Republican Party seems as divided, angry as ever

The Republican Party seems as divided and angry as ever.
Associated Press
Jan 7, 2013

 

Infighting has penetrated the highest levels of the House GOP leadership. Long-standing geographic tensions have increased, pitting endangered Northeastern Republicans against their colleagues from other parts of the country. Enraged tea party leaders are threatening to knock off dozens of Republicans who supported a measure that raised taxes on the nation's highest earners.

"People are mad as hell. I'm right there with them," Amy Kremer, chairman of the Tea Party Express, said late last week, declaring that she has "no confidence" in the party her members typically support. Her remarks came after GOP lawmakers agreed to higher taxes but no broad spending cuts as part of a deal to avert the "fiscal cliff."

"Anybody that voted 'yes' in the House should be concerned" about primary challenges in 2014, she said.

At the same time, one of the GOP's most popular voices, New Jersey Gov. Chris Christie, blasted his party's "toxic internal politics" after House Republicans initially declined to approve disaster relief for victims of Superstorm Sandy. He said it was "disgusting to watch" their actions and he faulted the GOP's most powerful elected official, House Speaker John Boehner, R-Ohio.

The GOP's internal struggles to figure out what it wants to be were painfully exposed after Mitt Romney's loss to President Barack Obama on Nov. 6, but they have exploded in recent days. The fallout could extend well beyond the party's ability to win policy battles on Capitol Hill. It could hamper Republicans as they examine how to regroup and attract new voters after a disheartening election season.

To a greater degree than the Democrats, the Republican Party has struggled with internal divisions for the past few years. But these latest clashes have seemed especially public and vicious.

"It's disappointing to see infighting in the party," said Ryan Williams, a Republican operative and former Romney aide. "It doesn't make us look like we're in a position to challenge the president and hold him accountable to the promises he made."

What's largely causing the dissension? A lack of a clear GOP leader with a single vision for the party.

Republicans haven't had a consistent standard-bearer since President George W. Bush left office in 2008 with the nation on the edge of a financial collapse. His departure, along with widespread economic concerns, gave rise to a tea party movement that infused the GOP's conservative base with energy. The tea party is credited with broad Republican gains in the 2010 congressional elections, but it's also blamed for the rising tension between the pragmatic and ideological wings of the party — discord that festers still.

It was much the same for Democrats in the late 1980s before Bill Clinton emerged to win the White House and shift his party to the political center.

2012 presidential nominee Romney never fully captured the hearts of his party's most passionate voters. But his tenure atop the party was short-lived; since Election Day, he's disappeared from the political world.

Those Republican leaders who remain engaged — Christie, Boehner, Senate Minority Leader Mitch McConnell of Kentucky and Republican National Committee Chairman Reince Priebus — are showing little sign of coming together.

Those on the GOP's deep bench of potential 2016 presidential contenders, including Florida Sen. Marco Rubio, Wisconsin Rep. Paul Ryan, and Louisiana Gov. Bobby Jindal, have begun staking out their own, sometimes conflicting ideas for the party.

Over the short term at least, the party's divisions probably will continue to be exposed.

Obama has outlined a second-term agenda focused on immigration and gun control; those are issues that would test Republican solidarity even in good times. Deep splits already exist between Republican pragmatists and the conservative base, who oppose any restrictions on guns or allowances for illegal immigrants.

It's unclear whether Obama can exploit the GOP fissures or whether the Republican dysfunction will hamper him. With Boehner unable to control his fractured caucus, the White House is left wondering how to deal with the House on any divisive issue.

Fiscal issues aren't going away. The federal government reached its borrowing limit last week, so Congress has about two months or three months to raise the debt ceiling or risk a default on federal debt. Massive defense and domestic spending cuts are set to take effect in late February. By late March, the current spending plan will end, raising the possibility of a government shutdown.

Frustrated conservative activists and GOP insiders hope that the continued focus on fiscal matters will help unite the factions as the party pushes for deep spending cuts. That fight also may highlight Democratic divisions because the party's liberal wing vehemently opposes any changes to Social Security or Medicare

"Whenever you lose the White House, the party's going to have ups and downs," said Republican strategist Ron Kaufman. "My guess is when the spending issues come up again, the Democrats' warts will start to show as well."

The GOP's fissures go beyond positions on issues. They also are geographical.

Once a strong voice in the party, moderate Republicans across the Northeast are nearly extinct. Many of those who remain were frustrated in recent days when Boehner temporarily blocked a vote on a disaster relief bill.

Rep. Peter King, R-N.Y., said campaign donors in the Northeast who give the GOP after the slight "should have their head examined."

Boehner, who just won a second term as speaker, quickly scheduled a vote on a narrower measure for Friday after the new Congress convened, and it rushed out a $9.7 billion measure to help pay flood insurance claims.

Weary Republican strategists are trying to be hopeful about the GOP's path ahead, and liken the current situation to party's struggles after Obama's 2008 election. At the time, some pundits questioned the viability of the Republican Party. But it came roaring back two years later, thanks largely to the tea party.

