LOCAL VOICES: Fight for your right to Tea Party

Sandusky High School graduate attending Ashland University To be a faction a group must be actua
Sandusky Register Staff
May 13, 2010


Sandusky High School graduate attending Ashland University

To be a faction a group must be actuated by an impulse that is contrary "to the rights of other citizens, or to the permanent and aggregate interests of the community"

James Madison, Federalist 10

This column is in direct response to a comment about my last column.

The topic was about the Tea Party movement being a faction of the kind James Madison warned about in Federalist 10 of the Federalist Papers.

First we have to remember the context which this was written. Madison was arguing for the creation of a centralized government, over a small, more direct, democracy. Obviously history shows us that Madison and the Federalist Party won this debate, and the creation of the government as we know it was the result. Federalist 10 tells us that factions in a democracy are much more dangerous than in a republic, because they have more power to impose their will on the minority.

Now we have to address the issue of whether the Tea Party movement is even a faction to begin with.

As Madison said, a faction has to work against the rights of other citizens. From what I can tell, this is not the Tea Party movement at all. They are making a call for government to return to what they believe are constitutional principles: More representation from elected officials, a smaller more principled government, better management of tax money. These principles seem far from contrary "to the rights of other citizens."

So, if what the Tea Party movement stands for is perfectly acceptable, and if America governed by a republican form of government, then it is laughable to consider the Tea Party as a dangerous faction able to impose its will on the minority. What seems even more interesting is how much resistance there is to this movement from the Democratic Party. It seems to me that what the Tea Party has been preaching is applicable to both parties.

Both parties need to take a look at their heritage and realize that these messages are not so crazy after all. With a government that is spending an unprecedented amount, maybe a message asking for fiscal responsibility is not so bad. With elected officials making decisions on how much money they can get for voting for a bill, maybe a message asking for elected officials to listen to their constituents more is not so bad. With the government looking to control more and more of our lives in ways that have previously been used by Marxist societies, maybe a message asking for a limited principled government is not so bad.

Years ago, people had a vision of a nation where citizens did not have to be concerned with the government interfering with their lives. They fought and died for the liberties we have today. Great men like James Madison fought for the creation of a government where groups could come together in like interest and voice their opinions.

Men like Madison, Hamilton and Washington all believed a republic would allow for groups to voice their concerns about government, but not allow for overwhelming strength in numbers.

Whether you agree with what the Tea Party movement says or not, does not matter. The fact is our Founders set up our government so that they might voice their opinions. The next time you hear about this movement on the news, or read about it in the paper, just be thankful our government was created the way it was, and be thankful that we have the rights we do.



you must be kidding... a coffee party? what has this nation come to? next thing will be the pepsi and coke party... no and again no!


Since when? Since you constantly deride the efforts of the Tea Party with your latent sexual fantasies, at least in your description of them.

Also, nothing wrong with participation. You have again misinterpreted and misrepresented my position with exaggeration and innuendo. Which page of the talking points are those from?

The problem is that is the two movements are but a miniature version of the abomination that is DC. More politics as usual from the new New Dealers. I hope they at least have the decency to better launder the money they front to the Coffee Party.

brutus smith

Afraid of the tea party movement?? Huh??? Anyways since when is wanting more people to participate in the process partisan? A whole lot of people have become disenfranchised with the tea party movement because they have seen who's behind it. They are welcome to join.


Not true, brutus. If people are opposed to the Tea Party, as you are, it would seem that another fiercely partisan group would also meet with disdain. Like the D's and R's, the only thing they are opposed to is opposition. However, it does serve to show how scared the D's are of the Tea Party movement, a point I made that many of you libs inaccurately criticized. Let the admissions and apologies flow like a river.

brutus smith

Heaven forbid wetzu an organization that encourages people to participate in our Democracy. The less the better according to people like you.


Unfortunately, the Coffee Party is little more than a Democratic front group that simply wants (D) legislation rubber-stamped, and it is not even thinly veiled. It is true that the present Tea Party trends too closely to the R's, but the Coffee Party appears to be on the D's payroll.


" Tired of the Tea Party? Try the Coffee Party:

MISSION: The Coffee Party Movement gives voice to Americans who want to see cooperation in government. We recognize that the federal government is not the enemy of the people, but the expression of our collective will, and that we must participate in the democratic process in order to address the challenges that we face as Americans. As voters and grassroots volunteers, we will support leaders who work toward positive solutions, and hold accountable those who obstruct them.

Washington Post story: http://tinyurl.com/y9hdxzj

Coffee Party website: http://coffeepartyusa.com/ "

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" Tired of Tea Party goofiness? Try the Coffee Party:

MISSION: The Coffee Party Movement gives voice to Americans who want to see cooperation in government. We recognize that the federal government is not the enemy of the people, but the expression of our collective will, and that we must participate in the democratic process in order to address the challenges that we face as Americans. As voters and grassroots volunteers, we will support leaders who work toward positive solutions, and hold accountable those who obstruct them.

Washington Post story: http://tinyurl.com/y9hdxzj

Coffee Party website: http://coffeepartyusa.com/ "


tea parties... sad, two-party state result. someday you'll figure it all out. want tea? go back to england! i'll stick to coffee.


The two parties that have been in power for a long time have changed federal laws to make it exceedingly difficult for a third party to compete. Funny that… So, unless you are a crazy billionaire, like Ross Perot, fat chance. Look at the libertarian poster boy Ron Paul. He switched to the republican party just so he could get included in debates. Then fox kicked him out debates because his polling numbers “weren’t high enough”. I’d like to see a third party, or better yet, no parties. But there’s about as much chance of that happening as Ron Paul getting elected president.


Of course we need a third party. The saying that there are two sides to every coin is not correct. There are three, if one stops to think about it, both sides and the edge. Life is not two dimensional and if we can select a Miss America from 50 candidates, we should have at least THREE choices for a president, one of which should be a woman.


In my opinion, more and more people are going to start reaching out to a third party. Somewhere along the line the gears are going to start turning, and people are going to realize that the Democrats and Republicans are are failing us miserably. Like BobWilliams said, "They're simply two sides of the same tired coin".

And it will only be a matter of time until the Libertarians publicly call out the Republican party on their calculated Tea Party takeover. Who knows, maybe the Tea Party movement will be divided in two, weeding out the desperate bandwagon riding neocons, from the non-partisan constitutionalists.


BobWilliams wrote: "Perhaps we should ask 'how are we to stop our slide down the slippery slope of neo-Roman corporatism'?"

The only way is to fully embrace individualism and fully reject the bloody and irrational religion of collectivism. Libertarianism is the only political philosophy that does this.


To gryphyn,

Perhaps we should ask 'how are we to stop our slide down the slippery slope of neo-Roman corporatism'?

pntbutterandjelly hit the nail on the head - Mexico is not one of the states in the union; Mexico ignores Uncle Sam's minimum wage laws, OHSHA,EPA and a government soup of other regulations; but Ohio can't! Therein lies the problem.

Then there is the exportation of jobs to communist countries like Red China. Ohio loans China our tax dollars to build copycats of our factoriies! There's a copycat of the Sandusky Delphi plant (now owned by KBI) in Shanghai! Not only do we export our jobs out-of-country, we tax victims of Ohio fund it. That's abominable!

The way forward is to stop voting the same Republicans and Democrats who, once in office, do little more than copy each other. They're simply two sides of the same tired coin.

We need to repeal the Ohio legislation that allows foreigners to take out loans from our tax dollars that were originally set aside for Ohio businesses.

That is something a Libertarian State Representative can do, such as Judy Kayden for House District 80 or yours truly - Bob Williams for House District 58.

At the federal level, I cannot recommend the LPO candidates because these folks are new to Libertarianism and carry too much neocon baggage.

That said, Matesz and Leach for Governor/Lt Gov gets the thumbs up.


I stand corrected. I should have said that unless we learn from the mistakes of our past, we will not move forward. The question that I still have is 'how are we prepared to move forward and what will be our goal?'


FLASH! "Whirpool is going to move their operations out of Evansville, Ind. plant to Mexico on March 21st. This comes after receiving $19,000,000 in federal stimulas money as their "fair share". (It smells like "moving money" to me.) Can Clyde's plant be far behind? Are ya' p-oed yet? Are ya' scared yet? You ought to be because nothing and no one is sacred from this Right Wing conspiracy to gut America for $$$ to corporations (and it really has NOTHING to do with Unions...only more money for the already too well to do.)
Ps. Had anyone heard this news before? It should be on S.R. front page and on other news medias.


To gryphon,

You wrote "Looking back hasn't done anything", but it has - looking back in the late 1700's brought a neo-Roman republic to America.

In 1776, the year that Thomas Jefferson penned his Declaration of Independence, a man in London penned his first volume of "The Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire". His name was Edward Gibbons and that volume and succeeding volumes of his Roman history captured the imaginations of the grammar-schooled Americans who read it (grammar schools taught Greek and Roman, so they had a natural affinity for most things Roman, writing under Roman pen names like Brutus and Cato).

This lot of Romanphiles read Gibblons's histories and began to lament and criticize the Articles. They said to each other (to paraphrase) - "We could've made a government that lasted a thousand years like those Romans did! But instead we have this confederation that Jefferson said we'll need a rebellion every twenty years to keep it oiled." So they decided to make a Roman government, and did!

The Constitution without the ten amendments appended to it is pure Roman. Looking back over 15 centuries did that, and that's what looking back has done.


To Duhast,

Most budding historians sit in their undergraduate history classes memorizing material for their next test, leaving little time to examine popular claims retold by professors who learned much of their material in the same manner. One such popular claim is that our young nation's national law - the Articles of Confederation, "were a weak and temporary measure to get us by during the revolution and to some extent after. It needed to be replaced and was".

But is this urban legend true? We need to go back to that day in 1787 in Philadelphia when voters had authorized their representatives to make amendments to our national law, not to overthrow it. There were more foul smells that week than those coming from the adjoining stables. A history lesson about the concessions that were made in drafting the constitution would go far to explain what is happening today.

The Federalist Papers, including Madison's #10, were simply propaganda written to appear as being pro-federalist when in reality they were promoting an anti-federalist Roman-type government. True federalists, such as George Mason (George Mason University in Fairfax, VA is named after him, but it isn't private!), pointed out that the Articles were working fine. But the Romanphile propagandists had already confused people by labelling true federalists as "Anti-Federalists" and usurping the term "Federalists" for themselves to serve as camouflage for their anti-federalist Romanphile intentions.

