Analysts say health care law means fewer on job

With health care less expensive for those who work fewer hours, some believe it will be a disincentive for people to work full-time
Associated Press
Feb 5, 2014

Several million American workers will cut back their hours on the job or leave the nation's workforce entirely because of President Barack Obama's health care overhaul, congressional analysts said Tuesday, adding fresh fuel to the political fight over "Obamacare."

The workforce changes would mean nationwide losses equal to 2.3 million full-time jobs by 2021, in large part because people would opt to keep their income low to stay eligible for federal health care subsidies or Medicaid, the Congressional Budget Office said. It had estimated previously that the law would lead to 800,000 fewer jobs by that year.

Republican lawmakers seized on the report as major new evidence of what they consider the failures of Obama's overhaul, the huge change in U.S. health coverage that they're trying to overturn and planning to use as a main argument against Democrats in November's midterm elections.

It's the latest indication that "the president's health care law is destroying full-time jobs," said Republican Rep. John Kline of Minnesota, chairman of the House Education and the Workforce Committee. "This fatally flawed health care scheme is wreaking havoc on working families nationwide," he said.

But the White House said the possible reduction would be due to voluntary steps by workers rather than businesses cutting jobs — people having the freedom to retire early or spend more time as stay-at-home parents because they no longer had to depend only on their employers for health insurance.

The law means people "will be empowered to make choices about their own lives and livelihoods," said White House Press Secretary Jay Carney.

CBO Director Douglas Elmendorf said the top reasons people would reduce work would be to qualify for subsidized coverage and an expanded Medicaid program but that lower wages — because of penalties on employers who don't provide coverage and looming taxes on generous health care plans — would also be a factor.

The agency also reduced its estimate of the number of uninsured people who will get coverage through the health care law. The budget experts now say 1 million more people will be uninsured this year than had been expected, partly because of the website problems that prevented people from signing up last fall.

However, it wasn't all bad news for the Obama administration. The CBO's wide-ranging report predicted that the federal budget deficit will fall to $514 billion this year, down from last year's $680 billion and the lowest by far since Obama took office five years ago.

The new estimates also say that the health care law will, in the short run, benefit the economy by boosting demand for goods and services because the lower-income people it helps will have more purchasing power. The report noted that the 2014 premiums that people pay for exchange coverage are coming in about 15 percent lower than projected, and the health care law, on balance, still is expected to reduce the federal deficit.

However, the budget experts see the long-term federal deficit picture worsening by about $100 billion a year through the end of the decade because of slower growth in the economy than they had previously predicted.

As for health care signups, the website woes have largely been cleared up, but the nonpartisan congressional analysts estimated that about 1 million fewer people will enroll through the new insurance exchanges than had been expected this year, for a total of 6 million.

Enrollment is predicted to pick up, topping 20 million in 2016. The exchanges, or online marketplaces, offer subsidized private coverage and cater mainly to middle-class people who don't have health care on the job.

The Congressional Budget Office also revised its Medicaid enrollment projection downward by about 1 million, for a new total of 8 million signups in 2014. About half the states have accepted the health law's Medicaid expansion.

What about those people whose decisions about work might be affected by the new law?

Lower-wage workers are more likely to reduce their hours or quit their jobs because of Obamacare incentives, the report said.

Although some employers will choose not to hire additional workers, or will reduce hours, the budget office said that does not appear to be the main factor.

"The estimated reduction stems almost entirely from a net decline in the amount of labor that workers choose to supply, rather than from a net drop in businesses' demand for labor," the report said.

The health care analysis is layered with complexity. The job losses are measured in "full-time-equivalent workers," which means more people are actually affected than, say, the 2 million full-time-equivalent jobs lost in 2017. It could take several part-time workers or people deciding to reduce their hours to produce the wage loss of one full-time equivalent.

The report also contains an important caveat, that the estimate of job losses is "subject to substantial uncertainty" and could be larger or smaller than predicted. There now are more than 130 million jobs in the economy.

Meanwhile, the broad federal deficit projection shows another yearly improvement. Obama inherited an economy in crisis and the first deficits ever to exceed $1 trillion. The 2009 total, swelled by the costs of the Wall Street bailout, hit a record $1.4 trillion, while the deficits of 2010 and 2011 each registered $1.3 trillion.

The agency sees the deficit sliding to $478 billion next year before beginning a steady rise years through 2024 that would bring the annual imbalance back above $1 trillion. Overall, it forecasts deficits totaling $7.3 trillion over the coming decade, about $1 trillion more than previously estimated.

"CBO expects that economic growth will diminish to a pace that is well below the average seen over the past several decades," the report said, citing an aging population and a decrease in the rate of growth in the labor force.

Tuesday's report comes as Obama and Republicans in Congress are taking a respite in the budget wars that have periodically consumed Washington since Republicans took control of the House in 2011. The declining deficit numbers mean they could feel even less urgency to act now.

A December budget agreement and last month's follow-up spending bill could buy peace through November's midterm elections. Republicans also appear to be taking a less confrontational approach to legislation needed this month to increase the government's borrowing limit to avoid defaulting on its obligations.

Comments

GoBigLex2001

Imagine that! Not surprised. Obama sucks!

ladylake

I truly believe he is intentionally trying to bring this county to ruin.

coasterfan

Stop listening to Fox, et al, and you won't have to worry about your head being filled with rubbish. It's amusing the baloney that some people actually believe.

Darwin's choice

"It's amusing the baloney that some people actually believe"

Hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha!!!!!!

You should take a good look in the mirror troll boy!!!

Obamabot!

Uncommon Sense

I am against Obama and most of his policies. I get my news from many media sources. I think anyone, whether it be you or Obama himself, that believes Fox News is to blame for my and like minded people's views of what is happening in our country is wearing a blind fold and doesn't want to accept the realities of what Obama and democrats have done. It is not Fox News that created record deficits. It is not Fox News that created the many scandals of Obama's administration. It is not Fox News that passed the [un]Affordable Care Act. Stop blaming a news outlet for the problems that were brought on by the president, poor congressional leaders like Harry Reid and Nancy "We have to pass the bill to see what's in it" Pelosi.

