Standing their ground

Black Ohio lawmakers oppose stand-your-ground bill
Associated Press
Aug 4, 2013

 

A group of black lawmakers in Ohio has started circulating petitions to help keep a stand-your-ground proposal from being passed in the state.

The bill would allow people to use force to defend themselves without having a duty to retreat first.

The legislation goes beyond Ohio's current castle doctrine law, which gives people the right to defend themselves with force in their homes, vehicles or vehicles of immediate family members.

Debate over such measures has increased since the recent acquittal of George Zimmerman in the 2012 shooting death of unarmed black teen Trayvon Martin in Florida. Martin's family say Zimmerman, who identifies as Hispanic, racially profiled Martin as a potential criminal and wrongly followed him. Zimmerman says Martin attacked him.

At least 21 states have laws similar to the one in Florida, according to the National Conference of State Legislatures. The laws generally eliminate a person's duty to retreat in the face of a serious physical threat.

Civil rights leaders, including the Rev. Al Sharpton, have said they would push for repeal of the laws. The Ohio Legislative Black Caucus wants to keep the idea from moving forward in the Republican-dominated General Assembly.

State Rep. Terry Johnson, a McDermott Republican, introduced the bill in June. It's had one House hearing. More than a dozen lawmakers back the proposal, which also would ease restrictions on carrying concealed weapons.

Johnson told an Ohio House committee in June that lawful gun owners shouldn't have to turn their backs on an assailant to try to flee if they are in a place where they have a right to be.

"If I was out with my family and we were attacked, I would want to be able to defend them and exercise my constitutional right to do so," Johnson said in written testimony. He noted that people would still need to prove in court that they were acting in self-defense.

Rep. Alicia Reece, president of the black caucus, said the group is trying to draw attention to the bill while state lawmakers are on summer break. They want constituents to tell the governor and legislative leaders that the measure isn't wanted.

"At a time like this, why would we be trying to bring something similar and the state of Ohio?" said Reece, a Cincinnati Democrat.

Johnson said he sees his bill as being a benefit to all, and he hopes he can find common ground with the black caucus on other parts of the bill.

Self-defense related bills failed in at least three states this year, according to the National Conference of State Legislatures. And several proposals that would have amended circumstances for allowable use of force also didn't advance in state legislatures last year.

Reece said at least 1,000 people signed a petition opposing the bill during a Cincinnati rally after the Zimmerman verdict. She said Ohio already has sufficient self-defense laws.

"We are not against anyone being able to defend themselves," she added. "What we have concerns with is something that could be put in the law that could potentially have someone out looking for trouble, pursing a law-abiding citizen that at the end of the day becomes a tragedy."

 

Comments

Contango

Re: "A group of black lawmakers in Ohio has started circulating petitions to help keep a stand-your-ground proposal from being passed in the state."

Criminals also oppose SYG. Nice bedfellows they've chosen.

The Rudy

"The Ohio Legislative Black Caucus "
Why are they not being called on the carpet for the racist name and agenda of their organization?

2cents's picture
2cents

"The Ohio Legislative Black Caucus "

Because our government sponsors racism in so many ways it is now impossible to sponsor equality! It will continue from one generation to another until our government desires equality among all people.

YoMamma

They would prefer "turn the other cheek" bill!

buford

Or "Effdemwhitey's" bill.

buckeye15

Oh look....huronguy is back...under a new name. I guess they can only keep those racists down for so long.

JudgeMeNot

Why are you still talking?

Westender

I think we should take a lesson from the new media. When ever a person dies in a car accident they ask " was the person wearing their seat belt"? When some one dies in a motor cycle accident, they ask "was the person wearing a helmet"? We should ask when some one is a victim of a crime of violence, We need to start to ask if the victim was armed to defend their serf?

ladydye_5

Is there a group of WHITE lawmakers from Ohio? (oh that's right....no there is not...that is RACIST)

deertracker

What are you ranting about? There's plenty of white lawmakers in Ohio!

Mystery_Cheese

Pretty sure she means "The Ohio Legislative Black Caucus" wouldn't fly if it was called "The Ohio Legislative White Caucus." Which I have to say, if you want to end racism, quit singling yourself out by race.

2cents's picture
2cents

Yes and they belong to the NAAWP as well I guess and go home to watch WET at night!

toyrob

It's obvious that the Al Sharpton and his ilk are against any " stand your ground" law due to the outcome of the Zimmerman trial. Did anyone tell them that this law was never used in Zimmerman's defense? The law says you don't have to flee, well you can't flee if the person who initiated the assault is on top of you bashing your head into the concrete. Ohio doesn't have the law but we still have the right to protect ourselves if we are getting the crap beat out of us.

donutshopguy

Sorry but I need to hijack this blog for a minute.