"If we have learned anything from the fiscal cliff fiasco, conservatives discovered we need to stand firm, and stand together, on our principles from beginning to end," said Republican strategist Alice Stewart. "It's frustrating to see the GOP drop the ball and turn a position of true compromise into total surrender. The Democrats succeeded in their strategy of divide and conquer."

 

Comments

OMG.LOL.WT_

A POX ON THEM ALL- Democrat or republican

Licorice Schtick

The Republicans' style of "negotiating" is to tell you what they're gonna take, and tell what you're gonna get, which is only what you don't want.

There is no win-win with Republicans because a happy opponent makes them unhappy.

WiredMamba666

Parties are fun, but I hate politics.

Taxed Enough Already

lol I love the "angry" part. ROFL

Dr. Information

Liberal Sandumy Rejectar at it again.

rottnrog

The tea party will lead to the death of the republican party !!!

Horace Mann

Where do I donate?

Licorice Schtick

Pretty much.

There was a broad consensus that Romney had the best chance, but he had to paint himself into a wing nut corner to win the nomination.

The Republican Party leadership deluded themselves into thinking they could win, and needed to believe it to keep the contributions coming. The delusion continues as they explain away their loss with every convoluted reason but the correct one - that despite having their very own Faux News TV propaganda channel, their platform just ain't convincing the moderate "swing" voters, who perceive it as too extreme.

He who holds the center wins. Republican moderates know this and are going crazy trying to figure out how to pry the agenda away from the wing nuts, but the primary system leaves the Tea Party calling the tunes.

Contrary to the wingnuts' contention that the Democrats are a bunch of commies, the prevailing view of The Voters, as evidenced by the last election results, is that the Democrats are more reasonable than the Republicans, or at least the extremist who are pulling their strings.

KnuckleDragger

Kinda like the far left has made the democrat party irrelavent, huh?

shucks

I hope they're gone soon. They are planning more trouble.

John Harville

Unfortunately, today's Rasmussen poll shows only 8% of voters now identify themselves as members of the TEA Party - down from 24% in 2010. Soon to go the way of the Dodo Bird?

goofus

I know the left hates history, but the Tea Party was a direct result of the Barry Soetero TARP policy and the stimulus. Doesn't declared memberships in the democratic and republican fluctuate up and down over time and political whims? Keep wishing on your star!!

There you go again

I believe our divider-in-chief has preyed on the House since the fiscal cliff debacle began to haunt us. He is really good at manipulating people and facts to create sides (ie., women, Hispanics, gays/lesbians, rich/poor). It is Mr. Obama's plan....and he is good at undermining people!

goofus

Keep dreaming leftists, what you have is a simple little spat between the country club republicans and the conservatives. Alittle hint, the conservatives and the tea party will win out!!!!!

shucks

It's time for the GOP to disappear.

They are hurting the USA.

goofus

So it has come to this, the elimination of the other political party to only allow the democratic party, sounds like communism to me!!!

shucks

Goofus,doofus
How about another party? A party that cares about the State of the Union rather than their petty, selfish, little selves?
Does that sound like communism ?

goofus

Please explain to me how the republicans do not care about this country, sources and not opinion would help!!!

shucks

.

John Harville

Just so you know, there were other parties in the ELECTED Soviet. If there is elimination, it is the Tea Party - which has less than 30% of the membership it had only two years ago, according to today's Rasmussen poll release. Awww.

John Harville

Goofus... to which leftists to you refer? The great majority of Democrats are right-leaning moderates who recognize the individual responsibility to provide for the operation of the country for the greater good of We The People; that we who benefit from the great prosperity of this country (you're communicating on a computer, after all) have a responsibility to proved for those who don't benefit. Hint: It's Biblical.

goofus

Huh, right leaning moderates? I fail to see where, the jacksonian democrats have now been incorporated into the progressive wings. You sir will have to prove the existence of JFK style democrats.

Ask not what your country can do for you
but what you can do for the country

John Harville

Goofus! THANK YOU!!! You chose the ONE Democrat who lived and governed by the Right-leaning Biblical philosphy to which I referred "To those who much is given, much will be expected." President Obama leans to the right in his philosphies... and other Democrats with him: Affordable Health Care for all is a very Kennedy philosophy - unlike the Medicare Advantage (donut hole) unfunded program put forth by Republicans to enrich the insurance companies and make health care more expensive for senior citizens. "...what you can do for your country" refers to making the American Dream available broadly and more deeply.
But you know that don't you... as much as it galls you.

goofus

How can ordinary John Does make the American Dream available? They must find it within themselves to better their lot in life. I take it you actually have JFK's original explanation of his quote and not just opining!!! How can a progressive ever lean to the right. Besides running rum, not every Kennedy had the right solution.

shucks

.

John Harville

Kennedy never said why he chose those words without attribruting them to an original speaker/writer since its origin can be found in Greek literature. Yes. I know how his intent was interpreted. I know the effect it had on youth when it was spoken and the inspiration it is still today. We joined the Peace Corps, VISTA, and the Kennedy brothers were the inspiration for Head Start - which is one of the many ways John Doe makes The American Dream available to Americans all along the Conservative/Progressive spectrum. Stop hating. Did you hear Kennedy deliver his speech?