Uncommon Sense

I am against Obama and most of his policies. I get my news from many media sources. I think anyone, whether it be you or Obama himself, that believes Fox News is to blame for my and like minded people's views of what is happening in our country is wearing a blind fold and doesn't want to accept the realities of what Obama and democrats have done. It is not Fox News that created record deficits. It is not Fox News that created the many scandals of Obama's administration. It is not Fox News that passed the [un]Affordable Care Act. Stop blaming a news outlet for the problems that were brought on by the president, poor congressional leaders like Harry Reid and Nancy "We have to pass the bill to see what's in it" Pelosi.

John Harville

Ya thought it was so nice you posted it twice? Do you even know how to edit out a double post?

There you go again

I think they should post a third time....just to irritate you. Rather petty, don't you think, Harville?

Contango

Re: "Stop listening to Fox,"

Begs the question:

So WHAT should one watch, read & listen to in order to get one's head thinking politically correct as you believe it to be?

Brick Hamland

I have seen first hand part time people turn down full time work within the same onrganization stating "I would lose my government benefits, because of my food benefits I would make less if i worked full time." That is becoming the new america, and the best part of it is the Democrats also like to demonize being wealthy...

anthras

coasterfan

"CBO expects that economic growth will diminish to a pace that is well below the average seen over the past several decades, the report said, citing an aging population and a decrease in the rate of growth in the labor force."

As you can see coasterfan the information is not made up by Fox they are reporting what the CBO reported and the WH will try to spin that Obamacare will give the people a choice of working more or less hours the report advises that the economic growth will diminish causing a smaller labor force and I fail to see any advantages of a smaller labor force.

John Harville

Cherry picker AKA anthras. Did you read the remainder of the report that says overall job growth and the economy will strengthen in the next decade?....evan as early as 2017?

Of course not.... that would make you fair and balanced in your thinking and posting.

Look at the comments on here that are negative toward Obama but say nothing about Congress or the actual facts of the report.

anthras

Johnny Harville, I am sorry for cherry picking however my main point was that Fox was just reporting on the CBO report not just fabricating the news. At this time I am not sure the economy will strengthen soon. I just read that Tim Armstrong CEO of AOL just announced that Obamacare will cost AOL an additional 7.1 million. They will either ask their employees to increase their contribution for the health care or reduce their 401K contributions and they will pay that in one lump sum at the end of the year ergo any employee that might quit before the end of the year would not collect for that year.If a person would quit in Dec. they would lose out on 11 months of contributions. Either way it would mean less income for the employees to pump into the economy.

Also by persons having the incentive to work less to make less income to avoid higher premiums does not seem to be congruent to a growing economy

pntbutterandjelly

To John Harville. "Clap" "Clap" Clap" (Well said Sir! Well said!)

*Some people just like to listen to what is convenient to their way of thinking. "Ignorance is bliss" comes to mind.

goofus

Only if you quit listening to MSNBC and the other leftist lame stream media

pntbutterandjelly

*If you take prescription drugs at full price and can't get them from Canada (or elsewhere) where they are cheaper than what we in the U.S. are charged and you don't care...then you must be for corporate profits.
*If you don't mind having massive health care insurance premiums...then you must be for corporate profits.
*If you feel the out of control costs at the doctor's office is justified...then you must be for corporate profits.
*If it's okay with you that the rest of the civilized world has universal health care and we don't...you must be for corporate profits.
*If you thinks it's fine and dandy that the FDA is allowing 3,000 (+) untested drugs to be sold...then you must be for corporate profits.
*If you thinks it's a great idea for your tax dollars to help subsidize Walmart (and others) under-paid employees...then you must be for corporate profits.
*If you feel people who make minimum wages (or less like your waitress) are living a life of ease...then you must be for corporate profits.
*If you feel it's fair to punish the poor while sending BILLIONS to fight immoral and illegal wars...then you must be for corporate profits.
*If you feel that having just 1% of the population owning 95% of the wealth is a good idea...then you must be for corporate profits.
*If you think the banks didn't create the "Banking Crisis" for their own benefit...then you must be for corporate profits.
*If you think sending over 12,000,000 American jobs overseas was brought on by the same people who lost their jobs...then you must be for corporate profits.
*If you think those with money SHOULD have their own private lobbyists...then you must be for corporate profits.
*If you thinks being able to contribute untold (and un-documented) sums to political campaigns is the right thing to do...then you must be for corporate profits.
*If you think Dwight D. Eisenhower was being a Liberal, Communist or Progressive smuck when he said, "Beware of the Military-Industrial Complex...then you must be for corporate profits.
*If you think our generally stagnant or declining standard of living is caused by natural forces...then you must be for corporate profits.
*If you think we normal citizens should be taxed at the rates we are while corporations often get of tax-free...then you must be for corporate profits.
If you think some of the uber-wealthy should have tax-free, off-shore tax havens without any penalties...then you must be for corporate profits.
*If you think cutting out (or eliminating all together) benefits to the elderly, disabled or mentally-challenged is the right thing to do...then you must be for corporate profits.
*If you think de-funding our school systems is smart while expanding our burgeoning military expenditures...then you must be for corporate profits.
*If you aren't part of Wall Street's "Inner Circle" is wonderful...then you must be for corporate profits.
*If you think that the housing market calamity wasn't man-made...then you are for corporate profits.
*If you think forcing the Post Office to prefund its retirement and then profess it to be an "insolvent", "inefficient" and "archaic" program isn't a ploy to privatize it...then you must be for corporate profits.
*If you think selling our highway system to China is a great idea...then you must be for corporate profits.
*If you think naming our sports stadiums after the highest corporate bidder is great...then you must be for corporate profits.
*If you think the Federal Reserve Board is a governmental entity...then you must be for corporate profits.
*If you think it's okay for corporate heads to be above the law...then you must be for corporate profits.
*If you think having a highly divided and rapidly growing class system of the "haves" and "have-nots" is a good thing...(fill in the blanks).
PS. I'm just getting warmed up with these samples of New World Order realities!

