Perkins Schools offers free pizza, levy discussion

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Alissa Widman Neese
Jul 16, 2013

 

Citizens for Perkins Schools will host a question-and-answer session with Perkins Schools superintendent Jim Gunner at Chet and Matt's Pizza at 6 p.m. tonight.

Anyone can come and ask the group questions about the upcoming August levy vote or general questions about the district.

Chet and Matt's Pizza will provide free pizza and drinks.

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Comments

Perkins2060

Keep dreaming buddy. They got you.

donutshopguy

OK, "no" voters, I have done all I can do to give you the opportunity to find candidates to run for the school board prior to the building of a new building. The only way you can change the present philosophy of the school board or change the superintendent is to elect people that share your beliefs.

If you don't offer an alternative to the voting public ,nothing will change.

My thoughts

A couple questions. Hiw many board seats are available in November? Which current board members are up for re-election? Does anyone have some names of potential candidates? I don't dispute the need for an operating levy after many years without additional funding but do not trust the administration to go against the wishes of the voting public and build a new building.

Perkins2060

The money has already been moved by inside millage. It's too late. This operating levy is to replace the funds we already gave them to operate that they took for gunners new building. This will never stop. They will be back next november with their grubby hands out threatening for more.

Bherrle

Perkins 2060,

The only millage that could be moved was the 5.2 mills. Legally, nothing else can be moved. Operating levy funds cannot be moved, by law, such as those being voted on in August.

It is not Gunners building.

Sense1

Two seats are up in the November election. Both Dr. Printy and Mr. Chapman are running for re-election. As of now, I have not heard of any potential candidates who are running against them.

Strong Schools ...

There will be two seats open in November. I have heard of two people who are running but I do not want to post their names without permission. If anyone is unhappy, they should run for the board in November. That is when you can take out your frustrations...not in August! Support the students!

jwt

deleted by writer

ohioredbabe

Have you thought of running? I am being serious.

Wald

Could someone please post the letter from the BOE?

donutshopguy

I don't trust Mr. Gunner but I have had no problem with the school board. I will give them the benefit of the doubt until they prove me wrong.

We as "no" voters have the opportunity to change the complexion of the present board. If you don't like the millage move we have the opportunity to revisit that decision with new board members prior to building a new building.. If you don't like the superintendent we have the opportunity to effect a change with new board members.

If all we do is stand by and complain then we don't deserve a new direction. I am willing to agree to this operating levy if I have a chance to change the board.

Perkins2060

So by voting no you won't be able to vote new board members in November? Did gunner turn the board into a monarchy without a vote too?

believeit

Please explain what you are talking about. What does voting no have to do with your ability to restructure the board? Gunner is hired by the board and while he is expected to present suggestions and ideas to the board, cannot overrule them.

Strong Schools ...

The board makes the final decision. Dr. Gunner can give his opinion but the board of education makes all of the decisions that are put into action.

Strong Schools ...

Perkins 2060,
You are taking your frustration out on the wrong people. Don't punish the students for something they had no control over. Support the students in August!

Perkins2060

Yawn

fifteenthgreen

What about those sewage, asbestos and electrical safety issues at the high school? We going to ignore those now since the BOE has promised that this levy is for operations in their letter to the editor. I thought these issues were urgent! Is my child safe or not?

Bherrle

Fifteenthgreen,

In response to your post "What about those sewage, asbestos and electrical safety issues at the high school? We going to ignore those now since the BOE has promised that this levy is for operations in their letter to the editor. I thought these issues were urgent! Is my child safe or not?"

The money previously moved to inside millage will be used to fund facilities needs. And the board has agreed to hold decisions on the buildings issues until after the November election. I guess I really don't understand your position, or your point with this post. It seems to me it is intended only to inflame the situation, but please set me straight. I seem to remember you being against the inside millage move, and against the operating levies? If this is true, how to you expect them to fund anything?

fifteenthgreen

Just asking what funds are going to be used to repair these issues. If I recall, that was the reason for the first new building push. Are these issues now being ignored or are our children safe, i.e. removal of asbestos tiles, raw sewage, exposed electrical wires, etc...

Perkins2060

In other words, a new building will be announced officially in November. Thank you fearful parents.

Strong Schools ...

Read the facts. The new board members will have a say with this process and that is what the community wants. The parents are not fearful! They, we, will stand up for our children. Thank you caring parents for putting your child first and supporting the levy in August!

believeit

It's pretty obvious you are going over the top with this post. Is it immediately unsafe to even walk into the high school? Of course not, but are these issues that the professional non-biased evaluators have deemed necessary to rectify? This time, of course. The asbestos is painted over, so legally it is contained. But if you think it is the best case scenario, I think you would be mistaken. Are the "temporary" trailers at Briar unsafe? No, but who would be the first to scream outrage if an incident (eg. tornado, fire) did occur? Nobody said these issues will be ignored, only that they will be readdressed after this operating levy is determined.

fifteenthgreen

But it wasn't that long ago that the building conditions were so dire that the buildings were deemed unsafe. What is it? Now they're ok? Why are these kids still exposed to these buildings if a floor tile could be damaged and asbestos becomes exposed? Shouldn't the buildings be taken down as previously stated and a new campus constructed? Why are we suddenly changing our tune? Not only are jobs at stake...but now the safety of our children. What is our agenda here???

Common Sense

The safety of our children has always been at the forefront of this issue with the educators and the administration of Perkins Local Schools. These "kids" have a responsible administrator who deems that all floor tiles that are damaged will be replaced and all will be sealed to lower the exposure to asbestos. This administrator also deems that the school maintnance staff will walk through and seal any asbestos-tiled ceilings that are damaged (high school boys love to show how high they can jump while others think it's cut to throw sharp objects skyward). This same administrator had the ceiling in the nurse's office in Furry removed and replaced. The maintenance staff suggested tiling over the falling asbestos, but he refused to put the children in any more danger. The repairs that we can afford are minimal, but the BOE has backed off the issue because it is giving the community the opportunity to select a board that they may feel better represents their wishes.

donutshopguy

I could vote "no" and still vote for new board members. But, I am willing to find middle ground so I can assure no building will be started prior to the November election.