CAST THE FIRST STONE

wow the ap had a anti republican story...what news is that.same old..change the name to the obama times

Horace Mann

Calling the SR "liberal" is absurd.

This is an example of how the right wing is running the GOP into oblivion. "You're either with us or against us." You need to be on the far right on EVERY issue - lockstep - or they call you a commie. They call objective reporting "liberal" (in the pejorative sense) or even "leftist," because they can't hold up to truthful scrutiny.

rickross2

During the most recent "Between the Lines" interview, Westerhold had a large pic of....thats right, Obama. It took up half of his bulletin board. But I'm sure that has nothing to do with his personal views.

CAST THE FIRST STONE

true statement..you either want to tax and spend or you dont. There is no middle ground anymoreI have always been honest on taxes etc.. no more i have to protect mine at all cost.. no more high school football $. No more booster money..no more band booster..no more levys. I am my own charity now. Cash jobs never before but will now. Smart people will get around most of this. How do you think we got it in the first place.

Contango

The corollary:

Calling the SR "conservative" is absurd.

This is an example of how the left wing is running the Democrat Party toward totalitarianism.

"You're either with us or against us." You need to be on the far left on EVERY issue - lockstep - or they call you a Nazi.

They call objective reporting "conservative " (in the pejorative sense) or even "right wing," because they can't hold up to truthful scrutiny.

Doesn't seem to be much political derision in the Dem Party. Unless you're for centrally planned big govt. statism, you're a political outcast.

The Big Dog's back

You either wit us or agin us. GWB.

shucks

lol ! yessssir

Dr. Information

I believe GWB was talking about the war on terror. But coming from you, I expect nothing less.

John Harville

Oh Copntango... did you reallly write that? You're the only one I hear calling people 'NAZI'...

beepx22

saying the register, or at least the people who run it aren't liberal would be absurd

goofus

Where have you been? Wondering what rock you have been under, the AP is constantly shilling for Obozo!!!!

John Harville

Stone... Actually, it is a pro-Republican story, warning that the far-right is, brick by brick, dismantling the party of Eisenhower and Regan and, in small part, George I. Eisenhower knew how to let the oppostion (which he faced all but two years) work themselves around to his way of thinking (the National Defense Highway Act? ...and the taxes to pay for it?) Reagan was excellent at negotiating things he wanted - and raised taxes 17 times. Even G-I tried to carry it on but his 'my lips' got him in trouble. Lincoln passed the 13th amendment against strong Democrat opposition. Teddy established the conservation and environment protection movements, set aside funding for the FIRST national park and built a monument - a REPUBLICAN. And he did it with taxpayer dollars. The Tea Party is acting more like the Roaring Twenties Republicans of Teapot Dome, Prohibition(let's invade people's personal lives with our holy indignation), stocks on the margin, Herbert Hoover - and we know how that worked.

rickross2

Republican or Democrat......You all better brush up on your history lessons. Obama is on his way to becoming our Hitler. Same thing Hitler did in Austria in 1938. Free food, free health care, and a ban on guns. Next step, slavery! Long story short, all you Obama supporters screwed us smart people.

John Harville

Yeah. Study your history. Austria was a prime target because the government had taken everything for itself and failed to provide opportunities for its citizens. The elite few oppressed the many. The Austrians never had experienced democracy nor self-government and got screwed at the end of WWI.
OH... BTW... no one is banning guns. But the truly smart people know they don't have a real use for guns except to hunt, perhaps for self-protection - and, oh yeah, for shooting into an open field near the railroad tracks inside city limits. I never do such things with my gun.

goofus

I've been bombarded on this blog about the american elite taking over the middle class. The left has made the 2% a very repetitive talking point, which is it

John Harville

HUH?

The Bizness

hahhahhahaha conservatives crack me up....

Can you guess what the difference between Hitler and Obama is?

Obama only has 4 more years in office, and there is a presidential election....hmmm strange how a democracy works isn't it?

rickross2

Hitler was voted into Austria also.

KnuckleDragger

Moderators have removed this comment because it contained Remarks that discriminate based on age, race, religion, disability, etc..

John Harville

rickross2... and Poland? and Czechoslovakia? and France? and Russia? and....? Was Hitler elected there? While there are some rightwingers who might want to invade Mexico (Sen Ted Cruz R-Tex wants to use drones along the border), I don't know anyone who wants to take Canada or Cuba or the Caribbean...
You really need to study your Austrian/German/Italian history.

goofus

JFK came close in the Bay of Pigs crisis. I would love for Cuba to be a semi-democratic country, traveled the island extensively. Love the food and Mojito's.

John Harville

What part/s of the Island did you travel? Or are you referring to your life in the 50s when it was a major travel destination for us elite? It was amazing then.

goofus

Dipwad, go to Havana yearly for the Cigar Festival, meet alot of celebs every year!!!!!!

