Analysis: Obama could risk going over 'cliff'

It may be just a bluff or a bargaining ploy, but the White House is signaling that President Barack Obama is willing to let the country go over the "fiscal cliff," a hard-line negotiating strategy aimed at winning concessions from Republicans on taxes.
Associated Press
Dec 5, 2012

 

If Washington really does fail to avert the looming series of tax hikes and spending cuts, the White House will portray Republicans as the culprits for insisting on protecting tax cuts for the wealthy, an effort the administration is laying the groundwork for now.

"This is a choice of the Republican Party," said Dan Pfeiffer, White House communications director. "If they are willing to do higher rates on the wealthy, there's a lot we can talk about. And if they are not, then they'll push us over the cliff."

But going over the cliff also would be full of risk for a president fresh off re-election and facing at least two more years of divided government.

Ending the year without a deal could roil financial markets and dent consumer confidence just as the economy is strengthening. It could make it harder for Obama to get Republican help on his second-term priorities like overhauling the immigration system and the nation's tax code, or in getting potential Cabinet replacements confirmed.

And it would signal to the country that the president's campaign prediction that the GOP "fever" would break following his re-election was a pipe dream.

House Speaker John Boehner says Obama is playing a risky game. "If the president really wants to avoid sending the economy over the fiscal cliff, he has done nothing to demonstrate it," the speaker said.

White House advisers say the president wants to avoid going into next year without a tax and spending deal, a scenario they say would hurt the economy. Obama, addressing business leaders Wednesday, said the White House and Republicans could reach an agreement "in about a week" if the GOP drops its opposition to raising taxes on families making more than $250,000 a year.

"If we can get the leadership on the Republican side to take that framework, to acknowledge that reality, than the numbers actually aren't that far apart," Obama said.

But with few public signs that Republicans are close to taking that step, administration officials are hardening their warning that Obama willing to risk going over the cliff.

Of course, the White House warning could be a bluff, offered in the belief that Republicans are unlikely to back down on taxes unless they believe Obama is willing to go over the cliff.

The White House says Obama's firm stand on tax rate increases for the wealthiest 2 percent of Americans is driven by economics. The debt-saddled country can't afford to continue with the George W. Bush-era tax cuts, the president and his advisers argue.

Obama has made that case to Republicans before only to back down in the final stages of negotiations. But this time around, the president and his team believe they hold the political leverage.

There is some evidence to bolster that notion. Taxes were a centerpiece of the presidential campaign, with Obama running on a pledge to end the Bush tax cuts for the wealthiest Americans and return their rates to where they were in the 1990s, when the economy was thriving.

Exit polls showed that 60 percent of voters supported that position, an even higher percentage than backed Obama's re-election.

A new poll also suggests a majority of Americans would blame Republicans if the government goes over the fiscal cliff. Just 27 percent of those surveyed said they would blame Obama, compared with 53 percent who said they would point the finger at the GOP, according to the Washington Post-Pew Research Center Poll.

Seeking to cement those impressions, the White House is casting Republicans as willing to forgo tax cuts for the middle class in order to protect lower rates for wealthier Americans. Rates for all income earners will go up at the end of the year if both sides can't reach a deal.

In turn, Republicans say Obama is acting like a stubborn partisan who will put the economy in peril in order to get his way.

"My sense is the White House wants to go over the cliff," said Tony Fratto, a former Treasury and White House official under President George W. Bush. "That may be the only way they get rates they want."

Going over the cliff could mark a new low in the relationship between the president and congressional Republicans. While the contentious debates earlier in Obama's first term over funding the government and raising the nation's borrowing limit went right up to the edge, both sides were always able to reach a deal.

As Obama ran for re-election, he sought to assure voters weary of Washington's bickering that things would be better if he won a second term.

Speaking to supporters in June, he said, "I believe that if we're successful in this election — when we're successful in this election — that the fever may break."

"My hope, my expectation, is that after the election, now that it turns out that the goal of beating Obama doesn't make much sense because I'm not running again, that we can start getting some cooperation again," he added optimistically.

(This is an AP News analysis.)

Comments

deertracker

This is what you can do when you win. He is doing what he said he was going to do. The Cons act as though they won. THEY DIDN'T!!!!

Licorice Schtick

Correct.

But it ain't over.

Most of Washington is still beholden to Big Money, thanks to payoffs in the form of perfectly-legal "campaign contributions." With this sort of corruption, economic justice will not be possible until ordinary Americans learn the truth, that the deck is stacked against them and only the few that are both exceptionally able and very lucky will ever get ahead.