The Big Dog's back

Amen!

The Hero Zone's picture
The Hero Zone

I agree with some, disagree with other points above, but my overwhelming question is: why are you against a company making money? What do you think a company does with its profit? Who gets to decide how much a person or company is "worth" or allowed to make? Ultimately...

What is the purpose of a business?

The Big Dog's back

"What do you think a company does with its profit?"
Well, the big Corporations don't pay a living wage, so the rest of us have to pay for food stamps, healthcare, etc., for their employees.

pntbutterandjelly

To "The Hero Zone"; I am NOT against anyone, corporations included, making money. The question becomes, "Was it made legally and if so...was it made morally?" Then there is the follow-up question of, "What are you/they going to do with all the profits?" "Help someone else, hoard it or use it to their advantage?" Like...buying lobbyists and politicians. It is the later kind of people and corporate profits I am staunchly opposed to. "Liers, cheats and thieves I have no use for regardless of how much money they have or don't have. Those types need to be imprisoned.
The problem in our country has become the influence pedaling of the rich, by the rich and for the rich. It's a rigged game and the middle class and lower income class citizens are paying the price with their incomes, health, retirements and long-term future of our country as a whole. If this ugly portrait is not altered...we will eventually see castles being built just like the robber barons of old Europe did as they suppressed the citizens into a feudal system. A system of "haves" and "have nots".
It's amazing to me that more people don't look back at history and see it for it was and for what it could mean for us if we would only open our minds rather than our mouths.
Do NOT think that there aren't low-lifes out their who, like the corporations, suck off the system like leaches. They too are to blame but......they have little power nor do they rig the game. "THERE IS TOO MUCH MONEY IN THE POLITICAL GAME." "THIS is what MUST be changed or...our democracy is doomed. Doomed by the power-brokers. Doomed by the self-righteous. Doomed by the......greedy.
Too may citizens blame their neighbors as they otherwise feel the "Untouchables" are untouchable. So...it's far easier to blame some small portion of our everyday citizenry. That fact plays right into the power boys hands for the more they can confuse us the more they can divide us the more they can control us. Adolph DID blame the Jews (and the Checks and the French and the British and the Poles, and the Gypsies and so on and so forth) and...it worked. It became a rally call to the remaining Germans and eventually ended... in their own demise. The game of "divide and conquer" is age old and we, the American citizens, all falling for it all over again.
Remember, "United we stand. Divided we fall." It's more than "just words".
Good luck working your way up the economic ladder because...it's now missing several important rungs. And furthermore...the less independent we are economically as individuals the more dependent we are on socialized handouts. Any yet...in today's televised broadcasts of "some" stations...they bash those who receive assistance! What a sham. What a contorted game. What a shame we have come to this point in our nation's history.
(We don't need more political parties. We need more informed and thinking voters. An educated electorate is feared by those *ell-bent on taking our freedoms through whatever means they can contrive. Now it has become MUCH easier to brainwash the public since we have so few televised news broadcasts to choose from. The trick is to read between the lines. stop blaming the everyday folks and get you news from a varied sources. "THAT" is a "fair and balanced" approach to decision making. (If you eat only beans...you'll get bean by-products. If you eat only corn...you get only corn by-products. If you eat beans and corn...you get succotash!)

Pass the succotash please.

Dr. Information

Worry about yourself, not about business's that you know nothing of, don't work for, nor understand.

Truth2u

Its not just him but the entire Democratic party, and lately with the support of legalizing criminal illegals I believe both parties have become insane or even worse, traitors to their oaths.

tbh

Just wondering how does health care ruin a country? Although I don't agree with much of Obama policies, no one has yet to explain how or why they are against health care??? And people who CHOOSE not to work is not Obama or anyone fault.

rbenn

Read the CBO report all will be revealed. http://www.washingtonpost.com/bu...

John Harville

So you send us to the Bozo.. uh, Bezos Version...of the news?

coasterfan

I agree with tbh. If people choose to work less hours, in order to keep their health care costs down, that is their choice.

Anyone who truly thinks the country is going to ruin in 2014 clearly has no concept of reality. Please take a look at 2008. I don't have a problem with people having a different opinion, but do have a problem when people insist on a different version of history.

Darwin's choice

"no concept of reality"

The story of you is writing itself!

Your daily cheerleading isn't going so well, troll. The daily failures of your messiah have taken their toll. the American people are seeing this terd for what he is.

Donegan

"I don't have a problem with people having a different opinion, but do have a problem when people insist on a different version of history."
That is hilarious coming from a Obama worshipper, You people have tried to rewrite history at every turn. Face it, Your from the party of Boss Tweed that panders to those who do not know history. For the last 150 years the democrats have stood for nothing more than slavery, Back then it was based on race, Today it is based on debt.

grumpy

Re: " If people choose to work less hours, in order to keep their health care costs down, that is their choice."

This is from someone who claims to be concerned about the "growing income inequality". He wants folks to be able to work less, and make less money so they can maintain their gov't subsidy. He thinks those are good things, yet thinks that those that work more to get ahead should have gov't take more away from those who try to get ahead. This is considered rational thinking by some on here. This is sad, just plain sad.

Uncommon Sense

It is the country's problem when people choose not to work so they can receive more tax money as a higher subsidy to pay for more of their health insurance premium. It's also bad for the economy when people make less money because those people then spend less money. Then there are fewer jobs since there is less money circulating in the economy.

So, coasterfan, in the end, people are not working less to keep their health care costs down, they are working less so they can transfer the cost of their care to someone else. The cost of the health care they receive will remain the same. It is just that tax dollars will be spent to pay for the cost of their care instead of their own money paying to support their own health and the overall economy will be worse for it.

John Harville

So people who retire and take SS and Medicare benefits for which they've paid for years and perhaps receive other subsidies are freeloaders?

JOBSJOBSJOBS! Where are they? If the Republicans/Boehner had lived up to their 2010 promises - instead of voting 47 ties to repeal the AHCA - then all the unemployed young people wouldn't be finding a way to live off the teat.