John Harville

RR2 In reality, Hitler (Chancellor of Germany) wasn't on the ballot. The question was whether the Austrians wanted prosperity to be achieved by establishing the Nazi Party there.
Big Difference.
Take your own advice... study your history.

Contango

History doesn't repeat, but it rhymes.

Pres. Obama is the symptom, he is not the disease of Fabian Socialism.

One party rule leads to authoritarianism.

The Big Dog's back

winnie, since you are always pasting Business Insider, I thought you might appreciate this.
The IMF Admits It Was Wrong About Keynesianism
http://www.businessinsider.com/i...

Contango

@ Brutie:

Better to read Austrian econ or Zero Hedge.

Why not follow their "advice" and borrow and spend your way to wealth?

John Harville

Copntango.... so the Socialist overtaking of the US will be gradual... so gradual we won't notice it. Like the Preamble to the Constitution? Or the Pledge of Allegiance (written by a Socialist and embracing socialist ideas)? For those who don't know, Fabian Socialism began in 1884 as a society of men determined to introduce socialism gradually and inconspicuously instead of by violent overthrow. Of course, Contango likes to throw out ominous terms to scare us. But Fabian Socialism began in the 20s and then grew exponentially under FDR and Johnson.

goofus

Woodrow Wilson was the first progressive president and ahead of his time with the creation of the League Of Nations an absolute joke, just like the other progressive FDR and LBJ. As you cans see socialism is a product of the democratic party here in America.

John Harville

TEddy Roosevelt was a Democrat? In what universe? He was much more Progressive than Wilson ... so much so he formed his own party to defeat Ohio's Taft. And who was that other progressive Democrat before Wilson? They just made a movie about him. Oh yeah, Abraham Lincoln. And what's his name, us, from Fremont... uh Hayes - who put a telephone in the White House. But you're prolly right, all those I've named would be Democrats today. Oh oh oh.... I forgot Eisenhower and the National Defense Highway system spanning America with superhighways at taxpayer expense.

goofus

Big Boy, you are flat out wrong sir, please cite your sources or references

Randy_Marsh

@Bizness
http://dailycaller.com/2013/01/0...
Might want to recheck the idiocy on the left. They want him to be king and if worse comes to worse under the war powers act he CAN suspend congress.

shucks

@ Marshian

Might want to read your links a little better before you shoot your mouth off.

John Harville

Marsh... is that anything like your gods (Rush, Beck, etc.) telling us back in September that Obama was going to use the Bush-era legislation to suspend the election and land warplanes in Port Clinton?

goofus

Source? Oh learned one

John Harville

RAndy... to which War Powers Act do you refer? 1973? Passed over Pres. Nixon's veto RESTRICTED powers of the president to wage war - reaffirmed Congress' exclusive power to declare war. Where is the president's power to 'suspend congress'?

goofus

Source Please!!!

Licorice Schtick

Comparing Obama to Hitler is silly. Lock-step obedience is a hallmark of facism, and that's what the right wing demands. Look what they did to Gov. Christie for daring to say one nice thing about the President of the United States.

Contango

Moderators have removed this comment because it contained Personal attacks (including: name calling, presumption of guilt or guilt by association, insensitivity, or picking fights).

John Harville

Schtick... I think you meant 'goose-step obedience'.

Licorice Schtick

No, lol, but I suppose that would work, too.

goofus

Oh no, a dem representative has introduced legislation to circumvent the two term rule. Obozo wants a third term or president for life!!!!

shucks

Oh no, a Republican Senate Minority Leader sponsored a bill to circumvent the two term rule in 1995.
Looks like the Republicans want a third term or president for life!!!!

goofus

Really? A republican MINORITY leader tried one time, meanwhile the liberal left tried ten times. Ask yourself oh wise one would Bush have accepted? Such a misguided leftist, I would bet my life Obozo would jump at the chance!!!!!!!

shucks

Mr goofus doofus,

Yeah, really.

Here's a link supplied by another right- wingnut. Maybe you can figure it out better than he did. ( I strongly doubt it)

http://dailycaller.com/2013/01/0...

shucks

Really Sandusky Register?> Moderators have removed this comment because it contained Lengthy excerpts from other websites.

Sarah Weber

I reviewed and restored your comment 4Shizzle.

shucks

thank you

John Harville

Reagan favored such an action in 1986.

It's all posturing and politics. Requires 67 senate votes and 287 house votes to send it to the states which have seven years to come up with approval of 38 state legislatures with 2/3 vote in each state.
It took four years to ratify the 22nd Amendment in 1951 limiting presidential terms to two.
Probably easier to get necessary backing for 6-year one-term.

The Big Dog's back

Moderators have removed this comment because it contained Personal attacks (including: name calling, presumption of guilt or guilt by association, insensitivity, or picking fights).

Pete

Moderators have removed this comment because it contained Remarks that discriminate based on age, race, religion, disability, etc..

hilltop

I vote and I'm pretty pissed-off, too.

John Harville

Moderators have removed this comment because it contained Off-topic comments.

totallyamazed

:)
:)
I love the picture of George Washington with his hand stretched out (on the wall). If you use a magnifier the caption under Mr. Washington says: "Hey! where's my free cell phone" or in confused awe "what were you thinking in November?"