Stopped by Krogers in Sandusky for a few things this morning. The lady in front of me purchased $34.45 dollars in food items with a SNAP card. (free government money)

After receiving her free food she proceeded to the purchase $20.00 dollars in lottery scratch and win tickets with her money.

Is there something wrong here? The government supplies her money for food so she can spend her money on gambling. So I get to support gambling through my tax dollars.

This country is so out of whack. I don't see us ever coming back. Government assistance has become an occupation.

Contango

Re: "The government supplies her money for food so she can spend her money on gambling."

Round and round it goes, where it stops NOBODY knows.

Soon the U.S. will emulate the old joke in the (now defunct) Soviet Union:

They pretend to pay us and we pretend to work.

Good story.

---------------

"In 2010, one in every 12 black men aged 18-64 in the U.S. was incarcerated, versus one in every 87 white men, according to a study by the Pew Charitable Trusts, a public-policy nonprofit."

So would the OH Black Caucus suggest that society jails fewer blacks (discrimination) or imprisons more whites (fairness)?

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB...

deertracker

No pooh, all they are saying is there is no need for SYG laws in Ohio. For all of the supporters of SYG, just remember ANYONE can say they were scared!!!

Contango

Re: "to help keep a stand-your-ground proposal from being passed in the state."

Typical socialists denying rights.

shucks

More like : "Typical socialists denying rights "... of the plutocracy.

deertracker

Sprinkles, why did you use this particular article to go off topic? You don't know whose money she was using or if the tickets were even for her. The money the gov't supplied was used for food as it was suppose to. It's probably best to mind your business and only count your money!

donutshopguy

deer,

Probably better if I don't shop ay Krogers. Almost every time I go into that store I follow someone with a SNAP card. Followed a lady last week buying lobster tails with my money.

I need to employ your mentality. Spread the wealth without participation in gaining the wealth.

buckeye15

You shouldn't shop at Kroger anyway. That is a union store. Better go to Meijer. Oh wait...that store is union too...I guess it is Aldi's for you.

Contango

Re: "You shouldn't shop at..."

All of those are way too expensive for those on the lower socio-economic ladder - they shop at WalMart.

Kinda ironic, several yrs. ago there was a grocery union strike in CA.

Wanna take a guess where the strikers shopped to help stretch their dollars?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sou...

grandmasgirl

I love to shop at Kroger and Meijer. I have been to little stores and big stores. People on government assistance are everywhere. I questioned a stock boy one time asking why certain food products had a sign that said WIC underneath. Did you know that you can only spend a WIC card on name brand products. You cannot use a WIC card to purchase the cheaper generic brand. At least that is what I was told.

The Big Dog's back

Just think, if she hits the lotto she will become part of the 1% and then you will adore her.

totallyamazed

.
@ TBD'sB,

You know that's what I was thinking too. But then I thought...why would a poor democrat want to be like a rich republican they despise? Really, why would that be? The rich (in a poor democrats mind) are ruining the world. Why then, would the lottery lines be so filled with the poor wanting to be rich? Inquiring minds would like to know.

Signed....a poor republican
.

sugar

They want to be what they despise. So confused are libs.

shucks

The Repubs despise the poor - Now what ?

herbie_hancock

You DO know that 48% of that rich 1% are democrats right?.... Or is this just another subject your guessing at without knowing the facts?

shucks

Really ?

http://www.gallup.com/poll/15131...

Who's guessing at without knowing the facts?
Can you say..........Herbie Hancock?

herbie_hancock

Whoa!!! You found a statistic that contradicts another statistic...

http://youtu.be/qh_IFymXS9o

shucks

Looks like you are in the Darwin's Reject Division ,Mr. herbie_hancock

herbie_hancock

haha yeah fo sheezy, Id prefer Devils Reject though, Darwin was an idiot. Hey when you don't have anything else to say you should call people names and insist everything's phony that seems to work. Thanks for the respectful "Mr." though.

http://youtu.be/uO2gw3LVIU4

Contango

Gotta ask:

Why are 7 of the 10 richest people on Capital Hill Democrat?

Shouldn't "rich-Democrat" be an oxymoron since they are 'supposedly' altruistic? :)

Slinging poverty and income inequality must pay pretty well huh?

We are a nation of "Haves & Have Mores."

Compared to much of the world, U.S. "poor" are living in luxury.