Dr. Information

Jobs Jobs is exactly what Obama said he will bring to this country. To bad they are all part time low paying jobs. Obamacare just wiped out any recent positive news.

Nemesis

"So people who retire and take SS and Medicare benefits for which they've paid for years and perhaps receive other subsidies are freeloaders?"

Many of them, yes, insofar as those programs function as wealth redistribution for a significant percentage of their clients. If someone gets more than what they paid in would get them from a private, free will retirement plan, then yes, that's freeloading. A lot of us will get back far less than we'd get if we put the same money in a private plan. We're just the hosts.

John Harville

DIFFERENT LABOR REBELLION... Instead of employers cutting more and more full-time jobs or scheduling employers for just less than full-time benefit hours (which has been the trend for almost a decade) EMPLOYEES now will be opting for benefits without relying on an employer.
The study ALSO says it will take three part-time employees to fill the void of on fulltime employee retiring, quitting, or 'downsizing'.
Employers long have been working to 'part-time employ' to avoid paying benefits (how many part-time employees do you know? how many part-time employees with benefits do you know)
A DIFFERENT TYPE of employee 'strike'.
BRIGHT SIDE... there are thousands, maybe millions of unemployed ready to step into those jobs with just enough hours they still can qualify for government assistance.
If there is a crisis, the corporations and employers have created it. Karma is a witch!

Nemesis

" If people choose to work less hours, in order to keep their health care costs down, that is their choice."

Their choice, as you put it, is to psss along their costs to others, rather than be responsible for themselves. The problem is that those to whom they pass their costs don't get a choice.

Donegan
Darwin's choice

Great video! Isn't that one fool coasterfan?

mikesee

The less they work the less they make. The less they make the more they receive in subsidy. Get it?

So much for income equality!

John Harville

And you think this just happened?
Welcome to world of the minimum-wage, part-time workers who serve you EVERYWHERE you go.
This isn't a new phenomenom.
Employers have been reducing hours for YEARS to keep from paying insurance.
Finally the government is going to do the job not being done by FREE ENTERPRISE.

tbh

Who is they? I work for the largest healthcare system in the state of Ohio. The they you are referring to are older die hard white republicans who don't work or are laid off due to they never went to college, went straight to the local steel mill right after high school and thought that factory would never figured out a way to make more profits with less workers.

The "they" always come in and complain about the very system they are taking advantage of? Healthcare is not a right or left issue "get it"? When you are laying half dead in the emergency room or for that matter your child or parent, NOBODY says "hey doc don't treat me because I'm against the Obama healthcare system".

@mikesee, do you know what a subsidy is? Our government gave 10 banks over 2 trillion dollars so they could pay their bills and protect them from going under? two trillion dollars would cover healthcare for every american for the next 20 years! @donegan Stop posting videos and post some hard facts.

Donegan

That video struck to close to home huh?
Here's a hard fact. The CBO said that your presidents signature piece of legislation will kill another 2 million jobs. Why would you still trust a admin who signed in a bill they never even read that is destroying peoples lives and their future? Oh why do i even bother.
To those who are already struggling this is a kick in the guts.

John Harville

The CBO also identified many of those '2 million jobs' as jobs held by the Baby Boomers who are retiring in record numbers. The CBO also said they didn't consider the 'full-time-equivalent' workers waiting to fill the void.
How many jobs are being eliminated by large corporations closing stores, terminating people, upscaling to replace humans with computers?
But you just go right ahead and jump on the President and pay no attention to your Republican/Tea Party who campaigned on JOBSJOBSJOBS!!!!!
Where are they?

Donegan

H.R. 872—Reducing Regulatory Burdens Act
H.R. 910—Energy Tax Prevention Act of 2011
H.J.Res. 37—Disapproving the rule submitted by the Federal Communications Commission with respect to regulating the Internet and broadband industry practices
H.R. 1230—Restarting American Offshore Leasing Now Act
H.R. 1229—Putting the Gulf of Mexico Back to Work Act
H.R. 1231—Reversing President Obama's Offshore Moratorium Act
H.R. 2021—The Jobs and Energy Permitting Act of 2011
H.R. 2018—Clean Water Cooperative Federalism Act of 2011
H.R. 1315—Consumer Financial Protection & Soundness Improvement Act
H.R. 1938— North American-Made Energy Security Act
H.R. 2587—Protecting Jobs From Government Interference Act
H.R. 2401—Transparency In Regulatory Analysis Of Impacts On The Nation
H.R. 2681—Cement Sector Regulatory Relief Act
H.R. 2250—EPA Regulatory Relief Act
H.R. 2273—Coal Residuals Reuse and Management Act
H.R. 2433—Veterans Opportunity to Work Act
H.R. 674—To amend the Internal Revenue Code of 1986 to repeal the imposition of 3 percent withholding on certain payments made to vendors by government entities
H.Con.Res. 34—Budget for Fiscal Year 2012
All of these were either not even brought to the floor of the senate for a vote or dismissed out right by the democrats. Guess you havent noticed because your too busy on your knees begging for the al powerful Obama to help you. Oh look Wall street just got another 85 billion, Bet your proud.

mikesee

tb (get checked for it) He11 yes I know what a subsidy is. Don't forget that the feds also "subsized" GM and Chrysler with bailout money only to be rewarded with them moving more of their jobs overseas.

Personal responsibility, learn it tbh!

Contango

Re: "two trillion dollars would cover healthcare for every american for the next 20 years!"

And the U.S. would tax, print or borrow that funding from where?

Let's also remember the massive trillions of dollars of projected unfunded liablities of Soc. Sec. & Medicare and Medicaid.

anthras

tbh, If they went straight to the unionized steel mill they would most likely be Democrats. In my Bible study class there are 5 doctors, an attorney 2 business owners, a president of a large regional company and others. I would venture to say that 98% are Republican.

two trillion dollars would cover healthcare for every american for the next 20 years! Not sure how you figure just multiply 315 million by 20 years and what do you come up with? I hardly think 2T would do the job.