Meanwhile Thomas Jefferson was overseas and unable to put a stop to the Romanphile disinformation campaign here at home. The result is a Roman-type republic, that has now descended into global empire like the Romans before them. We Yanks own very little anymore, having to rent what we call ours from the government or else face losing it. Our neo-Roman military fights neo-Roman wars around the globe, often in support of CIA-installed dictators such as ex-Soviet drug lord Hamid Karzai in Afghanistan and Mr "Ten Percent" in Pakistan.

Under the Articles, a declaration for war had to be unanimous among the States. The Articles were a vast improvement over the neo-Roman Constitution we have today. The only thing good about the Constitution is the Bill of Rights - 10 remnants from the Articles that our Founding Fathers managed to append to the neo-Roman document.

The history of 1787 is the biggest reason why I'm a member of the Libertarian Party and not a member of the Constitution Party (but if they were to change their name to the Articles Party, hmmmm . . . ).


Suppose for a minute that all of you posters have been elected to run this country. Please come up with a plan that will be better than what we have now.

Looking back hasn't done anything and I sincerely believe that we have to have a new plan if this country is going to stay great.

My only suggestion is to stop thinking in terms of I and start thinking 'we the people'.

Thank you in advance.


There is no defense for a person or a cause that is right.

brutus smith

goofus, I understand your wanting to defend Rubio, but Bunning????? The dude has been an off the wall whack job for quite some time. That would be like me defending Byrd's Klan membership in the 60's.

One thing I have to say about Republicans is when 2 of them want the same office, let the mudslinging begin. Kinda like Noe in Lucas County.


Jim Bunning is a hero. A few days ago the democrats endorsed a pay as you go policy. It only took a few days when now they have introduced a bill to enlarge the deficit by extending unemployment benefits. In this bill is an increased funding for highway projects,a plan to spare doctors the 21% cut in Medicare payments,increases funding for the small business loans programs,they need consumers not loans, expands funding for the Flood Insurance and copyright licenses used by satellite television providers along with unemployment extension. The problem is that unemployment insurance extension can be paid for with Obama's stimulus,porkulus,bill's leftover money without increasing the deficit. I suppose with the midterms coming, the democratic party needs the stimulus bill money to buy votes.


Rubio: Crist leaked AmEX statements; charges legit
Posted 2/25/2010 12:05 AM ET E-mail | Save | Print

By Brendan Farrington, AP Political Writer
TALLAHASSEE, Fla. — Senate candidate and former Florida House Speaker Marco Rubio released a torrid letter Wednesday accusing Gov. Charlie Crist's campaign of leaking Rubio's state Republican Party American Express statements showing nearly $110,000 in charges over 25 months.
Rubio also justifies the charges as legitimate travel to promote the Republican Party of Florida, help Republican candidates and participate in county party fundraisers around the state.

"It is clear these internal documents were taken from the RPOF by former Chairman Jim Greer, or someone working for him, and were leaked to the media by the Crist Campaign," Rubio wrote to newly elected Chairman John Thrasher.

Greer resigned from the party under pressure after reports of lavish spending on jet planes and extravagant meals and entertaining. Greer's executive director, Delmar Johnson, was given a secret contract that pumped his compensation up to $408,000.

"As a point of reference, during this time period, the charges on my card amounted to approximately 3 percent of the Party's total American Express expenditures. In fact, I had fewer expenses in two years than my opponent's hand-picked RPOF Executive Director spent in just one month," Rubio wrote.

The Miami Herald and the St. Petersburg Times, which obtained the records, listed several personal items found on the statements, including grocery bills and a purchase from a wine store near his Miami home. Rubio said he personally paid American Express $16,052.50 for nonparty expenses.

"To the greatest extent possible, I made sure the Party never paid for any personal charges," Rubio told Thrasher.

Sharon Day, the state party's national committeewoman, defended Rubio and said she was angry someone would try to use the credit card statements against him.

"I'm not upset with Marco Rubio at all," she said. "If you can raise $12 million on $110,000, we all should be that good."

Day said Greer told her and other party leaders in a private meeting that if he went down, he would take others down with him. Greer didn't immediately return a call seeking comment.

"It's very convenient that the only one that gets released (is Rubio's)," she said. "This is silly. They want to talk about $110,000 in 25 months when Delmar spent $130,000 in one month."

Reached at home, Thrasher, who replaced Greer last Saturday, said he had no idea who had access to the statements.

"It's unfortunate they were leaked. They're internal documents of the party," Thrasher said. "We're taking steps to make sure it doesn't happen again."

Rubio pointed out only top party officials had access to the statements and noted Greer was picked by Crist to run the party. Crist, who says he never carried a party charge card, has previously said the statements should be released.

"These actions are an appalling act of political desperation. The idea that the former chairman of the RPOF, or those working for the Governor, would selectively leak internal RPOF documents is disturbing. But sadly it is not surprising because these are the very men who put the party in the mess it is in today," Rubio said. "The Florida GOP under Jeb Bush was never run with this sort of arrogance, mismanagement, lack of integrity and lack of leadership."

The Crist campaign didn't immediately return a phone call and e-mails seeking comment.

Rubio said 89 percent of his expenses were for travel, lodging, and meals related to official party work.

"During this time I crisscrossed the state countless times for Lincoln/Reagan dinners, GOP fundraisers, and other party business. In all, more than half of my expenses were transportation costs: 40 percent for commercial airline travel and 14 percent for car rentals, tolls, parking and fuel," Rubio said.

Copyright 2010 The Associated Press. All rights reserved. This material may not be published, broadcast, rewritten or redistributed.

Brutus, be very careful about believing Crist and left wing websites, they prevaricate when they are going down the tubes. I'm not in this debate to lose. Your post like all of your posts are mere puffery. I imagine heads will roll when Greer and Crist are investigated fully.

pigeon farmer

Tea bagger = bawlsonchin. What a stupid name. Grab your bible, join at the gazebo, and pray to sarah palin.


brutus smith wrote: "libertarian, so people who don't buy into your half baked BS is a collectivist thug????"

Collectivism a half baked irrational religion that holds that groups are moral actors and agents with rights above and beyond the natural rights of their individual members.

A collectivist thug is a person who uses collectivism as a excuse to use or hire someone to use coercion, force or violence to violate any other person's natural rights-you qualify. Many people aren't collectivist or collectivist thugs-you are.
Shame on you. If you don't want to be called a collectivist thug, don't be one. All moral people should shame and ostracize collectivist/government thugs.

If my ideas are so half baked or BS, instead of writing pathetic train noises, why don't use demonstrate any errors you think I'm making? If I'm wrong I'll gladly concede.

brutus smith

Hey goofa$$, what do you think of your boyfriend Rubio now??

Gov. Charlie Crist said his rival for the U.S. Senate, Marco Rubio, has no one to blame but himself for double-billing the state and Republican Party of Florida for eight plane tickets when he was House Speaker. Rubio has accused Crist of leaking his party credit card records to The Miami Herald and St. Petersburg Times.

"If he wants to find out who to blame for this, he should look in the mirror. He is the one who made these charges, not me, not any of my friends,'' Crist said at a road construction event in Broward County. "I mean, you know, when you do something like that you ought to just take personal responsibility."


"The people will decide this issue,'' Crist said. "I think it’s pretty clear that they don’t like that kind of double dipping. It’s just like taxpayers money. You ought to treat those funds in a (very) sacred way...Like I said yesterday, welcome to the NFL. If you can’t take the heat get out of the kitchen."


Wonder how the Tea Partiers fancy their young star now, just learning that they and their economically strapped brethren in Florida have been supporting Rubio's personal lifestyle on their dime.

Somehow, I don't think all of them will swallow it whole.


"Wing-nuts, Wing-nuts,

"Neo-cons only live
to bite our tush"

Join the movement, jump on the crazy train!
woo woo, chugga chugga, woo woo!

brutus smith

Yes the tea partyers are being used by the Republican Party to fight against the "establishment" much like the Republicans used the anti war protesters of the 60's and 70's to divide the country. They always have to attack someone to try to make them look better. But remember the Republican party is the Establishment, who ways you are protesting against. So why after 8 years would you want more of it? They will use any means necessary to get back in power, even if it means destroying the middle class in the process. Let me say Senator Jim Bunning.


Tea Party Going International: First British Tea Party Set for Saturday
Seems a bit odd that the Brits would have a tea party -- the big one was something of a blow to the empire -- but...

Last night Allah linked one of the most obnoxiously condescending stories on the tea party (American division) I've ever had the misfortune to read.

The LA Times commissions a deeply snide and insulting sociological look at the Tea Partiers, reducing them, as is their wont, to little but crude and callow impulses. And who did they seek for this "analysis"? Democratic Party consultants, of course!

Note that the leftist media never bothers to wonder about what psychological inadequacies might drive all those smelly hippies and black-masked trust-fund anarchists they unfailingly refer to as "veterans, shopowners, mothers, and grandmothers, just plain folks expressing their discontent with war/capitalism/America."

Neither "average Americans," as they like to portray themselves, nor trailer-park "Deliverance" throwbacks, as their lefty detractors would have us believe, tea partyers are more highly educated and wealthier than the rest of America. Nearly 75% are college educated, and two-thirds earn more than $50,000.
More likely to be white and male than the general population, tea partyers also skew toward middle age or older. That's the tell. Most came of age in the 1960s, an era distinguished by widespread disrespect for government. In their wonder years, they learned that politics was about protesting the Establishment and shouting down the Man. No wonder they're doing that now.

Look closely at the tea partyer and what you see is a famil- iar American genus: a solidly middle-class, college-educated boomer, endowed by his creator with possessions, opinions and certain inalienable rights, the most important of which is the right to make sure you hear what he has to say.

The tea party is a harbinger of midlife crisis, not political crisis. For men of a certain age, it offers a counterculture experience familiar from adolescence -- underground radio, esoteric tracts, consciousness-raising teach-ins and rallies replete with extroverted behavior to shock the squares -- all paid for with ample cash.

