Connecticut school shooting revives gun debate

From Colorado to Connecticut talks pick up
Associated Press
Dec 15, 2012

 

A lone police cruiser outside Columbine High School was the only outward reaction Friday to an even deadlier attack at a Connecticut elementary school.

But in a state that was rocked by the 1999 Columbine school massacre and the Aurora movie theater shooting less than six months ago, Friday's shootings renewed debate over why mass shootings keep occurring and whether gun control can stop them.

"Until we get our acts together and stop making these ... weapons available, this is going to keep happening," said an angry Tom Teves, whose son Alex was killed in the theater shooting last July in the Denver suburb of Aurora.

Teves was choked up as he answered a reporter's call Friday. A work associate of his lives in Newtown, Conn., where a gunman killed 26 people, including 20 children, at Sandy Hook Elementary. The connection chilled and angered him.

The 20-year-old killer, identified by a law enforcement official as Adam Lanza, carried out the attack with two handguns. A .223-caliber rifle was found in the back of a car.

The official was not authorized to speak on the record about the unfolding investigation and spoke on the condition of anonymity.

The shooting has once again stoked the never-ending debate over gun control laws.

This week, Colorado Gov. John Hickenlooper generated a storm of debate after declaring that it was time to start talking about gun control measures.

After Friday's school shooting, Hickenlooper told reporters there's no use waiting until news coverage fades.

"We can't postpone the discussion on a national level every time there's a shooting. They're too often," he said.

A visibly emotional President Barack Obama seemed willing to renew debate, calling for "meaningful action" to prevent similar shootings.

New York Mayor Michael Bloomberg, an advocate of greater limits on guns, responded directly to the president's remarks: "Calling for 'meaningful action' is not enough. We need immediate action. We have heard all the rhetoric before."

Also Friday, Mark Kelly, the astronaut husband of former U.S. Rep. Gabrielle Giffords, who was shot in the head during an attack that killed six people in Tucson, Ariz., last year, said the Connecticut shooting should "sound a call for our leaders to stand up and do what is right."

"This time our response must consist of more than regret, sorrow, and condolence," Kelly said on his Facebook page, calling for "a meaningful discussion about our gun laws and how they can be reformed and better enforced to prevent gun violence and death in America."

Tom Sullivan, whose son Alex also died in the Aurora theater shooting, welcomed the discussion. Sullivan and his wife spent part of the morning making sure relatives who live in the area were OK.

Sullivan said mental health, not gun control, is a more pressing concern.

"We all need someone in our lives to care," Sullivan said. "If we see a friend, a colleague, a co-worker and they're having a hard time, we need to reach out."

Sean Graves, who as a student was wounded at Columbine, said he was "disgusted" by the shootings but he didn't believe laws can prevent such violence.

If people "want to find a way to harm people, they're going to find a way to do it," Graves said.

Former U.S. attorney Troy Eid, who was part of a government panel that examined the Columbine shooting, said more must be done to examine what motivates such criminals.

"It's something that's become part of our culture. We have to study it and see what we can do to prevent it," Eid said.

Some shoppers interviewed at Oregon's Clackamas Town Center, where a gunman killed two people Tuesday before killing himself, had similar reactions.

"We need to pay more attention to the people close to us, because I think there's a lot of signs prior to things," said shopper Sierra Delgado of Happy Valley, Ore.

Mental health screenings alone aren't enough, other Colorado shooting survivors said.

Tom Mauser, who became a gun control advocate after his son Daniel was killed at Columbine, urged officials to stop "playing defense" on gun control.

"Let's not say once again, 'Oh, this is not the right time to talk about it.' It is the right time to talk about it.

"We are better than a nation that has people killing children and has people cowardly shooting people in shopping malls and schools and nursing homes. We're better than this."

Such emotional appeals didn't come only from gun control supporters. Friday's responses from both sides foretold a heart-wrenching debate.

"They're going to use the bodies of dead children to push their agenda," predicted Dudley Brown of the Denver group Rocky Mountain Gun Owners.

 

Comments

mikel

on friday in china a man weilding a knife attacked and seriously wounded/injured 23 individuals. are we going to outlaw knives? several weeks ago three people in seneca county were killed in a car accident. are we going to outlaw cars? the list can go on.

btw, cocaine, herion, pot and many other drugs are outlawed. how's that working?

sanduskysteve

if it wasn't for all of the guns, those drugs would not be as big of a problem as they are. And why are you comparing a China man with a knife to this situation. How many mass murderers have there been here in the past year from knives??? And you didn't happen to mention those 23 individuals were actually killed instantly - injured/wounded is different from killing in mass number in a matter of seconds. Anything to continue to allow for this type of activity to happen. I'm still waiting for someone to explain why there is a need for assault weapons of any kind - semi or automatic. Protecting your home nad your family is not exactly the same as the job of the military - and there is absolutely no need for those weapons for hunting either - which is where the NRA should have stayed conected to. They have gone nuts and have no concern for anything or anyone that doesn't own a gun. How pathetic. Where were all of those "we cannot take away the guns" advocates when these mass murderers were happening over the past year? Not a single "good guy" gun in the theatre or at the school.

mikel

the comparision steveo is the fact that there are deaths or injuries caused by many, many types of things not just guns. so every person that does drugs has guns?

mikeylikesit

maybe there were no "good guy" guns because these business owners didn't allow them. how's that working for them? at a school? are you kidding? the libtards would go nuts..

abigbear

obozo says bring knife to a gun fight and in mich calling for civil war and blood in the streets it all comes from the LEFT A@@HOLEs and they want gun control EVERYONE SHOULD CARRY AND THERE WILL BE LESS OF THIS PERIOD......

SMF1

There are no "good guy" guns in those places because they are illegal to have on the property...which just goes to show that tighter gun restrictions keep guns out of the hands of law abiding, responsible gun owners. Had those places allowed carriers on the premises, the problem may have been taken care of before police arrived and lives would have probably been saved. "which is where the NRA should have stayed conected to. They have gone nuts and have no concern for anything or anyone that doesn't own a gun" What does that mean?? The NRA isn't concerned about anyone/thing that doesn't own a gun? They are the National RIFLE association, what are they suppose to be out promoting? That's like saying all those silly little girl scouts care about is cookies...

Smagacity

Ok, Steve of Sandusky: Let's go arrest the mother for owning those guns and the shooter for stealing and using them. Oh, wait...

KnuckleDragger

On that note how about you tell me how many mass shootings have happened in schools in the State of Utah? Utah allows teachers to be armed in the classroom. Better yet how many school shootings? I will help you ZERO! Maybe if the gun grabbers stayed out of gun owners business then there would be more armed people around to stop these things from happening. Considering nearly all of these mass shootings tend to happen in areas that don't allow guns, I think it is safe to say that even lunatics are smart enough to go into places and commit these henious acts where they are not likely to experience armed resistance. You guys just won't face facts, gun control hasn't worked anywhere it has been tried. Chicago, Washington DC, LA? All have the highest gun crime rates in the country, and also the toughest gun laws.

KnuckleDragger

Sanduskysteve say, ". Where were all of those "we cannot take away the guns" advocates when these mass murderers were happening over the past year? Not a single "good guy" gun in the theatre or at the school."

