Perkins Schools supporters banned from polling place

The decision comes after levy supporters allegedly influenced Alzheimer's patients to vote for their cause.
Andy Ouriel
Sep 27, 2013

The leading officials supervising Ohio Veterans Home activity prohibited Perkins Schools supporters from entering the premises during November's Election Day.

A decision comes about a month after allegations surfaced of levy supporters recruiting Alzheimer's patients to vote for their cause.

By more than a 4-to-1 margin, individuals voting at the veterans home approved the Perkins School levy in August — the largest margin of victory throughout the district's 16 voting precincts.

Perkins Schools officials are proposing a 10-year, 6.73-mill levy for the November ballot, identical to the issue voters rejected in August.

Pick up Saturday's Register to read more, including comments from Perkins Schools supporters.

Comments

Sandusksquach

This could be an interesting legal issue. But please PLSD, don't pursue it. Let the Alzheimer's vote go.

Bherrle

There was no effort to go after the Alzheimer vote in the first place.

Rosa

It is so sad that this happened.....especially to involve students and letting them think this is the proper way to get what you want....

Centauri

"The decision comes after levy supporters allegedly influenced Alzheimer's patients to vote for their cause."

Good decision. The Ohio Veterans Home has staff to help the veterans to cast a vote at the polls located within the OVH building. That way no questions will be raised about ethical voting.

observer

You know, that's pretty low! This entire levy push has been a fiasco! This, for me, is the final nail in it's coffin! How ANYONE can ever get on here again and promote this BOE and Gunner is beyond me.

Bherrle

Because we know the facts, and choose not to let all of the gossip, rumor, and inuendo that runs rampant here impact our decision making. A lot more people should try it, instead of letting articles like this tear us apart even farther.

There was no effort to do anything wrong. Period.

VOTENO

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Wald

The "facts" as you see them, you mean.

Centauri

"Because we know the facts"

How about the facts about some properties being way undervalued for tax purposes? Please explain why the school did not challenge the low property valuations for property tax. Even after a fair market sale, the valuations remained very low for tax purposes.

Bherrle

Centauri,

I know nothing about that. I know you have made numerous comments on blogs before regarding that issue.

Are you accusing the district of being selective in not challenging, or just stating that they are not challenging anything?

Centauri

"Are you accusing the district of being selective in not challenging, or just stating that they are not challenging anything?"

In the past, the Perkins Local SD has challenged property valuations of property located in the Perkins Local SD.

Bherrle

I will inquire Centauri. Probably take me a few days to get an answer.

44870 South

Bherrle, go away...you are so diluted and brainwashed. We're sick of reading your same old crap on here.

Bherrle

South,

Thank you for pointing out that my comments are not changing.

If someone wants to make an accusation, then back it up with proof and fact. Too many people on here not doing that, using the rumor mill.

Centauri is putting facts out there, and I applaud him for that.

VOTENO

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paradise123

They didnt even go into the alzheimers unit.. how can they when it's on lockdown?

Erie Countian

I held my nose and voted yes the past two times, but the stench has become overwhelming. Until Gunner is booted out and the current BOE is replaced, I will be voting no from here on out.

Centauri

Very low valuation of property within the Perkins Local School District.

http://erie.iviewauditor.com/Dat...
Current Valuation January 2012 Assessment: $346,020
Sales in 2005: $660,000

pptrsha

when you see property on the auditor website an assessment does not mean that that is what the property is going to sell for. there are different criteria for banks, for taxes,and for equity.

Centauri

"when you see property on the auditor website an assessment does not mean that that is what the property is going to sell for. there are different criteria for banks, for taxes,and for equity."

Can you show some facts to back up your comments? Internet links will do with a brief copy and paste section from the link.

http://www.koopermangillespie.co...
"The best indication of the fair market value of real property is the recent purchase price paid. In many cases, (once a Tax Complaint is properly filed) the Auditor will accept the purchase price paid as the fair market value, and revise the assessed value of the property accordingly."

Example of a school challenging that the selling price is the best indicator of the true valuation of a property.

http://www.sanduskyregister.com/...
"Beck and Horchler, as owners of the property listed as BHP Properties, purchased the building from Philip A. Pisano for $171,500. At the time, the property’s total assessed value was $86,240, according to records from the Erie County Auditor’s Office."

"The Department of Taxation also plays a role in overseeing auditors’ values for tax purposes."

“Courts have consistently said in Ohio that the sale price is the best indicator of what the price should be for taxes,” Kohkstrand said. “Eventually, that sale will be looked at for its worth — it just happens the school district here looked right away.”

http://erie.iviewauditor.com/Dat...
Property sold for $105,0000 in 1999
$132,420 is the valuation in 2003
$$86,240 is the valuation in 2006

I see no record of BOR action to drop the value from $132,420 to $86,240. Somebody got deep discount for property taxes.

MP

Matt, Doug, Tim:

You should be embarrassed. You have done nothing but throw gasoline on a spark to sell more papers.

You KNOW that no Alzheimer patients were not approached because those units are locked down.

You KNOW that Coach Niell, who worked for OVH for over 30 years, has nothing but respect for the veterans and he personally over saw the OVH drive for votes.

You KNOW that the only patients approached by kids were at the direction of OVH staff.

You KNOW that Amy Grubby came to OVH and squashed the entire effort that day.

You KNOW that only 29 people voted so there is no impact.