The partyers are essentially replaying the '60s protest paradigm. (We're aging boomers ourselves, so we know it when we see it.) They fancy themselves the vanguard of a revolution, when in fact they are typical self-absorbed, privileged children used to having their way -- now -- and uninhibited about complaining loudly when they don't. It's the same demographic Spiro Agnew called "an effete corps of impudent snobs who characterize themselves as intellectuals."


The tea partyers' pictures and sound bites are so good, no one cares that their math doesn't add up: Cut taxes and the deficit but keep your hands off my Medicare; do something about jobs but don't increase spending. Everyone understands it's about something deeper.

Ah, tea partyer, we know ye well. One of your signs says "Listen to ME!" That's all that's ever really mattered -- the original "me generation" grabbing the spotlight and the world's attention by whatever means necessary. The rest, whether beads, bell bottoms or birther slogans, is just a means to the same end.

Again, we never saw this sort of crude disparagement of motive directed by the media at Obama's Zombies or any of the leftwing protests.

FROM: Ace of Spades HQ.com


CNN Poll: Majority says government a threat to citizens' rights
Posted: February 26th, 2010 09:00 AM ET

From CNN Deputy Political Director Paul Steinhauser

Fifty-six percent of Americans say the government poses an immediate threat to individual rights and freedoms.
Washington (CNN) – A majority of Americans think the federal government poses a threat to rights of Americans, according to a new national poll.

Fifty-six percent of people questioned in a CNN/Opinion Research Corporation survey released Friday say they think the federal government's become so large and powerful that it poses an immediate threat to the rights and freedoms of ordinary citizens. Forty-four percent of those polled disagree.

The survey indicates a partisan divide on the question: only 37 percent of Democrats, 63 percent of Independents and nearly 7 in 10 Republicans say the federal government poses a threat to the rights of Americans.

According to CNN poll numbers released Sunday, Americans overwhelmingly think that the U.S. government is broken - though the public overwhelmingly holds out hope that what's broken can be fixed.

The CNN/Opinion Research Corporation poll was conducted February 12-15, with 1,023 adult Americans questioned by telephone. The survey's sampling error is plus or minus 3 percentage points for the overall survey.

Filed under: 2010 • CNN Polls • Popular Posts

Dr Fill

This movement is really interesting but agreeably sad. It reminds me of the Christian religion where if you have a different opinion than that of the church that you are attending, you simply break away and start your own, as in the Pentecostal branch of Christianity.

Politics and religion seem to go hand in hand anyway. You might observe how the christian right melted into the Republican Party and basically supplied enough votes to sway past elections. It seems that now, the Republican Party is doing it's best to shed the religious right and I believe that this is what is the force behind the Tea Party.

Something I intend to spend some time on is to look at the roots of the Tea Party and see where it is grounded. My guess it will be back with the religious right movement that is showing so much displeasure with the Republicans. Ralph Reed, the former intern for Jack Abramoff with ties to Tom Delay and leader of the Christian Coalition, and his gang have to be involved somewhere in this. Ralph Reed is a bad dude!


It's so sad how this movement is being hijacked by a bunch of neo-cons, who can ignore the constitution when ever it goes against their interests. What started out as a campaign for liberty, small government, transparency in the fed, change in foreign policy etc., is now the vehicle for the republican party to seek reelection. They're basically riding on the coat tails of this popular movement, claiming it as their own. Sadly they're turning this movement into a joke, ultimately alienating the true independent, fiscal conservative, non-party base who helped create it.

They want to be a part of a movement against the establishment, when in fact they are the establishment. They want to get in position to drag this country down even further, after the democrats finish screwing everything up. Now that they've infiltrated this movement it's slowly going to turn more and more right wing partisan. Its funny how scared and threatened they are now by Ron Paul, or a third political party splitting the conservative vote.


Libertarian, "Paper or plastic?"
Jimbo, "I brought my own bags, thank you."

brutus smith

libertarian, so people who don't buy into your half baked BS is a collectivist thug????

Erie Countian

Gosh, "libertarian"'s phrase of the week must be "collectivist thug"!


Said like a childish collectivist thug.

brutus smith

libertarian, woo woo, chugga chugga, woo woo, watch out.


The heath care market has been progressively (pun intended) decimated through collectivization for the last 100 years to the fascist system we have now. The collectivist thugs at the AMA, unions and AARP and their government thug political allies have created a cartel the limits competition and choices while creating unlimited demand further drives up costs. Now the regressive socialist political thugs come up with a plan that they claim will solve the problems they have caused by doing more of what caused the problem to begin with.

I'm glad that the right is resisting the further collectivization of health care and trying to reverse the bastardized system-it's about time. But they are unwilling to go all the way and return to a free market. In addition they want to tax income that is not taxed instead of making all health care spending tax free.

Apparently, their are a number of collectivist thugs here perfectly will to hire government thugs and further dictate to me whether I buy health insurance, what's in the plan I'm forced to buy, whether I subsidize the health insurance of others and impose all kinds of others restriction on me and those providing the insurance and health care to me.

No person in the existence has the right to dictate these things to me. It is my natural right to make these decisions and choices on my own (or with the voluntary cooperation of others if I choose). These people are collectivist thugs and should be ashamed of themselves. All moral people should shame and ostracize collectivist/government thug.

brutus smith

wetzu, my plan is HR 676 single payer, but the public option will suffice for now. Woo woo chugga chugga woo woo.

brutus smith

wetzu, now that you found factcheck.org, you can factcheck the rest of your BS before you post it.


Based on your comments, brutus, it is clear that you still did not read the reviews. How can you have such disregard for fellow citizens as to deny them coverage in the name of politics? How failingly FDR of you. If you had a shred of comprehension or honesty you would see the obvious.

We'll see what form the initiative takes. Besides, this is just a diversionary tactic to cover up the fact that the administration has no answers in any other area effecting our country.


Have you ever used an HSA? It’s your money out of your pocket. You can’t get it back unless it’s for a medical reason. You determine how much to put in there each month. Now, I was recently put on a high deductable plan. After paying $400+ a month for my $3000 out of pocket (per person) insurance, I can’t afford to put any money (tax free or not) into the stupid HSA! Let’s say I max out the $6,000 to cover my (an my wife’s) yearly deductibles. It’s really not going to affect my taxes that much. I think HSAs are a red herring.

digger nick

Brutis, there will be no health care with public option. Make any wager you want, I am all in on this one. After the next 2 elections, you well may see the record 54 seats the Republican party took broken.

Richard Bebb

duhast -

"I’m not sure people are getting the whole mandate thing. If they pass a law to stop people being denied for pre-exiting conditions (which both sides seem to support) then everyone will wait and get insurance after they get sick. It’s like buying homeowners insurance after your house burns down"

Yes exactly.

The only problem is the mandate is unconstitutional so what do you do now ??


Richard Bebb

We will absolutely have to agree to disagree. The republican members of congress laid out conservative ideals yesterday at the health summit that directly contradict the democratic plan.

The right believes that individuals should be in charge of their own health care by setting up health savings accounts and being able to purchase across state lines, which would allow for the left's favorite talking points, "choice and competition."

The left on the other hand believe that the only way to reform health care is to involve the government and replace the individual with a series of government bureaucrats.

This is the ideological difference that has been on display for the past year or so, the right wants the choice to be up to the individual, while the left demands that the government make the choice for you, be it through a public option or insurance mandate.

Its all moot anyway as Barry has indicated that he supports congress ramming this down the American peoples throats through reconciliation. Even though the process of reconciliation has never been used for major legislation, only for budget issues. Barry has decided to change the rules, which will lead to democratic demise in November.



I thought this was about teaparties...

Sam, your argument is a bit skewed there. Just because you don’t like or agree with it doesn’t mean the motive behind it isn’t genuine. The Dem plan will cover many more people than the GOP plan. That has been cited by the CBO. Now, if you get sick and have huge medical bills, you won’t be able to pay your mortgage either will you?

I’m not sure people are getting the whole mandate thing. If they pass a law to stop people being denied for pre-exiting conditions (which both sides seem to support) then everyone will wait and get insurance after they get sick. It’s like buying homeowners insurance after your house burns down.

brutus smith

Wetzu, Oh it will be a little cheaper for healthy people, how wonderful. The GOP "bills" add taxes to the middle class, how wonderful. You get to claim, if you can afford it, a tax deduction for the extra taxes you pay, how wonderful. And when you look at the comparison column, the GOP is a bunch of no's, how wonderful. So` there you go wingnut, troll and a faithful follower of Glenn Beck.

brutus smith

Wetzu, Richard, goofus, nick, sam, you better get off the tracks, that Healthcare Reform train is coming, with a Public option too. Woo woo, chugachuggachugga woo woo.


Didn't read FcatCheck either, 'eh troll? Pitiful...

And you claim to be moral? The D's plans are immoral if for no other reason the horrific percentage of uncovered people.

"Wing-nuts, Wing-nuts,

brutus smith

Breaking News: The GOP has a Healthcare Plan, its called "Status Quo".



I'm no fan of ANYbody's plans (though I certainly more strongly oppose the liberal version), but the GOP did have several proposals that were presented and summarily dismissed by Pelosi and Reid quite a long time ago.

Meanwhile, if the Dems care so much about "helping" me, why would their plan cost me so much that I'm not sure I'll be able to continue to pay my mortgage if it passes? If the Dems care, why would their plan effectively result in nationalized healthcare, including all of the inherent government inefficiencies (rationing included)?

Does healthcare as a whole need some reform? Yes. But doing NOTHING is better than doing the something the Dems want to shove down my throat! I'll tell you where I'd personally like to shove their plan, but the Register doesn't let those words past its filter.

As far as I'm concerned, the single best option for reform is to leave the industry alone. And by "leave the industry alone," I mean TRULY leave it alone. Let insurance sales be made across state lines. Get lawyers out of the mix. And let the rest of us make the choices that WE believe best, not the ones some government hack thinks we should pick!


Since the whole issue entered congress a year ago, the republicans have had a plan. There have been a few republican ammendments added to the bill, but as a whole the democrats have shut the republicans out.


You apparently didn't look at the FactCheck reviews.

BTW, if your goal is covering as many people as possible then your obvious option is S. 391 Wyden/Bennett.


Richard, the GOP plan is like a passive mother saying, “Now you kids play nice!”. There is no substance. It’s like a “me too” proposal. Why didn’t they have a plan BEFORE? Why did it take Obama and a Dem. Congress to get them to produce one? They just didn’t care until it was a political issue for them. Now they claim to have a plan.

