27°UPDATE: Florida minister cancels plans for 9/11 Quran burn
Sep 09
2010
UPDATE:
The minister of a Florida church said he has canceled plans to burn copies of the Quran because the leader of a much-opposed plan to build an Islamic Center near ground zero has agreed to move its location.
However, the imam and developer behind the plan to build the center are denying reports that there is a deal to move the facility.
Imam Feisal Abdul Rauf issued a statement through his publicist saying there had been no negotiations of the sort.
Manhattan real estate developer Sharif El-Gamal also denied that any talks had taken place.
He said the center would go forward as planned.
ORIGINAL STORY:
A top general, the secretary of state, the White House and political and religious leaders from around the world have decried a plan by the leader of a small Florida church to burn copies of Islam's holiest text to mark the 9/11 attacks. The Rev. Terry Jones is not backing down.
Despite the mounting pressure to call off Saturday's bonfire, Jones said at a Wednesday news conference that he also has received much encouragement, with supporters mailing copies of the Quran to his Dove Outreach Center of about 50 followers. The plan comes as an emotional debate continues over a proposed Islamic center near the ground zero site of the 2001 terrorist attacks in New York.
''As of right now, we are not convinced that backing down is the right thing,'' said Jones, 58, who took no questions.
Jones was flanked by an armed escort and said he has received more than 100 death threats since announcing in July that he would stage ''International Burn-a-Quran Day.'' Muslims consider the Quran the word of God and insist it be treated with the utmost respect.
The book, according to Jones, is evil because it espouses something other than biblical truth and incites radical, violent behavior among Muslims.
Fearing the burning could spark anti-American violence, the State Department ordered U.S. embassies around the world to assess their security. The posts are to warn American citizens in countries where protests may occur.
The move came a day after Gen. David Petraeus, the top U.S. and NATO commander in Afghanistan, e-mailed The Associated Press to say the burning would endanger troops and that ''images of the burning of a Quran would undoubtedly be used by extremists in Afghanistan — and around the world — to inflame public opinion and incite violence.''
Petraeus spoke Wednesday with Afghan President Karzai about the matter, according to a military spokesman Col. Erik Gunhus.
''They both agreed that burning of a Quran would undermine our effort in Afghanistan, jeopardize the safety of coalition troopers and civilians,'' Gunhus said, and would ''create problems for our Afghan partners ... as it likely would be Afghan police and soldiers who would have to deal with any large demonstrations.''
Secretary of State Hillary Rodham Clinton said that the pastor's plans were outrageous, and along with Defense Secretary Robert Gates, urged Jones to cancel the event.
''It is regrettable that a pastor in Gainesville, Florida, with a church of no more than 50 people can make this outrageous and distrustful, disgraceful plan and get the world's attention, but that's the world we live in right now,'' Clinton said in remarks to the Council on Foreign Relations.
Not just the Democratic administration has weighed in. Ex-Alaska governor and former Republican candidate for vice president Sarah Palin said in a Facebook post that though people have the constitutional right to burn the Quran if they choose, doing so would be an ''insensitive and an unnecessary provocation — much like building a mosque at ground zero.''
''I would hope that Pastor Terry Jones and his supporters will consider the ramifications of their planned book-burning event,'' she wrote. ''It will feed the fire of caustic rhetoric and appear as nothing more than mean-spirited religious intolerance. Don't feed that fire.''
Conservative radio and television host Glenn Beck wrote in an Internet blog that burning the Quran is like burning the flag or the Bible — something people can do in the United States, but shouldn't. Legal experts have said the burning would likely be protected by the First Amendment's right to free speech.
''Our good Muslim friends and neighbors will be saddened,'' Beck wrote. ''It makes the battle that they face inside their own communities even harder.''
Pakistan's ambassador to the United States, Husain Haqqani, called on Beck to denounce the plan that he said would set off a massive reaction in parts of the Muslim world.
In Afghanistan, the plan provoked outrage.
''It is the duty of Muslims to react,'' said Mohammad Mukhtar, a cleric and candidate for the Afghan parliament in the Sept. 18 election. ''When their holy book Quran gets burned in public, then there is nothing left. If this happens, I think the first and most important reaction will be that wherever Americans are seen, they will be killed. No matter where they will be in the world they will be killed.''