The Big Dog's back

Boy are you jealous.

2cents's picture
2cents

A friend owns a convenient store in Cleveland, 90% of his sales are on the card, then comes the cash to buy the booze. Many work, just under the table for cash.

AEversole

I am saddened deeply by the trayvon Martin case and feel Mr. Zimmerman was out of line, but believe the stand your ground laws are completely necisary in today's world to be able to protect yourself, your family, and property. If I am out in public and assaulted I should not have to run away to protected by the law. I should be able to use force if needed when in fear for my or families life and be free from prosecution. If you haven't been to Cleveland or Detroit and cities alike it is turning into a free for all for criminals and con men, and it is my right as a u.s. citizen and as a human being to be able to protecet myself and not have to back down to a pack of gang bangin thug kids just because they have a pocket knife or a bb gun.

The Big Dog's back

If there wasn't such a wage disparity in this country, where people who work 40 hours a week could support their families, there wouldn't be such a high crime rate.

sugar

If you're worried about a 40 hr work week then be upset with obamacare, due to that heinous law most fulltime workers have been cut to 28 hrs a week. Great job obama.

The Big Dog's back

Which company did that sugar. Be specific.

deertracker

Which company GI Joe? The mandate part of the law is not even in effect yet. The ACA is a good law and will help millions!

Contango

Re: "The mandate part of the law is not even in effect yet."

Since you don't own a business, one should not expect you to understand.

ACA had to be shoved down the throats of the American people. Only Obama-holes would refer to it as "a good law."

The Hero Zone's picture
The Hero Zone

It was a well-intentioned policy that has dramatically affected the job market. My major qualm with it is that I have a government that forces me as a private citizen to enter into a private contract with a private company under penalty, but that is beside the point.

Part of the latest job numbers released include that part-time jobs are far outpacing full time. I have heard it referred to as the 29/49 Rule. You don't hire people more than 29 hours a week to circumvent the mandate just as you don't hire that 50th-plus employee to avoid other broad segments of the ACA. As has been mentioned here a lot, too, we are seeing an under-the-table cash economy to avoid many of the regulations coming down.

As for companies sticking to the 29 portion of "The Rule" I believe we can look at Cedar Point here locally. I have the opportunity to speak to many, many year-round-but-"part-time" employees who are unemployed for a portion of the year. This did exist before ACA, yes as it was literally the dead season, but starting last year that time was longer with no less dead time. If you add up the hours I do believe it equates to:

52*29=1508

So no matter when you work within a year cycle (even if it is 40+ hours a week) you will be forced to take a break after you hit your 1500+ until the next cycle begins as the interpretation of the 29 Rule is in the aggregate of a year an employee can't work more than 30/week.

As for the cash-for-work, when there are many people who have bills taken care of by support programs (which I am not saying is a bad thing), it is easier and less complicated to just do local stuff for cash. All of this is human nature I can't condemn. If your basic survival needs are taken care of, you then focus on higher-level desires. As much as the stereotype of the Welfare Queen exists, many I believe aren't consciously living that lifestyle despite appearances.

Many laws from the ACA to our Income Tax are defunct as their presumptions about the knowledge and ability of the populace are flawed or outdated. They are divisive and only create misunderstanding and resentment between those who the laws claim can take care of themselves and those that can't. Everyone must be made into a producer instead of penalized and demonized for it. Those who are consumers (even through no maliciousness nor fault of their own) must be the bare minimum of society. For any number of broad or specific reasons, we are shifting - or some would argue have already shifted - into a majority of consumers with a dying segment of producers.

Stop It

Well thought out and well stated, HZ.

The Big Dog's back

Like companies haven't been doing that for years hero. They have worked people under 30 hours a week so they wouldn't be considered full time for 40+ years. Nothing new here, and for a company now trying to use the ACA as an excuse is pure nonsense. Ask people who worked retail in the 70's and 80's about their hours. You people are sure gullible.

The Hero Zone's picture
The Hero Zone

Given the premise of your argument, the ACA then gives a legal, legitimate reason for the practice that before you could just carry a personal harrumph against and in fact does NOT offer any real incentive to hire people full-time. Correct? Maybe they should call 20 hours a week full time? Surely no company will employ people for less than 20 hours a week right? That will fix this problem, right? We should also mandate $40/hour minimum wage because companies will be forced to pay that. That will fix things, right?

