Ohio lawmakers consider family planning bill

State lawmakers moved forward Wednesday with a bill that would send Planned Parenthood to the back of the line for public family-planning money, even as crowds of chanting protesters lined the Statehouse halls to oppose the measure.
Associated Press
Nov 15, 2012

 

The Health and Aging Committee planned a vote later Wednesday on the bill, which would then go to the House floor. The Senate would take up the measure after Thanksgiving at the earliest.

Chairman Lynn Wachtmann, a Republican from Napoleon, said he expected the panel to support the measure.

Protesters in pink T-shirts chanted "Hear us now!" as they packed the hall outside the committee's meeting. Some were staffers of Planned Parenthood. Other protesters wore shirts reading "Women are Watching."

State Sen. Nina Turner, a Cleveland Democrat, said at a news conference on the bill that Republicans in the Statehouse were ignoring the message sent by women with last week's re-election of Democratic President Barack Obama.

"It is absolutely immoral and unconscionable what the GOP is doing," Turner said. "They have not learned their lesson. They are at it again, but it is our job to teach them."

She said Planned Parenthood provides needed preventive health care to low-income women that would be jeopardized by the bill.

Wachtmann said other quality providers of women's health care have sprung up around the state and the bill would give those centers a chance at government funds.

"We have the potential of a lot bigger offering to a lot more women," he said. "This thought that the way everything is today is the best way to do it is just such an archaic thought."

Republican Senate President Tom Niehaus said his caucus is mulling the bill, as well as what action — if any — to take on another measure that would ban most abortions after the first detectable heartbeat. The so-called heartbeat bill, which has cleared the House and is stalled in the Senate, was another target of the Statehouse protesters, many of them female, on Wednesday.

NARAL Pro-Choice Ohio director Kellie Copeland said if that bill passes, the protests in Columbus will only get bigger and louder.

Asked what message on women's issues he took away as a Republican from last week's presidential election, Niehaus left that to others.

"There are a lot of pundits talking about what the election meant. What I try to stay focused on is what's important to Ohio right now, and that's jobs," he said. "I mean, what are we doing to help make Ohio the right place for people to start companies, employ people, and how do they go about getting jobs? That's where I want to keep the focus in the Senate."

 

Comments

Contango

The OH Repubs obviously did not hear the message sent on Nov. 6 - debt be d*mned.

We want it and we want it now! Just put it on the state's tab.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a...

deertracker

Some people never listen! Pay attention!

SamAdams

If Obamacare ends up going into full effect, why does Planned Parenthood even need to EXIST let alone be funded in any part by tax dollars?

Given a choice, at least Planned Parenthood is PARTIALLY private and PARTIALLY privately funded. But still...

ladydye_5

I have wondered the same thing. Obamacare is supposed to take care of all the needs, Planned Parenthood would be unneeded. Doesn't Obamacare cover preventative care, birth control, scans and tests, etc?

Contango

@ ladydye_5:

The magical Land of ObamaKare will increase the number of Americans covered and improve the quality of services all for reduced costs.

A business can only offer three things:

Price,
Quality or
Service

Pick two, because it's economically impossible to provide all three without reducing the value or increasing the cost of the remaining one.

ladydye_5

I think Obamacare is a big scam anyway. Personally I do NOT support it at all. I agree things need fixed but the way most of Obamacare was shoved thru is WRONG. I also do NOT understand why the PRESIDENT of the United States and Congress need to be invovled with MY VAGINA! I hope they also cut viagra and all the other ED treatments out of coverage also. I do not agree with the more will be covered bullhockey. Many businesses are cutting hours worked to fall under the radar, and not be forced to offer insurance. And as for the QUALITY of service, will my DOCTOR and I make decisions on tests, medications, treatments, or will some GOVERNMENT bureaucrat make the decision on what is CHEAPEST and approved?

Randy_Marsh

The easy answer is "They will go the cheapest"

deertracker

Well if Romney had won that is exactly what the plan was. It took a long time to get the ACA passed. It wasn't shoved. It was the CONS that wanted to regulate your body not the President. It's not about how many hours a person works it is about the number of employees an employer has. The bureaucrat you are worried about getting in your healtcare business does not work for the government, he/she works for the insurance company.