Check out the movie at Hulu.com, PARK AVENUE: MONEY, POWER & THE AMERICAN DREAM (2012)

http://www.hulu.com/watch/417228

Contango

@ Licorice Schtick:

Why do 10 of the 15 richest counties in the U.S. surround Washington, DC?

They shoulda been filming around Fairfax Co., Loudoun Co., et al and see all the wealthy politicos and lobbyists in their true habitat.

Washington and Wall St. are revolving doors.

See the "real" American Ruling Class:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z...

http://www.forbes.com/2010/03/04...

DBDBDB

Obama was FOR closing tax loopholes before he was AGAINST them. Typical Liberal/Progressive. Don't forget he only won the election by 3% of the vote, and he won by promising to provide more FREE stuff!

http://www.lohud.com/usatoday/ar...

2cents's picture
2cents

http://www.youtube.com/watch_pop...

LOL, I was sent this today by a over seas friend, FREE STUFF UK style!

jon491

Now that is funny..........................Just to bad it's true.

2cents's picture
2cents

I posted this a few weeks ago!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=...

jon491

WOW, I hope she did send that to CONGRESS. How did he make it out of grade school ?

2cents's picture
2cents
2cents's picture
2cents
Contango

@ 2cents:

Funny, sad and oh so true.

My favorite UK import is Max Keiser.

http://maxkeiser.com/

2cents's picture
2cents

@C

Real world last night!

(I was in a Cleveland jewelry store with a friend who is planning to get married, while he was looking at rings for her I was talking to the owner of the store. Of course the economy came up and I asked how business was, he said ok, I said mine was not too good. He went on to say that small business owners like you are not coming in like they used to. They have companies with 5-50 employees and would buy jewelry around Christmas, we would see their employees come in too because they would recommend us. These were the people manufacturing things for automotive and other larger companies but the smaller companies are just going away at a fast rate. The comment was typically offshore completion, too much government regulation and it was just too hard to do business. Some said it was just not worth it! I felt the same way.)

So tax the small business owner some more and there will be nobody to pay the taxes to give to those who choose not to do anything for a living I guess!!!

Contango

@ 2cents:

"Small Business Optimism Ticks Up Slightly

But Uncertainty About Future Business Conditions Reaches Record High":

http://www.nfib.com/press-media/...

Recently read where a number of sm. businesses are selling before the first - too much uncertainty over taxes.

Tax what you want less of, subsidize what you want more of.

I've essentially "gone Galt" as much as I can. It's no longer worth it helping to prop up the takers.

the office cat

Point?

the office cat

point?

verdict

@DBDBDB I read the article you posted. It can be summed up with the following excerpts:

Congressional Republicans are flagging this Obama comment from 2011: "What we said was give us $1.2 trillion in additional revenues, which could be accomplished without hiking taxes -- tax rates -- but could simply be accomplished by eliminating loopholes, eliminating some deductions and engaging in a tax reform process that could have lowered rates generally while broadening the base."
Said a statement from Boehner's office: "It's a solution President Obama himself once supported. If the math worked in 2011, why doesn't it work today?"
White House spokesperson Amy Brundage responded:
"As you saw Erskine Bowles say this week, a lot has changed since we were negotiating with Speaker Boehner in 2011, including an election in which the American people spoke on the need for a balanced approach that protects the middle class and asks the wealthiest Americans to pay slightly higher tax rates.

So, MY response would be: Mr. President. Is that your final answer? The math has somehow changed simply because you convinced voters to demand the wealthy pay more? I wasn't aware that math could be changed by way of a vote. 1 + 1 = 2, unless we vote to rewrite that it actually = 1?

the office cat

Why don't you - all you - understand the ONE major change since 2011?
2011 - Obama faced re-election and Boehner was riding a Tea Wave while Mitch was honing his 'one-term' pledge.
2012 - Obama won re-election. Obama won a larger majority in both houses. Obama doesn't need Boehner (who won't be an issue if he loses 2% cuts this time). Obama won four years to get things on track.
1+1=10 in Base One... It all depends on the BASE.

verdict

@the office cat
You leave the question unanswered. How does anything that you just said..change the math on matters related to the economy? I am uncertain as to how your explanation of Obama's flip-flops actually addresses the question.

The Big Dog's back

51% to 47% is only 3%? How about 5 million more votes.

the office cat

Ya gotta do it in 'R-math' = Romney, Rove, Republican.

Swamp Fox

Give Obama what he wants, when it fails and it will he has no one to blame and the democratic party as we know it will cease to be a political force for the next decade. Lose the battle but win the bigger war...

the office cat

Swamp.... what's in YOUR milk?
Again... how dare you use the moniker of a Revolutionary War hero?

wiredmama222

Let them go over the cliff. Obama wants them to. The loopholes for the rich will not get closed and for the first time since Bush let them get away with not paying their far share of taxes, the rich will now pay. THANK GOD.