Why is it nonsense that when humans make rules, other humans immediately try to find ways around, through, or just plainly ignore them? Calling legal deductions in the tax code "loopholes" is laughable for example. That is like being upset that milk is fleeing your cereal in the morning because you are using a sieve as a bowl. What audacity for milk to use the laws of physics despite your desires! All milk henceforth must be frozen or gelatinous in order for you to not have to use another implement than a sieve to eat your Cheerios!

"We made this a deduction in the code but are appalled that people are actually using it. So, we're going to brand people who use perfectly legal techniques to reduce their tax burden all kinds of names to shame them into...not doing anything different. Oh, we're also not going to change the tax code."

"We set a 30 hour limit as the definition of full time and are appalled that people are actually using that limit to still employ people part-time. So, we're going to brand people who use perfectly legal techniques to reduce their tax burden all kinds of names to shame them into...not doing anything different. Oh, we're not going to change the tax code either."

I agree 100% with you, there is nothing new here. In the gaming industry we have two terms we use: RAW and RAI. Those stand for Rules-As-Written and Rules-As-Intended. Even if you disagree with a game's rule or think it was poorly done so, you must play the game with rules as they were written despite what you believe the RAI was. You can invoke RAI but everyone must consent to it and see that there is no official clarification or a major disambiguity. In other words all the players change the rules together.

In this case, the rule is written pretty clearly. So to be upset that people are actually following the law is...what it is. When people think they know better and can socially engineer or dictate behavior - no matter how well intentioned - you will always find results like this. Always. Did I say always? Always. Always. Always. Always.

The abolitionist movement was a great example of this, to invoke a cause that I have no doubt you'd support or feel strongly about.

The Big Dog's back

Gibberish hz.

KnuckleDragger

LOL.

http://128.118.178.162/eps/le/pa...

Since you are cognitively challenged I will sum up the results of the study. The liberal claim that income inequality is a major cause of violent crime is a myth.

2cents's picture
2cents

Ironically because everyone wants the lowest price companies like Wally Word have provided that. Unfortunately the manufacturing jobs are about gone and you need a four degree to make a comfortable living, and that is not even a given. So many degreed kids of all colors and nationalities looking for work too. Our president is looking to the sky for jobs to fall, this is so foolish unless we close our boarders and make everything here, that is an impossibility.

Contango

Re: "people who work 40 hours a week could support their families,"

Go for it: Start a business paying top wages and benefits.

herbie_hancock

Haha what does a "wage rate" have to do with someones disregard for character and integrity? The people robbing, raping, killing and assaulting are not doing it because they can't support their families hahaha thanks for that one. You don't get to demand more than minimum wage until you have more than minimum skills. You do know what inflation is don't you? Its the concept that would make the minimum wage of $15 dollars an hour the new $7.25 and the $3.50 gallon of gas $8.00 and the people with minimum skills would still complain about not making enough.

deertracker

These SYG laws are redundant. Self defense laws do allow you to protect your family and property with lethal force if necessary. You would be free from prosecution as long as the facts support your claim. However, you would have a duty to retreat if at all possible. You can't just shoot and kill someone because you are scared. Some on here really need to review the law and stop misinterpreting it.

2cents's picture
2cents

I bet Michael Jordan's daddy was real scared when those two white punks robbed and killed him! There are people out there searching for opportunity to do these things along the road or while you are walking home from the store. Not long after that episode I got my CCW, if I have a flat that gun will be on my side, bad guys will see it and move on, therefor no conflict unless they choose!

deertracker

The CCW permit only allows you to carry a gun, nothing else. A bad guy is usually armed also!

getit right be4...

Wrong again. The CCW only allows you to conceal guns. You do not need a permit to carry a gun.

Victimizations involving a firearm represented 8% of the 6.3 million violent crimes of rape and sexual assault, robbery, and aggravated and simple assault.

So 8% of the time in your book is usually? You constantly drool in the comment section with no facts to back up your slobber.

deertracker

You need a permit to conceal it is true but how can one conceal it if they don't carry it? My point is it does not give you the right to shoot anyone! Unlike you, I don't necessarily just go with what is written. It has proven to be incorrect repeatedly. Doesn't matter anyway because your stats are not relevant to the point I was making about the what a CCW does and does not do. Pay attention!

getit right be4...

So back up your statement that most bad guy also have guns. Back it up with facts. You can not because it is not the case.

More drool from you.

shucks

getit right be4...You are making yourself look stupid.

SamAdams

Why should I be obligated to cower in a closet in my own home while the bad guys ransack whatever belongings I have? Why should I have to run and risk a gunshot or a knife in the back when I'm peacefully watching television and a bad guy breaks in?