Muslims consider the Quran along with any printed material containing its verses or the name of Allah or the Prophet Muhammad to be sacred. Any intentional damage or show of disrespect Quran is deeply offensive.
Jones' Dove Outreach Center is independent of any denomination. It follows the Pentecostal tradition, which teaches that the Holy Spirit can manifest itself in the modern day. Pentecostals often view themselves as engaged in spiritual warfare against satanic forces.
The Vatican also denounced the protest and a religious watchdog group, Military Religious Freedom Foundation, said it would send a copy of the Quran to the Afghan National Army for every one that might be burned.
Actress Angelina Jolie, in her capacity as a goodwill ambassador for the U.N.'s refugee agency, condemned the protest during a trip to Pakistan to raise awareness about the floods in the largely Muslim country.
Jones' neighbors in Gainesville, a city of 125,000 anchored by the sprawling University of Florida campus, also have said they disapprove. At least two dozen Christian churches, Jewish temples and Muslim organizations in the city have mobilized to plan inclusive events — some will read from the Quran at their own weekend services. A student group is organizing a protest across the street from the church on Saturday.
And Gov. Charlie Crist, who is running as an independent candidate for U.S. Senate, said he'd be closely monitoring what happens to try to ensure safety.
''In addition to being offensive, the Gainesville protest puts at risk those brave Americans who are fighting abroad for the freedoms and values that we believe in as Americans,'' Crist said in a statement.
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01:36 PM
kURT says
Bailey hope you are a better cop than you are about knowing your history.
Can tell you never served in my Corps get your facts right, or I'll ticket you.
The Marines started before Tripoli.
02:14 PM
6079 Smith W says
The one observation I did make was that they were riding in cars, they were not walking. I figured that it was for their own protection just in case things turned ugly which to my knowledge they never did.
01:44 PM
Salvatore says
How about if the preacher got a bunch of posters of Bin Laden and burned those instead? This would be a good idea to see who the radical muslims are. I like the idea of toilet paper with Bin Laden's image on every sheet.
12:37 PM
dannyraymilligan says
Okay, without entering into personal attacks, let me try to bring some fresh air to this discussion.
To begin with, people need to have respect and dignity in regards to other religions. It does not matter that the muslims do not respect our religious beliefs in their own countries, and murder all non-islamists (not just jews and christians... if you're not muslim, you're dead meat.) The United States was founded on freedom of religion, freedom of expression, and freedom of speech. With these freedoms, however, comes responsibility. That responsibility requires us to HONOR one another's differing beliefs and not disrespect them. The "pastor" in Florida is just as wrong for wishing to destroy the Q'uran as is the "Imam" who wishes to raise the Mosque on ground zero and rub our nation's nose in the activities of our enemies.
As far as the Pastor's belief patterns, they are along the same lines as the Radical Muslims who murder and kill in the name of their "god" Allah. In each case, the individual picks out the parts of his "holy document" that he wishes to follow, and ignores the rest. This "pastor" who throws around the name of Jesus Christ so casually does not stop to consider that Jesus would never have performed the actions he is espousing. Like most Christians in this modern era, the man's faith is not founded upon the teachings and ministry of Christ, Himself, but upon the muddy doctrines introduced by the apostle Paul, and cemented as Canon by the council of Nicea. When one compares the teachings of Paul to those of Christ, you will see that at many times, what Paul says is actually in direct opposition to Christ. Yet Paul never died upon a cross for you, did he?
By ignoring what Christ taught, and re-interpreting it through the teachings of Paul, the Christian Church over the centuries has never born ANY resemblance whatsoever to that of the first century, before Paul's teachings infiltrated the Church. When Christ said the Law (meaning the Ten Commandments) would stand as long as the earth stood, Paul laid that aside by saying "We are not under the Law, we are under Grace." Grace is a principal that Christ never once mentioned. It was invented by Paul, and negates Christ's teaching that we MUST REPENT AND TURN FROM OUR SINS. With the advent of Paul, we received such heresies as the multitude of dispensations that are promulgated in the Roman Catholic and Orthodox Churches. The heresy of "Once Saved, Always Saved" comes directly from Paul, not Christ. If you read Matthew, Chapter 7, you will see that Jesus himself talked about "Christians" being rejected by Him, even though they claimed His name and taught by it.