We now have a written public document that allows the voting public the opportunity to change the school board prior to the start of the building even if the operating levy passes. We were never offered that guarantee before.

The present school board has given the public the opportunity to rescind the millage move and change the superintendent with new board members.

Of course if no one runs against the two existing board members this whole exercise is mute.

fifteenthgreen

The letter to the editor stated that the new schools are on hold. Has the safety of the children been put on hold, as well? What is being done to eliminate the emergency health issues that originally required a $3,000,000 design plan? Why are these children still exposed to raw sewage, potential asbestos, etc.? Or is it ok until after the November election? Which is it?

underthebridge

Can you clarify this post? What is the written public document? The letter to the editor?

donutshopguy

letter to the editor

Centauri

As long as no tax money was used indirectly by the "Citizens for Perkins Schools" and by indirectly I mean school supplies, paper, paid tax payer labor during normal school hours and any school equipment like copy machines, computers, school emails and so forth.

http://www.perkinslevy.com/
Perkins Local Schools Levy Website
Letter to Sandusky Register

http://www.perkins.k12.oh.us/pro...

http://www.perkinsschools.org/Do...
Levy Organizational Meeting Presentation
Attached is the Organizational Meeting Presentation.

fifteenthgreen

Who's running against Chapman and Printy in November? If they retain their positions...business as usual?

Common Sense

It could be you. Here's the chance to serve your schools and your community. Be prepared for a thankless job. Did you know that many, if not all, the board members donat their pay back to the school system? Just something for everyone to think about as we prepare for the elections.

RMyer

FG-A board member has the difficult job of trying to balance decisions that are best for students, community and staff. You would find, assuming you ran and were elected, that some will criticize you for an action (e.g. moving forward with building issues), then turn around and question the decision to wait to move forward (e.g. wait until the next election). Some will never support any decision you make due to financial or personal issues; some will never support you due to having had an experience with an administrator or teacher or coach that was not positive for some reason; some who don't live in the district will oppose you-I'm not sure why (past issues?); some will oppose you due to tax issues involved (some people are opposed to any tax regardless of the reason); some will oppose you because their school system is impacted by decisions made by our school system (thank the legislature and gov. for creating that situation-don't blame the school board); some will oppose actions because they don't have any family in the school system, and then the supporters will be pushing you to continue on a path they prefer. Every major decision will be greeted this way. Some will not attend meetings, and some will not bother to review the evidence/facts (or ignore same) but will have strong opinions that will be posted anonymously and contain statements that would probably not be made in a public forum. Some of these anonymous posters will question your integrity and character.

I don't envy the position board members are in and give credit to those who decide to serve our community for the right reasons (i.e. no narrow agenda to push, no grudge) and to put themselves in such a public position that requires difficult decisions be made.

True Blue

Mr. Chapman was the one who found out they could move the inside milage. So, Mr. Gunner and the BOE moved the inside milage. Lies and deception years ago is the reason the voters stopped voting for the school levies. People are making less in wages. We have people losing their jobs. We've had other levies on the ballot and more in the future. We've got the State and the Erie County Commissioners going to raise the sales tax. So, maybe all you yes voters can afford to vote yes on all the levies, but alot of us CAN'T. And your BOE and Mr. Gunner will proceed with the building of your campus right after the November election. This has been in the works for a long time. If this levy passes you'll be financially stable, right? lol

Perkins2060

These parents that can't afford the pay to play fees that are on the levy committee are going to have a rude awakening when the tax bill comes in the mail for years to come. This is only the beginning. Our homes are already over valued so the schools can take more from us. They will be back time and time again demanding more and making the same threats. All you parents that can't afford the pay to play fees should make little Johnny get a job and pay the fees.

Strong Schools ...

I am ready for my tax bill. I will be happy to pay it knowing that my child will be receiving a high quality and well rounded education. It has been 18 years since we have passed a new levy...It is time! I want my home to go up in value because I want it to be worth something! Also, I want more people to move into our district and see how awesome our schools are! You need to find your pride and your voice will not represent me, my family, or my neighbors! Vote yes for the students in August!

Centauri

"Our homes are already over valued so the schools can take more from us."

In some cases, some of the homes in the Perkins School District are. But the large majority of homes in the school district are under-valued according to the Erie County (Ohio) Auditor's online site for tax purposes. The result of these under-valued properties are less taxes for the schools. I have studied various properties on the auditor's online site and seen properties under-valued by 30 percent or more only to be sold far above the values stated for taxes. Also I see misuse of the CAUV program for commercial properties along Ohio 250. In my opinion, the information shown for various properties contain false information and some information is omitted. The school should challenge the false information but it is easier to ask the taxpayer for more money. I feel that most of the "no" votes will come from property owners who have over-valued properties and pay more than their far share than the supporters of the school levy, most of whom have under-valued properties and do not pay their fair share of taxes.

http://erie.iviewtaxmaps.com/
Search the properties of those who support the school levy. You will find the majority of the "yes" voters have under-valued properties. Check out the properties that have the "yes" signs in their yards.

http://www.perkinslevy.com/index...
List of school levy supporters.

Centauri

My opinion is that only property owners who are affected by higher taxes should be allowed to vote. I was told that a few years ago, the school wanted an income tax to fund the schools. In that case, only those who have a job and pay federal and state income taxes should be the only ones allowed to vote. Why should voters who are not affected by tax increases be allowed to vote?

Bherrle

Centauri,

I disagree. If you are a renter, then you are paying those taxes via rent. If you are a voting age student/young adult still living at home, you are spending money at businesses in the district whose taxes would go up. You are also possibly helping your parents with household expenses. It affects everyone in some way.

What about an elderly person who has sold their home and moved in with family? They get no vote, after being a property owner all their life?

I support everyone's right to vote, yes or no.

Centauri

"I disagree. If you are a renter, then you are paying those taxes via rent."
I checked and see that you do not pay property taxes. People who pay property taxes know what percentage of taxes go to the schools. What percentage of your rent goes to the schools?

"If you are a voting age student/young adult still living at home, you are spending money at businesses in the district whose taxes would go up."
People who live outside of the school district also spend money at the businesses within the district. Some live out of state. Besides, people who have children (dependents) in school get tax credits from the federal and state government.

