

Exactly Rosa.

MiddleRight

Your liberal schools keep upping tuition to pad the pockets of the overtly liberal professors and administrators.

So who's against the middle class? Where do you think that tuition money is going to?

If you hypocritacal liberal homers would look at the real problem and not an outlying symptom of the problem, then real progress could be made.

And if you think student loans should be interest free and education free, why aren't you on the Demoracts that put this bill together? It does little to nothing to help any student. It's an election year stunt.

freethinker1

Schools don't identify themselves as "liberal", and certainly, they also educate conservatives. So, before you continue with your anti-education rant, you should probably consider that without colleges, conservative leaders would be even more stupid than they currently are.

Liberals DO find a home at educational institutions, because that's where the smart people tend to be. I don't consider that a character fault, since being well-educated and well-informed are good things. Fox News, of course, would disagree with that - since they are counting on their viewers to be under-educated and under-informed. Conservatives find a home at NASCAR races and UFC matches, and as a group, tend to be suspicious of any educational institution - as you obviously are.

I don't think student loans should be free, but it's quite obvious that the interest rates are ridiculously high. We took out a $16,000 loan for my son in 2004 and made the payments on schedule. By 2012, we owed $25,000. Something is clearly wrong.

If it's seen as an election year stunt, I'm ok with that, because (unlike most GOP initiatives) THIS ONE actually helps middle class Americans. Conservatives should try that, once in awhile, I think...

The Hero Zone's picture
The Hero Zone

Conservatives find a home at NASCAR races and UFC matches, and as a group, tend to be suspicious of any educational institution - as you obviously are.
- - - - - -

Muslims find a home at terrorist-training cells and prayer rugs, and as a group, tend to be suspicious of any non-Muslim infidel - as you obviously are.

Women find a home in the kitchen and bedroom, and as a group, tend to be suspicious when they aren't pregnant for a period of time - as you obviously are.

Mexicans find a home under sombreros for siestas and drink tequila, and as a group, tend to be disrespectful of borders - as you obviously are.

EDIT: I think we can see where generalizing is a bit nonsensical. Same in the other article where you responded to and countered huronguy2 and his broad brushes about "libs".

The Big Dog's back

hz, grow up.

The Hero Zone's picture
The Hero Zone

Did you just say "Rosa, get to the back of the bus."?

I want to be clear that you don't want anyone to challenge a stereotype that turns people from independent human beings into nothing more than an inhuman perception that serves a perceived majority. Is this hand-in-glove with your stance on politics that only D/R party leaders deserve to participate in democracy and not the average citizen?

The Big Dog's back

Grow up.

Rosa

Middle Right,

Actually the money is not going towards the professors so much. Studies have shown the professors are not receiving huge raises and such. They have so many grad student who are student teaching that the cost to professors is not increasing. Maybe administrators

dontknowmuch

how do you knuckleheads want to pay for it and don't say tax the rich... they already carry the burden for many looking for a handout because they're too lazy to do it themselves

bucknut36

I would rather my tax dollars try and help people in my own country. I did two tours of duty in Iraq, the average American has no concept of the money that has been wasted there. Remember when Cheney and Rumsfeld said the Iraq War would pay for itself? A complete waste of blood and treasure. I have no problem helping American students. Take care of own!

Trigger from Erie

No, I do not remember when Cheney ("Chaney" if you are Matt Westerhold) and Rumsfeld said the Iraq War would pay for itself. When was that exactly?

Trigger from Erie

False. The link quotes Secretary Rumsfeld as saying that funds for post-war reconstruction will largely come from Iraq itself. There's a big difference and it was obviously lost on the author of the article.

The Big Dog's back

Oh, you must be one of those right wingnuts immune from facts. Gotcha.

jazzbo

Trigger from Erie--Sounds like you're putting a little spin on that.
Iraq was going to REPAY America with oil and blah, blah, blah.

freethinker1

THANK YOU. Excellent comment. These are young Americans who WANT to work for a living. We need to stop doing things that make it harder for them to do that. We're still paying for the wars. I would rather invest our tax dollars into Americans.

The Big Dog's back

The GOP blocks. Common thing since 2009.

MiddleRight

If they didn't, this country would really be in the toilet instead of circling the drain.

Contango

^^^Great comment!

jazzbo

b s

dontknowmuch

and the Dems have never blocked anything.... correct?

The New World Czar

"They want an issue to campaign on to save their own hides this November."