HA!

:)
:)

Swamp Fox

Moderators have removed this comment because it contained Personal attacks (including: name calling, presumption of guilt or guilt by association, insensitivity, or picking fights).

jas

Swamp Fox, you're wrong. Go do some checking on the demographics of those who say they're Dems and those who say they're Reps and you'll find the Dems are a much more diverse group than the GOP. All you have to do is look at the faces of the people attending the Party Conventions every four years. If you think the GOP is a more diverse group than the Dems, you must not understand the meaning of diverse.

The biggest difference between how the two parties operate is the fact that there is no concept similar to RINO in the Democratic Party. If a person is a Democrat and doesn't agree with a wing of the party, they don't automatically get a primary challenger because they're not ideologically good enough.

The GOP fights like cannibals. The Tea Party has destroyed the party of Lincoln, Theodore Roosevelt, and Eisenhower. It has become the party of Grover Norquist. How sad for a once great political institution that has forgotten its past and traditions.

Contango

jas writes:

"If a person is a Democrat and doesn't agree with a wing of the party, they don't automatically get a primary challenger because they're not ideologically good enough."

What about Joe Lieberman?

Also, didn't that monied carpetbagger Hillary Clinton push aside another candidate for the NY U.S. Senate seat?

John Harville

Are you referring to the preferential primary system?

Factitious

Joe Lieberman? Neither party wants that untrustworthy guy. The Democrats tolerate diverse viewpoints, but he was a DINO - Dem In Name Only.

Both parties have their internal wrangling, but Dems fight among themselves more publicly (hence, "herding cats") while among the R's, dissenter have more to fear. That's because they're more homogeneous - they're the greedy selfish people, and the D's are Everyone Else.

John Harville

If it is a welfare state... we can thank Republicans and Teapublicans for the market crash in 2008, the recession, the banks crushing homeowners. People only need government help after the government helps 'too big to fail' take their money.

goofus

Et tu harville with the revisionist history, Tea Party started in 2009 in response to the stimulus and tarp funds being misspent. Google it and the year 2009 jumps out at you. Young Barry Soetero made a living suing banks for redlining on behalf of his employer Acorn. Banks weren't the enemy, the government through pressure from the government were forced to lower the standards for homeownership by such things as , allowing welfare and ADC payments to add to the prospective homebuyers eligibilty. A google search will reveal the culprit!!!!

John Harville

Acrual formation as a 501c4 was 2009... but the origins go back to 2005 - check it out.

goofus

Which proves nothing except that we were actually concerned about Bush's spending.

Just Thinkin

AWWWWWWW !guys come on we need your party to stop the gun grabbing anti American self centered Democraps, I just switched from them gun grabber's to your freedom party,I'll never vote Democrap as long as they keep wandering away from the founding beliefs forget aliens,and welfare for every one who dont want to work.

John Harville

Just... What ARE the 'founding beliefs'?
Aliens? When did YOUR family arrive here? Because you ARE an alien. And those of us with relatives who came across the land bridge are tired of all of you complaining about 'aliens'.

KURTje

Mad because they lost. Mad because they are divided - Old GOP-Log Cabin Repulican - Tea Party. Now they dislike Nagel (combat vet). Gov. Christy called Boner to task. Great stuff.

The Hero Zone's picture
The Hero Zone

I can personally agree with this article and in broad terms as an unelected observer and reporter on the youth in the area, they are upset too. Not that they are enamored to the left-wing (in fact a very surprising amount of people in our community hold the "usual" right-wing sensibilities) but that what comes out of Washington is like if Dumb & Dumber was a syndicated sitcom broadcast every night. In the shop I have heard Democratic leaders referred to as glue-eaters and the Republican party talked about (after this last election) as such:

"Hey so did you hear that the Republican rape guy lost his election?"
"Which one?"

That says something. It also says that our young people ARE paying attention to what is going on, especially since a not-insignificant amount of our community watched the Third Party Debates and also voted for Libertarian candidate Johnson. I (personally) held my nose when I voted and I felt ashamed I had to do so.

Continuing the switch back to my personal views I had sent both local and state GOP leaders an email stating clearly and plainly that I would love nothing more than sit down with them and offer them insight and guidance especially for/from the next generation. I offered to travel to them or host them in my store. No response at all from anyone besides Josh Mandel whom I met personally at a handshake event in Columbus the other month. He, perhaps being a young man as well, responded back and I am working a meeting to sit down with him in the future. Not for Republicanism per-se but for our state and its citizens of all affiliations.

To be fair, I sent our U.S. Rep Kaptur an email (and receive ones from Senator Brown) as well with a similar proposition though that was around New Years so I am not quite as upset with a lack of response so far from her. She is most likely very busy right now so I am willing to wait a few more weeks.

Sometimes it is so aggravating hearing problems and their proposed solutions from real, "common sense" people, here locally in the shop or community; but, having a combined R/L leadership that tends to choose to promote their own self-branded Common Sense(tm), Middle Class(tm), and/or Fair Share(tm) values over entertaining communication from the citizenry. All terms used without permission, copyright D.C. Holdings Inc. 2012. That was obviously satire and grumbling, but not undue versions of each.

