Democrats, GOP in shutdown staredown

Republicans willing to take risk to kill health care law
Associated Press
Sep 29, 2013

 

As the government teeters on the brink of a partial shutdown, congressional Republicans vowed Sunday to keep using an otherwise routine government funding bill to try to attack "Obamacare."

Congress was closed for the day after a post-midnight vote in the GOP-run House to delay by a year key parts of the new health care law and repeal a tax on medical devices, in exchange for avoiding a shutdown. The Senate is slated to convene Monday afternoon just hours before the shutdown deadline, and Majority Leader Harry Reid, D-Nev., has already promised that majority Democrats will kill the House's latest volley.

Since the last government shutdown 17 years ago, temporary funding bills known as continuing resolutions have been noncontroversial, with neither party willing to chance a shutdown to achieve legislative goals it couldn't otherwise win. But with health insurance exchanges set to open on Tuesday, tea-party Republicans are willing to take the risk in their drive to kill the health care law.

The action in Washington was limited mainly to the Sunday talk shows and barrages of press releases as Democrats and Republicans rehearsed arguments for blaming each other if the government in fact closes its doors at midnight Monday.

"You're going to shut down the government if you can't prevent millions of Americans from getting affordable care," said Rep. Chris Van Hollen, D-Md.

"The House has twice now voted to keep the government open. And if we have a shutdown, it will only be because when the Senate comes back, Harry Reid says, 'I refuse even to talk,'" said Sen. Ted Cruz, R-Texas, who led a 21-hour broadside against allowing the temporary funding bill to advance if stripped clean of a tea party-backed provision to derail Obamacare. The effort ultimately failed.

The battle started with a House vote to pass the short-term funding bill with a provision that would have defunded implementation of the health care overhaul. The Senate voted along party lines to strip that out and lobbed the measure back to the House. The latest House measure, passed early Sunday by a near party-line vote of 231-192, sent back to the Senate two key changes: a one year delay of key provisions of the health insurance law and repeal of a new tax on medical devices that partially funds it, steps that still go too far for The White House and its Democratic allies on Capitol Hill.

Senate rules often make it difficult to act quickly, but the chamber can act on the House's latest proposals by simply calling them up and killing them on a nondebatable motion.

Eyes were already turning to the House Sunday for its next move. One of its top leaders vowed it would not simply give in to Democrats' demands to pass the Senate's "clean" funding bill.

"The House will get back together in enough time, send another provision not to shut the government down, but to fund it, and it will have a few other options in there for the Senate to look at again," said the No. 3 House Republican leader, Rep. Kevin McCarthy of California. "We are not shutting the government down."

McCarthy wouldn't say what changes Republicans might make. He appeared to suggest that a very short-term measure might pass at the last minute, but GOP aides said that was unlikely. And rumors Saturday night that GOP leaders might include a provision to deny lawmakers and staff aides their employer health care contributions from the government had cooled by Sunday afternoon. Lawmakers and congressional aides are required to purchase health insurance on the Affordable Care Act exchanges but the administration has taken steps to make sure they continue to receive their 72 percent employer contribution.

Republicans argued that Reid should have convened the Senate on Sunday to act on the measure.

"If the Senate stalls until Monday afternoon instead of working today, it would be an act of breathtaking arrogance by the Senate Democratic leadership," said House Speaker John Boehner, R-Ohio. "They will be deliberately bringing the nation to the brink of a government shutdown."

In the event lawmakers blow the Monday deadline, about 800,000 workers would be forced off the job without pay. Some critical services such as patrolling the borders, inspecting meat and controlling air traffic would continue. Social Security benefits would be sent and the Medicare and Medicaid health care programs for the elderly and poor would continue to pay doctors and hospitals.

The Senate was not scheduled to meet until midafternoon Monday, 10 hours before a shutdown would begin, and even some Republicans said privately they feared that Reid holds the advantage in the fast-approaching end game.

Republicans argued that they had already made compromises; for instance, their latest measure would leave intact most parts of the health care law that have taken effect, including requiring insurance companies to cover people with pre-existing conditions and to let families' plans cover children up to age 26. They also would allow insurers to deny contraception coverage based on religious or moral objections.