"What about an elderly person who has sold their home and moved in with family? They get no vote, after being a property owner all their life?"
They paid property taxes when they owned property. Is the elderly family member paying rent? What percentage goes to schools?

Many property owners and renters with dependents get several votes to pass a levy. Those with no dependents only get one vote. One property can get 6 votes and another property only gets 1 vote. Where is the fairness?

Some voters are limited to vote. A good example is when a business wants to sell liquor such as in a township. A small number of people can vote such as in a precinct. What about the other voters in the township who may want to buy liquor? They are excluded by law. They do not get to vote.

http://americanliberaltimes.com/...
Renter’s Voting Rights!

Bherrle

I agree that a renter is not "directly" paying property taxes, in a specific amount, however, do you think that the landlord is not including the cost of property taxes in the rent that is being charged to the renter?

I understand your point, I just don't agree. My basic premise is that if only landowners/property owners got to vote, then that's where all the power would reside, in a vote on any specific issue.

Centauri

How about one vote per property parcel whether a renter or property owner? Property owners only get one vote even if they own several properties.

You mentioned that renters pay school taxes by paying rent.

http://www.forrent.com/apartment...

Try to find "2605 Pioneer Trail" on the Erie County (Ohio) Auditor's online site. I am told that the address lies in Perkins Township, same as the Perkins School District. I was unable to find it. I was able to find other "Foxborough" properties nearby.

http://erie.iviewtaxmaps.com/Res...

Click on any one of the parcels. I see land and apartment buildings.

Different parcel numbers but tax is only about $45 per year for each parcel or building and not for each apartment.
57-05548.000 FOXBOROUGH COMMONS BLDG OWNERS ASSN 2014 FOXBOROUGH 456 0
57-05549.000 FOXBOROUGH COMMONS BLDG OWNERS ASSN 2012 FOXBOROUGH 456 0
57-05550.000 FOXBOROUGH COMMONS BLDG OWNERS ASSN 2016 FOXBOROUGH 456 0
57-05551.000 FOXBOROUGH COMMONS BLDG OWNERS ASSN 2018 FOXBOROUGH 456 0
57-05543.000 FOXBOROUGH COMMONS BLDG OWNERS ASSN CORP 2436 PIONEER 456 0
57-05544.000 FOXBOROUGH COMMONS BLDG OWNERS ASSN CORP 2430 PIONEER 456 0
57-05545.000 FOXBOROUGH COMMONS BLDG OWNERS ASSN CORP 2015 FOXBOROUGH 456 0
57-05546.000 FOXBOROUGH COMMONS BLDG OWNERS ASSN CORP 2424 PIONEER 456 0
57-05547.000 FOXBOROUGH COMMONS BLDG OWNERS ASSN CORP 2006 FOX RUN 456 0

The Erie County (Ohio) Auditor's office is a big joke.

Dude i Roc

Wow! How many rental units per building? Many YES levy voters housed there for sure...

Who owns this and pays so little in taxes?

Rosa

Also let's have all the people who want to pass this levy, pay more to make up for those of us who do not.

oldpirate

The last election only 30% of the registered voters voted. I think the next election will represent a more accurate feeling of the community as a whole. Until schools are funded by a better method levies are the way we have to go.I believe it is our duty to support our schools and safety services and I voted yes for the levy.

Pirate Mom

ALL citizens in this country have the right to vote. This is to prevent landowners from becoming the ruling class and lording their wishes over all who reside here. All people should vote, no matter whether they are voting with me for the levy or not.

Bherrle

Exactly Pirate Mom. That is the real reason, better stated than I did.

fifteenthgreen

KBI closes in two years, as rumored, this will all be for naught!

donutshopguy

What was the attendance of the pizza party?

How many were affiliated with the school?

How many were part of the committee to support the schools?

Did it attract anyone new?

Bherrle

DSG,

There were a few faces there I did not recognize, based on questions & conversation there seemed to be a few undecided voters there. Overall, I'd say there were about 30 people there, but I didn't count. There were not as many people there as I would have liked to have seen. Most in attendance were known supporters.

I'd have liked to have seem some opposition folks there, so that they could ask questions and discuss issues, unfortunately I don't think any attended.

Centauri

"Most in attendance were known supporters."

They went because the pizza was free. Since they are going to vote "yes", why did they bother to go? Would they have went if they had to pay for the pizza?

Bherrle

Centauri,

I will speak for myself, not other attendees, but my opinion is that many supporters feel the same as I do. Even though I am a known supporter, I went because I had questions to ask, and I wanted to be there to see what types of questions where asked, and hear the responses. I had hoped to be able to talk personally with those who are undecided or who are no votes, and get other points of view. I wanted to give my views and opinions. I wanted to network, as I am in the middle of an employment search. I also took my 16 year daughter because I wanted her to be exposed to that type of public discussion, which I felt would be a valuable experience for her.

I chose to be there Tuesday night, instead of being at my church's Vacation Bible School, where my family volunteered as helpers this week Sunday thru Thursday nights. Had I been at VBS helping, I would have also gotten fed.

Instead of questioning the motives of those who took the time to attend, why do you not question why more folks didn't attend? Why didn't any staunch "No Voters" show up to ask questions and share their POV?

Edwin Ison

This is fun to watch.
A comedy of errors by this and previous administrations.

Move money from operations and "claim" a levy to replace the moved funds is not a "building" levy. So funny to see the spin.

Then pull out the "play to pay" card.... extortion.

And to those who have such angst about people residing outside Perkins commenting, these issues generally have an effect on nearby districts.

Why do you think Gunner and board want new buildings? Bellevue, Clyde, Port Clinton etc.

Monkey see, Monkey do.

I hope the building levy passes and then the do-gooder Perkins soccer Mommy's and Daddy's can try to explain the repeated future levies to pay for all this.

This is fun :)

Remember, a YES vote is a reward for bad behavior..... will you give in?

Bherrle

Edwin Ison,

It saddens me that anyone would deem this "fun to watch." It also saddens me that there are those who live inside and outside of Perkins who only criticize, and name call, such as you are doing above. Our district is not here for your entertainment.

