Workers ask for help

New Departure, Delphi retirees band together
Melissa Topey
Aug 17, 2013

The automotive bearings plant that's been a major employer in the region for more than 60 years will close if it can't get contracts for new work. 

That's the fear for a group of retired workers and current employees at Kyklos Bearing International (KBI), the factory at Perkins and Hayes avenues formerly known as New Departure and Delphi. 

The group hopes to spread a call to action, starting with a letter to local governments seeking support to save the plant. 

"We are asking you to please become involved in trying to keep this facility viable," states the letter, which was hand-delivered to Erie County commissioners, Sandusky city commission and the Perkins Township trustee board. "Should the plant close it would be devastating to the community. These are high-paying jobs that could not be replaced. The lost revenue and added social cost to the county should motivate us all to do everything possible to keep the plant a strong and growing business.”

The group wants local governments to approve resolutions asking General Motors and other potential customers to bring new business to the plant. The group also asked local officials to contact state and federal legislators for help in saving the plant. 

Sam Artino, a Huron city commissioner and a retiree from the plant when it was known as Delphi, said the letter was also delivered to the Sandusky and Perkins school boards. More letters will be sent to lawmakers, including U.S. Rep. Marcy Kaptur, U.S. Sen. Sherrod Brown and others.

“KBI is the same plight as every other plant. It is the plight of the middle class in manufacturing,” Artino said.

KBI has about 500 hourly and 80 salaried employees, far fewer than in the plant's heyday.

Employees have fought to save the plant for years, even offering at times to take pay cuts, said Chris SimsUAW shop chairman. 

That effort comes up against unfair marketing practices, he said. One competing bearings manufacturer offered to sell GM finished product at a cost lower than it is just to buy the raw materials needed to manufacture the bearings. 

"Even if everyone worked for free, the quote would be impossible to beat," Sims said.

That company is based overseas but has a plant in South Carolina, he said.

Pricing a product below what it would cost to produce is known as dumping, he said, and it is done to unfairly undermine a competitor. 

Artino said the letter already has gotten some attention. The group has been invited to the Aug. 26 Sandusky city commission meeting. 

“Keeping these jobs is a No. 1 priority for the county, the city, the township," Sandusky city commissioner Wes Poole said. "All governments should be working together doing whatever is possible.” 

 

Shuttered manufacturers

Norwalk

CVG Mayflower
Fanny Farmer
Van Dresser's

Sandusky

Philco Radio
Thakar Aluminum 
Sandusky Cabinets
Scott Paper
Barr Rubber
American Crayon
G&C Foundry
Sandusky Plastics
Bechtel McLaughlin
Universal Clay
Lyman Boats
Hinde & Dauche
Ferrell Cheek
Esmond Dairy

Port Clinton 

Standard Products

Huron
Pillsbury (ConAgra)

Bellevue
Armstrong Air Conditioning
Progress Plastics

Fremont
Kelsey Hayes
Epco Machines

 

Comments

allofus

This should give ALOT of hope to the Freudenberg employees who think they need a union! WAKE UP PEOPLE! THESE CUSTOMERS ARE AVOIDING UNION MANUFACTURERS AT ALL COST!

The Big Dog's back

Did you read the article? Why of course not. Bashing unions solve nothing.

pavedparadise

From a KBI employee

In the very recent, former Delphi employees at the KBI plant took a 40% wage reduction and work rules were relaxed to the point management can now do production work, etc.

When KBI took over the plant in 2008, the owners emphasized the point $50,000,000 a year off the top of plant profits were going back to the "Ivory Tower" executives at Delphi's Headquarters. Because of KBI's (HHI) low overhead, that dollar number would drop to $5,000,000 leaving $45,000,000 in profit. Blame the Union for potential closure when making a huge profit--hardly.

KBI filed legal action against GM in 2011 for purchasing bearings from Asia (same bearings we were contracted to make) and KBI won. Congrats to KBI for drawing a line in the sand. Generous Motors is now retaliating by not renewing future contracts and preventing KBI from seeking new business due to Generous Motors continued subsidization of employee wages (new work can not be sought until 2015 subsidization expiration).

The answer. The Local and International Union, as well as politicians, should be knocking down the door of Generous Motor's top executive's door demanding KBI can seek and engineer new business for the KBI plant beginning immediately.

The Hero Zone's picture
The Hero Zone

An unfortunate turn of events, but what can be done? I will certainly be all ears at the Commission meeting as this is going to be a learning opportunity and hopefully cause for a lot of critical thought. For a variety of reasons manufacturing isn't what it once was. It is a societal shift and one that requires a holistic approach.

Do you suspend laws requiring the lowest bidder for public contracts, or certain fiduciary responsibilities in a private setting?

Do you ban loss-leader products/bids?

How do you encourage manufacturing broadly or even locally? Especially in an auto industry where manufactured parts themselves are made to last longer with less maintenance. You can't order them to be lower quality (I presume) for negligence fears.

How can demand be increased? Or, how can the model of the factory change to accommodate a changed buying environment?

Who is strangling who and how do we untie the knot? Management/business practice? Government/regulations? Unions/negotiations? All three in some kind of rock-paper-scissors kind of way?

Can something else be manufactured on the site either by KBI or if they aren't sing all of their facility can they have a...how to put this...kind of like a manufacturing "flea market" or maybe a "manufacturing mall" is better where people can come onto the property which presumably meets all safety standards, etc. and make mini-companies within the structure?