Democrats countered that Republicans were seizing a routine funding measure and holding it hostage, seeking leverage to unfairly jam Democrats into making concessions. Democrats were confident they could hold firm, and some more senior Republicans acknowledged that the situation is rife with political risk for their party.

But tea party forces in the House — egged on by Cruz — forced GOP leaders to abandon an earlier plan to deliver a "clean" stopgap spending bill to the Senate and move the fight to another must-do measure looming in mid-October: a bill to increase the government's borrowing cap to avert a market-rattling, first-ever default on U.S. obligations.

McCarthy appeared on "Fox News Sunday," while Cruz was on NBC's "Meet the Press." Van Hollen appeared on CBS' "Face the Nation."

 

Comments

The Big Dog's back

Conservatives and teathuglicans wanting to destroy the country. Imagine that.

Darwin's choice

Still suking on the Obama teat, eh?

Hey, dog, why is your leader Obama still raising monies on his campaign website under the "Organizing for action" lies? What's he campaigning for?

There you go again

Someone needs to tell Obama that the election is over and it is time to act on his promises to ......lower unemployment, no tax increases, close Gitanamo, fix immigration, and the list goes on.

Darwin's choice

Treasonocrats
Demosocialist
Marxistocrats

Just plain old communist...

Plenty of more up to date labels for the left wing extremist now running that party

shucks

Fox News filler for the empty heads.

Darwin's choice

Ok cheerleader, why is Obama still campaigning for money? "Organizing for action" ....! This should be criminal!

shucks

Your statements are lies.
Anyone with any sense can see that.
Stay on topic , Fox News robot.

Darwin's choice

Defer, deflect, deny....democrats!

Contango

@ DC:

Ask him from where he derives his health care.

Coaster's is public and GUARANTEED by OH taxpayers.

Dog says that his is from an employer.

Both deertracker & 4shizzle won't answer - but they LOVE Obama☭are!

Think maybe they're on Medicaid?

shucks

Think what you want.

Contango

Re: "want"

So your health care benefits are provided how?

So WHY do you LOVE Obama☭are?

shucks

Defer, deflect, deny , DESTROY = republicans.

Contango

Re: "Defer, deflect,"

So your health care benefits are provided how?

So WHY do you LOVE Obama☭are?

The Big Dog's back

1) Can't be denied healthcare for a pre-existing condition.
2) Out of pocket expenses will be lower.
3) Is affordable for everyone.
4) Medicare is improved for Seniors by eliminating the "donut hole".

Contango

Re: "Can't,"

Price, quality & service - ya can't have all three.

Only in the economic fantasyland of Obama☭are is it possible.

Fourth request: So is your employer public or private?

The Big Dog's back

You just can't handle the truth.

Contango

Re: "You"

But you enjoy sucking off your employer's teet for health care ins. don't you?

Only the "losers" have to use the exchanges - lucky you.

Is your employer public or private?

VOTENO

4shizzle must watch a lot of Fox News.

Yellow Snow

How much $$ can be spent before the repo. man comes breaking down the door? Taxes are at historically low levels today, but so are wages. Get America working, the tax revenue will flow. I don't want to see my taxes raised, I want people to get back to work.

Stop It

Dock their pay. No workie, no payee.

Erie County Resident

How can as Dogs Backend says Republicans destroy something that the Democraps at Obama's direction have already mostly destroyed?

Shut it down and leave it down until the Chicago thug politicians are gone.
Obama started this using strong arm backdoor deals. So why can't the other side use the same tactics to fight back?
Democraps don't like to recieve what they serve. After all they are now trying to let the U.N run our countries Constitution also.

Yellow Snow

:o)

The Big Dog's back

The teahadists or Al TeaQuada, have already used terrorist tactics. I think the Gov should declare them foreign combatants.

arnmcrmn

Nothing major gets shut down anyhow. Not the mail, not the airports or police and fire, it's all smoke and mirrors.

Obama the hypocrit will not meet in the middle but wants everyone to do what he says. Hypocrite. Stay strong. Shut it all down.