I'll tell you where. Where any law abiding gun owner would be when a place such as the movie theater in Colorado and the school in Connecticut has a no guns sign posted and it is not legal for them to carry there. Somewhere else. You see law abiding means obeying the law, regardless of whether you agree with it, hence the reason there were no law abiding citizens carry guns in either place to stop this from happening. Now go put your head back under that rock.

wetsu

mikel, whether I have agreed with you or not in the past I could at least you could buttress your points with some facts and/or sense. Your 8:25 post disappoints me and, in time, it probably will do the same for you. The chief medical examiner stated that each INNOCENT FIRST GRADE CHILD had in the range of 3-11 wounds. Were some shot from close range? Likely so, but, please explain to me how you can draw a parallel between a knife and a glok that can deliver that many wounds from a much greater distance at an exponentially accelerated pace? If there has been a person in recorded human history capable of that I'd wager we would have heard of them by now. Calm down, Obama didn't take your guns in the last four years did he? Instead, the NRA went on their predictable campaign during the election cycle to gin up the base and increase guns sales. Kudos for clever marketing, huh?

We are well past the point where responsible civil servants should have had a discourse on how best to quell the influx of automatic weapons and the associated ammo whose only purpose is to inflict maximum damage. That aids legitimate hunters how? Yum, shredded deer, Ethel. BTW, I own a rifle, I respect it and keep it locked in a location known only to me, so no need to lecture me about responsible gun ownership. Reasonable people need to reasonably discuss what can be done without appealing to the lunatic fringes on either side of the issue. If you think that this guy would have killed the same number of people with a knife or ball bat I respectfully appeal to you to come back down to earth.

KnuckleDragger

In case you haven't read the Constitution or any of the many writings from its drafters. Gun ownership has nothing to do with hunting, and the NRA isn't a hunting rights organization. They defend the 2nd amendment, hunting has little to do with it. There is nothing lunatic about providing for yours or your families defense. Keep a gun locked in a location known only to you likely won't afford you much protection if the bad guy comes knocking.

wetsu

Perhaps you need to find a better neighborhood and you also seem to be of the opinion that I need your approval on where I elect to store my rifle. You've failed on both counts. Go hide behind the Constitution. I know, my cold dead hands, right?

KnuckleDragger

I live in the country for one, were everyone is armed, not much happens out here, and the one time it did the burglar was shot coming in the window Really I could care less where you store your weapon, it's your choice, and I am entitled to my own personal opinion. No one said you had to agree with it. So you are wrong on both accounts. You can go hide behind your trigger locked rifle if you wish, really doesn't affect me either way.

wetsu

Nice try.
You know your rights don't you, first amendment for that opinion entitlement thing, correct? I have no need to hide behind my rifle, you see, I am able to distinguish between a civil discourse regarding gun violence and gun control. Try it before you attack me, that way you won't embarrass yourself any further. I, too, live In a rural area and know the need for varmint control among other legitimate reasons for gun ownership, that's not the issue I addressed and you should know it. I never mentioned anything about taking guns away from people, be honest. The 2nd and 14th amendments are clear and have been rightly upheld, so rest easy. Obama did not come for your guns in the last four years and I hope he doesn't this time. I see in another post you mentioned that the problem is our culture, very true. Part of that culture is greed, you know, the type of greed that causes the NRA to buy ads and signs during the election cycle warning of the impending gun-control apocalypse. They know full well what will happen, an upward spike in gun sales. Nothing wrong with that, right? Just our economy at work. The NRA is much like a union in that respect, huh? And while we can quibble about what qualifies as assault weapons I prefer a useful discourse on how we curb the gun violence, and if that includes how best to approach mental illness I say all the better. BTW, the country folk around here are pretty darn good with their guns, they're a credit to spirit of the framers. Again, my comment wasn't about the right to bear arms so go preach to someone who needs to hear it. If you are not of the opinion that gun violence needs attention, so be it.

KnuckleDragger

I don't recall saying anything about Obama taking my guns. In order for him to do it, there would need to be a Constitutional Amendment, something he would never be able to accomplish since there aren't enough blue states to get it ratified. Of course violence (not just gun) needs attention but you are delusional if you believe regulating law abiding gun owners is gonna be the answer. If that was the case cities like Chicago and NYC where the possession of guns by law abiding citizens is severely restricted would have marked decreases in gun violence and murders by guns. Look at the stats, it has done nothing. The problem has to do with a culture that glorifies violence as an acceptable way to solve problems. If you want to curb gun violence or violence in general, you are going to have to change people. This country won't go that route because it is not as easy as just creating more feel good, ineffective laws. Blaming the NRA because they are protecting probably the most attacked right in our constitution is just a crutch liberals use in an attempt to make their views on guns less extremist. If it wasn't for the NRA, law abiding citizens likely would have already lost their right to bear arms.

wetsu

I would respectfully ask you to point out where I suggested further regulation of law abiding citizens. You are correct about the culture, there are a host of factors contributing to gun violence, which makes discourse overdue. You are also correct about feel good, ineffective laws which are numerous enough that they are largely unenforceable. The NRA has indeed faced a flood of challenge over time, but, they are not Lilly-white.

wetsu

How many of the 23 died? The last account I saw was 0.

2cents's picture
2cents

I expected this last night. People like to relate the mechanism that an act was carried out with. As a kid back in the sixties we played war every Saturday morning, chased each other around the neighborhood with our toy guns but never had a thought of killing someone for real! I have noticed for years the obsession that people have with video killing games; these games have become so real and interactive. Are we training young people how to kill with no thought of malice? Throw in an unstable boy, Adam, give him the video games to become an experienced shooter and then piss him off at mom?

Remember the terrorists of 911 used how to fly software to learn before they took a few basic lessons on takeoff and then guided their aircraft as weapons.

Guns have been here for a very long time for use as recreation, protection, policing, and war. There is a line that is being crossed in today’s society that appears to be failing to differentiate their purpose. And that even goes into music lyrics speaking of guns as power; you see it a lot in rap music today.

May god bless these families; their lives have been changed forever!

KnuckleDragger

The line that has been crossed has nothing to do with guns. It has more to do with our culture, the one that teaches kids that violence is the only way to solve problems, and that there is nothing sacred about a human life anymore. The gun is not the problem. Until we change our current culture, one that is perpetuated by both what kids see in popular culture and from our country's leadership, the killings will never stop.

jas

KnucleDrugger, the widespread ownership of gun arsenals by individuals is part of the problem that promotes the idea that violence through gun usage or other means is the solution to our problems. Just look at all the commenters who frequently advocate violently overthrowing the government. That's part of "the violence is the solution to our problems" mentality that is rampant throughout our country. It's also called treason, by the way.