The answer may very well be outside the box, too. I don't know how much a bearing costs vs. retails but let's say it's $1/each. Could they just stamp a "thank you" on a bearing and sell it to me so I can choose to support the cause? You know, kind of like a "Live Strong" wristband thingy?

What does our local community need? After all there are only so many cars on our roads and not all of them share the same kind of bearing needs. What else can they manufacture or fabricate? I proposed a fund raising idea to the city manager earlier this year to have the municipality make and sell items to enhance neighborhoods.

For instance, there are many old hitching posts throughout Sandusky and other areas. Could they manufacture somewhat uniform posts with some customization and sell them as a revenue generator for not just the business but the city? Maybe all the money goes into a sidewalk fund or the like? You could order yours with a few options such as name, material, and between a few designs. Heck, maybe even give an electric option with either/both a light or a charging station for cars (the cord would be like the lead horses used to be tied to out front). That would spur electrical work too and the streets would have a classy look with new sidewalks!

Hopefully some of this helps or at least gets other people's minds who are greater than mine going to support, poopoo, or modify what's out there. With over 76k people in Erie county alone presumably there are solutions that can be entertained.

The Hero Zone's picture
The Hero Zone

Additional thoughts: what about doing some kind of urban farming, space available? Hydroponics? Something supplemental. Or something with less longevity to be made. Museum? Trade school lab and/or branch? Really trying. What is clear though is that we as a community can't wait for a political handout nor for an Uncle Pennybags. We have to meet our own needs as best we can to produce for ourselves as much as we can.

Yellow Snow

Manufacturing facilities will always be full of residual chemicals used in production processes and the products itself. That becomes a liability for use other than manufacturing. This will most likely limit potential use. It's part of the reason these buildings sit empty, only to be demolished years later.

The Hero Zone's picture
The Hero Zone

This is true and I know that sting personally regarding former business hampering future. While not certain of all the details from what I understand "urban farming" uses techniques in a city or brownfield environment that still make safe food to eat. Hydroponics is a closed system and could be safer and easier to harvest at waist level. Maybe they can put up solar panels and wind turbines to be an electricity farm?

margaritaville88

Great thoughts Matt, I like the 'thinking mind' such as yours..well said

Stop It

I could care less about ANYTHING related to the U.A.W.

Webster

With the two tier pay of the UAW, why not move to a Right to Work State, wages the same as the new UAW scale without the high UAW dues and still employing Americans. Indiana and now Michigan which just became a Right to Work State not to mention most of the southeast U.S. with a better climate and lower cost of living. BMW has hired more than 7,000 in South Carolina along with additional related employment with related industries. The UAW leadership sold out the new workers to protect themselves and the hacks.

KURTje

Comment away..soon you too can be with more crime, & less services. Some of those organizations I know made a profit; but hey - it never is enough.

Contango

Re: "The group wants local governments to approve resolutions asking General Motors and other potential customers to bring new business to the plant."

A govt. resolution 'asking' for new business?

Reads like a David Copperfield approach.

How about proposing a tax free zone?

An outside-the-box idea:

http://www.freemansperspective.c...

The Big Dog's back

Did you read the article? The other company is "dumping" their parts here. The employees could work for nothing and still not be cheap enough.

2cents's picture
2cents

And during the U.S. Tsubaki strike I read right here in these forums, two of the strikers having a conversation about the strike while they both were shopping at Wal-Mart! Talk about a place that backs any US manufacturer, NOT! Too f-in stupid.

SamAdams

Business is, by its nature, competitive. If somebody else can provide a product of comparable quality but sell it for less, then I'm sorry, but you need to change YOUR business model not whine that you're losing bids!

That being said, it's not "competition" when a would-be competitor "dumps" super cheap products below cost just to take the business. I don't believe that government should have a role in much where business is concerned, but that's one instance where an investigation SHOULD be done, and action SHOULD be taken if the allegations prove true. I feel that way whether the company is U.S. based or not.

It would truly be a shame for the area to lose still more decent jobs. I'd point out, though, that the business model utilized by some of these UAW facilities is all about the money and benefits for union members and retirees above all else, and that any businessman KNOWS that's unsustainable after a certain level is reached!

Should the government step in if somebody is taking illegal steps to get more business? Yes. Should the government step in if greed on EITHER end of the scale is causing a company to fail? Nope, not unless the greed involves embezzlement or the like. I'm not blaming the UAW outright here because I don't know what or how the money is working behind the scenes right now. Let's just say that, if the UAW is mostly to blame, it wouldn't be the first time!

AnAmerican

Well said

Yellow Snow

Use SR search function and type in "KBI lands sale, a windfall for Erie County" it is from 2010.
A lot of interesting information in the article. It states Kyklos is a subsidiary of Hephaestus Holdings. If this plant closes, it has more to do with the fact it's owned by a holding company than the fact is is Unionized. That is what holdings companies do. They stick around long enough to drain maximum profits, and instead of investing in the business and people, they leave, they have no intention of long term. Three to five years, seven if you're lucky. They bleed a business. Being owned by a holding company is not good for anyone. They invest very little into a company, so this time it will be even more difficult to attract a new investor.
This is more like a rental unit.
If this plant closes, some workers will survive, others will become dependent on tax-payer handouts through no fault of their own.
If you're not a registered voter, do it now. Fall is nearly here already.

Contango

Re: "They bleed a business."

And they would want to destroy any possible re-sale value of an asset why? Makes no economic sense.

Warren Buffett's Berkshire Hathaway for one is a "holding co."