Contango

@ deertracker:

Without nationalized health care where the govt. owns and operates all healthcare provided, ObamaKare IS a windfall for many health ins. companies.

Many analysts recommended buying their stocks if Obama won. The "joke" as usual, is on you. LMAO!!!

http://www.investopedia.com/stoc...

deertracker

The "joke" as usual is YOU!

SamAdams

You think Obamacare is a big scam because it IS a big scam. Prohibitively expensive, too! There were other ways to address the problems in the system. The socialists just refused to consider anything but socialism.

Politics has nothing to do with your vagina (or mine) unless, of course, it buys votes. And apparently there are quite a few less-than-intelligent young women out there who think with that particular body part instead of their brain!

Businesses are cutting hours because of the "prohibitively expensive" part of Obamacare. Taxes will rise to cover the accompanying cost increases for Medicaid (not to mention the "credits" from the government for those who can't afford 100% of the cost of insurance premiums). If you've seen some of the rates, by the way, the vast majority of the middle class WON'T be able to afford the premiums without becoming members of the lower class!

Meanwhile, quality will decline. Availability will decline even more. And you'll be lucky to have a doctor to work with you at ALL given the number of health professionals that are also leaving the market because of the onerous provisions of Obamacare. But if you ARE lucky, and you DO have a doctor, then no. You will not be making decisions for yourself. Your contention that a bureaucrat will go with the cheapest and the approved is exactly right.

Gosh, can't IMAGINE why so many of us are so dead set against Obamacare! Saw a bumper sticker on my walk this morning that says, "I Heart Obamacare." I actually opened up my mouth and said, "You WON'T!"

deertracker

BLAH, BLAH, BLAH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

SamAdams

That the best you got???

Maybe YOU can tell me why business are cutting jobs and/or cutting hours, then. Or perhaps you can tell everybody why the administrative commission being formed to oversee Obamacare WON'T be overseeing Obamacare. If you've got some indication that Obamacare WON'T raise premiums (Ohio is estimated to be going up 50% to 80% — I can't imagine I'm the ONLY one who thinks that's pretty significant!), then let's see it. I won't be holding my breath...

Contango

@ SamAdams:

Not-to-worry, the 78 million baby boomers (mostly increasingly aging white people) will be comin' home to roost for all these Obamabot geniuses.

One major issue is: Most residents' coverage in nursing homes is paid for through Medicaid (free) to the tune of about $100K annually.

The Obamabots will have a continually greater share of their income taken in taxes to support their healthcare needs.

Age demographics are controlling the economic future of this country.

They will discover the true meaning of the word "free."

deertracker

Well, if you should ever need the services of a nursing home, how will you pay? There's only two ways. Self pay or medicaid! You got hundreds of thousands of dollars for that Mr. Wall St.? You must be a Johnsonbot since you wasted your vote on him.

Contango

@ deertracker:

The vast majority of boomers are reaching retirement age financially broke.

There's 78 million of 'em (x $100K annually) and you'll get to help pay of their care.

Work hard; a lot of old white people are gonna need your money. :)

Don't worry about me bambie.

deertracker

Moderators have removed this comment because it contained Remarks that discriminate based on age, race, religion, disability, etc..

Contango

@ deertracker:

Nope. I know how to work taxes do you? Even Mr. Obama's "tax the rich" garbage ain't gonna affect me much.

Besides, I'm going to get YOUR money. You'll be helping to pay for my Soc. Security and Medicare soon enough.

Too bad that these programs probably won't be there for you isn't it?

Dontcha just love these liberal Ponzi schemes?

Work hard now.