Yet here you go ripping apart our community to sell a newspaper on a Saturday that doesn't even have enough copy to wrap fish. Great job guys. Keep on this path. Perkins failure will lead to the merger agenda with Sandusky that you so strongly push.

observer

I'm definitely NOT a big fan of the Register, but why do you blame the NEWSpaper for reporting what OVH did? OVH made the decision, not the Register. Bottom line is this: the residents of Perkins township are simply fed up with manipulations, threats, and lies from the Perkins BOE and Gunner. I'm a lifelong Perkins resident, and I do not want to "merge" with Sandusky, but I also do not want to be bullied into passing a levy that Gunner's ineptness and ego is forcing on our community! Frankly, you levy supporters should be extremely EMBARRASSED by all this, instead of arrogantly chastising someone for reporting it! You all are on the "Titanic" and keep telling each other that the ship isn't sinking, and are angry at the people who told you that you hit an iceberg!

Bherrle

It is the way they are reporting it, in my opinion, along with the fact that they chose to report this but have never reported anything about the Board of Elections own misdeeds on election day, trying to turn away anyone wearing a piece of Perkins clothing. I agree with everything MP states. All of his statements are the truth of the situation.

Saying it was the largest margin of victory among any precinct is misleading in the context of the article. The result at OVH in August was almost identical to May's results. There is obvious bias in the reporting because they left that part out.

Rosa

PLEASE, just admit that what they did was wrong, I don't care if OVH residents had full blown dementia or just wanted a little bit of attention. Teaching students integrity should be more important than getting votes anyway you can...

And Perkins has already been told NO twice. This rubs all voters I know the wrong way, with exception of Perkins employees or parents who don't want to pay these crazy fees.

True Blue

You cannot wear any political shirts or buttons when you vote. So, I guess the Board of Elections was doing their job. Anyone wearing a Perkins sports shirt wasn't asked to leave and turn their shirt inside out. Talk about getting your facts right. Why didn't you check your facts out before you made that statement.

Bherrle

True Blue,

You are the one that needs to fact check. I agree that political shirts are not allowed, such as the Support Our Students shirts.

There were numerous people wearing just Perkins apparel (not levy shirts) who were asked to change shirts or turn them inside out. One was my neighbor. Another occurred while I was at the polls.

True Blue

There were two precincts (8 and 9) that didn't ask anyone to turn their shirts inside out unless it had to do with the levy. So, all I can say is Excuss me!

candleburner

Deleted my comment after rereading it. I'm still not a Perkins Township resident but I think that people are jumping the gun here. There's lots of ways to get into the Alzheimer's Unit. It's not like the Erie Co. Jail - lockdown doesn't mean the same thing. In my opinion people here sometimes start ripping into the guys at the Register and really have no fair reason to.

TellTheTruth

The truth hurts, doesn't it, MP?

I don't care if it was only 2 votes dishonestly cast, it was wrong and immoral.

Bherrle

No, lies and negative spin hurt, which is what this is.

observer

How about getting an honest answer on the pay to play fees then. There are many people who have heard Thor Sports paid for them. This true or not? Did they make a very sizeable donation to Perkins Athletic department? One that Gunner doesn't want the public to know about? We're not stupid, Bherrle, really we're not. You need to stop insinuating that everyone who doesn't agree with you is uninformed or wrong.

Bherrle

"There are many people who have heard Thor Sports paid for them"

OK - so where did they hear it from? Who told them? Can they prove it is true? Is it fact or is someone just stirring the pot? Have you or others that are skeptical of this called the school and asked? Or how about calling Thor and asking??

The last time I asked, several days after the rumor started, there was not truth to that rumor.

Why does anyone have to prove a rumor wrong, rather than the those spreading the rumor proving it right?

I don't think you or others are stupid, and I am not trying to insinuate that. However, when rumor and accusation without proof is used to make a decision, then I will say that is an uninformed (or perhaps better stated a not completely informed)decision, no matter the situation. I do hear so many things from so many people in this community that are just not true, but yet no one seems to ever go back and question the source of the rumor. Why is that?

Everyone is entitled to an opinion, and to make their decisions based on what they choose. But if they make statements that are not correct, I will point that out. I see plenty of non-supporters doing the same thing, and worse, i.e. personal attacks.

I will inquire again about the rumor.

Big Poppy

We'll I heard Thorsport paid for the flag football program. And I heard that Thursday at the flag football game

Big Poppy

And what about the big surplus of money that te football team has now? Like between $50,000 & 60,000 that somebody gave them

observer

^^^^ Thor Sports, is what I heard. Funny that everyone except the levy supporters seems to know about it.

Bherrle

Thor Sports has not made a donation to the school, nor any indication that they will. I spoke to the Treasurer this evening.

"Flag Football" is not the school football program.

Now - tell us where this rumor is coming from.

Big Poppy

So Bherrle how are some kids still playing sports when they haven't even paid the first part of the payment? And the AD told the parents they can make payment arraignments. And all of a sudden it's paid for! Who is paying for these kids? Why should some pay and others don't? I know this for a fact coming from the kid and his parents!!!

fifteenthgreen

Probably is coming from the bogus $22,000 plus choir "pay to play" pot!