Yellow Snow

If I make XXXXX profit and lose XX on the sale of my business, yes. I went through this at a factory I worked at. They implemented programs to involve the workforce in how to save money for the company. Who better knows how to do a job efficiently? Then comes a program called 5S. That program is basically about good housekeeping, organizing, and getting rid of what is no longer used. Then you paint and pretty it up. Sounds lovely, doesn't it? And it is, the facility is eye-candy appealing to a prospective buyer. A freshly cleaned and painted facility. They took our cost-cutting idea and implement them at the Mexican and China facilities now.

Contango

Re: "They took our cost-cutting idea and implement them at the Mexican and China facilities now."

Reads like you had a job and were compensated during the process.

What is it that you think that the owners owe you?

Yellow Snow

We gave them the tools to be competitive, we took major concessions, including wage cuts, profits increased. Our engineers worked on cutting edge innovation of our product. The sales people did what they were directed to do, send our technology and innovation to Mexico and China, very little to the US. They used your and my tax money to move equipment to Mexico. This is all monies that should be spent here. My purchasing power went down, more money and taxes that belong to both you and me.
What did they owe me? Honesty.

Contango

Re: "This is all monies that should be spent here."

Good luck corralling the flow of capital.

Mfg. IS returning to the U.S. from places like China, however robots are replacing people.

---------------------

Re: "What did they owe me? Honesty."

And you would have put exactly the same amount of effort into the project?

Yellow Snow

You want to repo my car? OK, let me fill the gas tank first. Want to re-po my house, ok let me clean it for you first, want a divorce, OK, you should keep 80% of everything, I'll give you more if you'd like it more. Want a job that I've done for 35 years, yeah, I'll act like a floor mat for you.

The Big Dog's back

Good luck trying to get through to CONtangled.

grumpy

You OWNED your car, house and possessions of your marriage. What part of the business did you own?

Were you paid for your working there? Did you have a contract with the company where there said they would be there till you retired? Were you paid to paint and clean up the plant? Did the company have a contract with you that didn't allow you to leave or look for a different job?

You were allowed to look for a different job. The company was allowed to look for better conditions for them to have a plant elsewhere.

2cents's picture
2cents

Our fed could help by bringing the $$ back on shore. And on this chart I do not see China, why, communist.

http://www.project.org/images/gr...

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/06/0...

shucks

"Our fed could help by bringing the $$ back on shore".

.......NOW you want government intervention.

Rationally Speaking

After reading the article, I looked at some of the manufacturing plants and company holdings of major corporations. Why is it that the plants in Ohio are being consumed by other companies who operate plants in other states and then closed? Its happening to Ohio and Michigan. No wonder they call this the Rust Belt.

Are our states unfriendly to business? Ohio has the Commercial Activity Tax which was explained to me that it was a tax for the privilege of doing business in Ohio if ANY business or service makes more than $150,000/year. (The CAT is an annual privilege tax measured by gross receipts on business activities in this state. (http://www.tax.ohio.gov/commerci...)). Now the Patient Protection and Affordable Care Act (PPACA)(Obamacare) which is encouragement for employers to cut full time positions to part time positions. Where do they think all this money is coming from? Federal, state, and local taxes and fees come out our pockets. Each entity takes a penny here and there, and the common statement is that its only $XX per person or home or business. Is the government so in tune with spending and taxing that business can't afford succeed in this country?

Are our labor demands to high? Is our labor force focused on union jobs with high pay and benefits? It seems that in order to get into a factory around here, you have to know someone in the union.

Do we need to promote something other than factory jobs and tourism? Are our youth being trained for careers, job interviews, economics, etc.. Where are good paying jobs that don't require a college degree. Not everyone can afford to go to college, but can they attend some affordable technical training.

What is needed to keep this country a leader in the private and public sectors? Everyone needs to work together but how? The government doesn't listen to the people. They listen to minority factions and pass laws which requires more taxes and more regulations which increases their product/services costs. Every time a new regulation goes into effect, taxes inevitably increase. A penny here and a penny there adds up. Employers/businesses/manufacturers are in the business to make a profit for their owners/shareholders. Another penny. The unions are looking out for their membership. They get raises, which raises their employers costs, and puts a bigger disparity between their membership and the rest of the work forces. Another penny.

How many pennies before you go broke?

kal-el

Good for business usually means bad for workers. Why do you think Mexico and China are such attractive destinations for US businesses? Why do you think Texas is such an attractive destination for jobs and has one of the highest rates of min wage jobs and the lowest percentage of workers covered with medical insurance?

The CAT tax was a Republican idea that replaced personal tangible property tax in Ohio (which, despite the name, is a tax on business inventories). It was supposed to make Ohio more business-friendly. Unfortunately, your local schools relied on that tax revenue, and that's why you see schools on the ballot more often -- another shift of taxes t the shoulders of local residents, who, in turn, have fewer good-paying jobs.

Contango

Re: "Good for business usually means bad for workers."

And bad for business usually means NO jobs.

Unionization worked well for MI eh?

And public employee pension plans invest assets in foreign countries, hedge funds and private equity firms WHY?

The Big Dog's back

Ahhh yes, those darn regulations. Let's not have any regulations or laws, let's become Haiti.

grumpy

Ahhh yes let's exaggerate what was being said. That is how the left winguts try to state it, all or none. According to them there is nothing in between. That is the wingnut way of looking at what they don't like when it is brought up. Thanks for being an example.

The Big Dog's back

So what regulations should companies have?

grumpy

You want specifics? tell me what company and give me all the particulars on safety and practices of the company, what polution and controls they have, and anything else that is relevant and we can have a discussion.