4-wheeler al

all the nations in the world with health care they are doing great. the nations with health care they make it work. the people that are trying too stop health care are the ones who owns health co. All the law makers state and fed. tax payers gives them best health care to them. they say we cant have it but keep paying for them

The Hero Zone's picture
The Hero Zone

"The law means people 'will be empowered to make choices about their own lives and livelihoods,' said White House Press Secretary Jay Carney."

The term being emailed out and parroted on TV (and we may see here in stories or by commentators) is "job lock". The references are that you are forced into a job you don't think is perfect and are only working full time with benefits not for the income or providing for your family but because you are beholden for the health insurance. Keep your eyes and ears open for "job lock" and the explanation that this loss of full time work is actually empowering people.

I think that Congress is "job locked" pretty severely, especially the one party that gave us this policy of freedom, financial responsibility, and ultimate liberty. We should perhaps sever them from their benefits for their own good. You know, give them all that freedom they are giving us?

Remember what the Ministry of Truth reminds us all:

WAR IS PEACE.
FREEDOM IS SLAVERY.
IGNORANCE IS STRENGTH.

Only...

UNEMPLOYMENT IS JOB FREEDOM.
IMPACTS OF LAWS ARE VOLUNTARY ACTION.
TRUST IS MANDATORY.

John Harville

HZ... don't try to pretend you're intelligent by misquoting literary works.

The Hero Zone's picture
The Hero Zone

Please correct me then. I am all eyes and ears. How/where did I misquote and in what way does it not support the sentiment attached?

Donegan

John is just Big dog under another name. He has done this before. If he is not you cannot tell the difference anyways as they never post facts just opinions that cannot be substantiated.

Nemesis

Hero Zone has consistently demonstrated a better grasp of logic than you have.

jibber jabber

WHAT really is HAPPENING is; all those people that work a SECOND job to pay for medical care, WELL guess what, they will QUIT there 2nd JOB and there will be MILLIONS of jobs avialable.
Why YOU show more REPUBLICAN scare tactics, so Stop.

There you go again

Million of PART TIME jobs will be available. So these PT folks will receive subsidies (paid by who?) to support t heir lifestyle. Hardly a winner!

John Harville

Check it out at the local JobStore or in the ads here. The only jobs available are part-time so EMPLOYERS don't have to pay benefits.
Pretend you don't have a job and begin applying for a job. Come back in a coupla days and tell us how many full-time jobs you find to apply for... or for that matter, ho many part-time jobs.

Dr. Information

You can thank Bozo and his signature Obozocare for your first 2 sentences. Bozocare = jobs killer.

Nemesis

I get unsolicited emails from Linked In with DOZENS of good full time positions every week. I also get at least one cold call a month from a recruiter about a full time position.

Steve P

deer in the headlights, always blame Fox, the liberal New York Times yesterday; "2.5 million less working will be liberating." Yet another benefit for the entitlement crew paid for by the working middle class.

Contango

But, but Rep. Pelosi said that Obama☭are would CREATE 4 million NEW jobs????

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n...

John Harville

Contango... but but butt... John Boehner and Eric Cantor and Mitch McConnell said in 2010 and again in 2012 that job one for Republicans would be JOBS! JOBS! JOBS! and that if we just elected them the economy would GROW! GROW! GROW! with millions of new jobs. They said the deficit would be cut.
Oh! It HAS BEEN! By about half of the $1.4 Trillion in 2010.
And your beloved CBO says that downward trend ALSO is the responsibility of this president.

Contango

Re: "deficit would be cut."

So tell me: Why does the federal debt ceiling need to be raised from $17.1T if the deficit is declining?

The Big Dog's back

Interest.

Nemesis

interest payments on the debt represent less then 8% of the federal budget.

The Hero Zone's picture
The Hero Zone

Oh I know! Pick me, pick me! My hand's up and everything!

Dr. Information

Obama said Obamacare (ACA) would CREATE jobs not KILL jobs. This guy is full of lies once again. The people that continue to support him are as ignorant as he is.

John Harville

Dr Misinformation: JOBS! JOBS! JOBS! The GOP mantra in 2010 and 2012. Yet not even ONE jobs-generating bill has been proposed by Republicans IN EITHER HOUSE.
They said cutting the deficit and taxes would inspire the 'job creators' to produce JOBS! JOBS! JOBS!.
Obama has cut the deficit by half. And the upper 2% have the lowest rates and more wealth than the 98%.
Your CBO gods support all of what I just wrote.
So... GOP et al... put up or shut up.
JOBS! JOBS! JOBS!

Dr. Information

Jobs jobs jobs Obama just isn't producing. ADHD Obama can't stick to one thing, a month from now it will be gun reform again.

Donegan

You do realize the CBO is made up of the peoples reps in government. You know the people that were elected to stop and create a check on the president? You are just mad your god has not created one job yet without killing 3 other jobs. Put up or shut up, More people have lost more under this president than in the history of the country. 17 trillion and counting, How much do you think you have lost?

John Harville

Subsidies. Remember that EVERY member of Congress is eligible for Medicare when they reach 65-68 years.

Nemesis

And your point is?

John Harville

VACANCIES will be occurring in record numbers REGARDLESS of any law or benefit.
BABY BOOMERS are retiring - some early on pensions they paid into for decades, others early on SS (and drawing Medicare Part A at 65,66,67) Many will take advantage of the UNFUNDED "Medicare Advantage" foisted on us by Bush and the GOP-controlled Congress. Thankfully the AHCA has provided a means to take a big bite out of the 'donut'.
With AHCA Baby Boomers holding on to jobs younger persons are waiting to step into now will retire with benefits they otherwise wouldn't have.
Baby Boomers ballooned the population by millions, overcrowding schools, presenting new healthcare problems - and moving into the workforce to make this country the most prosperous in the world.
Now it's time for us to retire and let our ZPG children and grandchildren in much smaller numbers move into the workforce - except our spaces are being taken by computers and robots.
Now Merca don't know what to do with this void it created.
Merca gonna pay the bill one way or another.... subsidize medical insurance by paying people to work part-time OR subsidize healthcare with higher insurance premiums for those who are 'personally responsible". Bullshirt!

