Number of teen offenders steady, but their crimes get more violent

SANDUSKY Rage. Fear. Sadness. These emotions are at the core of an increase in juveni
Sandusky Register Staff
May 24, 2010



Rage. Fear. Sadness.

These emotions are at the core of an increase in juvenile violence.

While the number of children going through the court system has stayed steady or slightly dipped, the crimes they commit are more serious in nature.

Children are selling drugs, pistol-whipping peers, and beating up their parents. Local teens also have rap sheets that include armed robberies and attempted murder.

Charges heard in Erie County Juvenile Court 2004 4,145 2005 3,825 2006 4,264 2007 4,246 2008 3,829


looking around

Its just says to me that we need to get back to the 60s when if a child got out of line they got there asses beat . I have never seen anything in my life like the crap that is going on in our time
Its a shame that we have to have sandusky police , police the hall ways as well as pirkins
its time to take a stand , if they screw up the get sent up and if the parents would use the school system the way its intended and the teacher would teach like they are getting pay for instead of the teachers using the school system for just a pay check and the parents would stop using t=it for a expensive babysitter , then who knows , things might be different .
Put the wooded paddle back in the schools and let get back to the day when they do what they are told . if they dont want to learn then send them up , and save the tax payers a load of money.
The schools are for teaching and not for making it feel like they are in jail cause you have sandusky police
There is enough crime in this city without it having to be in our schools , and if thats what these kids are using it for then they shouldnt be there ,
The kids that are honestly tring to get a education has enough to deal with , without the crackheads and the bullies and the trouble makers
lets make the schools what they should be , And thats for learning and if they dont wnat to , well then kick them out and make room in the prison system , cause no matter what you do weather you keep them in school or kick them out they are on there way
and make it easier for the
ones that really want to learn


Perhaps the answer lies in the saying "garbage in, garbage out." These children have no emotional compass to guide them and only get filled with garbage, i.e. do whatever it takes, and to hel with the consequences. They watch violence on tv, buy it/steal it in the form of video games, etc. and when they choose the violence because they think it makes them cool, out comes the garbage. Violence is not entertainment.

Putting the 'fear' of God in someone is not working, now is it? Madelyn Murray O'Hare was murdered for her money, as I recall, and she is the one who had prayer taken out of the schools. Karma? Who knows?

Unless and until we see each other as imperfect beings in an imperfect world and do unto others as we would want them to do to us, and I don't mean violence, none of us can sit in judgement of another's life choices.

Spewing hatred and venomous words against another is garbage/violence, yet we expect the children to know the difference. Children live what they learn.



You stated in your own words this following statement
"Figure that before you attempt to step with your true identity or it may be your last" Could you please humor us all and go ingto further detail on this topic and explain what you mean when you say"it may be your last"


Let's not forget that the USA is a civilized nation. Civilized nations treat people with compassion. That is why other nations look up to the USA. Education and rhabilitation is the answer.

Raoul Duke

Don't become captive to your irrational fear.


If one reads Maslow's Hierarchy of Needs, it is obvious self esteen is not present. It is developed by respect of self and respectof others, self esteen, confidence, and achievement.

It is sad to see that "Time Out" needs rehabilitated through the penal system. I do not believe in violence with beating a child. A swat on the behind to help recognize that no society can exist without rules and to belong you must follow the rules is not out of order. Too many parents today have too much outside interference with what they cannot do with a child that needs direction. Parenting is difficult
and challenging today. It generally takes a mother and a father fully engaged.


Sometimes I think this nation is too civilized. We have become a nation of bleeding hearts. Hancrack has a good point. Look at the so called youth parent(s_ in Clyde who killed a @ month old baby.


Teenagers are not held accountable for most of their actions. They blame is always pointed to someone else.


Mum of one: If education and rehabilitation were the answer, we'd be all but crime free. We keep throwing money at the problem, and the problem keeps escalating either in numbers, seriousness, or both.