Gardenman

Affordable Care Act was approved by Congress and signed into law by the Pressident few years back. It was challenged in the courts and the Supreme Court upheld the law.

"Some" Republicans just will not give up !!!! It's pure eyewash to their campaign contributers. Let's face fact their is no way the Affordable Care Act is going to go away....it's here to stay. If some Republicans want to obstruct it by shutting down the government then let them do it. It's going to backfire on Republicans and they are going to be blamed.

Ironically, for years and years some Republicans have fought Medicare that originated back with President Johnson. They have fought it and fought for years. Only in the last few years have they given up and WHY ??? because they have realized over half the majority of Republicans are on Medicare. Remember the description of the Republican party when Obama won....they are mainly old white men and alas those old white men are over 65 and on Medicare.

So Republicans shut down the government and just be further and further away from ever winning the White House. Then run the real risk of losing your majority the House in 2014. As I say some Republicans are just playing to their contributors and are willing to shut down the government to play to their wishes.

shucks

Hillary 2016 !

coasterfan

You rock, Gardenman :)

SamAdams

Slavery was once the law of the land, and it was repeatedly upheld.

Prohibition was once the law of the land, and it was upheld.

Women were forbade to vote. Unions were illegal. Religious dissent was persecuted (and unprotected all the while).

If "the law of the land" and/or "upheld" bears meaning with Obamacare, then we need to repeal all of the repeals of those previous very, VERY bad laws and go back to the notion that once a law is passed, everyone must obey it forever and ever, amen.

No? REALLY?

The Big Dog's back

sam, I missed the law in the Constitution that said you had to have slaves. As a matter of fact I don't recall any law that said you had to have slaves.

grumpy

Piddle puppy, where did Sam say that you had to have slaves? Slaves were legal to own... at one time. Sam never wrote that you had to have them. Comprehension is not something you are good at, is it? I am NOT surprised by that.

shucks

Oh Grumpy - You'd better check your reading comprehension before you throw stones.

Reread Sham's first sentence.....slowly.

"Slavery was once the law of the land, and it was repeatedly upheld."

grumpy

Slavery was the law of the land. Where did she say you had to have slaves? Is your problem comprehension or grammar? Maybe you and Piddle Puppy don't understand grammar. Which is it that you don't understand?

shucks

So it was a law that you could have slaves... or...you could not have slaves... or a law to choose to have slaves or not ?
That makes a lot of sense , grammar master.

grumpy

"So it was a law that you could have slaves... or...you could not have slaves... or a law to choose to have slaves or not ?"

That is a correct statement, if you lived in the South where slave ownership was legal. In the North you could not have slaves.

This forum is of the written word. If you can't communicate doing so how can anyone know what you are attempting to say when you don't use accepted grammar? Are we supposed to guess what you mean? Or are we to take what you write as being what you mean? When you and Piddle Puppy don't understand what Sam actually said it is YOUR problem/mistake. Not Sam's or anybody else's. Act like an adult, accept you are wrong, Especially when it is pointed out to you that you are wrong.

Sam didn't say you "had" to own slaves. Last I knew gov't couldn't force to buy anything, that was one of the findings that allowed obamacare. SCOTUS found that it was a tax. One of the arguements against obamacare was you can't be forced to purchase anything. SCOTUS sidestepped that and claimed it was a tax.

Do you wish to keep getting your nose rubbed in the feces from a Piddle Puppy? Keep it up, it is fun rubbing your nose in it.

Really are you ...

I will blog on this in the morning.

It is like our darn quality jobs leaving the states or leaving Norwalk. The workers have no say, there is no compromising. And these people are making 3 to 5 times more a year than the average worker. Maybe this health care package could affect everyone in a negative way like the patriot act, then again maybe not.

Contango

U.S. labor force participation rates are matching 35 yr. recession era lows.

Aug. 1978: 63.2%

Aug. 2013: 63.2%

http://data.bls.gov/timeseries/L...

Pres. Obama's economic "recovery" is being produced on the backs of part-time, low paying "McJobs" and massive Federal Reserve money infusions.

The tax base needed to support the expensive, byzantine federal entitlement programs of Soc. Sec'y, Medicare, Medicaid and NOW Obama☭are is dissolving!