John Harville

"personality responsibility" in the true American Dream means being responsible for one's position as a citizen of the larger population. It means providing for other citizens in the full realization that not everyone is dealt and equal hand, an even chance, an equal starting place.
"personality responsibility" means you can't keep taking advantage of all that's offered without making sure it's there for others.
"personal responsibility" means giving up taking every opportunity offered without paying for it. You wanna drive on good streets, you pay taxes. You expect the fire department to respond, you pay taxes. You expect quality healthcare? You have to help provide it for others.
If you don't like it the way it is here, LEAVE.

Dr. Information

ANDDDDD there you have it folks. Johnny boy just laid out the Socialist mantra for all to see. In his eyes you not only have to take care of yourself, but all the laziness in this country. If everyone would stop wanting something for nothing and would go out and work, we wouldn't have an issue. Of course, according to you, those people just didn't get their fair shot right? BTW, you can leave OR you can just write the IRS another check. Im sure they will take it. Redistribution of wealth doesn't work.

The Hero Zone's picture
The Hero Zone

Who are you who knows the hearts and minds of people he has never met to the point you both judge them uncaring about themselves or those around them? Then, in addition, DEMANDS of them to care about others in the way they perceive is right - whether the accuser actually follows that command or not. This implied hubris is offensive as is your presumption that "personality responsibility" is even a core tenant to culture or something you must force people to do.

So while you make up doublespeak words in a non-doubleplusgood way, here's a phrase that actually exists: Dependent personality disorder.

http://psychcentral.com/disorder...

Dependent personality disorder is characterized by a long-standing need for the person to be taken care of and a fear of being abandoned or separated from important individuals in his or her life. This leads the person to engage in dependent and submissive behaviors that are designed to elicit care-giving behaviors in others. The dependent behavior may be see as being “clingy” or “clinging on” to others, because the person fears they can’t live their lives without the help of others.

Individuals with Dependent Personality Disorder are often characterized by pessimism and self-doubt, tend to belittle their abilities and assets, and may constantly refer to themselves as “stupid.” They take criticism and disapproval as proof of their worthlessness and lose faith in themselves. They may seek overprotection and dominance from others. Occupational functioning may be impaired if independent initiative is required. They may avoid positions of responsibility and become anxious when faced with decisions. Social relations tend to be limited to those few people on whom the individual is dependent.

Symptoms of Dependent Personality Disorder
Dependent personality disorder is characterized by a pervasive fear that leads to “clinging behavior” and usually manifests itself by early adulthood. It includes a majority of the following symptoms:

**Has difficulty making everyday decisions without an excessive amount of advice and reassurance from others
**Needs others to assume responsibility for most major areas of his or her life
**Has difficulty expressing disagreement with others because of fear of loss of support or approval
**Has difficulty initiating projects or doing things on his or her own (because of a lack of self-confidence in judgment or abilities rather than a lack of motivation or energy)
**Goes to excessive lengths to obtain nurturance and support from others, to the point of volunteering to do things that are unpleasant
**Feels uncomfortable or helpless when alone because of exaggerated fears of being unable to care for himself or herself
**Urgently seeks another relationship as a source of care and support when a close relationship ends
**Is unrealistically preoccupied with fears of being left to take care of himself or herself

Nothing can be anyone's fault if nobody's anything, eh? So please, continue to preach as if you know who people are, what motivates them, and use your distorted measurement of a person's worth inflicted through a disassociated agency. In the mean time I will continue to happily pay for roads, the fire department, and take care of my own community like a individual, civil, caring human being.

The Big Dog's back

Ahhhh yes, mr. hz aka right winger.

The Hero Zone's picture
The Hero Zone

This is he, how may I help you?

Nemesis

"personality responsibility" in the true American Dream means being responsible for one's position as a citizen of the larger population. It means providing for other citizens...."

Translation: From each according to his abilities, to each according to his needs.

And in another thread you tried to claim you aren't a marxist.

mikesee

Interesting reading:

"Congressional Budget Office sends death blow to ObamaCare."

http://nypost.com/2014/02/05/con...

grumpy

Quote from the link above.

One killer detail comes on Page 111, where the report projects: “As a result of the ACA, between 6 and 7 million fewer people will have employment-based insurance coverage each year from 2016 through 2024 than would be the case in the absence of the ACA.”
ObamaCare’s key selling point was that it would give coverage to a significant number of the 30-plus million Americans who lack it. Now the CBO is telling the American people that a decade from now, 6 million-plus of their countrymen won’t get health care through their employers who otherwise would have.
Even more damaging is this projection: “About 31 million nonelderly residents of the United States are likely to be without health insurance in 2024, roughly one out of every nine such residents.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------

After all is said and done there will be no more people covered by healthcare than before, obamaScare, and 2 million+ fewer people working because of obamaScare, and 6 or 7 million people not getting healthcare insurance through work, because of obamaScare. This is the signature legislation from this administration. Obama passed this when he had a supermajority in the senate, and a majority in the house, instead of passing more of his unfulfilled promises he made when running in 08. Great decision. This is what was elected. Does anyone think we need more than 2 choices when voting? The 2 party system has failed. We need 4 or 5 parties that actually represent what the people want instead of representing the winger from each of the 2 parties. The wacco's in each party are the one in charge. We need more choices other than backing wingers.

Dr. Information

Lets not forget the penalties for having "better" insurance plans that kicks in I think in 2015. ACA = Anyone Can't Afford.

The Hero Zone's picture
The Hero Zone

Yup, people who dare to want "better" government dictated and mandated coverage to protect themselves and their families are the enemy. For their audacity to be able to afford a legal plan that others cannot they must be punished for following the rules. These responsible people sicken me and it's that kind of reckless, legal behavior that is hurting the middle class! Selfish capitalist pig-dogs who think their own lives or those of their immediate family are somehow better than anyone else that they don't even know. I bet they even think "if we can't take care of ourselves, how can we take care of others?". Hah! Their day has come. We will rise up with the private corporations our public tax dollars now directly subsidize and guarantee a profit for and... Wait, what?!