I am betting you will not hold up your end and gather that information. It goes along with the wingnutters deflection and generalities you seem to spout. You want specifics, yet won't give out specifics. Try it once.

The Big Dog's back

You're the one beeching about regulations all the time, so the burden of proof is on you.

grumpy

Nope I am am reacting to your question with a request for specifics. Rationally Speaking mentioned regulations. You are now deflecting so you can not even have a serious discussion about the topic. You want to run and hide instead. I expected as much. You just want to mouth inanities.

The Big Dog's back

I expected you to weasel out of it. Put your cards on the table now or move on. Right now!

grumpy

What company and what is their record? C'mon troll do something other than mouth inanities on every post.

shucks

Remember these famous words, grumpy? :

"grumpy

Wed, 08/14/2013 - 1:21pm

I love it when they fall to name calling."

gene44870

Lets not dwell on the reasons and try and focus on how to save this plant , not only that but an tradition in sandusky as well as all of Erie County
Now that G.M has come back from there legal wows , maybe they will take the plant back over and live up to what they told the union way back when they were new departure . and that was that they would not sell the sandusky plant as long as it was profitable , and at one time is was , when it was owned and run by G.M .I f you all recall the ford plant was taken back over and then resold and now they are facing the same thing , CLOSING THE DOORS
We need good paying jobs in Erie County. And everyone needs to step up to the plant and do what is needed to save what jobs that are still here but are in trouble

You can point at this and that all you like , but its not going to do anything but close the plant and lose what jobs we have .
Contact your goverment bodies as well as G.M and get them to take the responsablity back of the plant where it should be .The ownership and controll of that plant had its ups and downs when G.M had controll of it , and it came back to life and showed profits and still can if if G.M takes it back. That in my opionon is the only way to save this plant.
From the city , county, state > and federal levels need to stop playing chicken with peoples lively hood Wheres President Obama now that we need to not only make jobs , but perserve the ones that we have and are in danger of losing .Obama bailed out G.M ,NOW HE NEEDS TO STEP UP TO THE PLATE . And work with G.M to take that plant back over and run it , Its a proven fact that a plant that is sold off is in trouble and selling it only adds to the problem , it does not solve the problem . When G.M was in trouble the tax dollars was there to help them out of there trouble , now its time to return the favor and take back what should have never been sold off to begin with .And If G.M and the Union would pull together they could come up with a plan of action not only to safe that plant but also make it profitable once again and have it here for many more Generations to come .
I have a strong opionon of this plant and have has many of my family threw the years that worked and spent a good chunk of there lives in that plant . I hope that we can do whatever it takes to save this plant as well as the Old Ford Plant

Yellow Snow

When is the last time Marcy Kaptur was involved in saving a factory from closing? We knew about a year before we were closed. Many of us called and wrote Marcy. None of us got a response, not even an acknowledgment or one of those stupid form letters.

2cents's picture
2cents

"When is the last time Marcy Kaptur was involved in saving a factory from closing?"

She would not even return my email or phone calls!

grumpy

You expect the elite to deal with the rabble? She has been in DC for 30 years. Why would she respond to peons? She is an elected politician in a "safe" district. She doesn't need you. You can't do anything for her. She is just another typical politician.

2cents's picture
2cents

Well I actually could talk to Rep. Paul Gillmor and he would return a letter. I was sad when they realigned the districts.

The Big Dog's back

He died fool.

2cents's picture
2cents

Yea Dah! Not before the districts were realigned and we lost him in Erie County silly man!

http://www.cnn.com/2007/POLITICS...

SamAdams

Congressman Gillmore answered letters, returned phone calls, and even made time for meetings with constituents. I know, because he did all of those things for ME! I, too, was sad when re-districting occurred, but Democrat or Republican, I figured I could at least put in my two cents and get some kind of acknowledgment if not agreement.

Turns out that I can't. Several letters remain unanswered after many, many months. Phone calls are handled by Marcy's minions who basically say nothing more than, "Okay. Thank you." And that's assuming they're having a good day. (I got into a VERY enteraining argument with one of those minions a few years ago which ended when he actually said that no, Representative Kaptur DOESN'T believe in free speech. Too bad I didn't have THAT on tape!)

As it happens, know who makes sure Congresswoman Kaptur is in a "safe" district? It's UNIONS. Yup. You reap what you sow, boys and girls...

jstus2001

To all the "Low Information" commenters and voters who want to believe everything the main stream media is shoveling at them.

In 1955 the top 4 employers in the US were:
1. General Motors
2. US Steel
3. GE
4. Chrysler
Today the top 4 US employers are:
1. Wal-Mart
2. Kelly Temps
3. McDonalds
4. Taco Bell

I am not necessarily a "fan" of the Unions however, the facts don't lie...politicians and the media does. WAKE UP and look around you.
Only the people can turn things around or choose to keep them on the same path as the government wants. And as long as you stick your head in the sand and listen to other "Low Information" people and politicians then...your path is doomed along with the path of your children grand children and mine

grumpy

Good post.

2cents's picture
2cents

I sat next to a Chinese guy on a plane headed to San Fran about 2001. He was so excited telling me how he had just moved so many millions $$ in GE production from Nela Park, in Cleveland to China. We were at the back of the plane and if it had a back door I wanted to pitch him out it! This shirt is not new kids, has been coming for a long time and some of us in business started seeing it in the 80's.

Yellow Snow

Better post.