I'm sorry. You break in, and that's more than enough to legitimately assume I'm about to be victimized and to fight back — including with lethal force — immediately.

Is my TV worth killing over? No. But how do I know that's all the bad guy wants? How do I know the bad guy won't hurt me or worse? Unless mind reading is yet another liberal demand, I'm going to play it safe and shoot. So NOW the question becomes: Is my TV worth DYING for?

The Big Dog's back

Be careful what you wish for, that gun could be turned on you.

deertracker

@BD
Exactly!

KnuckleDragger

Not likely.

SamAdams

If you're suggesting that a gun would be turned on me because I represent a threat, I'll take that chance given that I'm not much into assault or burglary.

And if you're suggesting that my OWN gun would be turned on me, well, that'll be mighty tough to do if I pull the trigger before the bad guy gets close enough to take it. (For the record, those people who have a gun to defend themselves which is then taken and used against them are the same people who have a gun but DON'T have the actual will to use it.)

Contango

Try to force your way up to a member of the OH Black Caucus or someone like US AG Eric Holder to merely ask a question and see if they or their bodyguards don't practice SYG.

Love the (bleeping) hypocrisy!

The socialist central planners hate the Bill of Rights except those Amendments that will help further their totalitarian agenda.

The Big Dog's back

Actually winnie, young people don't want to hear your racist agenda, they're more concerned about jobs that will support them and their families.

Contango

The OH Black Caucus and other poverty pimps like Sharpton made SYG a racial issue.

Wanna bet that gangbangers don't practice SYG?

deertracker

You can't "force" your way anywhere without negative repercussions. What would you do if someone "forced" their way into your home? Poverty pimp? SMDH!!!!!!

Contango

Re: "Poverty pimp?"

Yep! Sharpton, Jackson and others have gotten wealthy playing the race and poverty card and the terminally clueless like yourself think that they're out to help you. LMAO!!!

deertracker

How wealthy are they pooh? Enlighten us!

Sitting In The ...

MSNBC paid him $750,000 a year to host "Politics Nation" and that's just the tip of iceberg. He's easily making millions of dollars each year when you add his foundation, appearances etc.

deertracker

How does that make him a poverty pimp? Are you all upset because he has a job? Foundation appearances? Talk about clueless!

Contango

Re: "How wealthy are they,"

What? You don't think that they are wealthy? You remain: Terminally clueless.

deertracker

I repeat, HOW WEALTHY ARE THEY? DO TELL! Anyone????

Contango

Re: "I repeat, HOW WEALTHY ARE THEY? DO TELL! Anyone????"

What, Obama-holes are also ignorant when it comes to the use of search engines??? :)

deertracker

Your claim pooh, back it up!

Contango

A public service for the search engine ignorant:

http://www.celebritynetworth.com...

http://www.celebritynetworth.com...

Poverty pimps - gettin' wealthy off of promoting racial and social hatred.

The Big Dog's back

Al Sharpton hosts a program, a job. What does rushbo make for hosting a klan rally, I mean a program?

JudgeMeNot

How much is Al Sharpton worth?
$5 Million
Al Sharpton has earned his net worth as a regular guest appearances on 'Fox News' such as The O'Reilly Factor.

Yes deerwacker and poochy, FOX NEWS - FOX NEWS - FOX NEWS. Your beloved reverend get his cash flow from FOX NEWS.

Leave it to Sharpton to make it all about race. Dumba$$es.

Contango

Re: "You can't "force" your way anywhere without negative repercussions."

Point terminally clueless: Do AG Holder's bodyguards have a "duty to retreat first" like they want ordinary citizens to do?

deertracker

What is the job of a bodyguard? Grow a brain please!

Contango

Re: "What is the job of a bodyguard?"

So the political elite get taxpayer provided bodyguards and everyone else should retreat if advanced on?

Double standard clueless.

deertracker

Pooh, step away from the Kessler's!!!!!!!!

mikeylikesit

smooth as silk

arnmcrmn

contango just straight up owned and biyach slapped deer.....so funny.

shucks

Contango- You are making yourself look stupid- you shouldn't comment anymore - ever.

KURTje

OK donut...ewg.org. My relative makes more in subsidies than I do working. That is wrong. Plus he drives a new car & truck every 3-5years. That too is welfare. (It is no longer farming - it is Agri-buSINess)

donutshopguy

kURTje,

Believe it or not, I agree. The scams promoted by government to promote a welfare state hits all levels of society.

No one need to be responsible for their life. The government will provide.