This country cannot continue to rack up trillions of dollars in debt through more tax, borrow, print and spend schemes ad infinitum.

Pres. Obama ordered "Simpson-Bowles" in order to get a handle on rising federal debt and then IGNORED their recommendations.

It's not a matter of IF, this govt. eventually fiscally, financially and monetarily grinds to a halt - it's WHEN.

dontcare

The first cuts should be the salaries of the idiots that can't pass a budget.

coasterfan

Let's see, the Republicans are threatening to shut down the government, which would adversely affect millions of Americans, unless we agree to defund Obamacare, which would adversely affect millions of Americans.

In a related story, Republicans voted to cut funding for food stamps (which currently provides a little more than $4 per day per person), while voting to INCREASE farm subsidies (welfare) for millionaire farmers.

These aren't examples of someone drinking the koolaid. These are examples of conservative politicians knowingly doing things they know will hurt millions of Americans.

All of the things Contango mentioned above were caused by the previous Republican administration, and have been prolonged by the current GOP funding philosophy, which says that during an economic downturn, you must CUT funding (the exact opposite of what most economists say needs to be done).

Rather than listening to Contango blather on with his usual rhetoric, I urge everyone to listen to an actual expert on the subject: please read Nobel-prize winning economist Paul Krugman's op-ed article today.

Contango

Re: "his usual rhetoric"

"Rhetoric"?

Other than bloviating nonsense, where's YOUR facts Comrade?

"Krugman"?

A bastardized Keynesian spend, spend, spend nut ball.

What's the title, so I can read it free on the NYT?

shucks

Rhetoric.

grumpy

Keynesian economics might work on paper and maybe in theory... but NEVER has it worked in the real world. The spenders NEVER cut spending, during good times, and pay off the debts run up during bad times. They have the spending more when times are bad thing down pat. No one has paid back the money borrowed during good times... they want to spend during good times... after all times are good and we can pay it off later... then later never happens. That is the fatal flaw in Krugman's Kenesian economics. they NEVER would pay off the debt. They will kick the can and hope someone else will pay. It doesn't happen in the real world, but it sure looks good on paper. If someone would pay off the debt I would have no problem watching someone try it... but no one will ever pay off the debt so the point is moot.

Notice I didn't speak on parties? They both have a history of spending way too much. The dumb and dumber parties rule.

The Big Dog's back

Disaster Capitalism is working well isn't it pooh?

Contango

Yes, Obama sanctioned crony capitalism (fascism) "is working well" for the Ruling Political Class who continue to get richer, while putting responsibility for paying off the debt onto the youth and yet to be born in America.

Remember: Tax, borrow, print and spend, spend, spend to prosperity! LOL!!!

grumpy

"Disaster Capitalism is working well isn't it pooh?"

Ummm, Piddle Puppy, Keynesian economics and capitalism is not the same thing... They really have little in common Have no idea what you are flailing around trying to make a point about. Care to explain what you are trying to say? Or are you just writing slogans you have read somewhere?

The Big Dog's back

Troll.

Darwin's choice

Another cheeleader! "Politicians doing things they know will adversely affect millions of Americans"??? Are you kidding me Coasterfan??? That is the Obama mantra!!! Your failure of a leader has set back everything he touches by decades! Here's a list of the previous shutdown's... seems that the end of the world didn't happen. Food stamps will still be paid, however, there STILL be no White House tours!!

http://www.washingtonpost.com/bl...

And, Bill Clinton legacy..when the government goes down, so do the interns....! Go democrats....!!!

Contango

Re: "I urge everyone to listen (sp),"

FYI: This format is visual, not auditory.

The word used should be "read."

And you have the audacity to "claim" that you "were" a teacher? Tsk, tsk.

Hey! Under your desire for a single payer health care system, does that mean that the assets in the STRS & OHCT health care trusts will be confiscated by the govt. ?

shucks

Contango- you hate people and America.

You love money and yourself.

Contango

^^^ Off-topic nonsense.

Take out your credit cards, borrow as much money as you can and spend, spend, spend your way to prosperity.

Why wouldn't it work for an individual, if it'll work for a govt.?