Contango

Re: "some of us in business started seeing it in the 80's."

I equate the beginning of the loss of heavy industry in the U.S. with the closing of Youngstown Sheet & Tube, Campbell Works on Sept. 19, 1977.

5,000 workers were laid off.

I told my spouse: Here it comes!

Japanese competition was blamed.

Also, you can make a direct correlation to the loss of heavy mfg. in the U.S. to the creation of the EPA in 1970.

Lastly, we have become a nation of consumers.

Approx. 70% of U.S. GDP is based on somebody buying something.

We are a nation of SPENDERS!

China and others are nations of SAVERS.

Without capital formation (savers and investors) our country will eventually drown in an ocean of debt.

2cents's picture
2cents

"Japanese competition was blamed."

My dad was a sales engineer for Farrel Birmingham, the plants he called on would let the Japanese come in and photograph all their machinery and plant layouts not knowing what would happen. He then went to work for a Japanese owned company in Cleveland for double the salary, they sucked his brain out and let him go in two years. Now the Japanese people have a better standard of living and their mfg. cost rose and guess where it went, China, Hong Kong now off to Vietnam as well. Remember the Japanese recession? Everyone saved and they created an entire generation of people that did not spend, they still have the problem I believe.

As for the EPA, they did a great job and now need to be more supervisorial, their power now is to keep employed and drive the US out of business, somehow they need to spend more time working globally and promote other countries to be more environmentally conscious, after all we all breath and drink the same global environment!

Contango

Re: "Remember the Japanese recession? Everyone saved,"

The govt. restricted individual investments outside the country while giving savers a lousy rate of return.

---------------------

Went with my spouse to see "Elysium" yesterday.

Kind of a dumb movie (IMO), but the metaphor of the U.S. "Haves" and the developing world "Have Nots" could be made.

People who b*tch about the quality of life in the U.S. should go to some sh*thole country and live for a while.

2cents's picture
2cents

Well I'm off to a Syrian picnic in Cleveland. I will have a good incite what is happening over there by dinner time. Many of these people have brothers with boots on the ground. (Christian Syrian) : )

2cents's picture
2cents

Two things I want to share today:

This week employee of mine was complaining about people, her husband works at a local plant that is hiring. A guy see the sign out front, goes in and asks what does it pay, he is told it starts at $10.00 but you can move up fast if you are a good worker. The man says well I need to make $17.00 an hour to go back to work! Yea, he says that if he goes back to work he will lose the benefits he gets from the government for various things and he rattled them out to the guy.

Then yesterday I took a kid back to OSU and was driving back, I was on a not so nice street with boarded up homes and one with the porch ceiling basically laying half way down to the floor, various businesses were closed all around, this was near the fair grounds. Then on one corner at a closed gas station was this bright yellow and white tent set up with a guy and his nice car sitting there with a huge sign that said “FREE CELL PHONES” now go figure, I keep hearing about the free cell phone program abuse and how we all pay that $2.50 tax every month so our government can hand out free cell phones, but I did see it first hand and there was a line of people. WTF!

The Big Dog's back

What and where is your business.

2cents's picture
2cents

Manufacturing & the other of course would not make me a private poster, now if we all came forward with our names, addressees and other I too would share. Hell I am sure the NSA knows all this anyway LOL : )

Lets just say I am in the automotive components related business.

The Hero Zone's picture
The Hero Zone

Hey, some of us are forward with it! But that is said in fun, not calling you out. I'll tell you though, it is a whole new world when you aren't behind a moniker. It's always interesting, though, when people pull you aside while out and about going "Hey, are you so-and-so? I'm this-and-that on the forums. I totally dis/agree with X topic. Oh, did you know that y-poster is actually-or-believed-to-be Name?"

Hahaha! It's like a secret society and I'm certainly just as much a biddy about it as anyone else. Now I just need to invent the secret handshake...

SamAdams

The NSA may know, but the rest of us don't necessarily need any personally identifying information from you. Either a poster makes sense or he doesn't. Facts are easy enough to verify for those who are REALLY into double- and triple-checking.

Meanwhile, given the attitude of some on these boards, I can only imagine they'd boycott your business or bad mouth it if they disagreed with you on something, or make nasty comments to your family members, or...well, you get the idea.

I don't go by Sam Adams on the boards because I'm shy or because I won't express my opinion to you face-to-face. I do it because a) the Internet is filled with scary idiots, some of whom doubtless reside locally, and b) scary idiots can't tell the difference between MY viewpoint and the viewpoint my business, my friends, or my family might have.

The Hero Zone's picture
The Hero Zone

Sometimes I wonder what these forums would look like if there was a "like"/karma button for comments. But overall I think it is good they don't exist for the reason you stated... People will know quality posts when they read them. I believe that it also promotes better online community interactions. I know a few pages back I was rather scathing in sarcasm with Licorice, but I have also gone on to agree with other things s/he said in a genuine way.

That scariness is there still. Today I had some plants outside the store stolen and broken. Could it be someone who I offended taking revenge? Maybe. Was it dumb kids or a drunk? Probably. But you never know. Overall it has been positive. Even though we disagree, I seriously doubt that Big Dog would ever cross that line (to use an example, not picking on you BD in fact I hope it is a compliment!).

The "worst" case so far has been Licorice indicating that a plumber's house can actually have a leaky faucet but otherwise being civil. Fair's fair and it wasn't even a big deal.

The Big Dog's back

sam, how do you "factcheck" something when there are no particulars?