KnuckleDragger

So three guns is now considered an arsenal? The problem is that you guys love to come up with arbitrary numbers. Just how many is an arsenal. Lets see if I own a rifle, a shotgun, and a handgun for myself; my wife owns the same because she has a different preference for firearms than I; then my three kids each have a shotgun for hunting, and a pistol for participating in pistol competitions. That is 12 firearms. Some would call that an arsenal but its not. In the world of firearms, not everybody is comfortable firing or has the same accuracy with the same firearm. Hence the need for different firearms. This is not a collection of firearms just for chits and giggles but because of practicality. My ten year old wouldn't fare well shooting a 12 g shotgun or a .45 ACP but does fine with a 20 g and a .22 pistol. My wife may not be as accurate with a .45 ACP but is dead on with a .38 special. Get the picture. Oh and Jas being an attorney I would think you would do a bit more reading on the reason for the 2nd amendment. It wasn't hunting, but so that the citizenry had a means to overthrow a tyranical govenment, which by the way, isn't treason. Unless you are of course a liberal who believes everything the government tells them. Even the founding fathers thought that the citizens should remain skeptical of their government. That skepticism is what keeps the government from becoming to large and intrusive. Looking at todays government, it is obvious that there aren't enough people in this country who are skeptical of it.

jas

Ignoring the fact that the death toll is probably double or triple what it would have been if automatic assault weapons had not been used is almost as insane as the killer of these innocent children. There is absolutely no legitimate reason for individuals to own automatic assault weapons. Anyone who thinks they need to own automatic assault weapons has mental health issues and needs to be examined for their problem. That's not gun control. That's dealing with a serious mental health problem that is rampant in this country if we believe the gun nuts and the NRA. Their apparent need to own large quantities of firearms is evidence of a serious paranoia problem.

Censorship of movies, television, video games, music, etc. is a substantially larger infringement of our rights than gun control of automatic assault weapons. What are we protecting with our guns if we allow rampant censorship throughout society? Our First Amendment right of Free Speech significantly outweighs our Second Amendment right to Bear Arms. I have never understood the thinking of people who favor censorship but oppose gun control. It makes no sense whatsoever.

richrs

JAS
first no automatic assault type weapons were used. Weapons used: 2 semi-automatic 9mm pistols of the type favored by most law enforcement. Please say whatever you want, it is your right. As it is mine to own what I want in firearms. But learn what you are talking about, automatic vs. semi-automatic. Otherwise you sound more ignorant than you already do.

jas

I know nothing about guns nor do I care to learn anything about them. Anyone who feels they need more than one gun to protect themselves is suffering from a mental health problem. It's called paranoia. The widespread and epidemic level of paranoia in this country is the real mental health problem that needs to be addressed.

KnuckleDragger

You said it yourself, "I know nothing about guns." That invalidates any credibility you thought you had. That is the problem, the ones who want to ban guns know nothing about them. Having more than one gun has nothing to do with paranoia, quite the opposite. I would venture to say that not having a gun is a result of paranoia. Really if you are that paranoid about guns or those who own them you personally probably shouldn't have acccess to one. You are liable to hurt yourself or others.

Restless1

jas:
By your comments I can tell you know nothing about guns except what you've heard or read in the media. Prove me wrong by stating on this forum exactly what is an "automatic" and/or "assault weapon". I'm waiting.
By the way, the 2nd Amendment guarantees all the others.

richrs

jas:
I do favor gun control.
Generally from a weaver stance.

mikeylikesit

love it!

OnlyfoolsAssume

Mikel is 100% right, drugs are illegal yet the streets run rampant with them. Making gun's illegal will take them away from law abiding citizens, however, people that don't abide by the law in the first place....why the hell would they give up their guns?

jas

By your logic, we should abolish all laws against speeding and have no speed limits. I have no need to prove my manhood by owning a gun arsenal. People with gun arsenals have a mental health problem. It's called paranoia. That's the issue that really needs to be addressed - the widespread paranoia of people that results in them feeling they need to own a large quantities of guns to feel safe. Guess what? Owning a gun arsenal doesn't make you safe. It makes you a target for burglars who steal guns and gun accidents that kill innocent people in your home. Ask any professional burglar. If they know you own guns, your house is a target for break in because guns are easily stolen and easily sold.

KnuckleDragger

Your rants prove that the only one paranoid is yourself. Which burglar should I ask? I'm sure you know a few, since your profession is responsible for more deaths than any gun owner. How many of these gun theives have you assisted in putting back out on the street to continue their trade? Come on, I'm waiting. Attorneys are the biggest hypocrites. You want to take away a law abiding citizens firearms but yet you'll go into court and get some gun thief of the hook. It must be tough to get up in the morning and look in the mirror at yourself.

Nicole

@jas, you're an idiot. You should seriously stop talking on here. You sound ridiculous.

2cents's picture
2cents

Don't pick on (Jas) too much; it is his/her freedom to express their opinion. What I was saying and believe is that in this country and many others globally, we have major moral issues that need attention. This is the one thing we need to address and not jump off to blame any one thing or another.

Just saying!

Seen it All

You can ban all the weapons in the world, and you still won't be able to disarm evil. If there is a will, there will be a way.

jas

We can have all the laws against speeding in the world but it won't stop people from speeding if they want to. Your logic makes no sense, Seen It All.

Seen it All

Your reply does nothing but agree with my statement, Thank you jas! :)

Don S

This may not have happened, if gun owners, were required, by law, to have thier guns secured so nobody could use them. If the guns are not secured, then the owner can be held responsable for what the guns are used for. This young man used his mother's guns to kill her and 27 innocent adults and children.

Randy_Marsh

@Don
How can you hold the owner of the weapons responsible when she was killed with it already? Timothy Mcviegn killed hundreds with manure, Maybe we should outlaw BS?

bored reader

If you outlaw BS, the liberal democrats would be made illegal. You just might be on to something!!!

KnuckleDragger

He also killed her, so that rules that out. Same nonsensical posts that you always make.

looking around

I see what Don S is saying, if these guns were secured none of this may have happened. If laws such as he describes were in place perhaps folks would be more careful about how the secure their weapons or be held responsible. A win win you guy's could keep your 50 mm automatic machine guns. Your so busy spitting all over yourselves spewing slurs at anyone who would suggest more responsibility that you are blinded and turn deaf ears. Grow a set and be responsible enough to make sure your treasured guns don't fall into the wrong hands......the technology does exist.

underthebridge

I can't think of any reason that an average citizen would need to have an automatic or semi-automatic weapon other than "want" to because the 2nd amendment allows for it.

There are limits to rights. We have the right to free speech, but we can't yell FIRE in a theatre when there is none and hide behind freedom of speech. There should be a reasonable limit on the weapons that an average citizen can purchase and I think that limit is at automatic and semi-automatic weapons.

And I also like what Don S is saying.

Blowfish

All we have to do is put limitations on the 1st Amendment and the gun debate is over. Problem solved.

Blowfish

All we have to do is put limitations on the 1st Amendment and the gun debate is over. Problem solved.

KnuckleDragger

Judging from your post you are ignorant to the difference between a semi-auto and a full out firearm. Please save yourself from looking stupid and do some research before posting. Hence the reason we need organizations like the NRA. The idiots he want to make the laws are the ones who have never even touched a gun in their lives but claim to be experts.

Nicole

If the school wasn't a gun free zone then maybe a responsible adult in the school would of had a gun with them to stop this guy. Trying to take guns away will do nothing but take more of our rights away and piss people off.

jas

Finally, we have the moron with the Archie Bunker Solution to plane hijackings - arm all the passengers. What's next? Why don't we require all the teachers to have guns in their desks so they can stop this sort of thing? Some of you people are beyond stupid. Instead of dealing with the problem of our violent society that believes violence by guns or other means is the solution to our problems, let's just increase the liklihood of violence by adding more tools of violence - guns. How stupid can you get.