When those of us who provide through taxes to support these dependency programs decide enough is enough and stop working what will happen?

You can't generate enough tax dollars when people won't work. The time is coming.

Contango

Re: "You can't generate enough tax dollars"

Detroit is a PRIME example. Too many public perqs, too few tax dollars.

deertracker

I guess all the people that patronize your business are wealthy do gooders, right? I pay taxes too and I have no control how those tax dollars are spent. If every single social program were eliminated, what would your tax rate go down to? You can't generate tax dollars when there are no jobs to work or the jobs that are available don't pay a livable wage. How much does a job at your place pay? Benefits?

Contango

Re: "How much does a job at your place pay? Benefits?"

Go for it clueless: Start a business and pay high wages and provide great benefits.

donutshopguy

deer,

Most of my customers are small business people trying to survive in today's business environment.

Don't you want to decide where your tax dollars are spent?

I don't want social programs eliminated for those who need it. It just upsets me when those programs are abused and I have no recourse in how my tax dollars are distributed.

Please explain a "living wage". What is your interpretation?

The pay scale depends on experience and education. A person who packs a box is paid less than a machine operator. People with additional talents will be paid more than those who have an entry level job.

Benefits are provided with both employee and company participation.

You looking for a job?

The Big Dog's back

Kurt, people like donut consider guys like your relative the same as you. They never, never speak out against the real welfare Queens, the Corporate Welfare Queens.

JudgeMeNot

Sharpton always looks like he should be cleaning algae off the inside of a fish tank.

sugar

SYG protects the victim, CCW protects the victim. The only reason the black caucus is against SYG is because their race is rarely on the victim side. Unless it is black on black crime. Truth is painful.

deertracker

Another dumb comment! SMDH!!!!!!!

2cents's picture
2cents

Sugar is statistically correct!

deertracker

We know most crimes against backs are by blacks. The same can be "statistically correct" for all races. CCW is to prevent you from becoming a victim. It is not there so you can justify your actions. CCW teaches you your gun is not a weapon, correct?

2cents's picture
2cents

(gun is not a weapon, correct?)

Yep, they drilled that in my head during the class and the main reason is that an weapon is considered aggressive, you are defending yourself so this is defensive.

I personally believe that anyone who chooses to own a firearm should be required the 12 hour class and range time the class requires along with the county background check. I am all 2nd amendment, but also do not want idiots, crack heads, whack jobs and the like any where near the "backside" of a firearm : )

grumpy

Wrong. Read the law regarding CCW. In Ohio you can't even pull the gun unless you are "in fear for great bodily harm or death, for yourself or others". Then you have to realize that if you use it for self defense you have to prove by the "preponderence of the evidence" that you were "in fear of bodily harm or death for yourself or others". That is the law in Ohio. If you carry in Ohio that is how you have to think about it. Trying to use weasel words to make some political point doesn't enter into the way a CCW carrier SHOULD think about it. Thinking any other way can get your rear in prison, as there are mandatory minimum sentences for having a gun in a crime. You might just end up with a celli named Ben Dover. That is why I would prefer for a JUDGE to rule on a SYG ruling than self defense in the hands of an emotional jury who can fudge the law when it isn't "beyond a reasonable doubt". Judges rule on the LAW not emotion, or at least they should.

OMG.LOL.WT_

"Debate over such measures has increased since the recent acquittal of George Zimmerman in the 2012 shooting death of unarmed black teen Trayvon Martin in Florida. Martin's family say Zimmerman, who identifies as Hispanic, racially profiled Martin as a potential criminal and wrongly followed him. Zimmerman says Martin attacked him." Martin's family were NOT there but they say?????? AP showing their BIAS!

deertracker

DEAD speaks for itself! Did you say "unarmed?"

SamAdams

Okay, I think I understand what you're saying here. If I shoot a man who's intent on raping me, it's me who's the bad guy if he doesn't happen to have a gun on him at the time of the attack. Of course, since you sound like one of those men who think women who are raped are ASKING to be raped, the entire thing was probably my fault, anyway. Right??? And so I really should have just lay down and let it happen, I guess. Right again???

Contango

Re: "A group of black lawmakers in Ohio has started circulating petitions to help keep a stand-your-ground proposal from being passed in the state."

So why the h*ll is this a racial thing?

Because of the media circus surrounding one single trial in FLA?

Collectively does this group amount to one brain?

2cents's picture
2cents

The one concern over SYG is that gangs are using it to conduct street shootings among themselves and getting away with it. This was on the news a few weeks ago but I cannot quote the exact story.