I don’t pretend that the Dem’s plan is perfect, but it appears they are interested in helping the American people whereas the GOP is only interested in helping business and insurance companies (who heavily line their election pockets). This is just my personal opinion based on observation. We can agree to disagree.


I propose a simple question here and that is, "If you were a shoe maker and had the ability to keep other shoe makers out of your sales area and thus be able to charge whatever you wanted....would you call that "fair play? If as the years went on you also esclated your price because of this "monoply of sorts"...would that be fair play? If you also made your shoes cheaper by leaving out quality materials....would that be fair play? If this process continued where many people couldn't afford shoes....would that be fair play?" I'm sure you have answered all these hypothetical questions with a "no". It would not be fair play or in the interest of the publc at large for anyone to set up monopolies. That, however, is only one ploy health insurance companies have used for many, many years. The big differance is...it's our health and lives they are toying with. The "shoes" have gotten extremely expensive and made extremely cheaply. Now...it's affecting more and more people. "IF" they didn't need regulating....then why are we in this position today? Everybody out there better watch out because "the other shoe is about to drop!" (and it could be yours!)

digger nick

People, fact is the tide is turning. Watch the Dimocrats get flushed over the next year. It's already happening.


FactCheck.org gives an overview of democratic,republican and bipartisan plans.


Richard Bebb

duhast, its silly to continue to come on here and stick to talking points about "how republicans have no plan" That is not true, go to gop.gov...


I will let it slide this time due to the fact that you did not watch the summit. I encourage you to watch the highlights, the republicans were the ones who offered ideas and facts.


Richard, I think the republicans would be in a better position if they actually had a plan to bring to the table. They don’t seem to be able to have a consensus amongst themselves. They seem more interested in blocking ANY health care reform than coming up with something they can get on board with.

I’m sure the clips of the meeting will be interesting and I look forward to seeing them when I get home tonight.

Richard Bebb

I think you confused Copy and Paste...

Baucus Drunk on the senate floor

Leahy Drunk As Well


Richard Bebb

The so called bi-partisan health summit was a joke. The republicans kept punking the monstrosity that the left calls health reform so Barry found it necessary to offer his counter point to every republican who spoke and then most times did not allow them to refute his nonsense. Which is fine he unfortunately is our president and he can do whatever he wants and he so eloquently put it.....


But dont call the health summit bi-partisan. The republicans are right there are certain issues we can agree but not with the current proposals still being kept on the table.

brutus smith

I see Boehner drank his lunch again.

Richard Bebb

Left Wing Mainstream Media = Obama Maniacs/Diehards Who Carry the Water for the Barry Administration

So no maybe state run is not accurate in the sense that the government is not controlling the talking points they spew every day. But it is fairly close to being so with the undying adoration and favourable media towards Barry.

brutus smith

Senator A$$ley from Iowa needs mental help.


Obama runs Fox???? Wow! News to me. State run news that is...


Counting lawyers as reputable businessmen is an oxy-moron. Obama still has nobody with the entrepeneur spirit. I've seen diggers numbers and they didn't come from Beck. The media is run by the state of Obama, but lately the AP have run a few articles slamming the annoited one. Quit bothering me, I have to watch Obama pout some more. I know the worthless one is on TV, I lost money, the market tanks every time the sap opens his mouth.


Dadgum Wing-nuts...

I long for the days of honest elections, like Al Franken.


Well, I guess we know digger watches Glen Beck. As Brutus posted, this claim is false.

You guys have to quit with the Kool-Aid comments when you have a big giant pitcher shaped hole in your wall. OOOHHHH YEAAAA!

brutus smith

Beck says less than 10 percent of Obama Cabinet has
worked in private sector

Fox News talk show host Glenn Beck has seized on a claim circulating on the Internet to argue that the Obama administration has little understanding of American business and is too focused on expanding government.

"History has proven over and over again — and so has the post office, for that matter — that government is not the answer," Beck said on his Nov. 30, 2009, show. "You need to unleash the people. The entrepreneurs. And if you are wondering how it is that the government can't see that — how they can be pondering even bigger stimulus packages as they stare the failure of the first one right in the face — I'll show you. Here are the past presidents and the number of appointees in their Cabinets with private sector experience — folks that have done more than write on the chalkboard; they've been out there, in the real world. Let's compare President Nixon — he's over 50 percent — with President Obama: Under 10 percent of his appointees have any experience in the private sector."

We did a little digging and found that the claim is based on a study by Michael Cembalest, the chief investment officer for J.P. Morgan Private Bank. In a Nov. 24, 2009, column titled "Obama's Business Blind Spot" and published on Forbes.com, Cembalest wrote, "In a quest to see what frame of reference the administration might have on this issue, I looked back at the history of the presidential Cabinet. Starting with the creation of the secretary of commerce back in 1900, I compiled the prior private-sector experience of all 432 Cabinet members, focusing on those positions one would expect to participate in this discussion: secretaries of State; Commerce; Treasury; Agriculture; Interior; Labor; Transportation; Energy; and Housing & Urban Development."

He continued, "Many of these individuals started a company or ran one, with first-hand experience in hiring and firing, domestic and international competition, red tape, recessions, wars and technological change. Their industries included agribusiness, chemicals, finance, construction, communications, energy, insurance, mining, publishing, pharmaceuticals, railroads and steel; a cross-section of the American experience. (I even gave [one-third] credit to attorneys focused on private-sector issues, although one could argue this is a completely different kettle of fish.) One thing is clear: The current administration, compared with past Democratic and Republican ones, marks a departure from the traditional reliance on a balance of public- and private-sector experiences."

In an accompanying chart, Cembalest reported that in the Obama administration, fewer than 10 percent of the Cabinet appointees counted under those rules had private sector experience. According to the chart, all other administrations going back to Theodore Roosevelt's had rates in at least the high 20s, with the Eisenhower and Reagan administrations approaching 60 percent. (He wrote in a footnote that the data came from a number of sources, including capsule biographies of Cabinet members posted on the Web site of the University of Virginia's Miller Center for Public Affairs.)

The chart — typically reprinted by itself, without Cembalest's accompanying narrative — circulated in the conservative blogosphere for a couple of days before eventually being picked up by Beck.

We wondered if the claim was right, so we did some math of our own.

In Obama's Cabinet, at least three of the nine posts that Cembalest and Beck cite — a full one-third — are occupied by appointees who, by our reading of their bios, had significant corporate or business experience. Shaun Donovan, Obama's secretary of Housing and Urban Development, served as managing director of Prudential Mortgage Capital Co., where he oversaw its investments in affordable housing loans.

Energy Secretary Steven Chu headed the electronics research lab at one of America's storied corporate research-and-development facilities, AT&T Bell Laboratories, where his work won a Nobel Prize for physics. And Interior Secretary Ken Salazar, in addition to serving as Colorado attorney general and a U.S. senator, has been a partner in his family's farm for decades and, with his wife, owned and operated a Dairy Queen and radio stations in his home state of Colorado.

Three other Obama appointees had legal experience in the private sector.

Secretary of State Hillary Rodham Clinton, Agriculture Secretary Tom Vilsack and Commerce Secretary Gary Locke spent part of their careers working as lawyers in private practice. Clinton and Vilsack worked as private-sector lawyers at the beginning of their careers, while Locke joined an international law firm, Davis Wright Tremaine LLP, after serving as governor of Washington state. At the firm, Locke "co-chaired the firm's China practice" and "helped U.S. companies break into international markets," according to his official biography. That sounds like real private sector experience to us.

Finally, Treasury Secretary Timothy Geithner worked for Kissinger Associates, a consulting firm that advises international corporations on political and economic conditions overseas.

The occupants of the two remaining Cabinet posts cited in the chart do not appear to have had significant private-sector experience: Labor Secretary Hilda Solis and Transportation Secretary Ray LaHood.

Obama's Cabinet has even more private-sector experience if you go beyond the nine. Two of the Obama appointees could be considered entrepreneurs — the very people Beck would "unleash." Vice President Joe Biden, officially a Cabinet member, founded his own law firm, Biden and Walsh, early in his career, and it still exists in a later incarnation, Monzack Mersky McLaughlin and Browder, P.A. (The future vice president also supplemented his income by managing properties, including a neighborhood swimming pool.) And Office of Management and Budget director Peter Orszag founded an economic consulting firm called Sebago Associates that was later bought out by a larger firm.

It's also worth noting that if you examine a larger group of senior Obama administration appointees, you'll find that more than one in four have experience as business executives, according to a June study by National Journal . That compared with the 38 percent the magazine found eight years earlier at the start of George W. Bush's administration. That's at least three times higher than the level claimed by Beck.

We tracked down Cembalest to ask about his methodology. He said any effort to address the topic is heavily subjective, and he expressed regret that his work had been used for political ends, saying that it was not his intention to provide fodder for bloggers and talk show hosts.

Cembalest said that he did discount the corporate experience of the three lawyers we identified — Clinton, Vilsack and Locke — and added that he awarded nothing for Donovan, Chu or Salazar, even though we found they had a fair amount private sector experience. Cembalest acknowledged fault in missing Salazar's business background, saying he would have given him a full point if he had it to do over again. But he added that the kind of private-sector experiences Chu and Donovan had (managing scientific research and handling community development lending, respectively) did not represent the kind of private-sector business experience he was looking for when doing his study.

"What I was really trying to get at was some kind of completely, 100 percent subjective assessment of whether or not a person had had enough control of payroll, dealing with shareholders, hiring, firing and risk-taking that they'd be in a position to have had a meaningful seat at the table when the issue being discussed is job creation," Cembalest said.

Cembalest said he has "written 250,000 words in research over the last decade, and every single thing I've ever done — except this one chart — was empirically based on data from the Federal Reserve" or another official source. "This is the one time I stepped out into making judgment calls, and I assure you I won't do it again. ... The frightening thing about the Internet is that people copy one chart from what you write and then it goes viral. So I've learned a lesson here that these kinds of issues are best left addressed by the people who practice them day in and day out."

Which brings us back to how Beck used Cembalest's data. We'll acknowledge that rating someone's degree of private-sector experience is an inexact science, and it's true that Beck accurately relayed the information contained in Cembalest's chart. But at PolitiFact we hold people accountable for their own words. So we rate Beck's claim False.