(sarcasm, but running a close parallel to reality)

Nemesis

How DARE people try to apply the fruits of their own labor to their own benefit?

The Big Dog's back

For years, Republicans have said that the president’s health care law creates uncertainty for small businesses, hurts take-home pay, and makes it harder to invest in new workers," Speaker John Boehner (R-OH) said in a statement. "The middle class is getting squeezed in this economy, and this CBO report confirms that ObamaCare is making it worse."

The New York Times summed it up by claiming that the CBO report is "providing Republican opponents of the law a powerful political weapon leading up to this year’s midterm elections."

But is that what the CBO actually said or meant? No.

What the CBO really found was that the numbers of hours worked would decrease under Obamacare, by roughly 1.5 percent to 2 percent between 2017 and 2024. The report then translated those lost hours into the equivalent of 2.5 million jobs. But that doesn't mean 2.5 million jobs are going to disappear from the U.S. economy.

The CBO report, in fact, specifically undermines that claim. Those lost hours will "almost entirely" be the result of people choosing to work fewer hours because of Obamacare -- not because they lost their jobs or can't find a full-time job.

The estimated reduction stems almost entirely from a net decline in the amount of labor that workers choose to supply, rather than from a net drop in businesses' demand for labor, so it will appear almost entirely as a reduction in labor force participation and in hours worked relative to what would have occurred otherwise rather than as an increase in unemployment (that is, more workers seeking but not finding jobs) or underemployment (such as part-time workers who would prefer to work more hours per week).

The report explicitly says that Obamacare isn't going to force businesses to cut jobs on any grand scale. What it is going to do is change how much Americans work.

"I think it’s important to distinguish between people choosing to work less and jobs being lost," Larry Levitt, vice president at the non-partisan Kaiser Famiy Foundation, told TPM. "That is something important to keep an eye on, since you don’t want to discourage work. But, it’s not in all cases a bad thing."

"For example, some people in their late 50s and early 60s would like to retire because they have health issues but have kept working for the health benefits. Some of them can now retire because they can’t be discriminated against for having a pre-existing condition and may get help paying their premiums."

grumpy

The above was copied and pasted from "Talking Points Memo blog, without reference from piddle puppy.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tal...

Talking Points Memo (or TPM) is a politically liberal web-based political journalism organization created and run by Josh Marshall, a journalist, liberal blogger[2] and historian.[3] It debuted on November 12, 2000. The name is a reference to the memo (short list) with the issues (points) discussed by ONE'S SIDE IN A DEBATE OR USED TO SUPPORT A POSITION TAKEN ON AN ISSUE.[4]

One side of the debate or issue is what piddle puppy is looking at when he researches an issue, as long as it is his side it is OK.

This is the quality of research we can see that piddle puppy relies on. A left wingnut political blog. And this is from someone who whines and says people are watching Fox News, when they disagree with him. Left wingnuts unite behind the piddle puppy, but wear your rubbers.

The Big Dog's back

Are there points you wish to dispute?

Donegan

The point i think is you cannot come up with a complete thought for yourself and it explains the fact you need someone else to think and act for you.

grumpy

I have already made my points 2 posts above yours. If you wish to refute, be my guest. I see no reason to reply to a left wingnut blog that you didn't even cite when you copied, and didn't even bother to acknowledge.

The Big Dog's back

So you believe everything the AP (Anti-Progressive) writes?

grumpy

Re: "So you believe everything the AP (Anti-Progressive) writes?"

Can you show me where I said that? Sad that you deflect quite so often. It gets meaningless to even read what you regurgitate from your left wingnut masters.

John Harville

THE CBO REALLY SAID... and Paul Ryan acknowledged the CBO said...

"On page 125 of the report, the CBO says that the ACA will leave millions of Americans with extra money to spend, and that spending result in increased consumer demand, “The net increase in demand for goods and services will in turn boost demand for labor over the next few years, CBO estimates.
"Those effects on labor demand tend to be especially strong under conditions such as those now prevailing in the United States, where output is so far below its maximum sustainable level that the Federal Reserve has kept short-term interest rates near zero for several years and probably would not adjust those rates to offset the effects of changes in federal spending and taxes.
"Over time, however, those effects are expected to dissipate as overall economic output moves back toward its maximum sustainable level.”
-- CBO Director Elmendorf.

grumpy

You know you should give credit to the left wingnut blogs when yiou copy and paste their content. Even an off beat left wingnut blog such as the one you ripped off.

Contango

Re: "estimates."

"Estimates" = all things being equal.

Just because they have extra money, it doesn't mean that they will necessarily "spend" it.

Many consumers use extra cash in order to pay down debt.

Nemesis

AND, they'll have that extra money because they get healthcare subsidies, which are funded by taking away someone else's "extra" money that they actually EARNED so they can't spend it.

John Harville

But what does he know?

Contango

Aetna, Cigna and Humana are all expecting to lose money on the healthcare exchanges " citing smaller-than-expected enrollment and a skew toward older enrollees."

2015 premiums could rise 10% or more.

If the trend continues, they may just pull out of the market.

Or, taxpayers will subsidize any losses to the ins. cos. in order the help hide the mess.

http://online.wsj.com/news/artic...

What do you expect when you've got a former accomplished community organizer acting as ringmaster of the circus?

coasterfan

This whole topic is a complete GOP whitewash. Here's why:

#1: These are mostly people who are choosing to not work anymore. They previously had to work (many well beyond retirement age) because it was the only way they could maintain health coverage. Now, thanks to the coverage they have via Obamacare, they are able to make the choice THEY want: to work part-time, full-time or retire completely, and STILL receive health care.

#2: those jobs didn't disappear. They are still there, and become job openings for those currently unemployed.

#3: Number of jobs lost during the Bush recession/financial collapse: 8.7 million. Number of jobs gained back under Obama: 7.8 million. And Boehner is going to lecture Democrats on jobs?

So, basically, most of the complaints we hear from conservatives can be summarized as: claims that Obama has been unable to "fix the stuff their guy screwed up" quickly enough, while they fight his every effort to turn things in a positive direction. That mindset loses any sense of credibility because they have been completely unwilling to acknowledge that things have gotten betTer.