If one were to remove every single book of the bible, and went only by what Christ taught, you would have the faith of the Disciples, the men whom He sent out into the world to spread the Good News. That Good News was corrupted by Paul, who turned a relationship with God into Religion.
The same thing exists in Islam, and all the other faiths on this planet. They are merely a religion, with each member interpreting it and rewriting it to suit themselves, including the Christian Church, both Catholic and Protestant. Christians have murdered BILLIONS over the centuries in the name of a God that Paul invented, yet they decry Muslims for doing the same in the name of a god that Mohammed invented. Regardless of what you believe, or what book you read it out of, if it does not align with the DIRECT words and intent of what Jesus Christ taught, it fails.
There is a ray of Sunshine in all this. His return is imminent. Those who belong to Him will be saved, those who do not, will be resurrected with eternal bodies and then thrown into a lake of lava that they cannot even DIE to escape from. The road to salvation is strait and narrow, and few will ever find it, but the way to destruction is broad and easy, and most will travel down it. How few is "few"? How many is "most"? Which group are you in? If you don't BELONG to Jesus Christ, if what HE says does not come before all others to you... buy some flame resistant pajamas, you're done, be you Christian, Jew, Muslim, Buddhist, Hindu, Atheist, Agnostic, whatever. You're done.
-Danny Milligan
10:52 PM
brutus smith says
Actually a bunch Stone Age right wingnuts wrote the Old Testament. And they used God's name to justify their actions. That's why he had to send Jesus down and correct the Right wingnuts and put out the New Testament. There was much resistance from the right wingnuts and Jesus had to drag them kicking and screaming out of the Stone Age. Today's right wingnuts would have no problem fitting in with Stone Age right wingnuts.
04:17 PM
6079 Smith W says
04:06 PM
The General says
Interesting perspective Bailey, well said...
03:20 PM
Bailey says
brutus,
I find it strange that you point fingers at Christianity concerning slavery when it was the liberal Democrats that paid Jewish merchants (yes, almost all ship registries were of Jewish decent) to go over to Africa and use the Muslims to steal familes for them.
It was also the Southern Democrats who CLAIMED to be such great Christians who raped, beat, humiliated and tortured these people to the edge of death!
And you come here throwing stones?
Martin Luther King, a REPUBLICAN, stated that he could NEVER vote for a Demcrate which founded slavery in this country, enforced it with a whip, and continued to enslave Blacks by removing their pride with federal hand outs instead of hand ups.
Whats said is that after the Blacks were free, we were shunned by all due to cultural differences, which I can understand because those Democrats never taught the slaves anything, and when they became 'free' they couldn't speak, read, write, add, subtract, they were very ignorant, and the term "DUMB NIG*r" took hold.
So, your post is insulting Brutus because it is YOUR party that made our people what we are today as a whole. The DEMOCRATS paid people to steal our past relatives, beat them, held them down, and now you wish to blame others. Amazing that you have no shame.
02:49 PM
Bailey says
Chung
First, I DO agree with you concerning todays Lawyers (that was actually very funny~!) But in friendly seriousness, you are mistaken concerning Lot. No one said that he was innocent, especially those who have been blessed to study the Bible for some time. Lot was innocent of the crime, no less than you or I am of murder or adultery; Matthew 5 starting with verse 17.
Lot was guilty of many things, but he was not the one to take advantage of them, it was the daughters choice. He is being charged with the terrible upraising of his family because he turned from the Lord. Even his wife was condemned due to his lack of leadership. Lot offended his uncle Abraham and wanted the good looking and worldly possessions and party/entertainment that Sodom provided, and Lot basically thumbed his nose at God. The ONLY reason that Lot was spared from the fires of hell that came down upon the city was because of God's love for his faithfull servant, Abraham and Lot was his nephew. This is a representation of the Heavenly Father sparing US because of His love for His Son Jesus Christ.