That's what happens when you clowns don't do your own research and rely on a baffling buffoon. Bwahahahahahah.

digger nick

A graph that showed past presidents and the percentage of each president's cabinet appointees who had previously worked in the private sector, you know a real life business, not a government job?
Remember what that is? ....... A private business???

Roosevelt - 38%*
Taft - 40%*
Wilson - 52%*
Harding - 49%*
Coolidge - 48%*
Hoover - 42%*
FDR - 50%*
Truman - 50%*
Eisenhower - 57%*
Kennedy - 30%*
LBJ - 47%*
Nixon - 53%*
Ford - 42%*
Carter - 32%*
Reagan - 56%*
GHWB - 51%*
Clinton - 39%*
GWB - 55%

And the Chicken Dinner Winner is........................

Obama - 8%* ---- This is the guy who wants to tell YOU how to
run YOUR life !!


YEP, EIGHT PERCENT! And these are the guys holding a "job summit" this week? It ought to go really well!


Once again you chant this “State Run Media” mantra. You are using the term incorrectly. That would denote that media outlets are not privately or publically owned, but owned and operated by the “State”. Were the networks you cite “state run” when Bush was in the Whitehouse and Republicans controlled congress?? You do our 1st amendment injustice when you claim that our media (other than Fox of course) are controlled in a similar manner to North Korea or China. You know Rupert Murdoch only became a US citizen so he could own more TV stations, right?


C'mon boys, center, take a deep breath, now mumble...

"Wing-nuts, Wing-nuts,


Why is it in the state run media that when unemployment goes up, it's always an UNEXPECTED jump. When new home sales tank, it's an UNEXPECTED drop in new home sales. Nice try brutus, you must have been a scholar for ancient history.

brutus smith

AlterNet / By Steven Rosenfeld
comments_imageCOMMENTS: 79
In Violation of Federal Law, Ohio's 2004 Presidential Election Records Are Destroyed or Missing
In 56 of Ohio's 88 counties, ballots and election records from 2004 have been "accidentally" destroyed, despite a federal order to preserve them -- it was crucial evidence which would have revealed whether the election was stolen.

brutus smith

Republican IT consultant subpoenaed in case alleging tampering with 2004 election
Larisa Alexandrovna and Muriel Kane
Published: Monday September 29, 2008

brutus smith

Ken Blackwell Outsources Ohio Election Results to GOP Internet Operatives, Again
by luaptifer rcs1
Tue Nov 07, 2006 at 11:53:14 AM EST

brutus smith

Blackwell Locks Out Recount Volunteers

Subject: Blackwell Locks Down Ohio Voting Records

Ohio Election Investigation Thwarted by Surprise Blackwell Order

Dayton, Ohio Friday December 10, 2004

On Friday December 10 two certified volunteers for the Ohio Recount team assigned to Greene County were in process recording voting information from minority precincts in Greene County, and were stopped mid-count by a surprise order from Secretary of State Blackwell’s office. The Director Board of Elections stated that “all voter records for the state of Ohio were “locked-down,” and now they are not considered public records.”

brutus smith

Was the 2004 Election Stolen?
Republicans prevented more than 350,000 voters in Ohio from casting ballots or having their votes counted - enough to have put John Kerry in the White House


brutus smith

Voting Machine Controversy
by Julie Carr Smyth

COLUMBUS - The head of a company vying to sell voting machines in Ohio told Republicans in a recent fund-raising letter that he is "committed to helping Ohio deliver its electoral votes to the president next year."

The Aug. 14 letter from Walden O'Dell, chief executive of Diebold Inc. - who has become active in the re-election effort of President Bush - prompted Democrats this week to question the propriety of allowing O'Dell's company to calculate votes in the 2004 presidential election.

O'Dell attended a strategy pow-wow with wealthy Bush benefactors - known as Rangers and Pioneers - at the president's Crawford, Texas, ranch earlier this month. The next week, he penned invitations to a $1,000-a-plate fund-raiser to benefit the Ohio Republican Party's federal campaign fund - partially benefiting Bush - at his mansion in the Columbus suburb of Upper Arlington.

The letter went out the day before Ohio Secretary of State Ken Blackwell, also a Republican, was set to qualify Diebold as one of three firms eligible to sell upgraded electronic voting machines to Ohio counties in time for the 2004 election.

Blackwell's announcement is still in limbo because of a court challenge over the fairness of the selection process by a disqualified bidder, Sequoia Voting Systems.

In his invitation letter, O'Dell asked guests to consider donating or raising up to $10,000 each for the federal account that the state GOP will use to help Bush and other federal candidates - money that legislative Democratic leaders charged could come back to benefit Blackwell.

They urged Blackwell to remove Diebold from the field of voting-machine companies eligible to sell to Ohio counties.

This is the second such request in as many months. State Sen. Jeff Jacobson, a Dayton-area Republican, asked Blackwell in July to disqualify Diebold after security concerns arose over its equipment.

"Ordinary Ohioans may infer that Blackwell's office is looking past Diebold's security issues because its CEO is seeking $10,000 donations for Blackwell's party - donations that could be made with statewide elected officials right there in the same room," said Senate Democratic Leader Greg DiDonato.

Diebold spokeswoman Michelle Griggy said O'Dell - who was unavailable to comment personally - has held fund-raisers in his home for many causes, including the Columbus Zoo, Op era Columbus, Catholic Social Services and Ohio State University.

Ohio GOP spokesman Jason Mauk said the party approached O'Dell about hosting the event at his home, the historic Cotswold Manor, and not the other way around. Mauk said that under federal campaign finance rules, the party cannot use any money from its federal account for state- level candidates.

"To think that Diebold is somehow tainted because they have a couple folks on their board who support the president is just unfair," Mauk said.

Griggy said in an e-mail statement that Diebold could not comment on the political contributions of individual company employees.

Blackwell said Diebold is not the only company with political connections - noting that lobbyists for voting-machine makers read like a who's who of Columbus' powerful and politically connected.

"Let me put it to you this way: If there was one person uniquely involved in the political process, that might be troubling," he said. "But there's no one that hasn't used every legitimate avenue and bit of leverage that they could legally use to get their product looked at. Believe me, if there is a political lever to be pulled, all of them have pulled it."

Blackwell said he stands by the process used for selecting voting machine vendors as fair, thorough and impartial.

As of yesterday, however, that determination lay with Ohio Court of Claims Judge Fred Shoemaker.

He heard closing arguments yesterday over whether Sequoia was unfairly eliminated by Blackwell midway through the final phase of negotiations.

Shoemaker extended a temporary restraining order in the case for 14 days, but said he hopes to issue his opinion sooner than that.

© 2003 The Plain Dealer

brutus smith

John Kenneth Blackwell (born February 28, 1948) is a former secretary of state of the U.S. state of Ohio who made an unsuccessful bid as the Republican nominee for Governor of Ohio in the 2006 election. He was the first African-American to be the candidate for governor of a major party in Ohio. He is currently Vice Chairman of the Republican National Committee's Platform Committee and was a candidate for chairman of the RNC.[1]

Blackwell gained national prominence for his dual roles as Chief Elections Official of Ohio and honorary co-chair of the "Committee to re-elect George W. Bush" during the 2004 election. Allegations of conflict of interest and voter disenfranchisement led to the filing of at least sixteen related lawsuits naming Blackwell. Regarding voter disenfranchisement, a federal appellate court ruled, in agreement with Blackwell, that provisional ballots cast in the wrong polling location should not be counted in the election, but the court overturned his directive to poll workers that they refuse to issue provisional ballots unless satisfied as to the voter's residence. Blackwell was also named in a 2006 lawsuit related to his office's public disclosure of the Social Security numbers of Ohio residents.



Instead of the scapegoating, diversionary attempts, and other assorted rationalizing why don't you call Washington and demand justice for what is going on in our name at GM.

$3,000.00 an hour.

I shudder at how little regard for human life you actually have in practice. Here's your golden opportunity. Instead, just keep chanting you mantra:

"Wing-nuts, Wing-nuts


I'm sure the Acorn members sitting in the joint wish it was a rumor duufus Brutus.


Yeah, I worked for the United States of America for awhile, I'm sure that's a foreign country to you.

brutus smith

Drudge, Breithbarte= rumor central.

brutus smith

goofus, I alleged you work for a foreign country, 100 times, so I guess its true now right?

brutus smith

goofus, all I see are a bunch of allegations. I guess in your world if you add up 100 allegations somehow it turns into conviction?


The Complete Guide to ACORN Voter Fraud
They register dead people. But that's not all.

October 14, 2008 - by Jim Hoft And you thought 2000 was bad.

This year’s election is shaping up to be one of the most controversial in history. Just this week, a federal judge ordered Ohio’s top elections official to verify the identity of newly registered voters by matching them with other government documents. The very next day a 6th U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals set aside the federal judge’s order on verifying registrations.

Further igniting the voter fraud/voter registration debate was the news that a national community organizing group is being investigated in at least 14 states and several swing states for massive irregularities. This news would make headlines anyway, but what made it worse was that Barack Obama was a key player in this organization, the Association of Community Organizations for Reform Now, in the past. Obama trained its local leaders, represented the organization in court, and worked to funnel funds to the organization. The Obama campaign also donated $800,000 this year to an ACORN affiliate.

What is ACORN?

The Association of Community Organizations for Reform Now (ACORN) is a community-based organization that advocates for low and moderate income families founded in 1970 by Wade Rathke and Gary Delgado. Rathke, one of the most powerful hard-Left activists in America, is a former member of a radical 1960s group, the Students for a Democratic Society (SDS). The Weathermen terrorist group split off from the SDS in 1969. ACORN says its priorities include better housing and wages for the poor, more community development investment from banks and governments, and better public schools.

ACORN is also known for its voter registration efforts.

This year alone ACORN has registered 1,315,037 voters.

Although the organization prides itself for its registration efforts, it also has a long history of scandal. In the state of Missouri in 1986, 12 ACORN members were convicted of voter fraud. But that case was not an isolated incident in the state. In December 2004, in St. Louis, six volunteers pleaded guilty of dozens of election law violations for filling out registration cards with names of dead people and other bogus information. Authorities launched an earlier investigation after noticing that among the new voters was longtime St. Louis alderman Albert “Red” Villa, who died in 1990. The volunteers worked for “Operation Big Vote” — a branch of ACORN — in St. Louis.