The Republicans do not want the rich to pay. They cannot see how Obama will not consider letting the loopholes stand but Obama said he would never allow that. He campaigned on it. Those loopholes will close and that is it.

So the Republicans will take a HUGE hit if they do not let the loopholes close. Obama will not concede that point and the Senate knows it. He was clear about it.

The cliff is coming and it will go as far as Obama is concerned if the Senate does not change their position on this. I hope they go over the cliff because they will automatically close on January 1.

Justme...

Wired, read the article. Taxes for EVERYONE (not just the "rich") will go up if they don't strike a deal.

the office cat

wired and just.... be ready. Congress is sworn in January 3. Before inauguration day Jan 21, the 'cliff' will have been bulldozed into the molehill it truly is, Cantor will be Speaker and the Republicans will sink into The Whig Empire.

wiredmama222

Long before December 31, this congress will have made a deal with Obama. You mark my words. On January 1, the fiscal cliff will be over with. That is the day of reconnning. They cannot wait until the new congress is in place. They have to make a decision before January 1.

I predict that the Congress will make a deal with Obama before they leave for Christmas break. I won't be a total "what everyone wanted" but it will be a deal. You can bet the high ups in the Republican party are telling the republicans in congress to make the deal right now. You can count on it. They are telling them to do everything they can to fix this before they get blamed. Obama knows it. That is why he isn't doing a thing right now.

Before next week ends, you will see a rough draft of a compromise be on Obama's desk laying out something. Obama will return it with changes. The week after that, they will send it back to him with more changes. They next week, just before they leave for break, they will vote it through. Problem solved. You watch. I will bet you that is exactly what happens.

There will be NO raise on the middle class taxes. There WILL be a raise on the rich and on capital gains taxes. There will be NO raise on business taxes. They will try to cut spending .. there will be some major cuts to States and to some of the "junk spending" of the US government grants, etc.

The help to funds like Sandy will go through. They will cut military funds and bring the troops back from Afgahnastan immediately. There will be major cuts from funds abroad.

You wstch.

rickross2

Too bad for the democraps. As soon as the loopholes close up, So will all the businesses that employ the republicans that pay for everything. Live it up now, because as soon as Barry lets us go over the cliff, its lights out for America. Can you say Impeached???????????????????????

wiredmama222

Rick...people like you live in a dream world...impeachment is your dream and is about as likely to happen as you and people like you are to fly around the room. Get over it already. The election is over and your and your friends lost. You are not going to get the President impeached.

Let me explain. The Republican party lost for many reasons, none of which they have fixed. Until they do, they are in a lot of trouble.

The Republican congress is going to find a way to NOT go over the cliff...don't you realize that. The main powers of the republican party will not let that happen....they cannot afford to take another huge hit. Right now they are telling the republican Congress memembers to play ball with the president. Give him what he wants and fix things before the cliff hits. EXCEPT don't give too much.

I am telling you, they will fix it before the cliff....mark my words. They will make a deal. So just sit down, sip whatever you drink and watch and learn what you do not yet understand. Just see what 62 years of life has taught me.

rickross2

After three years of Obama ...

Here's your change!

Jan '09 Today % Chg Source
Avg. Retail price/gallon gas in U.S. $1.83 $3.85 84% 1
Crude oil, European Brent (barrel) $43.48 $99.02 127.7% 2
Crude oil, West TX Inter. (barrel) $38.74 $91.38 135.9% 2

Corn, No.2 yellow, Central IL $3.56 $6.33 78.1% 2
Soybeans, No. 1 yellow, IL $9.66 $13..75 42.3% 2
Sugar, cane, raw, world, lb. Fob $13.37 $35.39 164.7% 2
Unemployment rate, non-farm, overall 7.6% 9.4% 23.7% 3
Unemployment rate, blacks 12.6% 15.8% 25.4% 3
Number of unemployed 11,616,000 14,485,000 24.7% 3
Number of fed. Employees 2,779,000 2,840,000 2.2% 3
Real median household income $50,112 $49,777 -0.7% 4
Number of food stamp recipients 31,983,716 43,200,878 35.1% 5
Number of unemployment benefit recipients 7,526,598 9,193,838 22.2% 6
Number of long-term unemployed 2,600,000 6,400,000 146.2% 3
Poverty rate, individuals 13.2% 14.3% 8.3% 4
People in poverty in U.S. 39,800,000 43,600,000 9.5% 4
U.S. Rank in Economic Freedom World Rankings 5 9 n/a 10
Present Situation Index 29.9 23.5 -21.4% 11
Failed banks 140 164 17.1% 12
U.S. Dollar versus Japanese yen exchange rate 89.76 82.03 -8.6% 2
U.S. Money supply, M1, in billions 1,575.1 1,865.7 18.4% 13
U.S. Money supply, M2, in billions 8,310.9 8,852.3 6.5% 13
National debt, in trillions $10.627 $16.052 32.2% 14