SamAdams

Facts, by definition, ARE particulars.

man4451

Ah ahaha LOOK the same type people ran and still running detroit is running sandusky, and the same type people running sandusky will turn Perkins into another Little Detroit. Problem is, they don't have a clue.

Pete

Another lead for our business development team. They're going to be busy out here.

deertracker

I think some of you are missing the real issue. Businesses like this one that close have a trickle down effect. People will lose income, home, cars and other stuff and the local economy will take a hit. Crime goes up, services go down. Eventually everyone will feel the pain.

2cents's picture
2cents

I totally agree, we just differ on how to get this country and it's people back to work, how to instill responsibility and morals in our society along with a good work ethic. This goes across all genders, races and socioeconomic peoples!

deertracker

I really don't see a big difference in most people's opinion on how to get this country back to work. However, responsibility and morals are defined differently by different people.

goofus

OMG a committed leftist has announced to the world he believes trickle down works!!!!

SamAdams

There's no such thing as a "trickle down" effect. Just ask a Reagan-bashing Democrat if you don't believe me!

grumpy

He will now come back and say you misunderstood how he means trickledown. In 5, 4, 3...

The Big Dog's back

Yep, both raygun's and companies trickle down works. The problem is they're both shitsky.

grumpy

shitsky is something you are an expert with, he gets his snout rubbed in it often.

The Big Dog's back

troll.

Yellow Snow

http://www.grants.gov/web/grants...
There's a whole lot of grant money out there, the money they confiscate and redistribute. Erie County needs to take a 2 year approach and really dig deeply to determine realistically the best fit for this funding before they go half-hazzardly into this. You'll need someone who is proven at applying for grants. Erie County can be more than just a tourist destination.

2cents's picture
2cents

You know what is funny, my uncle formed a company and his livelihood was these grants. He produced nothing, researched everything but in the end it was just a waste of tax payers $$. He despised Ronald Regan because he shut down a lot of this waste and had o get a real job!

Contango

Re: "formed a company and his livelihood was these grants."

Central economic planning properly belongs on the trash heap of History.

The pointy heads in DC and elsewhere think that they're smarter than the pointy heads in the old Soviet Union - they ain't.

As is said: Capitalism without failure is like Christianity without Hell.

The Big Dog's back

Yep, unregulated Capitalism has worked so well the past 30 + years hasn't it. Yeah, right.

Contango

Re: "unregulated Capitalism"

Only in your ignorant thinking.

That's why there's a ton of alphabet soup agencies and departments in DC.

Have a nice day putz.

2cents's picture
2cents

Re: "formed a company and his livelihood was these grants."

It took place during the Carter administration :0

The Big Dog's back

So.

deertracker

Who "confiscates" it and to whom does it get "redistributed"?

bigrmachine

Maybe it is time for the workers to feel the crack of the economy whip and get a taste of what it is to live in a society where competition does not give a crap about your union and what they can do for you.

You wanna keep it alive and make it happen ,first thing to do is to tear the union badge off the sign out front, and secondly stop paying dues to a union that cannot give you any solace in your future other than maybe a small pension.

Reality sucks at times ...so live with it like all the others that have lost their jobs in all those companies listed in this article.

Big R

pavedparadise

From a KBI employee

In the very recent, former Delphi employees at the KBI plant took a 40% wage reduction and work rules were relaxed to the point management can now do production work, etc.

When KBI took over the plant in 2008, the owners emphasized the point $50,000,000 a year off the top of plant profits were going back to the "Ivory Tower" executives at Delphi's Headquarters. Because of KBI's (HHI) low overhead, that dollar number would drop to $5,000,000 leaving $45,000,000 in profit. Blame the Union for potential closure when making a huge profit--hardly.

KBI filed legal action against GM in 2011 for purchasing bearings from Asia (same bearings we were contracted to make) and KBI won. Congrats to KBI for drawing a line in the sand. Generous Motors is now retaliating by not renewing future contracts and preventing KBI from seeking new business due to Generous Motors continued subsidization of employee wages (new work can not be sought until 2015 subsidization expiration).

The answer. The Local and International Union, as well as politicians, should be knocking down the door of Generous Motor's top executive's door demanding KBI can seek and engineer new business for the KBI plant beginning immediately.

Yellow Snow

Thanks for the insight.

Contango

Re: "GM in 2011 for purchasing bearings from Asia,"

Nice to know that the still partially U.S. govt. and UAW owned GM has it's country's best interests at heart huh?

"As of June 5, the government’s share was 13.7 percent, according to data compiled by Bloomberg."

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/20...

deertracker

13.7% doesn't control anything!

kal-el

If it was .0005% the right-wingers would say it was govt-controlled!

Country's best interest at heart? Look at all of the comments in here that would rather see KBI go under because it's a union shop. When I was a kid growing up in Perkins, most of my friends' parents had good, secure, union jobs, and most of us went to college because of it.

What, now, for the current generation? Wait staff at Cedar Point?

Those of you who claim to hate socialism are setting this country up just for that. In 25 years, my generation is going to retire with only social security. You will reply "well, they should have saved." That is not possible for many Americans and most corporations no longer pay pensions. The benefits the baby boom generation all enjoyed are lost on the current generation, mostly due to corporate greed.

What are we going to do when Gen-X retires and most of us are poor? That's right: socialism. The very thing you righties fear the most.

Contango

Re: "That's right: socialism."

The guns will be broken out LONG before that.

As was said in the old Soviet Eastern Europe:

Socialism makes everyone equal - equally poor.

Enjoy your planned Marxian dystopia.