Transplant1

I see the same people on here all day. I have read some other posts and the times people are on here is all day long. One people either have no jobs, life or anything better to do. Make sure you update your facebook status. And if you all do have jobs, you should be fired because you are more worried about a levy that will not pass. For the people who want it to pass it wont. Where are the signs, what happened to the meetings. For the no voters you win. Read my other posts. I dont care if it passes or does not, just vote. There were over half of the township voters that did not vote. Incredible. Both yes and no voters failed. Now down to real business. After this fails, and it will who is going to own up and take the fight to Columbus. Schools are unconstitionally funded in the state of ohio. Take off the blinders. Someone, PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE stop talking and make your actions speak louder than your words. Get off your little egos and take the fight to Columbus so everyone can help the kids, i.e. our children, grandchildren, family members. Grow up and fix it in Columbus.

pptrsha

MP, I have seen SR do this over and over

Centauri

Recently, I was informed that some "NO" signs against the school levy have been spotted in yards. Does anybody know where to purchase these?

Stop It

Takes two coat hangers straightened out some duct tape and one piece of poster board wrapped in saran wrap with the words VOTE NO written with a wide sharpie. You have a sign..It can say what you want.

Centauri

Thank you for posting. I checked some home improvement stores in the Sandusky, Ohio area and found these blank yard signs. Use a permanent ink marker and make your own sign.

http://www.lowes.com/pd_236805-3...

http://www.homedepot.com/p/The-H...

There is a Menards located in Sandusky, Ohio. Look there for blank yard signs.

Your local print shop might also be a source for custom or blank yard signs. If you make a sign, make sure that the ink is permanent or rain will wash it away.

Darkhorse

Well what can we say. Politics is a dirty game and people will do anything to corrupt it and make it worse. They will try anything until they get caught doing what they shouldn't be doing.

Lil DAB

I AM a fan of the Register, especially since my own local overpriced "rag" seldom updates their webpage and prohibits posts on their Facebook page. Then another "news mess" limits page views and holds you "hostage" to pay to read their casual informational articles! (Unless you have figured out that cleaning the temp files lets you start over with page views. Not worth the time anymore.)
I am not the only one to the South and West of Sandusky that comes to the Register and/or Reflector for the news. So, I for one appreciate getting updates, news and reports with the option to comment with an opinion!
Kudos to the OVH for stepping up and doing, what is in MY opinion, the right thing! ♛

Stop It

Bellevue? Sure as hell sounds like it.

Bellevue Gazette and the upper class does the hiding in RSS feed. They won't let you in if they don't want you.

Centauri

The money that was to be used for operating expenses was moved over to the permanent improvement fund.

That would be kind of like giving somebody money for gas but instead they bought cool rims for the car.

Another example would be giving somebody money to heat their home but it was used to buy a new flat screen TV and they come back asking for more money to heat their home.

The school operating funds were there for school operations. The funds were moved to the permanent improvement fund. Why should the tax payer give the school more money for operations?

Bherrle

Centauri,

First - If the comparisons above correlated to what was being done, then I would agree with you. No one wants to build a new school because it's "cool." I understand that that is the sentiment of some, and it appears it is yours as well, but that is not accurate. The structural, safety, code, and long term health concerns have been well documented. Planning to just continuing to fix these issues as they can be fixed, or when they a hit a crisis level, is not fiscally or otherwise responsible.

Second - It is within any school boards discretion to move the millage that was originally granted to that school district by the state years ago. That millage was never "designated" as operations only money. In fact, in the early years, that millage was frequently used to build schools. Since then, the public in general has gotten used to in being operations money, and therefore some feel it should be that and that only.

fifteenthgreen

It should be that, and that only.

Wald

Double post

Wald

Please explain the structural, safety, and health value of the $60,000 fountain in the courtyard that was in Gunner's first proposed new building design. Or was it included for the "coolness" factor?

Bherrle

Wald,

Your asking me a question about a plan that is 3 years old now, and was before my time here. I would have to say the fountain was an aesthetic feature only.

Now, please explain, was the fountain a part of the final design plan that would have been built, or was it an artist's rendition to depict what could be? If you tell you it absolutely would have been a part of the final design, then please also tell me how you know that.

fifteenthgreen

Why is the choir pay to play money being moved to another program, i.e. band, bherrle? Why are parents being misled as to think the $220 choir pay to play fee is actually going towards the choir program? Another lie and misappropriation of funds. To me, it's stealing!

Bherrle

15th,

I have absolutely no idea what you are talking about. Please explain, with proof.

fifteenthgreen

The director confirmed they do not benefit from the pay to play fees and that the funds generated go to other programs. There are over 100 kids in the choir program combined equaling over $22,000. You know that because your daughter is in the program....but according to you, she doesn't have to pay. Proof enough?

This is just one example. These fees are ridiculous and we have no idea where they are going and what they are being used for.

Bherrle

15th,

She is taking the Concert Choir class, which is different than the Choir you are referring to.

Wald

It was part of the final design that was voted on by the public. The fountain is pretty symbolic of where Gunner's priorities are.

Bherrle

Your forgot three words - In your opinion.

Wald

You wouldn't consider a $60,000 courtyard fountain excessive or frivolous? Please inform me of its educational value. Give me the facts of why Gunner included a $60,000 fountain in his original vision.

fredinperkins

First
What are the structural concerns of the current buildings? Are the walls tumbling down?
What are the safety concerns of the current buildings? Fire hazard?
What are the code concerns/violations at the current buildings?
What are the long term health concerns at the current buildings?
Where can I get a copy of official documentation that "condemns" these buildings? Perkins Fire Dept., Perkins Township Zoning,?

Second
So be it as long as it does not exceed 10 mills. And the voters said no to the operating levy when the money was moved to the 10 mill limit.
That is "designated" and voted. However we continue to spend to put the levy back on the ballot. That neither is fiscally or otherwise responsible.

Bherrle

Fred,

One of several of the assessments that were done can be found at the following link. This was the 2008 assessment. Top right hand corner, there are four parts to the report. http://www.perkinsschools.org/Bo...