KnuckleDragger

They already allow this in Utah, and guess what not even a single school shooting. Please explain to everyone why all these mass shootings tend to take place only in places that do not allow guns? If you know, I'm sure we would all like to hear it.

Nicole

You seriously are an idiot. Drugs are illegal but people still have them. If they make guns illegal, people would still have them. Taking guns away would be taking our rights away. I can see your one of those morons that will just sit back and watch all your rights being taken away. Maybe you should do some research and stop commenting on here sounding like a complete moron.

KnuckleDragger

Actually jas is a hypocite lawyer that preaches a gun control agenda while he profits from getting criminals who commit gun crimes off the hook.

underthebridge

Ask a member of law enforcement if presuming that an armed teacher could've taken out a mass murderer and they will tell you NO WAY.

KnuckleDragger

I asked one that is sitting right next to me. They said you don't know what you are talking about. Again, you look stupid when you try to make a blanket statement about things which you know nothing about.

The Big Dog's back

Since we can't ban all right wing nuts, the next best thing is to make them responsible with their weapons.

KnuckleDragger

Can we tie that responsibility to the left wingnuts being responsible for the children they produce? If so, then I might be on board.

jas

If the mother of the shooter owned an arsenal of weapons which it appears she did, she was more likely a right wingnut than a left wingnut. All wingnuts, right or left, produce crazy offspring.

KnuckleDragger

Again, three weapons is an arsenal? Boy you've lost your marbles.

mojorising

Im not in favor of either, but my curiousity is begging one person to give a logical and rational reason to own an assualt rifle. What purpose does it serve besides inflating one's own ego?

KnuckleDragger

The person who killed these children didn't use an assault rifle and you probably couldn't even define what an assault rifle is.

Blowfish

Update to the gun used: Bushmaster .223 would have been designated an assault weapon under the expired federal ban. That being said -- the MF'r could have done the same amount of damage with hand guns outside that ban.

KnuckleDragger

Yup it was, and it being a semi-auto was not greater firepower than the 2 glocks he also had on him. Considering most of the damage was done close range, you are right he could have easily done just as much damage with any handgun, even a standard revolver with a backpack full of speedloaders.

Kimo

The NRA is all over the social media. The only concern they have about the shooting is that it may slow sales of assault weapons.

Money talks......

Blowfish

Talk about banning some guns will cause sales to explode. The President is wise for taking off the table for now.

2cents's picture
2cents

Correct, during the first round (no pun intended) of the Obama election, I purchased something I did not plan too because I thought if Obama were elected he would try to make that impossible to do in the future, he said he was going to. Also at that time there were hundreds of thousands of people purchasing firearms because like I, they believed that their right would be taken away. There was also a huge ammunition shortage as citizens stocked up believing that a few new laws blocking the purchase of ammunition would take place.

So in reality, when the progressives tried to block these sales and talked about eliminating firearms from the US the inadvertently put millions upon millions more rounds of ammunition in peoples closets as well as firearms that may not have been purchased or stockpiled.

What was this boy’s mother doing with a Bushmaster M4 anyway; maybe part of the divorce settlement? Who knows but we only have ourselves to blame for the way our children are being raised today.

jas

2cents, you fell for the trap of the NRA and the gun makers. They used scare tactics to make you think Obama would advocate gun control laws when he has not proposed a single law concerning gun control during his entire time as both President and Senator. They lied to increase gun sales and you fell for it. It has absolutely nothing to do with the truth and if you still believe their lies to get you to buy more guns, you are truly gullible. I have a time share condo for sale. Want to buy it? It's a great investment.

Randy_Marsh

Havent read the news in the last 2 days huh? Obama does not have to run for re election and new gun laws are already being promised, Everyone with half a brain could see it was comming. By the way arent there already laws against killing people? What makes you think criminals are going to follow new laws?

smeltz

How come when a the Dallas Cowboy football player killed a team mate while driving drunk, we don't hear talk about banning alcohol or automobiles? Just like some of you can understand why someone would want to own an assault rifle, I can't understand why someone would want to consume liquor that gets them intoxicated and then get behind the wheel and take innocent lives. But yet when a mentally unstable person gets a hold of a firearm we immediately want to put a ban on guns.

It boils down to this...in both incidents a person that had no business consuming alcohol or handling firearms used something that so many other people can handle responsibly, to do something very irresponsible and horrific.

Lets not have some knee jerk reaction to this tragedy and start talking about trying to get rid of guns. Because I don't recall ever hearing any one talk about getting rid of automobiles and alcohol after a drunk driving accident.

KnuckleDragger

You won't hear it. The liberals who are tied to the gun control mantra know full well that it has nothing to do with guns and everything to do with control, control of the populace. The idiot lefty's are just not smart enough to realize it, and won't until their beloved gov't has taken complete control of their lives.

jas

Duh, we already have laws against drunk driving. Your analogy is meaningless. If the football player was driving a tank drunk, your analogy might have some merit. No individual needs to have a tank and no individual needs to have assault weapons. If you think you do, you're simply paranoid and need mental health assistance.

Randy_Marsh

Pretty sure there are already laws against shooting people as well. You argue against your own stance.

underthebridge

Because while horrible, that man only took out his girlfriend and himself. This shooting took out 27 victims of which 20 were 6 and 7 year olds. The only reason for the purchase of these kinds of weapons is killing masses. I'm not advocating banning all weapons --- just those whose purpose is killing masses of people.

The NRA counts on ouroutrage to wane. They don't care about our country. They don't care about those grieving families. They care about profits for the gun companies they represent.

mikeylikesit

i respect your opinion but there are many people with these guns who are law abiding citizens. in fact i beleive most are law abiding. if they do not break the law they should not have to explain why they have these guns. it's not fair to punish law abiding citizens for crimes of others. not everybody who has one of these guns has plans to kill lots of people. it should come down to holding these criminals accountable for their own actions for all crimes, not just gun crimes..

jas

There are many law abiding countries who have nuclear weapons but that doesn't stop our country from advocating for nuclear non-proliferation. Gun control is no different than nuclear non-proliferation treaties. One is at the individual level and one is at the the international level. If it is a good thing to reduce the number of nuclear weapons in the world, why is it wrong to reduce the number of guns in our country?

mikeylikesit

if you want to be a helpless victim that's your right..the HONEST, LAW ABIDING people who do not want to have a right to defend themselves. if you find yourself victimized and in need of defense call bloomberg or schumer or clinton and let us know how that works out for you..

underthebridge

This is exactly the rhetoric the NRA wants us to say... that law abiding citizens shouldn't have to explain why they want these weapons of mass killing ($$$$$$) or that law-abiding citizens shouldn't be punished because of the actions of these criminals. I'd argue that law-abiding citizens whose children were gunned down have been punished and would think differently.

mikeylikesit

law abiding gun owners did not commit this crime and are not responsible for the actions of the criminal. it's all about placing the blame where it belongs, on the criminal. that concept seems lost in this country. if your neighbor breaks the law, any law, should you be held accountable? the victims of your neighbors hypothetical crime and their families may feel punished in this hypothetical situation but should you or anybody else who is innocent be held accountable in any way for the actions of criminals? i dont think so. criminals dont obey the laws we have now. i dont think they will obey any new laws either. i dont have all the answers but this seems like common sense to me. taking away the rights of law abiding citizens will not stop criminals. we need to get back to placing blame where it belongs, on the criminal, regardless of race,economics, or upbringing.

jas

If criminals don't obey the laws, why should we have any laws about anything? Your logic makes no sense. The pothead smoking pot in his basement isn't hurting anyone so he's not part of the drug problem. That is the same kind of thinking that is consistent with anti-gun control rhetoric.

mikeylikesit

your "logic" makes no sense. for any law to be effective there must be sanctions for violations. the liberals go out of their way to blame anybody but the criminal, then when the criminal is facing a harsh punishment, whine about how they had a tough life, it's not their fault their baby mama didnt have a baby daddy, they were poor, "the man" was holding them back, the excuses are endless but the answer is simple really..