Lot will be judged because he failed to raise his children to fear the Lord. I believe scripture supports the judgement of parents who raise children to be criminals and ungodly citizens. God WILL say to those parents, "SEE WHAT YOUR CHILDREN HAVE BECOME! THIS IS BECAUSE OF YOU not raising them right! YOUR just as guilty as the children who commited the crime!" "Raise up a child in the way that he should go and he will not depart from it". We can only conclude then that in most cases those who are in crime usually are apples that fell near the tree
While discussing Lot, a much more interesting subject would be concerning the hyperstatic union that presented in Genesis 18 when Abraham is told about Sodoms fate of being send to an eternal hell.
12:51 PM
goofus says
Bailey, thanks for the compliment and I find your takes very interesting. I'm a good presbyterian I've been to church once in three years and that was for my father's funeral. I must confess that I have never read the bible so I enjoy your knowledge of it. Have you ever noticed how Chung Lee when trying to impune or demean a blogger, always casts an aspersion that the blogger is a homosexual. I thought liberals were in favor of gay rights. Is Chung a homophobe or ancient Chinese Secret! If Brutus was told by a conservative that the sky is blue, he would spend hours perusing all the netroot web sites trying to prove the sky is pink. Frankly Bailey, they amuse me.12:36 PM
brutus smith says
Are you denying what the bible says or just being goofus?
12:12 PM
goofus says
Wow I really didn't know of those two websites: KillingGod.com and BiblePorn.com. May I recommend a few,Religion of Peace.com,Atlas Shrugs.com,and Jihad Watch.com.
11:41 AM
brutus smith says
The God of the Bible also allows slavery, including selling your own daughter as a sex slave (Exodus 21:1-11), child abuse (Judges 11:29-40 and Isaiah 13:16), and bashing babies against rocks (Hosea 13:16 & Psalms 137:9).
Now aren't you glad we all don't follow the bible word for word? Just like all Muslims didn't take flying lessons.
11:36 AM
brutus smith says
It always amazes me how many times this God orders the killing of innocent people even after the Ten Commandments said “Thou shall not kill”. For example, God kills 70,000 innocent people because David ordered a census of the people (1 Chronicles 21). God also orders the destruction of 60 cities so that the Israelites can live there. He orders the killing of all the men, women, and children of each city, and the looting of all of value (Deuteronomy 3). He orders another attack and the killing of “all the living creatures of the city: men and women, young, and old, as well as oxen sheep, and asses” (Joshua 6). In Judges 21, He orders the murder of all the people of Jabesh-gilead, except for the virgin girls who were taken to be forcibly raped and married. When they wanted more virgins, God told them to hide alongside the road and when they saw a girl they liked, kidnap her and forcibly rape her and make her your wife! Just about every other page in the Old Testament has God killing somebody! In 2 Kings 10:18-27, God orders the murder of all the worshipers of a different god in their very own church! In total God kills 371,186 people directly and orders another 1,862,265 people murdered.
11:28 AM
Chung Lee says
Chung Lee cannot believe some of the nonsense that Bailey will say. Lot should not be held accountable because his daughters seduced him? Too funny. Chung Lee don't know many lawyers that would go to court with that one. It sure no work when guys on Catch a Predator get caught and claim that it was girl fault. As a man child and son of Ham, Chung Lee can understand why you have such limited cognitive skills so that you cannot see the blatant weekness of your pseudo argument. Pretty interesting that Lot is not responsible because of the drink and temptation and it pretty obvious that women are given a lesser role. According to this story they were at fault! Blame the woman for providing the temptation. Bailey did you read the part where Lot was going to give his daughters to an angry mob? He didn't want to give up the men angels and wanted to give the mob something of lesser value..... his daughters. Sounds a lot like the type of garbage that you mock the muslims for.
11:26 AM
brutus smith says
winnie, you have to quit trying to separate the New Testament from the old. Both came from the same God. So stop the nonsense already.
10:57 AM
6079 Smith W says
@ bs:
Scott Peterson a "Christian"?
Where in the NT did Jesus say that husbands should abuse or kill one's wife and children?
In the Quran does Allah tell his followers to kill unbelievers?
So Obie sat in Rev. Wright's hate filled church for twenty years and he's got a problem with Rev. Jones burning a few books?