verdict

@wiredmama I may have missed something here but it was my understanding that the Republican plan IS to close loopholes INSTEAD of raising taxes.
There is an article posted above, by DBDBDB, which notes how Obama supported this plan in 2011, but he now claims the math has changed (somehow).
I refer you to my reply under DBDBDB's comment. EDIT: And now our good friend Randy Marsh has elaborated on this matter even further, below.

I don't think people understand or perhaps they have forgotten. The math shows that even if you tax everyone who makes over $250k/yr at 100% of their income (taking all of their money and thereby bankrupting all business in totality), you would still only pay for ONE YEAR of spending under Obama and just barely (but only if you make everyone else kick in $38 as well).

I would think we should ignore this sideshow and focus on how to actually fix the problem. Two things, particularly. Stop the Fed from crashing the dollar (printing money out of thin air). Root out those who abuse the aid programs..and all forms of wasteful spending, for that matter.
If people focus on this, instead of half of the country being at the throats of the other half, we might make it thru any collapse that may occur.

deertracker

Give it a rest with the "free stuff". It's a tired campaign talking point that failed. The Cons lost the battle and the "bigger war" and that is why they may be done for decades.

the office cat

Anybody studied the Whigs? Interesting.

DBDBDB

Free Stuff is a campaign strategy by Obama that won the election (barely) for him. Free abortion, free birth control, free healthcare, more foodstamps, welfare...on and on and on. The problem is the takers, do now or will soon, outnumber the providers (taxpayers). So instead of cutting spending, which any smart person would do, or creating more taxpayers (jobs) this miserable failure of a President can only do what democrats always do, raise taxes. Remember Socialism only works until you run out of other peoples money. Obama will make us all equal eventually, all broke and hopeless.

tk

Obama won by three and a half million votes, if you want to call that barely.In the electoral votes he won by a landslide. The people have spoken. Give it a rest.

rickross2

We'll see how all this works for you Barry supporters.

the office cat

You need to do some reading - and listening - especially to the rightwing news sources.
EVEN Paul Ryan is backing away from the 'takers' mantra. he even says we need to take care of the Middle Class.
Ruh Roh!!

verdict

When did Paul Ryan ever say that we need to NOT take care of them? I know, I know. Unless it is the Democrat way (socioeconomic collapse), they haven't been "taken care of," right?

Randy_Marsh

Boehner stated and proposed to close the loopholes, Obama does not care except to parade around the fact that the rich are being taxed more. The Rich on the other hand have lawyers to use the loopholes that are still there. Yeah we all know Obama won the presidency, So hold him accountable for his term in office. His proposal is the same one he has already proposed and was turned down by even the democrats. http://www.washingtontimes.com/b... Guess those darn obstructionist killed that bill.

the office cat

Hmmmm. Do you refer to the 'budget' the president submitted, knowing full well it would go down? You must be one of the few who didn't realize it was a hoax.
Sad

goofus

So the president of the united states has time between vacations and golf to make up a "joke" budget????

Randy_Marsh

I am glad you clarified that the budget the senate and the house wasted their time voting on was a presidential "Hoax" Awesome! Now we all know this new proposition that was the same is a "hoax" as well and he is just waiting to pass the limit and blame someone else, But now we know it is a hoax and he is not taking anything seriously it is his fault when we hit the debt limit and get downgraded again and people start getting fired. Good joke, Sort of like his entire administration.

Contango

Put Mr. Obama's intial proposal before the HOR and the Senate:

$1.6 trillion in tax increases up front,

50 billion in additional stimulus spending,

a permanent increase in the federal debt ceiling,

a one-year expansion of jobless benefits,

and an extension of the payroll tax credit,

He may have "won," but it wouldn't pass either house.

Where's the reduction is spending?

2012 - $16T in debt

2016 - $20T in debt.

http://www.cnbc.com/id/50016612/...

U.S. Debt Clock:

http://www.usdebtclock.org/

The Big Dog's back

Let the cliff come! Sock it to the rich! Yeah baby!

the office cat

Point?
And of course, the Debt Ceiling no longer will be in the Congress' province.
Gotta love it!

goofus

Constitution be damned huh catnip!!!!