KnuckleDragger

You may have finally hit the nail on the head jas. In fact, we have thousands of gun laws. The fact is that most are not enforced, and idiot lawyers find ways to get these criminals off the hook and back out on the street where they can continue to kill people. If you want to put your money where your mouth is, stop keeping these people from doing prison time. Become a judge, and give every one of these idiots who commit gun crimes the maximum sentence instead of 6 mos in a halfway house then back on the street.

The Big Dog's back

It was a law abiding citizen who committed the crime. He didn't become a criminal until after he committed the crime. That's where the concern is with kids and guns.

KnuckleDragger

Actually it was a lunatic who committed the crime, and the chances are better than average that he was mentally unstable before he committed the crime.

The Big Dog's back

Actually, it was a law abiding citizen.

KnuckleDragger

Actually, you are a lunatic.

KnuckleDragger

Yes and the gun grabbers rhetoric would have you believe that it is the guns fault for these mass killings. This reason is they don't want to admit that their kid glove approach to punishing criminals doesn't work. So instead of coming down hard on the criminal, we will coddle them, give them 3 hots, a cot, free cable tv, a college education and plenty of time to work out in a state of the art gym. Then we will punish law abiding citizens by trampling all over their Constitutional rights. When are people like you ever gonna get it?

mikeylikesit

i agree, but, unfortunatly, i dont think we will ever get through to them..

KnuckleDragger

We won't, but it is comical to watch them talk in circles, especially when most of them will tell you that they know nothing about guns. LOL

jas

I guess this means that KnuckleDragger is in favor of increasing his taxes so we can build more prisons. I'll let Governor Kasuck know this when he tries to close more prisons because people like KnuckleDragger aren't paying enough taxes to pay for them. You get what you pay for. If you want harsher treatment for criminals, then be willing to pay for it or you're just another ignorant blow hard.

KnuckleDragger

I have no problem paying more taxes to build more prisons. I'm not all that concerned about taxes going up if it is for a good reason. I would rather spend it on prisons than on some baby mama so that she can continue to breed more little criminals.

The Big Dog's back

So you are in favor of abortion? I didn't know you were pro-choice.

KnuckleDragger

Nice try pup. No but I am in favor of forced sterilization or cessation of welfare benefits and forced adoption of the child.

deertracker

Is this really about gun control? There was no real way to avoid this. The guns were all purchased legally. I don't necessarily blame the owner either because she was a victim also. We don't know how the guns were secured and it really doesn't matter because a 20 year old should know better than to play with weapons. Gun control does not mean outlawing guns or punishing law abiding citizens. IMO, we need to pay close attention to our kids. We need to be able to recognize a potential problem and act. Ther is no gun law that could have avoided this.

jas

Deertracker, you're partially correct in that additional gun control may not have entirely prevented this tragedy, but banning assault weapons may have reduced the number of casualties. Perhaps 10 innocent children would still be with us. The real problem we need to address is the widespread paranoia in this country that encourages people to purchase arsenals of weapons. That's a serious mental health issue we need to get under control. Too many people seem to believe that having stockpiles of weapons is going to keep them safe. It never has and never will. It makes you a target for burglars and increases the liklihood of gun accidents in the home. I don't own a gun. Never have and never will. I don't need a gun to prove I'm a man. Those that think they do are the ones in need of mental health assistance.

KnuckleDragger

The fact that he killed all of his victims at close range, no an assault weapon ban would have done nothing. He may not have had the Bushmaster, but he could have done the same carnage with any handgun on the market, including a standard revolver and a backpack full of speedloaders. A person with very little knowledge of guns could use a revolver and speedloaders to fire more than 75 rounds in the amount of time it took the school to report the incident until the time the shooter encountered armed resistance from the police.

Jas you keep bringing up the manhood thing which leads me to believe you have doubts about yours. Having a gun has nothing to do with manhood. If you don't own one, who cares, it doesn't matter to me. You have every right to cower in the corner when the bad guy bust through your door with a gun. I will never fault you for that, if you think that is your best line of defense. I do have a problem with your insinuation that having more than one gun has to do with paranoia. What do you know about an individuals motivations?

2cents's picture
2cents

deertracker

LadyC

I have to agree with jas. The paranoia and hatred that is running rampant in this country is the main problem. I don't believe that gun Ownership is bad, or causes these kind of situations, but gun Loving is another story. A gun has only one purpose-to kill. If a homeowner keeps a gun for self defense and keeps quiet about it, no problem. If someone brags about how many rounds they have, or what they have, what they can do with it, etc. especially in front of their young kids, that is a problem. And the kid in this case was described as having Asperger's (autism), reclusive, and antisocial. And somehow knew about Mom's guns. Recipe for disaster.

KnuckleDragger

So what you are saying is that our mental health system has failed again? Now we know who is really at fault.

richrs

@ Lady C
I disagree with one thing you said. That firearms have one purpose, to kill. I have a neighbor who is an avid trap/skeet shooter and does some plinking with a .22. That's all. He would never, by his own omission, use them to protect himself, he believes that no property or items is worth taking a human life (we won't get into my disagreement on this). He recently purchased an M4 semi-auto carbine for target shooting. So his beliefs, and I'm sure a lot of others like this invalidate that part of your statement.

deertracker

You all can make all the excuses you want for this guy but fact of the matter is he was just evil. There are lots of people with mental health issues that DO NOT kill kids or anyone else. I agree, a gun does not make you a man but having one and using it properly can protect you and yours. It is your right to own firearms but it is also your responsibilty to use safety and common sense as a gun owner!

KnuckleDragger

Amen

Seen it All

There is a picture circulating on FB that puts this whole gun issue into perspective that even a not so bright person can understand, and it reads: WE DON'T BLAME CARS FOR DRUNK DRIVING....WHY DO WE BLAME GUNS FOR VIOLENT CRIMINALS!! Now, with that said, and being a CCW myself, I do, however, believe no one needs an assault rifle; except military. As soon as those words came out of my mouth this morning, my husband pointed out that you can get online, and order parts to put on your hunting rifle to turn it into basically the same thing! Like I've said before, if there is a will, there will be a way!

meowmix

As a lib democrat with a LE background, gun owner to boot I have to say it is time for regulation. You folks with the above-like analogy can yap all you want. Fact is, the arse KILLED 27 innocent people with a gun!!! I don't know the answer I only know that something has to change. We can't keep having these types of atrocities committed against our little ones any more. For shame on you that think it's not about the gun. Because it is.