But I can at least owe my recent awareness TO the elections and outcomes. Gotta make lemonade and find silver linings. And, if I don't speak, nobody will listen.

Contango

@ The Hero Zone:

I proudly voted for Mr. Johnson and have voted (L) for decades.

I woulda enjoyed seeing Mr. Johnson destroy the Tweedledee and Tweedledum party candidates in the "real" presidential debates.

I only "flipped a coin" (literally) and then "held my nose" (metaphorically) in '08 when I cast my ballot for "born-again" Robt. Barr over Mr. McCain.

I lived in IL at the time and my vote didn't count anyway.

Nice lookin' roof rabbit.

John Harville

Zone. Would you be referring to all those fired up 08 youths who the Republicans assured us would not be coming out in 12? Hmmm.

The Hero Zone's picture
The Hero Zone

Youth or not, from what I understand there were many millions less total votes cast for either of the two major candidates this year than four years ago. I have no doubt whatsoever that young people voted for our President, I know many who voted for Governor Romney. And even a dedicated few who voted for the Libertarian candidate seeing neither of the major parties as a viable option. As I mentioned, I held my nose when I voted and I feel poorly that I had to do that. Working with the 18-35 crowd every day, my own thoughts as a 31 year old aside, the sheer amount of disappointment from Republicans and Democrats is palpable. Tending toward the conservative side personally, I have great regret with the party that has usually represented the greater portion of my views. Instead of merely grumbling about it I reached out...and got a handful of air. So I've had to do a lot of soul searching about what to do next.

I am not close-minded to traditionally left policies, in fact I visited the President's campaign office twice during the election season to speak to those people who were dedicated enough to give their time, money, and effort into supporting him. Each time I received a warm reception and was able to have a discussion. I visited the Governor's office zero times, which in retrospect I should have at least gone once. Maybe it would have allowed me to network better to carry my voice and thoughts to local GOP leaders?

But the /overall/ fact that /overall/ voter participation was down, /overall/ views of our national leadership are horrid, and /overall/ many feel as if their voices aren't being heard is frustrating. Focus that to the party I personally tend to relate to better (now arguably it would actually be the Libertarian party if we are putting labels on people) is seemingly divided...it just makes me sigh. But what do I or any others like me do? Join the Democratic party and hope they'll listen instead? Perhaps they will. But I'm so tired of feeling like this.

Phew, that was a bit of a much-needed vent.

John Harville

Ya know, when I was a kid eons ago we played a game in a circle. One would crawl around the circle and plaintively wail to try to get someone to laugh when the one receiving the caterwauling kid's lament had to say "poor pussycat"

John Harville

When I originally posted this I left off 'cat' and the monitor went boiiiiiing and wouldn't let me post. OMG even the monitor has a fishy understanding of the vernacular.

The Hero Zone's picture
The Hero Zone

Being open to all kinds of new games, and not having heard that one before, I'll invite you to the store to teach it to our players here. Let me know which day works best and I'll advertise the event on our Facebook and Funcoast. It is always good to learn something new.

Presuming that isn't the reason for your tale, I see no reason to reply with that anecdote. Aside from indirect name-calling? I hope that you wouldn't resort to that especially because I wasn't name-calling (to you nor anyone else) nor being partisan to begin with. If anything my laments were in support of this story which illustrated shortcomings of the GOP, and based on what you have presented I can presume you are not. I think that this reply only serves to illustrate the exact same frustration that young people have (and those that I have expressed here in comments) to those who look at them as upstarts, slackers, punks, pukes, whiners, or know-nothings. The list of hurtful names goes on and on.

So, if you are in fact willing to teach this game at the store please let me know. I would love to be 100% incorrect about the entertained possible reason you replied with what you did. Otherwise nothing constructive came from this, not even a redundant but well-meaning "Well, maybe you SHOULD talk to Amy Grubbe if you are so disenchanted."

shucks

Face it Repugs, your party is damaging the USA.

KnuckleDragger

This coming from someone whose party won't even bring a budget to the Senate floor. Boy are you easily fooled.

shucks

Your opinion comes from a party who wanted to spend trillions of unrequested dollars towards the military but can't find money for the victims of Sandy.
Typical fearful, fear mongering Republican.

remotecontrol

So what is wrong with that? The defense of our nation is one of the only things the Constitution specifically delegates to the federal government. Where in the constitution does it say the federal govt is responsible for funding disaster relief?

shucks

Let me break it down--The Pentagon didn't ask for it. They already spend too much.

I'm pretty sure would be crying for help if a disaster hit you.

goofus

I need facts and sources that say the pentagon never set a budget!!!!

John Harville

remote "provide for the general welfare"

Contango

John Harville writes:

"provide for the general welfare"

So for you that Constitutionally supports the theft and redistribution of private property under the auspices of a centralized authority?

What did the world need Marx for when it had Madison and his fellow collectivists?