Randy_Marsh

@Officecat
You really hate that checks and balance thing dont you? That is the reason the rest of us think you are insane and do not have a clue about anything, You want to live in a dictatorship with your lord and savior in charge. Reminds me of one of those brainless national socialist who brought in Der Furher.

KURTje

"Only the little people pay taxes." Leona Helmsley. Wonder how she voted? Or just let US have the same health care Nancy Reagan has, we've worked harder than her.

jon491

Didn't know they could send ballots to HELL.

the office cat

good one!

the office cat

@Kurt... Ignorance is bliss.... so you must be ecstatic!!! Helmsley died in 2007! ...and she's not buried in Chicago!! (had to say it first).
Why not the health care of all those Bushes?

Contango

“Michael Milken, Martha Stewart and Leona Helmsley share something in common besides being convicted felons — they are all Democrats. While their wealth sets them apart from the typical felon, their party registration is the same as most former convicts.”

http://www.newsmeat.com/fec/byst...

http://www.humanevents.com/2007/...

Randy_Marsh

Its always funny that the liberals will scream about the rich paying more, Yet continue to re-elect rich guys who havent paid taxes. Take for example Charlie Rangle, They keep electing him but want to hold everyone else to the flames. http://online.wsj.com/article/SB...

The Big Dog's back

Bernie Madoff, Jack Abramhoff, Dennis Kozlowski, G. Gordon Liddy, H.R. Halderman, and thousands more all have one thing in common. All Repubs? All jailbirds.

Randy_Marsh

If they were democrats they would be in the Admin by now huh?

Contango

"Bernard L. Madoff Investment Securities, gave $372,100 in campaign contributions since 1991, with 89 percent to Democrats."

http://www.opensecrets.org/news/...

the office cat

hmmmm. Leona's dead (and gave her dog $12 million - dog is dead too) since 2007.
Milken has been 'dead' since 1993 of terminal cancer but jsut refuses to lie down.
Stewart did her time for the same thing several GOPs did who continued serving in Congress - and she's bigger than ever.
Point?

Randy_Marsh

Do you mourn for a fellow democrat office cat?

2cents's picture
2cents

(The charming woman with the dazzling and cute smile–Debbie Wasserman Schultz–recently attacked Mitt Romney for outsourcing jobs during his tenure at Bain and for investments he has made overseas, going so far as to say it would be nice if he was “committed to America.”

This of course is part of the left’s plan of dividing Americans along class lines to hold onto power–the age old proletariat versus the bourgeoise plan which has been implemented with great success (for the ruling class, those who were the ruled didn’t make out so well) in Europe in the past.

Here is what Schultz had to say about Mitt Romney:)

http://americaswatchtower.com/20...

donutshopguy

This fiscal cliff nonsense has got to stop. The amount of money they are talking about won't run the government for a week. This is more of a fiscal bump.

There is a fiscal cliff but this is just smoke and mirrors by Washington.

Contango

It won't be long before $100M annualized income will be the new $250K.

Soc. Security contributions, the Federal income tax and AMT all started out as taxes only for the rich.

It's gotta trickle down to the middle class, 'cause they're the biggest group of wage earners.

Like rats climbing over one another trying to get off a sinking ship wherein they all ultimately drown.

the office cat

Point?

the office cat

donut... finally someone understands.

Contango

@ 2cents:

As I've written many times: Public union employee pension trusts like giants Calpers and Calstrs invest billions of dollars with hedge funds, private equity and directly overseas.

Where's the outcry?

http://www.calpers.ca.gov/eip-do...

http://www.calpers.ca.gov/index....

http://www.calpers.ca.gov/index....

2cents's picture
2cents

C, your links are not working?

Contango

@ 2cents:

Working on my end. Start with the search?

http://www.google.com/search?sou...

2cents's picture
2cents

Right click then open works.

The Big Dog's back

So what?

the office cat

Point?

KURTje

Moderators have removed this comment because it contained Personal attacks (including: name calling, presumption of guilt or guilt by association, insensitivity, or picking fights).

verdict

Moderators have removed this comment because it contained Personal information and Libel and defamation.

The Big Dog's back

Why didn't you elect Ron Paul in 2000? or 2004?

the office cat

good question...

Randy_Marsh

We libertarians were out voted by frick, Now that Frack is in office they seem to think they are better. The joke here is the dems think they elected a god when even the republicans didnt worship bush.

the office cat

Republicans still are worshiping at the St. Ron shrine. Notice no retired Republican presidents were at the Convention or utilized in the campaign?

goofus

point?

mikel

not more than 20 minutes ago i was in the grocery store. the girl in front of me buys an ice cream pie and 2 snickers candy bars with her ohio directions card.

as long as that can continue to happen i hope that the gop never agrees to any deal with the man who occupies the white house!