Let's be realistic for a minute: When a kid throws eggs or steals hubcaps, that's a nuisance. He should be punished and made to make amends. But when a kid sets another kid on fire, tries to kill Mom or Dad, beats his illegitimate baby almost to death, terrorizes neighborhoods, or becomes the one who facilitates the drug problem for others, well, you lock him up and keep him the he11 away from civilized society.

The main reason these kids get as bad as they do isn't because they don't know better. They see families all the time that are nowhere near as dysfunctional as their own. They've just never experienced the consequences of their actions before, and so they jump to the easiest, quickest way they can find to achieve their agendas, whatever those may be.

Is it the parents' fault? Yeah, usually. But it's our fault, too, for coddling either of them. Stop giving kids back to bad parents. Stop thinking hugs and praise will cure the problem. Demand responsibility and, if you don't get it, ENFORCE responsibility.

When I was growing up not so very many years ago, problems with kids were far less serious than they are now. Of course, spanking wasn't considered all but criminal, and we didn't DRUG active children, we CHALLENGED them (and kicked them in the behind when they didn't pay attention). Consequences engenders responsibility, not begging, pleading, or cuddling.

Sadly, for some of these kids it's much too late for a spanking or a grounding. I'm sorry for them, but they represent too great a danger to others to just forgive and forget. If they're old enough to commit adult crimes, they're old enough to be punished like adults. Lengthy prison sentences for teens aren't cruel or unusual; releasing them on unsuspecting future victims is.

looking around

Of the numbers displayed, charges heard years 2004 through 2008 I would be interested how many were first time offenders vrs. repeat offenders in the revolving door court system. Also what kind of income has been derived from court fees and fines? This catch and release legal system breeds this problem.


Nutrition plays a HUGE role in behavior. Kids are being fed "food" that has been genetically modified, high-fructose corn-syruped, preserved w/ chemicals, color the point where it shouldn't even be considered food!

If you are concerned about this, please sign the petition for Healthy School Lunches at:

To watch an excellent film on the subject of food and behavior, see here:

For more info:

We CAN make a difference. Let food be thy medicine, and medicine be thy food. ~Hippocrates

impeach delamatre

the problem with these kids isn't their families or the environment... its the court system. the judge doesn't give them harsh punishments when they have done wrong, he slaps them on the hand then sends them on their way to future terrorize the community. i have seen kids commit serious offenses and then go to court and see the judge and he just says "oh don't do it again or i will send you away" then a month later they commit another offense and he says it again... how many times can you allow a kid to commit crimes and then not punish them? it doesnt matter if you mentor a kid or not... if a kid is hateful they will always be hateful no matter who tries to help them, thats been proven with the programs in society for these supposed "troubled" youth...if the general public knew the types of crimes Judge delamatre released kids on, only so they could commit the same crimes a few days, weeks, or months later, they'd vomit on themselves... judge delamatre singlehandedly creates hundreds of victims a year by releasing kids on serious crimes... maybe he should be paying to keep these facilities open since he makes so much money to let criminals continue to commit the crimes they do...


Well I think that after a certain age , which i believe is 11 or 12 these kids no the difference between right and wrong , but dont give a ****
Plain and simple if they dont care and they are old enough to know better then why should we , by like someone said , slapping them on her wrist and set back home .
I am sick of all the crap that my tax dollars are paying for . its a shame

Comon Courts judges and so forth , get with it
all you so called experts are doing is sending the messenge that well you arent 18 so you dont know any better , so I am going to cut you loose and let you do something even bigger. Thats the word you are sending out
And you parents are just as much to blame as the kids are , cause its your responsability to see to it that your children are brought up to be law binding and you arent doing anything at all except sit in front of you t.v and watching your programs
You as parents need to help with yor kids as well and if you dont and put them on the honest people in our towns its saying you dont care about your child or the city and you have no bissiness having children to begin with