Seen it All

He could of killed A LOT more with a few bombs, if that were the only option left to him!! (Get online, plenty of recipes for those!) Banning guns will not control sick minds!!

KnuckleDragger

Yup, let's enact some more gun laws...it's for the children. We all know that strict gun control has worked so well in places like Chicago. Apparently you've been huffing cat urine again.

Seen it All

Just a little info to back up my earlier statement:

In 2010, 10,228 people were killed in alcohol-impaired driving crashes

www.cdc.gov/motorvehiclesafety/i...

In 2009, 11,493 people died from firearm homicides

www.cdc.gov/nchs/fastats/homicid...

You will have to copy and paste to your browser people.. spam filter and all! Sorry the years don't match, but it IS a government web site! :)

As I know most of you watch/follow the news and know that most of gun shot fatalities come from gang bangers/thugs against one another, criminals who are robbing, and of course, family members. NOT your whack job who went into the school and started killing!!

Your chances are higher being killed on the highway by joe blow who is no longer allowed to drive because he lost that privilege years ago, but continues to drink and drive anyway! You want to take EVERY law abiding citizens car away too, just to stop the drinking and driving??? GET REAL!! If the few "SICK" want to commit mass murder for whatever reason.. THEY WILL regardless of the laws!!

Seen it All

For the record, I am NOT a cold hearted person! I've never shed so many tears for the deceased I did not know since 9-11! I just don't believe gun control is NOT the answer to the problem! This crap NEVER took place when I was in HS... though many HS students have felt the fear over the years. Now.....it has trickled down to the youngest of our citizens... and it sickens me as I have kids, but in NO way will "gun control" stop evil! We had "bullying" back in my day... NO way would a bullied student come shoot up a school back then! The difference from NOW to back then is nothing more than MORALS.. they are no longer taught at home, and heaven forbid they are taught at school!!!

The Big Dog's back

When did you go to school?

Seen it All

I graduated in 1982 Big Dog.. Back then ANYONE could walk into a school! I've never been able to walk in to my child's school without having to ring a "buzzard" first. Seems that does not protect them.. as this sick person got in without rinding for permission!

LadyC

OK, richrs, I stand corrected, people also use guns for sport. I am not anti-gun myself BUT I am anti-violent, and I believe that a lot of people who are freaking out about losing their guns, or those who brag about how many they have, what kind, etc.etc. are not helping the problems we as a country are facing, with dangerous weapons being wielded by crazies. I do not have an answer, I just personally believe that the enthusiasm and passion for deadly weapons has reached epidemic proportions. And not everyone should have a gun. A 90 year old with dementia and poor coordination, a kid with a history of mental problems, or a young kid's curious houseguest are just a few examples. This problem is beyond laws and rights. It is about moral and ethical responsibility. It is also about common sense. People need to hide the things and shut up about them, if they feel they must have them. And not say in front of their kids "I'll shoot so and so, for such and such." And I make no excuses for criminal behavior, and have no sympathy for criminals who play the game and get caught on the wrong end of a homeowner's gun. I am just tired of reading comment after comment from people who seemingly love their stinking weapons like they were people. They are not.

richrs

What you say here makes a lot of sense. I am a gun person, son of career military, 16 yrs in myself. I don't have a problem with firearms. But do have aproblem with stupid people around them. And those who are drinking. Something needs to be done about the violence!

Randy_Marsh

Santa: Ho Ho Ho, And what do you want for christmas?

Ralphie: I want an Official Red Ryder Carbine-Action Two-Hundred-Shot Range Model Air Rifle!

Santa: In the present political enviorment the president and administration condemns the ownership of firearms. I will give you a football and a Jersey shore action figure so as you will never have to learn personal responsibility for anything.

underthebridge

Not all firearms, just ones that are able to deliver 100 rounds of ammunition. I'm so sick of people saying that law abiding citizens shouldn't be punished because of this situation. Guess what? They already were. Law abiding citizens in Aurora, CO and in Newtown, CT this year.

It is a different type of entitlement attitude that motivates people to defend the right to purchase an assault weapon, but don't kid yourselves. It is an entitlement attitude.

LONG LIVE THE NRA! (eye roll)

BW1's picture
BW1

The knee jerk calls for more gun control are ridiculous when you consider where this event took place. This wasn't Texas, people. The Brady campaign ranks Connecticut in the top 5 states nationwide for gun control, along with CA, NY, MA, and NJ. It ranks higher than IL, which just got spanked by the federal courts for violating the 2nd Amendment.

Centauri

Gun debate? Perhaps maybe corporate owned Big Pharma needs to stop drugging the childen. When I went to school, I never heard about anti-social disorders, autism or even Asperger's syndrome. Nobody was drugged when I went to school and nobody had autism. There were some that were shy but they outgrew their shyness as they got older. Guns could be bought mail order from Sears and no children were drugged. So what has changed since I went to school? Guns became hard to buy with all of the restrictions in place. Children are now being drugged to where their brain chemicals are changed. Stop drugging the children!

http://www.naturalnews.com/03835...
"In mass shootings involving guns and mind-altering medications, politicians immediately seek to blame guns but never the medication. Nearly every mass shooting that has taken place in America over the last two decades has a link to psychiatric medication, and it appears today's tragic event is headed in the same direction."

http://www.naturalnews.com/03832...
"The industry of modern psychiatry has officially gone insane. Virtually every emotion experienced by a human being -- sadness, grief, anxiety, frustration, impatience, excitement -- is now being classified as a "mental disorder" demanding chemical treatment (with prescription medications, of course)."

http://www.dailykos.com/story/20...

Centauri

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2...

The Drugging Of Our Children (Full Length)

underthebridge

I think that you are correct that the discussion has to include mental illness. I think that you are wrong to suggest this is a new or modern phenomenon.

2cents's picture
2cents
Swamp Fox

When it comes to gun control peoples views are what they are and little if any long term change will occur from either view. What a tragedy like this should be brought to the forefront is this countries lack of mental health services, unless you have dealt with mental health issues within your family its a difficult situation to understand.

LadyC

Centauri makes a really good point about the kids and meds. I wonder myself if some of them are being over-medicated, and becoming dependent on these drugs to "make them behave." I remember my older son's 2nd grade teacher talking to me about Ritalin, for my son. Not because his grades were bad (he had As and Bs)not because he was violent or disruptive, but because he daydreamed and fidgited. She had the same talk with the other parents of the boys in my son's class. I pretty much told her that she did not have the medical background to do this, and that I was not going to make my son a guinea pig for a new drug. Years later, many kids who had been given Ritalin in their childhood had problems with depression and suicide. Makes me wonder, most of these shooters lately have been in their 20s, could they have had their brains altered by these so-called helpful meds? I really don't think gun control laws will entirely solve the problems of mass shootings, but something does need to be done. Attitudes need to change, parents need to talk to their kids about fantasy vs. reality, and gun owners with family members that have delusional or erratic behavior problems should never allow them access to weapons!

goofus
Randy_Marsh

Lets try to clear this up real quick.

in·fringe
[in-frinj] Show IPA verb, in·fringed, in·fring·ing.

verb (used with object)
1.
to commit a breach or infraction of; violate or transgress: to infringe a copyright; to infringe a rule.

verb (used without object)
2.
to encroach or trespass (usually followed by on or upon ): Don't infringe on his privacy.
"A well regulated militia being necessary to the security of a free state, the right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed"
See? The operative word here is "Infringe" How much do people feel the need to infringe on your rights, Some on here believe in no rights as they are willing to accept indefinate incarceration and conviction without a trial. (Makes a easy choice if you ask anyone with a brain)

AJ Oliver

Only "infringe" is operative? Who says? How about "well regulated"?
If guns are supposed to keep us safe, why aren't we safe?
Glock's, nuclear weapons, Abrams tanks - they're all cowardly.
Try walking the earth as Jesus did - with empty and open hands.