It takes some serious mental gymnastics to get yourself to believe that America is worse off today than it was in 2008, when our economy was hemorrhaghing 800,000 jobs each month. Of course, these are people who actually thought Sarah Palin was an intelligent choice for VP.

Contango

Re: "Number of jobs gained back under Obama: 7.8 million."

You continue to overlook the Federal Resv.' s ZIRP & QE policies as the main drivers for any improvement in the economic picture.

http://economix.blogs.nytimes.co...

(It's from the NYT, so it's 'safe' for you to read.)

Asked repeatedly and never answered by you:

What EXACTLY are the policies of the former community organizer that are directly responsible for those employment numbers that you stated?

Obviously, in your rose-colored world he just had to 'show up'.

Regardless, with a historic low 63% U.S. labor force participation rate they're lousy.

H*ll, Rep. Pelosi and other progressive airheads claimed that Obam☭are would be a job creator. lol

The Big Dog's back

The economy had already lost 4.5 million jobs before President Barack Obama took office in January 2009, with job losses that month alone surging to 818,000. Economic contraction had also accelerated, reaching a staggering 8.9 percent annualized decline in the fourth quarter of 2008—the worst in 60 years. From this downward spiral, Obama's economic policies proved instrumental in generating and sustaining a recovery.

[See pictures of Obama's re-election campaign.]

In February 2009, Obama enacted the American Recovery and Reinvestment Act, and the pace of economic contraction and job loss immediately decelerated. As the stimulus ramped up, sustained economic growth took hold in mid-2009, and job growth resumed early in 2010—with 3.5 million jobs added since February 2010. The nonpartisan Congressional Budget Office estimates that without the Recovery Act, unemployment would have averaged roughly 10.7 percent in 2010, instead of 9.6 percent.

The Recovery Act was intended to jump-start the economy and avert a depression, not to restore full employment. The $831 billion price tag, spread over more than four years, was dwarfed by the staggering loss in economic activity caused by the bursting of the $7 trillion housing bubble. After economic growth resumed, mass unemployment and underemployment compelled more fiscal support. However, passing additional economic support through Congress proved a Herculean task.

In December 2010, the administration negotiated a payroll tax cut, continuation of emergency unemployment benefits, and targeted tax credits to sustain the delicate recovery as the stimulus began winding down. Without this boost, the economy would actually have slipped back into contraction in the first quarter of 2011.

[Opinion: Barack Obama's Un-Fair Energy Taxes.]

It should be noted that the Federal Reserve also deserves credit for extraordinary measures taken to resuscitate the financial sector and facilitate recovery. But the Fed had already maxed out its key policy lever, the federal funds rate, when Obama entered office; monetary policy could not have single-handedly revived the economy.

While the economy has improved greatly under Obama's stewardship, creating jobs for the millions of unemployed Americans who want to work remains imperative. In September 2011, Obama proposed the American Jobs Act, which would boost employment by roughly another 2 million jobs, according to numerous outside economists, including Mark Zandi.

Unfortunately, Obama's substantive jobs agenda continues to be undermined by congressional partisanship. While more must be done to restore full employment, it is unquestionable that President Obama's economic policies have been instrumental in ending the worst downturn since the Great Depression

Contango

Nice copy and paste from an opinion piece published almost two yrs. ago by lefty Andrew Fieldhouse, derpy.

"It should be noted that the Federal Reserve also deserves credit for extraordinary measures taken to resuscitate the financial sector and facilitate recovery."

He doesn't mention QE.

Progressive airheads blissfully continue to think that we can tax, borrow, print and spend our way to prosperity.

Warren Buffett called the Fed. Resv. history's greatest hedge fund.

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/20...

Hedge funds NEVER implode do they?

Ask Dem contributor Bernie Madoff.

grumpy

Piddle Puppy are your only so-called facts derived from left wingnut opinion pieces from left wingnt blogs? It makes it even more absurd when you complain about any linked opinion piece. You use wingnut opinion pieces for making factual points... or attempt to do so. You don't seem to good at doing it even though you won't give credit the the original writer or link to the opinion.

Contango

Andrew Fieldhouse, the writer of the piece is a member of the Economic Policy Institute.

One of the founders? Former Clinton Labor Sec'y Robt. Reich.

Robert Reich is on record of being pro infrastructure projects, but he also wants racial quotas.

Typical progressive; just throw taxpayer money down a 'vote buying' rat hole.

So much for the former community organizer's "jobs program."

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I...

http://www.epi.org/people/andrew...

anthras

coasterfan says :"#1: These are mostly people who are choosing to not work anymore. They previously had to work (many well beyond retirement age) because it was the only way they could maintain health coverage. Now, thanks to the coverage they have via Obamacare, they are able to make the choice THEY want: to work part-time, full-time or retire completely, and STILL receive health care.

Usually 65 is considered retirement age and that is when people receive medicare. Why would persons want to keep insurance if they have medicare?

Chuck U. Schumer said on meet the press Sunday that now if a single mother wishes to quit her job that she kept to have the insurance coverage now she could and stay home with the children with Obamacare. Is he saying that she will not have to pay for Obamacare as if she no longer has a job it would be difficult. Also I realize she will get a free Obama phone but who pays her rent, utilities, food, auto, clothes and other items?

rezzy

Different prices for different income earners? What the heck is going on here? I wish the King would realize that once those of us who work lose our incentive to work, the result will be less jobs and tax money to give to those less motivated workers.

Dr. Information

No worries. Obama just delayed the penalty for most business's today until 2016. How F'in convenient.

Also remember hospitals will be taking a huge hit due to Obamacare. Ask any nurse how many compliant patients they see. The numbers are low. People want a magic pill or want to do what they think is best, rarely listen to the advice a Dr. gives and the result is, waalaa, they are right back in the ER again for the same condition. Thanks to that lovely thing known as ACA, these repeat visits for the same condition will not be reimbursed. Small and large hospitals across this nation are about to go broke.