44846GWP

ponzi schemes ponzi schemes ponzi schemes ponzi schemes.................

the office cat

THIS ONE gets removed but the comment which prompted it gets to stay? I call...

the office cat

THIS ONE gets removed but Contango's gets to stay?

the office cat

contango: Yup. Us Baby Boomers have raised havoc with the financial systems since our daddies came home from the war and made up for lost time by crankin out babies almost yearly. The country had to build bigger schools for us. Colleges and universities had to build dormitories and classrooms and scholarship/loan programs for us. We launched a homebuilding boom as farm fields sprouted ticky tacky houses in Suburbia. We are responsible for the two-car family and the two-income household, and we fed the technology boom as we bought Pong and then more elaborate computers.
The one thing we did wrong was that wretched Family Planning. We replaced ourselves and maybe one additional - and thereby screwed ourselves. While we were busy being the 'meat' in the 'Sandwich Generation' caring for our parents and our children and not realizing there wouldn't be as many to pay into SS when we needed it after Johnson and Reagan and others raided the Trust Fund and never repaid it.
And now we're aging. Thanks to the scientific, medical, and technological advances for which we were responsible, we're going to live a lot longer.
And folks like you who hoarded your funds are now going to have to pay for the rest of us who were the most generous, charitable of all generations.

reese

Office Cat...thanks for the re-cap of my life! I have often tried to explain this to younger people. So now, here we come, the aging Baby Boomers. None of us want to be a burden on our families or on others. We will do what we can to take care of ourselves as long as possible, because many of us have taken care of our parents and understand how difficult that is. Hopefully, like other life stages we have gone through that changed the approach of provision of services, it will happen again and American innovation will respond, so that we aren't forced to live with our children or stuck going to nursing homes, and will have access to affordable care, services and supports in our own homes.

deertracker

Has your premium went up? Did it go up last year or the year before that? They always go up regardless of what is happening. You guys want to blame Obama for EVERYTHING when in reality it is far more helpful than harmful. I can't wait until Obama puts all you haters in your place. It's going to happen....just watch.

JMOP's picture
JMOP

When and where is this going to happen? Where is my place according to you?
My premiums went up this year, the first time in 6 years. Your right though, it will keep going up now....wonder why?

deertracker

If your premiums have not increaed in six years you obviously have not been paying attention or you are telling a LIE! Stay tuned for the checkin'!

44846GWP

Your premiums have not gone up in the last six years? You LIE.

Contango

@ deertracker:

"In your place"? What does that mean? You must think that the guy is God.

So the Messiah jokes were true?

deertracker

Has GOD put you in your place lately?

Contango

@ deertracker:

Which one?

Did Jesus die for the Klingons? The govt. paid tax money to find out:

http://video.cnbc.com/gallery/?v...

deertracker

Yeah, yeah, yeah and Mary was a virgin too?

Contango

Moderators have removed this comment because it contained Profane, obscene, sexual or derogatory language.

the office cat

deer... not to the Mormons. 'God' had intercourse the 'common way' with Mary and begat Jesus as a totally separate being.

the office cat

Samadams et al: Richard Nixon attempted universal healthcare. Ronald Reagan attempted universal healthcare. Bill Clinton attempted universal health care. George II even had a universal health care plan. For almost five decades presidents and congresses have been attempting universal health care...affordable health care. Businesses are trying to accomplish with cuts in hours what couldn't be accomplished with the 'redistribution of wealth' of the Koch Bros, Sheldon Adelson et al.
Ya know, Bush and his GOP gave us Medicare Advantage - which is exactly what YOU talk about as a good solution. All that accomplished was make it almost mandatory for people to have 'supplemental insurance' to cover the donut hole when the Republicans passed yet ANOTHER unfunded mandate.

JMOP's picture
JMOP

This is a victory for us tax paying citizens in Ohio.
There is a Health Dept. in every county. They are cheap also.

Tourist

Planned Parenthood seemed to have a lot of money available to run ads on TV during the election, perhaps they should have saved some it to run their services.
Planned Parenthood's new game plan is to have mega-abortion clinics in large cities. From their website:
Nationwide, the cost at health centers ranges from about $300 to $950 for abortion in the first trimester. The cost is usually more for a second-trimester abortion. Costs vary depending on how long you've been pregnant and where you go.