McConnell, beyond all of his other dimwitted moves, is correct here. Create a crisis from your inability to find anything beyond minimum wage with your unmarketable degree...and ultimately get taxpayers to pay for the incurred debt.

Secretary of Education Arne Duncan said he had no clue how much this was going to cost, so why trust the Senate?

MiddleRight

In typical Democrat form, they looked around and realized they really haven't accomplished anything except a crappy health care plan, releasing terrorists, allowing illegals to stay in the country, squashing religious freedom, trying to take all guns away, regulating soda sizes, raising taxes...so they decided to try and create something that the millenials might latch onto and vote for.

freethinker1

Let's address each silly comment in MiddleRight's rant:

1. HealthCare: the reason the GOP has been mostly silent on this lately is because it's become very obvious that more are more people like Obamacare. A GOP congressman set up a public chat with a few dozen elderly Floridians recently, in hopes to get them to state how much they disliked the new law. Instead, the vast majority said how much the law has helped them.

2. Releasing Terrorists: Bush released 516 Guantanamo Bay prisoners, and got zero in return. They were "terrorists" as well. 516 is a bigger number than 5.

3. Allowing Illegals to Remain in the Country: Obama has deported FAR more illegal aliens than his predecessor.

4. Squashing Religious Freedom: Nope. We just don't like it when ultra-cons use Religion as a smokescreen to justify outdated discriminatory viewpoints.

5. Trying To Take Guns Away: Amazing how this lie still persists, isn't it? No one, repeat, no one is trying to take anyone's guns away. We just want to have sensible background checks for gun purchases.

Regulating Soda Sizes: Mayor Mike Bloomberg did attempt to enact this, but he isn't a Democrat, he ran as an Independent.

You are rather uninformed. I recommend that you read more, and post less often, until you actually can show that you know what you're talking about.

The Big Dog's back

Great advice!

grumpy

Let's address some of the silly statements in freethinkers rant:

1. Has the average family been getting that $2500 reduction in their heathcare we were promised? Have folks been able to keep their old doctors? Have folks been able to keep their old plans if they want? Some have, some haven't. I could also give a single example of my statement but when realizes that is one example in a population of 320 million I won't bother with making that strawman.

2. In any jail, there are those who are the worst. That was the fiv5 who were just traded. and of those 516 around 1/3 of them were either recaptured or killed on the battlefield and identified. How many of the last 2/3's went back and took up arms against the US is not known. Does anyone think that none of the 2/3's we don't know about never went back into battle? Does anyone think that gov't should not learn from their mistakes? That just because the other guy did it also that makes it OK to do it? Does that mean that obama can't do new things but can only do what bush did and did wrong?

EDIT : it is closer to 30% than 1/3 but close enough before I went back and looked it up. This also includes other gitmo prisoners that were released under obama so the number they use is 599. My memory wasn't perfect. Course this article is over 2 years old. I wonder if more have taken up arms against the US?

http://www.reuters.com/article/2...

3. I guess you don't keep up with the news:
http://dfw.cbslocal.com/2014/06/...

4. Sorry I don't have much of an interest in religion.His, yours, or anyone else's. You folks seem to need a govenor on your emotions when you get on that topic.

5. I guess you don't keep up on the news. http://www.huffingtonpost.com/20...

You claim others are uninformed I guess you must be one of those. I linked to a couple of current news stories that directly contradict what your claims are.

The Hero Zone's picture
The Hero Zone

You beat me to my own blathering. Curse you, grumpy! I'll get you next time!

NEEEEEXT TIIIiiimmmmeee...

grumpy

Both of us enjoy it too much when we can link to current articles or facts to refute statements others make... when they don't bother to link to anything that backs up their opinions. I have no problem with others opinions, but not when they are passed off as facts. You seem to have that same "problem".

The Big Dog's back

You wouldn't know a fact if it hit you in the face.

grumpy

I see you haven't used anything to refute the facts and current news articles I linked to. Must not be able to counter what I linked to or said. so you make a non-comment and hide. It is what we have come to expect from a piddle puppy after he drops a load. At least you aren't as full of it after your comment as you were before.

grumpy

.

grumpy

I guess when I complained that I was blocked, they decided to unblock and print what I wrote, three times. I guess that is what happens when it is machines that are programed to be moderators instead of people. You have to wait some number of minutes before you can edit spelling or grammar mistakes or will trigger the spam filter and have it kick in. I wondered why some folks had double and triple posts.