On February 10, 2005, Nonaresa Montgomery, a paid worker who ran Operation Big Vote during the run-up to the 2001 mayoral primary, was found guilty of vote fraud. Montgomery hired about 30 workers to do fraudulent voter-registration canvassing. Instead of knocking on doors, the volunteers sat at a St. Louis fast food restaurant and wrote out names and information from an outdated voter list. About 1,500 fraudulent voter registration cards were turned in.

In October 2006, St. Louis election officials discovered at least 1,492 “potentially fraudulent” voter registration cards. They were all turned in by ACORN volunteers.

In November 2006, 20,000 to 35,000 questionable voter registration forms were turned in by ACORN officials in Missouri. Most all of these were from St. Louis and Kansas City areas, where ACORN purportedly sought to help empower the “disenfranchised” minorities living there. But the ACORN workers weren’t just told to register new voters. The workers admitted on camera that they were coached to tell registrants to vote for Democrat Claire McCaskill.

In 2007, in Kansas City, Missouri, four ACORN employees were indicted for fraud. In April of this year eight ACORN employees in St. Louis city and county pleaded guilty to federal election fraud for submitting bogus voter registrations.

And, that was just Missouri.

This year there have been several accusations of fraud against ACORN. Over a dozen states are investigating the organization already. Here is a complete list of the ongoing investigations:

North Carolina — State Board of Elections officials have found at least 100 voter registration forms with the same names over and over again. The forms were turned in by ACORN. Officials sent about 30 applications to the state Board of Elections for possible fraud investigation.

Ohio — The New York Post reported that a Cleveland man said he was given cash and cigarettes by aggressive ACORN activists in exchange for registering an astonishing 72 times. The complaints have sparked an investigation by election officials into the organization, whose political wing has supported Barack Obama. Witnesses have already been subpoenaed to testify against the organization.

Nevada — Authorities raided the headquarters of the Association of Community Organizations for Reform Now on Tuesday October 7, 2008, after a month-long investigation. The fraudulent voter registrations included the Dallas Cowboys starting line-up.

Indiana — More than 2,000 voter registration forms filed in northern Indiana’s Lake County filled out by ACORN employees turned out to be bogus. Officials also stopped processing a stack of about 5,000 applications delivered just before the October 6 registration deadline after the first 2,100 turned out to be phony.

Connecticut — Officials are looking into a complaint alleging ACORN submitted fraudulent voter registration cards in Bridgeport. In one instance, an official said a card was filled out for a 7-year-old girl, whose age was listed as 27. 8,000 cards were submitted in Bridgeport.

Missouri — The Kansas City election board is reporting 100 duplicate applications and 280 with fake information. Acorn officials agreed that at least 4% of their registrations were bogus. Governor Matt Blunt condemned the attempts by ACORN to commit voter fraud.

Pennsylvania — Officials are investigating suspicious or incomplete registration forms submitted by ACORN. 252,595 voter registrations were submitted in Philadelphia. Remarkably, 57,435 were rejected — most of them submitted by ACORN.

Wisconsin — In Milwaukee ACORN improperly used felons as registration workers. Additionally, its workers are among 49 cases of bad registrations sent to authorities for possible charges, as first reported by the Journal Sentinel.

Florida — The Pinellas County Elections supervisor says his office has received around 35 voter registrations that appear to be bogus. There is also a question of 30,000 felons who are registered illegally to vote. Their connections with ACORN are not yet clear.

Texas — Of the 30,000 registration cards ACORN turned in, Harris County tax assessor Paul Bettencourt says just more than 20,000 are valid. And just look at some of the places ACORN was finding those voters. A church just next door is the address for around 150 people. More than 250 people claim a homeless outreach center as their home address. Some listed a county mental health facility as their home and one person even wrote down the Harris County jail at the sheriff’s office.

Michigan — ACORN in Detroit is being investigated after several municipal clerks reported fraudulent and duplicate voter registration applications coming through. The clerk interviewed said the fraud appears to be widespread.

New Mexico – The Bernalillo County clerk has notified prosecutors that some 1,100 fraudulent voter registration cards were turned in by ACORN.

That’s not all. So far this year at least 14 states have started investigations against ACORN. Talk about a culture of corruption. It is so bad that Representatives of Congress have asked for the Justice Department to investigate, and GOP presidential candidate John McCain is bringing it up in his stump speeches. The Obama camp is stealthily altering its “Fight the Smears” website to distance themselves from the organization — quite a challenge considering how close their candidate’s association has been with the group.

The liberal vs. conservative, voter fraud vs. voter intimidation debate will no doubt continue after this election. But this year, with the assistance of scandal-plagued ACORN, it appears that — so far — the voter fraud side is winning.

Jim Hoft runs the blog Gateway Pundit, following freedom movements from inside Zimbabwe to the streets of Tehran


Like I have said before, the videotapes of the Acorn offices have nothing to do with the Acorn members already in Jail for voter fraud. Eric Holder has successfully blocked other investigations into Acorn and SEIU from a justice department investigation. The Acorn scandal goes way beyond the videotapes, just ask Ohio Secretary of State Jennifer Brunner.


ACORN claimed that the videos were heavily edited and dubbed. Considering O’Keefe’s latest transgression to “get a story”, this puts his credibility and the credibility of his ACORN “investigation” into question. I stand by my opinion that congress had a knee jerk reaction to a media blitz.

I think most historians (non libertarian that is) would agree that the articles of confederation were a weak and temporary measure to get us by during the revolution and to some extent after. It needed to be replaced and was. I obviously don’t need to give you a history lesson about the concessions that were made in drafting the constitution. It’s not perfect, but a vast improvement over the Articles.

Man of the Republic

Doesn't it seem kind of hypocritical for Brutus to denounce a movement like the Tea Party, and to criticize all those who would support it, and yet support the similar liberal groups that he says exist?


Dr. Omar Al-Talib, sociology professor and former Libertarian Party of Ohio member, is no longer teaching at Ashland University (I heard he was doing some very unlibertarian work for Uncle Sam in his native Iraq), so as a history teacher and Libertarian myself I'll see if I can fill in some gaps in your history of Madison #10.

In the "Coup d'etat Convention at Philadelphia" in 1787, Hamiltonian proponents of a strong central government, who had lamented the establishment of the confederacy since the publication of Gibbon's "Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire in 1776, took the opportunity to overthrow the Articles rather than amend them (the meeting was called for "the sole and express purpose of revising the Articles of Confederation") and replace them with a Roman-style Constitution. To camouflage their actions and intentions to secure a neo-Roman government as their tool to usurp the peoples' liberties in order to privilege themselves, they then stole the term "Federalist" and applied it to their series of Orwellian double-speak propaganda dubbed "The Federalist Papers". The true federalists who stood for the Principles of 1776 and the Articles of Confederation, were given the misnomer "Anti-Federalists". The key players in the anti-federalist "Federalist" movement were three young opportunists: James Madison, Alexander Hamilton, and Fisher Ames.

Genuine federalists (who received the misnomer "Anti-Federalists" thanks to the Hamiltonians) voiced many penetrating insights into the misuse of governmental power that is inevitable under the U.S. Constitution, which was generated by the so-called Anti-Federalists who were nothing but in favor of federalism and opposed to a strong central government.

Consider George Mason's prophetic criticisms made in objection to ratification to the newly proposed Constitution:

"No Bill of Rights; only a shadow of representation; the Senate a powerful and dangerous threat to the peoples' liberties; the Federal judiciary will destroy those of several states; lack of a constitutional council for the President; criticism of the President's power to pardon; and of the Presidential-Senatorial power to make treaties; a two-thirds majority for the exercise of the commerce power should have been required; critcism of the necessary and proper clause; criticism of some of the restrictions imposed on the states; the government will begin as a moderate aristocracy, and probably develop into either a monarchy or a corrupt, oppressive aristocracy."

The so-called Anti-Federalists fought against the creation of a strong central government as embodied in the Constitution. Men such as George Mason, Patrick Henry, Richard Henry Lee, and John Taylor opposed the ratification of the unArticles-of-Confederational Constitution, which did create a federal government with the powers to impose taxes at will and to create a standing army that would consume taxes and could be used to create a new tyranny. It also provided for a financial apparatus capable of dispensing privilege, thus creating a new aristocracy; and granted the office of the president such power that the office-holder could in effect become a monarch.

Although the so-called Anti-Federalists (who actually loved federalism but detested strong central government) lost the battle of Constitutional ratification to the Hamiltonians who usurped the label Federalists (although they actually loved strong central government especially of the Roman kind and detested federalism), the Anti-Federalists who loved federalism were successful in creating the Bill of Rights - which materialized from their attempts to undo the gains of the Hamiltonian Romanists and to protect the rights of the individual from the inevitable encroachment by the state.

Richard Bebb

duhast -

He claims to be an investigative reporter who felt like he needed to go in undercover to get straight answers. Do I support what he did, no. Does this mean that ACORN employees didn't promote underage prostitution, NO. So what is your point?? And I have read the affidavit where was wire-tapping mentioned.



Oh my bad, because dressing as telephone repairmen to gain access to a senator’s office is ALWAYS lawful, right? If this was a liberal film maker and a conservative senator, you’d be screaming bloody murder and accuse him of domestic terrorism.

You are correct; he was actually charged with entering federal property under false pretenses with the intent of committing a felony. What felony would you image that could be, hmmm?

In case you’d like to read the affidavit…

Richard Bebb

goofus -
I watched his CPAC speech as well as some of the interviews he has done on talk radio and I have always come away very impressed. Its a shame Crist preferred to jump on the Barry train, he will pay the price in Nov.

duhast -

O'keefe was NOT charged with wire-tapping its another lie that was created by the left wing media to attempt to discredit his efforts against ACORN.

As far as your knee jerk reaction claim, maybe it was because congress didnt want federal dollars going to a group that promotes under age prostitution.........


Why did they vote to cut funding to ACORN? Classic knee jerk reaction. It’s sad that congress can be so influenced by the media. You know the guy that “broke” that story on Fox has been arrested for illegally entering and wire tapping a congressperson’s office??

As for the filibuster: Should have been eliminated years ago. I don’t care which party is in charge. Dump it.