Stop It

I promise that there is one white boy in FLA who will have his CCW as soon as he is able.

http://www.wfla.com/story/228194...

http://www.thegatewaypundit.com/...

getit right be4...

No one should ever have to retreat from an aggressor armed or unarmed. You have the right to defend yourself. What give the state the right to tell you you must turn your back and flee.

Try goggling one punch deaths and see how many stories come up. It does not take an armed aggressor to end your life just just takes one punch. One punch thrown is grounds to protect yourself with deadly force.

The problem with Ohio law is that the burden of proof falls on the victim. They have to prove there was no method of retreat and that they feared for there life. The burden should fall on the state to prove otherwise. Innocent till proven guiltily not the other way around.

grumpy

"The problem with Ohio law is that the burden of proof falls on the victim. They have to prove there was no method of retreat and that they feared for there life. The burden should fall on the state to prove otherwise. Innocent till proven guiltily not the other way around."

You are the only one on here who actually knows about the law here in Ohio pertaining to self defense. Ohio is the only State where the defendant has to prove innocence in a self defense case. Every other state the prosecutor has to prove guilt, beyond a reasonable doubt. I got into it more in my post below a ways. I missed this when I was first reading through the replies to the article.

deertracker

No need for flattery grumpy! It does not become you. You are ALWAYS guilty until proven innocent regardless of the crime! Wake up!

grumpy

You are a fool if you believe that. But then we have seen how you reacted to the Martin/Zimmerman case. The law should be on a sliding scale as far as you are concerned.

deertracker

Commit a crime and we will see who the fool is!

grumpy

If I would commit a crime I would be guilty, fool. If I would be arrested for something I didn't do I would be not guilty. Did you understand the difference there, or do you need pictures, oh foolish one?

getit right be4...

Just more drool from the Deer. This guy never has facts to back up his wet chin. He is a constant slobber jaw of opinion. A opinion that is uneducated at best.

shucks

"Just more drool from the Deer. This guy never has facts to back up his wet chin. He is a constant slobber jaw of opinion. A opinion that is uneducated at best."
.........Who the hell are you ?

deertracker

getit right before you post! You have nothing to add to the conversation so turn off your computer and go cut the grass or something!

Truth or Dare

I don't need any SYG law to defend myself! It comes naturally.

Although this is off topic, I caught an interview the other night on WVIZ. That would be Public Broadcasting for those that are stuck on only a couple of "bias" channels. It was an interview with the creators of an interesting documentary called "A Place At The Table". Viewing it would help immensely for those who just don't get it, you know, what it's like to be a part of the 50 Million within this country that are "food insecure", 17 Million being children. Oh, and no I don't have nor need a SNAP card or any other govt. assistance to purchase our groceries. By the way, the best way to cut cost and boost profits along w/hefty corporate bonuses, is to reduce hours and benefits and raise prices. That's fact.

I do believe Washington, Congress and good ole Big Corporate America and their lobbyist has lost all sense of any humanity they may of had, especially for those within their own country!

JERRY from SANDUSKY

im for SYG the idiots are scuring now

Contango

Re: "A group of black lawmakers in Ohio has started circulating petitions to help keep a stand-your-ground proposal from being passed in the state."

So they're arguing that they want their fellow blacks to run and high tail it when confronted?

grumpy

Just to put in a few facts into a discussion about what is law in Ohio... Ohio is the only State that makes the defendant who claims self defense prove his innocence. He has to prove he was in fear of bodily harm or death. Every other time a prosicutor has to prove guilt.

http://scholar.google.com/schola...

Other than Tax court, where you have to prove you are innocent, it is the only time I know of having to prove you are innocent.

Thus with a defendant needing to prove his innocence, I can see the need for SYG in Ohio, where a defendant has to prove his innocence, instead of the State having to prove guilt, in a self defense case. Can you imagine not having money, and having to prove innocence? What lawyer, other than a public defender, would take that case?

Why am I not surprised at the number of law experts, especially when concerning gun laws, that they didn't know about this, and the reason why SYG might just be needed, unless the self defense laws here are changed to the State needing to prove guilt. But then I am not really surprised that they make it a race case instead of a case about laws, and how they are written.

For those who need the case explained to them read starting at 2b in article below:

http://www.volokh.com/2012/03/24...

I would rather have a judge who finds cases in terms of law make a ruling in SYG rather than the emotions of a jury when they can fudge it, when Innocent until proven guilty beyond a reasonable doubt is NOT used.

KURTje

Glad that some noticed. ALL in elected "leadership" need pay/benefits cuts. We the people do the real work...not them.