So you seriously believe that the colonies woulda signed on to the Constitution with that understanding eh?

http://www.dailypaul.com/103339/...

John Harville

Dragking... READ THE CONSTITUTION. Specifically Article I. Neither party is responsible for bringing forth a budget - nor is the President. Revenue and spending are the DUTY of the House of Representatives. Ideally, the process would be joint. But Rep. Ryan undermined the process. Now, one of the duties of the head of the majority leader of each house is to bring to the floor bills that have a chance of passing.

goofus

I prefer saving the USA from Obozo's overreaches!!!!

shucks

Trolling

John Harville

Goofus. Ya know... I just decided I'm not going to let you go by with your hatespeech and namecalling without askiing for specifics. Inflammatory namecalling and wordbombs just emphasize your inability to create a cogent argument.
Cite three "overreaches'.

goofus

http://www.thefiscaltimes.com/Co...

A nice article, do you realize there are books written on Barry Soetero's overreaches, you must have a problem with Obozo

John Harville

So you cite a June 2012 article on a website hosted by, sponsored by, paid by a cadre of businesses who have a personal interest, and quoting Greta Van Susteren.
Now. Please cite examples of the President's 'overreaches'. Use of executive privilege? Two words. John Bolton.

BushelBob's picture
BushelBob

The Libertarian Party of Ohio, formed officially in 1972 by mostly women activists led by Kay Haroff with the aim to replace the G.O.P., has been solidly #3 and today is growing. Demopublicans have shown they are little more than two sides of the same coin: Bush had 3 bailouts of the auto industry and Obama followed with 2 more. Martin Luther King, Jr had a dream, but Obombe'em has a drone - compliments of Bush. Meanwhile, U.S. tax victims are on the hook for over $70 trillions in federal government debt borrowed to fund U.S.-powered British Empire. Our Founding Fathers must be spinning in their graves!

John Harville

Bushel... and Sen. Ted Cruz (R-TEx)wants to use Bush's drones on the Mexican border... let's get us some Americans!!!

goofus

Kill Americans, like Border Agent Brian Terry and ICE agen Jaimie Zapata, oh wait a minute, they were killed by Mexicans!!!!

John Harville

... and they knew the risks going in.
But the 9/11 terrorists entered from Canada and Cuba. Drone attack Canada?

goofus

YEP!!!!!!

coasterfan

LOL. All the posts here pretty much prove that the headline of this article hit the nail on the head. Angry Republicans is correct. Odd how they STILL think they have all the answers... Denial is a powerful thing.

KnuckleDragger

They got it wrong, amused is the appropriate word.

Contango

@ coasterfan:

And as well, the Soviets thought that they were ideological correct, up until the time that their regime collapsed.

Enjoy the "temporary" tyranny of the majority.

History doesn't repeat, but it rhymes - it is a pendulum.

John Harville

Contango.. sorry old man, you gotta prove your 'Soviet' point. The leaders of the Soviets actual had an ideology beyond enriching themselves?

goofus

Did Stalin's ideology include the killing of scores of dissenters? Murder certainly must have enriched him or his victims.

Contango

@ John Harville:

The members of the nomenklatura DID enrich themselves. Not unlike our DC ruling class.

So in your mind, the Soviets failure was in the execution of the ideology only? Under the proper leadership it was sound?

John Harville

1917-1989... something worked for the 'citizen uprising'. You should recall that America loved Stalin through WWII - made him an ally. We coexisted with the Soviets congenially until Kruschev planted bombs in Cuba and banged his shoe on the table. We put 'under God' n our Socialist-written pledge in 1956 after McCarthy started turning up Reds under rocks. My parents upset me when they refused to build a fallout shelter - all the while we were building more atomic bombs. Don't drink the milk cuz radiation from our bomb tests falls on the grass the cows eat and radiates their milk. "Duck and Cover"! RED DAWN.

Contango

John Harville writes:

"We coexisted with the Soviets congenially,"

Babble.

So why didn't the U.S. even recognize the govt. until 1933?

There were spies in State and other U.S. depts. KGB files confirmed it.

http://www.usnews.com/news/artic...

Don S

Amy Kremer and her Tea Party are destroying the fabric of congress. Their williness not to say 'yes' to anything is not what they were sent to do in Washington. The speaker Boner is the picture of what the GOP supporters have become, sobbing and ineffective and obstructive.

KnuckleDragger

Since we are name dropping, how about I drop one; Harry Reid.

goofus

Do you actually read your posts, they were sent to Washington by people who wanted to stop obozo's agenda!!!!!

John Harville

Goofus... again with the namecalling. Just can't frame a cogent and defensible argument, huh?
If they were being sent to stop 'the Obama Agenda' why are there fewer now than 10 days ago? Look at all the money Kochs and Diment and Rove and others poured into the campaigns - Diment and the Kochs owned Josh Mandel - and still lost Ohio, among others. Except for the Gerrymander here in Ohio, the Dems would have won even more - overall they cast more votes in the state.

goofus

Excuse me, but I feel I still live in a benevolent society. Some people thought Barry deserved a second chance, I didn't. All the smear ads run by the democrats had some effect. Please furnish sources that Diment and the Kochs owned Josh Mandel. Conversely look at the Obozo donors and all their money and I an anxiously awaiting your sources for the financial report on both campaigns.