hancrack me up

The most amusing comment I've seen here is jetsetter's, about the food they eat being the reason they are animal like child h00ds. HAH! Great idea, but most unlikely; although th0se energy drinks probably get them all wired more than they are already. As a teenager I had my share of BK, Pepsi & junk food & never had devious criminal th0ughts like today's scum. These walking turds would much rather spit on & rob you & set your person on fire than listen to your "advice & nurturing".
I'm sure the sch00ls have a bit to blame as well- not because of the education process, but that they were so gung-h0 on pushing ritalin on every antsie kid in class. These ritalin kids are now adults & here we have their uncivilized knife wielding offspring. Soulless criminals.
I have no sympathy. A friend of mine was beaten & left for dead by two of them that got 18 dollars from his pocket. He was in a coma for months & one of the 15 year old thugs that did it attacked a deputy after "it" was busted. They rolled their eyes & grinned their way through the court hearing. That's h0w they are.
They don't want reform. They don't like "snitches". They see it as trendy to be imprisoned. They feel we owe them, so literally, ANYTHING goes, including not thinking twice about murdering your GOOD kid or mine for their sneakers.
The only way to change them is threaten them & broadcast the harsh punishment. T.V stations are required a certain amount of public service time. Chain these thugs to a wall like the monsters they are & force them to listen to etiquette tapes 24/7 & videotape it & run it on the BET so all will be sure to see what awaits them. Dress them in pink humiliating adult diapers & parade them through the sch00ls & give them a ch0ice: are you going to cooperate & be respectable human beings or are you going to not get your bread, water & vitamin today?
When the parents stick up for them & blame "da system" & "da man" & "opression" & "bein' disrespected", the parent(grown baby mama) sh0uld also be incarcerated & forced to take parenting & etiquette classes & FINED.
The only time there is remorse is when a fellow thug gets caught or killed by law enforcement. THEN it's cruelty to these "poor children". Let them rot like the rot they are- no privileges, no sugar, bright light 24/7, no visitors, no rap music & definately no TV unless it's closed circuit educational programming. (No BET or ignorant wrestling).


Hey Sandusky! He's Back! Less then three years after committing murder in your community he is free!

swiss family

I think that so many people have hit on our problems that got us here. First of all we have too many "bleeding hearts" who believe that these criminals need love and understanding through therapy.... WRONG we have tried that all of this time, and they taunt us with their revenge. we really need to change a lot of the system.. because it is the entire system that is creating this
we need to find a different route of making babies a career choice.. too many girls know that the more illegitimate kids they have, the better we treat them.. we supply them with medical free food, housing, diapers, child care utilities.. EVERYTHING.. so they keep having more kids to increase their lifestyle.. normally these kids get little attention so they grow up unsupervised and wild. creating another generation of criminals.. we need to be real and say that we will support one child, of theirs, and the Mother must work and be drug tested to get this assistance.. any additional kids on her part will be taken away.. that way if we are going to pay to raise them, I would prefer that they NOT be raised by this not qualified mother.
next we need to lower the legal age for crimes to be about 11.. usually kids at that age know right from wrong, and just taunt us, and do as they please as long as they are underage.. there have even been cases where an adult wants another adult taken out , but knowing that if they , themselves do it, they will be in prison forever, so they pay a kid to do it, and the kid gladly obliges.. if he gets caught it is only a minor offense because of his age, he has made allot of money , and the objective was achieved..this is wrong.
we also need to reinstate punishment..we almost need to go back to the stockades again.. Part of a punishment should include facing the people who you threatened.. but I know of kids who commit big crimes, and THEY GET TO CHOOSE WHAT THEY WANT TO DO FOR COMMUNIYTY SERVICE...UNACCEPTABLE.. put them downtown .. and let everyone who wants to see them and criticize them.. shame them as the criminals that they are
if a kid can't stay out of trouble.. send them to prison.. the big boys will take care of them.. and even if they don't go, there is always the threat that we could send them.. and that could act as a deterrent
please when the newspaper lists the school menu's in the paper.. please list what the inmates are getting as well.. to see if they are eating better than the majority of taxpayers in this economy.. and see if crime actually pays.. and if it does.. lets stop it now>>