No one said the buildings are condemned. No one said the walls are tumbling down. However, there are significant issues that cannot be ignored forever, and need to be planned for. It would not be "responsible" of our Superintendent, or BOE, to simply ignore all these issues.

5.2 mills is what was given to PLSD by the state. That is the extent of what they can move.

Centauri

"No one wants to build a new school because it's "cool." I understand that that is the sentiment of some, and it appears it is yours as well, but that is not accurate."

Definition of analogy:
Analogy- a comparison between two things, typically on the basis of their structure and for the purpose of explanation or clarification.

"It is within any school boards discretion to move the millage that was originally granted to that school district by the state years ago."

Please explain how many decades or years ago this inside millage was used for operating expenses before the millage was moved? How many school districts in Ohio have moved the inside millage? I know the answer. I will let you "look it up" as I was told to do when I asked a question.

Thanks to troll and flamer brassman, I will be very active here with my comments.

brassman
Tue, 08/13/2013 - 11:11pm
"I live in Perkins, my kids go to Perkins, all my nieces and nephews go to Perkins, so of course I am pro-levy. I always support all levies. They are for the good of our community and our schools."

Why is it that most of the Perkins School levy supporters are so arrogant, snobbish, look down upon and criticize poor people and hold back on answers when questions are asked? For example, if I or others ask a question, why do you levy supporters dodge the questions or tell the people to look up the answers ourselves? The levy supporters sound like typical politicians who dodge questions or give very vague or untruthful answers.

So which of you Perkins School levy supporters will be the first to attack me?

Bherrle

Centauri,

I'm not going to attack you. For tonight, I will only question why us disagreeing with you makes us snobbish, arrogant, etc. I'm not criticizing poor people. I'm not a rich person by any means at all. Why is Brassman's statement above wrong? He is giving his opinion, his position, how he feels.

Centauri

"For tonight, I will only question why us disagreeing with you makes us snobbish, arrogant, etc."

"Why is Brassman's statement above wrong?"

Bherrle, my comment about the school pro-levy group had the word "most" which means that there are some pro-levy people who are not snobs. It was not directed to you since your comments have been civil.

I posted only part of the comment from brassman. Brassman chose to stalk me on another news story. Some of the school pro-levy people are trolls and flamers.

In other comments by pro-levy people, one pro-levy person called another person "self centered" because the other person has no money for additional taxes. I don't have the time to look up old comments to find the person being called "self centered" but the person mentioned trying to sell a home for half of the stated county auditor appraisal, not being able to afford medication and so forth.

The fact is that there are many well to do people in the Perkins Local SD who could well afford to pay additional taxes and student fees. There are also some poor people who cannot subsidize the wishes of the well to do.

I checked the property valuations of these well to do people and found that a large number had very low valuations which means that they pay less taxes to the school than in prior years.

Kelly

He hurt your feelings so you use him to say what exactly? You didn't leave anything important out from his original comment either. Brassman's comment is admirable and many of us feel exactly the same way. There's nothing snobby about supporting where all the kids in your family go to school. Who are these "well to do" people you've stalked to know what their homes are worth? From your ridiculous statements I'd say that it's clear that some of those against the levy are trolls and flamers.

Julie R.

*eye roll*

Nemesis

It's within their legal discretion to do so, but not within the realm of ethics when it's done in direct defiance of multiple voter disapprovals of that for which they intend to use it. It's like the Iran-Contra scheme in the 80's - a set of perfectly legal actions, undertaken to defy the will of those who hold the purse strings.

As for the reasons for a new school, SCS plans to teach the county's best and brightest in a building more than twice as old as Perkins' oldest building, SMCC produces a percentage of college bound seniors to which the local public schools could only hope to aspire in a building over 100 years old, and Ivy League schools educate the leaders of tomorrow in buildings that were old when George Washington was still in diapers. This building project is an ego project to pad Gunner's resume and service the board's edifice complex.

oldpirate

The only thing the negative voter will accomplish is to make the the end result only become more painful to the community. It is obvious that many posters on this page did not read the article closely. Allegations are just that! No need to be accurate just like the comments here. It has also not gone unnoticed the negative tone of the articles in dealing with matters pertaining to the levy written by the paper. If someone gained access to the alzheimer unit then the OVH staff wasn't doing their job. They just don't want the hassle and that should have been stated.

observer

How many times do the voters have to vote down this levy before you, the BOE, and Gunner realize what "no" means? I mean, really, what does a vote mean anymore if they just put the levy back on the ballot as soon as it fails? You lost, now deal with it.

PTBarnumWouldBeProud

Observer...just curious....Do you feel the same way about "The Affordable Care Act?" Should folks "just deal with it" if they feel it is the first step in a sprint towards socialized medicine?

oldpirate

we will keep working as long as it takes. In the end you only pay more. Just like that leaky roof you keep ignoring the problems only gets bigger and more expensive.

Rosa

You also mean the school is WASTING tax dollars placing it on the ballot, again and again. I have a budget and stick to it. That would be a novel idea for the Perkins Schools.

observer

That's right!

observer

oldpirate,

No, I'd take the $$$$ I took from the "maintenance of my current home" fund BACK OUT of the "I wanna build a new house" fund, and fix it!

The voters have spoken twice now, and yet, are ignored! I thought this was America where we voted on things and lived with the results whether we liked it or not. Gunner, and the BOE, seem to think "We didn't like the outcome of the vote, so let's just have another election!"