So your health care benefits are provided how?

shucks

When I read all your posts - that's what it all boils down to.
It may be "Off-topic" but it's not nonsense.

Speaking of "Off-topic",
Don't keep asking me about my health care.

Contango

Re: "Don't keep asking me about my health care."

That's VERY on-topic.

Why is the govt. shutting down? The fight over funding Obama☭are which will ultimately affect EVERYONE'S health care.

Again: So your health care benefits are provided how?

shucks

The self-appointed 'lord of the comment section' demands an answer about my business ?
LOL

Contango

Re: "an answer about my business?"

It's a simple enough question and you're a BIG proponent of Obama☭are. It only seems reasonable to ask.

Third request: So your health care benefits are provided how?

shucks

Put a little sugar on it.

Contango

Re: "Put"

Fourth request: So your health care benefits are provided how?

Do you not understand the question?

So WHY do you LOVE Obama☭are?

shucks

Say : "pretty please"

The Big Dog's back

pooh sure is nosey.

shucks

for sure

deertracker

He DEFINITELY loves himself and Kessler's!

Dr. Information

Gardenman.....so Obama once again wants "compromise" but is unwilling to compromise himself. Seems like par for the course when speaking about him and the democrats.

Lets keep printing and spending our way to oblivion. I mean its just paper right? When is enough enough? Raise the debt ceiling some more? Why do we have to? Why can't Washington cut to stay within budget? Oh, thats right because they haven't passed a budget in over 4 years. Why? Because the Dems budget is packed with TRILLIONS of taxes on the working Americans. You really think this country can afford that?

The party you liberals support are 1%er's. They have opted out of the ACA and they could care less about you. They have you completely fooled.

Everything the government has touched has turned bad. SS...the well is running dry. USPS....now on life support. Medicare/Medicaid......abused and run amuck. So why throw another thing into the fire for them to mess up.

You people simply do not get it.

Contango

Re: "Lets keep printing and spending our way to oblivion."

What Ludwig von Mises wrote:

"The question is only whether one should continue expansionism until the final collapse of the whole monetary and credit system or whether one should stop at an earlier date. The sooner one stops, the less grievous are the damages inflicted and the losses suffered."

http://mises.org/daily/6081/The-...

Dr. Information

Price of services will go up with Obamacare due to one simple thing. The medical device tax to fund this mess. That along with the other MANY hidden taxes in this thing.

shucks

Nah

Gardenman

Obviously you have been listening to too much Rush and Sean for you are just giving us the rehash of these guys from today and really the past 5 years. Only difference is they get quite hansomely for spouting the lines they do and you well like I get paid nothing.

Dr. Information

Haven't listened to them ever. How typical of you to post such a typical comment. Talk about being a rhetorical puppet

Gardenman

I always find it interesting how the Republican conservaties just a year ago spun the presidential election. It was tauted oh the debt, oh my the debt, it's terrible what we are doing to saddle our next generation and those yet unborn with huge debt.

The whole message was DOA with the young voters (under 35 yo) the very one they were trying to attract. What resonated and got Obama re elected was the Affordable Health Care Act, student loans kept at a low interest rate, extended job benefits, etc. Yet on and on went the Conservatives " the world is coming to an end, and US economy will collapse" What collapsed was the Republicans chance of gaining the White House. There was no huge gain by them in either House either.

So drive on Republicans,,,,,,,,,shut down the government tomorrow, show your stuff and make it harder for Americans to receive the services they paid for in their taxes just a few months ago Then see who they blame in November 2014, Your actions will be remembered by the voters. You will have a lot more folks though to tell us the world is coming to an end for they will be joined by out of office Senators and Representatives.

HA HA it's so humorous,,,,those Conservatives lose ir over and over on ACA but by gosh they will fight it to their last breath no matter the cost to the Republican Party.

Darwin's choice

“The fact that we are here today to debate raising America’s debt limit is a sign of leadership failure. It is a sign that the U.S. government can’t pay its own bills,” Obama said [pdf] in March 2006. “It is a sign that we now depend on ongoing financial assistance from foreign countries to finance our government’s reckless fiscal policies. Over the past five years, our federal debt has increased by $3.5 trillion to $8.6 trillion. That is ‘trillion’ with a ‘T.’ That is money that we have borrowed from the Social Security trust fund, borrowed from China and Japan, borrowed from American taxpayers.”