Robert Banks

I'm all in favor of obambots aborting future presidential hopefuls.

Informed

Moderators have removed this comment because it contained Libel and defamation.

deertracker

Moderators have removed this comment because it contained Remarks that discriminate based on age, race, religion, disability, etc..

grandmasgirl

I wondered when one of you were going to play the race card.

9299

Why would we want to continue to be the only major economic power on the planet that doesn't offer universal healthcare? Also, if Niehaus is lasered in on legislation that will improve the job situation in Ohio, why is he pushing this Planned Parenthood and abortion legislation; no jobs to be created here. Typical, talk jobs and focus on abortion.

The Big Dog's back

The Repub party is a total joke and embarrassment to mankind.

SamAdams

In recent years and up to the current time, as deeply as it pains me to say it, I agree with you wholeheartedly. Of course, the same's true of the Democrat Party. Their evils and expenditures differ (a little), but the end result is the same: Politicians and government get more powerful while everybody else suffers.

Contango

@ SamAdams:

IMO, the last chance for the Repubs was 1964. Sen Goldwater was demonized and LBJ's foreign policy 'mistakes' caused him not to seek re-election four yrs. later.

The East Coast liberal wing of the party chose a direction not unlike the Dems.

IMO, time to "go Galt" and protect you and yours as best as possible.

FYI: A technical but very informative piece I read this morning:

http://seekingalpha.com/article/...

The Congressional Repubs could give Mr. Obama everything he wants and it won't make one iota of difference in the final result. It 'cannot' end well.

eriemom

I would like to educate folks about the so-called "Heart Beat Bill."
Have any of you dissected an animal and removed segments of heart tissue? It continues to "beat" for some time. The group of cells do not even need to be an organ. So basically, with really good equipment a heart beat can be found as soon as cardiac tissue differentiates in the embryo. It is still a group of cells.

verdict

You are no mother of mine.

Also, I linked the text of the Heartbeat Bill under Wiredmama's comment. Feel free to copy paste anything from it that you would like to educate us on..as this comment did nothing of the sort.

wiredmama222

This bill is telling women what they can and cannot do with their own bodies. It is just like what Romney said he wanted....to reverse Rowe VS Wade. The GOP will NEVER listen to anything else. They have this stuck in their craw, and it is part of their platform. As long as these people have this idea, it will remain part of their plans. They see it as their RIGHT; to tell woman what they can and cannot do with their own bodies.

This will set back the planned parenthood and abortion rights to what the GOP wanted all along. The Right to Life people have wanted this for some time now and slowly but surely they are winning their war. They have tried every angle possible and they finally have done what they set out to do: stop abortions.

They problem is, with stopping them they have cut out all the other things that go with that: the day after pill, the right to an abortion after rape, the right to abortion if you so chose for health reasons, the right to abortion if you chose NOT to carry your child.

Next will be the right to obtain contraceptive devises for low income women, and for those who cannot afford to pay the full price for those items. Even your so called Obamacare will not cover all this.

So who is going to pay for all these children born to the women who did not want to bear these children? Who is going to pay for the births? The care of these unwanted and ill conceived kids? Welfare is going to take an even bigger hit. So is children's services to say nothing of the role that future adoptive services will have to find homes for. Don't think for a second that some of these women won't give these kids up, especially when they didn't want to be pregnant in the first place.

This plan was not thoroughly thought through by the GOP. It could not have been. They can't FORCE these women to care for kids they didn't want nor plan for. So society is going to have to. I hope it's ready for that. And I hope it can stand to care for the ones that are born with birth defects that need special medical attention that costs hundreds of thousands of dollars. Because we are going to be paying for that as well.

Oh, yes, thanks, GOP. You really listen. You think you cornered the morality market and that you have the answers by withdrawing support for planned parenthood and getting rid of abortions and contraception? It would have been far more blessed had you listened to reason and come down off that high moral horse you have been riding for centuries. Come down to the realites of life and learned to listen to the REAL world for awhile.