I don't mind comments, but make sure you have the facts, and know the issues and people involved. Do you know Dr. Gunner, do you know the board members? From where are you getting your information and basing your opinion? Do you attend Perkins board meetings? Have you spoken directly with any of the previously mentioned?

The facts are, the community was engaged long ago when strategic planning began. The community is still asked to be engaged. New buildings are needed because of the age, materials contained within, & condition of the current buildings. All of the building inspections are a matter of public record. Have you read them? There is no "Monkey see, Monkey do" going on.

The Inside Millage move was a publicly discussed issue. 3 public meetings were held. Not all agreed with it, but in the end, something had to be done to ensure there were funds available to address facility needs. The Voters chose not to this by voting down the Nov 2010 levy. The BOE had to do something. To ignore the issue only would have made it worse, and more costly. The move was a very good financial decision long-term for the district.

A yes vote is not a "reward" for anything. A yes vote says "I want to maintain the level of academics & athletics that Perkins residents have come to expect."

One more question, seeing as you are so eager to get joy from this issue and make critical comments. What are your solutions? What would your specific plan be to address the facility issues and keep the district financially solvent? Our BOE would love to hear a better plan.

fifteenthgreen

behrrle -

You sound overly confident the two new board members aren't going to ferociously contest the building of a new school along with recommending the removal of Mr. Gunner.

Bherrle

15th,

In response to your comment "You sound overly confident the two new board members aren't going to ferociously contest the building of a new school along with the removal of Mr. Gunner."

I'm not sure where you get that feeling from, but please explain? It is sounding a little to me like you are assuming that two new BOE members will be elected, replacing Mr. Chapman and Dr. Printy.

I don't assume anything about the outcome of the August Operating Levy Vote or the November BOE member election. If either men up for re-election are replaced, then the new member or members will have the chance to get fully up to speed and offer alternatives, both in terms of facilities issues and the Superintendent.

Personally, I know of no one to date who is running against them at this point, and I have no reason, at this point, to vote for anyone outside of the two (Mr. Chapman & Dr. Printy) who are up for re-election. But if other candidates surface, and if they convince me that they have better ideas regarding the current and future operation of the school district, then my vote is theirs. That said, they will have to make a pretty convincing argument to sway my vote.

fifteenthgreen

That's exactly the plan. They're confident no one will run for the position and they will sneak this thing in. Same board....same plan.

ohioredbabe

Why don't you run for the board?

Bherrle

15th,

In response to your comment "That's exactly the plan. They're confident no one will run for the position and they will sneak this thing in. Same board....same plan."

No, I don't think they are. I know I'm not. I'm expecting there to opposition candidates. I'll be surprised if there aren't.

Edwin Ison

I stand by all I've stated.

Politics entertain me, and millions of others.

I enjoy when a bully gets his just due.

One thing I do take exception with.... I have done no "name calling".

The powers that be do not "need" a new building.... they "want" a new building.

Since you didn't like my "monkey see monkey" do analogy.... how about the reason for "wanting" a new school is so as to "keep up with the Joneses".

Any one with their eyes wide open can see the truth. It saddens me the bully will probably win this because of his extortion plan.

Bherrle

Edwin Ison,

Your words were - "do-gooder Perkins soccer Mommy's and Daddy's"

Certainly not harsh, you could have said worse.

There is no analogy needed. You and I disagree. Read all of the facility inspection reports. Tour the facilities. Either significant renovation, or building new, is needed.

My eyes are wide open. There is no bully. Tell me your specific plan to deal with all the issues.

Centauri

Centauri,

Your words were - "do-gooder Perkins soccer Mommy's and Daddy's"

????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????
Where and when did I day that, Bherrle?

Did somebody hack into account again and post comments without my knowledge?

Bherrle

My bad Centauri, that was meant to be Edwin Ison. I have changed it. I was responding to him, not you.

Edwin Ison

No bully?

You haven't been around long enough, and you don't have a well rounded base of acquaintances to draw from to have a good grasp on things.

You'll look in the mirror at this phase of naivety years from now and see a fool.

It's not your fault, you just haven't lived in this area long enough to know the history.

believeit

Again, this levy is not about a new facilities. However, as stated many times previously, independent experts have concluded that new, or vastly corrected facilities are needed. Remember that middle grade students have been in "temporary" trailers for over a decade. The high school has been determined to have a variety of issues that need to be addressed. A rusted out car will still safely run, but how long should you paint over the rust?

Cross

I personally do not support the levy due to the backdoor method of funneling money from the millage and the fact the district is ignoring the wishes of the masses who have voted multiple times that we do not want a new school. I'm very unhappy with the current board, and I'm hoping they all get tossed out.

That said, I respect anyone who does support the levy, such as Ghostly Manor or Chat & Matt's and will continue to frequent those businesses as they are my neighbors and I support them, even if we do not always agree.

Centauri

"I personally do not support the levy due to the backdoor method of funneling money from the millage and the fact the district is ignoring the wishes of the masses who have voted multiple times that we do not want a new school."

Good comment. Think about having money set aside to pay a bill such as rent or a property tax bill. Take the money instead and buy a new flat screen TV. Oh no! We have no money to pay the rent! Not our fault. Somebody please help pay the rent!

Bherrle

Centauri,

I don't agree. Your comment above has one spending money on a want, not a need.

Something had to be done about funding facility issues. Those who voted in Nov 2010 chose not to do so. If you feel that the buildings don't need replaced, then you and I just disagree. You and those who from the public who participated (which was open to anyone who wanted to, no one was "selected") in strategic planning disagree. You and the BOE, and Dr. Gunner, disagree.

What would your plan be, what would you do?

I don't agree with the comment ""I personally do not support the levy due to the backdoor method of funneling money from the millage and the fact the district is ignoring the wishes of the masses who have voted multiple times that we do not want a new school."

Nothing was done backdoor. 3 public meetings were held on the issue. There has been only one building funding vote, that was Nov 2010. There have not been multiple no votes for a new building. I understand that some feel they are voting against buildings when they vote no to operating levies, but I do not agree.