Update...that figure is now 17.4 Trillion, Thanks to Obama !

Read more: http://dailycaller.com/2013/09/2...

Gardenman

You can blame more that Obama,,,,GWB ran a huge debt up with his unneeded war in Iraq. No matter the party, no matter the president the debt has risen. We criticize the debt BUT YOU and many others are all benefiting from that money spent that created the debt.

We all are driving on roads that the Federal goveronment appropriated money for to be built and repaired. Stimulous dollars are all over Erie County....look at the brand new windows at Huron High School that was all stimulous dollars, Look at the infrastructure work done in Sandusky that was all stimulors dollars and you too like the upgrades. I am looking right now at my good Republican across the street and he is a huge anti Obama supporter. Yet the guy could not wait ....yes could not wait to get to Mathews Ford to turn in his 10 year old Fort van for a new car in the Cash for Clunkers that Democrats passed in Congress. The guy got out of his car on his first drive home from the Mathews and within 10 minutes was bashing the President and the Democrats for spending us into debt. $4000 of that debt was sitting in his driveway. Another neighbor down the street had a new Chevy in her driveway with a $4000 check from US Government in Cash for Clunkers but has a "Don't Blame me...I voted for McCain poster in her window," Yet on their drives set brand new cars because Democrats in Congress and the President helped them to buy them. There Republican friends said NO to the Cash for Clunkers bill.

So don't tell me it's Obama it's every president regardless of party who plays to the people who voted for them.

By no means are the Republicans lily white and God's Gift to Wise Spending in Washington.

Darwin's choice

Better check your facts, since Obama has been in office, the 85 billion thats being printed monthly, is solely his doing. 8 Trillion more in the national debt, since his election, and you democrats keep blaming Bush!

You're laughable, and sadly, the reason the country is so divided
Also, that farce "stimulus" program, was about as successful as the "Solyndra" program. You remember that? Hundreds of millions out the window! Go democrats!

Dr. Information

Sounds like typical CNN talk.

Contango

Re: "make it harder for Americans to receive the services they paid for in their taxes,"

$3T on the Fed's balance sheets (QE) has been helping to prop up this corrupt hedge fund of a govt.

Not-to-worry, the govt. won't shut down for long, the debt ceiling will be raised and all the good little tax, borrow, print and spenders like Paul Krugman can go back to overseeing the inevitable fiscal, financial and monetary collapse of the U.S. Govt.

$17 Trillion? H*ll, why not $20, $30, $40, or $100 trillion???

Let's borrow, tax, print and spend our country back to prosperity!!!

Really are you ...

Stop and look around. Why are we in this dire situation in the first place? Thriving companies looking to pay less in hourly wages, looking to pay less in taxes. The worker is working for less in wages, new jobs are mostly part time hours. The worker has less to spend, so there is less in taxes. You are taxed when you earn your paycheck, and you are taxed on everything you spend your money on except grocery food.

It is a bum deal. Cut the lobbiests and special interest groups ties in DC. Bring our jobs back to the States. Put the enemployed back to work, put the people who gave up looking for employment back to work. Stop trying to be the worlds police. One of the rules I had to abide by when I was in the military was from the Geneva Convention, I will not fire at, unless fired upon. Syria did not fire the chemical weapons at the United States. Which makes perfect sense why we should stay put of Syria's civil war. Then guess what. Unemployment will go down, tax revenue will increase without raising taxes. Job seekers and ETSing veterans will be able to find quality jobs. But instead let's just bicker at each other. It is easy and makes sense.

Contango

Re: "Cut the lobbiests and special interest groups ties in DC."

The "Iron Triangle" of govt. (bureaucrats & elected officials), industry (public & private) and paid lobbyists ain't gonna go away.

http://examples.yourdictionary.c...

Remember: YOUR "special interest" representative, MY "lobbyist."

shucks

SHOULD read:

Remember: MY "special interest" representative, MY "lobbyist."