SamAdams

There's little difference between mortgage payments and student loan payments in more ways than one! Consider:

Why would you buy a $500,000 house when all you can reasonably afford is a $125,000 house? If you choose to saddle yourself with a half-million dollar loan with monthly payments that effectively break you, you don't get bailed out by taxpayers. You get foreclosed on by banks and called "stupid" by the rest of us! Student loan totals would be nowhere near as high as they are if people (and I mean parents as much as college kids) bothered to look just a few years into the future!

Bottom line: If you have a huge student loan to pay back and can't afford the monthly payments, it seems to me that the college you attended wasn't worth the money if you're that economically illiterate!

Informed

All colleges are expensive, some just more than others.

freethinker1

Sam: College students understand the size of the loan. They simply don't have any other choice. If they want a college education, but can't afford it and/or don't qualify for grants, a loan is the only other option.

They enter that loan knowing that the average college graduate earns roughly $1 million more over a lifetime compared to a high-school graduate. So, at age 18, it sounds like a good trade-off: be in debt on the short-term, and make more money in the long-term. What they don't realize is that the loan companies tilt the tables in such a way that it's difficult - at best - to ever pay off the loan.

It's also a self-perpetuating problem. The high loan debt lowers their credit rating. So they can't get a good job, or a home loan or car loan.

grumpy

You always have a choice, unless they have a gun to your head. You can work for a year or 2 and save for college, you can work part time and go to school part time, you can join the military and use those benefits and save for college, to name a few. It just isn't what some folks would rather do. They want others to pay for their schooling. They think there is only one way to do it and won't consider other options. Then want someone else fix the consequences of their decision. Preferably the gov't.

Informed

1. One would have to work for a heck of a lot longer than a year or two to pay for college. I don't know too many 18-year-olds who make $40,000 a year. 2. Many college students alreayd work part-time. That doesn't pay for school. 3. Not everyone is eligible to join the military (such as those with asthma or other health problems), and the military often makes cuts.
Most people who go to college do not want others to pay for their education.
Do you realize that almost every middle class college student has to take student loans, parent PLUS loans, or both? There is no way to afford it otherwise.

grumpy

If you are going to a college that costs $40 grand a year and don't have grants, personal savings, parental help, scholarships or something else to pay for it, you CAN'T afford the college of your choice. You should find what you can afford and go from there. Why do you think you are special enough to get something you can't afford? It is called growing up and living within your means. Why should someone else pay for you? There are grants, and scholarships and the military all out there that can be used. If you casn't afford something you shouldn't get it. I want a private jet but can't afford one. Will the gov't buy me one and pay to maintain and service for it? I guess I won't be getting one soon. My life is SOOOO hard. I can't get what I want.

Informed

I never said college costs $40,000 a year. You said to work for a year or two so you can save for college. Four years of college at only $10,000 )not counting room, board, books, etc) is $40,000. How would you save for that in a year or two?

grumpy

As stated above. If you can't get grants, scholarships, haven't saved, don't get parental help, won't go into the military to get benefits, you can't afford college. Are you special and expect others to pay yiour way? The special ones have gotten scholarships, grants and such. If that is not you, you can't afford what you can't pay for. You know what people who live beyond their means are? Bankrupt. Work part time, school part time, join the military, save as much as you can for college.

Why do you think you are owed a college education for free? Because you were born? Sorry for the rude awakening, it is called life, in the real world there is no such thing as a fair share. The pilgrims tried that the first couple of years after their landing and almost starved, then they were able to keep what they reaped and survived well and sometimes thrived. Beat the he77 out of starving, with a "fair share".

SamAdams

EXACTLY! This X 10.

Donegan

In other news the government just shipped off another 85 billion to wall street. I bet you liberals are glad Obama is not for the 1%ers !

The Big Dog's back

done again, were you born ignorant or did you practice at it? Post something factual at least once.

Donegan

Guess comedy central doesn't talk about the wall street bailouts. But thank you for typifying a common Democrat voters.
http://money.cnn.com/2013/10/30/...

The Big Dog's back

Do dates mean anything to you?

Donegan

I am not going to spoon feed you facts. Face it Obama likes rich people better than you.
Hows does it feel to know your god has forsaken you for those you despise? I think its funny you and coaster are infatuated to the point of obsession with someone who hates you.

freethinker1

Meh, we're still fixing that "little" financial crisis that Bush caused, aren't we? Yeah, I know, I know. You'd like to ignore history pre-2009, and sidestep that "little" issue of how the GOP push for deregulation led to the problem.

Are things perfect under Obama? Nope. Are the better than they would've been under McCain or Romney? Absolutely.