Again folks, what are your specific, detailed solutions to address the issues? It is easy to be anonymously publicly critical of a BOE, of a Super. They have a very, hard thankless job.

fifteenthgreen

My plan would be to leave the schools alone. They're fine. Make better use of the upstairs at the high school and eliminate the north wing if you're concerned about safety. The industrial arts wing that was turned into the administration offices makes no sense. They could have been turned into classrooms. A fortune was put into those locker rooms and the gym is in great shape. New field house. The auditorium stinks but was remodeled a few years back and serves its purpose. The band and choral rooms could be freshened up but obviously work due to program success. Offices and library are fine. From the carpeted hallway south the building is fine. Cafeteria is fine. All built in the seventies. Don't go there and tell me otherwise. The kids and alumni love that school. In comparison to some other local schools, we have it pretty good.

Bherrle

15th,

Have you read thru the facility inspection reports? I toured the HS and MS, and read the reports. While the Health Inspector deemed there to no "immediate health risk", there are certainly long term structural, health, and safety issues that need to be addressed. Several independent studies have said that renovation would not be the right choice. If you disagree with that, that's your choice.

Where would you suggest the admin offices be put? If you eliminate the north wing, where do you find that space elsewhere? It seems you are assuming extra space exists in the high school.

fifteenthgreen

I went to school there, Bherrle. My family did and now my child does. Don't give me that independent study crap. Go back to Pennsylvania and quit trying to tell me about something I know a little more about than you. So you took the little poor me tour. Big deal. That school has been a major part of our lives. Don't tell me I'm assuming anything.

The administration could find somewhere besides moving into the actual building that you deem unsafe. What was wrong with where they were at? Past administrations didn't feel the need to move into the school. Why this one?

ohioredbabe

Fifteenthgreen
"Go back to Pennsylvania"
REALLY? You want people to leave the community because they have a different opinion than you? REALLY? I mean this in the most mature way possible YOU ARE A BULLY!

fifteenthgreen

So is the BOE and Gunner!

Bherrle

15th,

No they really aren't bullies. They are all good men. If I had grown up here, I would have been in the same buildings of which we speak. My opinion wouldn't be different. It really is a shame that you would tell someone who moved into your district, who picked it on purpose, because of it's quality, to go back from whence they came. And then openly (I mean anonymously) criticize the men who have helped to build it back up to where it is.

fifteenthgreen

So tear it down then. How many on the board and Gunner actually attended Perkins Schools?

Bherrle

I know at least one did, Dr. Printy. I know Dr. Gunner did not, and I don't think Mr. Chapman did. Not sure of the rest.

But I'm also not sure why that matters? Are we to limit our BOE and Supers to only past Perkins grads?

fifteenthgreen

Exactly my point. Why would you guys care? Tear something down that has no meaning to you.

Centauri

"I don't agree. Your comment above has one spending money on a want, not a need."

http://www.sanduskyregister.com/...
"Perkins Schools is plotting a move its board hopes will put the district in a better position for the future as it plans for a new or drastically revamped high school.

School officials will host a public hearing Wednesday about its proposal to funnel some of its tax income away from the operating fund and into the permanent improvement fund.

By moving some of that money-generating "inside millage" into permanent improvements, the district hopes to essentially set up a steady stream of funds to use for its building projects.

Transferring some millage that currently funds operating expenses would create a bigger shortfall for the general fund in the immediate future, but school officials said the move will pay off in the long run."

Money was moved from a "need" to a "want"

Bherrle

Quoting Sandusky Register language will never win me over. "Perkins Schools is plotting a move....." ??? Plotting???? Very inflammatory and irresponsible language in my mind. How about "considering", "discussing", or "planning" as alternatives to "plotting." Why did the SR use that divisive word I wonder?

I see that Donutshopguy also pointed out the use of the word "plotting" on the blog for that article.

Facility issues "need" to be addressed. They cannot be ignored. It's the BOE's job to address them. What ever direction is chosen, it has be funded. Those who voted in Nov 2010 chose not to fund the plan in place at that time with the levy that was on the ballot.

fifteenthgreen

Who cares about winning you over. You're one person who thinks he has all the answers. Visit some other schools and quit feeling as though your child is entitled. I don't feel as though mine is.

Bherrle

15th,

In response to your comment "Who cares about winning you over. You're one person who thinks he has all the answers. Visit some other schools and quit feeling as though your child is entitled. I don't feel as though mine is."

My point was that the SR is hardly a source of "non-biased" news coverage. You don't know me, so please stop the personal attacks. I'm not doing it to you.

I don't have all the answers, I sure wish I did. Why do you feel I feel my child is "entitled"?

ohioredbabe

15th & Bherrle
Both your children are entitled. They are entitled to a well rounded education in a safe environment. I fear they will loose that entitlement if the 18 teachers loose there jobs. Crowded classrooms with frazzeled teachers is not a good senerio for our children. They deserve better. They are entitled to better.

Perkins2060

Loose? Senerio? Hopefully one of the 18 teachers being laid off is one that taught you.

Centauri

"If you feel that the buildings don't need replaced, then you and I just disagree."

So you want to replace the buildings?

Bherrle

Centauri,

Do I "want" to replace the buildings? No. I think the timing stinks. People are hurting, including my family. The local economy hasn't rebounded. I'm job hunting after moving here just two years ago. We haven't taken a family vacation in over 5 years. We drive 5 year old and 8 year old cars. Right now, our income is less than our monthly expenses, and we have cut back a number of things. I could go on, but my point is not to tell our sad tale.

My point is that the timing is not the fault of the BOE or Dr. Gunner. The timing is the timing. There are very difficult decisions to be made. It's easy to criticize those making the decisions. I don't have better solutions than what have been proposed by the BOE. I don't want to pay higher taxes. But, in my opinion, based on all the reports and facts I have read, a plan "needs" to be put in place to replace the districts buildings. The inside millage move made funds available for that purpose.

This operating levy provides necessary operating funding.

fifteenthgreen

"This operating levy provides necessary operating funding"........for a new building and yes, I agree with you....save us from your "sad story". We all have a story to tell. This isn't the forum for that!

ohioredbabe

It is easy to be rude when you hide behind a screen name. Isn't it?

fifteenthgreen

Is ohioredbabe your real name?

ohioredbabe

Nope. I'll tell you mine if you tell me yours.