Contango

Re: "MY 'special interest' representative, MY 'lobbyist.'"

So disallow labor unions from having "special interest" reps in DC or funneling money to Democrats eh?

VOTENO

SHUT IT DOWN!

Gardenman

I agree let it go and let the Republicans take the blame. Let Americans far and wide understand who caused this and by all means get the spelling right.....Ted Cruz, Rand Paul and all the others. When those citizens of Texas and Kentucky are getting closed doors on federal government services and it begins to pinch they will think twice before they elect these two and other ultra conservatives to Congress,

Darwin's choice

Do you and Big Dog/4shizzle share the same drinking bowl/urinal? Wow !!
You've got it hook,line and sinker.

Gardenman

And alas if you had your way all would be good and no problems what so ever in the country and the world. It those wwho stand on the sidenad criticize those in leadership but should they ever be in that position they don't have the slightest idea what to do.

shucks

Right, if they had their way , the world would be such a wonderful place.
They've had their way - that's why everything is mucked up.

OSUBuckeye59

Not all of government will shut down. Just some services, like National Parks & Museums, as an example. But over time, the longer it takes for a Budget agreement, the more the drag on the economy from out-of-work government employees.

Dr. Information

So your solution via a business approach is to borrow more to pay the bills we cannot pay. Hope you don't own a business with that approach because you won't last long.

Dr. Information

Its amazing how that nasty little 4 letter word never comes out of any Democratic mouth. Cuts

Contango

Re: "Cuts"

AND, if I may repeat myself:

Pres. Obama ordered the National Commission on Fiscal Responsibility and Reform (Simpson-Bowles) in order to get a handle on rising federal debt and then IGNORED their recommendations.

Fact: If this economy were in good shape, the Federal Reserve would not have kept interest rates at 0% and practiced quantitative easing (QE) for FIVE yrs.

Good news: The S&P pulled out a 4.5% increase for the third quarter!

Thanks to the Federal Resv. the rich continue to get richer.

The Big Dog's back

Cuts? Cut subsidies to business. Cut subsidies to rich farmers. Make taxes on capital gains the same as income. Charge the jokers on Wall Street a tax to cover all the people and agencies that are suppose to keep them legal.

Contango

Re: "Cut subsidies,"

Continue livin' in fantasyland.

Pres. Obama continues to pay lip service to his useful idiots, while he's OK with the Federal Resv. keeping the U.S. economy limping along and the rich get richer.

Dr. Information

You do realize that capital gains tax is about equal to the federal tax rate don't you? Or maybe you don't. Lol

Yeah let's kill more business and stagger this already faulting Obama economy.

Your policy or lack of is showing

The Big Dog's back

The only difference between radical Muslims and radical teathuglicans is that the radical Muslims die for their cause to kill massive amounts of people. Teathuglicans kill massive amounts of people legislatively by cutting food stamps, trying to take healthcare away from people, and torpedoing the economy.

grumpy

Last time significant cuts in food stamps was under Clinton... he signed the bill to do so. Was Slick Willy one of those radical teathuglicans you are talking about? History seems to bite you in the a$$ quite often. Was there massive amounts of people hurt when Slick Willy cut food stamps? Was the economy torpedoed? Bet we don't get an answer from the Piddle Puppy.

The Big Dog's back

Troll.

grumpy

Poor, poor Piddle Puppy, when facts and history bites his a$$ he behaves like a typical 5 year old. It is so much fun to jerk his chain... and so predictable.

shucks

.

shucks

"Last time significant cuts in food stamps was under Clinton... he signed the bill to do so."

Spin.

grumpy

Clinton cut Food Stamps, he limited them to 3 months per year, made them more difficult to get, made them more difficult to apply for. Where is the spin? Look it up. Happened in 95 or 96.

OSUBuckeye59

It looks highly likely our government, for all intents and purposes, will partially shut down @midnight. I write partial because most major programs like Social Security and Medicare are paid out of permanent appropriations and therefore won't be impacted by Congress & the POTUS not agreeing on a budget. The real fight, and the higher stakes, are with the debt ceiling.