Had you done so, you may have had an elected president this time around. Instead, you gave us the lesseer of two evils. Thanks a lot. You really should have just listened. How hard can that be?

verdict

Wiredmama (or any of you, for that matter), here is the Heartbeat Bill http://www.legislature.state.oh....
Can you show me where, in that bill, you find anything to support all of that War on Women garbage people keep reciting?

People really ought to read http://www.whyprolife.com/aborti... and also the pages linked at the bottom of it and THEN think..think about whether they really want to let abortions be given for every reason imaginable.
Don't you see what you are doing to our kids? The mindset that YOU are helping to enforce in them?

IF it ISN'T a medical emergency or a rape, then I see no reason why an abortion should be granted. See how quick society starts waking up if we crack down and regulate abortion in such a manner. See how quickly we would reverse the socioeconomic decline in America if, suddenly, personal responsibility "just got real."
And ask yourself if the type of woman (or man, for that matter) that disagrees with me is really the type of person who represents you.

reese

You know, Verdict, I read the legislation and there is no exception for rape or incest in there.

I personally don't understand the rationale for the heartbeat detection being the line that is drawn.

Beyond that I don't expect you to understand why these attempts at controlling women's decisions about issues concerning their bodies are so offensive.

verdict

Moderators have removed this comment because it contained Lengthy excerpts from other websites.

verdict

Sorry, Reese. My response to you has been deemed lengthy and off-topic. I suppose that would also mean that your reply (which I was replying to) is also off-topic.
Personally, I feel the moderator had an emotional reaction. Perhaps.

the office cat

@ verdict "IF it ISN'T a medical emergency or a rape..."
ONE QUESTION for the all-knowing Verdict. WHY is a child conceived in rape, incest or threatening the life/health of a mother ANY LESS ENTITLED to life? With the insertion of your 'If it isn't' comment you demonstrated your hypocrisy and fact that even you don't ascribe to "life begins at heartbeat" in these exceptions. Get thee behind us, Sata.

verdict

Uh, what? I am talking about fairness, not entitlement. How is it fair to force a raped woman to deliver the child of her rapist? She did not choose to have relations with him.
On a related note, rape is likely a temporary thing. Surely we will weed it out of society soon enough (as new technology emerges to combat it).

I did not mention incest, Reese did. In fact, I responded that incest should not even factor in because, unless it was a rape, it was between consenting adults.

I am NOT looking at this in any religious context. Maybe you are and that is why you can't seem to fathom my position.

verdict

BUT IF, after all of that (including reading the entire document/s I linked), you still feel "pro-choice" about it..then I think we have to be fair and begin to talk about equal "pro-choice" rights for men. Not every man feels ready for a child either, you know. Let us not be hypocrites.
We wouldn't have to force the woman to have an abortion, tho. We just make a law that says the woman can keep the child if she wants, or not..but the man is not legally responsible if he declares that he is not ready for a child.
Are you sure you wouldn't rather just crack down and bring personal responsibility back? You should know where this is going..in another generation or so. And people will have no one to blame but their own votes.

the office cat

@verdict... how about equal 'pro-choice' rights for embryonic children? How about rights of a child who will be born with a severe birth defect? Or a child who will be placed for closed adoption and have no right to knowledge of its heredity or identity? I'm still not sure of your motivation - it certainly isn't for the child AFTER birth.

verdict

Stop trying to avoid the issue with nonsensical and half-sensical rants.
If women can declare they are not ready for a child, men should get the same right. A movement will be started, you can count on that. It was in the works all along, I am sure.

verdict

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g... explains the procedure of a suction abortion, followed by an actual first trimester abortion as seen through ultrasound.
The viewer can see the child's pathetic attempts to escape the suction curette as her heart rate doubles, and a "silent scream" as her body is torn apart.

verdict

Do women need Planned Parenthood?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U...
Only for abortions, apparently. Everything else can be taken care of by your primary physician. "That's..what they're there for," as one PP employee explained..to one of the Indiana women calling to find out where they CAN still go with their Medicaid.
Want more? This next one is just epic. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a...