The Big Dog's back

Are you really that jealous?

tk

No ice cream or candy for the poor?

the office cat

"Let them eat cake."

mikel

not on taxpayer money. you see, then the fat slobs will start having health problems that the taxpayer will have to pay for.

the office cat

What was in your basket?

goofus

point?

mikel

milk, that i paid for with MY money that I EARNED.

2cents's picture
2cents

I bought ice cream 30 min ago. They never take their EBT receipts so I started collecting them from the machines to write off as overhaed :)

the office cat

So Republican Fraud is okay?

2cents's picture
2cents

LOL, where is the real fraud?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=...

jon491

Everyone should watch THIS!

the office cat

Meeeowwwwwrrr!
This is better than catnip!

Randy_Marsh

Office cat
Of course it is to a Obama supporter, They seem to love dividing people, Running up debts, Blaming everyone but themselves and praying to a man made god. Just think, The tax rates will rise and you will have to pay for once. When it happends we will know who to blame.

the office cat

Oh! Oh! Throw me more!!! You need to read your posts! I'm not dividing anyone. I'm not predicting doom and gloom. We are suggesting greater equality in access to the American Dream. You don't hear us talking about our gold and our invetments and our reluctance to pay a bit more for all our bounty.

Randy_Marsh

Office cat
Really? I agree you do not talk about gold and investments and not wanting to pay taxes. You call people racist, Teabaggers, fascist ect ect. Despise the rich as you say "Make them pay but keep my taxes the same" and hold everyone who disagrees with you as a enemy of the state that your god should be allowed to kill. If thats no division i do not know what is.

the office cat

Wow! Take a coupla days to move the gold, make the donations, plan the celebrations and look what happens.
1. Yeah. I'll call out a racist whenever I read one. But race is not only about color.
2. When one spouts Tea Party philosophies and call themselves Patriots (which the originals never called themselves) I merely point it out. And even though 'teabagger' ruined a perfectly good word, it's very appropriate - especially when they tell people who disagree that the First Amendment does not extend to them.
3. Check the definition of 'fascist'.
4. I don't despise the rich. God knows we need them. But I don't believe that my effective tax rate should be half that of the 98%.
5. And that last comment about "your God should be allowed to kill" is slander with malice and if the Moderator doesn't remove it I will take the action necessary. (And I CAN afford the battle).

Randy_Marsh

fas·cism
[fash-iz-uh m] Show IPA

noun
1.
( sometimes initial capital letter ) a governmental system led by a dictator having complete power, forcibly suppressing opposition and criticism, regimenting all industry, commerce, etc., and emphasizing an aggressive nationalism and often racism.

2.
( sometimes initial capital letter ) the philosophy, principles, or methods of fascism.

3.
( initial capital letter ) a fascist movement, especially the one established by Mussolini in Italy 1922–43.
Who wants to circumvent the constitution and checks and balances to create a all powerful dictator with no rules and a huge centralized government? Cheer on sheep, You are creating the exact thing you rally against. So are you going to forcibly oppresse differenting opinions now? Read the definition.

goofus

.

the office cat

POINT.

coasterfan

Many Republicans are living in a fantasy world in which they can ignore all evidence that their economic ideas don't help the economy, and don't help anyone except the ultra-rich. They ignore the fact that their party lost the election, and somehow think that their minority viewpoint should trump that of the majority. Each day, a few more GOP congressmen defect, yet the local yokels still rant as if their party is holding all the trump cards. Amazing...

2cents's picture
2cents

Not a huge gap Coaster, like many like to beleive!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Uni...

The Big Dog's back

It was a blowout victory for Obama cents.

goofus

We the people of this great country pride ourselves in our compassion. Those people that weren't getting Obozo gifts merely gave O a second chance due to the inherent compassion we all have. In baseball you get three strikes and in california felons get three chances so why shouldn't the felon in the white house get at least one more chance judging by the recent election!!!!!

shucks

@goofus

That was a goofy post.

"We the people of this great country pride ourselves in our compassion"...(Not the GOP or the wealthy).