The Big Dog's back

You're such a hypocrite. Actually a troll. You and your alter ego grumpy.

shucks

They are conjoined twins.

grumpy

"Look at all of the comments in here that would rather see KBI go under because it's a union shop."

I love exaggerations!!!

I saw many posts predicting KBI would go under since it is becoming a union shop. Didn't see all those saying they would RATHER see KBI go under because it is a "union shop". Care to point out which ones they were or quote them in full? But then what would be the point of exaggerating?

The Big Dog's back

Learn how to read and do your own research.

grumpy

Piddle puppy, I have already read the comments here, some several times, there are no comment that want KBI to go under, many that predict them to do so, they are NOT the same thing. But then you just want to mouth inanities, troll.

The Big Dog's back

troll.

Contango

Re: "13.7%"

That's current.

In June, 2011, the U.S. Treasury reduced its ownership from 61% to 33%.

Pop quiz: OK, how much of GM does the UAW own?

The Big Dog's back

So what.

grumpy

Mouthing more inanities.

shucks

Hey grump !

Get help!

The Big Dog's back

grumps is a troll.

JudgeMeNot

United Auto Workers Retiree Medical Benefits Trust owns about 10% of guberment motors. I cant wait for GM to die.

shucks

I'm sure they hope the same for you.

VOTENO

NO in NOvember!

8ballinthesidepocket

You get what you voted for and Odumba is more concerned with appologizing to the world and die to his total lack of business experience this is what you end up with!

shucks

Another ignorant comment

SamAdams

Okay, I'll bite: Please advise what business experience Obama has. Either the previous comment was ignorant, or you are. And since you won't advise of any business experience held by our illustrious President (because you can't — he HAS none!), I'm going to go with the latter...

shucks

"You get what you voted for and Odumba is more concerned with appologizing to the world and die."
............................The above is my main contention. A comment like that is a lie and utterly stupid.

What does "business experience" have to do with running a country?
George Bush had "business experience" and you can see how well that worked out --( if you open your eyes ).

Here's something else you can quibble with :

http://wiki.answers.com/Q/Did_Ba...

The Big Dog's back

sam, what business experience did ronnie raygun have?

SamAdams

4shizzle and Big Dog: I ask for Obama's business experience. The response: A slam of George W. Bush, and a demand to know what business experience Ronald Reagan has.

That would be fine if we were discussing the pluses or minuses of either Bush or Reagan. We're not. I asked about OBAMA. If that's your only answer, I think I rest my case...

2cents's picture
2cents

Sam, I read one time that he had one year practicing in a private law firm after college. Of course he had all the jobs young people had, at least most of us. Otherwise his career has been predominantly in the public sector. I am not cutting the man down, I think he means well but I think he is using the wrong tools to do what he thinks should be done in this country. He differs just like we differ here, only difference is he controls our destiny and we not his!

The Big Dog's back

We controlled his destiny last November.

Contango

Re: "Sam,"

I once heard a story about an audience of CEOs who were asked the question:

How many of you would have Bill Clinton as the president of your co.?

Not a single hand went up.

Can imagine that the results would not be dissimilar with Dear Leader.

shucks

Clowntango-

Did Bill Clinton "stand you up" ?

The Big Dog's back

4shizzle answered it for you.

The Big Dog's back

sam, I'll put the question to you, what's his business experience and why does it matter?

Contango

Re: "why does it matter?"

One should consider the source of the question:

“I've said you don't have to own a business to know how one works.”

(brutus smith, Oct. 2010)

The Big Dog's back

Government is not a business nor should it be run like one.

Contango

Re: "Government is not a business nor should it be run like one."

Obviously.

Which is why it is tens of trillions of dollars in debt, has hundreds of trillions of dollars in unfunded liabilities, loses hundreds of billions of dollars annually in waste, fraud and abuse and is up to it's *ss in bureaucratic incompetence.

Not for profit ALSO means not for loss.

Eventually the creditors will call and then BANKRUPTCY!

Like individuals, govts. CAN and DO go BANKRUPT!

It's happened time and time again throughout History.

Only a downright MORON would say: It can’t happen here, putz.

shucks

Contango -Government is not a business.

The Hero Zone's picture
The Hero Zone

I ask you this as an honest question. Given that it is not a business why are we even bothering to track debt and spending? If it actually doesn't matter, if we will never actually pay it back, then why bother at all?

Let's all just vote in November to say we don't owe anything and through a mutually-created reality just birth a consent into our culture. We can even dress it up as a business move and say "we will no longer manufacture nor support the dollar any more, those will expire in one year" and use the "rallod" instead and slap a New & Improved label on the wrapped bundles.

The Big Dog's back

I'd explain to you but I would be wasting my time on a right wingnut mind. Why do I say this? Because if you were truly interested in how Gov's worked you would have researched it already instead of spewing right wing talking points. Have a nice life.

The Hero Zone's picture
The Hero Zone

This is the exact reason and answer that explains why the younger generation has a dwindling respect for the older, especially in positions of power. Constantly we are told to just shut up and be relegated to obscurity while supposedly knowledgeable people do all the scheming and none of the explaining. Despite your opinion about my quantity and flavor of nuttiness, you will find I am extremely open-minded and probably support ideals that make what you accuse me of being cringe.

Stop It

^^YES!!^^TO HZ!!

shucks

Sham Adams I gave you link.

KURTje

Ronnie Raygun was like Hitler. Both ruled by the zodiac. Raygun's seer was Joan Quimbly. Both hated Unions too. Both were loved by ultra -right wing groups.