Suitcase Simpson

Have heard a rumor that several people could be charged with masterminding and aiding in this travesty of justice! I hope they all go to prison. Then maybe some group of school kids can come to the prison and help them 'decide' who to vote for! Oh wait, felons can't vote!

Stop It

Who were the "special" kids who had their sports fees funded by private groups?

Big Poppy

There are a few on the football team I know and at least 1 from the volleyball program. That coming from the kids parents.

fifteenthgreen

Desperate times call for desperate measures!

Stop It

Follow the money...

Good 2 B Me

This just gets jucier and jucier!

I am guessing that the BOE and Gunner are slitting their own necks with this nonsense! Corruption I tell ya!!

VOTENO

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VOTENO

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SamAdams

It seems to me that if you need help voting, you shouldn't be voting. Sure, a blind man might need somebody to read him the ballot, but someone who can't UNDERSTAND the ballot? That's a whole 'nother ballgame, and goes a ways to explain all sorts of candidates/issues that somehow manage a win, doesn't it?

Bherrle

That is not the kind of help that was provided. Helping those who physically needed help is what was done, such as pushing wheelchairs, etc.

fifteenthgreen

Were Perkins kids pushing wheelchairs in previous elections?

SamAdams

Pushing wheelchairs? No problem. But that's not what's being alleged here, IS it...

Some senior citizens are too gullible as it is. They came of age in an era when most people were honest, and a man's word was his bond. They're told something now, and they still tend to believe it even though honesty and honor are in short supply these days. Now take a senior who has a diminished mental capacity, and you can multiply their credulity by an order of magnitude!

I'm not blaming older folks for being more trusting than they ought to be. I think it's a crying shame that their own sense of decency often comes back to bite them. That doesn't, however, change the facts. And it certainly doesn't excuse those who would take advantage of it!

Bherrle

Key word - "Alleged." Plus, the Board of Elections already stated there was no wrong doing, and the investigation was closed.

Centauri

"Helping those who physically needed help is what was done, such as pushing wheelchairs, etc."

The staff at the veteran nursing home are paid to push wheelchairs, etc.

Have the pro-levy people gone to other nursing homes in the school district for additional votes?

Common Sense

Re: Centauri
"The staff at the veteran nursing home are paid to push wheelchairs, etc".

Two thoughts on this:
1. The OVH is understaffed for the amount of work that is required. Belt-tightening is not reserved for the private sector.
2. Thos of us who push wheelchairs to Mass at the OVH on Sunday morning, are we then manipulating their minds in terms of faith?

It is truly sad that some people look for the negative in nearly every aspect of life.

Also, Perkins Schools has (in the past) assisted the OVH with putting up Christmas lights. No paper coverage of that when it occurred. Why would the students and staff want to continue to do good deeds when there are a number of "shooters" waiting to ruin the moment?

Stop It

Who is playing 1st string in football now, and 1st string basketball this coming winter season?

underthebridge

People should read this article carefully. It does not say that the Board of Elections prohibits students from coming in on November Election Day. It says that the administrators from OVH are prohibiting it. Any suggestion by levy supporters that this is a politically motivated ruling are missing the point.

The very people whose job it is to protect the veterans made this ruling. For that, I am grateful.

Transplant1

Everyone reading this article should know that this is all a hoax. Gunner already said that the pay to play sport costs will not sustain. You all should know that this levy will fail. Even if you want it to pass, it is time to stop kicking a dead horse and go after Columbus. Properly fund the schools. Not through taxes. Someone please man up and take the fight to the people who control this. UNCONSTITUTIONAL. That is how the schools are funded in Ohio. I fought for this country, for this right to vote, for freedom, and I am sick and tired of people of a community, a team of sorts, bickering and fighting over something that can be rectified through proper attrition and channels. Politics are rough and dirty, but we need to unite and move fwd. Take all of your bickering, fighting, nothing better to do than write on this forum and move on. Someone PLEASE put together a group and go. If the district does not work, move up the chain. All political roads in Ohio lead to Columbus. Grow a set and go get it.

SamAdams

You're right that school funding in Ohio is at the root of at least SOME of the problems, and that it needs to be corrected. At the same time, even if the State became a distributor of funds to all, you'd still find Districts trying to take advantage. Worse, we already spend FAR too much per student and get FAR too little return on the investment.

I did some research a few years ago, and found that the per capita spending per student here is actually MORE in many cases than tuition at a private — and usually better — school would be. Yes, the way we fund schools needs to be changed. But the way schools spend money ALSO needs to be changed even more urgently. And don't even get me STARTED on the claptrap that is "Common Core..." 2+2=5 indeed!

VOTENO

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VOTENO

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reader

Prediction

The board of education will meet the morning after the November election to vote to place the defeated levy on the ballot in February.

BradChuros

Don't support Perkins police either then. Talk about misuse of public funds, oh but how fast you all forgot about that. Where's mcclung? Prison, still a lot of his guys still on that force. But a blind eye turned to them. Drunk officers etc...more recently.

Centauri

And no theft and other charges for one police detective who was fired for being dishonest during the investigation of stolen firearms.

The fired police chief was let out of prison a couple of months early as I was told. He also served no prison time for the Ohio state charges. His Ohio sentence was to be served concurrently with the federal sentence. I think that the former police chief only served about 10 or 11 months total.

VOTENO

.

gramafun

removing even "supposed" problems is better than having any suspicion of wrong doing later on. I think this is the right thing to do. Even if my opinion is from the outside looking in. This remvoes any question of wrong doing on anyone's part and makes things on on even playing field. No one should be "cranking" about this decision unless they had an agenda.