Free Speaker

To Swiss Family- You got it right dog. The liberals we have had in the school system and courts have really messed up two generations. They try and try to help, to counsel, to feed em, to give them breaks over and over again but to no avail. One must acknowledge that the system is not working. It's time to let the pendulum swing back to when discipline was allowed both in school and at home. It's time to cut off federal and state assistance to females who have more than one child out of wedlock---let the families take care of the extra child or children like they should in the first place. The juvenile court IS very liberal and easy going in it's thinking when handing out punishment for minor and major infractions even to repeat offenders. The court does not hold the parent accountable for anything except showing up to hearings. It's a mantra that the child is the only responsible party for the violation rather than the parent who does not supervise their child in the late evenings. What the "h" should we do as citizens to get these bleeding hearts out of positions that are messing our kids up? We need to be firm in our convictions and start writing letters objecting to their way of thinking. Vote for tough judges and keep the pressure up to get rid of liberal staff. Vote for school board members who want to get discipline back into the shools. Vote for election representatives who want to make it tough for "repeat offenders" to get assistance after their "first mistake". I could go on and on but Swiss Family is on the right track and I agee with their thinking.


Yes!! absolutely, throw away the PC bull$H!t handbook and TAKE BACK OUR STREETS!!.. The baby mommas- sterilize them AND take away all their assistance when they cannot control or teach their off spring proper. Take all the bad kids, current and future criminals and sterilize them, so they won't EVER add to the over popluated status. If that doesn't work, ship them to Haiti or some other remote area of world and drop them off. LET THEM fend for themselves.

To ALL you bleeding hearts, I dare you idiots to put your money where your mouths are,,, why don't you take these scumwads into your home and give them full reign. Hmmmm?


These kids all have minds of their own and at some point they definately know right from wrong regardless of what kind of environment they grow up in, they also have freedom of chose...they CHOOSE to do what they want, where they want and to whom they want. They CHOOSE to break the law. There are no role models in society anymore for these kids to want to emulate other than thugs. They need to be made responsible for their actions instead of patted on the head and told not to do it anymore.


bobaluey/Hancrack-Wow excellent points. I would rather see my tax money going to build more prisons than to welfare so they and their parents can eat better than I can. Remember they come from nothing so welfare is great to these people and not all people on welfare have criminal kids but the majority do. The parents have no ambition in life and so the kids do not either. Start throwing away the key at an early age. like a previous post if rehabilitation worked than we should be dam near crime free. but of course when a homeowner catches on of these "things" vandalizing their property and instills street justice the parents cry and try to sue. Mandatory birth control for women (once they develope a shot for men) on taxpayer assistance would start to curb this society burden epidemic that we have going on.


Okay lets blame the unruly children. GOOD.
Let's blame the parents(who in alot of cases are just kids themselves). GREAT.
Lets blame all rap. Forget rock, r&b, pop, country, these genres have no poor messages or imagery. SURE.
Telveision shows-blame the parents for not regulating- lets not hold the station putting forth the smut and glorifying it. PLAY NICE NOW.
Lets refer to these children as "it" cause thats positive. REALLY.
Lets look at stats shall we. Since morning prayer and open Christianity in schools and other public forums has waned or been banned the increase in crime and youth related crime has gone up. These parents and subsequently these children have no HOPE, TRUTH, or UNENDING LOVE to fall back on when things get a little tough. HMMMMMMMMMM.
Maybe we need to overhaul the "system" and head back to what this country was founded on the BIBLE. Don't believe look it up. googleit dogpile it bing it oldschool crack open an encyclopedia. It's there compare the original documents with the Bible and you will see where we were founded. As we have continually slipped furhter and further from this foundation we have gone further andfurther into degradation and self service and evil behavior(any evil behavior no just crime).
So, maybe a return or better a revival of the nation is needed more now than the Great Awakening. maybe we can start the Great Reawakening. Try it I promise after a year of earnestly seeking God and His divine will for us this country would be in much better shape. What do we have to lose?