If Islam is the "religion of peace," does this mean that the 9-11 highjackers were not Muslims? How many millions of Muslims worldwide agree with their acts of terrorism?
How many Christians agree with Scott Peterson killing his wife? Would Jesus have condoned his actions?
10:32 AM
brutus smith says
Some white Christian men abuse their wives and kids. Some even strangle and drown their pregnant wives. (Scott Peterson). So should we say all Christian white males do this?
10:03 AM
Bailey says
Chung Lee, what happened to your racist accent?
YOU CAN'T EVEN get the facts straight, Lot didn't TAKE his daughters, THEY SEDUCED HIM by getting him drunk! They just witnessed the biggest burning witnessed by mankind, they indicated that they believed there were no other men left to keep the family going, so they got their father drunk.
Knowing these facts makes you out to be the fool, not the 'Christians".
Oh, and another thing you fake mocking Asian, Lot and his daughters were not Christians, they were Jews. Can't you get anything right?
Closing, if I didn't believe God, I would agree with you that you are NOT an image of Him. Some day you will pay dearly for your blasphemy, you should be glad I'm a Christian and not a Muslim, your penalty would be death.
Goofus, change your name, your one of the intelligent ones who post here, why compete with the likes of Chung........
09:51 AM
The General says
Chung Lee.
"So "general" does christianity shoulder the blame for the domestic terrorism of bombing abortion clinics and the killing of doctors?"
Yes it actually should to some degree, just as Muslims should for lets see.....stoning women, lashing women, beheadings, oh and lets not forget setting people alive on fire in ditches as well, oh and well how about hmmm detonating explosive charges in crowded streets.
"Funny that you religious zealots have a problem with building a community center 2 blocks from ground zero but have no problem with a strip club across the street from ground zero."
When strippers start flying planes into buildings, then I'll have a problem with it
A community center 2 blocks from ground zero is not a mosque at ground zero.
You are absoluetly right, let me re-phrase the question.... Just because a person can build a mosque near ground zero....should they
09:28 AM
Chung Lee says
Clearly the "general" does not have a firm grasp on statistics. 19 people do not represent the religion of 1.6 billion. So "general" does christianity shoulder the blame for the domestic terrorism of bombing abortion clinics and the killing of doctors? Funny that you religious zealots have a problem with building a community center 2 blocks from ground zero but have no problem with a strip club across the street from ground zero. There is a word for that and it is Bigotry! A community center 2 blocks from ground zero is not a mosque at ground zero. Chung Lee wonders why the rabid right has to exaggerate? Is it because they know they have a week argument?
09:16 AM
The General says
Chung Lee says..."One would think that the one that is building a community center is the one spreading the love"
The General says, Chung Lees' so called "love spreaders" flew two planes into a couple of buildings killing thousands.... is that spreading the love too?
Chung Lee says..." Just because a person can sit in the mall and make fun of fat people....... should they?"
General says....Just because a person can build a mosque at ground zero...should they?
08:38 AM
6079 Smith W says
Yes there is a difference between “rights” and “poor taste” and the govt. needs to know its boundaries.
08:11 AM
meowmix says
First of all--I wish people could "rate" comments posted because if so, I would thumbs up Brutus, Chung and especially Stormy.
The so-called "mosque" that is to be built is a COMMUNITY CENTER- something that can be used and enjoyed by any race or religion. It will have a mosque within it. Don't you haters realize that muslims were also killed on 9/11?
I just wonder if you self-proclaimed "good" christians could possibly think that this pastor could be satan disguised and is causing this sensation to be the causitive factor in more deaths? How can you support this evil-being knowing that it could/will result in the deaths of more soldiers?
Of course we have the right to burn the flag, the bible, the torah, the koran if we so desire. We also have the to yell "fire" in a crowded theater---but, the question is, does that make it right to do so?
07:38 AM
Chung Lee says
You must really stop with your messiah act. Nowhere does it say "Go and sin no more". Do you think you are God? Chung Lee already know answer to that question. Chung Lee was nice and only mention that Lot only got his daugthers pregnant but Chung Lee did not mention that Lot was willing to give up his daughters to a crowd of men for them to "do as they wish". Interesting that God used fire to destroy all in that whole city; Chung Lee is glad that Chung Lee was not made in God's image!