And the Obama Admin is threatening to cut Medicaid by $40 billion to Indiana if they de-fund PP. Now, THAT would leave low income women without access to those things..NOT the de-funding of PP, as some of his more thoughtless supporters have suggested.
Obama cares, huh? Riiight.

reese

Let's just say you just don't get any of this.

Planned Parenthood is a provider of health care, not an insurance company. So, whether there is Obamacare or not, providers are needed. Many women, especially low-income people, like Planned Parenthood because they are accessible in areas where this healthcare is needed. You can't really understand why a woman would prefer one health care provider over another, but many women and men,but especially women, who have used Planned Parenthood for preventative health care needs, feel very strongly about keeping them available for their health care needs.

verdict

YOU don't get it..the big picture, that is. I am not talking about Obamacare and I am not talking about insurance companies. I AM talking about providers.
One of the videos played recorded calls of PP employees saying they do not even provide certain services. And even IF they did, why should we fund a separate entity that offers the same services that your primary physician already provides?

I mean, seriously. A former director of Planned Parenthood, Abby Johnson, went on national television and admitted that PP is not focused on any type of preventative care at all!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6...
She, by the way, left PP..after she saw a baby, on ultrasound, trying to get away from the abortionist's instruments. She claims that Planned Parenthood doesn't want women, OR their own employees, to know what actually goes on during the abortions.

the office cat

@Verdict... 'Silent Scream' was debunked a decade ago as a 'manufactured' video. How dare you bring it up now except to declare war on children? Yeah, children. And in all your ramblings I haven't seen anything about all those embryos languishing in test tubes in some fertility clinic - children whose parents 'chose' to implant some and now have all they want and are leaving their 'snowbabies' to disintegrate. Until you address those 'citizens' and 'persons' you remain a hypocrit.

verdict

Debunked!? Says who? How can it be debunked when a former director of Planned Parenthood, Abby Johnsoon, made headlines when she told her story about how she decided to leave PP and join the Pro-Lifers when she watched a child (11 weeks in the womb), on the ultrasound, trying to escape the abortionist's instruments. This was a far more recent account.
Whatever helps you sleep, I guess. SMH.

By the way, why would you post a response about the silent scream thing under a comment that had nothing to do with it? Are you trying to distract from the overwhelming logic contained within the comment that you replied under?

verdict

Yes, I can understand it. It is not some great mystery. You are talking about a matter of comfort. Sorry, tho..we can't afford it.
And why would you ignore the fact that teh Obama Admin is threatening to cut 40 billion in Medicaid funding to Indiana if they defund PP? THEN those women won't even be able to afford those same services from their primary physician!

the office cat

@verdict. The Administration is not threatening to cut $40 billion in Medicaid funding to Indiana. Indiana always has known - as have other states - that there are stipulations to receiving said funding. They knew it five years ago when they decided to cut said funding for children with autism and similar conditions. Indiana has taken a radical right turn since Mitch Daniels (the new president of Purdue) took office.

verdict

So, how does that change the fact that, under Obama, everything I just said is still happening..regardless of who knew what and when.
Obama should step up and help those Indiana women if he claims to care.

My guess, he will not do so. Their preventative care will be held hostage because Obama is an abortion extremist. Most Americans do not even agree with his version of pro-choice. Partial-birth abortions, for instance.
Even some of his fellow Democrats were quoted as saying that his views are borderline infanticide.

verdict

Cue someone to flood the page with nonsensical and half-sensical rants to attempt to drown out the logic in all of my posts prior.
Oh, look..here's one now. It might even be entertaining, let's see.

the office cat

@Verdict. Keep it up! Us zygotes who were denied basic rights of identity, inheritance, knowledge, crucial medical information in adulthood - citizenship by natural-born - are on YOUR side. Let's declare an embryo with a beating heart a person with all the citizenship rights appended to such status.
And yes, a person with a beating heart could not be denied identity or inheritance just because Citizen X was being placed for adoption. Citizen X would be allowed to inherit wealth along with its siblings. Citizen X would be allowed to use its family name(s). Citizen X would have access to medical history not existant at adoption - onset of heart disease, mental disorders, dementia, birth defects, genetic cancers that appear later in life - in the interest of protecting Citizen X's right to life.
Illegal immigration no longer will be a problem - anchor babies now would be children conceived in the US. The 'natural born' clause for presidents in the Constitution would be void - and THERE WOULD BE NO MORE BIRTHERS! Citizen X would receive a "Certificate of Conception" or "Certificate of Heartbeat".