Kottage Kat

Good points. And a big AMEN.

swiss family

jdn96............what you say is partially true, but I think it might just be a coincidence, yes, they rise in crime and the degree and severity of those crimes has risen proportionally with the decline of displaying religious recital in our schools.. but I think that the bigger change is that we have made it so no one is responsible for their actions, anymore, and everyone seems to be on the look out for their own benefits.

it used to be, long ago, where there was some logic and sense in the world, that in the winter, if you slipped and fell on your neighbors slippery sidewalk, after they shoveled it as clean as they could, you got up, brushed yourself off, laughed a little and went on... Sadly today, the first thing that happens is that they play it up as big as possible...lay there and call 911 on their cell phones, and get taken to a hospital, not really to see if they are alright, but to help when they can get a lawyer, to sue someone..
where has the logic gone where we all know that it is winter, and winter is cold and sometimes icy, and sometimes no matter haw hard you try to prevent it, sidewalks will become icy, and people will fall..???

we have become too saturated with lawyers and the "need " to try to get something for nothing..Plus we , at the same time have decided that"we" don't have to be responsible for OUR actions.. every convict, and criminal seems to think if they tell the courts that they had a sad childhood, somehow they are entitled to spend the rest of their lives , destroying the lives of others.. and somehow we allow this to happen over and over..

If you think that there is a direct relationship between crime increasing, and the lack of religion.. then please remember the recent past of the biggest religion in the world.. Catholicism...they are indoctrinated with God, and sin, and Good and evil, and saints and sinners etc, and yet they were creating the a seemingly endless trunk of evil, having their leaders, the ones who passed themselves off as being the closest relationship with all that is good and Holy, the ones who were displaying the most heinous crimes against children

so, although I do agree with you somewhat, I think if you look deeper you will see that it might just be coincidental that the "Good Book"was removed from schools at the same time that crime increased..


"Ex-teacher found guilty of sex with student", "Clyde man charged with child murder", "Tiger Woods has multiple affairs", "Baseball, steroids, records with asteriks and Hall of Fame", "Let's bomb the world", "NASA on cocaine", "15,000,000 unemployed (and counting", "New Orleans goes without aid", on and on and on.....



Show me a rotten kid, I'll show you rotten parents, or no parents.


The community has created a city of enablers. Teenagers do not want to work for anything, they want a handout.


Why wouldn't kids become more violent, They are constantly exposed to violence via video games, and on TV. All night time dramas are based on violence and crime. Kids are not raised innocent at heart anymore, by time they are 18 they a desensitized to the heart breaking pain and reality due to the media having glamorized everything. They don't see the results of their actions and see it as only a way to deal with their problems is by eliminating it instead of finding ways to solve rationally!!

duh goat

spare the rod spoil the child,young people run the parents now days,the schools blame the parents now days. CATCH 22 I'm old school,forgive me.


Once again and as always, it all boils down to the Welfare System in America! IF the government "helped out temporarily" when a real need arose instead of letting people make a CAREER of sapping the life out of the taxpayer, youngsters would go out and get a paying job to help the household along instead of stealing what they want. Nothing has a value if it is FREE. They've lived FREE all their lives and so has mommy and daddy and grandparents and aunts and uncles and so LIFE itself has no real value. Time has no value. Money has no value. And they are not robbing for the money--it's just for the experience. Their life is a useless mess with no value. Nothing matters!

Jetsetter says nutrition plays a big role. Yes it does! But you cannot blame the schools, for heaven sakes! That should be only 5 light meals a week, IF THE PARENTS WOULD BE PARENTS AND THE GOVERNMENT WOULD STOP THE HANDOUTS OF TAXPAYER DOLLARS for BREAKFAST (because parents don't want to get up that early) and lunch and I am rally surprised the schools haven't been mandated to provide DINNER also! Almost everyone of these children who get free breakfast and lunch at school ALSO are getting foodstamps (or that goofy creditcard thing). No wonder they are all OBESE! How much FOOD can one person eat in one day? AND THEY GET FED ALL SUMMER LONG ALSO!! Yes, most prepared food is JUNK! SO WHY IS IT THAT IS WHAT MOST PEOPLE ON WELFARE ARE CHOOSING TO EAT? Each is responsible for what is put into one own's mouth (and as a parent you have an obligation to watch what goes into your youngster's mouth as well as what comes out of it!)