Bherrle

Not cranking about the decision Gramafun. Cranking about the SR's bias reporting style. An investigtaion into these "allegations" was closed over a month ago, yet the SR still writes that supporters are alleged to have done something wrong. They don't say an investigation found no wrong doing.

gramafun

That is my point and you just reinforced it. It is the PRECEPTION of wrong doing, even after the case is closed. Biased or not by the reporting of the SR, if I had a dog in this show, I would stay away from any indication of impropriety that I could, so tongues dont and can't wag later on. If the levy passes you can't be blamed in the slightest for anything ....can you? No, you can't. Clean hands.

asecretlife

The SR printed an article talking about donations given to Perkins school. Those donation were given to specific sports/groups as specified by the person/ business donating. What I don't understand is when I went to one of the BOE meetings in the summer it was stated by Gunner that any donation given is a general donation to be shared by all sports/groups. He stated the person donating the money cannot specify where they want the money to go. ANOTHER LIE!!

Wald

Another of many lies.

gramafun

did you look at the rules to make sure this is correct? Instead of taking someone's WORD for it, find out for yourself and then, if they are lying, confront them with the lie. You want the lying to stop....be prepared by knowing the rules and confronting the liar. This is such an elementary thing it surprises me that no one seems willing to do this yet you all have complaints about Gunner.

Why is it that you don't find out the rules and then confront him if he is lying to you. He can't do anything to you if you catch him in his lies. Are you all afraid of him or what? It seems to me if you have the strength of your convictions on here, you should have NO PROBLEM confronting him with the lies you say he tells and what he is doing wrong. Unless he has a way to shoot you where you stand, I would be on my feet and poitely telling him the exit to la la land with his lies.

Truth or Dare

So you're telling me that if I were to walk into the Athletic Director's office with a $1,400 donation, asked for it to go towards the ridiculous PAY TO PLAY fees for 2 of those involved in a specific sport, you know, to help with those that can't afford such a ridiculous fee, I would be told I couldn't specify? Really? Since when? That's a good way to loose donations and votes!

underthebridge

I think that the law requires non-profit organizations (I think the schools fall under that) use donations in the way that the donor requests. But, if you are wanting to make sure that the $ goes to the persons intended -- you might want to go directly to them.

sugar

This Bherrle guy has to be getting something for all the effort he is putting into countering arguments on this site. What is it Bherrle? A salary? a bonus for a passing levy? Or a big fat retirement check when you're 53?

Bherrle

I am getting nothing Sugar, except being blindly accused again. Another totally baseless accusation.

There are people in this world who stand up for what they believe in without "getting something."

Bherrle

I am getting nothing Sugar, except being blindly accused again. Another totally baseless accusation.

There are people in this world who stand up for what they believe in without "getting something."

underthebridge

Don't kid yourself Bherrie. You get things. They are intangible, but there are benefits you gain from this.

Bherrle

You are correct. The satisfaction of doing what I feel is right.

EZOB

Bherrle,
Your many efforts draws my appraise but I really don't think you get it. To put it a different way, You are asking taxpayers to share their wealth or divide their wealth as some would put it. Surely you must support O'Bama Care. We taxpayers have head a steady diet of these plans and taxes increases and are fed up. Taking money by levy increaes has grown old on us. Time and Time again you've cried wolf and we backed you only to be S#$T on. Down in November! You never made a meeting date either.

Bherrle

EZOB,

No, I do not support ObamaCare, and never did, nor am I an Obama supporter. I will comment more later today.

Truth or Dare

"There are people in this world who stand up for what they believe in without getting something". Boy if that don't work both ways my friend, because what you're seeing are the Perkins/ Taxpayers/Voters standing up for themselves! You know what they're not getting? A school district whose Administration, BOE and faculty aren't doing squat regarding a State Supreme Court ruling regarding the UNCONSTITUTIONAL FUNDING OF SCHOOLS THRU PROPERTY TAXES! With a levy that's failed twice, any road-trips planned in the future for Columbus? How many trips/attempts has Perkins School's Administration, BOE and Faculty made to address this 20+ yr. issue?

You know, all it takes is one conversation w/a long-time school employee whose teaching job has been cut in half because the levy didn't pass. The anger and resentment was written all over their face, let alone expressed in their voice! I thought to myself, oooooooh, let's not go there with this one. We've known them far to long and love them far to much, are grateful to them for all their years of dedication to our children, and I certainly don't want to hurt that relationship just because we wouldn't see eye to eye.

Hey Underthebridge; It really was a hypothetical question, because I don't have such $$$$'s to contribute, but what I still need to know for those times I can contribute, am I allowed to designate where my anonymous donation will go and count that just that is done with it? You see, that makes a huge difference to me. Pretty sure there are those commenting here that can answer such a question. As for going directly to the source I would like it to go, sometimes folks aren't so apt to just graciously accept such donations when they've been forced into a corner regarding an either/or situation. Hence, we all have a right to what it is we believe in, our principles and standing our ground regarding them! There are those that would refuse it based upon the principle surrounding this entire matter, and that's a difficult concept for the others to grasp, the word NO!

underthebridge

We had a family member die and she wanted to have a small donation made to the nursing home that cared for her. We were told by the nursing home administrator that if we designated it for a particular program that they were required by law to honor that.

PyrkinsPyrate

how many more times must we vote on this?

Bherrle

All I can do / have time for right now is to laugh hard at how inaccurate the above is, and to point out that some people will say anything to try to tarnish someone else, or to try create controversy.