"Those people that weren't getting Obozo gifts merely gave O a second chance due to the inherent compassion we all have"...Really? The 2%ers and the wealthy voted Obama in? (ridiculous)

"felon in the white house "...(You dont know squat)

goofus

Deary me, sad so very sad, imagine a free thinking human being who has shunned a group of people as having no compassion without any ascertainable proof. If 4 shizzle says it, it has to be true. Wasn't it a republican president who has done more for the progress of halting aids. Just this past aids day he was remembered as the american president that has done more for the poor in africa than any other!!!!!
His name was G.W. Bush.
Felon on my part was a little harsh, one has to be convicted first and his day might come, but he is a lawyer!!!

shucks

mr. goofus

Are you new to this planet?

goofus

Sad response, so very sad. Brainwashed in liberalism and reared in the shallow end of the gene pool.

shucks

gee that hurt. NOT!

goofus

Sorry, wasn't meant to hurt, just illuminate to the other readers your true personality.

shucks

You're not sorry, it didn't hurt (pity you to think so) and Im sure the other readers have you figured out also.

Later Goofus

the office cat

Ah goofus: "felon...one has to be convicted first..."
I'm assuming you refer to the likes of Cheney and your beloved GW Bush who cannot leave the country because they are convicted felons to be arrested on sight.
Well, if our Democrat president tried to help the poor in Africa it would be 'proof' of his Kenyan Muslim heritage.
What kind of ascertainable would you like? GOP defeat or filibuster of VAWA, Equal Pay, extended unemployment benefits, AIDS research, breast cancer early detection... how many more? And there was that vow to 'make this a one-term president'...

Contango

"Obama’s Tax Increases Will Find the Middle Class":

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/20...

"You must love Big Brother. It is not enough to obey him, you must love him." - "Nineteen-Eighty Four"

The Big Dog's back

winnie, the election's over. You lost.

Centauri

I found something very disturbing on the internet, something that America's main stream news is not writing about. It appears that American political activists are now being poisoned to silence them. It is listed under the Economy And Society blog. The comment is about one American who fled the country and is seeking political asylum in Europe. It is an interesting read about the CIA going after American political activists. I will be researching this much further. Those who don't care where this once great nation is heading need not read the information. Those who care should read the story. There are a couple of youtube videos posted by the author also.

http://blog.heidi-barathieu-brun...

http://cleveland.indymedia.org/n...

2cents's picture
2cents

But, But, But MR. President, you said something totally different!!!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a...

Tickle me when the recession is over please

Contango

@ 2cents:

Mr. Obama is a "wordsmith." Typical for an attorney.

Remember Mr. Clinton's famous phrase?

"It depends on what the meaning of the word 'is', is."

According to the NBER, the U.S. has been out of recession since June '09.

D*mn the economy - tax hikes ahead!

Here's my take:

70% of U.S. GDP is made up of consumer spending. Approx. 30% of consumer spending is done by the rich.

Tax 'em more and GDP will decline accordingly, maybe 1-2%.

Well if GDP is only growing at about 2% (lousy), what effect do you think that will have on the economy???

2cents's picture
2cents

(C)
I will go back after Christmas and ask the jeweler if the 60% of his lost small business customers come in this year!

the office cat

OOOPS, Contango 'ignorance alert'. CJ Roberts routinely states that thing about what 'is' is. Persons who understand the law, understand the importance of meaning and context. Go read a few 10,000 pages of judicial dicta.
I think we need to realize that the only thing trickling down is something with a strongly yellow hue.

shucks

2cents

12years of Bush tax breaks have damaged the USA

Contango

@ 4shizzle:

But according Mr. Obama, the Bush Era tax breaks for 98% of the population are OK?

Some "damage." :)

shucks

@con

The 2% ers own 98% of the wealth. Is a plutocracy OK?

Reads like damage :(

Contango

@ 4shizzle:

"The 2% ers own 98% of the wealth."

Got a "credible" source for this nonsense?

BTW: If you earn $48K annually, you are in the top 1% of income earners in the WORLD.

Americans are spoiled, rich whiners. We are a nation of "Haves" and "Have Mores."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lis...(nominal)_per_capita

shucks

@contango

"The 2% ers own 98% of the wealth."Got a "credible" source for this nonsense?"
Google it,(could be 95%--sue me).

"BTW: If you earn $48K annually, you are in the top 1% of income earners in the WORLD."
Apples and oranges and smoke.

"Americans are spoiled, rich whiners. We are a nation of "Haves" and "Have Mores."
You like to quote statements and sound bites- do you recognize yourself?

Contango

@ 4shizzle:

Not surprised that you can’t produce any facts for your nonsense.

Even 95% is absurd.

http://articles.latimes.com/2012...