Richard, I've been to a few fundraisers here in Florida, I have met the man, and he is the real deal.

Richard Bebb

On a different topic there was an interesting link on Drudge today regarding the support of the filibuster by the dems who currently are trying to change the rules to ram healthcare down our throats......... truth hurts - I was against it before I was for it



We are in agreement on that as well, duhast.

Richard Bebb

goofus -

Didn't you know Marco Rubio is made up and has been ginned up by Fox News because there are no minorities in the republican party.......

Im not going to go over the details of the criminal front group ACORN again but will say this if they were unfairly attacked by the right and Fox then why did congress vote to cut off their funding at a time when the dems held the super majority ?????


While I agree that CEO’s pay is very outrageous, why do we have such an issue with it but are OK when a sports figure gets paid the same or more to toss a ball around for a few hours a day??


Tea parties are the devil, but take a peek at what passes muster at GM.


Sound liberal economics. Get after 'em lefties.

A thread full of diversion while this goes on. Thank heavens the government can see their way clear to pay this man a 'living wage' on our dime. I await the cries of outrage from both sides of the spectrum.

Have at it.


Have we all looked up cargo cult yet.


The Acorn story was not broken by Fox, it was hyped up by them. Once again, blatant partisan pot stirring on their part. Fair and balanced my #%$#@!

The tea parties were ginned up by Fox.


Brutus you nitwit the escapade has nothing to do with Acorn being out of money and the acorn people already in jail for voter fraud. Richard Bebb; you know that Duhast or doofus brutus never heard of Marco Rubio yet. I see where some leftists are already attacking him. The left always attack what they fear.

Richard Bebb

C'mon now duahst use my whole statement -

"I look forward to the support of the tea partiers in November to push true conservative republican candidates. Because I think we can all agree lower taxes and limited government have NOTHING TO DO WITH THE DEMOCRATIC PARTY"

I was just pointing out that the movement is more aligned with the republican party and you knew that. Yet again you attempt to discredit the movement by claiming that the tea parties that have sprung up were ginned up by Fox and that there is nothing but white racist people who attend. So again I welcome your arrogance and bias towards the movement and Ill see you in November.

brutus smith

goofus, once again you need to get updated on the phony Acorn thing, the little weasel and his gal pal fessed up. Of course when you only read right wingnut blogs, you miss the real news. Bwahahahaaaha.


I would think that someone with a great knowledge and sky high IQ would fathom what is meant by state run media. Any news item that would bring discredit to the annoited ones agenda is not aired. One only has to look to the Acorn scam. Two weeks after Fox news broke the story, the state run media chimed in. Fox news and the New York Times are the only news sources that covered the global warming hoaxes. Your elitism continues to shine. You have no confidence in the American people's ability to distinguish between good and bad. The liberal intelligencia like yourself have contempt for the American people and whom they decide to vote for. You being the liberal elite with your mensa membership should be the only voice as to who gets nominated. Americans can't be trusted to make the correct choice.


Right, so CBS,ABC,NBC,CNN,MSNBC are state run, but Fox is not?? Your logic never ceases to amaze me.

No, there is no requirement for a college degree. But the framers intentionally set different requirements for Senators and Representatives. If you read through federalist #63 as well as others, the reason for the Senate to have greater qualifications (age and residency) is stated. This was to get a more knowledgeable and qualified candidate. Representatives on the other hand were obviously intended to represent their constituents. But they were also expected to be knowledgeable of varying state laws and foreign affairs. It can be assumed that were looking for well rounded people that knew at least a little bit about what they were legislating.

So, it drives me insane to see candidates elected based on one hot button issue when they are complete idiots about every thing else. It would be like voting for a blithering idiot because he said he was anti-abortion. Know anybody like that?


Obama’s rules of engagement: Calling lawyers for permission to kill terroristsposted at 10:43 am on February 23, 2010 by Patterico
Share on Facebook | printer-friendly When we have the terrorists in our crosshairs, we are still calling the lawyers to ask permission to fire.
Quite literally.
An excellent Wall Street Journal article highlights the infuriating rules of engagement that we are operating under in Afghanistan:
When Capt. Zinni spotted the four men planting the booby trap on the afternoon of Feb. 17, the first thing he did was call his lawyer.
“Judge!” he yelled.
Capt. Matthew Andrew, judge advocate for 1st Battalion, 6th Marine Regiment, advises the battalion about when it is legal to order the airstrikes. He examined the figures on the video feed closely. “I think you got it,” Capt. Andrew said, giving the OK for the strike.
But, the story reports, Zinni (son of Anthony Zinni) ended up spotting kids nearby — so the strike was called off. The terrorists ended up getting away.
Is it just an accident that some kids were wandering near insurgents planting a booby trap? Almost certainly not:
Capt. Zinni had seen this scenario before in Marjah. Insurgents using women and children for cover as they moved weapons or crossed open spaces into fighting positions in buildings. In this case, the captain was certain that the children were acting—either by their own volition or under coercion—as shields for the men planting the bomb.
The way the Taliban see it, he thought, they’d win either way: The Americans might hold their fire and allow them to plant a bomb unmolested. Or the Americans might kill a few civilians, a propaganda victory for an insurgent force increasingly adept at using the media to spread its message.
Leftist critics will point to another Journal article that shows what might happen when the rules of engagement are not followed. In an airstrike far from Marjah, 27 civilians were killed. The attack appears to have been a mistake — an attack on a purely civilian target.
My view is that, like friendly fire casualties (which are shockingly commonplace, far more than most people realize), casualties like this are a tragic but unavoidable result of war. War is not clean and it is not perfect. But that doesn’t mean that we should hold our fire when children are being used as human shields, as apparently occurred in the initial example above. Those insurgents may have successfully set another bomb that might kill our soldiers elsewhere. We shouldn’t be putting soldiers’ lives at stake for the sake of a propaganda victory.
There are no easy answers. But I fear that our enemy’s lack of morality, coupled with Obama’s hyper-concern for the good opinion of Afghanis, may be costing us the blood of our young men in uniform.
If so, that is not acceptable.
We should change the rules of engagement, so that the next time we have some killers in our crosshairs, we kill them before they kill us.
Pull the trigger . . . and leave the lawyers out of it.


Finished the job? The left complain daily we were there in the first place oh grossly ignorant one. Since when is the fear of the Tea Party a strictly progressive fear.


Excuse me, I'm still trying to find where it is required to have a college degree to become a representative. Heck, Obama has one and he is a flaming idiot, our first Cargo Cult president.

brutus smith

If Bush would have finished the job in Afghanistan instead of lying about Iraq, we wouldn't have casualties in Afghanistan. To think Carville and Clinton are major players with Progressive Democrats is ignorant. But look who we are talking with.


Gee, what college has an undergraduate program for aspiring representatives. Do you think before you right, a representative has to go to school to become a congressman? I really thought this country was built on the backs of the working man. Your elitism is showing. I can also give you a thousand websites that refute yours, point being? I'm glad you finally realized that George Bush was a brain surgeon. Sacrifice must be the result of fact, not fiction.


Look for these headlines on the state run media [CBS,ABC,NBC,CNN,MSNBC] tonight. 1/4 of mortgages in US are upside down, new home sales lowest on record,GM is paying ex CEO 3,000 dollars an hour to consult,gas prices are approaching 3 dollars per gallon, Obama wants 1 billion to build a new embassy in London,and 1/3 of the casualties in the 8 year afghanistan war have come since Obama's ordered escalation.


BTW Your lame attempt at discrediting my source does not dispute the facts I have posted. I simply picked the first one I saw as an example. Thousands more where that came from. Are you saying Fox news had no part in promoting the tea party movement with blatant political bias?


Goofus, please explain to me which outlets are “State Run”. Or is that only the sources you don’t like? Do you even know what that means?

Also, please stop with the average Joe and political poll garbage. If I were having brain surgery, I wouldn’t take a poll on how to do it or find an average Joe to do the surgery, would I? No. I’d hire a professional that went to school to be a brain surgeon. Our elected officials are supposed to be brain surgeons, not plumbers.

If a company in Sandusky is pumping cyanide into lake, would you be opposed to stopping them because it might cost jobs? Haven’t you ever heard “sacrifice the few to save the many”?


It's been said we have taxation with representation, yeah right. The latest Rasmussen Poll stated that only 21% of Americans believe the democratic controlled government has the consent of the governed. 71% of Americans believe government is doing a poor job with 9% approving congress. The disconnect is obvious. Ask a coal miner in W.Va. Ohio, or Virginia who voted democratic who know sees an administration bent on destroying their jobs. The left has been so long the party of entitlements, they have lost sight of the hard working industrious citizens in this country. When an average Joe's income is cut by some means, he has no choice but to tighten his belt and cut his budget. He now is represented by an administration that continues to spend what they don't have, and openly laugh at the average Joe. Ordinary people can't print money when they run low. Now the big agenda by the left is to say that American's are too dumb to understand the nuances of the Obama agenda. Time, Newsweek, and the New York Times all have editorials to the same. The tea party is a natural occurence to the average american's frustration. Those on the left that only get their news from the state run media have no idea of the disconnect. The average Joe knows global warming is a hoax and it ranks the lowest of any governmental concern even though the state run media has not announced one of the fallacies coming from the IPCC. The papers in Europe run daily features on the global warming fraud, but yet Obama continues cap and trade. With the advent of the internet, people are no longer relying on the daily pablum of the state run media. We, the people, have awoke. If the tea partys are such a non entity why is Bill Clinton and James Carville uniting to smear it. To duhast: oh please,media matters is as much as a reputable news source as WorldNetDaily.com and NewsBuster.org.

brutus smith

The Liberal groups were there. That's why we elected Barack Obama. Hope and Change are a lot better than Dope and Cheney.

Man of the Republic

I think it is important to realize that in the teaparty movement there is a general sense that Americans have been forgotten by politicians. Republicans, as well as Democrats, have lost there way. From what I have seen of the Tea Party, though limited, it seems that they are concerned with the direction the country is headed. Yes many come off as being mad, raging, and slightly off their rocker. But I think that a majority of the people that would associate themselves with the movement are productive citizens who are concerned for their country.

The point was made about where were they the last 8 years? Well my question is where were the liberal groups the last 8 years? The point still remains that if people don't like the way the government is run then they have a right to voice their concerns. The majority of problems that the Tea Party seems to be addressing have only gotten worse in the past year. But thats just my point of view.