Randy_Marsh

Are you aware that everyone around Jesus was armed to the teeth?
"Then said he to them, But now, he that has a purse, let him take it, and likewise his money: and he that has no sword, let him sell his garment, and buy one." Luke 22;36
If you follow along behind me fully armed I would walk around with empty and open hands.

dontcare

Written 250 years ago when African Americans were 3/5 human and women didn't have the right to vote and long before 1 million gun deaths since the assasination of RfK, 70 school shootings since Columbine, and 30 shootings in one weekend in Chicago last summer.

Randy_Marsh

Your point? If you do not like that 250 year old document, Then be quiet you do not believe in the right to speech either.

dontcare

My point, if your capable of understanding it, no right is absolute. I don't want to be at the mercy of some wanna be tough guy with a ccw while I'm grocery shopping at Walmart and to suggest that combatting the threat with another gun is ridiculous.

Randy_Marsh

@dontcare
Would you rather be at the mercy of someone who wants to use the weapon on you to take your stuff? People who have CCW's have been trained and are registered with all LE, They do not carry weapons around to be macho. On the other hand some hood rat that needs to prove himself might take a shot at you for no reason. Which would you prefer? The right to bear arms is the law of the land, It is a natural right to protect yourself and if that is taken away you lose that right. So when the government throws you into jail without a trial will you complain or is that right not "Absolute" either?

dontcare

I would choose neither, one can be legislated, the other cannot. The training you speak of is a joke. the mentality to "need a gun" is the very reason most ccw's shouldn't carry. Are you implying by the government statement that guns should be used against the government? I am all for having guns in your home, if you choose, however keep them off the streets where I am. I think a "hoodrat" is less dangerous than an overzealous, dillusional wanna be toughguy with a gun. I believe I also have a right to roam the streets without the fear of same state sactioned ccw with a month worth of weekend practice shooting (training) and the desire to shoot someone to prove how tough they are and to demonstrate the need.

Randy_Marsh

Go to detroit,L.A or Chicago and then claim you would rather trust a wanna be gansta. What is dillusional is people thinking the gov is supposed to be there 24/7 to protect them against thugs yet condemn those who take on the responsibility themselves.

swiss cheese kat

Hey Barry, where are the real tears for the over 50,000,000 babies that have been murdered?

Kimo

NRA has a solution. Give away a Bible with each gun sold.

Randy_Marsh

Hitler gave away Mien Kampf, Will Obama give out "Dreams from my father"?

LadyC

Swiss cheese cat I see you are anti-abortion, or pro-life as you may call it. So am I, for myself. I don't like it, find it sickening, and would not consider it personally. However, it is a poor comparison to a school shooting. A woman's decision to get an abortion is private, and I haven't seen too many cases where they were considered a threat to the public. If you don't want an abortion, don't get one. And if you want to raise and support those 50,000,000 unwanted children, are you prepared to do so? Or will you complain about the entitlements that they will get? And if you are part of the so-called Christian movement who claims to be pro-life, but is in love with their arsenals and weapons, sounds like hypocrisy to me.

Truth or Dare

Now we have famous doctors and leaders of great MEGA churches on T.V. (and radio) spouting their opinions. For example Joel Osteen on Dr. Oz (12/17). He's chosen to equate mental illness with Evil, and now they're throwing Autism into the mix. Isn't that just wonderful?! This subject touches home with me, as our Mother is Bi-polar and because of that suffers from Manic Depression. I guess that makes her evil, right? WRONG! She is the furthest thing from evil, and we her family considered it a miracle of medical science and a blessing that she was finally PROPERLY diagnosed and finally received proper medication, rather than brain zapping! That's what they use to do! She learned and eventually accepted that with her medication and PRAYER, rather than JUST prayer, life could be something more than daily darkness whilst on a roller coaster ride of emotions! That was not quite 20 yrs. ago! Oh, wait, no one wants to talk about the subject, let alone the fact that it can be hereditary/genetic. They call that "TABOO". Most would rather keep it hidden, or those who suffer from such dis-orders/chemical imbalance and are ill hidden, or do their very best to distance themselve's from those who suffer. You can't help somone slipping into that "dark tunnel" if you never come around, or choose to stay away because you just don't understand what's going on, or choose to ignore due to shame and an unwillingness to accept! Yep, God gave us "free will". Such a shame for those that choose to ignore the needs of the mentally ill within our country!

Back in the Old and New Testament days they didn't have the SCIENTIFIC medical knowledge of the brain that we do today, and it saddens me that those like Osteen would even say what they have! Such a dis-service to those that suffer from mental illness and those that help their family member who does, live life with as much normalcey as possible! It takes KNOWLEDGE, understanding, patience, diligence, and most of all UNCONDIDITIONAL LOVE! In Scripture, the N.T., it's referred to as "the fruits of Gods' Spirit", and we're instructed to seek and grow in those fruits! Churches stop teaching that, or what?!

As for the NRA and their proliferation/support in the selling of WMD's in this country......Cause that's exactly what MILITARY-TYPE ASSAULT weapons are! They're meant to kill as many as possible, as quickly as possible, and as long as they're continued to be sold and schools aren't protected with bullet proof glass, nothing will protect our children! It's referred to as DOMESTIC TERRORISM. Shame on the NRA for making excuses and using our 2nd. Amendment as thier tool! I see the NRA extended their heartfelt sympathies....sounded just as cold as the steel of any weapon and was way short of commenting on the need to irradicate such weapons of course. Let them call here again seeking membership and lobbying for their favorite political candidate, as they do so well backed with MILLIONS/BILLIONS of $$$'s.....I'll be sure to let them know where I stand, along with Ohio's Senators and Congressman, and yes, even the President of the U.S. regarding such weapons. And the way I see it, they can include all the other military style WMD's, and that includes Keflar (sp) vests for their own protection, weapons and equip. folks are buying up left and right and have been doing so at an alarming rate since 9/11 and especially over the last 10 yrs.

Newtown, CT. is ANY TOWN, U.S.A.. My deepest heartfelt sympathy and prayers goes out to all that just had their life, their hearts, their babies, their wives, mothers, daughters, sisters ripped away in a matter of seconds!

Mr. D

Lets not forget the inadaquete security at the school. Locked doors and a "buzzer" to let someone in is not security at all if the doors are glass. Locks and buzzers are meaningless on glass doors!

KURTje

ECOT.

Centauri

Guns, knives, swords, axes, baseball bats and other objects can be used to kill. In the case of baseball bats used for weapons, perhaps the news media should refer to them as assault baseball bats. Should assault baseball bats be banned? How about assault golf clubs? Rolling pins should be labeled as assault rolling pins.

http://whatreallyhappened.com/co...