07:16 AM
6079 Smith W says
@ CL:
Lot? You've never read the Bible have you?
Let me help you:
http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Genesis+19&version=NIV
Read Verses 30-38.
Go and sin no more.
05:28 AM
Mime Bloggling says
Better than burning the Koran...simply refute it.
And for the record "Pastor Ron" is not a pastor of any kind..
11:34 PM
stormy says
Okay, here is the latest from Nightline. Having learned that he has no deal with the Imam in NYC, Jones now maintains that his plans are on-hold, not canceled. He may still go ahead with his bonfire.
One thing that's really bothering me is how much misinformation some of you are spreading. When Constantinople fell, St. Sofia's church was not torn down. It was turned into a mosque, but the structure itself was left intact, and remains so to this day. Likewise, the al-Aqsa mosque was not built to desecrate the Temple Mount. The Temple was destroyed centuries earlier, by the Romans. A church was later built there. It too was turned into a mosque, but otherwise left intact, when Saladin took Jerusalem back from the Crusaders. Is it really so surprising that, when Muslims took over a city, they recycled the previous owners' places of worship into their places of worship?
And contrary to what Bailey posted, Mohammed never said to kill "people of the book." He said to RESPECT them. All of that stuff about killing "infidels" referred to Pagans, not Christians and Jews, who were originally exempt from jihads and forced conversions. Mohammed regarded "people of the book" (anyone who worshipped the God of Abraham) as brothers. Later Muslim leaders didn't fully honor these teachings, but things didn't REALLY get ugly between Christianity and Islam until the Crusades. Likewise, the blood feud between Islam and Judaism didn't really get rolling until the modern state of Israel was formed, and the Palestinian Muslims were driven from lands they had lived on for centuries by a bunch of Europeans.
Look, I have no more love in my heart for militant, radical Islam than any of you do; then again, I have little use for hard-line fundamentalists of ANY faith. All I'm saying is that many of you seem all too ready to condemn every member of a faith you know almost nothing about.
Hey, here's an idea: before you set fire to a Quran, try reading it first.
08:43 PM
goofus says
Just in, Donald Trump has offered the developer 25% more money for the mosque building than the Imam. Way to go Donald, might have to buy a condo in one of your towers in Panama. At least I'd be closer to the cigar makers.
08:02 PM
goofus says
I see our resident biblical porn scholar Chung Lee has spoken. One snipit in a huge tome and we as christians are to bow down to the porn scholar. I thought the bible was basically a history book and wierdos have been around for ions.
07:47 PM
Taxpayer says
Hey 5079 Smith W, nice new profile pic. It is great!
OK, so he cancels his burning event. He has received pressure from both political parties and from political leaders. He has received praise and threats. So this is the guy I want to lead me in the path to righteousness? No wonder he only has 20 sheep in his flock. Now he is making up a LIE to cancel his burning. Fine with me. But, my concern will be all the copycat book burners that will do it anyway on 11 September. If you don't think there are other nutbags out there who are going to do the exact same thing, you are totally blind. All these people have to do who support this religious "leader" is find a few copies of the Koran and burn them, then video tape it and place it on twitter or any other networking site. He planted the idea and now others will do it for him. Maybe he is a genius.
07:39 PM
goofus says
Media & Culture
Symbolizing Victory, Islamic Conquerors Erect Mosques Over Sacred Sites
August 13th, 2010 by Thomas More Law Center
Print This Article · SHARETHIS.addEntry({ title: "Symbolizing Victory, Islamic Conquerors Erect Mosques Over Sacred Sites", url: "http://catholicexchange.com/2010/08/13/133310/" });ShareThis
Throughout history, Muslim conquerors have demonstrated their hatred and disdain for all other religions by purposefully erecting mosques over some of the most sacred and hallowed places of Judaic and Christian worship.
The al Aqsa Mosque in Jerusalem is built on top of one of the holiest sites in Judaism, the Temple Mount. The former St. Sophia’s Basilica, once the world’s largest cathedral and orthodox patriarchal basilica, was torn down and replaced with the principal mosque of Istanbul. The Cordoba mosque in Spain was a former Christian cathedral. Muslims have engaged in this practice for centuries, symbolizing their victories over the infidels.