Shouldn't you be busy organizing a Going Away Party for Mr. Cantor?

Donegan

Oh look, blame and deflection. Don't you get tired of looking stupid defending the same thing youre against just because of the party label they wear?

Really are you ...

As was said before when Obama preached about sending our kids to college. We need to send our kids to college, to acquire better paying jobs, and secure a brighter future. That may not be his exact words, but that was the message he was relaying. The real problem that these kids can not repay their loans because there are no jobs available in their fields of study. Maybe there are some jobs in those fields, but not enough to pay loan debt back and live on their own. Highly educated burger flippers. Should have invested more in job creation and innovation. Just waiting for signs to be posted all over Washington DC. "SOLD!"

Dr. Information

You liberals who have extra cash laying aruond (hehe) are more than welcome to loan local college kids the money they need for college interest free and on a pay as you want to schedule.

Really are you ...

I forgot the place down in southern Ohio. Obama visited there in his jobs across America campaign. The 3D Printer. Right!

AJ Oliver

to say that the Warren bill would "does little to nothing to help any student" is totally ridiculous and shows once again how the right just makes stuff up without any regard at all for facts. Many of the honest old cloth coat Republicans have left the party for that reason. They cannot abide the gun crazy, anti-science, tea party crowd that runs the party now.
And, oh yes, the Civil War was TOTALLY about slavery. The modern right does not believe in history either, again prefering to make stuff up.

Contango

Re: "the Civil War was TOTALLY about slavery."

At it's essence it was a constitutional crisis.

Slavery?

Yea, Those rich New England textile mill owners and the old moneyed New England families who profited off the African slave trade were wholly innocent. lol

Contango

Re: "Warren bill,"

Just another taxpayer subsidy for liberal academia.

Doesn't it bother you that some college presidents earn over $1M annually and that many endowment funds hold and earn billions in assets?

http://www.policymic.com/article...

http://money.cnn.com/2014/01/28/...

Altruism as practiced by liberal not-for-profits pays real well when funded on the backs of U.S. taxpayers.

Nemesis

"To say that the Warren bill would "does little to nothing to help any student"is totally ridiculous"

Oh how naive you are. It doesn't allow them to discharge the loan - it just lengthens the term. It's all about helping the banksters, by allowing them to keep the loan on the books rather than writing it off.

"And, oh yes, the Civil War was TOTALLY about slavery."

You go on believing that. Don't do anything like follow the money. You probably believe TARP was about helping homeowners, too.

freethinker1

Exactly. Last night, they filibustered Elizabeth Warren's bill, which would have allowed students to refinance their loans at a lower rate.

Assuming we are to believe that they actually care about middle-class Americans, what possible good reason is there to put students and their families further in debt?

It certainly is getting harder for their apologists to explain things, when literally EVERYTHING they do is an attack on the poor, middle-class, women, minorities...the list goes on. If I were a conservative, I'd be embarrassed.

The Hero Zone's picture
The Hero Zone

Setting your broad generalizations and undefined words aside, have you considered this?

Why must a bill be "paid for" that allows for a refinance? In other words who set the higher interest rate which itself doesn't seem to actually be touched. Instead the 7% is still paid, just half of it by someone else. Why?

Who not only set the 7% figure but is somehow magically holding the entirety of Congress hostage over it. Why is this the one figure they pivot around and honor instead of addressing it?

It makes absolutely no sense for anyone in government to point to that number as being whatever it is and pretend like it is immutable or somehow exists outside the realm of law. Why don't I just put a menacing-looking mannequin outside your window and then scare you into buying my protection service to keep him away. All you have to do is pay me and I won't pick it up and bring it closer to the house, causing you to panic as you see it move closer BY MY OWN HAND as I ask you for protection money. The best part is? You never blame nor question me for this tactic. You just expect it and thank me for keeping the mannequin away.

Sounds like Congress is a lot like Paulie from Goodfellas...

Henry Hill: [narrating] Now the guy's got Paulie as a partner. Any problems, he goes to Paulie. Trouble with the bill? He can go to Paulie. Trouble with the cops, deliveries, Tommy, he can call Paulie. But now the guy's gotta come up with Paulie's money every week, no matter what. Business bad? [F] you, pay me. Oh, you had a fire? [F] you, pay me. Place got hit by lightning, huh? [F] you, pay me.

The Big Dog's back

Ground control to Major hz.

The Hero Zone's picture
The Hero Zone

What's your vector, Victor?