John Harville

In your words "Google it". Were you under a rock somewhere? Mandel began his campaign 87 days into office because Diment announced support and made the first huge contribution.
June 27,2011 National Review.

2cents's picture
2cents

I am sure they are upset, how do you govern when the people of a great nation vote for those who endorse more spending and deficit rather than reigning in the spending to keep this great nation solvent. How often in history does anyone get to watch the destruction of the world’s greatest nation by our own law makers and president one day at a time!

John Harville

2cents... at the risk of being told to 'get over it'... even right wing Republicans - some very prominent - state unequivocally that the deficit is the fault of the Republicans during their 16 years in power - six in total power. Now... again... Democrats, progressives, even some Republicans have to come along and mop up the mess. How would YOU suggest we pay for Bush's War, for the unfunded education mandates, the unfunded Medicare Part D... etc.? Click our ruby slippers together three times? Or are 'those who endorse' the gerrymandered Republicans who made it to Congress?

2cents's picture
2cents

(John) I believe that we began to do it to ourselves many more years back than that. We now have a huge load on our system and just last year our current administration told people to get more food stamps, rather than to look for work, any kind of work. I will not quote dates here but I believe it was the democrats that advocated the welfare system as a helping hand, this has become a lifestyle for over three generations for many. As a nation we just cannot afford to just keep printing money we cannot fund either. Cuts will hurt but they must be done before we print ourselves into nothing. I do not care who does it but these jokers in DC are doing nothing good right now

John Harville

I don't know how old you are... Early colonies adopted the British poor laws that provided aid for the infirm and public employment for the able-bodied. Congress under the Articles and the Constitution provided aid and employment programs. It came to full head in the Depression when 1/4 of the workforce was unemployed. In the 40s and 50s the predecessor of food stamps was the commodities produced from the government's subsidy of farms by buying the produce and making flour, sugar, CHEESE (my grandfather who was a disabled veteran got commodities). Another feature of government support were the 'poor farms' more generally known as County Homes where homeless lived, worked the farm, and had basic needs provided. In the 70s the unemployed and others had to 'buy' food stamps by spending a portion of cash for the stamps.
But you will have to cite actual proof for your contention that the government encouraged people to get food stamps rather than work. Further cite proof that welfare is 'a way of life'.
Cuts, if they be needed, cannot be made on the backs of the poor, homeless, jobless. How about all the tax breaks we give to business and industry must be earned - jobs for government money or tax breaks? It works in communities where companies are given tax abatements. But in Ohio under Voinovitch, taxes on corporations were phased out, directly impacting schools and communities.
You really need to do some background searching.

rjk1915

"Laugh, and the world laughs with you; weep and you weep alone."

Swamp Fox

What diversity politically does the democrappers have? Question, name a national democrapper leader who is moderate? The democrappers under Obama has went as far left as any political party in our history. The moderate blue dogs has been driven out by the far left wackos.

Contango

Right. Can someone name an advocate for anti-abortion or for smaller govt. and less tax within the Democrat Party?

The Big Dog's back

Bart Stupak (D Mich)

goofus

Ancient History porch puppy!!!!!

John Harville

Since when are those advocacies the province of the Right? And why can one only be 'moderate' if anti-abortion or for smaller government?
Pro-choice is not pro-abortion.
Name one Democrat who has said "I want to kill unborn babies".
No Democrat is out campaign to kill babies.
But name one non-Democrat who is willing to give up the 'choice' to own guns; the 'choice' to attend private schools; the 'choice' to live where they wish;
Democrats - conservative, moderate, progressive understand that if we can take away one choice it becomes easier to take away another and another and another. Unborn children NEVER had rights because they are not breathing Americans. If unborn children had rights they wouldn't be denied birthright and inheritance by parents who put them up for adoption and have the records sealed. Democrats understand that though elected from one state or district, their responsibility is to represent ALL Americans. Republicans - and especially the Right - never have grasped that Constitutional concept.

shucks

It's time for the GOP to disappear.

Fact is- THEY have damaged the USA and are continuing to damage.

goofus

Such a soviet way of thinking 4 shizzle, one party control, the heck with the will of some people!!!!

shucks

Doofus Goofus,

I never said that or meant that. Those are the words of your puppet masters going through your head.
Are you calling the Founding Fathers communists too?
They didn't want any parties.

John Harville

shizzle... good one. You've left him 'keyless'.

shucks

thanks john
You're doing good too.

goofus

Initially no, but the federalst paper #10 discussed the problem they had with parties.

John Harville

Now you're going back to the Federalist Papers? You mean the one where Madison said no one should pose a problem without proposing a reasonable solution?
And yet they became factionalized in the Federalist and Anti-Federalist and Democratic-Republican party system.

John Harville

for allyouall... "Soviet: an ELECTED governmental body in a communist country".

"elected governmental body" = Congress?

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