We do need to put the BIBLE back into our children and prayer back into our schools! Prayer really does make a difference! Just ask anybody who has had a desperate need fulfilled through prayer! Unfortunately, no one knows HOW to pray anymore, or even what to pray for! They need to read the BIBLE to be able to "hear" from their FATHER. The BIBLE has all the answers to all our problems. It's just that our Government wants to be the answer to everything--it makes us an excellent country, you know! Not till we overhaul our entire government will things in this country ever get better. IT HAS BEEN SAID WHEN THE GOVERNMENT ROBS PETER TO PAY PAUL, YOU NEVER HEAR PAUL COMPLAINING AND PAUL IS THE ONLY ONE IN SUPPORT OF THE "FREE" HANDOUTS! Nothing of value is FREE! It is time all of us Peters stood up and complained loudly--with our VOTE!! It is the squeaky wheel that gets oiled!


Forced religion is the answer?

Which religion?

Which denomination?

Who qualifies?

Who is approved?

Our Constitution encourages this?

How many times is God spoken of in the Constitution?


Welfare must have a cap put on it. I have said before 3 years max of collecting assistance. If you can not get yourself together in 3 years sorry game over. No more living off the taxpayers. One can easily complete a skilled trade or associates degree within that time frame, especially if everything is paid for by the taxpayers. As stated before mandatory birth control for anyone on taxpayer assistance needs to be given. You are on assistance because you cannot afford to take care of yourself let alone a new baby.


RE: Megalomania

Forced religion isn't what Quicksnad was saying at all. Read more carefully and you'd see that. The suggestion is to allow our students who want to PRAY OPENLY in school to do so without penalty. In 1963 a law was passed banning OPEN PRAYER and the reading of the HOLY BIBLE not any religious material but the HOLY BIBLE and only the HOLY BIBLE from being read. Talk about FORCED RELIGION. You tell why that one religious book is banned but other relgions could bring in their "bible" and open read under religious fredom. Also let's add to the mix that these same students who would read the HOLY BIBLE openly in school are forced to listen to tolerance speeches and lessons of homosexuality and promiscuity(sex ed/safe sex) as being acceptable in society. As for your which religion denomination questions any but Christianity are allowed due to religous tolerance for these "religions". Show me anywhere I DARE YOU where any religion/religious entity other that Christian(meaning catholic or protestant denominations) were told that their "bible" isn't allowed to be opened in public school. You can't. ALso your God isn't the constitution on that you are correct but how about the document that set this country free? You ever notice that the freedom giving document the Declaration of Independence has GOD in it. The belief that in God's infinite wisdom and grace we were all CREATED(evolution my foot) equal and thus have certain rights by HIS plan. This country was founded on principles from GOD'S word the HOLY BIBLE. Do some research and you'll see I'm right. Prior to the Bible and Prayer being banned from public school in 1963 "teen crime and pregnancy" were extremely low, since that decision its been on the rise until the last 5-6 years when instead of dealing with the source of the problem we decided to punish children who haven't been taught how to behave in society. 11-12 year old kids are being tried as ADULTS for crimes adults have shown them are cool and fun(video games television shows etc.)

and FORMERSANTOWN yes to a cap!!!!!!!!!!!!!


The following quote has been taken from:
Wealth Accumulation of Black and White Families: The Empirical Evidence
Henry S. Terrell
The Journal of Finance, Vol. 26, No. 2, Papers and Proceedings of the Twenty-Ninth Annual Meeting of the American Finance Association Detroit, Michigan December 28-30, 1970 (May, 1971), pp. 363-377
(article consists of 15 pages)
Published by: Blackwell Publishing for the American Finance Association
Stable URL:
I have posted this for all those who believe to hold emperical evidence as to why so children in the area are "bad." I offer this as a place to start your research.
"considerable amounts of recent research activity have focused recently on the economic status of the black minority population in the United States. In general these studies have considered income and earnings as the relevant variables, primarily because data flow magnitudes and have been readily available. Flow magnitudes such as income and earnings do not, however,provide a complete picture of the relative wealth positions of black family units. Wealth accumulation is very important in assessing economic status and economic decisions, such as retirement and the acquisition of human capital, depend on wealth accumulation."
In short, poverty is a self sustaining machine.
In fact, if there is one statistic that captures the persistence of racial inequality in the United States, it is net worth. Overall, the typical white family enjoys a net worth that is more than seven times that of its black counterpart. (Latinos--a very diverse group--overall fare slightly better than African-Americans but still fall far short of whites.)
These are the facts ladies and gentlemen, and the legacy of racism. I do not intend to enable poor decision making, rather, to create an atmosphere of understanding.