Bherrle

15th,

In response to your comments "This operating levy provides necessary operating funding"........for a new building and yes, I agree with you....save us from your "sad story". We all have a story to tell. This isn't the forum for that!"

I was making a point. There are those who are saying that people can't afford this. I was making the point that neither can my family, but I am for the levy.

GhostlyManor's picture
GhostlyManor

Thanks for the positive comment Cross and we, as I'm sure Chet & Matt's, appreciate your support.

Perkins2060

You are losing many customers over this. I know you don't care now, but wait until later. After the levy has passed and the yes voters move on. The no voters will always remember. Especially come time the tax bill is due. Hmmm.... pay my tax bill or go to Ghostly Manner or Chet & Matt's??? Think we'll stay in tonight. Remember Gunner and his disciples preaching about going out to eat one less time a month to pay for this??? That's money out of YOUR pocket!

A smart business owner would stay neutral. This levy will hurt you. Gunner said so himself.

donutshopguy

My concept is the school build a base central structure with wings for specials. Example: pool, band area, technology area, gym, auditorium, art area.

A cost for the base central structure. Example: $20,000,000
A separate cost per wing. Example: Pool $ 5,000,000
Band Area $ 3,000,000
Tech Area $ 4,000,000

A levy where the community had choices is possible on the local ballot. I spoke to the board of elections and they spoke to the Secretary of State. It's legal.

This proposal allows local taxpayers the opportunity to chose what they believe is best for the children. If an area like the "pool" does not pass it won't be built at this time. This proposal takes away the dictatorial control of the school board.

Free choice is an American tradition.

I have ask Mr. Gunner for this type of breakdown. He rejected my request in a previous meeting.

My guess at this time, is the superintendent and school board will be against this freedom of choice. They have spend too much money on their grand scheme to allow this. They would have to redesign their academy. They would have to admit they are wrong. It's an ego thing.

fifteenthgreen

Makes too much sense, DSG. But many feel entitled and are impatient. They must have it now or else. This is how they themselves make bad decisions in life and get into financial trouble. I'm sick of this mentality around here.

Also, even if two new members are elected to the board and oppose a new building, they'll be outvoted three to two.

Bherrle

I saw my name in there a few minutes ago 15th. "Mr. Bherrle" was changed to "many" in the second sentence. If attacking me, or other supporters, personally needs to a part of your argument, then so be it.

I believe I've disagreed with you civilly, and haven't resorted to attacking you personally.

donutshopguy

fifteenthgreen,

You are correct. If the three remaining members of the board vote to proceed with the millage switch and build the academy the new two members can't stop them. But, I believe if the vote is not 100% in favor of that option it will not happen. There is already too much division in the community and a 3 to 2 vote would blow this place up.

My alternative allows the voting public decisions in the cost and facilities offered. The voting public will ultimately decide what type and cost of education they deem necessary to support.

Well, Bherrle, RMyer, and Strong Schools what is your opinion of this proposal?

Bherrle

DSG,

I applaud you with providing an alternative plan, and I respect your opinion, but as I have previously stated, I'm not a fan of leaving the design up to the voters in that sense, in terms of being "in pieces". Now, if there were several "full design and cost" plans put to a vote, with at least one of them being a renovation option (to be fair), then I could be in favor of that. I don't know if that is legal, and it would certainly add design and planning costs.

I general, I am of the opinion that those decisions should be the boards, that's why they were elected. In the hypothetical that 2 new board members were elected, who strongly opposed building new after having the chance to get fully up to speed, I would think it would be possible that one of the remaining three may change their mind. But that is pure speculation on my part.

donutshopguy

Bherrle,

It is the responsibility of the school board to analysis the financial needs of the school system. It is then their responsibility to present those needs to the community. A public vote is taken to see if the community agrees. It is the community's final decision if they believe the need is appropriate. That's how we do it in the state of Ohio in most cases.

fifteenthgreen

Bherrle is your blog name. I can't help that. You may not think you're "attacking" someone personally, but your "opinion" at times is insulting especially when referencing another bloggers opinion. Either way, this isn't a place for the overly sensitive.

Bherrle

The fact that I state disagreement, provide fact, and my opinion, insults people, without me personally attacking them at all. But I'm overly sensitive when you directly used my blog name to say we are inpatient and want it now? Not seeing the logic there 15th.

I've stated all along you (and anyone) are entitled to your opinions. But if you are going to post it publicly, then expect someone with an opposing view to counter it.

My neighbor just reminded me a few minutes ago, if they are attacking you personally, it means they are out of facts to argue with.

fifteenthgreen

I agree with your neighbor to a point. Somehow I touched a nerve with you but that's your problem, Bherrle. You have no attachment to tearing down something that has meaning to so many generations. You, like Gunner aren't from here. I get that. Why would you care? You didn't attend those games. Those plays. Those concerts. Those PTO fairs. Those dances. The first and last day of school. Those classes with generations of teachers and students that are no longer with us. That is my point all along. It's easy for you and Gunner to tear it down. It's personal to others. Very personal. We are beating a dead horse on here. It comes down to a simple Yes or No. If the voters decide to tear it down...tear it down.

ohioredbabe

Fifteenthgreen
"Somehow I touched a nerve with you but that's your problem Bherrle."
I think the nerve you hit was the one where you told him to go back to Pennsylvania. You want to send him away from the community he moved into just because he has a different opinion than yours. And because he did not grow up here and attend your high school. You touch a nerve with me too. I did not grow up here. Should I not have a vote? Should I pack up for my home state too? Should all of us Non Perkins Home Growns get out? Our children are in Perkins Schools and we have Pirate Pride!