Stop It

*waving goodbye*....C-ya U.A.W.

my oh my

Will be the best thing to happen.Let the plant close.The American unions have out priced and caused industry to outsource itself anyhow..

The Big Dog's back

What about all the non union companies that outsourced and closed. Who's fault was that?

JudgeMeNot

Yours and the rest of the low info voters like you. Why do you care? You got your free phone.

JudgeMeNot

What the bailout actually saved was the UAW’s heavily padded compensation packages. Low info voters wont admit it, but its true. The UAW is a thing of the past and should be relegated to the dust bin.

The Big Dog's back

So faux news convinced you that you were smart?

grumpy

What is hurting the UAW now, and probably will more in the future is the two tiered payscale at GM and Chrysler, where the old GM employees are getting nearly twice the wages that the new employees doing the same thing are getting, then there is the problem of owning most of GM and Fiat US... er Chrysler/jeep.

KURTje

That's okay grump. Your relative you talked about is fine because of a Union.

The Big Dog's back

kurt layeth the smackdown on pooh.

grumpy

i worked as a union member for 36 years so I don't have to take my son's experience for it. The union I was in you could be fired or laid off for not being able to run the machine you were called out for, were slow, were late, almost any dman thing. What the union did FOR the members was collectively bargain for wages and benefits, but the individual could also negotiate a bonus if s/he was good at what we did. Anywhere from 5% up, most I got was 15%. The union also did the insurance, pension, apprenticeship, certification, continuing education, make sure other trades weren't doing our work, and so forth. The union COULDN'T take our dues for ANY political donation or political reason. If the individual wanted to donate and have it bundled they HAD to write a separate check. That union changed with the times and did what the membership wanted, They evolved with the times and haven't stayed in the 1920's or 1930's mindset where everything management did was bad. Few unions I have worked around, other than some trades, have evolved, most stay locked in the 30's, like the UAW. I have seen how they work in both Chrysler and ford auto plants over the years when remodeling or adding on. Typical old school thinking.

Thanks for playing. I have written this out several times already.

The Big Dog's back

Same old koch brother rhetoric.

The Big Dog's back

Time to stop writing it out. Were you an International Rep? No. You don't know a dman thing what went on in other plants.

grumpy

Nope I wasn't a rep, I was/am a journeyman/member. I know many things that went on at other plants. I worked in more than a few auto plants over the years, since I was in construction and remodeled and added onto them... including the jeep plant in Toledo, the expansion there last year was the last job I did before retiring. I also did a lot of work at BP refinery in Oregon and the sun refinery in Northwood. As stated earlier I was in building trades.

The Big Dog's back

What about the Jeep plant in Toledo smart a .

Donegan

You can tell you are hitting close to the mark, Dog is frothing at the mouth and is troll responding. One after another lol!

grumpy

It is fun rubbing piddle puppies nose in the shitsky he knows so well.

2cents's picture
2cents

That was a nice read about the growth and changing of the union you worked for. We read hear mostly the one sided points, for and against.

A friend of mine owned a company that had two unions, one of them had guys doing complex and skilled things and were paid more, the other drove trucks and other associated jobs. They struck because they wanted the same pay as the skilled guys. My friend waited them out and eliminated both unions, he was not against unions, just the greed that he would not allow!

grumpy

I didn't work for the union, the union worked for the members. That is ONE of the differences in a union that has kept up and changed with the times, instead of staying in the mindset of the 30's. The building trades have evolved over the years and manufacturing has changed little as far as many of the jobs on the assembly line goes.

shucks

@Donegan

You're a troll

EZOB

We need a blog for all those Democratic voters in Detroit. I'd like to ask them, how's things working out for you fellows?

EZOB

I forgot to mention that we can ask right here. All you former salaried employees of GM, do you want to help these guys out?

red white and blue

Grumpy thinking that way is why we r where we are at.this country has lost its pride and morrals instead of standing together its every man and women for them selfs.its a shame I commend kbi employes taking a cut in pay to help keep jobs here.as far as a union goes without it we will all be making 5 dollars an hour.don't forget its the union man that's buying those new cars sending there kids to school.unless u know some one that works at burger king that's manged to do y his

grumpy

Why stay with something that hasn't changed and evolved since the 30's? Nothing stays the same for 80 years without changing with the times. I did/do what is/was best for my family. They are my first concern in what I do. If you wish to be concerned about your union first that is your decision. I paid my union dues, kept up with new developments in my trade, worked for what I was paid. If you and others wish to be in a union that hasn't changed in the last 80 years that is fine with me. Another thing you could try is to update your union into the 21st century, that would be best. Trying to hold back needed changes usually fail in the long run.

I have yet to see a manufacturing union stop a company from having a plant move to a different state or country. Wages are only part of the reason companies move. Better than half of my work has been updating plants, expanding them, and building some new ones. The old run down ones won't/don't stay competitive, no matter how much they cut wages. New, remodeled, expanded plants with new equipment are more effiecent than older ones. Then there is gov't and the hoops that has to be jumped through. If they can go somewhere where the cost to do business, that is also part of it. I am sure there are more reasons that make up what a company looks at when deciding about a location. It isn't just whether or not a union is there, that is one part of what is looked at. If many of the workers have a poor attitude towards management that is also part of what they look into.

The Big Dog's back

aye whole, which unions are still the same as they were 80 years ago? Be specific with examples, not conjecture.

KURTje

Thanks for my government $$ grumpy. Don't stop paying.

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