hancrack me up

Dateline Toledo, Oh...
15 year old black male rapes 26 year old ATISIC woman in BROAD DAYLIGHT WITH TRAFFIC GOING BY NEAR THE SIDEWALK ON A BUSY STEET. The sophomore age rapist gave a full confession & his reason was because "he wanted some".

hancrack me up

(sp) autistic


Is "praying openly" more effective than a silent prayer?


Pray Openly is not a reference to praying OUT LOUD. Pray openly means being allowed to say a prayer withnin the confines of school property without fear of punishment. Praying for your food or for a test which may seem trivial to some but is important to others without worry that because the student next to you or the teacher may be offended at your prayer. Now I know that prayer and religion isn't for everyone and by no means am I saying it should be the beginning of the day over the morning announcements or end of the day before they leave. Im not saying it should be forced upon students that don't want to participate but it should be allowed without punishment to those who want to pray Jesus in public schools and on public property. Forced religion of any denomination christian buddhist muslim etc. is wrong. If it is what you want to practice fine and you should be allowed to practice it openly without fear of retaliation or punishment. Our country was founded partly because those seeking religious freedom wanted to be able to worship without fear of punishment. It seems that these days only one religion is asked to be silent and tolerant and that is Christianity.

Mr. Hat

Quicksand wrote on Jan. 19, 6:14 PM: "It is time all of us Peters stood up..." Great choice of words, Quicksand! That was even funnier than "unit holders" in the Cedar Fair threads. Keep those comments coming, Sandusky! This is better than Comedy Central!

As for these criminal children, they all get out of the DH at some point. Should we not try to rehabilitate them before turning them loose?

They aren't criminals because they're poor; we all know plenty of poor people who are decent and hard-working. They aren't criminals because they eat the wrong food; if that were the case, every obese person would be in prison.

Blame the parents? There are good parents with bad kids, and bad parents with good kids. Movies? I've seen John Wayne and Clint Eastwood kill about a thousand people in their pictures over the years. Yet, I'm not a criminal. Video games? I've "killed" hundreds of enemies in games. Yet, I'm not a criminal. You want to know who to blame? Lean in close and try to wrap your brain around this foreign concept. THE PUNKS WHO ACTUALLY COMMIT THE CRIMES!

The sooner we stop assigning blame to society, the media, parents, schools, and peer pressure, the sooner children will realize that they rise or fall by their OWN efforts. They will discover that no matter how bad their situation, they can improve it with positive, constructive action.

No disrespect to the religious among us, but you can't throw a seed on the ground and pray to God that it grows. YOU have to do the work.


not to make to big a point but Mr Hat are you saying that God if He wanted to answer my prayer that a seed thrown on stone and no dirt whatsoever wouldn't grow. Are you limiting God's power? Just wondering. Not offended just curious.

And I agree games movies music etc aren't to blame fully but at same time they do nothing to solve the problem. A label of E E10 T M X doesn't stop kids from obtaing the game. Parents older siblings older friends etc will buy it for them. Parents are to blame some because they haven't stood up for their rights as parents to discipline(not abuse but discipline) tehir children according to how they see fit. Children are taught at an early age that if mommy or daddy spank too much you that you should tell someone. One spank is too m uch to a child who doesn't want to be reprimanded. and these are the parents that lose their children while others see story about 2 month old in clyde(not presuming guilt on any party) but a child in that house had be seen for bruise or broken ribs and still the child remained with the family. plus another was allowed in the house. the system that "protects our children" is extremely flawed and extremely open to personal interpretation of a situation. Crime by teens increased as parental influence was taken away by divorces, laws preventing child discipline in home, and fear of losing a child for a spanking. Power has been placed to heavily in a childs hand and forgiveness is extended to often to those who have proven time and time again that they don't deserve it. accidents happen and i believe in a second chance people can and do change but three four five six times makes a pattern and shouldn't be rewarded by more and more chances to make right before making another mistake.