Perkins2060

Yes

Bherrle

15th,

You did not touch a nerve, I'm fine. Our opinions on personal attack may vary. And, I finally get where you are coming from. I understand sentimental value, I really do. I'm not from here, yes. But I am a sentimental person. I'm the one not wanting to get rid of stuff from our kids childhood, books, toys, etc. Drives my wife crazy sometimes. If renovation made financial sense, I'd be all for keeping the buildings. I just don't think the decision should be made on sentimental value alone. I agree, let's stop here.

fifteenthgreen

Thank you for seeing my point. The thought of destroying so much history actually hurts so many including the kids. New isn't always better. I get that it will eventually have to happen but not quite sure the time is right. I knew you had it in you, Bherrle. I've said that all along to you!!!

believeit

This is a new one. Now the reason for voting down the levy is for sentimental reasons. First, this levy is for operating expenses, not new facilities. That will be decided after a new board will be elected later. Second, if you were so nostalgic and had so much pride in Perkins Schools that you feel about these things, why on earth are you happy to not only watch, but openly push, for a potential demise of the district. You have gone from not trusting the board and superintendent, to teachers make too much, to the stadium is too nice, to ... whatever.

fifteenthgreen

Kind of sounds like the way the Board and Superintendent speak, doesn't it??? Never know what to believe or what you'll hear next. "Demise" Puke! Keep drinking the kool-aid, believeit!

believeit

I am neither the superintendent (as I have openly stated that I don't agree with everything that has he has done, even if I do believe he has the district's best interests in mind) or a member of the board. And if you don't think that continued failure to pass any new monies to the district will not have a detrimental effect on the district, then the only kool-aid that is being drunk is that of the no voters by you. For someone who apparently was at least one time fond of his Perkins experience to enjoy watching it struggle is sad. As I have stated previously, regardless of what you think about Gunner, the board, the students, or even tax increases in general, the cost of operating Perkins continues to increase and will not become less expensive over time. This is true for every district in Ohio as long as the funding formula remains the same.

fifteenthgreen

The district is struggling due to the misappropriation of taxpayer funds, new stadium contributions, laptop programs, legal fees, design loans, etc... If the cost keeps rising, then why does our frivolous spending?

ohioredbabe

This is a public forum. It is a place for everyone.

Perkins2060

Waaahhhhh

underthebridge

Bherrie - Just because the discussion regarding moving the millage was done publicly does not mean that the public had any chance of impacting their decision. Frankly, their decision was already made. The BOE discussed their decision publicly. The public had no chance in impacting their decision. Frankly, the facility issue is being handled the same way.

MP

I was at those meetings- which were not well attended. The room was split. People were for and against. No one, including the former super who spoke, offered a viable solution at a lower cost to the taxpayers than the boards solution. I admire the board for finding the best solution to operating issues and building issues at the lowest cost to the taxpayers.

Perhaps if DSG had gone to those meetings instead of using this forum some real change could have been made. Not saying its too late for his plan but we certainly could be in a different mode then we are at present.

fifteenthgreen

DSG has been very active including meeting personally with folks on this blog. Please read above and you'll see that he may have possibly changed his viewpoint after those meetings. Also, I believe that he has personally discussed his plan with Gunner to no avail.

MP

You're missing my point. He did NOT go to the public meetings and present an alternate plan.

Why do people not present their ideas in a public forum as our forefathers laid out for us?

underthebridge

Why? Because the BOE had made their decision. They were not seeking input. They were seeking confirmation of their decision.

Furthermore, I've been to BOE and district meetings in which the content of the meetings went in one direction and the BOE actually said something entirely different. I went to the meetings about the stadium. In the very least it was neutral about proceeding with stadium renovation and it was actually more accurate to say that the majority of the people were against it. What did the BOE say? (More or less) "Those attending the meeting were overwhelmingly in favor of renovating the stadium." I call bull (blank).

underthebridge

I was at the meetings too.

fifteenthgreen

Sandusky Register
Annie Zelm
Perkins Twp.
Nov 1, 2011

Perkins Schools is plotting a move its board hopes will put the district in a better position for the future as it plans for a new or drastically revamped high school.

School officials will host a public hearing Wednesday about its proposal to funnel some of its tax income away from the operating fund and into the permanent improvement fund.

By moving some of that money-generating "inside millage" into permanent improvements, the district hopes to essentially set up a steady stream of funds to use for its building projects.

Transferring some millage that currently funds operating expenses would create a bigger shortfall for the general fund in the immediate future, but school officials said the move will pay off in the long run.

MP

What's your point?

donutshopguy

MP,

His point is that the decision was already made prior to the public meetings.

I agree. Been to meetings with the school board and superintendent. Also have been in private meetings with the superintendent. The decisions were already made. I suggested my proposal and it was flatly rejected by the superintendent. Didn't fit his grand scheme. Asking the public is just window dressing.

I have found that addressing my ideas in public, like this forum, has been more beneficial than spending time with people that are not open to ideas that are not their own.

MP

You are quite a contradiction DSG. You fight to preserve your public vote yet you choose not to go to public meeting to present an alternative. An alternative that the BOE was begging the community for. Instead you choose this forum to present your idea?  I'd respect you a lot more if you would be a true leader. Go to the meetings.  Voice your ideas in public. Run for the board.

donutshopguy

MP,

Had my meetings with the superintendent prior to the board of education begging for ideas. He had no interest. Did you want me to confront him in a controlled environment, like a board, meeting to prove what point? The man was fixated with his dream academy.

To protect my family I will not run for the board. School personnel learned my true identity and harassed them at their work. Can you imagine what those school personnel would do to them if I was a school board member. Not going to happen.

"Voice your ideas in public" What do you think I'm doing on this blog ?

By the way, I'm not interested in your respect.

Centauri

Bherlle, I replied to your comment (Fri, 07/19/2013 - 8:51pm)

Can you post the time of the comment that I posted that you referred to? I want to make sure that my account wasn't hacked.

Bherrle

Sorry Centauri, I was responding to Edwin Ison, and got confused. I have changed it on the original post. My apologies.

Centauri

No problem, Bherrle. And keep your comments coming. I do like to see citizens being very active in their communities. We and others may or not agree but your voice is being heard. I admire your very civil comments. Good luck to you and your family. I hope that you find a decent and well paying job.

Bherrle

Thank you Centauri.

fifteenthgreen

If voters have no attachment to tearing down something that has so much meaning to so many generations, tear it down then. Many, like Gunner aren't from here. I get that. Why would you care? You didn't attend those games. Those plays. Those concerts. Those PTO fairs. Those dances. Those graduations. The first and last day of school. Those classes with generations of wonderful teachers and students that are no longer with us. That is my point all along. It's easy for some, including the Board members and Gunner to tear it down. It's personal to others. Very personal. We are all beating a dead horse on here. It comes down to a simple Yes or No. If the voters decide to tear it down...tear it down.