EDIT: Actually after I thought about it for a moment it makes sense. If Congress doesn't touch the 7% interest figure they can always bring this issue up whenever they want to stir up the pot quickly prior to elections. If they actually just legislated the rate lower the population wouldn't be able to be upset and they wouldn't be able to use human beings as leverage for their policies such as a tax increase for something that never has to be "paid for" to begin with...

Huh. Well isn't that something. Barely any of them rotate out of office and so here we are with the same problems and non-solutions that we have been for years. Nothing gets done except continually re-electing the mannequen-placers outside our windows save on very rare occasions.

Congress creates a problem. Congress wants to address the results of the problem instead of fixing the problem itself thereby eliminating the results as well. Clever.

KURTje

Its okay. Got an idea the next CIC will not be from the GOP. Those out of touch people have angered too many everyday people for too long.

SamAdams

Not to worry, KURTje. A few more years of Obama's rule, followed by a few years of a Clinton (or other progressive) rule, and there won't be ANY everyday people left to be angered. The country will be filled with the poor, the REALLY poor, and a smattering of the very, very rich. If it makes you feel any better, guess which class Obama himself will be a member of?

Nemesis

The problem is that tuition has increased at a rate far above inflation. And why do you think that is? Why hasn't the price of cars, electronics, food, or even gas kept up with the price of college?

It's that same old law of supply and demand. Government financial aid increases demand, and the need-based model makes that demand incredibly elastic. If GM increased car prices, it sells fewer cars, if Samsung increases TV prices, it sells fewer TV's. A university never has to worry about how many students it will lose when it increases tuition, because the need-based formula will take up the slack.

There is no ECONOMIC competition between schools - quite the opposite - they race to have the HIGHEST, not the lowest price. They're in a tuition arms race - at least one CWRU board member once went on record that they had to raise their tuition because Carnegie Mellon raised theirs - it sounded like the alarmed exclamations about the mine shaft gap at the end of Dr. Strangelove.

The dominant outcome of government financial aid is that universities are swollen with unqualified students pursuing dumbed-down degrees in nonsense majors, many of whom never graduate. They don't make careful, well considered decisions about their education because they are spending someone else's money.

The Hero Zone's picture
The Hero Zone

I agree with your point. Is it reasonable, do you think, that even if we supported this practice it could lead to some kind of rationing of degrees? Similar to how we already see student loans forgiven if you work at a specific place or location? In other words if the national database shows we have too many business majors, it will refuse funding for those who want to be in business and "encourage" study elsewhere?

If it weren't already kind of happening even I would agree it would be a stretch.

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Teacher Loan Forgiveness

If you are a teacher and also a new borrower (i.e., you did not have an outstanding balance on a Direct Loan or FFEL Program loan on Oct. 1, 1998, or on the date you obtained a Direct Loan or FFEL Program loan after Oct. 1, 1998) and have been teaching full-time in a low-income elementary or secondary school or educational service agency for five consecutive years, you may be able to have as much as $17,500 of your subsidized or unsubsidized loans forgiven. Your PLUS loans cannot be included. For more information, go to Teacher Loan Forgiveness. If you have a Federal Perkins Loan, see Perkins Loan Cancellation for teacher cancellation in that loan program.

Public Service Loan Forgiveness

If you are employed in certain public service jobs and have made 120 payments on your Direct Loans (after Oct. 1, 2007), the remaining balance that you owe may be forgiven. Only payments made under certain repayment plans may be counted toward the required 120 payments. You must not be in default on the loans that are forgiven. For more information, go to Public Service Loan Forgiveness.

https://studentaid.ed.gov/repay-...

Nemesis

"do you think, that even if we supported this practice it could lead to some kind of rationing of degrees? ... In other words if the national database shows we have too many business majors, it will refuse funding for those who want to be in business and "encourage" study elsewhere?"

If banks were issuing student loans in a free market without government guarantees, they would be doing something like that - they'd look at the student's academic record, school choice, and major, and look at the probable ROI to determine risk. Government doesn't think like that, so a medeival poetry major is just as eligible for the same loan terms as a chemical engineering major. Witness that university education programs are at capacity, in complete disregard for the fact that birthrates are down and it's a shrinking market. That's why teachers are unionized like unskilled laborers - they've destroyed their free market value by flooding the market.

Rosa

Some states are going to try and offer free community college right after high school graduation to students, and use money from the lottery to pay for it. I think that is a step in the right direction and it is about time to use that money for something useful.
Many other countries offer free public college education, but we cannot even offer interest free education. But we can keep financing these ridiculous, wasteful wars, and bail out the biggest crooks on earth, banks and Wall Street, and they still receive bonuses that amount to more than most of us, peons, will make in a lifetime.. Sorry, ranting...