The only downside to all this? Any 'heartbeat citizen' being guaranteed right to life would, by law, be entitled to legal representation to assure the parents are providing properly AND to assure all citizenship right such as inheritance, etc.
Of course the government would be required to provide the legal representation as Citizen X will have to financial means.

the office cat

Cabdrivers favor this bill because it will mean a return to one of the most lucrative side ventures - clotheshanger abortions in back alleys. How many among Verdict and others remember the generations before Roe v. Wade? How many know a 'thalidomide baby'? "Personal responsibility"/ What's that? Not driving after drinking? Not wearing a helmet? Not blowing tobacco smoke in a confined area? Taking your hat off in church?

the office cat

Cabdrivers favor this bill because it will mean a return to one of the most lucrative side ventures - clotheshanger abortions in back alleys. How many among Verdict and others remember the generations before Roe v. Wade? How many know a 'thalidomide baby'? "Personal responsibility"/ What's that? Not driving after drinking? Not wearing a helmet? Not blowing tobacco smoke in a confined area? Taking your hat off in church?

reese

I for one remember things before Roe v. Wade. Abortions still existed...girls tried to self-abort babies, back alley abortions were the norm for poor or frightened girls, and those from wealthy families still had access to abortions. Or, young unmarried girls and women carried their babies to term and carried the shame of their situation around with the baby. I often see comments made about girls/women who have had children out of wedlock quite often on this website. I see comments about how wrong it is that the taxpayers have to pay for these children. Seems hypocritical to me to condemn women for having their babies and also condemn those who choose to have an abortion. It makes no sense to me.

But, many women prefer going to Planned Parenthood for preventative care, because of the lower cost, easier access, and the kind of care that they receive. Sometimes young women or men are not comfortable going to their primary care physician for the care that they can receive from Planned Parenthood. They should have that choice.

verdict

@Reese Again, I have never heard of any epidemic of back alley abortions. Perhaps in some cesspool such as various areas within NYC or LA (and the like), but..that would not qualify as "the norm" for America at large (not anywhere near it).
Either way, tho..it still would not be indicative of the results that a crackdown would achieve in the era of the present (a crackdown which could be announced a year in advance of implementation). It would be a different ballgame with the threat of murder charges (except in the case of rape or medical emergencies).

---Reese: "Seems hypocritical to me to condemn women for having their babies and also condemn those who choose to have an abortion."
---Verdict: I guess it WOULD seem that way when you are lumping them all into one group whom you refer to as people "who have their babies." You are missing the entire point..which is that they are only criticizing those men and women who engage in unprotected sex before they "have their house in order."

reese

Verdict, I don't know how old you are but Roe v. Wade was decided by the Supreme Court in 1973, making abortion legal in all states. Prior to that, four states allowed abortions starting in 1970. It was illegal in Ohio and 45 other states. If a girl/woman lived in Ohio or one of the other states where abortion was still illegal, and she wanted to have an abortion,she either went to a back alley abortionist, tried a self-induced abortion or traveled to New York (the only state that allowed nonresidents to have abortions)if she could afford to do this and had a way to get there. I guess in the 60's, wealthy women could travel to England and get a legal, safe abortion. If a girl was in high school and became pregnant, she had to leave school and sometimes, when her family was too embarrassed, she would have to go to a home for unwed mothers until she had her baby. Lots of people had unprotected sex(and still do) and the forms of birth control back then were not as effective as they are today. It was not just in "some cesspool such as various areas within NYC or LA." You need to read up on the history of abortion in America. Per the Guttmacher Institute, "during the 1950's and 1960's the number of illegal abortions performed in the United States ranged from 200,000 to 1.2 million per year. Since abortion was illegal, the incidence is most likely underestimated. In 1930, 1/5 of all maternal deaths officially listed abortion as the cause of death. Abortion was illegal at this time.