Mr. Obama has increased foreign aid spending. Guess he doesn't think that redistributing American wealth worldwide is a&o.

http://www.politifact.com/truth-...

shucks

@ contango
I know not to send you any links because you don't read them anyway.
Heck, I doubt if you read your own links.
You don't care about facts, you just like to rant and rave and try to dominate with your opinions.

goofus

and years of reckless spending has almost wiped us off the map,a progressive dream

goofus

4shizzle must be for the new trickle up theory from the poor people

shucks

@goofus

You dont care about facts, you just want to rant and rave.

goofus

Huh????? Seems to me I am not citing facts without it actually being a fact.

shucks

goofus
Quoting you: "and years of reckless spending has almost wiped us off the map,a progressive dream" --was enough evidence to me that you've blamed everything on Obama and George Bush had nothing to do with our economy.
Unless you are stupid; that was very dishonest and unfair thinking.

goofus

Bush had a hand in it,every time he reached out to the other side of the aisle, No Child Left With A Brain comes to mind.

shucks

'No Republican With A Brain Left' is maybe what you're thinking of?

Later Goofus

goofus

No it's child, much like yourself. You remember Bush working with the swimmer Kennedy. Now that the chinese bought 7 billion in USA assets we see Obozo bowing down to the head chi-con.

Contango

@ Centauri:

NDAA, The Patriot Act and the killing of Americans without due process on foreign soil who are deemed "terrorists" should be a heads up for most.

We are in the Endless War. If the govt. doesn't have enemies, it makes them.

A U.S. carrier is off the coast of Syria; looks like the U.S. may invade because of WMD - The Bush Doctrine just morphed into the Obama Doctrine.

So when did Syria attack the U.S.?

"US, French Troops Prepare For Syria Invasion In Response To "Chemical Weapons" Threat"

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/20...

Centauri

It is time to bring home the troops to fight the domestic terrorists that are killing Americans right here in America and at the same time destroying this once great nation from within.

Centauri

@ Contango, Thanks for that link. You are one of several voices of reason here with good informative truthful news. More wars are on the horizon.

the office cat

What you been drinkin'?

The Big Dog's back

winnie, the election's over.

Randy_Marsh

@Big dog
But the killing isnt huh? Because Obama won a election does not give him the right to abuse citizens no matter what you obama worshipers think.

shucks

@marsh

What are you referring to? The death of that American (in name only) high-level, al Qaeda terrorist? Again?

Give a link to what you are referring to.

Randy_Marsh

Well there is Abdulrahman al-Awlaki, 16 years old and a citizen. even the ACLU doesnt agree with his messiahship drone killing anyone he wants to. http://www.motherjones.com/mojo/...
Neat thing about the internet, You can look up stuff yourself sometimes.

shucks

@marsh
What's 16 yr. old American citizen doing in Yemen?(probably a 20 something of military age-- read article)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abd...
Yeah, aint the Internet neat?

Randy_Marsh

@4shizzle
Because his dad was a terrorist, Plain a simple. Was he? He was a US citizen who was denied his right to a fair trial as accorded to him through the constitution on the word of the president. That is murder as he was not in a combat zone and a non combatant.

the office cat

You still beatin' this horse? If you lie down with dogs you get up with fleas. If you reside with known terrorists you have to expect to share their fate.
I read everything you suggested... didn't see any affirmative statement he was non-combatant.

Randy_Marsh

Office cat
The ACLU dissagrees, You Obama worshippers are truly sick.

the office cat

OMG The Right citing the ACLU?
Oh. And theres' the namecallilng again... first sign of a loser.

the office cat

OMG The Right citing the ACLU?
Oh. And theres' the namecallilng again... first sign of a loser.

Randy_Marsh

the office cat
Thu, 11/29/2012 - 2:32pm
"All you TEAlemmings and Firelands Patriots"
Wanna do this? Actually you are more of a Bush supporter than I am.

shucks

@marsh
Did you read the article? NO.
Wrong place, wrong time, tough shight.

Randy_Marsh

@4shizzle
Yeah i have read up on it, He was targeted. So i can expect you to not get a lawyer if you are faulsly accused and just go straight to jail for a indefinate amount of time on der furhers word? Sad people are willing to give up their rights so easily.

the office cat

Whooooa! That was part of the Bush doctrine.

Randy_Marsh

Obviously YOU agree with it.

Contango

@ 4shizzle:

Yea, who cares about the innocent men, women and children that Pres. Obama is killing with his drones?

http://rt.com/news/pakistan-civi...

Hey! We've been beefin' up in Africa - more innocent people for Mr. Obama to murder.

http://www.voanews.com/content/u...

Butchering innocents and helping to improve the worldview of America.

Do drone strikes qualify Mr. "I won" for another Nobel Peace Prize?

shucks

@con

Romney would have gotten us in all kinds of wars if he was elected.

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