Bherrle

Pyrate,

Why did u take away your original post attacking me yet again?

Bherrle

I cannot predict how many more times Pyrate.

Centauri

QUESTION to the Perkins Local SD pro-levy supporters.

Which law firms and attorneys has the Perkins Local SD employed the past 15 years?

Anybody can answer.

Bherrle

On a short break right now, just reading this. I see 15th answered. I didn't know the answer. What is the relevance of this question? Not being smart, I'm missing the point of the question?

Centauri, you seem like a reasonable person. We r not on here all day long. Not getting a quick answer doesn't mean we are dodging anything. I would hope u would agree. Be back later tonight.

Centauri

Thank you for the answer. I believe that you are a NO voter. Have you noticed that the pro-levy people refuse to answer questions? A couple of the pro-levy people have been busy stalking me with their troll and flamer actions.

Until the pro-levy people start answering the questions with honest answers, VOTE NO! What are the pro-levy people hiding?

VOTENO

.

underthebridge

Additional legal counsel is http://www.snlaw.com/about/

Julie R.

Stumphauzer & O'Toole and Wickens & Panzer are the law firms and attorneys that have been employed by the Perkins Local SD for the past 15 years?

Those are two great big law firms from Lorain County. Stumphauzer & O'Toole (the former Baumgartner & O'Toole) were the attorneys for Metroparks --- the case that ended up costing the Erie County taxpayers 3.2 million. The retired Lorain County judge Joseph Cirigliano was also involved in that case. Rich Stumphauzer is also Vermilion's law director who uses his Lorain County law firm to handle legal issues for the city of Vermilion. When the city of Vermilion, Stumphauzer, and his Lorain County law firm refused to provide itemized copies of what they were charging the Vermilion taxpayers, the former Vermilion mayor, Jean Anderson, filed a lawsuit against them. Roger Binette (of course) ruled in favor of Stumphauzer & O'Toole and so did the 6th District Court of Appeals. Anderson then took it all the way to the Ohio Supreme Court and won.

I believe the infamous Elsebeth Baumgartner (no relation to Baumgartner & O'Toole) also made allegations about that law firm years ago --- something about them defrauding the taxpayers of the Benton-Carroll-Salem school district. I believe she also made allegations that they falsified grants for a certain Erie County prosecutor's ferry boat business.

Wickens & Panzer is the big Lorain County law firm that Erie County's favorite rent-a-judge Joseph Cirigliano joined about 5 or 6 years ago. Right after Cirigliano joined, the firm merged with a small Sandusky law firm. At the time of the merger, the husband of the Erie County probate court judge Beverly McGookey was an attorney in that small Sandusky law firm.

What a small world.

Centauri

Never trust anybody who evades, tap dances around questions or refuses to answer questions. VOTE NO!

More people are asking me where to get those NO signs.

wantin2know

The truth behind the levy issue is greed. Who benefits most from this levy passing......the administration and employees. Two thirds of the expense is spent on SALARIES AND BENEFITS. Have any concessions, other than pay freezes been offered by the employees? These reductions in pay and benefits have been taken nationally by everyone else? Is this the real motive for seeking passage of the levy and the underhanded ways that have been taken to get it passed?
Look at the salary and benefit structure and costs which make up a majority of the total expense....then make a decision as to why the levy is being attempted. Is Gunner willing to not accept his $300.00 per month car allowance? Are the teachers willing to take less for "the good of the students"? Or is the whole issue about "ME"?

Wald

The truth behind the levy is that they need to replace the money that was moved (stolen) from the operating budget (unethically) in order to build an unnecessary, lavish new high school.

observer

Just took a drive and went down Bogart Rd. from Columbus Ave to Rt.250. The "Vote No" signs were numerous. I didn't see them the last time the levy was up for vote, and now more people are showing their lack of trust for this administration. More and more people are waking up to the ineptness of Gunner and the BOE. Sorry, BHerrle, I believe your levy is "toast". :)

Wald

If they couldn't pass it in August with such a highly motivated group, then there is no way it will pass in November. Also, I love the Vote No signs right next to and across from the high school!

Bherrle

Wald,

Yeah, those signs are really great. Sends a real good message to our students, teachers, and parents.

Your entitled to oppose the levy, but couldn't you at least do it with some class? The property owners have the right to post the signs. Do you really need to get enjoyment out of it?

Wald

The signs do send a good message to the students, teachers, and parents. They say that the taxpayers aren't going to be lied to, threatened, or bullied by their superintendent. They say that people will stand up for what they believe. And you want to talk about not conducting yourself with class? Start with your super. And yes, I do get enjoyment out of people who stand up to tyrants, like those who put up the No signs. We don't all just do what we're told and believe what we're told to believe.

fifteenthgreen

Class, bherrle? Reread the above article you're on here blogging about.

Wald

The pot is calling the kettle black.

Bherrle

Observer,

I drive that route every day and have seen the signs, they have been up for several days now.

It is not my levy, our just the supporters levy. It is the communities levy. We are all entitled to our opinions, but in the end, we swim, or we sink, as a community.

Centauri

Still no answers from the pro-levy people. Thank you to the "NO" voters for providing answers.

I have been told that the pro-levy people going door to door before the last levy election ignored No Trespassing, No Solicitors and No Soliciting signs.

Ignore Ohio trespassing law? Why?

If one of you pro-levy people tripped and broke an ankle or leg, would you sue the property owner for injuries?

Bherrle

Centauri,

To your last question, no, I would not sue anyone.