Today, in New York City, Muslim leaders are plotting to build a mega-mosque near the site of the 9/11 attack on the World Trade Center, where over three thousand Americans were callously murdered by Islamic jihadists. The site of the Twin Towers has become the most hallowed ground in United States history since Pearl Harbor.
07:32 PM
Chung Lee says
So is the Bible a training manual for pedophiles? Read the story of Lot. He take his daughters to live in cave and then have baby with both. Clearly your depth of thought indicates similar origin.
07:18 PM
goofus says
Chung Lee, sorry but I believe the Koran is not a book but a training manual for terrorists.
06:36 PM
goofus says
Jonestown's formation and operation
Jones had first started building Jonestown in 1974 as a means to create both a "socialist paradise" and a "sanctuary" from the media scrutiny which had started in 1972.[57] Regarding the former goal, Jones purported to establish Jonestown as a benevolent model communist community stating, "I believe we’re the purest communists there are."[58] In that regard, like the restrictive emigration policies of the then Soviet Union, Cuba, North Korea and other communist republics, Jones did not permit members to leave Jonestown.[59]
Religious scholar Mary McCormick Maaga argues that Jones' authority waned after he moved to the isolated commune, because he was not needed for recruitment and he could not hide his drug addiction from rank and file members.[60] In spite of the allegations prior to Jones' departure to Jonestown, the leader was still respected by some for setting up a racially mixed church which helped the disadvantaged; 68 percent of Jonestown's residents were black.[61]
05:49 PM
Bailey says
Isn't Islam a religion of PEACE? Why arre we so concerned about burning a piece of paper with ink on it. Why would a religion of PEACE murder people for burning a book?
Lets see, Muslims believe Jesus Christ was a prophet, and Jesus said to TURN THE OTHER CHEEK . But Mohamid says to KILL the followers of the 'book' meaning the bible. How can one prophet say one thing and another say just the opposite? How come WE are to bend to everything concerning Islam but Islam bends to NOTHING or NOBODY?
Did you know that the USA's first international war was with Muslims in Tripoli, thus we have the US Marine song. The muslims were pirating our ships and selling back to us our Navy men. FINALLY we said ENOUGH and started a special force called the Marines, and when they went over to kick some butt the cowards immediatly surrendered and gave back our sailors, ships and goods. NOTHING has changed since then, Muslims only know ONE THING and that is force. Acording to the Bible, their belief system is considered to be demonic, and is NOT a religion of peace.
heres the REAL Islam gentleislam.com/how_gentle_is_islam.htm
And last week was the 6th anniversary where Muslims murdered 334 people in a school, with 186 of them being children. WARNING, the videos here are very disturbing, so much that I'm pretty sure the S.R will remove this since they are so politically correct!
www.youtube.com/watch
04:26 PM
stormy says
Again, I fully support the right of law-abiding American Muslims to build a community center on private property, even if it includes prayer facilities, and even though it is near the WTC site. When we start making exceptions to the Bill of Rights, our liberty is done for. To those who say build it somewhere else, I say...why? The current site is in a Muslim neighborhood. For crying out loud, it wouldn't see much use in Little Italy, now would it?
For the same reason, I support the right of this redneck, fundamentalist IDIOT to burn the Quran. However, I sincerely hope the Good Lord sends a bolt of lightning to strike him dead before he can strike a match. WHAT A BOUCHEDAG!!!!
Pastor Ron, do you really believe this krap, or are you just stirring things up? I find it hard to believe that any member of the Christian clergy could be as full of hatred as you apparently are. You remind me of the moron who addressed the first 9/11 memorial service in Norwalk in '02. He said "the god of Islam is not the God of this country" (just before I turned and stood with my back to him until his part was finished).
Here's a news flash: their God, our God; SAME GOD!!!! The first Muslims were Arabs, who believed themselves to be descended from Abraham, through the son he had with his wife's handmaid. They worship the God of Abraham, or as Christians call Him, God the Father (of Jesus). "Yahweh" and "Allah" are simply two different pronunciations of the same name.
Don't bother denouncing me as a Satanist. I'm not a very active Christian, and yes, I'm a sinner, but I'll see Heaven before you do, if you don't stop twisting the Lord's message.