MP

I went to school there too. Played sports, took classes, was a class leader. Is there sentiment? Sure. But it's not a monument. It's the worst school in the state according OSFC. It makes no sense to remodel. If it were built better to begin with perhaps but there are too many band aids for too long.

fifteenthgreen

Do you really believe it's the worst school in the state? Come on!

believeit

This is a new one. Now the reason for voting down the levy is for sentimental reasons. First, this levy is for operating expenses, not new facilities. That will be decided after a new board will be elected later. Second, if you were so nostalgic and had so much pride in Perkins Schools that you feel about these things, why on earth are you happy to not only watch, but openly push, for a potential demise of the district. You have gone from not trusting the board and superintendent, to teachers make too much, to the stadium is too nice, to ... whatever.

fifteenthgreen

Kind of sounds like the Board and Superintendent, doesn't it, believeit??? Never know what to believe or what you'll hear next. "Demise" Puke! Keep drinking the kool-aid, believeit!

Centauri

"Perhaps if DSG had gone to those meetings instead of using this forum some real change could have been made."

I feel that posting comments on this news board will reach thousands of people instead of a few dozen in a room. Some people cannot go to public meetings because of a job, children or physical illness or impairment. By posting comments, thousands can read them and a few can comment. Some people are too bashful to speak up in a public meeting or too timid to post comments. For the timid ones, if I have their email address, I will post comments for them as long as the comments follow the posting guidelines.

Comments online can be very useful in addition to attending public meetings. Comments reach far more people at any time of day or night. The time of public meetings can be a factor of why more people didn't attend in addition to the other reasons that I mentioned.

MP

I'm not sure what the answer is but the amount if mis-information on these blogs prohibits the board or any public entity to recognize as plausible. The system is designed around public meetings. Perhaps that can be augmented with technology but this blogs anonminity reduces its credibility to zero.

fifteenthgreen

What's your name then, MP?

Centauri

I posted these links previously for the people to make a wise decision in voting. Does anybody have any additional links?

http://www.perkinslevy.com/
Perkins Local Schools Levy Website
Letter to Sandusky Register

http://www.perkins.k12.oh.us/pro...

http://www.perkinsschools.org/Do...
Levy Organizational Meeting Presentation
Attached is the Organizational Meeting Presentation.

EDIT Looks like maybe the school removed the last 2 links. I got the 404 error. If the school removed them, I wonder why?

donutshopguy

MP,

If this blogs credibility is zero why are you posting on it? If this blog is zero why do my children get harassed by school personnel for me posting on it? If the blogs creditability is zero why do people supporting the levy constantly post information and debate the merits with others?

MP

Why do I post? It's kinda like WWE- entertaining but not real. The real world has leaders who step forward and publicly debate not hide behind screen names. In the real world there maybe consequences for actions- like you say your family has experienced. Yet that is the system. Speak publically. Be heard. Express ideas. Debate. Elect new leaders if you choose. Your giving these blogs too much credibility.

Your idea is worthy I discussion but if this is your forum it will go no where.

Centauri

"If the blogs creditability is zero why do people supporting the levy constantly post information and debate the merits with others?"

Good comment.

To some people, only their opinions or votes matter. Some people cannot take opposing views. Often intimidation tactics are used. Vandalism and punishment are some ways the powers that be get vengeance. Those in government may make things very difficult for those who oppose. Getting a zoning or building permit, harassment from police, higher taxes and lack of service from public officials who are supposed to work for the public.

Somebody mentioned the word bully. There are many bullies who work in the public sector. They act like you should kiss their butt and make you jump through hoops, especially if you are a political activist or wrote letters to an area newspaper that opposed the views of others.

underthebridge

The school district through the BOE and the Superintendent have created an environment in which the only way to give your feedback is at the voting booth. Oh well. We'll see how that works out for them. When it doesn't, what will happen is that Gunner, the BOE, the rah-rah squad will continue to blame the community rather than examine the essential nature of their process.

Edwin Ison

Community meetings are just a way to force feed an already decided agenda.

A bully pulpit.

underthebridge

Bingo! They are not a reflection of transparency nor are they a measure of community participation in the decision.

Edwin Ison

Bherlle,

Make sure you know the scope of the word bully in my above post before you get your panties in a bunch.

Bully for you!

Bherrle

I don't wear panties Edwin.

Edwin Ison

Sure, it's a "figure of speech".

Soccer Mom seemed to bunch 'em up a bit.

Bherrle

I know, was just trying to add a little humor. I was going to say I don't wear underwear either, but that would not be true, and would have been TMI!

Edwin Ison

:)

samiam

Per believeit: "the cost of operating Perkins continues to increase and will not become less expensive over time. This is true for every district in Ohio as long as the funding formula remains the same." Then when are we going to do something about the people in Columbus who have done nothing to change the method of funding our schools??? It's been 15 years since the courts found it to be unconstitutional and yet it's the same old, same old. Until something changes we will continue to have these same conflicts/arguments/disagreements every time a levy is on the ballot. Perhaps it would be more equitable to have an income tax to support the schools? Then those that earn more can pay more. And renters who vote for levies would be directly impacted by them.

Centauri

"Perhaps it would be more equitable to have an income tax to support the schools?"

How would the income tax be figured? On the gross wages before any deductions or tax credits? After tax credits and deductions, some families that have many dependents have little or no taxes to pay.

I do believe that part of the problems are properties that were lowered well beyond their market value while some are over valued. In short, some property owners are not paying their fair share while others are paying too much. Perhaps each property within the school district should be looked at to make sure the true values of property are accurate.

believeit

All valid questions and points, but unfortunately does not fix the immediate need.

fifteenthgreen

Just what is the immediate need? The agenda changes daily.

samiam

Perhaps one reason they won't "make any decision re a new building until after the November election of school board members" is because IF the levy passes, they won't collect any of the money until at least February 2014, when the first tax bill will be due.

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