Abortion was "Generally permitted at the nation's founding and for several decades thereafter, the procedure was made illegal under most circumstances in most states beginning in the mid-1800s. In the 1960s, states began reforming their strict antiabortion laws, so that when the Supreme Court made abortion legal nationwide, legal abortions were already available in 17 states under a range of circumstances beyond those necessary to save a woman's life." (Guttmacher Institute, The Guttmacher Report on Public Policy March 2003, Volume 6, Number 1)

My point is, people will continue to have sexual relationships outside of marriage and before they "have their house in order." Sometimes they will not use protection, sometimes they will use protection that is not that effective, and sometimes they will not use protection correctly. The only 100% effective birth control method is abstenence.

Organizations like Planned Parenthood are comfortable, affordable, trusted, accessible places where folks can go where they will receive education and preventative services to help prevent unintended pregnancies.

verdict

Ahem. I hope you wrote that last paragraph BEFORE reading the final comment I made below (with the Live Action Films channel link to a SLEW of video footage showing the kind of things that go on at Planned Parenthood). If not, then I dunno what anyone can say to excuse you.
Planned Parenthood is "trusted?" No. Planned Parenthood should have NO trust, whatsoever..after everything that Live Action Films has exposed with VIDEO FOOTAGE.

You have to at LEAST admit that YOU would NEVER send any daughter of your own there without your supervision. I would hope not, anyway.

verdict

From Guttmacher's own website:
"The Guttmacher Institute was founded in 1968 as the Center for Family Planning Program Development."
"The Center was originally housed within the corporate structure of Planned Parenthood Federation of America (PPFA)."

Can YOU say "conflict of interest?"
If I could find some newspaper reports about this epidemic of back alley abortions, I could take it seriously. I am not, however, ready to base my views on the claims of the Guttmacher Institute, which is a "semi-autonomous division of the Planned Parenthood Federation of America."

Again, tho..it wouldn't matter even IF it were true. That was the 50's and 60's. The social scene is different now. Things are more advanced.
More and more younger people are being educated about what really goes on with abortion and are joining the Pro-Life movement. (The cover-ups, the medical misinformation about the procedure itself as well as the damage it can do to the mother in the short and long term..they are learning about this).

verdict

@Reese I feel like you don't really understand all that a "crackdown" would entail. Perhaps that is why you seem so overwhelmed and seem to feel that there is no hope of bringing back personal responsibility and sound family planning.
You almost sound opposed to it, tho. This confuses me since, at this point, I would think most would agree that a crackdown is needed if Planned Parenthood's "publicly stated goal" is ever to become a realistic goal for America again.

verdict

Consider the following before you decide if you would EVER send YOUR daughter (or any family member, for that matter) to a Planned Parenthood facility.

"Live Action Films" conducts a slew of undercover video camera operations at Planned Parenthood facilities across the country. They have exposed a number of things about Planned Parenthood that should clench the fist of any parent who has a daughter.
Undercover video footage of things that PP employees are involved in, that they support (aid, abet, enable), and have covered up..even things which they coerce kids into doing and things they coerce kids into keeping secret from their parents.
Live Action Films YouTube channel is at http://www.youtube.com/user/Live...

The above link goes to a table of contents (scroll down below the video screen) which categorizes their video uploads of their undercover camera ops into video playlists.
I recommend ALL of the playlists, but especially:
() "Mona Lisa Project" (videos including PP employee cover-up of pedophilia and other sex abuse)
() "Child Sex Trafficking Support Investigation" (self-explanatory)
() "Rose Acuna Project" (videos investigating PP medical misinformation)
() "Sex-Selection Abortion Investigation" (videos of PP employees encouraging abortion due to unwanted gender of the child)
() "Race Based Donations Investigation" (PP will target a specific race for your abortion donation funds to be used on, if you so desire)