Instead of using tunnel vision and blame guns or baseball bats, one has to look at the root cause of the violence. What is it that the news media is not telling you? Go ahead and ban the guns. Will it solve the problem? Can you imagine what some violent person could do in a room filled with children with a baseball bat?

http://www.wnd.com/2012/12/psych...
"Breggin asserted that establishment media “ignores the scientific evidence linking psychiatric medications and violent behavior because psychiatry is the religion of the mainstream media, and they don’t want to see the dangers of psychiatrically prescribed drugs.”

“Besides, the drug companies also have incredible influence through advertising such that they can call the shots,” he said."

Find the root cause of school violence. The killing and murder was the end result. Until the root cause of school violence is addressed, there will be more school shootings.

Can anybody state any other mass school killings before 1980? Charles Whitman had a brain tumor. One person used dynamite in Michigan (1927).

http://abcnews.go.com/US/mass-sc...

Centauri

http://www.businessinsider.com/a...
"Maybe more importantly, though, Fanapt is one of a many drugs the FDA pumped out with an ability to exact the opposite desired effect on people: that is, you know, inducing rather than inhibiting psychosis and aggressive behavior."

"In fact, Fanapt was dropped by its first producer, picked up by another, initially rejected by the FDA, then later picked up and mass produced. The adverse side-effect is said to be "infrequent," but still it exists, and can't be ignored."

Who does the FDA work for?

http://www.uhuh.com/education/dr...

Centauri

http://www.cchr.org/sites/defaul...

Who does the FDA really work for?

Centauri

Take away ALL firearms, even primative gun powder weapons and you still have the other killings and murders by other means.

http://www.fbi.gov/about-us/cjis...

If you take away the guns, humans can improvise. The other 30% or more using baseball bats, tire irons, fists and feet would become 100% of the killings in the future. What do you do then?

spoild2001

This is so sad. I feel for those people who lost thier children. I was at work when i heard about this it took everything i had not to leave pick my children up from school and hold them tight. Everyone is talking about guns but in reality it is the people. We need to step up as a nation and have things taken care of. You know that in the future there will be a copy cat just like every other major crime! Some one out there wants thier five minutes of fame and it is a shame that people get hurt in the process. There are other ways to get reconized might it be something so small as helping someone instead of shooting up something. I had to see how the world will be when my children are my age. I hope it gets better and not worse. I remember hating my city because nothing happened. Now there has been atleast five murders! WTF happened to my little town that would be perfect to raise a child in...... now i wish i could find a little hole in the wall like this town use to be..... only problem with that is if you move you could move into something much worse.... what to do!

crazyrick

It's NOT gun control, its people control.
If you have a child with a mental problem, and your a gun owner lock them up.
That's gun control, be responsible. As far as Obama he's gonna get beat up from both sides of the fence. He's gotta say something. LOL politics as usual.
Hey gun owner, lockem up or your kid might shoot ya.

The Hero Zone's picture
The Hero Zone

In the interest of our local community, I'll repost what I suggested in the Strickland story/thread. It may not necessarily be a national solution but they are steps that could help in meaningful ways:

Speaking really only with any "authority" on the entertainment aspect of this issue, the best suggestion has already been mentioned a few times. Demystify and de-romanticize them by providing real life stories and examples of gun use, safety, responsibility, and the like. There was a very (in)famous episode of the Disney afternoon cartoon "Gargoyles" where the main human character, a female police officer, was accidentally shot by one of the gargoyles. At the time it was controversial as, well, THAT happened. But it was meant to teach about gun safety and there are consequences for their use by the shock value of a main character having almost been killed by one.

As I am not a mental health professional I can't account for any professional opinions there, but from a youth and community-oriented perspective these are suggestions:
1. Bring in soldiers and police officers to discuss gun use, safety, survival, and overall responsibility and "what to do" in emergencies. It is meaningful community participation/interaction and, like sex education is meant to, is meant to factually teach and confront life issues before they become a problem through ignorance or abuse.
2. Bring in an instructor or otherwise teach self defense in P.E. Martial arts are a healthy form of exercise but not just that, most forms actually carry a message and philosophy of defense over attack and to respect others without infringing on others' religious practices or lack thereof.
3. Through a ROTC or training/survival program (like Boy Scouts) or otherwise sponsored through the school start a gun club that goes to local conservatories and competes in clay pigeon shoots or marksmanship. The key is familiarity and responsibility in a safe, supervised environment. To that extent school-based martial arts or archery would be other activities as well.

Proactive confrontation and education will help. There will always be abuse of the law and the civil society we uphold. But there are many layers of safety nets we can employ as the "village raising the child".

Perhaps, too, if someone is on mental medication a restriction/notification on gun ownership is provided. If there are labels warning you not to drive as you can kill someone, or a side effect of the meds may include suicide (by that extention then, homicide?), perhaps similar restrictions on gun ownership such as those placed on felons be provided? This is an offered solution in concept only as things like having to notify the police you are on psychiatric medication and turn in any guns you own to be held until you are off them or someone else you authorize claims them may be seen as privacy violations, but perhaps the intent of this can be seen and refined by those who know more/better about these things than I. I hope these are helpful, thoughtful observances.

jes1413

I am pro gun, but also pro tighter restrictions. Just this weekend I purchased a hand gun, and will soon be taking the CCW course. I find it very rattling, however, that I walked into the store, handed over my drivers lisence, and checked a few boxes, and walked out twenty minutes later (background check cleared) with a handgun. There should be tighter restrictions, possibly mental health evaluations, training courses BEFORE purchasing a gun, (even without intent of concealing) etc.

But, the reality is, this boy violated a large number of laws. 1) possesion of a hand gun under the age of 21, 2) possesion of any gun within a school, and 3) shooting people with said gun. What happened was a tragedy, but criminals do not follow laws, if all laws were followed, there would not be pages and pages of punishments for people who break those laws. You can make all the laws you want, but it doesn't mean things like this will be prevented.

And by the way, we should probably outlaw bombs too (sarcasm), the deadliest school massacre was in 1927 when a man blew up three bombs and killed 45 people, wounded 58.

ckeimer

Here is the deal, What happened to those children was a tradgedy. I understand that people need to blame this on something. We need to start taking a look at how our children are being raised and what we allow them to be exposed to. With the violent video games and movies that our children are exposed to everyday they are becoming desensitized to the value of human life.

LadyC

Hero Zone, I think your idea is great. I suggested something similar, on the Strickland thread, but not nearly as detailed as yours. Something like the DARE program. Even as young as kindergarten, kids should be taught the difference between real guns and play guns, and that video games aren't real. It seems simple enough, that parents should be the ones to do this, but sadly, a lot of them haven't. And a classroom environment would be good because they could discuss their questions with an expert. I think it is actually long overdue. But no politics!

LadyC

This may be a bit grim, but going along with the idea of educating the kids about guns and safety, it could really drive the point home if they could speak to an actual shooting victim who would be willing to talk about it. Putting human faces and real life experiences in front of them, not on a TV screen or computer, would probably be effective. It could certainly take a lot of the glamour out of the idea of shooting like they do in the video games.