To your question on signs, I can only answer that I myself rang a bell at a house with a "No Soliciting" sign. The sign was at the very bottom of the door window, it was older, and I simply didn't see it. It was at about ankle height. As soon as I did see it, after my first ring, I felt bad, and I turned and left. I would suspect that may have happened elsewhere. Obviously, I can't speak for the whole group of people who helped. There was no group concerted effort to ignore these signs.

Bherrle

Centauri,

To your questions regarding tax valuations. Commercial property valuations are challenged every year, if the tax due drops by more than $1,000, or if the property owner challenges an increase in valuation.

Residential property is looked at every three years when the county does assessments, with special attention paid to properties with new valuations lower than recent sale value.

Currently, $1.9 million dollars is owed in unpaid, overdue, property taxes. $500,000 of this is owed by the Maui Sands property alone. The school district has no legal position to take action on back taxes, as the collection authority lies with the County Treasurer.

There are also open valuation disputes on commercial property. KBI is one example. KBI's position is that the property and land is worth $2 million dollars, despite the fact the same property and land was purchased for $25 million. This dispute is several years old.

Bherrle

I have some questions. Anyone can answer.

Why is OK for anyone against the levy to make accusation or allegation without proof?

Why is OK for rumors to be spread with no proof? Why is expected that a pro-levy person has to disprove a rumor that is not based on fact or reality. Is the community really benefiting from this type of behavior?

Why is OK to personally attack people, as Pyrate recently did to me?

Why is OK for levy opposer to not answer questions?

PyrkinsPyrate

How did I personally attack you?
The key difference that needs to be noted is I am just some Troll sitting here amusing myself. I am not a quasi-official spokesman, whether appointed or not, your prior posts indicate that you think you speak for the Board and the pro-levy group. I am not pretending to be anything more than a private citizen with an opinion so I can play loose and fast and enjoy some hyperbole and irony and satire if need be. I saw how you act at these meetings, how you look at the man, it is not healthy how you worship him.
But bear in mind, I am held to a lower standard of conduct because I only speak for myself and I am not on here lying to get people's money.

Bherrle

To the unproven rumors regarding "extra money" in the football program, that football players don't have to pay now, and that some athletes have not made their first payment.

First, there is no "football program" account or fund. There is an "Athletic Dept Fund." That fund typically has flucuating amounts of money in it at any given time due to revenues and expenses of the Athletic Programs that occur weekly, monthly, etc. Is is no "extra money."

All athletes still have to pay. All athletes have made their first payments. This is kept track of and watched closely. If someone hasn't made that first payment, they can't play.

observer

Why are we still having to vote on a levy that has been soundly defeated twice already? Why doesn't the BOE simply move the operating funds back and deal with maintaining the current buildings until the economic situation improves? Why can't the BOE understand ''no'' when the community has told them twice? Why is Bherrle still in denial about the fact that the majority of people don't support the levy, and it's going to fail again?

Rosa

I associate Perkins with Congress, they do not care about the majority of the community, only their personal gains. It is not about "support our students". It is good for students to learn to make choices in life and know that they cannot have everything. So choose ONE sport to play for the year, and do more worthwhile things with your time. They should volunteer, and how about having more quality family time, more family dinners, walks, going to some museums, instead of all the school extra curricular activities. And I agree with "observer", it is truly assinine to be voting on this again. Is this going to like voting on Obamacare 42 times??!! lol...

Centauri

Fiscal Responsibility.

What is it?

QUESTION: How has the Perkins School District shown fiscal responsibility to the tax payers?

http://www.mackinac.org/archives...
"The Six Habits Of Fiscally Responsible Public School Districts"

These habits can also benefit Ohio schools.

QUESTION: How much money was paid to all of those law firms and attorneys through the past 15 years?

QUESTION: What is the interest rate on that bank loan?

QUESTION: Why was that bank loan so necessary if the inside millage was moved?

I recall reading in Mr. Gunner's first Superintendent Contract that he was to move into the School District. That first contract was online and I believe that I posted a link to it. Was it taken down from the internet?

Mr. Gunner's current contract:
http://www.sanduskyregister.com/...

http://www.sanduskyregister.com/...
"Gunner said he will start the relocation process with plans to move his wife, Carol, and children, Matthew and Emily, into the district."

http://www.sanduskyregister.com/...
"He was granted a three-year, $104,500 contract starting Aug. 1."
Please note the 2010 dates of the news articles. I believe that both were from 2008 and not 2010.

QUESTIONS: Why was Mr. Gunner allowed to disregard moving into the school district? Who allowed this?

Centauri

http://maps.co.lucas.oh.us/areis...
Parcel number: 44-92628
Sale Date: 7/2/2008

http://apps.co.lucas.oh.us/rec/S...

Lucas County Recorder
Recorded: 7/2/2008 9:14:26 AM
Grantee: GUNNER, JAMES P / GUNNER, CAROL A

It appears to me from what information that I have, that Mr. Gunner moved directly from Bryan, Ohio to Oregon, Ohio.

Centauri

http://thesaurus.com/browse/yes-...
Synonyms for yes-people

I posted the date of Mr. Gunner's house purchase in Oregon, Ohio for a reason.

When was the first contract signed in 2008?

$300 per month automobile reimbursement? That is $3600 per year taxable. Did the school district send Mr. Gunner tax forms to report this $300 a month to the IRS?

Cellular telephone and internet access will be paid by
the Board as a taxable fringe benefit of $150 per month. That is another $1800 a year taxable. Were tax forms sent to Mr. Gunner?

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