I agree with Mr Hat. Where are the parents in all this? What happened to repsect? I do not enjoy being called a because a group of kids walks down the middle of the street in front of my car because they feel like it at 3 am on a school night.


How does a school system punish a kid for saying a private prayer before food or a test?

It is impossible for any institution to legislate against any private prayer.


re: mega

while attending high school(and i wont say which one) in the 90's I recieved 2 days of detention because i said a prayer during lunch for my food. I said the prayer out loud not loudly but out loud. A student near me felt it necessary to report it to the teacher in charge of the cafeteria and because I prayed i was given detention. being a hot headed teen at the time i decided to repeat the action while in said detention and was subsequently suspended 3 days for "disrepectful behavior". The prayer was for me and me alone and was asking for my temper to be placed in check because what i honestly wanted to do was cuss the teachers out. I was punished twice for praying out loud while withnin the confines of high school. Also Ill repeat that in 1963 it was made illegal for the Holy bible to be read not out aloud only but read period in public schools as well as praying. Don't believe me look up banning prayer and Bible in public schools on


Students may pray in school as long as it is not coercive or disruptive.

Seems detention was for behavior other than praying...

Is a silent prayer not as effective as a noisy prayer?

Why do some Christians love to play the myrtyr?


"nothing in the Constitution ... prohibits any public school student from voluntarily praying at any time before, during, or after the school day,"

Santa Fe, 530 U.S. at 313

Don't believe all the propoganda fed by religious zealots regarding school prayer. It is an agenda to try and create a state sponsored religion.

Prayer in public schools is protected speech, protected by the Constitution and upheld by numerous court rulings.


Another future Denzel Washington showing his character!


You know, I went to SHS and graduated mid-70's and seem to remember that there was a Bible study group or Christian fellowship that met after school, the name of it escapes me, and there was also a morning prayer at the flagpole out front. Can anyone out there refresh/correct my memory?


Probably FCA-Fellowship of Christian Athletes. Not sure about now, but this group used to be able to function freely in public schools. Also, the prayer was also allowed in the 70's. The Good Ole Days, as I call them!

Kottage Kat

You are allowed to carry a Bible in school, no law agaist having one. You can read it quietly. I believe the use of corporate prayer is not allowed and how sad. Perhaps if kids today had to look at 10 Thou shall nots, something might penetrate those remote controls they have for brains.


not trying to play mArtyr. also detention was for prayer not other behavior never had any other detentions before or after that. not asking for anyone to feel sorry for me or to feel outraged for me. It happened and I'm no worse the wear for it. I hodl no grudge or ill feelings toward the teacher or student in fact it helped me define who I was in Christ.I'm not lobbying for prayer in school to be made a have to or even a part of the day, rather I'm saying it shouldn't be punished. My intial dentention was uncalled for my subsequent response while serving that detention was due to lack of maturity and uncalled for. The second prayer was done more out of spite and I can admit it. I shouldn't have done the second one rather I should have addressed the issue in front of the school board. also since starting this i have read the ruling banning public prayer and Bible reading in public schools and buildings and I was incorrect on the carrying of a Bible. Prayer however is a banned during operating hours but is allowed on premises after school in gatherings specifically for it or before school like those mentioned by big_d.

and as for agendas really do we want to go down that road. really. every group out there has an agenda otherwise they wouldn't have a group. Christians do, agnostics do, democrats do, republicans do, homosexuals do, womens lib do, unions do, etc. Thats partly why things like the healt bill never get done is because every group only wants to villify their opposing group rather than sitting down and discussing things like the rational intellegent beings we are.