Rallying several hundred angry people does not legitimize a movement. You would also have to be pretty daft and blind not to see the overwhelming evidence that Fox news started this monster. It started with a small protest which Fox devoted massive amounts of air time to promote. You have no right to claim media bias when Fox is the worst perpetrator of them all. This fact is not made up. The evidence is plan to see. I am however amused my your attempt to paint the movement as a poor victim of the evil liberal media.

I note your comment:
“I look forward to the support of the tea partiers in November to push true conservative republican candidates. “

That just helps to prove my point. Why didn’t you leave out the word “republican”? The tea party movement is supposed to be non-partisan right? But it’s not. It’s just a place for radical white republicans to pack town halls and cause disturbances.

Here’s one of many sources…

Richard Bebb

Copy and Paste Smith -

"That's why we rallied around Barack Obama, because he's not a Washington insider"

Once again you look like a fool and make no sense. How exactly is he not a Washington insider, he is the same Obama who served in congress right??????

Richard Bebb

duhast -

I am not a "birther", Barry is unfortunately our legal president.

And again you try to demean and delegitimize the tea party movement by saying that the thousands who show up for the rallies are ginned up by Fox News. I welcome and encourage you and your ilk to continue this behavior.

That being said I do support some of the key ideas of the tea party movement, although I consider myself conservative. I agree with limited government and lower taxes, two of the major aspects of the tea party movement. I believe there is a movement in this country, namely the tea parties, that are fed up with the reckless washington spending while they suffer. And yes this was started under Bush but has been tripled under Barry.

I look forward to the support of the tea partiers in November to push true conservative republican candidates. Because I think we can all agree lower taxes and limited government have nothing to do with the democratic party.


Alex, you are more than welcome to claim EZOB in your tea party. Maybe you can offer crumpets.

BTW, tea parties protested taxation without representation, not taxation WITH representation. You should have been more original. Maybe the pork belly party or the Waste Watchers party, or the Gun toting raving lunatic party. Whatever floats your boat.


Where have we been the past 8 years? Who's my illustrious leader? I'm my own leader. 8 years? This guy spent more in 8 months than Bush did in 8 years. The last years of Bush, we had a Democratic House and Senate. This is what I was waiting, wanting, and voting for. Man was I wrong, They always say, careful what you wish for, you just might get it. I don't need any of the News channels to interpret O'Bama's many promises. If a lot of you attended the Public school system, please opt for the Home School Programs. Your educations just don't hack-it. Were any of you in any of these Politician's math classes? Many can readily operate spell-check but on common sense issues, as usual, this area is far below National Levels. If you are still drinking the coolaide, try the sweeteners. They're sweeter and not as fattening, I'm told.

I'm male and don't understand contractions either but my wife says they're very painful. I,m always confused' when do you put the commas on top and when do they go on the bottom. It,s very important because many people are having a hard time reading posts when they are not used properly. My home schooling started soon after I was born. A couple things I learned early in life, try to avoid correcting a person when not necessary and respect other peoples opinions when they are diffwerent than yours. I DO RESPECT YOUR OPINIONS! That's our rights. Consider that most of us are not correct 100% of the time. When I've been around people who believe they are totally correct, than I'm going to act the same way.

brutus smith

If these so called Tea Partiers would have joined us when these things they are angry about were actually happening, the 8 years of GWB, maybe things would be different. That's why we rallied around Barack Obama, because he's not a Washington insider. He's trying to change the way things work, but to think all of our troubles began Jan. 20th, 2009 is ludicrous.


EZOB, Who is this illustrious leader you’ve found?


On this particular blog, you’ve been relatively mild. But on past posts you’ve sounded a little off your rocker. Aren’t you’re a birther too? But let’s use EZOB’s post below as a case in point. EZOB is apparently only interested in being angry now. He/She may also note that we didn’t like the constitution and officially changed it (amended) 27 times! And nobody had to die.
Now, you cite media bias. I find this amusing because you support a movement created in a large part by the media biased Fox news. And to cite poor little MSNBC which you claim has no ratings and no power is also laughable. Please stop confusing news with entertainment on a news channel.
I understand what Brutus is saying. Why did this tea party magically spring up after Obama was elected? Bush and congress had much worse spending habits. Parts of the patriot act are being challenged on their constitutionality today in the supreme court. Where were you then?
Alex cites these altruistic views that the tea party is supposed to hold, but I find it pretty coincidental that they show up now. They were promoted and trumped up by Fox news. There are not as much a party as an anti Obama angry mob. Maybe they’ve grown, who knows?
So, which tea party do you support?? The “Tea party Patriots”, “Tea Party Express”, “Tea Party Nation”, or other numerous groups that have sprung up?


Where was I???? I was waiting for Somebody with some B%lls to stand up and shout or lead. I was waiting for Somebody who I thoght could lead. I guess I was wrong in not giving myself enough credit but now I am involved. I am an "Oath Keeper" and a 3 percenter. I took my oath in 1969 and I'll die with it, need be. Heck, I've already lived 40 years longer than I expected. For those of you who don't know what a 3 percenter is, I'll explain. It represents the percentage of the Colonist who joined Washington to fight the British during the American Revolution. Just sit back and be one of the 97%. I guess there is nothing wrong with this, Washinton and Columbus are full of them but don't tell me what to believe. If you don't like our constitution maybe you could find a country that has one you would like to support. This one here "United States' Constitution" will only be changed over my dead body.

Richard Bebb

Duhast -

"In his attempt to defend the tea party movement, he stereotypes it."

I was pointing out the lefts attempt to discredit the movement not sure how I stereotyped it.

It was Nancy Pelosi who called the tea partiers Nazi's


It was the left wing mainstream media who calls tea party participants racist

1. Jeanene Garofalo on MSNBC

2. Keith Olber-loser on MSNBC

3. And my personal favorite the creative editing of MSNBC who label the black man with a gun a "gun toting racist"



So duhast how exactly am I the one who is stereotyping the tea party movement ??????


I'll confess to being exposed to a live Tea Party only once gathering by accident. It took place in Lima and I happened to be downtown on a lark to try a recommended local sub shop. It didn't seem filled with radicals to me. I found a portion of it on YouTube so judge for yourself:


Tom Ahl is a Lima and Findlay area car dealer.

If we judge the Tea Party by what media outlets decide to show us we can often get a slanted view. I can see why TV wants the radicals, it makes for livelier TV. House that don't burn down are usually not news.


I’ll respond since I believe this article was a direct response to my comment about Factions…

It’s not the message of your faction as much as the presentation. The tea parties do a good enough job painting themselves as crazies, the democrats don’t need to do it for them. As for scared, Oh yea! When a bunch of maniacs show up to a rally with guns and pictures of the president with a Hitler moustache, then it’s pretty scary. Now, if all of the tea partiers were as articulate as Alex, then there wouldn’t be a problem would there? But as it stands, they can’t even agree amongst themselves as to what they stand for other than simply being angry.

Take Richard Bebb for example. While It amuses me to debate with him, I can take him about as serious as a Loony Toons cartoon character. In his attempt to defend the tea party movement, he stereotypes it. The only thing the tea party movement is doing is picking off the more radical wing of the Republican Party thus reducing their power further.


Wow, three consecutive posts before anyone else weighed in. This kid sure gets under Bluto's skin. I don't agree with everything the kid writes, but at least he HAS opinions. A lot of people his age are totally self-absorbed, and politically apathetic.

If nothing else, young Alex does a good job of counterbalancing ol' Rufus. He writes in plain English too.


Liberals are trying to discredit the Tea Party movement and/or minimize their efforts because they are scared to death of them. Conversely, if the Tea Party does not ramp up their pressure on the GOP they will have failed their mission and the overall good of the country.

It still astounds me that the filter on this site allows for the use of an overtly sexual reference when some refer to this movement.

Richard Bebb

C'mon now Copy and Paste Smith, you better cite your sources....hahaha we all knew you were not that clever.....


The tea party movement is a real political force regardless of the fact that the left continues to label them as nazi's, brownshirts, and racists every chance they get. Its the old dem mantra, if you cant defeat the idea/movement on principal then you try to discredit and demean it. Quite pathetic really.

P.S. Its hard to label waterboarding as torture when terrorists are NOT recognized by the Geneva convention, but hey who needs facts when its more politically expedient to tell lies.


Good Luck Alex, the democratic party is full of nitwits like Brutus.


Alex, study hard at college! You will need it.

brutus smith


You didn't get mad when the Supreme Court stopped a legal recount and
appointed a President.

You didn't get mad when Cheney allowed Energy company officials to dictate
energy policy.

You didn't get mad when a covert CIA operative got outed.

You didn't get mad when we illegally invaded a country that posed no threat
to us.

You didn't get mad when we spent over 600 billion (and counting) on said
illegal war.

You didn't get mad when over 10 billion dollars just disappeared in Iraq.

You didn't get mad when you found out we were torturing people.

You didn't get mad when the government was illegally wiretapping Americans.

You didn't get mad when we didn't catch Bin Laden.

You didn't get mad when you saw the horrible conditions at Walter Reed.

You didn't get mad when we let a major US city drown.

You didn't get mad when we gave a 900 billion tax break to the rich.

You didn't get mad when the deficit hit the trillion dollar mark.

You finally got mad when the government decided that people in America
deserved the right to see a doctor if they are sick. Yes, illegal wars,
lies, corruption, torture, stealing your tax dollars to make the rich
richer, are all okay with you, but helping other Americans...

brutus smith

A question about the Tea Party people: Where were they?

When George W. Bush was magically transforming Clinton's surplus into a record-breaking deficit, where were they?

When D@ck Cheney was taking 200+ years of legal precedent and waterboarding it to fit his twisted vision of "liberty" {ugh!), where were they?

When John Ashcroft was shredding the Constitution, where were they?

When, for eight years, on every aspect of fiscal, economic, social, legal, foreign, defense, and intelligence policy they were being lied to by their own government, where were they???

It's virtually impossible to avoid the unfortunate conclusion that their suddenly-discovered outrage has little to do with taxes or "tyranny" (ugh!), but a whole lot to do with the color of Barack Obama's skin.

brutus smith

moderators have removed this comment because it contained racist or discriminatory remarks.