Y'know, agreeing with Brutus and Chung could drive me to drink...MORE! But they're right, and if people don't stand up to fundamentalist nut-jobs like Terry Jones, our nation will soon be kaput!
04:02 PM
dorothy gale says
I think the root of this problem is the MEDIA giving this nut case what he wants --- attention! The media should never have reported it and blown it all out of proportion. The "reverend" said he MIGHT reconsider if a top-level government official talks to him. The guy obviously wants attention and he doesn't care what happens to American troops as a result of his stupidity.
I just heard on TV that the so-called reverend called the whole thing off! More in a few moments, I hope.
03:22 PM
crazymom says
I look at both events as ridiculous media fueled events. Common sense dictates the mosque should be built somewhere else out of respect for the country and the lost lives. The muslim community is perpetuating the bigotry they are trying to avoid. That being said, if the media wouldn't have given pastor jones the attention he apparently craves and just brushed it off as some lunatic, I guarantee it would not be an issue.
02:39 PM
Outside lookin in says
I am against the Mosque being built on ground zero and I am against the Pastor burning the Koran. You either have to be against both because you feel that they are morally wrong. Or you have to be for both because of Constitutional reasons. Obama is for the Mosque being built and against the Christian burning the books..............THAT'S BECAUSE OBAMA IS A MUSLUM. You cannot be for one and not the other.
01:18 PM
kURT says
Taxpayer, & Pastor Ron; you guys could contact Jones & have a family reunion.
01:03 PM
crazymom says
Can't help but wonder if Jones is just doing this for his 15 min. of fame. Obviously he knew it would cause a media frenzy and build on the anti muslim hate already festering in this country.
12:46 PM
Taxpayer says
Things are going to be HOPPING on 11 September. You have a relgious leader using his perfectly legal Constitutional right to burn a few books. They are just paper and bindings manufactured by a publisher. That is ALL. What about all the Holy Bibles that have been burnt by the MILLIONS? And how many countries have burned them? How many burned in this nation? How many United States flags? Before you BLAME one man for doing one thing, you might look at yourselves. I personally do not think the burning of books will accomplish squat. It is all about symbolism. So burning paper is going to enrage the muslim world? So we are to bow down to the THREATS from the muslim world once again? What happened to 0bama and all his rhetoric about "building bridges" with his buddies? And there is going to be a huge protest at the proposed mosque. I guess all those people are racist right? Well here is a tip for you losers. The people at this protest will involve everyone from every walk and belief in life. They are rallying together for a just cause. So watch the news and see for yourselves. If you are all scared of islam, then don't watch and cower in your homes. I will be watching Fox News for the TRUTH and see for myself. To be quite frank, who cares what muslims think? They could care less about us and expect all of us to obey or else? Ha! Ha!
12:13 PM
brutus smith says
Background of the Peoples Temple:
This was a Christian destructive, doomsday cult founded and led by James Warren Jones (1931-1978). Jim Jones held degrees from Indiana University and Butler University. He was not a Fundamentalist pastor as many reports in the media and the anti-cult movement claim. He belonged to a mainline Christian denomination, having been ordained in the Christian Church/Disciples of Christ.
12:11 PM
Chung Lee says
What do you have to say about that Pastor Ron?
12:10 PM
Chung Lee says
Goofus you leave no doubt that you are confused. Just curious is buring books representative of a tolerant and peaceful religion?
12:03 PM
goofus says
I'm confused. If we burn the koran it will incite violence. The Imam that wants to build the mosque near ground zero said if we don't let him build it, it will incite violence. I thought it was supposed to be a religion of peace? I wonder if Brutus Smith knows that Jim Jones at Jonestown was an aetheist trying to use the church to encourage aetheism.11:16 AM
Sam says
pastor Ron please don't pray for me, your message goes in the wrong direction.
Just for you,
Jesus Christ: A Prophet of Islam
11:03 AM
Pastor Ron says
This town is full of ungodly sinners. The Lord Jesus may one day decide to destroy this vile town.
11:00 AM
Pastor Ron says
Sam you are clearly a terrorist sympathizer, I will pray for your soul.