Contango

Re: "Many other countries offer free public college education,"

They tend to pick only the 'best and brightest' students and the competition is fierce.

Apples and oranges.

Approx. 69% U.S. student leave college without graduating. "Free money" down the toilet.

The Big Dog's back

pooh, not everyone is cut out for college.

Contango

Re: "not everyone is cut out for college,"

Thank you for daily helping to 'brilliantly' illustrate that fact. :)

"You know, education, if you make the most of it, if you study hard and you do your homework, and you make an effort to be smart, uh, you, you can do well. If you don’t, you get stuck in Iraq."

- John Kerry, 2006

'Great' words to live by. What a guy!

http://www.outsidethebeltway.com...

dontknowmuch

many like BD couldn't hack college...easier to be coddled by a union (and produce inferior crap like GM seems to be pumping out these days in recall mania)

SamAdams

Agreed. So how 'bout we split the difference and only those who ARE cut out for college (smart enough, motivated enough, and can pass tests accordingly) get to attend on the taxpayer's dime? That means NO racial preferences, NO legacy preferences, and NO consideration based on personal wealth. The top however many test takers get in. The bottom however many don't. Deal?

grumpy

But, but it has to look like America and not some racist, asian, white, female, dominaated group that get into college. It has to be the right percentage of race, the right percentage of all 5 genders, the right percentage of straight gay, bi, asexuals and any other sub group, and the "middle class" has to be well represented and then there is the mentally challenged that need to be part of the mix. Other than that there are probably a few more groups that need protected status, let alone those whose parents graduated from that college, you can't forget them. What about those who don't do well on tests? how will you treat them? You are not allowing for everyone to get a "fair share". It is not what the US stands for. All groups must be accommodated. That is the only way to give a "fair share" to each and every American or illegal alien, or terrist who wants a college education.

The Big Dog's back

You really are despicable.

grumpy

Ah another who believes he "deserves" a fair share of what other people have. Thanks for being an example... again. You really shine being an example.

Nemesis

"That means NO racial preferences, NO legacy preferences, and NO consideration based on personal wealth. The top however many test takers get in. The bottom however many don't. Deal?"

Yes, and no. If a billionaire's underachieving kid wants to spend his OWN trust fund money taking art appreciation and victim's studies courses, it's none of our business, but if you want OUR money, then we should be allowed to choose investments that yield a decent return.

Nemesis

"pooh, not everyone is cut out for college."

THAT'S THE POINT!!!!!!!!! However, our financial aid system gives anyone money for college, whether they're suited or not.

Informed

You can blame high school counselors and administrators for students pursuing college when they aren't suited. Instead of finding ways to guide a student who is not college material into something else (vocational training, military, work) they push them into college to make their numbers look better. The local schools in this area are really bad about this. God forbid someone be honest with some of these kids.

Nemesis

"Some states are going to try and offer free community college right after high school graduation to students, and use money from the lottery to pay for it. I think that is a step in the right direction."

But it's not, for the reasons I already pointed out. It will just flood community colleges with underqualified students wasting everyone's time by taking meaningless courses.

"Many other countries offer free public college education, but we cannot even offer interest free education"

If you look closer, you'll find it's not the free for all our system is. The most successful countries offering that start weeding out who will be allowed to go to university very early on. In some, you take a very tough test in 8th grade, and if you don't pass it, you can't even go to a college-preparatory high school and get the chance in four years to take the exam that gets you into university.

Informed

Remember that the next time some tries to say how bad our public high school system ranks compared to the rest of the world. It's comparing apples and oranges.

Nemesis

No, because they ALL go to high school and they ALL get included in the comparison. Their vocational high school grads are better qualified than many of the kids we send to college. A lot of the ones who get their act together AFTER failing to get into the college prep high schools come here and kick butt in our universities.

Informed

No, they don't go to "high school". They go to vocational school and they do not take the tests that are counted in those comparisons.
Their special needs students are also not included in those comparisons--ours are. And there are lots of them. All it takes is a few severely disabled students to skew the whole average.
You are still comparing apples to oranges no matter how you slice it.

KURTje

Sam have we ever had a poor CIC? Even recent events regarding Lincoln's childhood shed light on interesting things. See our leadership for the most part does not care about you or me. imo 1 group is worse than the other. Kinda like Chris Rock's analogy on whose the bigger liar ...men or women?