JudgeMeNot

What the liberal media won't tell you , blacks benefit most from SYG laws. Rules that make self-defense more difficult would impact blacks the most who live in high crime urban areas.

Democrats want poor minorities votes, but they just don’t want them to be able to defend themselves.

The Big Dog's back

Just like separate entrances into restaurants, different restroom facilities, different drinking fountains, yep, all benefited Blacks.

grumpy

That was 50-60 years ago, you bring them up as if they are relevant now. You are stuck in time, with the rest of the world passing you by. I thought you say that conservatives are wanting things to not change. You keep trying to go back with race and unions to that era where you would march in the streets or have sit ins to protest what is happening. Instead of dealing with the present. Things have changed.

Try to catch up with the times and live in the present instead of the past. Are you still looking for uboats in Lake Erie and Zero's flying overhead? How far back do you think it is?

Donegan

Introducing Race into any argument is usually a dieing gasp of a failed argument.

2cents's picture
2cents

(But the debate has everything backwards over who benefits from the law. Poor blacks who live in high crime urban areas are not only the most likely victims of crime, they are also the ones who benefit the most from Stand Your Ground laws.

http://www.foxnews.com/opinion/2...

Donegan

We should not divide ourselves over laws that effect us all based apon racial differences. The question should be "As a Citizen of the state of Ohio will we benifit from this law" Personally i think every Citizen has the right to stand thier ground. If i wanted to live in a country full of sniveling cowards i would move to France.

goofus

The other day George Zimmerman saved four people from a rolled over SUV in Florida. This just in Zimmerman has saved more lives than Obamacare.

Darwin's choice

^this^

Contango

Re: "George Zimmerman"

He also got stopped for speeding in TX.

http://www.wbtv.com/story/229811...

GOD BLESS TEXAS!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x...

The Big Dog's back

Awwww c'mon goof. I heard it was 40 nuns on a school bus.

JudgeMeNot

Burn his house down,would that make you happy?

The Big Dog's back

No. Next question.

OH-IO

It won't become an issue until Black citizens whose backgrounds aren't good start killing innocent white children. Then it'll get changed.

Contango

Re: "Black citizens whose backgrounds aren't good start killing innocent white children."

Good point. Drugs weren't an issue for the Political Ruling Class as long as they stayed in the black ghettos.

BUT, when white kids started using - PASS LAWS!!!

EZOB

1) If you are confronted, shoot first and don't ask answer any questions later, leave that to your attorney.
2) If you make it a fair fight, your tactics suck. You needed a different plan.
3) Shoot till your opponet quits moving that a couple more times for good measure. Save a few rounds in case there's an accomplace.
4) There should only be one story in the end, YOURS!
5) Most likely you'll soon find that your Victim has a lenghty rap sheet and probably was released from prison not long ago.

The Big Dog's back

Most likely you'll find the victim had a family who might want revenge. So before you do anything stupid, do you really want to live the rest of your life looking over your shoulder?

JudgeMeNot

Zimmer was found not guilty time to move on unless you love drinking the juice spewing from the likes of Sharpton and Jackson.

arnmcrmn

Why can't the title be "lawmakers in Ohio....."? Why does everything have to be race associated?

Next time some white guys want a law passed Id like the SR to make the title "White Ohio lawmakers......."

Truth or Dare

I better understand why my Great-grandparents put my Grandfather and Great-uncle on a boat in Italy headed for America in 1916. They saw the writing on the wall then.

Facism: (Noun) 1.) An authoritarian and nationalistic right-wing system of government and social organization. In general use; 2.) Extreme right-wing authoritarian, or intolerant views or practice.

Contango

Re: "Facism" (sp)

Fascism, communism, socialism, Leninism, Maoism, et al.; all of the collectivist "isms" have their origin in Marxism.

See: The Ten Planks of The Communist Manifesto.

http://laissez-fairerepublic.com...

The Big Dog's back

Same old lies you spew pooh.

Donegan

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Use... See Above for a good example.

EZOB

Look over My shoulder? Not really! Have a tombstone placed over my grave? Guess I'd have to choose to look over my shoulder.

Truth or Dare

Oops, sorry about the typo. Regarding The Ten Planks of Marxism, all the "isms" boil down to, is CapitalISM, resulting in Class Warfare. Which by the way, is as old as Man/Womankind.

Another great documentary to watch is "The Money Fix". Those with little to lose, lose little. Those with much to lose, don't really have as much as they think they do.

KURTje

Remember dog...he "ain't a Christian."