Our deadlocked Congress committed to entitlements it will not reduce, appropriated funds it does not have, borrowed money it cannot repay and is holding fast to a debt ceiling they imposed but will not raise. As others have pointed out, the debt ceiling "is an anachronism. It's an accountability mechanism from the days when Congress didn't much involve itself in federal budgeting. Today, Congress exerts full control over the federal budget. The debt ceiling isn't imposing accountability on the executive but calling into question whether Congress will pay the bills it has already chosen to incur." This is truly the definition of insanity . . . our congressional leaders authorize a budget then hold it hostage when it comes time to spending the money in the approved budget.

If the debt ceiling is not raised, and the executive branch stops borrowing, the government will need to cut spending by about 15 to 20%, which is almost 40% of spending on everything (including Medicare and defense) other than the interest on the debt. The question many are now asking is, "Will Obama raise the debt ceiling w/o Congressional approval?" The White House is currently saying Obama won't take this action, which means he probably *WILL* take this action if need be because he precisely said he would not. And if Obama does indeed go down this road, we might even hear him talk about Abraham Lincoln using much the same tack during the Civil War.

When Lincoln suspended habeas corpus during the Civil War, he said that it was necessary to violate one law, lest all the laws but one fall into ruin. So Obama might decide it best to violate the debt ceiling to prevent a catastrophe — whether a default on the debt or an enormous reduction in federal spending, which would throw the country back into recession. If Congress and/or Obama doesn't raise the debt ceiling, and Obama then chooses to pay the debt interest while cutting expenditures, hundreds of billions of dollars will vanish from the American economy, sending thousands out of work and depriving many others of pension checks, medical insurance, and basic services. If Obama stops interest payments, the United States will default. This will not only raise interest payments, costing taxpayers hundreds of billions of dollars, but it could spark a financial panic like the meltdown of 2008. Treasuries (as well as other government securities) are used in the repo market, which funds the major financial institutions. If that $5 trillion-to-$10 trillion market collapsed, it would take the banking system with it.

But if the debt ceiling isn't raised by Congress *AND* Obama decides to raise it on his own, not only is there little chance he'll be impeached as a Democratically-controlled Senate means no chance on a 2/3 conviction vote + the Supreme Court would most likely refuse to intervene under the political question doctrine, which directs courts to stay out of disputes between the legislative and the executive branches, but the GOP would be privately thanking him dearly while publicly crying outrage because the GOP wouldn't have compromised on their "No taxes and no Obama Care!" pledge.

I have 99.99% belief there will be zero compromise before midnight, our government will partially shut down, and many Government employees like Rangers in National Parks might have to go on unpaid leave while others wonder how much longer they'll receive pay. But the bigger D-Day, as in Decision Day, comes in mid-October.

The Hero Zone's picture
The Hero Zone

Thank you for the good and well-thought read. It's refreshing amid some others here.

OSUBuckeye59

And I thank you for your kind words.

thinkagain's picture
thinkagain

You could have read much of it at any number of different websites. Plagiarizing content and passing it off as your own doesn’t warrant kudos.

EZOB

Republicans Kill? And who supports Abortion?
If this shut down lasts less than 2 weeks it's a very huge win for Republicans. We all know Republicans are big business and by the time the fall of 2014 comes around the Democrats will suffer "HUGE" defeats at the polls. I just hope that everyone has to come under the ACA and no one or no union is exempt.

OSUBuckeye59

As long as any of us continues to believe one of the two major party's "wins", or that one of the two major party's *SHOULD* "win", we all continue to lose as a country. The constant bickering, fighting and finger-pointing from our supposed federally-elected leaders needs to stop.

The great scientist George Box made the now-famous quote, "All models are wrong, but some are useful". I would suggest the political version of that same saying is, "All politicians are wrong, but some are useful." As soon as our elected officials realize this, perhaps they can help our country move forward instead of staying mired in their individual political party cesspools.

KURTje

Rep. Nolan/Minn. wants Congress NOT to get paid.

OSUBuckeye59

Unfortunately, this is yet another example of an elected official making a public show. Rep. Nolan knows full well the only way to stop funding Congressional members is through Congress creating and then approving legislation to make it so. Yet more grandstanding.